Nature Swap [Talonflame unbanned!]

[Wendig0]

Regigigas @ Leftovers
Ability: Slow Start
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nature Power
- Earth Power
- Thunderbolt
- Filler

110/80/110/160/110/100

That's Tri-Attack coming from 160 SpA. Slow Start doesn't reduce special attack, so you can fire away any time.

Can't learn try-attack, extremely limited move pool, but still decent.
I think there are much better options, such as volcanion which also has bulk

Also, I feel that Dance could be powerful, I just don't know how to approach it (physical or special) as its best kind-of mixed

 

[ryan]

Nature Power turns into Tri Attack. It's probably still garbage though.

 

[Anna says hi]

Drampas☼Grandpa:-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Pure Power Medicham Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Salamence: 304-360 (77.3 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Anna says hi: holy shit
Anna says hi: that's astounding
Anna says hi: and mence outspeeds and roosts
Drampas☼Grandpa: -1 252+ Atk Choice Band Pure Power Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Salamence: 97-115 (24.6 - 29.2%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
Quziel: tbh, chansey/mence sounds like a terrifying stall core
Anna says hi: mence counters Medicham even if it switches into banded ice punch

Mence is currently really amazing on defensive and offensive teams as a very physically bulky defogger that retains good speed and offensive presence even with full defensive EV's. This just makes it even better.

edit: you need a small amount of speed investment to outrun neutral nature medicham, but you still live ice punch anyway

 

[TheClassyStaraptor]

Avalugg: 95/46/184/44/117/28

I wanted to do one for Avalugg, seeing as it's one of my fav Gen 6 mons. While he's still not that good due to his shallow moveset, his god awful defensive typing and now his offensive presence lowered to 0, its excellent 95/184/117 defenses will allow him to take a hit from almost nearly anything and allow him to be a somewhat decent utility mon.

Cloyster: Either 50/180/95/85/45/70 or 50/95/70/85/45/180

With 180 attack and Shell Smash, safe to say that nearly nothing survives a hit from him. Or alternatively, if we give him a high base speed, he doesnt have to worry about getting outsped by anyone and safetly use Shell Smash to power itself up.

Mega Gardevoir: 68/135/65/165/85/100

With a base stat of 135, Gardevoir can run attacks like Body Slam, Return, Double Edge, All Elemental Punches (Fire being a blessing) and Shadow Sneak, giving M-Gardevoir an opportunity to run a mixed set that has priority. What more to ask?


I really like the idea of this meta and I can't wait to give it a try :D

Why give mega gardevoir 135 attack, when you can give it 135 speed, allowing it to wallbreak with hyper voice, psyshock, and focus blast

 

[Quicksilverz]

Requesting this meta be renamed to "Knock Off Chansey's Eviolite".

 

[Doctor_DraX]

posting mons

Hide

Landorus-Therian @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Bold Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off

I just swapped Lando's insane attack with it's defense to make it a better physical tank it's worked out pretty well with Rocky Helmet + other priority damage + toxic from Chansey but I've only played 6 games with it, I think it's still pretty cool though. EQ is obvious stab, U-turn because momentum is super important with all the set up garbage running around, and knock off is for anything named Chansey and some other stuff that becomes useless when they lose an item.

Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Lax Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Bomb
- Toxic Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Scald

I tried to use this as an Azu switchin and it works pretty well (Def > SpD), Knock Off is still annoying, but hey it even works as a good Keldeo switchin. It works less well as a Cloyster switchin.

Crawdaunt @ Life Orb
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Crabhammer
- Knock Off
- Aqua Jet

Loses to physical Keldeo but 90 Spe Crawdaunt is crazy. This thing is a monster without its speed but now it can just devour things in its path

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 Atk
Lonely Nature
- Swords Dance
- Power Whip
- Iron Head
- Bulldoze

Wasn't sure how to finish this set because I don't want to do the messy defensive calcs but this hits HARD AS HELL, especially with bulky grounds/steels swapping stats bulldoze + power whip hits so much stuff super effectively (and of course water types), iron head hits the rest of the rock types like shuckle and annoying fairies like florges

Two Slowbro sets that are probably trash but putting them anyway

att over spa (Slowbro-Mega) @ Slowbronite
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Aqua Tail
- Drain Punch
- Zen Headbutt

att over def (Slowbro-Mega) @ Slowbronite
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Lonely Nature
- Belly Drum
- Aqua Tail
- Drain Punch
- Zen Headbutt

HELLO THE GAME IS OVER
Both beat Keldeo reliably well and the first one can probably take on cloyster and azu. If you pull off a BD you have to status this thing and that's it unless you're running some horsesh** set like special bisharp

Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
Ability: Guts
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Thunder Punch
- Ice Punch

Also I tried AV Conk switching defense with speed, it's really useful but the 45 base Defense is a no-no with Azu and stuff running around. Still a really good late game cleaner if big boys azu and cloyster are gone and stuff is weakened.

I've found that although TTar breaks cloyster sashes there's too much water and fighting, maybe a DDance set could be viable. There is a lot you can do with the stats, though.

also even though pyroar is trash you can use moxie now YAY

 

[ParadoxEngine]

Finally Ninjask having insane speed AND Speed Boost comes in handy (besides Baton Pass). I've been using this

Ninjask @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Brave Nature
- Protect
- U-turn
- Aerial Ace
- X-Scissor

I'll be the first one to admit it's not very good, but I'll be damned if it's not fun. Someone could probably improve on this if they really wanted.

 

[MasterChief123]

So yeah......

Aggron buddy. The power is real.

-------->70/110/50/60/60/180


Aggron @ Choice Band
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Head Smash
- Heavy Slam
- Superpower
- Ice Punch

Yeah basically maxing out at 478 atk and 504 speed. I guess relaxed could work with this set as well, because who really needs 504 speed....

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

People, please stop running physical Togekiss, it sucks! You have no Fairy STAB, and your strongest Flying STAB peaks at a mighty 60 base power. And thanks to Hustle, on everything not named Extreme Speed you've got at best 80 accuracy.

On the bright side, here's a set I've had good results with:

Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Flare Blitz
- Dragon Claw
- Roost

Now with 130 base Speed, you can crush defensive teams beneath your foot! Charizard X never used its special attack anyway, so it welcomes the extra speed. Flare Blitz is your main nuke, OHKOing anything not resisting it at +2. Dragon Claw is there for when you don't want recoil. Roost keeps Charizard healthy for longer. EVs maximise Speed and power.

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

After observing the meta for a while, and hearing the complaints of some people, nv and I decided to do the first suspect.

Suspect 1: Chansey

​

Rules
1. To determine if Chansey needs to be banned or not, we will decide it by voting. To vote, you must achieve top 20 in ladder, screenshot it and then post it here. Then make your decision to vote ban or no ban (please bold your vote) along with your reasoning (please don't just vote without reason).
2. Chansey will be banned if at least 60% majority the votes are ban votes at the end of the suspect.
3. The suspect will last 4 days at 5th of August 2016.
4. Please keep civil during the discussion.

 

[Elecktrochoko]

Dusknoir

Swapping Sp.Def to Speed. With LO set such as Shadow Sneak, Shadow Punch, EQ and Pain Split.

Bastiodon
Sp.Def ->Sp.ATK. Nice lead with Custap Berry set such as SR, Power Gem, Flash Cannon and many coverages (Flamethrower, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt)

Swellow
ATK ->Sp.ATK. Bam, you've a nice Ch.Specs set.

M-Audino
Def/Sp.Def ->Sp.ATK. Offensive presence on bulk pokémon should be cool. Either defensive or Offensive pivot with it.

Emboar
Sp.ATK ->Speed. Wallbreaker set is now good, or Stallbreaker.
Sp.ATK ->Def. Defensive set

Spiritomb
Sp.ATK ->Speed. Offensive support is all good.

Moltres
ATK ->Speed. LO set as its finest.

Durant
Sp.Def -> Speed for bulky set with Thunder Wave
Def ->ATK for sheer power

Mega-Metagross
Def ->Speed. All-Out Attacker set.



As for the Chansey's Suspect in NS, if you don't have a Pokémon with Knock Off, you're pretty much screwed. :p

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/natureswap-409630311
P.S.: I was just watching the battle, I'm not one of those.

 

[vegeta00007]

I love this om
U can try crazy stuff and have fun
I thought about this nice set
Seelix @custap berry |sturdy
Evs:252 hp/252 Atk/4 spD
Iv:0 spe
Nature :lonely
-SR
-gyro ball
-EQ
-dragon tail
He is my rock setter
Though steelix is not bulky as before,it has sturdy
If u do get knocked down to stury,i can use gyro ball with custap berry whih is essentially a +1 priority
Steelix with 548 Atk and 65 base speed
Im pretty sure it can 1hko or atleast 2hko a 230 base speed shuckle (didnt run damage calcs)

 

[Dr. Phd. BJ]

For Chansey suspect, I vote that we should ban chansey. It is incredibly simple as to why. It makes teambuilding incredibly hard. When kyurem-black outrage does 44%, and u take less than 40% from most superpowers, and u can't really get two hit koed by any special attack, there is an issue. Another reason is it stunts the Metagames growth in players. Imagine wanting to try out the tier, but ur teams can't break chansey. Some people aren't going to want to play the meta for that reason. It can also fit in to any play style. If ur running offense and u think, "I'm really weak to Mega-Camerupt and special Kyurem-black," ill just throw on chansey (that was an example). Obviously it can be beaten by stuff like stallbreaker Mew, mega sableye, etcetera, but it isn't fun for any player to play against unless ur using like 6 chansey answers. There are probably more reasons it should be banned, but I can't think rn.

 

[SmogonLuv]

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PSF0nJ4Q1KSissRqp2I2Gg+sIx5HsaEIKKwjMnNzeWEAF8oIcUkv5vaO0svBw3hZHUeQQQ0KhGn7idoAbDS15BB8KTmzvwCTOvJ/fmcwgMVW1RsWGW03SreUdEVu6FBNzekk3PzKoU/wAS2MQdV2WUDHw99L/JMv8A7w0V3s4387vDS1b+DISprH4eSOfu8m4aHLTWozJKdTxk1oOu2PVjJms/sik54KqaOWJUb9MMR83shm/LWIfOUw+ocxrUEStRYu5D01T/AAmQyOyytlury6qUrqbqy4wQeY8MacK0o8mS5DTXUliBYeBfEwF8rsRYecOaurly1LTHVVGpJik7v7Qaq2m04A92stlXouQF+RJLG39I7SnanKXCRXKUKWoQ5k1/LL4ygixFweBhhs7YdNIZnkSJctnyYooW/G2XC+cSEELDZmW+mwJyVf2qWqFWJuxL6FReU1gQoxgzA1tWIiP3e2F41mrJWZUBChaSrKhufiZ28AYLYX1sD8RMa7BHUJKLyluRZ1Tj0OT6fIYbFoO5lBSQWJLMRoWOtugyA6AQ/ggiG87glhYRkvaw6T2Yopx0pVXP3kmWzH5HKA//ACRMbk7HlrspHmOstnZ5qzGIAUscK3Jt4SqoCOPnYxW6tiZs0k5mZPB64ncMpGhFsrGK3vBtqZUd3LbCsqQoly0S+EBRhxWJJxEAZ309bt3xlVXFZ2e4hprI3Wzyt1t6Z/g0ikqFmLiUg5kHCQRdSQwDDI2IOYj6qJCupR1DKwsQdDEXurKCUkrhiUMfNtPfKJXvBfDxtfyHD9D7Q3F5isiE10zeOzMz2zsN5M1kXxLhLqeajh+YaddeMRUaFto/tz0RPqXv/L2im7aoBLYFDk1/Dy8jy6QrqNJ0w8SPqO6XXddvhT57fluRkwHh7xITNqTSLYrDoAPrDKG1bMKjLjl/fnCUZyjw8GjKuE2nJJ4G0ycSTnlc294TjxY+ofrioxRnWzcpMIIII7Kz6lpc2h8CNIRpEyvz/v8Avyh5TTQjBiiuBqjaMOIvqvmMwbEaRbFNLKKZNOWGJQRdJ+45nyFqtnMZstr3lOQJqEGzLiyD2PkdLYrxT58lkYo6srDVWBBHmDmI6hbGfBFlUoc/mJwQQRYVBGpdmO+x8NHUt0kzGOvKUx5/dPpra+WwRVbUrI4ZdTc65ZR1JETvNtgU0kt87HBLHNjoT0Gv/wCxWuzPfE1SfZ55/by1uG/xEFhi/OLgHnrztI9o9NipQ4BvLdWuOAN1PkMwfSM6uv4qhPzNO61+A5w8ijbbmFVRCxY6sxJJJ6nzufaNH3PpJcqnREsWKq8wjm4uLnyy8gIzvaI72SswajX9CPeLP2ZVwImyifFdXF+KhQnsMKj1h/VRbp27cmToJpX4ffgvMEEEZJvhDWk2lJmkrKnS3K6hHViPMA5RQu1rbL2lUVOzGZMu0xJQZnK/KvhF7E3JHELy1qm7m15VFhkVWzgsxmJ7+YGlTEQ2AIJl4wARqpAF78zATg3KCGmyS/cp3vx2zNwb8jdcrkWOWWcO4CDOd/t0ag459F4sRJmShYNc6shOWepXW9yDnaMdn1OAsrIyspIKsLEEZEEHMEHhHS+8G10pKeZPmaIMhxZjkqjqTYRzPVF51SS5u86YCToC01rn0uxiZScsJsiMIxy0sZ5Ng2bTAU8qWcwJaL7KBDsIASeJ19rR6BbIaQRsJYPPt5ZW965M5SJ0pcYw4XFiSLEkMAMyMyD6RQ6isMxiWYX01At0twjYIrO+WwROlMyKMY8QyF7j+ouIX1FcpLZ7eQ1pboQlvFZ8yg4hzHuI+J8vEtoi4VlTGGQJPTWMw2QaSy6jLmIX2XR99OlyQwUzHVATpibJQehYgX4XheQ5I8QtwgkOEqJLDVZktv4XUg/SGa7W10iltCT6httCimSJjSpyFJiGzKeH9QdQRkYQjo7fXcuRtCXn4JyjwTQMx+Fh86dOHC0YTtbd6fRzu7qEwkZqdVcfeVuI+o4gRfVYp7dxe6pw37DdVsLR7BBDyM97lx7NN5vslQJUxv2E4hW5I+iv0HynpY/LGwbb3fpqtbVElXto2jrfk48Q945uIjc+zHeP7VS4JjXnSbIxOrL8j+ZAseqk8YR1VeH1o0dHb1Lw5FT2/wBlM1LtSTBNXhLmWV/IP8LeoXzig19BNkNgnSnltydSL+R0bzF46bhCtopc5Sk2WkxDqrqGB9DFcNXOPO5ZZo4S+XY5igjZ9tdllLNu0hmkNyHjT+Am49GEUXbHZ3XSLlZYnJ96Ubn1Q2b2vDcNTXL6Cc9JZHtkrWz62ZJmJNlNhmIcSnryI4gi4I4gmN82XvPTVNIJ7sqqysHRiLggWZLanpzBHOOfZstlJVlKsNVYEMPNTmIf7BmKJyq5sjkKfPgffL1ibaY2YeTmq+dSaS9C7bBT9mb6EnI+Qj42LONPWy8JyxhT1V7C31HtDiorEloQlrjIKOfWH+427zTnFTN+BWut/nYcfyg+58ousmlGUpcMRohKVkYw5RpMJVTlUZlGJgrEDmQMh6mFYIwz1BzfR7yVEqeasTLzmxYmIvfELHLhbKw4YRwyh3vjutPppa1VbWq9RNIwoAzsx1J7wkBUUHW1tANRF77Vt11MsVUiSoZWJnFFsxBFsZA1tx42N+EZS0xj8TEgAKtySABc2F9BnoIg6NB3J7Su5ky5FTLLIihVmJ8QUaKyHWwyuDpbKL7Rb8bPmi61SL0mXQ+zgRz6rqOI9xHveDmPcQZIwW7tA3rNbOwyyfs8snAM/G2hmEeWQHAX5x5unuziC1c0ZGYqSQfwXd5nUeHAOpJ4CIfdnY7VlTLkJezG7sPlQZs3TLIdSI1vbKqs5JMtQsuRJVVUaDGdLdFlr/FFtMeqaKdRPoqbGsEEEaxhBEPtjeSTTnCbu/FUtceZJsPLWJKuqBLls5IGEE3Og6npFDr5NLNV532kB1WxUJbvHUWDgN4mD2BJ652zEUXWOO0eRnT1RnvLOCA2ukl5ztLuFY4gCLEYsyttDY304WhvLQaLkOJ4n1hW1xnHsZbeXk2ksLB8kgD+/aI6axDEnUG/tp/KJAZm/AadesITJGKai/fZV8yWA/mItpeJFN8cx9TqanN1U8wP0hrtnZEmqlmVPlh1PPVT95W1Vuoh4i2AHIWj6istMP3s7O6ilxTJN58nM5D9og/Eo+IfiX2EUsGOpIqO9HZ/TVd3UdxON/GgFmPN0yDeeR6w7Vq2tpiF2iT3h+RhMTm5u3TR1cubfwHwTB+BiLnzU2b923GPvePc+qoyTMl4pf8Aipcr68U9cupiAhzMbI4XAjidU02sNHUam4uNDHsUzsr239ooxLZrzJH7M8yv/LP8Ph80MXOMiUXFtM24yUkmghntioaXImuvxLLdh5hSRDyEK+SXlTEGrIyj1BEQudyZZw8GJCQaiZaZ4yxuWbM9TnDyt3XpypKqysBcYWPDobwjSOZE20xSCLqwIzETlZVBExa306xu2LLWDysJNLkrtHJ7yYiXPjZVvx8RAJ8843CnkqiqiABVAAA4AcIx7dWnL1ckAE2cMegXMk8tI2WEvaMveUTV9kx92UvqEEEEZxrAREMu6dCGLfY5Fyb5y0OfOxFhEzBAAgKOXa3dpYcMI/pHw2zpJ1kyz5ov9IdQQAN6ShlSr91KRL64FVb+dhnFFlVgnTJ80aNOmAeUu0oEdDgv6w87QN9lpFMiSQ1Qw9JQPzN+Lkvqcta/udb7HKt+L/e0M6X5/QT1z+H6kzBBBGiZIhXUomy3ltoyke/H01jLK7Zs6T/xZTCxte3hJz0bQ6GNaiP27swVEoyy2E3DK1r2I5jiMyPWF76fEWe41ptQ6nh8MytT0tHy+eXv/SLjSbjtf9rOAHJBcn946exioYLXHoYz51yh8yNWu6Fjai+AU8oWoZ/dTpU4KGMp1cK2hKkEA+o14GEoI4LDovdvb0qskibKPRlPxI3FSP58RnErHMtHXTZDiZImPLccUYi45EaMOhuI0PdztVYYVrJYZf8AFlixHVpfHzUjygyGDV4IZbK2vIqVxyJqzBxwnMdCuqnoYexJB4RFP2/2cUdQS6AyJh4y7BSeZl/D7WJ5xcYImMnF5RzKKksNFG3E3KnUE+Y7T0mS3TDZVZSSGBDEEkCwxDU6xeYIImUnJ5YRiorCCCCKV2ib5fZE7mSQahx592p+cj7x4A+egz5OiA7Vd4JXeLIlIjTVIMyZbNRbKVfmbgnkOpyV3c3Om1MuVOmvgluoYLmXsdBnktxY8ddIoG7+y2rKqXJJY9413a5Jw/E7E63tfPmRHRktAAABYAAADQAaCLq9RZBYixe3SVWPMlv98jPZeyZNOuGSgXmdWPm2ph9BBFTbbyy+MVFYSCCCCIJCCCCAAiodoW9wopfdyiDUTB4RrgXQzCPcAcT0Bi2TZgVSzGwUEk8gMyY5x27tdqufMqHyxnwg/Ko+FfQfUmABlMmFiWYlmYklibkk6kniYve4NTeQ0vijn2fMH3x+0UKJLd/a32abjOaEWcdOfmDn7jjFlE+ieWU6mt2VtLk1GCEKasRwCrAgi463/WF41TDawEEEBNtYkBKsqRLlvMbRFLH0F7RkN9TzJPubxoW+NaPssxVNySgy0tjW/wBLxnsZ+rlmSRqaCGIuQQQQQmaAR8Lkbeo/n/fWPuPiZwPUfXKABelqHlsHluyONGRip9xw6RddkdqFXKAWciTxlmfA9vzKCD/DFGgiSDaNn9qNE4Hed5JPJkLD+JL/AFtEzK302e2lZJH5mw/7rRz9BBkMHRaby0R0rKc//dL/AO6Pmo3pokBLVkjLlNQn0UG59I51tABBkMGnbzdqRIMuhUj/ADnGf7ks/q3sYzSdNZmZ3YszG7MxJJPMkx7IlM7YUUs3IcOp4AdTFy3S3Oec4vnY+J/kl9Bf45nLle+XHqMHLfscSmovHfyLF2P7AKLMq5i2Z7y5d9cAILt0u4At/l9bDSYSpadZaLLQWVQFA6CFYg6CCCCAAggggAIIIIAI7eOmabST5afE0qYq25lTYRzeDHUMZlvl2Xma7z6Kb3bPdmlMSEZjqVYfBflYjyiGSjKncDU2hjUVGLIZD9Y8rKSZKdpc1WWYhKsraj++eh1hKAkm939vmT4Hu0v6p1HMdPaL1TVWJQyPdToVOUZVF37ON2KypYvKfuqcHxO6llc8lS4xHmwItzOkMVXuOz4FL9Kp+9Hksn2h/vN7mE2YnUk+cPq/YdTJJxyWYD5pQLg/ugYx7epiMeeqmzMFPJvCfY5w7GcXwzOlXOPKENqysUmYo1wkjzGY+oilAxfBOU/MvuIpNfKEua0u+huvVTp7aekK6qPEhzQy5j6iMEEEJmgEIVkyynmdI+504LrryiOnOWzMAC6Vh4i/0hZaxeIIiybI2NSz5KTDKsTcEB5moJB+bmIdndukXMy7ebv/ADaGFppNZTQrLWQTw0/v1Kj9rXr7R4tWpyFyeQEXWn2TTf8ALkq55KpmH2FzE5QbAntbuqRlH4lWWB6NZvpE+AlzJEf5LfywZndNRT5nwSGA5v4R9dfSJej3aNx3zlichLlA3J5AjxN5ARpVFuTNbOdNVByl3Y/xsAB/CYtOydiSKcfsk8R1diWc+bHO3QZdIj4UeN/2J+NPn3V+pUd3dxsh3oEqX/hp8bfmYfD6XOeo0i9U1OstQiKFUZAAWAhWCK5TcuS2FcYcBBBBHJ2EEEEABBBBAAQQQnPnKilnICjUmABSG1ftCVJXHOmpLUfM7BR7njEfVVc17BMUst8CgKZpH32xArKUdQxzHHwxle9+5tYk2WzTGq3mkgWxF1IzsQcglvmGFQeAuIAIPtR23Iq63vKY4kWUssvYjGys5JAOosyi/G3K0VKJjaWzmlu0uchSYuRBFiP6jrxiHmeEkHK0QdCtHg7yX3t+7xp3ltcGIY7dcN46o2YJXcy+4w9zgXu8FsOG3hw2yta0c2bG3TraojuaaYVPzsMCeeNrA+l43ncHYM2io0kTpomOCzZXwpizwKTmVBub2GpyEBDLHHyyA6gHzj6giSBrN2bJb4pMtvNFP6iIPeXcakq5WAy1lOLlJktQpUnoLBhzB+hzizQQAc4b0bp1tASZi45XCcgxJb8VxeWfP0Jit/amPH2sP0jrJlBFiLg8DGa9pG5FBLpZ9WkruZqrcYGKoWLAAYPhzJ4AXvEYJyYmYI8Aj6gJNa7GtnU9RTzhNlhnlzeLN8LqCDhBtqHGnCNMpthU0uxSnlAjiEW/va8Y92HbRwVsySdJ0q4/NKNwLfldz6RuMTk5wsniqBoLR7BBAAQQQQAEEEEABBBBAAQQQQAEEEEABDWuohNwXZhhbEMJtc2Izy6+9jDqCACAl09RKSa4UYiWb4nmuwBOCWMVsNh1IuWNs4V2dIngXKjvGAxzZpGI25S0yCDOyhhrc5kkzUEAFW2puPIqpwnVTPMfCqWQ92tlLHRfFfxHPFwESOzN1qOnsZNNLVhbxFcTZZfG12J63iYggAIIIIACCCCAAggggAIzbtTkVNTTiZKCmkl3dxfxPbSba1jLAuRnocVjla7beqFCrLdgomthYk28IBZh5sBhyz8cE4vOQy0TBLZSpd1tkRYhZZzOV/isBlk2kAGMbpbgPXI00MktBdVLLfGw1yFrKDlfzyyiJo905s2r+xhcM0MytmbKF+Jz+G1rc7jnG27vSxT06UsgYmRpqjF8oE1x3jkc7EgDNje1hcgkbvCnnvWS8U2bMFpoNrsPDmgAAUjCPDxA1vnEYJyZPR7u1GzNr0cu4mY5i4WW4DIxwzMuBVWY26CN7iFeVKnVVPNADGXLnEH7pcy1zGoOUwWPJuIiaiSAggggAIIIIACCCCAAggggAIIIIACCCCAAggggAIIIIACCCCAAggggAIIIIACCCCAAtBBBAAhTSlBchQCzXNgBc2AueZsBC8EEADWlkqHmkKAWYEkAAnwjU8YdQQQAEEEEABBBBAAQQQQAEEEEABBBBAB//9k=
Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Roost
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
gives it a better sweeping stat plus will we ever use its special attack stat?

 

[Anna says hi]

Voting No Ban on Chansey. Reasoning coming once i get to a place with good wi-fi.

 

[Laxpras]

Voting No Ban on Chansey. Reasoning coming once i get to a place with good wi-fi.

"Because I topped ladder with it let me live"

Kidding, I'm sure you have an actual reason. I'm not gunna bother laddering atm, I may later, but I'm going to throw in my thought, which is: Chansey is a descendant from holy hell and is clearly banworthy. Ok that was over the top ye, but its just too. damn. bulky. This calc shows you enough:
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Diggersby Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 274-324 (42.6 - 50.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
Note: This is with a 77atk Diggersby, rather than the typical 56. That is insane. Too show how ridiculously fat this chansey is, let's compare Nature Swap Chansey without eviolite to standard Chansey with eviolite.

NS Chansey without eviolite:
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Chansey: 178-210 (27.7 - 32.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Standard Chansey with eviolite:
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 217-256 (33.8 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Yes, Chansey is physically bulkier without eviolite than a standard Chansey is with eviolite, and by a wide margin. Need anything else be said?

 

[sin(pi)]

I haven't played this meta at all since the latest update, but isn't Chansey just massive setup bait? In Inverse, Chansey is a top tier wall too, but anything which can make a 101HP sub (aka anything with 100 base HP or more) sets up on it, as do things with Taunt + Recovery. It also hates Knock Off (not as much, mind), Trick, and toxic (forces it out, so it's only temporary of course). I might be missing something (maybe its teammates are capable of supporting it to the extent where none of this is a problem), but it seems to me like the problems with Chansey arise more from people failing to consider ways to beat it*.

*I may be entirely wrong here but all I've heard so far is "I can't kill it with unboosted attacks it's broken" - Fur Coat Chansey is almost exactly the same in BH.

edit: also I forgot to mention this but, could we get a quick clarification as to how EVs work in the OP? I understand it fine, but there have been a fair number of people asking in the OM Room.

 

[Pipotchi]

Its so cool to see this back in discussion!

Heres a core that I used back in the beginning and deals with some common threats. Its a good place to start if you guys are confused by speed tiers and are beginners in the meta:

Aggron+Regice

Aggron @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Endeavor
- Iron Head

This is one of the best suicide leads in the game next to Steelix and Shuckle, and outright one of the top pokemon in the metagame thanks to its many other sets outside of suicide lead. There are two reasons to pick Aggron over these 2, and the first of these is the combination of Rocky Helmet, Sturdy, and Endeavor. This means you will survive the first hit and can proceed to cripple any opponent before going down, while a super-fast Taunt and SR are also excellent tools that it shares with Steelix. With rocky helmet, you can take down any physical attacker that tries to finish you off as you endeavor them, as well as priority users that switch in- and no pokemon can finish off your final 1 hp with rapid spin without dying itself. The second reason is that Aggron is also hits the hardest out of the suicide leads and can also be a sweeper later on with 110 attack and 180 speed if you dont lead with this pokemon.
Taunt/Rocky Helmet and Endeavor are both great tools to have on your team vs a Chansey too, which helps cover Regice's inability to tackle it.

Regice @ Life Orb
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 160 HP / 252 SpA / 96 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast
- Substitute / HP Water / Thunder Wave

Fast Regice is definitely underlooked. Speed tiers are crazy in this game but Regice can just slap on a Life Orb and boltbeam its way to success while outspeeding the vast majority of pokemon thanks to its 200 base speed. 96 speed is enough to outspeed positive natures base 180s, so the extra 160 hp will cushion against physical priority. Regice is just an excellent revenge killer in general despite its weak defensive typing, and can be relied on to check an enormous range of unpleasant pokemon- for instance, outspeeding and killing both 180 speed hasty cloyster AND shell smashed lonely cloyster as well as any dragons like KyuB after rocks, +1 salamence, mega abomasnow, mega lopunny and more. With SR up, something often guaranteed by Aggron, Regice can have a good chance of getting OHKOs on offensive pokemon with its decent 100 base SPA and life orb.
HP Water is an option for dealing with Mega Camerupt, and Thunder Wave can cripple any pokemon before Regice gets taken out. Substitute is what I usually use because Regice can cause many switches that can be taken advantage of- as well as dodging sucker punch and status.

Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Lax Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Knock Off / Acid Spray

(Im adding Tentacruel as a third)
Tentacruel is a good support pokemon for its ability to check CB Azumarill and Clefable. Beyond that, it can knock off Chanseys Eviolite and give some rapid spinning support to the other pokemon while covering their fighting weakness. You can justify Acid Spray over Knock Off also since it can break down walls or CM boosters. Relaxed nature is an option, although then Azumarill with CB has a chance to 3hko which may be undesirable- and also will result in a more disappointing speed stat. Other pokemon can go here such as roserade, but something that deals with powerful priority users as well as the above twos shared fighting weakness is really helpful. Tentacruel fills both those positions as a strong physical wall.

Heres an example of Regice and Aggron causing hassle: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/natureswap-409802497

tldr; 2 very fast mons that can take a dump on offense while also chunking defense r good

 

[Mek4]

wow i never realized how op shuckle is........
nice team bro

 

[cityfolk]

http://i.imgur.com/W788DRi.png
(pls ignore my terrible gxe)
Voting Ban on Chansey. It's bulk is unbelievable and it's extremely tough to break through. It forces you to run things like Mega Sableye, Taunt Heatran, Taunt Gengar, etc. While these mons are good, Chansey basically forces you to carry something like this. I feel like it's just really, really unhealthy for this metagame so I'm gonna go for a ban. Also this calc speaks for itself: (with NS boost) 252+ Atk Life Orb Reckless Hitmonlee High Jump Kick vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 499-588 (77.7 - 91.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[Quicksilverz]

I'm going to keep this in perspective of an offense player. Chansey is something that you need to build for no matter what. If you don't have something to bait it in that has knock off and a competent physical answer it will face roll your team.
"competent physical answer" would mean a lot of things in standard OU, however as LaxLapras pointed out even without the eviolite it has slightly greater bulk than base 5 def eviolite Chansey, which means in order to ohko it you need some serious firepower.

Some calcs for common wall breakers assuming base 50 def and eviolite is knocked off:
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Chansey: 580-684 (90.3 - 106.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
(80 base atk) +6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Chansey: 1005-1183 (156.5 - 184.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(80 base atk) 252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Chansey: 378-445 (58.8 - 69.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Hammer Arm vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Chansey: 332-392 (51.7 - 61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(77 base atk) +2 252+ Atk Life Orb Huge Power Diggersby Return vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Chansey: 727-855 (113.2 - 133.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Chansey: 552-649 (85.9 - 101%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
(130 base atk) 252+ Atk Gengar Focus Punch vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Chansey: 388-458 (60.4 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Mega Heracross Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Chansey: 554-654 (86.2 - 101.8%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
(150 base atk) +2 252+ Atk Doublade Sacred Sword vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Chansey: 518-610 (80.6 - 95%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Teravolt Kyurem-B Outrage vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Chansey: 390-459 (60.7 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
In order to ohko it you need a turn of setup.

With eviolite:
(80 base atk) +6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 670-790 (104.3 - 123%) -- guaranteed OHKO
And with max hp invest
(80 base atk) +6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 670-790 (95.1 - 112.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

Just for fun:
252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Chansey: 612-724 (95.3 - 112.7%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
(125 base atk) 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Chansey: 339-400 (52.8 - 62.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

And for the more uncommon, yet still noteworthy Lax Chansey with eviolite knocked off:
(80 base atk) +6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Chansey: 646-762 (100.6 - 118.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(130 base sp atk) 252+ SpA Machamp Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Chansey: 932-1098 (145.1 - 171%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Limiting team building aside it is also something that is too good to pass up as an option for an offense player. Its ability to switch into almost anything, spread paralysis, absorb status and cleric the team is too good to pass up.
In short: Its sheer bulk makes it attractive for every playstyle and forces all team building to account for it while being extremely difficult to take out even after the eviolite is knocked off I vote ban.

edit: forgot to alter Azumarill's base atk on the With eviolite calc, added another to compare max hp investment, forgot again on the Lax Chansey calc.

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

It's ridiculous how next to nothing 2HKO from both Physical and Special side. As mentioned, it's so bulky that even Banded Kyurem Black's Outrage has a high chance of not 2HKOing it. In terms of calc, Dr. Phd. BJ and LaxLapras already proved how bulky it is in the calc above. But bulky mons like Mega Slowbro can be worn down by Toxic while in Chansey, you just... can't because of Heal Bell or Natural Cure. When power can't break it, status can't break it, what's left? Ghost types? Taunt users? Magic Bouncers? Yeah there are things that can handle Chansey like Stallbreaker Mew or Mega Sableye for example, but it's few and those can be handled by using your own Magic Bouncers, especially for Taunt users, which is probably the only way to handle Chansey. Another thing that's crazy about Chansey is it's splashability in teams. My team is literally 4-5 Offense team and I slip a Chansey in it and it does well like Pdon in Uber.

Voting Ban.

 

[Doctor_DraX]

reqs (#17)

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I've been using Chansey since game one and holy sht this thing is broken.

OK obviously this thing makes innovative sets like SpAtt Aggron etc completely useless (even though it's not that good anyway), special mons never could touch it, I was breaking Kyurem's sub with Seismic Toss because of the EV demand from other stats, hippo does like 9 with eq it's ridiculous, free aegislash You need strong fighting moves like SD Keldeo CC to break this thing (and you get toxic'd). It may not seem like a lot but from 5 base defense to 50 gives it a 99 boost in defense which is like a boost of 149 with Eviolite You actually have to double on a heal bell or softboiled into a strong attacker and if the other player is any good they'll toss or toxic

Ban

 

[Funbot28]

What else can be said that others hadn't stated already? Chansey has literally its only weakness patched that limits it in standard play (in its abysmal physical Defense) and now can be raised to a much more suitable margin in Nature Swap that allows it to not be 2HKoed by certain strong physical attacks that it is supposed to in standard play such as Kyreum-B's Outrage and +2 Mega Scizor's Bug Bite and combined with its amazing movepool including moves such as Toxic + Seismic Toss, this allows Chansey to whittle down the enemy team with little effort. All these reasons combined leave me to believe that Chansey should be banned.

 

[AquaticPanic]

So, I've got some few tests with this team and works really well

Aquatic's Sweeper Team

Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Dragon Pulse
- Earth Power
- Flash Cannon

Steelix @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Earthquake
- Crunch
- Iron Head

Alakazam-Mega @ Alakazite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Psycho Cut
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Fire Punch

Regice @ Choice Specs
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Flash Cannon
- Signal Beam
- Thunderbolt

Ninjask @ Focus Sash
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 160 HP / 252 Atk / 96 Spe
Brave Nature
- Swords Dance
- X-Scissor
- Aerial Ace
- Protect

Hoopa @ Life Orb
Ability: Magician
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Destiny Bond
- Shadow Ball
- Psychic
- Dark Pulse

With Kyurem-B going to Sp. Attack, you have basically a White Kyurem. Ice Beam and Dragon Pulse for STAB, Flash Cannon for Fairy and rock coverage. Instead of earth Power you can run Roost.

Steelix is just a monster. Sure needs more speed but it hits like a truck. While using both Heavy Slam and Iron Head is unecessary, you can use Rock Slide instead of Heavy slam, so you also get Sheer Force boost. EQ for stab, Crunch for filler.

Physical Alakazam is somethyng I've always wanted to use. I put Knock Off for both a good move overall and in case of Chanseys, as well as Ghost coverage. Drain Punch is a Dark coverage and good against Chansey. Psycho cut over Zen Headbutt for crits. Fire Punch for filler.

Specs Regice for a good buff in Sp. Atk and to have an amazing speed. Ice Beam for Stab, Flash Cannon for Rock and Ice coverage, Fillers for fillers.

Now, one of my favorites for this meta. 160 base attack, 90 base speed with Speed Boost and Swords Dance for boosting attack. It can easly sweep a team if there are no priority moves.

And other one I love is hoopa. Now the speed doesn't suck. A regular set with two stabs and one coverage + Destiny bond since now the speed is insane.

Any thought on my team? (I'm not exactally a good player, so I need some tips)