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Welcome to the Not Fully Evolved Old Gens and OM Hub. This thread contains resources for the NFE tiers of older generations - Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon (USUM) NFE, Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire (ORAS) NFE, Black and White (BW) NFE, and Diamond/Pearl/Platinum (DPP) NFE, Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald (ADV), Gold/Silver/Crystal (GSC) and Red/Blue/Yellow (RBY) as well as NFE OMs - SS NFE Underused (NFE UU). This thread will also serve as a place to hold discussion about older generations of NFE and NFE OMs. Each post contains Viability Rankings, sample teams, and a list of mechanics of the generation that is different from the current generation. Feel free to post your thoughts on a particular aspect of these metagames: successful cores, underrated Pokemon, teams you want feedback on, and anything else related to old gens NFE. We hope to bring these metagames more exposure.
Welcome to Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon NFE! Here you will find the Viability Rankings for USUM NFE, as well as its sample sets linked to every pokemon, with other resources such as USUM Role Compendium, and USUM Speed Tiers. If you would like to suggest any changes to the Viability Rankings, please leave an intelligent post describing why you would want these changes.
Banlist:
The following Pokemon are banned in NFE: Chansey, Doublade, Gligar, Golbat, Gurdurr, Magneton, Piloswine, Porygon2, Rhydon, Scyther, Sneasel, Type: Null, Vigoroth,
The following abilities are banned in NFE: Arena Trap, Drought, Moody, Shadow Tag
The following moves are banned in NFE: Aurora Veil, Baton Pass
Reserved for Pokemon that do great in the current meta, and otherwise need little to no support to function, or ones that provide a tremendous amount of support.
Reserved for Pokemon that work well in the meta or can provide valuable niches, but otherwise have large competition or flaws that make them not as viable as A-Rank Pokemon.
Welcome to Diamond, Pearl, and Platinum NFE! Here you will find the viability rankings and other resources for the DPP NFE Metagame! If you wish to suggest changes to the VR, please leave an intelligent post in the thread!
Banlist:
Players cannot use the following Pokémon: Chansey, Dragonair, Dusclops, Electabuzz, Gabite, Haunter, Machoke, Magmar, Magneton, Porygon2, Rhydon, Scyther, Sneasel, Wynaut (Cacnea, Gible, Sandshrew are indirectly banned because of the Sand Veil ban)
Players cannot use the following abilities: Snow Cloak, Sand Veil, Shadow Tag
Players cannot use the following moves: Baton Pass, Sunny Day
Players cannot use the following items: Deep Sea Tooth, Light Ball, Light Clay
Reserved for absolutely meta defining Pokemon. These Pokemon are almost always able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well.
S
Misdreavus
Monferno
Roselia
A-Rank
Reserved for Pokemon that do great in the current meta, and otherwise need little to no support to function, or ones that provide a tremendous amount of support. They tend to have a few flaws which can be overlooked when compared to their amazing traits,
A+
Golbat
Gligar
Metang
A
Piloswine
Murkrow
Vigoroth
Wartortle
A-
Croconaw
Kadabra
Seadra
B-Rank
Reserved for Pokemon that work well in the meta or can provide valuable niches, but otherwise have large competition or notable flaws that make them not as viable as A-Rank Pokemon. They often require more support in order to bring out their full potential.
B+
Horsea
Marshtomp
Sealeo
Snover
B
Buizel
Diglett
Grovyle
Kabuto
Lombre
Omanyte
Yanma
B-
Bronzor
Clefairy
Cubone
Flaaffy
Lairon
Meditite
Munchlax
Pupitar
Shelgon
Tangela
Tentacool
C-Rank
Reserved for Pokemon that have a notable niche, but are generally outclassed or have a major flaw/major flaws that hold them back. They also face a large amount of competition from more commonly used Pokemon.
Welcome to NFE UU, the usage restricted version of NFE where your favorite underused NFE Pokemon can shine!
NFE UU allows any Pokemon legal in NFE which has a 3 month usage of less than 4.52%. Additionally, during months without tier shifts, there is potential for quick drops with stricter usage percentages cutoffs as per the general usage tiering guidelines.
Banlist:
Any Pokemon banned in NFE:
Chansey, Doublade, Haunter, Kadabra, Magneton, Mr. Mime-Galar, Pawniard, Pikachu, Porygon2, Rhydon, Scyther, Sneasel, Type: Null, Vulpix
Pupitar finds its main niche in ADV NFE as a Dragon Dance sweeper, thanks to its high base attack stat and physical STAB typing. Dragon Dance is a given and allows you to sweep teams once Pokémon such as Wartortle, Marshtomp and Seadra are weakened. Earthquake is your strongest and most reliable Ground-type move and is able to cleanly ohko several Pokémon after one Dragon Dance including all standard Trapinch and Metang. Rock Slide hits Flying-types such as Golbat and Dodou and other Ground Resists like Grovyle and Lombre harder. Rock Slide also helps in desperate situations in which you have to flinch your opponent. Substitute is a reliable way to active your Liechi Berry. Keep in mind that if you are using Substitute you want 30 hp ivs. This is critical as you want to get your berry with 25% left instead of 1% left. This allows you to live a quick attack from a Golbat or Trapinch attempting to revenge kill Pupitar. Endure is less consistent however it doesn't require 3 turns. This means that while attempting to get your Liechi Berry the opposing Pokémon will not recover as much from Leftovers. This can be potentially game changing against Pokemon like Wartortle and Seadra. Soft Sand gives you more immediate power and does not have the draw back of giving Leftovers recovery like Substitute or forcing you to play the annoying 50/50s of Endure. Soft Sand also gets an extra moveslot providing you extra coverage. Hidden Power Bug is your best option against pure Grass-types like Grovyle and Lombre. A Jolly Nature allows you to outspeed the entire tier after a Dragon Dance making it the choice over Adamant.
Pupitar has issues finding opportunities setting up due to the abundance of Water-types, Earthquake and Hidden Power Grass/Water in the tier. Pokémon that provide Pupitar a set up opportunity are highly recommended. A few Pokémon that you can set up on are Golbat, Doduo, Drowzee, and chipped Porygon making Grass-types like Grovyle an especially great partner luring in Drowzee, Porygon and Flying-types giving Pupitar a set up opportunity. Abra also makes a good partner as it also lures in Drowzee and Porygon. Choice Banded Golbat, Doduo, and Trapinch often lock into Quick Attack to revenge kill Abra as well which will also provide a set up opportunity. On more balance oriented teams you should fit good Special Walls like Drowzee and Porygon and pair them with a Rapid Spinner so you can safely switch into Pokémon such as Seadra and Abra. Spikes help weaken Pupitar's answers into +1 Earthquake range, making Omanyte and other Spike setters good partners. Metang shares a lot of Pupitar's checks/counters and can wear them down or ohko them with Explosion so that Pupitar can win in the late game or vice versa.
______________________________ Checks and Counters (Just throw some water at it lmao.)
Water/Grass-Types,
Pokemon like Wartortle, Marshtomp, and Ivysaur are not immediately threatened by Pupitar and can easily fire back with an ohko. Pokémon such as Abra who elect to use Hidden Power Water/Grass as coverage will prevent Pupitar from setting up
Vibrava,
While a niche option, Pupitar notably can not sweep until Vibrava is severely weakened or dead.
I thought I was done on this site, but quarantine kinda forced me to log on since I had nothing better to do. NFE old gens has a special place in my heart so gonna start this old gen update with a post! I have played SM and DPP nfe for 2/3 years now and the metas has definitely changed a lot since the samples was last updated. Regenerator cores, Volt Turn, Bird Spam, Screens, Webs and even Trick Room has been successfully used in old gen tours and nfepl so I definitely think we should get some new SM samples that shows more of this:
https://pokepast.es/fc786dd97cc6a2bf Tom Webs. This team is one of my staples. Webs in a meta where Servine and Pawniard is some of the best mons doesn't really make sense, but this team works so well. Dewpider is a really good webs setter since it checks Monferno and Machoke, and has Magic Coat for hazard setters. Monferno + Roselia is so good offensively and defensively, and is 100% needed to actually not lose against Servine or Pawniard. Added Pawniard for rocks, Haunter, Kadarba, bird check and to punish Defog. Kadabra was added since it gives the team outs against mons like Fraxure, Hakamo, Pawniard, Monferno and Haunter. I added Servine last because it kinda glues the team together. Can take hits from ground types and Kadabra while being an offensive threat at the same time. Super easy to use and I I guarantee wins with this!
Here are some examples of the Regen core teams. Tangela + Mareanie is so effective together since they check a lot of the top tier mons while also giving your team Knock off spam which obviously is amazing since most Pokemon carry Eviolite. I have Natu on a couple of these teams because Roselia is honestly the only annoying Pokemon for the regen core, but you can of course run Vullaby instead. Pairing the regen core with volt turn cores gives you really good control on most games since both your defensive core and offensive core gives you momentum.
The DPP meta has also changed a bit and definitely needs a sample team update too. The samples we have right now are all very similar so I thought it would be nice with at least a bit more variety. My nfepl team only lost 1 time in nfepl and we only used 2 teams so I'm gonna submit those.
https://pokepast.es/d8bba0c32e9b76fb Hail. The idea was Hail + Tentacool. Tentacool absorbs Toxic Spikes, checks Monferno and even has access to Toxic Spikes which makes it the perfect partner with Sealeo and Snover. Added Misdreavous + Metang because those 2 covers so much of the metagame and gives the team much needed Ground immunity, Psychic resist and Stealth Rocks. Monferno was added as scarfer because we needed speed, U-turn to bring in Sealeo easier and a way of breaking opposing Sealeo.
https://pokepast.es/b1b32b61cad54be4 Sub Piloswine. Banded Piloswine is very strong, but we felt like switching between moves would be so nice because Ice + Ground coverage is really strong. Sub is a really cool option and we combined it with Toxic Spikes to weaken mons like Wartortle even faster. The idea behind this was to weaken physical walls with Monferno + Piloswine + Metang and eventually win with one of them.
Hello everyone, the ORAS NFE council has decided to make drastic changes to the banlist following the communities' discontent of the format. The following Pokémon are being unbanned: Fletchinder, Gligar, Golbat, Gurdurr, Haunter, Machoke, Monferno, Pawniard, Piloswine, Servine, Sneasel, and Vigoroth. The following Pokémon, Abilities, and Items remain banned: Chansey, Doublade, Magneton, Porygon2, Rhydon, Scyther, Arena Trap, Drought, Moody, Shadow Tag, Baton Pass, and Swagger.
Chansey, Doublade, Magneton, Porygon2, Rhydon and Scyther are notorious for being broken in NFE.
Chansey takes practically nothing from Special attacks and very few Physical attacks have the ability to threaten it out. The sheer utility provided by Chansey (Aromatherapy, Stealth Rocks, Status, Wish, etc.) is too centralizing for the tier and restricts teambuilding significantly.
Doublade takes little from most Physical moves, even super effective ones, while making up for its poor special bulk with Eviolite. Thanks to this great bulk and its high attack Doublade is capable of easily sweeping most teams in NFE.
Nothing safely switches into Analytic boosted Magneton. Magneton's two best answers, Ferroseed and Marshtomp, still get threatened by HP Fire and HP Grass respectively. Ferroseed also gets heavily chipped by Volt Switch and lets in threats such as Flame Orb Machoke.
Porygon2, like Chansey, is an amazing wall with great Special Bulk and even better Physical Bulk. It also maintains an offensive presence with base 105 Special Attack and great coverage moves.
Rhydon has very few switchins if any, the main one being Porygon2 which is banned as well. It also provides Stealth Rocks support and great physical bulk for a team that lacks in those departments.
Lastly, Scyther is tied for the second highest base speed in the tier, with Sneasel being its only non-scarfed offensive check. As for defensive checks, it U-turns on all of them to regain momentum for free, while on the other hand it can also function as a sweeper with Swords Dance sets.
New Banlist:
The following Pokemon are banned in ORAS NFE: Chansey, Doublade, Magneton, Porygon2, Rhydon, and Scyther, as well as any fully evolved Pokémon
The following abilities are banned in ORAS NFE: Arena Trap, Drought, Moody, Shadow Tag
The following moves are banned in ORAS NFE: Baton Pass, Swagger
OP has been updated with the new banlist, expect Sample Teams and playtesting tournaments soon.
My **totally not biased at all** Gen 4 VR, Pokémon within subranks are not ordered.
S-Rank
S Monferno Misdreavus Roselia
A-Rank
A+ Metang Gligar
A Murkrow Golbat Piloswine
A- Kadabra Clefairy Vigoroth Wartortle
B-Rank
B+ Snover Sealeo Marshtomp Croconaw Seadra
B Hipopoptas Yanma Diglett Grovyle Lombre Staravia Tentacool
B2 (Rain-Rank, I want to list the rain mons in B rank however Lombre is notably better than the other rain mons and can work by itself as a late game cleaner (kind of) so I thought I should separate the rain mons)
Hey frens. After some discussion, the DPP NFE Council have unanimously decided to unban both Horsea and Thick Club.
Horsea was initially banned after Week 1 of NFEPL concluded, and admittedly wasn't done very well as it excluded many opinions of the playerbase, while simultaneously not allowing enough time for any adaptation to occur. Since then, the metagame has evolved, as we've seen more optimisation to different archetypes, and the rise of Hail and Roselia being even more common, both of which have a solid matchup against Rain teams. Because of these reasons, we are reallowing the usage of Horsea in DPP NFE.
Thick Club was banned alongside Deep Sea Tooth, when it was deemed that Cubone and Clamperl made Trick Room too powerful. However, it is now clear that having to check both Clamperl and Cubone was what made Cubone a threat in the first place. Cubone is much weaker than Clamperl with a Base Attack of 50 compared to Clamperl's Base Special Attack of 74 and there are several Pokemon in the metagame that are immune to its STAB attacks. Therefore, we have decided to free Thick Club as well.
The council are thinking about more potential unbans such as Dusclops and Machoke, as well as several others. Any potential input is welcome and would be very helpful.
Also expect updates to the Viability Rankings in the near future.
A -> A+ A- -> S B+ -> A- B+ -> A- B- -> B+ B- -> B+ C+ -> B- C -> B- C -> C+ C -> B- C- -> C C- -> C+ C- -> C+ New -> B+ UR -> B UR -> B- UR -> B UR -> B UR -> C
Drops
S -> A+ S -> A A+ -> A A -> A- A- -> B+ A- -> B B+ -> B B+ -> B B -> B- B -> B- B -> C+ C+ -> C
No Change
S S A+ A B B- B- B- B- B- C+ C C- C-
You can find all the individual votes here. Thank you DPP Council for voting on this so quickly, and apologies for not getting this out sooner as I was slightly busy this week.
Yo guys, ORAS NFE is finally going to have some progress, hopefully. Sorry for the delay it was all my fault so direct all concerns to me.
First of all we have 2 new members on the council; 85percent and professor tox. I would like to thank both of them for being down to help with this cursed tier.
As for the meta itself, we have decided to stick to the current banlist which is in the OP above, and having weekly ban waves to thin out the mons that are deemed to be too unhealthy for the tier.
To aid in this process, we're going to host ORAS tours in the PS room (https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/nfe), starting this weekend. The timings are as follows:
After the first weekend of room tours, the ORAS Council has completed the first stage of voting on a few problematic mons where 3/5 majority was required for a ban.
As a result, Fletchinder and Vigoroth are now BANNED from ORAS NFE while the other 3 are here to stay for now.
The room tours will still be held over the weekend at the same times as last week so be there or you will be terrorized by a flock of Gale Winging Fletchinders in your nightmares.
Sneasel, Piloswine, and Haunter are now BANNED from ORAS NFE.
The council is now going to look into Gligar and Golbat next.
And for a final update, I'll be leaving my position on council and leaving ORAS in the hands of beauts, that is all for now.
I've been playing quite of DPP NFE recently, and I want to highlight some stuff.
Hyper Offense is something that hasn't been utilized much, and I've gotten a lot of success with the playstyle as there are deadly breakers that core well together: Dragon Dance Shelgon, Agility Metang, and Sword Dance/Dragon Dance Croconaw as an example. The leads can vary all around, but I've been trying out Custap Offensive Marshtomp, and somewhat Monferno and Grotle(it sucks as a HO lead). With that, you have a multitude of options to add to your last slots. Trappers that could trap Misdreavus or Monferno or another breaker such as NP Golbat and SD Gligar. And all these are still very unexplored. With that said, I do think Shelgon and Croconaw are "mandatory" for every HO team because what they provide is hard to replace.
Another playstyle that could be explored is stall; particularly hazard stall with sand. I and arctic has been building around it and there is some potential in it. The playstyle can combat against other weather teams, and balance playstyles. It's still a hard playstyle to use though. But if you're interested in building one: Hippo is mandatory for sand, and Roselia is technically the only spiker user with recovery. From there you should have defensive Misdreavus for the spinblocker and IMO Clefairy as it ignores hazards and you can't set up on this pokemon with the broken encore. Otherwise, there are supporters to add in such as fast tank Gligar/Golbat, Wincon Bronzor, Diglett, etc. Stall isn't looked into enough tl;dr.
Just some personal highlights on Pokemon I would note. should be offensive, 252 Atk adamant with the hp/speed is depended on who you want to speed creep. Marshtomp has an amazing typing and coverage that's able to put pressure once it's in the field. Not only it's good in mid-game, but it can be deadly in the early game. You could even use CB as a lead to surprise your opponent. But yeah it's a rocker that can pressure against physdef Wartortle and I think that's more enough reason to use this pokemon if you need a pokemon that has more threatening stab and can pressure spinners.
with Pursuit x Triple Special Attacks can be a surprise factor to teams that expects physical attacks, making it more deadly and harder to pinpoint.
Scarf has some potential to be used if you want to get rid of scarfers such as Monferno.
Scarf/Specs can be a deadly endgame cleaner once Metang and Murkrow are gone.
may have some potential to be another spiker to teams that prefers physical defense, and it got spin too. The problem is that the mon is so passive and it can't threaten Misdreavus nor Wartortle so this may not fit in many teams sadly.
Btw I'm up to play more DPP NFE matches as I have a lot of interest in DPP in recent months. If you want to play against me, hit me up at NFE Discord or NFE Room on Showdown :]
B Bronzor Diglett Grovyle Lombre Tentacool Shelgon Omanyte
B2 (Rain-Rank, I want to list the rain mons in B rank however Lombre is notably better than the other rain mons and can work by itself as a late game cleaner (kind of) so I thought I should separate the rain mons same w/ Omanyte bc of offensive spikes)
ORAS NFE had some ups and downs during its lifetime. Leadership changed five times since the beginning, and we've had a variety of different council members. After the metagame was heading into a direction that made a majority of the already small playerbase unhappy, we decided on a revamp a while ago. Now with NFEPL coming up, it was about time to get things going.
Quagg and I took over ORAS leadership, Monsareeasy and OranBerryBlissey10 make up the rest of the ORAS council for now. We've been working on creating resources for this (basically) new metagame, including a (preliminary) Viability List, Speed Tiers, a Role Compendium, and a Set Compendium. Once we have more data to go off of, we will turn the Viability List into a Viability Ranking. Speed Tiers and Set Compendium are still in need of some changes to account for the addition of new Pokémon which were not allowed in the previous ORAS NFE format, and the Role Compendium does not yet include low viability Pokémon.
We have not been able to put out good Sample Teams yet, due to how new the format is. They will follow once the meta begins to take shape.
Now the main reason I am making this post is to encourage everyone who is interested to give ORAS a try before NFEPL starts. Below I Included 3 teams for those who really do not want to build anything, but replays with team variety are incredible important for us to create accurate resources going forward. As such I also encourage everyone who decides to play to save replays and send them to me. Feel free to let the council members know if you're looking for someone to play with! I will see if we can get some ORAS room tours happening in the near future.
Click the sprites below to open the team importables. These teams are very rough around the edges, so - again - give building a go on your own!
(Thanks Oran!)
That's it for now! I hope we can get some people to play this format in its early stages. This might be a good chance for you to carve yourself a niche as a player or builder for NFEPL - no one knows this format yet!
Also if you have any concerns regarding the balance of the format and potentially unhealthy elements, let council know!
The ORAS NFE Council has voted on Machoke, and the result is a ban. The reason for this is the combination of No Guard and Dynamic Punch (with a 50% chance to hit yourself in confusion). We do not consider Machoke broken, because a) beyond Dynamic Punch it is mostly outclassed, or at least experiences heavy competition from other fighting types in Gurdurr and Monferno, and b) solid counterplay like Golbat and Tangela exists.
The sole reason for this ban is the uncompetitive nature of guaranteed confusion, which is exacerbated by the prevalence of paralysis inducing moves in the metagame - most importantly Glare on Servine and Thunder Wave on Clefairy. This allows Machoke to potentially eliminate counterplay, based purely on chance (confusion plus paralysis results in a 37.5% chance for your move to go through).
On a different note, beauts will be joining the ORAS NFE Council, welcome back!
That's it for now. Excuse the double post, have fun with ORAS, and let me or council know if you have any questions
Haven't posted DPP in a while but I've been stuck between making a video or posting on forums and I decided the latter since I don't really have a passion for making videos anymore. Regardless, I'm here to present my personal VR, I like how with DPP, there are a lot of different opinions as well as shared opinions and it's always interesting to see the differing opinions. I didn't think much of Roselia when the mon started to garner usage last PL but now I think the mon is insane. I'll of course explain any changes that differ from the current VR and also some new things that aren't present on current VR either. I'm excited to see how DPP turns out this PL as well. Hope you enjoy!
Rises are blue, drops are red, new additions are green.
S-Rank
Reserved for absolutely meta defining Pokemon. These Pokemon are almost always able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well.
S
Misdreavus
Roselia
A-Rank
Reserved for Pokemon that do great in the current meta, and otherwise need little to no support to function, or ones that provide a tremendous amount of support. They tend to have a few flaws which can be overlooked when compared to their amazing traits,
A+
Golbat
Gligar
Metang
Monferno
A
Piloswine
Murkrow
Seadra
Vigoroth
A-
Croconaw
Kadabra
Wartortle
B-Rank
Reserved for Pokemon that work well in the meta or can provide valuable niches, but otherwise have large competition or notable flaws that make them not as viable as A-Rank Pokemon. They often require more support in order to bring out their full potential.
B+
Horsea
Marshtomp
Sealeo
Snover
B
Buizel
Diglett
Grovyle
Hippopotas
Kabuto
Lombre
Omanyte
Staryu
Yanma
B-
Bronzor
Clefairy
Cubone
Flaaffy
Lairon
Meditite
Munchlax
Pupitar
Shelgon
Tangela
C-Rank
Reserved for Pokemon that have a notable niche, but are generally outclassed or have a major flaw/major flaws that hold them back. They also face a large amount of competition from more commonly used Pokemon.
C+
Onix
Porygon
Voltorb
C
Gastly
Mankey
Stunky
Tentacool
C-
Cranidos
Trapinch
Yeet to UR
Charmeleon
Combusken
Staravia?
Summary
So my VR is still relatively similar to the current, Misdreavus is still the best mon in the tier undisputed (sub cm lowkey tilts me). Some mons are obviously getting moved around due to meta changes and my overall thoughts of the mon. B- did not even get touched but I was close to considering Munchlax to C+ because it's directly competing with Clefairy and even though I don't think highly of Clef, it does have traits that make it more appealing than Munchlax rn. In any case, I'm now going to explain my choices.
Rises
(A- to A): Seadra is definitely a mon I believe to be A. One of our most splashable special attackers with a solid speed tier, perfect coverage and sweeping potential in Agility, it is definitely more consistent than its fellow Water Croconaw and as good as Piloswine and Vigoroth for sure. It also has good matchups against all of the top tier pokemon. It has the physical bulk to go toe to toe with Murkrow, at the minimum 2hkos common mons like Vigoroth and Metang and can even break past its checks like Roselia and Wartorle with Ice Beam and HP Grass respectively. The gap between A and A+ is not very wide so this PL, opinion could shift to Seadra being A+.
(C+ to B): Crazy how Hippopotas was rotting in C+ for so long but its positive traits have started to be noticed. Bring permanent chip with Sand is basically a godsend in most matchups where there is no hail. It pairs incredibly well with Spikes and Spikes are very easy to get up and to maintain (Misdreavus is on like 95% of teams and our spinners all have issues). Hippopotas can enable pretty much any offensive mon in the tier to do work. It is also one of the only defensive mons in the tier with reliable recovery, which gives it a better time checking physical threats over the course of the game whereas mons like Wartortle and Marshtomp easily get chipped and become more vulnerable.
(C+ to B): I laughed for a good 3 minutes when I saw Tentacool was above Staryu LOL. Staryu is one of our three spinners with the best offensive potential. It can actually punish players bringing in Misdreavus anticipating the spin by 2hkoing always with Hydro Pump (unless its some max hp spdef set) and that's still good in the long run because Misdreavus has no reliable recovery. Choice Scarf is also a solid set that has the surprise factor to catch out the most common scarfer Monferno. C+ was definitely underselling its abilities.
Drops
(S to A+): Probably the most controversial change of the VR I have. Monferno has been a S tier mon since the tier pretty much stabilised after the big 6 bans (The big 6 being Chansey, Rhydon, Scyther, Porygon2, Magneton, Dusclops) at the start of the tier's life. It has always been a versatile mon with many different sets that are very strong: Band, Scarf, Swords Dance, Nasty Plot, suicide lead, even bulky rocks (the worst set, you see its stats?) But you are thinking "why are you dropping it to A+ then?" My sole reason is that it just doesn't feel like S to me. If we consider the remaining S mons, Misdreavus and Roselia, Misdreavus is clearly S, the best mon in the tier, hardly any flaws, a part of all team structures, not as versatile as Monferno but still a good number of sets that are all very strong. And then Roselia, a mon that probably wouldn't be S without Spikes tbh but it goes to show the opinion that the players have of Spikes in the meta. Roselia is also more vulnerable than both Misdreavus and Monferno, more common weaknesses and a weaker speed tier. Offensive Roselia sets must also sacrifice power if they want Spikes since Leaf Storm + Spikes is incompatible due to egg moves bs but that isn't the biggest problem. What I'm leading onto here is that those two are carrying the tier on their tiny backs and I just don't feel Monferno has that influence like it previously did in earlier metas. It would definitely be the best A+ mon for sure and I'm sure no one wants to confuse things with S+ S- stuff so A+ it is.
(A to A-): Wartortle is an interesting case because I've heard people say the mon is a bad spinner or the mon is bad (I think maybe Arctic but who knows) but it is still the main spinner of the tier. What my issues are with Wartortle is how it enables Misdreavus to kinda do whatever it wants. Defensive sets are too passive and we or I, have found other defensive mons that aren't as exploitable as Wartortle like Gligar. Roselia also does not care for defensive sets and either sets up Spikes or chips it with grass STAB. Honestly the best sets rn are non-defensive sets so it's not to get punished by Misdreavus or Roselia. It has decent atk so it can run Waterfall and Zen Headbutt to deal with those two, however it loses its defensive utility and becomes a lousy monferno check. Furthermore, the tier has a surplus of water types that are better offensive threats so why would you run offensive Wartortle when Seadra and Croconaw are there? Staryu is ALSO the better offensive spinner! Overall, due to its inconsistency sometimes I believe it should drop a rank.
(B- to C): So imagine Wartortle but with no offensive capability and no physical bulk, you got Tentacool ladies and gentlemen! The only thing to note for this mon is T spikes and special bulk but the latter doesn't matter when you have base 40 HP and I don't think highly of the former. It is also one of 3 spinners but why would you use this as your spinner? Experimentation? You'll be surely disappointed. I would really love to unrank this but it does have a niche that some mons do not possess in the limited pool of mons.
(C to UR): I'll pair these two together because they suffer from pretty much the same problems and were in the same tier. Charmeleon, the better one of the two is just incredibly underwhelming. Everything you want to try to do with this mon, there is always a better option, Monferno being the first choice 9 out of 10 times. The things that attempt to set it apart from the other fire types is Dragon Dance but guess what? It's the worst user of the move. It's the fastest but it's so weak I'd rather appreciate Pupitar's unresisted STAB combination or Shelgon's physical bulk and Dragon STAB. It can't even run dd + flare blitz and what do you know, it's because of egg move bs so your best STAB is 75 BP. No one uses this mon nor has any success with it so I really don't think we should have it ranked. Did I also mention the rocks weakness?
Now onto Combusken. We still have one gen before it becomes useful but in gen4, it is really bad. If you have somehow let it up both SD and Agility, you are the worst player I've seen. That's its only niche, trying to use the fact it's stronger than Monferno but setting up even Agility just doesn't happen, it's slower than a good amount of the offensive metagame and has no bulk. Seadra is also the superior Agility mon and has no one that can compete with its power on the special side while Combusken literally has one of the best mons as competition plus other fire types (Houndour and Ponyta have put in more work)
(C+ to UR)?: I am still somewhat uncertain with this but at the same time, this mon doesn't do anything. Flying spam has been used at some points in time but it was never Staravia doing anything. If it had Reckless, this wouldn't be a conversation but it doesn't so what we're left with is a weak bird and no reason to use it when Murkrow is stronger, faster, pursuit traps, and has mixed attacking potential. I think this mon's placement is just the legacy of the old meta but this mon does not have any place in current DPP. Even Scarf Murkrow has seen some usage and I don't think you're missing out on too much by not having U-turn.
Additions
(UR to C+): Choice Specs Porygon with a Download spatk boost is the strongest special attacker in the tier. It is most likely getting a spatk upon switching in on average the mons in the tier will have a lower spdef than def. If it clicks Tri Attack, it is getting a kill. Shame it cannot spam it as often as it likes due to Misdreavus but that's why boltbeam exists, you can just click them and get 2hkos, doing 90% max to 0 hp invested Misdreavus. I believe C+ to be appropriate, Porygon just needed a little bit more speed, it fails to break into 200, which wouldve been nice to get non speed nature max speed base 50s like Piloswine, Metang and offensive Marshtomp.
(UR to C): There is only one word I can say. Explosion. That is Stunky's niche, you explode on something and receive your one for one if it's not a Misdreavus or Steel type. Choice Scarf manages to get faster threats that will probably ohko you like Gligar, Misdreavus and Murkrow. It is inconsistent to have your speed control booming on you so C is fine imo. I want to hear more opinions on this mon since I'm pretty sure I'm the only one trying it out rn.
Before I finish, I just wanted to recommend everyone some mons they could try. My favourite thing about this tier is how I'm able to try out and look for new things to use.
: I feel like Tangela gets zero love. Offensively, Grovyle is the better choice because it's tied to being the second fastest in the tier and physical sets have Swords Dance. Roselia offers Spikes and a secondary typing while also hitting as hard as Tangela so I find it to be in an iffy middle spot where it's by no means bad but struggles to find its place in the meta. Choice Scarf is a set I find myself using to offset its average speed tier and Leaf Storm hit incredibly hard but then again, Roselia can do the same thing. THE CYCLE CONTINUES!
: One of few electric types remaining in the tier and yes there's no Guts or Wild Charge but Intimidate is fine enough so at least you won't die to one physical attack instantly. The spatk stat isn't completely bad so you can run HP Grass and kill Marshtomp and Thunder Fang + Ice Fang does the rest. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4uu-1381501541-8m0dpurfxmnba3rjftx58l4m5gex035pw this replay shows Luxio doing a mere 49% to max HP Misdreavus. Prepare to be slightly disappointed in this mon.
: Magnemite is fun enough for me to mention. Choice Specs with 95 spatk is strong by DPP NFE standards and it does have Explosion so do as you wish with it.
NFE ORAS council has decided to ban Gligar (80% ban, 20% no ban) and Frogadier (100% ban). As such ORAS NFE can now be played in RU
Frogadier lacks consistent defensive counterplay for the all-out-attacker expert belt set, with the existing counterplay either having to rely on Frogadier not carrying a specific coverage move (e.g. Gunk Shot for Clefairy, Hidden Power Fire for Ferroseed, Dark Pulse for Duosion or Dusclops), or just being too passive and abusable by U-turn Frogadier (e.g. Munchlax, Chinchou). There is no good indicator at team preview to figure out which moves the opposing Frogadier is running, turning it into a random guessing game. And this is backed up by an amazing speed (being the third fastest relevant Pokemon in the tier), limiting offensive counterplay.
Gligar combines a variety of useful qualities: Defog, Knock Off, Poison immunity (if not running Defog - they are not compatible), U-turn, Recovery, amazing physical bulk and solid overal bulk, Taunt, sometimes Stealth Rock, and Set up. There are two reasons playing into Gligar's ban. The first and less important point is how easily Gligar can be used effectively on every single team, without any drawbacks. However, this is compensated for by the mentioned set variety, still leaving room for teambuilding skill. The more important point is how threatening set up Gligar is. Utilizing a mix of Swords Dance, Earthquake, Acrobatics, Agility, and Roost (and potentially coverage like Stone Edge or Knock Off), paired with the aforementioned bulk, leads to a threatening Sweeper with very limited counterplay. Defensive counterplay like Eelektrik and Bronzor is quite niche, but also outright loses to Roost and Taunt sets, while offensive counterplay can't beat Agility sets. Tangela comes quite close, and beats a variety of sets, but not only is it forced to run HP Ice, it actually loses to Acrobatics sets if there's no item.
The common theme is that both Pokemon can not run a single set that covers everything, which it turn means you can run multiple answers in order to have one that will work depending on the situation. Still, this turns out to be too restricting, forcing you into using niche Pokemon, and still having to guess until the set is revealed, in order to not give up health on the needed Pokemon.
If you are looking for more in depth reasoning, feel free to ask a member of the ORAS council.
Now that NFEPL is over I'm just gonna dump all my sm teams here again:
- OTR Lamp Week 1 (W) - Replay
Lamp's an incredibly underrated mon imo. OTR's fun, capable of sweeping lategame very easily and getting through vull with firium after a knock. The one change I'd make would be going iron fist fire punch on ferno over fire blast and swapping the EVs around accordingly so whatever the fuck happened late game wouldn't have, but I don't respect Vull as a real option in this tier and you shouldn't too. Fatferno and Lax are cool for checking the problem children of the tier in Pawniard and Haunter.
- Future Sight + Pawniard Week 2 (L) - Replay
I watched too much gen 8 week 1 and decided it'd also work in gen 7. It did really well in testing and I like the team a lot, but a really unfortunate early game cost us here. Future Sight has a lot more room for exploration in gen 7, despite there being more viable darks in Grimer and Pawn, and both Pawn and Serv can put a ton of pressure on teams. Shame about Machoke being broken in the actual game, though.
- BuzzSpikes Week 3 (W) - Replay
Z-Ice Punch Buzz is neat since the tier's not exactly got a lot of z-move competition to it. Other than that this is a pretty standard spikes balance, with broken mon Machoke and the return of Lampent as the team's fire check. I fully believe that if you're not running Flame Orb you should always be No Guard Choke, it's way better at getting through its checks than CC is. Not much of the team got shown off in this replay as elgino brought a team that couldn't break Rose safely and then sac'd his one switchin to it.
- KadFrogChoke Week 4 (L) - Replay
Ninja requested a frog team, so I built one. I'm not the biggest Frog fan since it's tough to build around without the reward of something like a Kadabra or Haunter, but it's solid. This is probably the most standard team I built for the tournament, and the game ran close, with a slight misplay on Ninja's part costing him the endgame. Such is life.
- FightSpam Week 4 (W) - Replay beauts asked me for a SM team this week, so I gave them this one since it matched up poorly against what we expected Quagg to bring. Sub DD Hakamo-o is extremely difficult to check for any team lacking a Clefairy if it gets going, and Machoke is the best thing in the tier at luring in and breaking Clefairy. Shoutouts to Cheryl. for creating this evil Machoke set. Neither of them really went off in the game, but zeefable still won anyways. This was also going to be Ninja's team for week 5 as it was better than anything I'd come up with that week, but Ninja and Plas deadgamed so this team only got brought once.
- Z-Thunder Haunter Spikes Semifinals (W) - Replay
Z-Thunder Haunter is very funny as long as people insist on bringing Vullaby, as it just completely owns it. It's also the strongest hit Haunter gets vs Grimer, doing about 60 to the standard, non-spd version, which helps out in a pinch. Fatferno's great into Pawn/Grimer, and I'd fully expect this set to pick up steam in the future if it hasn't already given how deadly pawn is. Marill is cute as a temporary check to Ferno and Choke, too, although Ninja understandably was a little wary of it. It's probably a B+ mon, people should use it more. We got a pretty unbelievable MU here, but that's why you don't bring webs.
- Hail Finals
I had to do it once. This is likely the optimal hail team, packing as much as I could for utility into the other four slots. It helps that Shrew and Snover have more things they can come in on this gen, like buzz for snover and clef/rose for shrew since powder rose is relatively uncommon. SD Shrew has zero switchins at +2 under hail, which makes the playstyle worth running sometimes, but it's still high risk high reward. Sadly, we won so fast that Ninja never got to use it, but this was my favourite team I built all playoffs and I fully believe it could've taken on anything.
That's all, thanks for reading, shoutouts to xavgb for drafting me, ninjadog for playing super well, Cheryl. for testing every week and the rest of the Hattrems for being cool and fun to work with for this PL
USUM NFE 
Golbat
Gurdurr
Gastly
Koffing
Dwebble
Chinchou
Frillish
Meditite
Surskit
Zweilous
Elekid
Houndour
Snubbull
Wooper
Doduo
Dratini
Meowth
Pidgeotto
Ponyta
Anorith
Cherubi
Darumaka
Krabby
Squirtle
Tranquill
Trubbish
Horsea was initially banned after Week 1 of NFEPL concluded, and admittedly wasn't done very well as it excluded many opinions of the playerbase, while simultaneously not allowing enough time for any adaptation to occur. Since then, the metagame has evolved, as we've seen more optimisation to different archetypes, and the rise of Hail and Roselia being even more common, both of which have a solid matchup against Rain teams. Because of these reasons, we are reallowing the usage of Horsea in DPP NFE.
Thick Club was banned alongside Deep Sea Tooth, when it was deemed that Cubone and Clamperl made Trick Room too powerful. However, it is now clear that having to check both Clamperl and Cubone was what made Cubone a threat in the first place. Cubone is much weaker than Clamperl with a Base Attack of 50 compared to Clamperl's Base Special Attack of 74 and there are several Pokemon in the metagame that are immune to its STAB attacks. Therefore, we have decided to free Thick Club as well.
: Aipom did nothing this game but it got a W last PL so you might as well try it out LMAO 