SPOILERS! Necrozma Dusk Mane/Dawn Wing [If it wasn't obvious spoilers]

[MaahirMomtaz12]

Yes.

So it'd be 1.2^2=1.44x??? How does the calculation work?

 

[Swaggy-G]

So it'd be 1.2^2=1.44x??? How does the calculation work?

http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...ttle-mechanics-research.3620030/#post-7576456
http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...ttle-mechanics-research.3620030/#post-7576510
Here's the two relevant posts. Apparently Neuroforce works exactly like expert belt, down to the same step in the damage formula. I'm guessing the effect is just applied twice.

 

[TheTraininator]

So now that we know how Ultra Necrozma works, here’s the question I’ve been wondering about: what is the best way to run it in Ubers?

Effectively, Ultra Necrozma is like a Mega with two different base formes that it can start out as: Dusk Mane and Dawn Wings, and choosing to start as one or the other changes whether or not it can run Sunsteel Strike or Moongeist Beam. If it weren’t for that final fact, I would say you should always choose Dusk Mane as your base forme because of much better defensive typing and Stealth Rock resistance, but Moongeist will probably be appreciated on a lot of sets. On the other hand, I don’t see Dawn Wings forme getting any use in Ubers outside of Moongeist Ultra Necrozma because Lunala is otherwise better, whereas I think Dusk Mane might actually otherwise have a niche, so if you use Dawn Wings, it’s a dead giveaway that your Z-Move slot is going to be used on it.

Necrozma actually has a quite strong physical movepool between Photon Geiser, Knock Off, Sunsteel Strike (with Dusk Mane base), Rock Slide for Ho-oh, and Earthquake, but the problem is it lacks any physical Dragon STAB outside of Outrage, which is esentially an unusable move if the opponent has a Xerneas in the wings. That wouldn’t be so much of a problem if it could run Dragonium Z as Ultra Necrozma, but since it reauires a different Z Crystal to be able to transform at all, that’s obviously not possible. At least Neuroforce and good coverage helps make up for not being able to use a secondary STAB. On the other hand, not only is its special movepool not bad either, (Photon Geiser, Moongeist Beam (with Dawn Wings base), Heat Wave, Earth Power for Prima Donna,) but it also gets access to an actually usable Dragon STAB in Dragon Pulse, which I’m sure will be very useful in Ubers.

On top of its strong movepool on both sides of the spectrum, it can also boost on both sides with Swords Dance and Calm Mind. Psychic/Dragon typing and 97/97/97 bulk in Ubers is terrible defensively and bad for boosting, but both of its base formes both have better bulk and Prism Armor to aid in potential setup. That said, Dawn Wings forme has an even worse defensive typing, so would we possibly see Dusk Mane Calm Mind sets without Moongeist? This is the kind of shit I’m having trouble wrapping my head around. I think this thing is so versatile and strong that it’s going to end up good no matter what, but there’s so many different ways you could run it that I can’t pinpoint any obvious “best sets” at the moment. What do you guys think?

 

[fightnugget]

Can this stack with Expert Belt?

No, because you can't hold an expert belt and ultranecronium-z

 

[Siggu]

No, because you can't hold an expert belt and ultranecronium-z

But it could be a good question for AAA or BH, though I don't think it was where the question was heading to.

 

[Nexus]

It does stack with expert belt for AAA and BH purposes.

 

[Jibaku]

I think the best way to run it would be to use Dusk Mane as a base and SD/Photon/EQ/[Sunsteel/Stone Edge] as its moveset. For more details I have my opinions on page 1 of this thread (+ the Ultra Burst mechanics have been confirmed).

Moving away a bit from Ultra Necrozma. While Ultra Burst will likely define a large part of its gameplay, Dusk Mane Necrozma is potentially a decent standalone Pokemon, having patched parts of Solgaleo's key weaknesses through Prism Armor and access to boosting moves. Additionally, it does not have to spend an extra turn blowing up something, whereas w/ Ultranecronium Z it has to transform first. Necrozma-DM might end up being a better wallbreaker, but idk.

252+ Atk Necrozma-DM Searing Sunraze Smash vs. 252 HP / 24 Def Mega Sableye: 334-394 (109.8 - 129.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Necrozma-DM Searing Sunraze Smash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Yveltal: 432-508 (109.9 - 129.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Necrozma-DM Searing Sunraze Smash vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Ho-Oh: 448-528 (107.6 - 126.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO (around the same damage to Kyogre)
+2 252+ Atk Necrozma-DM Searing Sunraze Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Lugia: 495-583 (118.9 - 140.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO (not that you'd really send Lugia into Necro in the first place, but it can check Necrozma-Ultra)

I think it'll still mostly end up using Ultranecronium-Z though, but not having to transform and sacrificing key resists in the process might be something to look into?

 

[TenshouYoku]

While Dusk Mane is so-so, Dawn Wings really is a huge bummer. The original one has the all-so-mightly Shadow Shield makes it significantly harder to kill with things that aren't named STAB boosted Dark/Ghost attacks (such as Yveltal), and the insane amount of attacks it can throw into the opponent's face is just crazy, while Dawn Wings is stuck with the poor movepool of Necrozma, and doesn't really offer much other than its signature. Even with original Necrozma's defense with that HP this thing just doesn't tank more than the original Lunala which is plain stupid. Come on GF, these two are said to be capable of boosting its freaking speed by ejecting black light from its rear boosters and they are like a chunk slower than the original? Really?

Now the good news is because you will be using Ultra Necrozma's speed instead of their base form as you transform (similar to Mega Evolution), so you will not be stuck with the 77 speed whatsoever, but the thing is Necrozma's movepool is simply lacking. Now, with the exception of Sunsteel/Moongeist, Necro can learn everything in either form just like Kyurem, but it is just so goddamned lacking on both sides. Special has better moves such as Flash Cannon and Moongeist, but it doesn't offer Swords dance-equivalent moves, and if you are running Physical you don't really have a reliable Dragon STAB, and niche things such as trying to use DM for special-based Ultra Necro will mean you are going to miss out Moongeist Beam and vice versa. Neither 4 forms of Necrozma are particularily tough to withstand a good amount of punishment so you would wanna clean the tables quick and fast.

Ultra Necrozma will not be like insanely broken as the infamous Mega Rayquaza, despite its stats are just bonkers. Despite Necrozma is quite fast and can pull out a better mixed attack style because of Photon Geyzer or just make it hard to guess, Mega Ray has 180, a tad 13 higher than both of its attacks on both sides, Mega Ray is slightly tougher in raw bulk (97/97/97 vs 105/100/100, not a huge difference but still there) and has the stupid Delta Stream which essentially is an "I win" button against something that doesn't also have stupidly powerful attacks to deal with it, while Necrozma has an in-built Expert Belt which is kinda niche despite its massive attack, and has 6 weakness which it can't deal with comfortably unless you use Dusk Mane as a sort of buffer because of its better bulk. It is also limited to its own Z-crystal (although it gives it an incredibly powerful nuke which is gonna hurt quite much), while Mega Ray can carry literally anything (except Z-crystals, but that's like not usable instead of incapable), and even Life Orb to push through everything. As the icing on the cake, Ray has extreme speed of which we all know how crazy it is combined with that 180 base attack while Necro doesn't have any equivalent moves to use.


Maybe Dusk Wings is gonna join Black Kyurem as the only legendaries with not less than 680 to OU despite doesn't have negative abilities hindering it. This guy wouldn't be impactful in Ubers because whatever that hard-counters Lunala will just as well hard counter this one, and it doesn't offer any niche that others, and even Lunala itself can pull out aside of Stones, which isn't something that even Dusk Wings can pull out comfortably. Thing is legitimately worse than Black Kyurem despite its better movepool (which honestly isn't really that great), even though it can hit like a huge truck in the face, it lacked key speed, has absolutely horrendous weakness which way too many things can abuse it with and doesn't have counterplays to deal with its counters, not to mention thing is actually amazingly fragile.

 

[TheTapDancer]

The real question:
How will ultranecrozium Z work in Mix and Mega?

 

[MaahirMomtaz12]

While Dusk Mane is so-so, Dawn Wings really is a huge bummer. The original one has the all-so-mightly Shadow Shield makes it significantly harder to kill with things that aren't named STAB boosted Dark/Ghost attacks (such as Yveltal), and the insane amount of attacks it can throw into the opponent's face is just crazy, while Dawn Wings is stuck with the poor movepool of Necrozma, and doesn't really offer much other than its signature. Even with original Necrozma's defense with that HP this thing just doesn't tank more than the original Lunala which is plain stupid. Come on GF, these two are said to be capable of boosting its freaking speed by ejecting black light from its rear boosters and they are like a chunk slower than the original? Really?

Now the good news is because you will be using Ultra Necrozma's speed instead of their base form as you transform (similar to Mega Evolution), so you will not be stuck with the 77 speed whatsoever, but the thing is Necrozma's movepool is simply lacking. Now, with the exception of Sunsteel/Moongeist, Necro can learn everything in either form just like Kyurem, but it is just so goddamned lacking on both sides. Special has better moves such as Flash Cannon and Moongeist, but it doesn't offer Swords dance-equivalent moves, and if you are running Physical you don't really have a reliable Dragon STAB, and niche things such as trying to use DM for special-based Ultra Necro will mean you are going to miss out Moongeist Beam and vice versa. Neither 4 forms of Necrozma are particularily tough to withstand a good amount of punishment so you would wanna clean the tables quick and fast.

Ultra Necrozma will not be like insanely broken as the infamous Mega Rayquaza, despite its stats are just bonkers. Despite Necrozma is quite fast and can pull out a better mixed attack style because of Photon Geyzer or just make it hard to guess, Mega Ray has 180, a tad 13 higher than both of its attacks on both sides, Mega Ray is slightly tougher in raw bulk (97/97/97 vs 105/100/100, not a huge difference but still there) and has the stupid Delta Stream which essentially is an "I win" button against something that doesn't also have stupidly powerful attacks to deal with it, while Necrozma has an in-built Expert Belt which is kinda niche despite its massive attack, and has 6 weakness which it can't deal with comfortably unless you use Dusk Mane as a sort of buffer because of its better bulk. It is also limited to its own Z-crystal (although it gives it an incredibly powerful nuke which is gonna hurt quite much), while Mega Ray can carry literally anything (except Z-crystals, but that's like not usable instead of incapable), and even Life Orb to push through everything. As the icing on the cake, Ray has extreme speed of which we all know how crazy it is combined with that 180 base attack while Necro doesn't have any equivalent moves to use.


Maybe Dusk Wings is gonna join Black Kyurem as the only legendaries with not less than 680 to OU despite doesn't have negative abilities hindering it. This guy wouldn't be impactful in Ubers because whatever that hard-counters Lunala will just as well hard counter this one, and it doesn't offer any niche that others, and even Lunala itself can pull out aside of Stones, which isn't something that even Dusk Wings can pull out comfortably. Thing is legitimately worse than Black Kyurem despite its better movepool (which honestly isn't really that great), even though it can hit like a huge truck in the face, it lacked key speed, has absolutely horrendous weakness which way too many things can abuse it with and doesn't have counterplays to deal with its counters, not to mention thing is actually amazingly fragile.

Necrozma has a larger movepool now, like Earth Power, Heat Wave, etc. And yeah if you run just full physical for Ultra Necrozma its only physical Dragon STAB is Outrage and special being only Dragon Pulse

 

[mertyville]

I wonder if the non-ultra Necrozma would even be viable with those defenses? Maybe full bulk and Trick Room to actually bypass its bad speed?

 

[Stairs Of Learning]

I'm liking the idea of both physical and special ultra necrozma actually, even though prism armor quite possibly more useful for tanking hits from the likes of gengar-mega, yveltal, etc, neuroforce is pretty dank because necrozma has so many useful coverage to choose from that it might doesn't need draco after all. I think both physical and special set have a potential to be equally viable

Necrozma-Ultra @ UltraNecroium Z (base can be dawn wings or dusk mane, unless ur using moongeist)
Ability: Neuroforce
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Photon Geyser
- Heat Wave
- Power Gem (For Yveltal and Ho-Oh) / Moongeist Beam
- Calm Mind

Necrozma-Ultra @ UltraNecroium Z
Ability: Neuroforce
EVs: 4 Def / 252 atk / 252 Spe
Jolly/Naive Nature
- Swords Dance
- Photon Geyser
- Outrage / Stone Edge / Rock Polish
- Earthquake / Heat Wave / Rock Polish

 

[TheMaskedMeowth]

Just wanted to add a couple notes I thought might be useful.

Ultra Burst pretty much functions as a Mega Evolution, with Ultranecrozium Z having the benefit of being both the Mega Stone and the Z-Crystal. You don't use up your Mega and of course you can also still Primal Revert. You can only Ultra Burst one Necrozma per battle. You can still use any Z-move you want (besides another one on Necrozma, of course) after Ultra Burst. Furthermore, Necrozma doesn't have to have Photon Geyser in order to Ultra Burst.

Can this stack with Expert Belt?

I'm sure it does, but considering you have to have an item slot in order to gain access to Neuroforce, it doesn't do Necrozma much good.

The real question:
How will ultranecrozium Z work in Mix and Mega?

For DM: +10 Atk, -30 Def, +54 SpA, -12 Def, +52 Spe
For DW: +54 Atk, -12 Def, +10 SpA, -30 SpD, +52 Spe
Both change 2nd type to Dragon, both gain ability Neuroforce

Only completely fair way I could think to do this is to have 2 different Z-Crystals on the simulator, for every other tier they work the same, but for Mix and Mega one applies DM's stat boosts, the other applies DW's boosts.

Or if you wanna go really OP, you could just do +54 Atk, -12 Def, +54 SpA, -12 SpD, +52 Spe, but that'd get banned instantly I imagine.

 

[NintendoVSPlaystation]

What tier in Ubers would Ultra Necrozma be? I know it is not ready for it to be in a tier in Ubers, but what tier do you people think it would be in Ubers ? I think B+ or A-. We will see in the future.


http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sm-ubers-viability-ranking-thread.3591388/

 

[Aurinko]

Since their creation is apparently an item-mechanic, are the items version-exclusives or can I get Dusk Mane and Dusk Wings if I already own Moon and get Ultra Sun?

 

[TenshouYoku]

Since their creation is apparently an item-mechanic, are the items version-exclusives or can I get Dusk Mane and Dusk Wings if I already own Moon and get Ultra Sun?

You will obtain both tools that enables you to combine necrozma with Solgaleo or Lunala. This is different from Kyurem as they are separate items which you can have both of them in the same team given that you transferred a Lunala and a Necrozma into your Ultra Sun file.

 

[RNGnoob]

Would having both forms on the same team break the species clause?

 

[Ropalme1914]

Would having both forms on the same team break the species clause?

Probably yes, since most likely they have the same dex number as Necrozma. Unless those formes get separated numbers, you won't be able to use both of them at the same time in Ubers.

 

[TayyibZ]

What tier in Ubers would Ultra Necrozma be? I know it is not ready for it to be in a tier in Ubers, but what tier do you people think it would be in Ubers ? I think B+ or A-. We will see in the future.


http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sm-ubers-viability-ranking-thread.3591388/

Why dude? With 167 Special and Physical and 129 speed, I don't think it's going to be so low. Ok, maybe it's defences are weak, but it's not like there are many things to revenge-kill it. UN may be one point shy of Mega-Gengar's speed, but the stats only come in the turn after it mega-evolves, while the transformation from DM or DW comes in the turn you transform. Even unboosted, Mega Gengar will easily be OHKO'ed by a Neuroforce and Stab boosted Photon Geyser.

 

[TenshouYoku]

Why dude? With 167 Special and Physical and 129 speed, I don't think it's going to be so low. Ok, maybe it's defences are weak, but it's not like there are many things to revenge-kill it. UN may be one point shy of Mega-Gengar's speed, but the stats only come in the turn after it mega-evolves, while the transformation from DM or DW comes in the turn you transform. Even unboosted, Mega Gengar will easily be OHKO'ed by a Neuroforce and Stab boosted Photon Geyser.

That offensive stat is pretty insane, sure, but this thing is actually not as tough as vanilla Necrozma due to it being both BST wise and ability wise less resistant. Way too many thing is gonna heavy block it or take a hit and heavily cripple if not outright decommission UN outside of Mega Gengar.
- Yveltal can easily block Photon Geyser and the Z move, then proceed to dent it real hard with an ability boosted Sucker Punch or Dark Pulse that pretty much hits like a truck (and OHKO if it has life orb). Neither DW and DM are good answers without a rock type move, and even if you do Necrozma isn't going to take the all-time must have Sucker Punch very lightly because it doesn't have a priority. What's worse is Stone Edge does not OHKO unless stones are laid, but come on who will lay Stones with this guy.
- Bisharp works similarly except it hard walls both STAB options from Necrozma bar Earthquake or brick break/Earth power (which will OHKO regardless of nature) although it doesn't OHKO either.
-Geomancy boosted Xerneas blocks dragon type stuff and wouldn't take a lot from psychic attacks, which will then proceed to blow it away with Moonblast, it will survive getting hit by Sunsteel Strike as well (although being heavily dented in the meantime).
-Dialga and Solgaleo checks its STABs. Dialga can stomach Earth Power and Earthquake and revenge with Drago Meter that has 75% chance to OHKO, so does Solgaleo which can also actually stomach Moongeist Beam in addition (much to my surprise). Solgaleo doesn't have much to take down Necrozma, however.
-Lunala which can survive quite easily and blast it with Moongeist Beam. Mind you, assuming both maximum power possible (252+) neither Shadow Claw nor Moongeist Beam can get through Lunala one-shot, although neither could Lunala.

Sure nobody ain't gonna take a mega nuke named Light That Burns The Sky without a scratch (apart from dark types) but a lot of things can still give a run of its money.
And what's the point of your argument anyway? mega also gives the speed stats immediately this gen just like Necrozma unlike XY. Mega Gengar will still out speed Necrozma assuming they transform the same time.

 

[Jibaku]

Megas get their Speed changes on the turn it Mega Evolves.

The more I look at Ultranecro the less impressed I get due to its mediocre STAB options and meh ability, along with being forced to Burst before being able to Z move. I think the Speed boost and typing change (+ base forme mindgames) are still huge things but I don't think Ultranecro going to be super groundbreaking.

 

[NintendoVSPlaystation]

Why dude? With 167 Special and Physical and 129 speed, I don't think it's going to be so low. Ok, maybe it's defences are weak, but it's not like there are many things to revenge-kill it. UN may be one point shy of Mega-Gengar's speed, but the stats only come in the turn after it mega-evolves, while the transformation from DM or DW comes in the turn you transform. Even unboosted, Mega Gengar will easily be OHKO'ed by a Neuroforce and Stab boosted Photon Geyser.

Good point. I did change my mind and I do think Ultra Necrozma could be in A-, A, A+, or even S. One of those tiers is fine by me. I had to check this thing over. Good point! A Timid Mega Gengar automatically out speeds Ultra Necrozma ( Unless Mega Gengar swaps in and Ultra Necrozma uses something to boost it's speed ) and could KO it with a super effective Shadow Ball. Good observation though! I do think I am foolish for saying it would be in B+ tier, I mean it has some insane stats and a nice move pool! Though it could end up in B+ tier or lower if it is not used much.

Ultra Necrozma will not be like insanely broken as the infamous Mega Rayquaza, despite its stats are just bonkers. Despite Necrozma is quite fast and can pull out a better mixed attack style because of Photon Geyzer or just make it hard to guess, Mega Ray has 180, a tad 13 higher than both of its attacks on both sides, Mega Ray is slightly tougher in raw bulk (97/97/97 vs 105/100/100, not a huge difference but still there) and has the stupid Delta Stream which essentially is an "I win" button against something that doesn't also have stupidly powerful attacks to deal with it, while Necrozma has an in-built Expert Belt which is kinda niche despite its massive attack, and has 6 weakness which it can't deal with comfortably unless you use Dusk Mane as a sort of buffer because of its better bulk. It is also limited to its own Z-crystal (although it gives it an incredibly powerful nuke which is gonna hurt quite much), while Mega Ray can carry literally anything (except Z-crystals, but that's like not usable instead of incapable), and even Life Orb to push through everything. As the icing on the cake, Ray has extreme speed of which we all know how crazy it is combined with that 180 base attack while Necro doesn't have any equivalent moves to use.

I hear people saying it should be in AG. It has a potential to be in S tier I imagine in Ubers. But not in AG.

I really dislike how people are criticizing Ultra Necrozma and saying it has no potential to be a very strong Pokemon. Ultra Necrozma may have six weaknesses and it loses to Mega Gengar most of the time it seems like, but I feel like it's strengths easily outweigh it's weaknesses. Ultra Necrozma hits like a tank! It deserves to be in S tier in Ubers!

By the way, Ultra Necrozma can learn amazing moves like Rock Polish, Swords Dance, and Calm Mind!

I did a few calculations with this Pokemon and here are my results.
Please tell me if I am inaccurate with my calculations. I am really sorry if I messed up.
( Had to use an Expert Belt for it's ability and a custom Necrozma to make Ultra Necrozma)


252 Atk Ultra Necrozma Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 362-427 (71.8 - 84.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Ultra Necrozma Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 338-398 (111.1 - 130.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Ultra Necrozma Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Celesteela: 216-254 (54.2 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 SpA Ultra Necrozma Power Gem vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Yveltal: 276-326 (60.5 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Ultra Necrozma Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Groudon-Primal: 355-420 (87.8 - 103.9%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Ultra Necrozma Sunsteel Strike vs. +1 252 HP / 4 Def Xerneas: 482-569 (105.7 - 124.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Ultra Necrozma Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dialga: 439-518 (108.6 - 128.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Ultra Necrozma Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Ground: 405-477 (106.2 - 125.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Ultra Necrozma Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Salamence-Mega: 454-535 (115.2 - 135.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Ultra Necrozma Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde-Complete: 713-842 (112.1 - 132.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 SpA Ultra Necrozma Moongeist Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Shadow Shield Lunala: 446-526 (107.4 - 126.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ SpA Ultra Necrozma Power Gem vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ho-Oh: 442-523 (106.2 - 125.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Ultra Necrozma Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Yveltal on a critical hit: 494-583 (108.3 - 127.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO



And do not get me even started on what Light That Burns The Sky can do to many other pokemon in the Uber tier. These were just some examples. I know some of these require set - ups, and it's defenses are below average, but if the opponent swaps, it could use something like Swords Dance! All though I disagree with Ultra Necrozma going into Anything Goes.



I am fine with A-, A, A+, or S tier in Ubers for Ultra Necrozma.
I think Ultra Necrozma deserves a spot in the S tier in Ubers! ( When Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon are developed and ready to make the Uber tier lists). OU will probably be the same.

( EDIT: S tier may be an overreaction but any rank in Ubers at B tier through S rank is fine by me. ( B, B+, A-, A, A+, S )

 

[TenshouYoku]

I really dislike how people are criticizing Ultra Necrozma and saying it has no potential to be a very strong Pokemon. Ultra Necrozma may have six weaknesses and it loses to Mega Gengar most of the time it seems like, but I feel like it's strengths easily outweigh it's weaknesses. Ultra Necrozma hits like a tank! It deserves to be in S tier in Ubers!

By the way, Ultra Necrozma can learn amazing moves like Rock Polish, Swords Dance, and Calm Mind!

I did a few calculations with this Pokemon and here are my results.
Please tell me if I am inaccurate with my calculations. I am really sorry if I messed up.
( Had to use an Expert Belt for it's ability and a custom Necrozma to make Ultra Necrozma)


252 Atk Ultra Necrozma Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 362-427 (71.8 - 84.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Ultra Necrozma Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 338-398 (111.1 - 130.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Ultra Necrozma Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Celesteela: 216-254 (54.2 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 SpA Ultra Necrozma Power Gem vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Yveltal: 276-326 (60.5 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Ultra Necrozma Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Groudon-Primal: 355-420 (87.8 - 103.9%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Ultra Necrozma Iron Head vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 386-456 (98.2 - 116%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Ultra Necrozma Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dialga: 439-518 (108.6 - 128.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Ultra Necrozma Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Ground: 405-477 (106.2 - 125.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Ultra Necrozma Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Salamence-Mega: 454-535 (115.2 - 135.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Ultra Necrozma Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde-Complete: 713-842 (112.1 - 132.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 SpA Ultra Necrozma Moongeist Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Shadow Shield Lunala: 446-526 (107.4 - 126.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Ultra Necrozma Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Yveltal on a critical hit: 494-583 (108.3 - 127.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

And do not get me even started on what Light That Burns The Sky can do to many other pokemon in the Uber tier. These were just some examples. I know some of these require set - ups, and it's defenses are below average, but if the opponent swaps, it could use something like Swords Dance! All though I disagree with Ultra Necrozma going into Anything Goes.


I think Ultra Necrozma deserves a spot in the S tier in Ubers! ( When Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon are developed and ready to make the Uber tier lists). OU will probably be the same.

These stats are assuming you have the chance to setup as you described yourself, and I really doubt if Necrozma does have the leisure and time to setup for so much. Without a boost have fun trying OHKO most stuff youve listed on it because most of the time it will do around 90 sth at best and just simply doesn't OHKO.
Generic 3 attack+Swords dance or calm mind will mean that you are gonna miss out something such as either a rock/ground coverage which is crucial for countering Yveltal/Steel types that is gonna no-sell the STAB and somehow doesn't suffer a lot from Sunsteel/Moongeist otherwise, and this guys still doesn't stay long in front of Arceus Dark that has Judgement and Espeed as well as Gengar. Assuming a critical will land on Yveltal, a great threat to this guy is also not a really good idea because it's not like it will always land as you need it (even though it has a higher chance), and you just can't OHKO otherwise even with Expert Belt (substituting Neuroforce), and it can dent you really really hard with Sucker Punch which you can't just hand waive it as situational.

 

[Siggu]

Since Ultra Necrozma cannot carry anything but a Z-Crystal, it's much worse than it seemed at first. Base 167 offenses sound really cool but they are nothing special in Ubers when essentially itemless, and Necrozma would have to cope with underwhelming STAB moves.

My guess... it will rely on its Speed.

 

[Jibaku]

Alright I've decided to be a masochist and attempt to work the loser of all this, Necrozma-DW. I guess you can use it to pass Moongeist onto Ultra, or fake a special set then Swords Dance + Ultra (you'd be really desperate to do this), but I'm gonna talk about the vanilla forme. Basically it has approximately two things over Lunala - Rock Polish and Stealth Rock. Rock Polish may be a tall order due to its lack of coverage and vulnerability to SSneak/Sucker, but Stealth Rock might get us somewhere...

Necrozma-DW @ Lunalium-Z
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Calm Mind
- Moongeist Beam
- Power Gem / Psyshock / filler??

Necrozma-DW has a matchup advantage against every anti-hazard Pokemon except for Defog Arceus-Dark and possibly Yveltal. Being part Ghost also enables it to block Rapid Spin (you might want to consider running more phys bulk to not get 2HKOed by Excadrill EQ maybe?), although that'd more relevant a few generations ago. Calm Mind makes it possible for Necrozma-DW to blast through bulkier threats such as Ho-Oh, Primal Kyogre, and various support Arceus formes. You probably won't get a lot of set up turns but it makes sure your opponent can't play passively. Last slot is kinda filler bc I don't really know what to put in there. Power Gem's your best bet at hitting Yveltal (and Ho-Oh w/o Z moving it) while Psyshock's for blobs I guess.

Additionally, Necrozma-DW has a positive matchup vs some bulky SR setters such as Primal Groudon, Dialga, and Arceus-Fairy. Hit X if you face a TTar though.

Oh as a bonus it checks Necrozma-Ultra to an extent

EVs are pretty arbitrary but I'm sure there's room to give it actual modifications

Some calcs:

252+ SpA Necrozma-DW Moongeist Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Giratina-O: 410-486 (92.9 - 110.2%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Necrozma-DW Menacing Moonraze Maelstrom vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Dialga: 414-487 (102.4 - 120.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Necrozma-DW Menacing Moonraze Maelstrom vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Neutral: 354-417 (79.7 - 93.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (just CM. Also does roughly the same to max/max+ Primal Groudon)
252+ SpA Necrozma-DW Menacing Moonraze Maelstrom vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Salamence: 451-532 (114.4 - 135%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Necrozma-DW Menacing Moonraze Maelstrom vs. 248 HP / 44 SpD Celesteela: 391-462 (98.4 - 116.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Necrozma-DW Menacing Moonraze Maelstrom vs. 252 HP / 232+ SpD Mega Sableye: 274-324 (90.1 - 106.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
(don't worry Foul Play doesn't OHKO you)
+1 252+ SpA Necrozma-DW Menacing Moonraze Maelstrom vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ho-Oh: 424-501 (101.9 - 120.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

In other words if you don't have a Ghost resist this mon can probably set up rocks and punch holes. It can get hardcountered pretty easily with certain tools but otherwise you might actually have to respect it. That said its lack of a defensive typing will make it awkward to fit into teams.