Announcement Necrozma-Dawn-Wings Suspect Test (Necrozma-Dawn-Wings Banned)

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KineSquared

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:Necrozma-Dawn-Wings: Necrozma-Dawn-Wings Suspect :Necrozma-Dawn-Wings:
Following a unanimous vote, the Ubers UU council has voted to suspect Necrozma-Dawn-Wings

WHY:

It's been pretty clear that Necrozma-Dawn-wings has been a hot topic in the Ubers UU metagame. The reason why is pretty simple; it just doesn't have particularly many defensive answers. Thanks to its power Ghost STAB in Moongeist Beam and with Terastallization which gives it Fairy STAB , leaving pretty much only Bulky Normal Types and Kingambit as truly solid checks. Add on to this that Necrozma-Dawn Wings has incredible natural bulk paired with what is effectively Mold Breaker immune Filter, and you end up with a terrifying attacker that also has a very strong defensive presence.

Necrozma-Dawn-Wings also has a decent amount of set variety that can mix up what checks it. Calm Mind, Moonlight with 2 attacks is the most common set, but Specs can be slotted in to nuke things like Kingambit & other steels like Magearna with Earth Power, Rillaboom & Arceus-Grass and the aformentioned Steel types with Heat Wave. Alternatively, its Power Herb + Meteor Beam set boasts equivalent instant power, but without the drawback of the Choice Lock, meaning if it can be Scared out once then it loses alot of its power, however these slot in Trick Room for Speed Control and run the standard 2A combo of Moongeist Beam + Tera Blast Tera Fairy, making is a nightmare to check defensively. This is all to say that Necronzma-Dawn-Wings isn't just one set that is overwhelming; it can mix up what it's running to essentially invalidate some of its checks.

This isn't to say that Necrozma-Dawn-Wings is all powerful; it has checks but they're pretty sparse. Arceus-Dark is the go-to, as it offers a Ghost resist without being ruined by the most common coverage options (Ground & Fire), and the fact that is has a natural type advtange means that Necrozma-Dawn-Wings cannot do much without Terastallizing. Other Dark types, such as Kingambit and Tyranitar, can soft-check it as Necrozma-Dawn-Wings cannot usually switchin to these or setup in front of these, as they tend to shut down anything Necrozma-Dawn-Wings tries to do with Dark STAB and Thunder Wave Status. Necrozma-Dawn-Wings is also very slow, and cannot boost its Physical Defense, meaning it is somewhat exploitable in at least some aspect, leading to clear counterplay.


The voting requirements are a minimum GXE of 75 with at least 40 games played. In addition, you may play 1 less game for every 0.2 GXE you have above 75 GXE, down to a minimum of 25 games at a GXE of 78. As always, needing more than 40 games to 75 GXE is fine.

GXEminimum games
7540
75.239
75.438
75.637
75.836
7635
76.234
76.433
76.632
76.831
7730
77.229
77.428
77.627
77.826
7825


HOW:
During a Suspect test, each player must climb the ladder until they've acquired the GXE necessary to participate in the voting. Primarily, everyone that participates needs to make an alt account following these guidelines:

Every game must be played on the official Pokemon Showdown! server and on a new alt (created on or after today, January 15th 2024) beginning with "UUBNDW". Having the prefix at the start is mandatory; for example, "UUBNDW goat" would be allowed, but "The UUBNDW Account" would not.

To qualify for voting, the alt must achieve at least 78 GXE and 25 games played. For every game below this, the GXE requirement falls by 0.2%, bottoming out at 75% GXE at 40 games played. See the table above for a full list.

Necrozma Dawn-Wings will be allowed on the ladder during the suspect period.
The suspect will end on January 29th 2024 at 11:59 PM GMT+0.
It is mandatory to prove ownership of the alt account.
When posting your reqs, feel free to discuss whether you think Necrozma-Dawn-wings is banworthy or not (optional).

With all that being said, it's suspect time! The actual voting will take place in the Blind Voting Forum and will count towards the Tiering Contributor badge, so posting anything other than proof of reqs and discussion isn't necessary. Necrozma-DW needs a 60% suspect majority to be banned.

We will be running 4 suspect tours, where the winner and runner-up will qualify for reqs. These tours will be at 2 PM and 5 PM GMT-6 on The 19th and 20th of this week. There will be role pings for these tours in the UM Events/Ubers UU Discords when these tours are started. Good luck everyone!
NDW suspect.png
 
Last edited:

KineSquared

Ubers UU Founder
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
We will be running 4 suspect tours, where the winner and runner-up will qualify for reqs. These tours will be at 2 PM and 5 PM GMT-6 on The 19th and 20th of this week. There will be role pings for these tours in the UM Events/Ubers UU Discords when these tours are started, and held in the UM showdown room. We may hold more room tours depending on attendance. Good luck everyone! And sorry for the many edits, rewords, typos etc. This is our first suspect and we're still new at this. Thank you to Isaiah for all the help!
 

Isaiah

Here today, gone tomorrow
is a Site Content Manageris an official Team Rateris a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Top Social Media Contributor Alumnus
UM/OM Leader
For transparency's sake, the first suspect tour did run, but it's been clarified that only roomtours with at least 64 participants would be considered valid for suspect reqs, and this one only had 8. It'll probably be difficult to hit that number, but we've still got three more chances (one in 2 hours 20 minutes, two more tomorrow). Otherwise, we will re-evaluate reqs at the end of the weekend to determine if they need adjustment.
 

Isaiah

Here today, gone tomorrow
is a Site Content Manageris an official Team Rateris a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Top Social Media Contributor Alumnus
UM/OM Leader
For transparency's sake, the first suspect tour did run, but it's been clarified that only roomtours with at least 64 participants would be considered valid for suspect reqs, and this one only had 8. It'll probably be difficult to hit that number, but we've still got three more chances (one in 2 hours 20 minutes, two more tomorrow). Otherwise, we will re-evaluate reqs at the end of the weekend to determine if they need adjustment.
Re-clarification hehe: After further discussion, we can still count any of the suspect tours with at least 8 entrants for reqs. So re: the tour that already happened, first place and runner up will be getting reqs (I'll contact them and post about it later).

Join the next one happening in 1.5 hours!
 

Isaiah

Here today, gone tomorrow
is a Site Content Manageris an official Team Rateris a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Top Social Media Contributor Alumnus
UM/OM Leader
Gratz to JustCallMeFish and GigaBytes7 for being winner and runner-up, respectively, in the second suspect tour! They have now earned reqs to vote for this suspect test.

[18:32:53] |tournament|end|{"results":[["UUBNDW19thACC"]],"format":"[Gen 9] Ubers UU Suspect Tour #2","generator":"Single Elimination","bracketData":{"type":"tree","rootNode":{"children":[{"children":[{"children":[{"children":[{"children":[{"team":"portobellomushroom"},{"team":"UUBNDW Mulch"}],"state":"finished","team":"portobellomushroom","result":"win","score":[1,0]},{"children":[{"team":"Kizaco"},{"team":"IHaveALoonaPlush⚢"}],"state":"finished","team":"IHaveALoonaPlush⚢","result":"loss","score":[0,2]}],"state":"finished","team":"portobellomushroom","result":"win","score":[5,0]},{"children":[{"children":[{"team":"UUBNDW CW19991"},{"team":"Dangi Wets"}],"state":"finished","team":"UUBNDW CW19991","result":"win","score":[5,1]},{"children":[{"team":"Kris"},{"team":"Bloertcher"}],"state":"finished","team":"Kris","result":"win","score":[3,2]}],"state":"finished","team":"UUBNDW CW19991","result":"win","score":[3,0]}],"state":"finished","team":"portobellomushroom","result":"win","score":[6,2]},{"children":[{"children":[{"children":[{"team":"UUBNDW19thACC"},{"team":"Bice-D"}],"state":"finished","team":"UUBNDW19thACC","result":"win","score":[5,2]},{"children":[{"team":"yomaalt"},{"team":"Dorron"}],"state":"finished","team":"yomaalt","result":"win","score":[3,2]}],"state":"finished","team":"UUBNDW19thACC","result":"win","score":[3,0]},{"children":[{"team":"uubndw icy2"},{"team":"Mekl"}],"state":"finished","team":"uubndw icy2","result":"win","score":[2,0]}],"state":"finished","team":"UUBNDW19thACC","result":"win","score":[5,0]}],"state":"finished","team":"UUBNDW19thACC","result":"loss","score":[0,4]},{"children":[{"children":[{"children":[{"team":"UUberSlaveCardinal"},{"team":"lemonstre1"}],"state":"finished","team":"lemonstre1","result":"loss","score":[0,5]},{"children":[{"team":"tired tater"},{"team":"Luna's Bann3d Now"}],"state":"finished","team":"Luna's Bann3d Now","result":"loss","score":[3,5]}],"state":"finished","team":"lemonstre1","result":"win","score":[2,0]},{"children":[{"children":[{"team":"KPITAN"},{"team":"GigaBytes7"}],"state":"finished","team":"GigaBytes7","result":"loss","score":[0,5]},{"children":[{"team":"Kinesquared"},{"team":"UUBNDW Poopmeister"}],"state":"finished","team":"Kinesquared","result":"win","score":[1,0]}],"state":"finished","team":"GigaBytes7","result":"win","score":[3,0]}],"state":"finished","team":"GigaBytes7","result":"loss","score":[0,1]}],"state":"finished","team":"UUBNDW19thACC","result":"win","score":[2,0]}}}
 
1705707768111.png


Gratz to JustCallMeFish and GigaBytes7 for being winner and runner-up, respectively, in the second suspect tour! They have now earned reqs to vote for this suspect test.

[18:32:53] |tournament|end|{"results":[["UUBNDW19thACC"]],"format":"[Gen 9] Ubers UU Suspect Tour #2","generator":"Single Elimination","bracketData":{"type":"tree","rootNode":{"children":[{"children":[{"children":[{"children":[{"children":[{"team":"portobellomushroom"},{"team":"UUBNDW Mulch"}],"state":"finished","team":"portobellomushroom","result":"win","score":[1,0]},{"children":[{"team":"Kizaco"},{"team":"IHaveALoonaPlush⚢"}],"state":"finished","team":"IHaveALoonaPlush⚢","result":"loss","score":[0,2]}],"state":"finished","team":"portobellomushroom","result":"win","score":[5,0]},{"children":[{"children":[{"team":"UUBNDW CW19991"},{"team":"Dangi Wets"}],"state":"finished","team":"UUBNDW CW19991","result":"win","score":[5,1]},{"children":[{"team":"Kris"},{"team":"Bloertcher"}],"state":"finished","team":"Kris","result":"win","score":[3,2]}],"state":"finished","team":"UUBNDW CW19991","result":"win","score":[3,0]}],"state":"finished","team":"portobellomushroom","result":"win","score":[6,2]},{"children":[{"children":[{"children":[{"team":"UUBNDW19thACC"},{"team":"Bice-D"}],"state":"finished","team":"UUBNDW19thACC","result":"win","score":[5,2]},{"children":[{"team":"yomaalt"},{"team":"Dorron"}],"state":"finished","team":"yomaalt","result":"win","score":[3,2]}],"state":"finished","team":"UUBNDW19thACC","result":"win","score":[3,0]},{"children":[{"team":"uubndw icy2"},{"team":"Mekl"}],"state":"finished","team":"uubndw icy2","result":"win","score":[2,0]}],"state":"finished","team":"UUBNDW19thACC","result":"win","score":[5,0]}],"state":"finished","team":"UUBNDW19thACC","result":"loss","score":[0,4]},{"children":[{"children":[{"children":[{"team":"UUberSlaveCardinal"},{"team":"lemonstre1"}],"state":"finished","team":"lemonstre1","result":"loss","score":[0,5]},{"children":[{"team":"tired tater"},{"team":"Luna's Bann3d Now"}],"state":"finished","team":"Luna's Bann3d Now","result":"loss","score":[3,5]}],"state":"finished","team":"lemonstre1","result":"win","score":[2,0]},{"children":[{"children":[{"team":"KPITAN"},{"team":"GigaBytes7"}],"state":"finished","team":"GigaBytes7","result":"loss","score":[0,5]},{"children":[{"team":"Kinesquared"},{"team":"UUBNDW Poopmeister"}],"state":"finished","team":"Kinesquared","result":"win","score":[1,0]}],"state":"finished","team":"GigaBytes7","result":"win","score":[3,0]}],"state":"finished","team":"GigaBytes7","result":"loss","score":[0,1]}],"state":"finished","team":"UUBNDW19thACC","result":"win","score":[2,0]}}}
well, here is the print
 

Fusion Flare

i have hired this cat to stare at you
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
1705876356108.png

I got reqs, and I think Necrozma Dawn Wings should be banned.
:sm/necrozma-dawn wings:
It is way too strong and way too versatile for the minimal number of answers that can be used against it, and even if you can hit it hard, way too often can it just go 1 for 1 at a MINIMUM because Prism Armor + Tera can annihilate counterplay at the drop of a hat. Not that it even needs Tera sometimes, since 97/109/127 bulk is ABSURD for this thing's power level. For reference, it's only SLIGHTLY physically weaker than Zacian, another Pokemon renowned for it's combination of bulk and power.

I used it on a Sticky Webs team to patch up its middling speed tier, and it needs only the tiniest chip for the likes of Arceus-Dark, effectively its ONLY reliable check, to fall victim to it. An Arceus-Dark which, I might add, is practically pigeonholed into mono-Judgement nowadays, because it also needs Calm Mind in order to not get overloaded by potential Fairy Tera Blasts. I didn't run Fairy TB on my set, but I felt like I didn't need it because Earth Power just as easily picked up the slack against the likes of Kingambit and Magearna.

This mon just snowballs way too easily for it to be allowed here, so it should be soundly removed from the tier.

1705876430445.png


https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ubersuu-2040685760-lvgdzvmk18ryrefkruwd1ghul10mko9pw - NDW chips an Arceus-Dark into MBeam + EP range and starts tearing open holes to clean up afterward

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ubersuu-2040690336-hc8wkqy32rwy6zkyehbwdshi6yzou65pw - NDW starts instantly mowing down a TR team after a Meteor Beam

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ubersuu-2040693210-3ae0x69jo61bnk9cawpkcrurde0xkr5pw - My opponent's NDW snipes my Urshifu with Fairy Tera Blast and becomes a menace and a half to take down

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ubersuu-2040711110-t9wsfdwx2xwmyibrnka93jej0cn3m7ipw - NDW starts blasting at the beginning of the game and forces a defensive Tera in order for the opponent to not be instantly crushed

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ubersuu-2040697431-uk7xnflk6wlpbsz7l87ew7welajjj9bpw - Once Arceus-Dark is outta the picture, NDW goes to town
 

Leo Justice

Ubers UU leader
is a Forum Moderator
Moderator
Now that I've gotten the qualifications and gotten enough time to think, i think it's a fine time to give my opinion on Necrozma Dawn Wings.

To me, if it should be banned or not is a question of how centralized we want the metagame to be.

There is no denying that NDW is currently the best Pokemon on the tier, and that it has mostly skewed the viability of most other pokemon surrounding it. However, unlike Zekrom, there are actual answers for it on the tier, and enough defensive counterplay exists to where it is not as blatantly broken. In particular, it doesn't disrupt any archetype, because it fits in all archetypes rather nicely, outside of rain and sand, which are both kind of dead anyways due to sun being arguably better. Its bulk of 97 109 127 allows it to effectively have Magearna levels of Bulk, which if you've played this tier, you know its bulk is really good. Its base 154 special attack with base 100 BP stab moves gives it a lot of power. Its STAB combination isn't great. but it is good enough to give it a lot of tools

Moongeist beam is for STAB, Photon Geyser is for immediate Psychic type damage, Stored power is for less immediate but still deadly power. Earth power for coverage, meteor beam for the immediate +1, stealth rocks to play support, moonlight for recovery, and knock off to punish switches outside of Arceus-Dark. Iron Defense, Dragon Dance and CM for set up options, access to Trick room, and even expanding force.

NDW has incredible set versatility and team flexibility. Particularly, there has not been a structure where it doesn't fit. This set versatility makes it fit into practically every archetype. You want screens? its a CM sweeper. You want trick room? It gets trick room and power herb meteor beam. You want stall? NDW can run a defensive set! You want a grassy seed sweeper? It fits right in. You want a balance structure and need a wallbreaker? Choice specs works fine.

You can oftentimes tell which set would NDW be running in its team. If it has Ursaluna, Magearna, etc, you should probably expect power herb meteor beam with trick room. If its rillaboom, then grassy seed or leftovers with moonlight and CM is the most common. If its a balance core, its a toss up between Defensive, CM or specs. if its a HO team, expect CM.

What are the best answers to it? Any dark type, of course. Dark types completely wall it, and even with its ability, it'll take 50% from a cyclazar's knock off. This means most coverage dark or ghost type attacks will 2hko it at the very least and it'll often get OHKOd by any STAB of those two types. NDW also lacks any coverage outside of Earth Power, meaning Dark types can usually take it on even after its CM'd. In particular, Arceus-Dark will almost always counter NDW unless the NDW player outplays them perfectly or gets lucky with critical hits. It is part of the reason why it is currently sitting in S tier in the viability rankings.

HOWEVER.

The main thing that makes NDW banworthy in my opinion is Tera. Tera can patch up weaknesses of pokemon which end up making them harder to answer. Zacian was so much of a menace partly because it could break through some of its checks with Tera ground or Tera fire. Zekrom could get past Great Tusk, Landorus-T and Iron Treads with Tera water of flying. And in this case, NDW is the perfect abuser for Tera.

You don't like your defensive type? You need coverage to hit opposing Dark types? Well lucky for you, Tera Fairy is right there to aid your poor NDW to turn around the matchup into any pesky Dark type that comes your way.

Tera fairy or Fighting allows NDW to break past the checks like Arceus-Dark, which you have to run anyways because otherwise a tera-less NDW can cause you a lot of issue. Tera fairy is generally preferred over fighting since the Fairy type is way better defensively. With Tera, your ability now becomes insanely good, as it allows you to shrug off hits from pokemon like Magearna and Solgaleo.

Tera fairy makes Kingambit the preferred answer to it, but it has the issue of it being slower without significant investment, and being weak to earth power. the 50/50 of Tera fairy also doesn't help, as Kingambit cannot go for Kowtow cleave without risking it Tera'ing, and it cannot go for Iron head since if it doesn't Tera then it is a lot less damage. Tera fighting also stomps Kingambit, and Tera ground beats it completely too.

So, what do I think of NDW?

I think it probably needs to go, since its presence in the metagame makes Dark types almost a requirement yet still has the means of beating them.
Personally, if Tera wasn't in this tier, then it'd be fine and it'd go somewhere to S- to A rank, since then its 4x weakness canbe exploited by anything with a hint of Dark Coverage. It forcing suboptimal moves on Mewtwo isn't that problematic in my opinion since Shadow Ball still hits a decent amount of Mewtwo checks like Solgaleo.

Overall, I am leaning less towards ban the more than I think about it- since it doesn't disrupt most archetypes since it fits on everything. However, it does make TR kind of too dominant in my opinion. Its ability to Tera also has to be considered. It doesn't matter that it is a Tera Hog when it Tera'ing is usually the best course of action outside of Emergencies.
 
Now that I've gotten the qualifications and gotten enough time to think, i think it's a fine time to give my opinion on Necrozma Dawn Wings.

To me, if it should be banned or not is a question of how centralized we want the metagame to be.

There is no denying that NDW is currently the best Pokemon on the tier, and that it has mostly skewed the viability of most other pokemon surrounding it. However, unlike Zekrom, there are actual answers for it on the tier, and enough defensive counterplay exists to where it is not as blatantly broken. In particular, it doesn't disrupt any archetype, because it fits in all archetypes rather nicely, outside of rain and sand, which are both kind of dead anyways due to sun being arguably better. Its bulk of 97 109 127 allows it to effectively have Magearna levels of Bulk, which if you've played this tier, you know its bulk is really good. Its base 154 special attack with base 100 BP stab moves gives it a lot of power. Its STAB combination isn't great. but it is good enough to give it a lot of tools

Moongeist beam is for STAB, Photon Geyser is for immediate Psychic type damage, Stored power is for less immediate but still deadly power. Earth power for coverage, meteor beam for the immediate +1, stealth rocks to play support, moonlight for recovery, and knock off to punish switches outside of Arceus-Dark. Iron Defense, Dragon Dance and CM for set up options, access to Trick room, and even expanding force.

NDW has incredible set versatility and team flexibility. Particularly, there has not been a structure where it doesn't fit. This set versatility makes it fit into practically every archetype. You want screens? its a CM sweeper. You want trick room? It gets trick room and power herb meteor beam. You want stall? NDW can run a defensive set! You want a grassy seed sweeper? It fits right in. You want a balance structure and need a wallbreaker? Choice specs works fine.

You can oftentimes tell which set would NDW be running in its team. If it has Ursaluna, Magearna, etc, you should probably expect power herb meteor beam with trick room. If its rillaboom, then grassy seed or leftovers with moonlight and CM is the most common. If its a balance core, its a toss up between Defensive, CM or specs. if its a HO team, expect CM.

What are the best answers to it? Any dark type, of course. Dark types completely wall it, and even with its ability, it'll take 50% from a cyclazar's knock off. This means most coverage dark or ghost type attacks will 2hko it at the very least and it'll often get OHKOd by any STAB of those two types. NDW also lacks any coverage outside of Earth Power, meaning Dark types can usually take it on even after its CM'd. In particular, Arceus-Dark will almost always counter NDW unless the NDW player outplays them perfectly or gets lucky with critical hits. It is part of the reason why it is currently sitting in S tier in the viability rankings.

HOWEVER.

The main thing that makes NDW banworthy in my opinion is Tera. Tera can patch up weaknesses of pokemon which end up making them harder to answer. Zacian was so much of a menace partly because it could break through some of its checks with Tera ground or Tera fire. Zekrom could get past Great Tusk, Landorus-T and Iron Treads with Tera water of flying. And in this case, NDW is the perfect abuser for Tera.

You don't like your defensive type? You need coverage to hit opposing Dark types? Well lucky for you, Tera Fairy is right there to aid your poor NDW to turn around the matchup into any pesky Dark type that comes your way.

Tera fairy or Fighting allows NDW to break past the checks like Arceus-Dark, which you have to run anyways because otherwise a tera-less NDW can cause you a lot of issue. Tera fairy is generally preferred over fighting since the Fairy type is way better defensively. With Tera, your ability now becomes insanely good, as it allows you to shrug off hits from pokemon like Magearna and Solgaleo.

Tera fairy makes Kingambit the preferred answer to it, but it has the issue of it being slower without significant investment, and being weak to earth power. the 50/50 of Tera fairy also doesn't help, as Kingambit cannot go for Kowtow cleave without risking it Tera'ing, and it cannot go for Iron head since if it doesn't Tera then it is a lot less damage. Tera fighting also stomps Kingambit, and Tera ground beats it completely too.

So, what do I think of NDW?

I think it probably needs to go, since its presence in the metagame makes Dark types almost a requirement yet still has the means of beating them.
Personally, if Tera wasn't in this tier, then it'd be fine and it'd go somewhere to S- to A rank, since then its 4x weakness canbe exploited by anything with a hint of Dark Coverage. It forcing suboptimal moves on Mewtwo isn't that problematic in my opinion since Shadow Ball still hits a decent amount of Mewtwo checks like Solgaleo.

Overall, I am leaning less towards ban the more than I think about it- since it doesn't disrupt most archetypes since it fits on everything. However, it does make TR kind of too dominant in my opinion. Its ability to Tera also has to be considered. It doesn't matter that it is a Tera Hog when it Tera'ing is usually the best course of action outside of Emergencies.
It reminds me of gen 6 Primal Groudon tbh, it skews the metagame a lot (with help of buddies) and there are many ways of using it, mainly offensive though
 

BigFatMantis

is a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributor
UUPL Champion
So I guess this is where we leave thoughts on the NDW issue? I wanted to give some brief things I have been thinking about, because I'm still undecided on how to vote here. Additionally, I think this vote is going to be one of the most important votes in the history of this tier because it will define for the most part how we tier this.

If we are tiering by OU standards (or other tiers like UU/NU standards etc.), then I believe that NDW is too powerful for the tier and should probably get banned. However, if we are tiering by Ubers standards, then I think while it is certainly very powerful and centralizing, it doesn't really strike me as something that would get banned in the Ubers metagame if it came down to it. Let me explain a bit more:

Ubers is inherently an imbalanced tier. If it was a perfectly balanced tier it wouldn't exist - it would just be OU. There are, of course, certain things that are so absurd that it makes the entire rest of the tier trivial and therefore action is needed (see: Mega Rayquaza back in the day). I think that Zekrom is also a good example of this - the tier had no real answer to it and it could just break through everything. It was going to make the tier borderline unplayable and needed to go. Necrozma Dawn Wings doesn't do this - it has counterplay and, while a bit limited, it's not unreasonable counterplay. Arceus-Dark isn't "bad" (duh lol). Kingambit isn't bad. It's slow and can't boost its Speed, thus relying on either Webs or TR to try to snowball. I'm not saying Necrozma is an easy-to-handle mon, my point is just more that we do have answers to it, albeit limited, and I don't think that Ubers would ban it if it came down to it there. In fact I'm not sure they'd even suspect it.

Now, OU is different of course. If something is choking out to the tier to the point where counterplay forces you into specific structures, then it isn't healthy for the tier and should be banned. NDW probably does this, as while it has answers, you are forced into specific structures like Arceus-Dark or Kingambit or creative otherwise non-real mons like Meowscarada to try to handle it (or you can just power through). You can't even reliably stall it out because some of them run Psyshock for Blissey, and then if they have Tera Fairy Blast all of a sudden your Arceus-Dark check is no good. I would definitely agree that, by these standards (OU Standards), NDW is too much and should be banned.

So now let's go to Ubers UU. I have absolutely no clue how this tier is supposed to be tiered with respect to bans and suspects. Is it more like OU, or is it more like Ubers? If it is the latter, then do not ban NDW because it simply isn't banworthy by those standards. If it is the former, then yes ban it. Me personally - I like to think of this tier closer to Ubers than to OU, and so I lean towards not banning NDW and just rolling with whatever the tier blesses us with for drops/rises (provided it's not absurd like Zekrom). That's how I feel about the situation and felt it was important for me to get this out there. Maybe there's an actual announcement somewhere that describes exactly how we're supposed to tier this and I missed it, if so I'm sorry.
 

Qbking3

Banned deucer.
I probably should have made a post about this as soon as i got reqs but that ship has sailed so here we are. To start off, I am going to vote no ban on :Necrozma-Dawn-Wings:. Ubers UU is an Ubers tier and we need to treat it as such. It is a broken checks broken meta by design and that will never not be the case no matter what we ban.

In the case of :Necrozma-Dawn-Wings:, it is a mon who's main checks are already amazing. :Arceus-Dark: is arguably the best mon in the tier with the only real competition being :Necrozma-Dawn-Wings:. :Kingambit: is also incredible but ways to beat it that are considered much less are also very important. :Palafin-Hero: for example, can 2HKO :Necrozma-Dawn-Wings: with Jet Punch or outspeed and OHKO with Wave Crash and :Arceus-Fire: can 2HKO with Flare Blitz which none of the common Tera types resist. These aren't counters but they are answers that are reliable which people are currently ignoring when it comes to beating :Necrozma-Dawn-Wings: for the simple reason that their attacks aren't super effective. Phasing is also a option that isn't brought up much but this is for a much more valid reason being that 2 of the top 3 non-Arceus phazers being :Solgaleo: and :Giratina: are weak to Moongeist Beam. Overall it's actually quite manageable with good teambuilding and careful play.

When it comes to it's place in the meta, :Necrozma-Dawn-Wings: I would argue is extremely healthy outside of the Calm Mind set. Its utility set is extremely good with access to powerful tools such as Knock Off, Future Sight, and Stealth Rock. If you invest into Special Defense, you can wall and ko :Palkia-Origin: which has historically been a problem otherwise. It is a super sturdy wall and spinblocker that has a 4x weakness to Dark to offset that power which makes it susceptible to the most common spinner being :Great Tusk: who always carries Knock Off. To the people who think that :Necrozma-Dawn-Wings: makes Trick Room broken, it doesn't. It certainly is a massive buff to Trick room but it still has the same issues that it had before it. You are still terrified of Ground types, :Palafin-Hero:, hazards, and setup sweepers. The reason it seems so broken right now is that people are spamming it on ladder because I posted the team that I used for the suspect which happened to be Trick Room one. The reason Trick room is so strong in this tier is because we have such powerful enablers. :Ursaluna: is in UU right now and it's worse there than here because the Trick Room enablers there suck at enabling it.

The thing that ultimately makes me not want :Necrozma-Dawn-Wings: banned is that it is not at a level of brokenness or uncompetitiveness that it would need to be banned from an Ubers tier. :Zekrom: and Last Respects, our two most recent bans, were banned because they were strong to a point where defensive counterplay can't keep up and broken couldn't check broken. :Necrozma-Dawn-Wings: is nowhere near that level of power at the moment and I realized that after recognizing that every teamstyle has at least two checks to it whereas stuff that gets banned has almost none. :Zekrom: needed Tera Ground Clear Amulet :Dondozo: to wall it reliably, and Last Respects pretty much required a Normal type/Tera. :Necrozma-Dawn-Wings: has a list of top mons that beat it. What I hope people takeaway from this is don't get locked into hard counters as a lot of mons don't have one that fit into most playstyles. It's okay to be somewhat messy/creative when beating a mon and don't forget that we have physical attackers and revenge killers that don't care what tera type :Necrozma-Dawn-Wings: has. Who knows, maybe your spinner can ko it or put it in range for a teammate to knock it out.
 
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