SS OU Need help with Sticky Web OU team


Lycanroc-Midnight @ Choice Band
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Fire Punch
- Play Rough
- Sucker Punch
LYCANROC. IS SHIT QUITE BAD
That’s probably the shortest summary I can come up with in the 5 or so times I’ve rewritten this paragraph, but then again, it’s not like this is actually news. My original intention was to augment the small redeeming quality it had in its ability, by making up for its lack of speed using the stage hazards, and turning it into a revenge killer/late-game sweeper using its access to a 100% accurate Stone Edge. Went with Stone Edge for Stone Edge. Fire Punch for coverage, since Stomping Tantrum does the same damage to Pex as Stone Edge, and FP seems like it'll cover the tier better from what I've seen. Play Rough to threaten things such as Dragapult with web. And Sucker Punch to threaten things such as Dragapult withOUT web. How much has this worked? Well how many Ferrothorn have you seen in your life? Exactly. To be fair, it hasn’t necessarily been bad, it’s just that, for everything that it lacks, it doesn’t offer enough to make up for it; it’s not fast enough to threaten the things that matter most, it’s weaker than its dusk counterpart, and it also has pretty much the same movepool as both the other forms, arguably worse, and those are in UU. It’s considered a niche pick in PU, not really much else to add. It’s sad, because I very much want to use this cunt but it’s just not really that great. This is the one I’m currently looking to replace



Orbeetle @ Focus Sash
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 172 HP / 196 Def / 140 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sticky Web
- Light Screen
- Magic Coat
- Bug Buzz
Orbeetle is the closest thing to a soul the team has, if said soul helped give you life as much as the people at schools who hang "this is a no bullying zone" signs help stop bullying in schools. The only reason it's here is because the number of decent pokemon who can learn Sticky Web is so small that it'd make SoundCloud rappers seem like a legitimate music industry, let alone be enough to offer variety, but also because its movepool seems like it'd be able to offer potential for some pretty interesting sets, even if the current one doesn't do that idea any favors. I don't feel like I need to go into depth about the idea behind the set and spread for this one; I just slapped support moves that I thought would be useful on it, tried to make it decently bulky and moved on. The only thing to note here is Sticky Web, which serves as the single unifying point of the entire team, making it so that pokemon like Lycanroc can fill in certain roles without having to cripple themselves in another regard, or even be able to emphasize said role without having to worry about dying before being able to get anything off due to their lackluster speed. I don't really think this one is super bad or anything, I just don't know how to make good use of it, so any set ideas would be appreciated, if there is any chance that this could offer more than the other Sticky Webbers(?) out there


Chandelure @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Substitute
- Energy Ball
Chandelure is the chad that virgin Dragapult tried to copy the style of, but only made himself look like a loser in doing so; beefy Sp.Atk, ghost typing that allows spin-blocking, great abilities that help ensure someone is getting sent to the Shadow Realm when it gets in, but unlike Drag, Chad has the class necessary to do so convincingly. Easily the MVP of the team, Chandelure beautifully fits the slot of special sweeper, always managing to put some sort of dent in the game-state, either by just merely existing on the field, or putting a dent in the opponent's skull if they didn't quite catch the memo when the former situation was presented to them. Went with Shadow Ball and Fire Blast for STAB. Energy Ball for coverage. And Substitute to take advantage of both the commonly known choice sets that Chandelure are assumed to have, and the sheer dread the presence of a healthy Chandelure instills on anyone with a will to live, both of which present a great opportunity for setup in the form of a defensive switch.
Chandelure is the Boogeyman of SD; nobody ever really believes he'll show his face in ladder whenever they press that battle button, until he's knocking at their door with his base .145 ready to take their lunch money. Every time I get the chance to switch Chandelure in safely, it means one of two things: It's there to sweep the entirety of the opponent's team, or it's only there to take the finishing blow after its teammates failed to stop the opponent from setting up. It's wonderful really, I don't have any bad things to say about him. 3 generations of showing off its power to build the reputation that Dragapult never earned fuckyoudragapult BUT THE POINT IS, Chandelure's terrible; use 7 of them



Tyranitar @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 28 Atk / 192 Def / 224 SpA / 64 SpD
Quiet Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Earthquake
- Flamethrower
- Stone Edge
FAT CUNT
Is the easiest way I think one could describe Tyranitar, so easy in fact that it's how we're gonna have to refer to him from now on.
My intention was for Fat Cunt to single handedly cover up the many gaping holes the team had from getting tossed around like hot potato in the tier, by just sitting in front of it all. I've never used a Fat Cunt in a team before, nor really any OU picks, but now that I have, it's honestly offensive how much this cunt accomplishes by simply existing while doing everything it does. I feel like I can hear it listing off what it has to offer as soon as I throw it on the field: "A-aw jeez! You caught me off guard there! I was just finishing scrubbing your shoes! So what will it be? Sand Rush? I can eat a Psyshock if you want, maybe even something else? I do get boosted when I switch in after all. Coverage? Chip damage? Car wash? Foreskin cleanse? Dinner?"
Is this what OU feels like? Anyway. The problem with Fat Cunt is that, for everything it does, I don't feel like it synergizes with the rest of the team enough to give any sort of push; it offers some pretty good defensive elements, being resistant to both Hydreigon's Dark Pulse and Dragapult's Shadow Ball, but it doesn't really help the other members gain any sort of momentum, it's not worth using an offence-based spread over the current one, and the sandstorm actually works against members like Chandelure. The only thing it helps with is giving Lycanroc more damage on its Stone Edge, but that's not really saying anything considering what we've previously established in regards to him. For the set, I went with a mix of the usual: Stone Edge and Dark Pulse for STAB. And Earthquake and Flamethrower for coverage. The spread is also pretty mixed: No Hp investment, since I think 340+ Hp is good enough to wall. Just enough Atk and Sp.Atk to go over 310. Enough Def to go over the 300's. And just enough Sp.Def to get a good boost from the sandstorm. I can't believe I'm calling a pokemon with 5 out of its 6 stats over 300 bad, but yeah Fat Cunt is one of the ones I'm looking to replace



Rotom-Mow @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 76 HP / 40 SpA / 140 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Trick
- Leaf Storm
There's not much to be said about Rotom that you don't already know. It's good, it's versatile, offers decent protection and good momentum. It's a Rotom appliance, what is there to say. The set is just the usual: Thunderbolt, Volt Switch and Leaf Storm for STAB and momentum. And Trick for shutdown of things like walls and setup mons. For the Spread, I went with 252 Spe, as usual. 140 in Sp.Def, to make it more capable of aiding with things like Magearna's Volt Switches. Just enough Sp.Atk to get a good boost from the Specs it holds. And just a little bit of Hp to give it a slightly lesser chance to be ohko'd. I think this spread is the one that's been the most efficient on this dude. I'm considering putting the 140 Sp.Def points in Def so it can deal a bit better with things like Urshifu, but for now I think this works perfectly fine; it offers some valuable neutral game potential, which the team greatly appreciates, and it also offers some momentum that the team desperately needs. Good mon, good games





Uh, what's the deal with airline food…(?)



Mantine @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tailwind
- Scald
- Roost
- Haze
Segways are weird
Surprisingly still here after the purge, Mantine is something that I feel makes for a valuable asset to the team; the susceptibility to Earthquake that members like Chandelure suffer from is dealt with by its Flying-type, its ability assists with the fragility to threats such as Urshifu, the bulk it provides is always welcome on any team, and its access to Tailwind provides some much needed momentum and flexibility that aid the team with its lack of neutral game potential. Went with Tailwind, since if you can't beat the high speed pokemon, join 'em. Scald for that 30% chance to get the C in its name removed and the D replaced with a T, which is always wonderful, especially if it manages to land on something that cares about its Atk. Roost for the preservation of the elements it provides. And "Haha, X go brr", the move.
I'm considering running Defog instead of Haze, since Stealth Rocks are just always such a wonderful thing to have tickling your colon any time you even think of existing near the field, especially if you're a Flying-type like Mantine, but I'm not really sure if that'd do more good than harm, considering just how much the team is reliant on Sticky Web being in play, so for now, this is what we've got



I think it's pretty clear that I'm nowhere near a competitive player, but hey I'm trying alright.
To give an overall closing opinion on the team:
I don't think it's terrible; my lack of overall knowledge is definitely noticeable when looking at things like the entirety of Orbeetle's set, or really the entirety of the team, but I don't think it's some sort of failure; just a flawed attempt at using a niche strategy. Though I think that there is a severe flaw with the overall structure of the team which is probably very noticeable: The lack of speed present in every single member, which makes it so that there is a complete lack of footing to create any sort of momentum if the Sticky Web doesn't create enough to fill in that gap, making it so that if the opponent doesn't get crippled enough by it, or if they don't get crippled at all, the entire team is automatically put in a disadvantageous position which they then have to go through hell and back to work around, when such a situation would normally just be considered the neutral game for any regular team. If the opponent isn't at a disadvantage, you automatically are, and since the 'mons are so focused on having that advantage over the opponent, and therefore don't have any speed themselves, they end up having to put blood sweat and tears into obtaining that advantage again just to re-establish common ground, making it so that if the opponent has a way to get around the hazard, or just has enough options to make up for the lost speed, it becomes nearly impossible to establish common ground without losing at least one pokemon. And as such, the greatest flaw of the team, at least in my eyes, is that it js too focused on using bad pokemon to try and drag good pokemon down enough to be able to fight at an equal level, as opposed to, for an example, using pokemon who could be able to affect the game state better than meta pokemon, but are held back by their speed, and using Sticky Web to allow them to fulfill that goal without the need of things like choice scarf, which ties into my next point.

Synergy:
One thing that I think is important to understand regarding teambuilding, that I'm definitely trying to wrap my head around is synergy; what makes a pokemon like Chandelure be able to shit & piss & cum everywhere in OU when coupled with this strategy, but not Lycanroc? Maybe the fact that it's a pokemon who is already amazing without any certain strategy, being one who offers as much offensive potential as meta pokemon, but when its balancing element is bypassed with the help of a niche hazard it becomes as strong, if not stronger than standard competitive picks, without the need of crippling itself to achieve such a feat? Maybe, but what exactly makes it a pokemon that couples well with this strategy? And how can I figure out how to apply that to the process of team building? I'm still kind of lost on that, the only clue I have is one I took away from Yu-Gi-Oh deck building; good cards are those which affect the game-state enough to make up for the cost of using them

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A couple of threats that the team just get absolutely destroyed by include:

Rillaboom, since the only pokemon that resist it barely have any defensive utility

Clear Body Dragapult, which just ignores Sticky Web entirely, and deals with pretty much everyone on the team

Hydreigon, for the same reasons as Dragapult

and Chansey, since the only pokemon that can threaten it is extremely fragile
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By the way, if you didn't notice, I'm trying to use less viable pokemon to compete with OU, so if you could kinda try to go along with that, it'd be appreciated

Not anything against using meta, don't agree with people who try to denounce others for doing so either, just prefer to use underrated and less viable pokemon since I find it more fun



Oh yeah, here:

Pokepaste:
https://pokepast.es/e7aa6b93f99466bc
 
Last edited:
:Bisharp: > :Tyranitar:
Bisharp must go in a sticky web team. It's essential because if your opponent use defog on a bisharp you have a free boost (defiant) and you can easily sweep the opponent team.
 
HELLO MR JOLTZY,

Interesting team you have here and from what I gather you are looking to make Orbeetle work, replace midnight doggy, you dislike the fat cunt too so I'll make some suggestions based off this as well as the weaknesses of the team and archetype vs the general metagame.

Webs archetypes currently struggle massively with the prevalence of boots, priority, and the pretty unrelenting usage of excadrill or mandibuzz at the moment. The idea behind other webs leads is that they can offer utility in guaranteeing setups or pivoting out which Orbeetle does not. Ribombee has utility in the stun spore or trick scarf while being allowed pivot, shuckle has access to rocks, encore, and final gambit if you so please. The moves Orbeetle has that would likely provide it a niche as a lead would be magic coat (which you already have!), mirror coat, and hypnosis. I would suggest running Hypnosis over light screen here to possibly prevent defogs or sleep the opposing team if they attempt to play around vs you. Changing the ev spread on this to just max speed is also more ideal. It has base 90 speed allowing it to outspeed up to the Rillabooms of the world and even excadrills. If this set change does not help your only other option would be to run a bulkier recover set but defensive utility wise its not all that great and it doesnt really make too much sense on an offense team.

Orbeetle @ Focus Sash
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sticky Web
- Hypnosis
- Magic Coat
- Bug Buzz

I personally love the concept of Chandelure on webs as it can act as a very good stall break and I realise this pokemon is probably the best aspect of the team so lets keep this but make it Substitute>Energy Ball. This will allow you to pressure bulkier matchups much more, avoid sucker punch shenanigans vs choice locked pandas or cinderaces and just overall do more for you than Energy Ball which wont hit much outside Tyranitar which isnt very prevalent. I also do not think this team requires Timid for anything and Modest is significantly stronger. Under webs you outspeed all the relevant pokemon anyways due to most Zera or Pult running a +Atk/Spatk nature or boots so unless that changes any time soon I'd prefer Modest.

Chandelure @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Substitute
- Calm Mind

The issue I take with the Lycanroc and Tyranitar core is that in all honesty I just dont see what they offer towards the play style outside beating boots Volcarona but they tend to be outclassed as pokemon in this type of team in general so lets try change these for the better. The idea behind any changes of these two would be to continue to cover the relevant threats but we also want to synergise with Chandelures breaking potential vs fat teams. Chandelure in theory can break Clefable Blissey balances, Opposing sun teams, will force in and KO alot of Mandibuzz cores at an opportunity cost of either losing webs or remaining behind a sub most of the time so this is a great start. What I would like to propose is adding an Urshifu to take advantage of Sub Calm Mind Chandies presence and breaking ability while adding in the added bonus of breaking down every defensive structure in the game when running a bulk up set if you chip clefable. It also will maintain the offensive presence on the team while adding additional priority which will be lost when losing lycanroc.

Urshifu @ Life Orb
Ability: Unseen Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bulk Up
- Wicked Blow
- Close Combat
- Sucker Punch

To alleviate the issue of their being no rocks, needing a genuine way of chipping/beating boots Cinderace or Zera i recommend adding in a defensive Kommo. By making it special you can still damage opposing cinderaces even if they just decide to Zen you, taunt defoggers, and have fire coverage for any steels who want to switch in. A lure set with papaya and rock slide would also work to check Volcarona/Cinder if you would like but that would require testing as losing helmet chip could be frustrating vs u-turn spam.

Kommo-o @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Stealth Rock
- Flamethrower
- Taunt

So thats what you wanted changed and those are my suggestions. I also believe you should replace Mantine as it doesn't fit with the structure of this kind of team and just slows you down. Personally I would make it a Sub Dragon Dance Dragapult to offensively check Cinder and Volcarona while taking advantage of your breakers too.

Dragapult @ Leftovers
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Darts
- Phantom Force

Rotom is fine but will be largely outclassed by Rillaboom here so if you wanna run CB Rillaboom over it I would strongly support this but I dont want to change too much without letting you test out the team for yourself and see if you like the changes. A note on the evs however, it seems you are'nt really considering what the ev's do and are rather just hitting numbers that look like nice in the builder which a very flawed concept. Unless ev's are serving a specific purpose they can be better optimised to increase power, speed, or even a specific bulk point. So I would just make it max spatk and max speed. Specs might be outclassed by scarf if you wanna actively check more boots mons or even Nasty Plot offensively so id test that but for now I'll leave as is for you to test. This version is quite weak to opposing dragapult so realistically dropping Orbeetle for a shuckle and freeing up the kommo slot or replacing rotom mow are your best options to fix this

As far as your synergy question goes, when your building a team you should always have a specific goal in mind. With the changes I have suggested the idea would be for one of Pult/Panda/Chandy to break the opposing defensive cores for the other to sweep through while also providing an insane amount of pressure onto your opponent to dissuade a possible defog happening. You clearly understand the flaws here but your overall goal seems to get muddled along the way as you run pokemon that arent really suitable to what should be a hyper offensive style. This is why Chandelure is so good but lycanroc might seem underwhelming. Chandelures an excellent breaker whereas a choice banded lycanroc is not, and neither of them break each others counters or overwhelm the same switch in which would be the goal of the team with changes. If you would like to specifically make something like lycanroc work in future, identify its specific niche, focus on how that will function in practice, decide the team archetype direction i.e. webs/offense/balance, and then test till you can make it work. If you need any further help or want to change any specific aspects outside what I suggested feel free to post here again or dm me. Here is a pokepaste of the team with changes suggested. Kinda weak to Togekiss but I dont know how to solve that really lol. Dont get flinched n_n

https://pokepast.es/87cd1b20806419e4
 
Last edited:

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top