Mac is averaging 35 attempts a game and has games where he’s thrown for 39, 40 and 51 attempts. 35 attempts per game is right in between Zac Wilson (34) and Lawrence (36). And his average air yards per throw is 7.5, slightly below other rookies (Lawrence leads the pack with 9.2) and similar to Herbert (7.4) and Kyler (7.4) in their rookie years.
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Sports NFL Thread: 2021-2022 Season
- Thread starter TheValkyries
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If they think Mac Jones is incapable of throwing to win a game why would they even spend a first round draft pick on him?
What do you suggest they do? Not try to score more points and ask the defense to make infinite stops against an incredibly hot offense? This line of thinking is counter-logical to your own argument.
There is a direct correlation between conservative playcalling and losing football games in the NFL currently. The entire game is now based on stealing possessions and maximizing possessions. The Patriots place a priority on neither and are actively giving possessions away. I suppose that If the Patriots goal this season was to bring their rookie QB along as slowly as possible and ask him to do as little as possible then I guess the argument makes sense. But I don't think that's the case with a team that spent the most in free agency and has a 70 year old coach.
To add to this, the Patriots conservative approach and actively giving possessions away on offense 100% contributed to the defense being completely out of gas at the end of the game. The TOP was completely out of control, which is what happens when you cant sustain drives and punt every chance you get.
Cowboys fans don't even think the Cowboys played anything close to perfect football.
If asking for 3 catches for 40 yards a game equates to "destroying all opponents" then yes I am asking for that.
My point was to tell you that they are very obviously not on pace for career years after you said they were on pace for career years.
The only money that matters in the NFL is what's Guaranteed so that's what I'm counting.
Jakobi Meyers was a great find, but if a receiver who doesn't have an NFL touchdown catch is your best pass catcher over the course of 3 seasons, what does that say about the rest of your offensive roster building?
20x the money for 2x the production isn't a winning formula.
Criticizing Belichick when his team has been in a clear downtrend for 4 seasons due to offensive deficiencies of his own making isn't shitting on Belichick, its pointing out the obvious.
Don't want to get in between this scrum, just want to address this one point.
Fundamentally disagree. The grand majority of quarterbacks aren't "NFL ready" right out of college. Makes sense that they don't have a ton of faith in Mac Jones yet. He is young and learning. He will improve, but we can't write him off as a bad draft pick because he has struggled a bit in his first 6 games.
I'm not writing him off as a bad pick, I just want to see him without the coaches babysitting him.
If you take the game out of your quarterbacks hands in the modern NFL you aren't going to win many games.
Is it good for his confidence if the coaches dont trust him to win a game?
TheValkyries you spittin rn
I'm in this camp. The readiness of a QB ultimately depends on how quickly they can execute a new coach's playbook. Most of the top QBs coming out of the draft come from teams that run somewhat more simplistic playbooks and/or teams that are talent-loaded (meaning that the talent can sometimes make up for bad decision-making). QBs like Kyler Murray seem to have success right out of the gate because both Lincoln Riley and Kliff Kingsbury come from the Air Raid offense coaching tree, so Kyler learning Kingsbury's playbook wasn't going to be too difficult for him.
Another point I think Dan Orlovsky made about Trevor Lawrence coming out of the draft is that his development is kind of hindered by Clemson's really basic offensive playbook. The simplicity of the Clemson offense didn't prepare Trevor Lawrence well going into the shitshow that is the Jacksonville Jaguars. Article link here.
“I believe this scheme held Trevor back. They’re very much go out and execute dependent, and when you’ve got generational quarterbacks with some superstar receivers and one of the best running backs in the history of the ACC, that works because they cover up a lot of stuff,” Orlovsky said. “But now, they’ve got a really young and unproven back, and a really young and unproven quarterback and some of these receivers aren’t the superstars that they’ve had in the past.”
It's not about playbook complexity (it partially is) it's more that college teams do not have defenses as talented and complex as the NFL. The ONLY team worth a damn defensively (and only partially) is Alabama. And that's what Urban Meyer said earlier this year, "It's like playing Alabama every week." There's too much talent on the field to get away with the beautiful looking throw on a flick that can go 60 yards to a guy 15 yards open. Every receiver is going to be at best 2 yards open, and at worst, going to have to fight for the ball at the catch point. What "NFL Ready" means is being able to throw with anticipation because you only have about a few steps out of a break before a dback catches up, so the ball needs to be in the air before the receiver even turns or you have to have a howitzer 500 caliber cannon of an arm to zip balls by defenders before they realize that the ball is even coming, and even still those guys with those arms need to be able to see the defense and understand where the soft spots are or else they're going to run into trouble.
Trevor Lawrence will have to learn more complex play concepts but they aren't like dense particle physics. The hope is that he has the arm talent to make up for a lot and so he'll be able to adjust to the significantly faster and bigger defenses, and that his talent will help him see that next level of improvement he has to make, and then use that talent to succeed (Josh Allen is the pinnacle of this idea... Talented but sucked for years and then whoops all of a sudden a stud). Lots of guys don't do that though. They're just relying too much on their talent when it can't cut it anymore and don't have enough of that necessary awareness to have success. The reason Kyler Murray has success isn't that Kingsbury is that good of a coach (he kinda isn't, he's being carried by his talented QB. Think Mike McCarthy) it's that Kyler Murray is still so talented he can make up for a lot of stuff and he's also breaking plays down enough that the gaps in defenses are being pulled apart at the seams. This isn't to discount Murray either, he absolutely has a high level of awareness of defenses too, if he didn't he'd be Jameis Winston.
A guy like Mac Jones being called "NFL Ready" is a euphamism for "succeeding despite not being overly athletically talented". He's very very good at anticipation throws, and that skillset is the most translatable to the NFL. The problem with him, is that he's also very risk averse because he doesn't have the arm talent necessary to feel confident in a lot of his throws towards tight windows, so most of the time he's captain checkdown. As pretzels pointed out, like Sam Bradford, or Alex Smith.
Trevor Lawrence will have to learn more complex play concepts but they aren't like dense particle physics. The hope is that he has the arm talent to make up for a lot and so he'll be able to adjust to the significantly faster and bigger defenses, and that his talent will help him see that next level of improvement he has to make, and then use that talent to succeed (Josh Allen is the pinnacle of this idea... Talented but sucked for years and then whoops all of a sudden a stud). Lots of guys don't do that though. They're just relying too much on their talent when it can't cut it anymore and don't have enough of that necessary awareness to have success. The reason Kyler Murray has success isn't that Kingsbury is that good of a coach (he kinda isn't, he's being carried by his talented QB. Think Mike McCarthy) it's that Kyler Murray is still so talented he can make up for a lot of stuff and he's also breaking plays down enough that the gaps in defenses are being pulled apart at the seams. This isn't to discount Murray either, he absolutely has a high level of awareness of defenses too, if he didn't he'd be Jameis Winston.
A guy like Mac Jones being called "NFL Ready" is a euphamism for "succeeding despite not being overly athletically talented". He's very very good at anticipation throws, and that skillset is the most translatable to the NFL. The problem with him, is that he's also very risk averse because he doesn't have the arm talent necessary to feel confident in a lot of his throws towards tight windows, so most of the time he's captain checkdown. As pretzels pointed out, like Sam Bradford, or Alex Smith.
Looks like the Broncos season is basically lost since they can't even beat a battered Browns team.
Broncos Fans gonna be calling for some heads I'm sure.
Broncos Fans gonna be calling for some heads I'm sure.
the steelers loss didnt tip anyone off?
Too early for #FireAndyReid?
Zac Wilson who?
there are seven teams i consider bonafide super bowl contenders and one of them is in the afc
the slander is questionable but for playoffs i honestly don't know, this team is bleeding games and many more difficult games (vs GB, vs DAL, @CIN, @LAC, and @LV i guess) await
bucs packers rams cards ravens boys saints
the slander is questionable but for playoffs i honestly don't know, this team is bleeding games and many more difficult games (vs GB, vs DAL, @CIN, @LAC, and @LV i guess) await
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contenders are bucs cards ravens .... then maybe the cowboys if they weren't the cowboys.... then a bunch of outside shots, like rams, chiefs, packers.
I think the Bills def gotta be on that list.
Also, the Browns desperately need to figure out what's wrong with Baker and the offense. Cuz that video OBJ's dad posted of OBJ being open and not thrown to looks really bad. Was really hoping this was the year for them to prove themselves after nearly beating the Chiefs last year but, it's kinda looking like another long QB search is in the works.
Also, the Browns desperately need to figure out what's wrong with Baker and the offense. Cuz that video OBJ's dad posted of OBJ being open and not thrown to looks really bad. Was really hoping this was the year for them to prove themselves after nearly beating the Chiefs last year but, it's kinda looking like another long QB search is in the works.
the primary reason i don't trust them beyond an outside shot is that they're 1-2 against teams currently .500 or better. very light schedule and they have not made the most of their chances to show true game winning ability against real squads.
for reference, bucs are 3-2, boys are 3-1, cards are 3-1, rams are 2-1, pack are 3-1, and ravens are 4-2 in that category
its reductive to pin everything in one stat, i think the bills are clearly good, but quality of record is worse still than those numbers indicate. bills' easy games are especially easy. 2x fins, texans, and wft, 3 of 4 at home. jaguars and jets next two weeks... yawn. that covers like all of the legit cellar dwellers this season. they'd need to go 8-2 the rest of the way for me to put them in the group barring Strange Circumstances, and with a stretch of v.IND, @NO, v.NE, @TB, v.CAR, and @NE, and I'd struggle to give them better than a coin flip to do it.
most of the other teams had at least one win i'd call legitimate that barely didn't qualify: bucs @ eagles, boys @ vikes without prescott, rams @ seahawks (road games against semi-real div rivals kinda scary!), pack @ 49ers. there's other random stuff, like packers and cards getting most quality wins on the road, and bills' one .500 win being against the Sketchy chiefs
god bless the ravens for playing 6/7 games against .500 or better teams
I absolutely forgot about the bills but yeah they're for sure a solid contender in my top group of "teams who are actually good."
The reason I don't have the Rams in the "actually good" category is because while they're loaded with talent their QB is a 33 year old Matt Stafford. We have seen Matt Stafford for a lot of years and a very talented team around him isn't going to make up for... idk the right word... "swagger?" Matt Stafford has never been the guy to play huge in the playoffs. If the Rams play the Bucs in the playoffs they will get Brady'd. The only teams I have good enough to not get Brady'd have QBs too young and too talented to really understand what a black hole that man is for ending the runs of great teams. The Rams are loaded with talent, just like the Cowboys, but they haven't shown that they have the mettle to fight through a challenge. Maybe you can give the Cowboys merit in that category for their win against the Patriots??? but lol. It's the fuckin Patriots my dude.
I will say though, not every Super Bowl champ needs to have that because sometimes their mettle is never challenged at all. But that's why I have them as outside shots because they absolutely could win in that scenario.
The reason I don't have the Rams in the "actually good" category is because while they're loaded with talent their QB is a 33 year old Matt Stafford. We have seen Matt Stafford for a lot of years and a very talented team around him isn't going to make up for... idk the right word... "swagger?" Matt Stafford has never been the guy to play huge in the playoffs. If the Rams play the Bucs in the playoffs they will get Brady'd. The only teams I have good enough to not get Brady'd have QBs too young and too talented to really understand what a black hole that man is for ending the runs of great teams. The Rams are loaded with talent, just like the Cowboys, but they haven't shown that they have the mettle to fight through a challenge. Maybe you can give the Cowboys merit in that category for their win against the Patriots??? but lol. It's the fuckin Patriots my dude.
I will say though, not every Super Bowl champ needs to have that because sometimes their mettle is never challenged at all. But that's why I have them as outside shots because they absolutely could win in that scenario.
So let me get this right. You guys are doubting the Rams because Stafford is unproven in the playoffs but you have the 'Boys as super bowl contenders, even though they have a hack head coach, a team that's also unproven in the playoffs, and the team has done jack shit in over 26 years?
The funny thing is that it seems he never actually lied, he was just intentionally deceptive to the public ("I'm immunized" rather than vaccinated) and the League/Packers have just been casually allowing him to break COVID protocols all season. They obviously knew or he wouldn't have been immediately labeled out for 10 days, and yet he hasn't been masking and social distancing as required.
This is definitely a wild day of news: Ruggs going over 150, OBJ getting thrown under the bus (probably justifiably), Rodgers is a chemtrail wacko.
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