So after Garm got the chop, I decided to get into the meta by abusing Dracovish as much as possible. So I built a balance team with the intention of giving Vish as many free switch-ins as possible. It's started pretty well, but I can already see even in low ladder several mons giving me a bunch of issues. So I decided to see if some more experienced players can take a look at the team and see any massive holes, and some better ways of dealing with the problem mons.
@ Choice Band
Ability: Strong Jaw
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fishious Rend
- Psychic Fangs
- Crunch
- Outrage
Banded Vish for maximum damage, ensuring almost every time it comes in it gets a KO. Turns out even people in the 1100s have worked out you need a water immunity to not auto-lose to this thing though, so I'm having to get used to dealing with Gastrodon lol. I didn't like Outrage because it let Ditto revenge me way too easy, but I lost a couple of Vish mirrors to not having it. With Ditto on the down, Outrage looks way safer. The rest is standard at this point I think.
@ Leftovers
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Tailwind
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Roost
And because Banded Rend clearly does not hit enough already, a rain setter. The main idea behind this set is to Tailwind then U-turn into Vish, as double speed Vish in the rain is totally not OP. Knock Off gets rid of Leftovers on Corvs etc and Eviolite on the occasional Corsola-G. Roost and his own Lefties keeps him healthy to set rain as many times as possible. No Damp Rock because I only need 4 turns of rain to go with 4 turns of Tailwind. Relaxed nature (along with 0 speed IVs if I wasn't stupid lol) lets Pelipper's U-turn be as slow as possible, even with Tailwind behind him, so Dracovish doesn't have to eat attacks on the switch-in. This build lets you underspeed fully invested mons with 87 base speed or more in a Tailwind, while tying with Timid Rotom forms (not that you would send Pelipper into them anyway). 0 speed IVs take that down to Tyranitar's base 61 being faster against the Tailwind when fully invested. Is this a good idea? Do I need Hurricane or Scald?
@ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 240 SpD / 16 Spe
Careful Nature
- Iron Defense
- Body Press
- Defog
- Roost
I needed a Defogger so Pelipper didn't have to eat Rocks every time it came in. Corv is the best Defogger in the tier. This set could use a lot of work tbh. I think Iron Defense/Body Press is a decent alternative to the usual Bulk Up/Brave Bird, as it comes without recoil and ID lets it boost up to check physical attackers and deal damage faster. It also makes defence investment far less important. Having room for Defog on an offensive set is nice, but do you think I should commit one way or the other? The set is offensively total dead weight against Ghosts and fat things that resist BP like Pex, but Defog at least means Pex can't just throw down hazards for free. The speed EVs don't hit any real benchmark, just there for other creeping corvs. Should I add a couple more to creep base 70s, or forget it and just max on SpDef?
@ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip
- Spikes
- Protect
Ferro is the primary check to opposing Fairies and Rain abusers, being pretty standard on Rain teams. While I'm missing Gyro Ball, I love having Protect on Ferro. Since it's totally reliant on passive regen, having that extra turn to catch a breather is huge, and also allows it to scout for fire coverage, which then may give Pelipper an opportunity to set Rain. Physically defensive was how I originally thought would make sense, but should I go special to intercept things like Dracopult and Clefable? I ask because those are two mons that have given me issues, but they usually carry fire coverage. Also, Power Whip is great at dealing with Vish's checks, but it usually just forces them out rather than actually dealing with them. Would Gyro Ball as a single attack make more sense?
@ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Thunderbolt
- Fire Blast
- Moonlight
LO 3 attacks Clefable is the secondary breaker for the team, and also the Dragon switch-in (you can see I'm still paranoid about Ditto Outrage). I think this is the standard set, but I saw that Clefable gets Shadow Ball, which would let it deal with Ghosts better. Worth it or nah? Also, is there any speed benchmark I should be hitting?
@ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Scald
- Earthquake
I tried Excadrill in this slot, but I concluded I needed a Rock setter with longevity. Then I remembered I needed a Rend immunity too. Then I added Toad. It's done great things thusfar, even when tricked with a Scarf you just click Toxic/Scald until you get forced out. Ez. People have seen Pelipper and concluded it's Swift Swim even when it sets rocks. Pretty standard set (though I just went with suggested EVs from the Dex and they might be wrong). Toxic also works well with Ferro's Protect and Corv, letting letting them stall attackers out. Walls Rotom forms (except Mow obviously). Does the negative speed matter?
So overall, I think the team has a solid core, with lots of room for improvement. Should I go for a more dedicated Rain build? And what better ways would you suggest to check Clefable and Dracopult? Are there any other mons who threaten the team I'm unprepared for? Thanks in advance.
@ Choice Band
Ability: Strong Jaw
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fishious Rend
- Psychic Fangs
- Crunch
- Outrage
Banded Vish for maximum damage, ensuring almost every time it comes in it gets a KO. Turns out even people in the 1100s have worked out you need a water immunity to not auto-lose to this thing though, so I'm having to get used to dealing with Gastrodon lol. I didn't like Outrage because it let Ditto revenge me way too easy, but I lost a couple of Vish mirrors to not having it. With Ditto on the down, Outrage looks way safer. The rest is standard at this point I think.
@ Leftovers
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Tailwind
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Roost
And because Banded Rend clearly does not hit enough already, a rain setter. The main idea behind this set is to Tailwind then U-turn into Vish, as double speed Vish in the rain is totally not OP. Knock Off gets rid of Leftovers on Corvs etc and Eviolite on the occasional Corsola-G. Roost and his own Lefties keeps him healthy to set rain as many times as possible. No Damp Rock because I only need 4 turns of rain to go with 4 turns of Tailwind. Relaxed nature (along with 0 speed IVs if I wasn't stupid lol) lets Pelipper's U-turn be as slow as possible, even with Tailwind behind him, so Dracovish doesn't have to eat attacks on the switch-in. This build lets you underspeed fully invested mons with 87 base speed or more in a Tailwind, while tying with Timid Rotom forms (not that you would send Pelipper into them anyway). 0 speed IVs take that down to Tyranitar's base 61 being faster against the Tailwind when fully invested. Is this a good idea? Do I need Hurricane or Scald?
@ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 240 SpD / 16 Spe
Careful Nature
- Iron Defense
- Body Press
- Defog
- Roost
I needed a Defogger so Pelipper didn't have to eat Rocks every time it came in. Corv is the best Defogger in the tier. This set could use a lot of work tbh. I think Iron Defense/Body Press is a decent alternative to the usual Bulk Up/Brave Bird, as it comes without recoil and ID lets it boost up to check physical attackers and deal damage faster. It also makes defence investment far less important. Having room for Defog on an offensive set is nice, but do you think I should commit one way or the other? The set is offensively total dead weight against Ghosts and fat things that resist BP like Pex, but Defog at least means Pex can't just throw down hazards for free. The speed EVs don't hit any real benchmark, just there for other creeping corvs. Should I add a couple more to creep base 70s, or forget it and just max on SpDef?
@ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip
- Spikes
- Protect
Ferro is the primary check to opposing Fairies and Rain abusers, being pretty standard on Rain teams. While I'm missing Gyro Ball, I love having Protect on Ferro. Since it's totally reliant on passive regen, having that extra turn to catch a breather is huge, and also allows it to scout for fire coverage, which then may give Pelipper an opportunity to set Rain. Physically defensive was how I originally thought would make sense, but should I go special to intercept things like Dracopult and Clefable? I ask because those are two mons that have given me issues, but they usually carry fire coverage. Also, Power Whip is great at dealing with Vish's checks, but it usually just forces them out rather than actually dealing with them. Would Gyro Ball as a single attack make more sense?
@ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Thunderbolt
- Fire Blast
- Moonlight
LO 3 attacks Clefable is the secondary breaker for the team, and also the Dragon switch-in (you can see I'm still paranoid about Ditto Outrage). I think this is the standard set, but I saw that Clefable gets Shadow Ball, which would let it deal with Ghosts better. Worth it or nah? Also, is there any speed benchmark I should be hitting?
@ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Scald
- Earthquake
I tried Excadrill in this slot, but I concluded I needed a Rock setter with longevity. Then I remembered I needed a Rend immunity too. Then I added Toad. It's done great things thusfar, even when tricked with a Scarf you just click Toxic/Scald until you get forced out. Ez. People have seen Pelipper and concluded it's Swift Swim even when it sets rocks. Pretty standard set (though I just went with suggested EVs from the Dex and they might be wrong). Toxic also works well with Ferro's Protect and Corv, letting letting them stall attackers out. Walls Rotom forms (except Mow obviously). Does the negative speed matter?
So overall, I think the team has a solid core, with lots of room for improvement. Should I go for a more dedicated Rain build? And what better ways would you suggest to check Clefable and Dracopult? Are there any other mons who threaten the team I'm unprepared for? Thanks in advance.
Corviknight @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 240 SpD / 16 Spe
Careful Nature
- Iron Defense
- Body Press
- Defog
- Roost
Dracovish @ Choice Band
Ability: Strong Jaw
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fishious Rend
- Psychic Fangs
- Crunch
- Outrage
Pelipper @ Leftovers
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Tailwind
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Roost
Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip
- Spikes
- Protect
Clefable @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Thunderbolt
- Fire Blast
- Moonlight
Seismitoad @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Scald
- Earthquake
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 240 SpD / 16 Spe
Careful Nature
- Iron Defense
- Body Press
- Defog
- Roost
Dracovish @ Choice Band
Ability: Strong Jaw
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fishious Rend
- Psychic Fangs
- Crunch
- Outrage
Pelipper @ Leftovers
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Tailwind
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Roost
Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip
- Spikes
- Protect
Clefable @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Thunderbolt
- Fire Blast
- Moonlight
Seismitoad @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Scald
- Earthquake
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