Gen 1 Nidoking (UU Mini) [QC 2/2] [GP 1/1] -- Taken over by PvK

[Batzi]

This is part of a project to get rid of the poor quality, misinformation-ridden RBY analyses from over a decade ago. These works are low-priority and should be treated as such. This thread is now maintained by PvK.

[OVERVIEW]
One wouldn’t expect Nidoking to struggle so much in RBY UU. With its impeccable coverage, Electric immunity, and well-rounded stats, one would even question why it isn't dominating. Once the opposing team is weakened, Nidoking becomes very threatening, as it hits nearly everything for neutral damage and can be very difficult to switch into. Moreover, it can freely pivot into an incoming Toxic, as well as Electric-type attacks like Thunder Wave and Thunderbolt from Electabuzz and Haunter, giving it some decent defensive utility. With adequate paralysis support from Pokemon like Hypno and careful play, Nidoking can feasibly work.

However, Nidoking comes with an egregious problem: its typing. Poison and Ground are among the worst possible defensive types in the game, making it weak to the many Water-, Ice-, Ground-, and Psychic-type attacks in the tier, and its Speed only worsens this situation. Therefore, despite its seemingly powerful offensive presence, it can hardly ever switch in because it struggles with so many metagame staples, namely Tentacruel, Hypno, Dragonite, Gyarados, and Articuno. Nidoking also struggles with damage output at many points, causing it to fail to even OHKO Dragonite with Blizzard, turning it into setup fodder for AgiliWrap. Ergo, on competitive RBY UU teams, Nidoking is often passed over in favor of better Ground-types, such as Dugtrio.

[SET]
name: Mixed Attacker
move 1: Thunderbolt
move 2: Blizzard
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Body Slam / Toxic

[SET COMMENTS]
Thunderbolt allows for Nidoking to hit Water- and Flying-types such as Gyarados, Dewgong, and Articuno. Blizzard 2HKOes Aerodactyl, Dragonite, and Dugtrio, blending with Thunderbolt to give it unresisted coverage. Earthquake gives Nidoking very powerful physical STAB damage, allowing it to 2HKO tier-king Tentacruel and Kadabra, as well as OHKOing Haunter and KOing Electabuzz if it's taken even slight damage. Body Slam lets Nidoking scout for potential switch-ins, potentially paralyzing them and turning the tables. Alternatively, Toxic allows it to prevent Dragonite and Dragonair from attempting AgiliWrap sweeps.

Nidoking's movepool makes it quite customizable, and, because Earthquake provides most of its necessary coverage, Thunderbolt is the most replaceable. Rock Slide can be used over Thunderbolt to deal up to 63.7% to Articuno while not sacrificing too much against Gyarados and Dewgong, but Nidoking will always lose to Articuno one-on-one if it can't KO it outright, as it's OHKOed by Blizzard. Alternatively, Submission can let Nidoking 2HKO Raticate, as well as 3HKOing Persian and Kangaskhan.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Yugon, 524119], [Plague von Karma, 236353], [Gamer1234556, 515642]]
- Quality checked by: [[phoopes, 96315], [EB0LA, 423005]]
- Grammar checked by: [[Finland, 517429]]

 

[Plague von Karma]

I know you're still working on it, but I have a few words on the Overview.

Overview
This is a bit jumbled up. Try to arrange the points into positive and negative positions and fix it context-wise.

Nidoking contains some of the greatest coverage in the game with good Ground, Ice, Fire, Electric, Water, Fighting and Rock coverage however its best Poison STAB attack is Poison Sting which is abysmal. It also gets Body Slam which allows for a 30% paralysis chance.

This is a bit excessive. Nidoking, at least most of the time, will only be using BlizzBolt + EQ + BSlam, with Rock Slide as an aside. Poison STAB could prolly be moved somewhere else, it's not too relevant.

Nidoking fails to beat one of the metagame staples in Hypno unless it is already rested to where it depends on rng.

This is true, but you should specifically mention critical hits rather than RNG. Always be specific when possible.

However, Nidoking's stats are less than impressive stats with 81/77/75 bulk being fairly average and with 92/75 in its attacking stats leaving its attacking prowess less to be desired.

Nidoking's attacking prowess is fine, it's just very reliant on its coverage working (which it does). I wouldn't say "[much] to be desired", rather "less impressive than one would initially expect".

 

[Oxtail]

With STAB EQ and so much coverage, Nido's lack of usable poison STAB is pretty much a moot point in the first two generations.

That, and there aren't any good damaging poison moves in gen1 anyway.

SB would have been nice in Gen2 though.

 

[BT89]

Even though I’m not part of the RBY QC, I’ll put in some input.

Nidoking contains some of the greatest coverage in the game with good Ground, Ice, Fire, Electric, Water, Fighting and Rock coverage however its best Poison STAB attack is Poison Sting which is abysmal

This feels a bit wordy and hard to read. I’d rephrase to something akin to “Nidoking’s impressive coverage allows it to hit many threats in the UU meta game for good damage.”

Mentioning the lack of Poison STAB isn’t too major of a point to really be brought up. Poison coverage isn’t too good in the RBY meta game, and it’s made up for by Nidoking’s excellent coverage.

Nidoking's ground typing makes it immue to Thunder Wave and gives it solid points of entry vs Electabuzz however be weary of Psychic.

Again, I’d reword this to something more clear. Something among the lines of “Nidoking’s typing allows it to have solid points of switch in against Electabuzz, due to it not being affected by Thunder Wave. However, you must be wary of Psychic, as it poses a threat to Nidoking’s overall longevity.”

92/75 in its attacking stats leaving its attacking prowess less to be desired.

Nidoking’s coverage allows his offensive prowess to work well. I wouldn’t say it’s exactly underwhelming than expected. I would say “lesser than what would be expected.”

Nidoking fails to beat one of the metagame staples in Hypno unless it is already rested to where it depends on rng.

Rephrase “RNG” to “critical hit”.

This check was pretty rushed, but I’ll make sure to check in later and more in depth. This check was more or less re-instating what others have said, so it’s just me saying that I agree with their points.

 

[Plague von Karma]

This analysis is on the right track but needs quite a bit of work.

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Go here for help implementing this type of check, it's the same concept as GP.

This is part of a project to get rid of the poor quality, misinformation-ridden RBY analyses from over a decade ago. These works are low-priority and should be treated as such.

[OVERVIEW]
Nidoking contains some of the greatest coverage in the game with good Ground, Ice, Fire, Electric, Water, Fighting and Rock which hits many threats in the UU metagame. (This is way too positive an introduction for Nidoking, and too wordy. Nidoking will oftentimes reserve itself to Electric, Ice, and Ground coverage, rarely ever going outside of that, so don't note it. Additionally, Nidoking struggles a ton in RBY UU as it just can't get it going when every single top tier catapults it to the sun. Tentacruel, Hypno, Kadabra, Dugtrio...they all beat it, hands down. You need to mention this early on. Something like "The harsh environment of RBY UU isn't kind to Nidoking [points]" works. You're on the right track with the overview overall, just need to be a bit harsher.) It also gets Body Slam which allows for a 30% paralysis chance. (unnecessary) Nidoking’s Ground typing allows it to have solid points of switch in a point of entry against Electabuzz and Dragonite, due to it not being affected by Thunder Wave. However, you must be wary of Psychic, as it poses a threat to Nidoking’s overall longevity. (more of a set details thing) Nidoking's Poison typing allows for it to switch into Toxic so that Dragonite can come in later and proceed to sweep with Agility + Wrap. However, Nidoking's stats are less than impressive, (AC) stats with 81/77/75 bulk being fairly average and with 92/75 in its attacking stats being less than what's expected. Its (RA) Speed is also 85, (AC) which means it is outsped by Tentacruel making it Wrap fodder. Nidoking fails to beat one of the metagame staples in Hypno unless it is already rested to where it depends on critical hits. It is also outclassed as a Ground-type (AH) because Dugtrio exists, (AC) which isn't fodder to Tentacruel due thanks (more positive wording) to its much higher Speed.

Mention that Nidoking really needs paralysis support to work.

[SET]
Name: Standard Nidoking Mixed Attacker (Nidoking isn't really "standard", so this would fit better)
Move 1: Thunderbolt
Move 2: Blizzard
Move 3: Earthquake
Move 4: Body Slam

[SET COMMENTS]
Thunderbolt allows for Nidoking to hit Water Types Water-types such as Gyarados, Tentacruel, and Vaporeon, as well as Articuno. Omastar, Poliwrath and Dewgong (Omastar is hit harder by EQ, the other two are more exhaustive than necessary) and allows it to hit Flying Types such as Articuno, Dodrio and Aerodactyl. (Blizzard hits Dodrio and Aerodactyl harder, it's strictly suboptimal to Thunderbolt) Blizzard allows it to fish for potential freezes on common checks(RC)—mainly Hypno—but also enables it to hit the Flying Types listed above and Flying-types like Aerodactyl, Dodrio, and Dragonite. Additionally, it hits Grass- (AH) and Ground Types Ground-types super effectively, (AC) such as Dugtrio, Tangela, Golem, (AC) and Venusaur. Earthquake is Nidoking's strongest Ground STAB, (AC) hitting many things neutrally, (AC) as well as like the ever-present (AH) Tentacruel, (AC) as well as Electabuzz, Haunter, Omastar, and Raichu. Body Slam fishes for paralysis so that Nidoking can beat its checks, (AC) such as Hypno and Kadabra other things that take multiple hits such as Kangaskhan (Body Slam can't paralyze Normal-types).

Maybe cite some calcs for the coverage options, never hurt anyone. Idk how you'd fit it with the way you wrote it though.

Maybe go over other options here. Toxic to more definitively put down Dragonite's AgiliWrap sweep, Counter for Kangaskhan/Persian/Dodrio, Fire Blast to hit Tangela, Venusaur, and try to burn Tentacruel?

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Yugon, 524119]]
- Quality checked by: [[name, id], [name, id]]
- Grammar checked by: [[name, id]]

Get back to me when this is implemented and I'll give a second look.

 

[Oxtail]

With regards to Nidoking's movepool I would suggest mentioning it along the lines of

"Despite it's awesome movepool and well rounded stats, Nidoking struggles to make an impact in RBY UU, mostly as a result of it's many common weaknesses(psychic, water, ice, and ground) along with it's middling speed tier."

 

[Gamer1234556]

Ok, mind if I give my input for this?

I don't mean to be condescending in any way, but I feel like the overview needs a complete overhaul. It doesn't really say just how problematic Nidoking's typing really is. It struggles so much with the metagame staples that it hardly ever gets a chance to do anything in battles. The way I would write the overview is this:

[OVERVIEW]
At first glance, one wouldn’t expect Nidoking to struggle so much in UU. With its impeccable coverage and solid enough stats, one would even question why it is even in the tier in the first place. However, despite those seemingly good qualities, Nidoking comes with an egregious problem: It's typing. Poison-Ground is one of the worst possible defensive typings in the game, as it leaves it weak to the many Water, Ice, Psychic and Ground attacks in the tier. This means that, despite its seemingly powerful offensive presence, it would hardly ever get opportunities to switch in since it struggles with so many metagame staples, namely Tentacruel, Hypno, Dragonite, Dugtrio, Gyarados, and Articuno.

That said, it isn’t all too bad for the King. Despite its horrendous typing, it can still pivot into a well-timed Toxic as well as Thunderbolts from Electabuzz and Haunter. Moreover, once the opposing team is weakened, Nidoking becomes much more threatening, as it hits nearly everything for neutral damage. Ultimately, Nidoking requires a lot of support and careful play to work in UU, but the payoff can be rewarding if played properly.

 

[Plague von Karma]

Ok, mind if I give my input for this?

I don't mean to be condescending in any way, but I feel like the overview needs a complete overhaul. It doesn't really say just how problematic Nidoking's typing really is. It struggles so much with the metagame staples that it hardly ever gets a chance to do anything in battles. The way I would write the overview is this:

[OVERVIEW]
At first glance, one wouldn’t expect Nidoking to struggle so much in UU. With its impeccable coverage and solid enough stats, one would even question why it is even in the tier in the first place. However, despite those seemingly good qualities, Nidoking comes with an egregious problem: It's typing. Poison-Ground is one of the worst possible defensive typings in the game, as it leaves it weak to the many Water, Ice, Psychic and Ground attacks in the tier. This means that, despite its seemingly powerful offensive presence, it would hardly ever get opportunities to switch in since it struggles with so many metagame staples, namely Tentacruel, Hypno, Dragonite, Dugtrio, Gyarados, and Articuno.

That said, it isn’t all too bad for the King. Despite its horrendous typing, it can still pivot into a well-timed Toxic as well as Thunderbolts from Electabuzz and Haunter. Moreover, once the opposing team is weakened, Nidoking becomes much more threatening, as it hits nearly everything for neutral damage. Ultimately, Nidoking requires a lot of support and careful play to work in UU, but the payoff can be rewarding if played properly.

Strongly recommend implementing this, Yugon.

I would go more into how a Nidoking sweep can be pulled off, as similar to Nidoqueen, it's very possible. Maybe cite some of the moves it gets, as well as calcs, just to emphasize it that little bit more. Doesn't hurt to be more specific.

 

[Plague von Karma]

Yugon has allowed me to take over on this so I'll be working on getting this into a better state soon™

EDIT: Gave it some touch-ups, prolly ready for QC now. I'm also crediting Gamer for his Overview contribution as it's definitely the way this should be going.

 

[phoopes]

Poison and Ground are among the worst possible defensive typings in the game, making it weak to the many Water, Ice, and Psychic-type attacks in the tier, and its Speed only worsens this situation.

it's also weak to Earthquake which I think is worth mentioning since it's only a few extra words

[SET]
name: Mixed Attacker
move 1: Thunderbolt
move 2: Blizzard
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Body Slam

Not to copy-paste too much from the Nidoqueen analysis but I think Toxic is worth a slash here with Body Slam. Gives you something to actually threaten Dragonite/nair with since Blizzard doesn't OHKO. At least throw a mention into other options since there isn't one there right now.

Blizzard allows Nidoking to 2HKO Aerodactyl, Dragonite, Dugtrio and Aerodactyl, blending with Thunderbolt to give it near-unresisted coverage.

Double check me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure BlizzBolt has actual unresisted coverage in RBY.

---

Plague von Karma QC 1/2

 

[Plague von Karma]

QC 1/2

Implemented this

 

[EB0LA]

Would only minimally change some mons mentioned for others but honestly that'd just be nitpicking, and it is unnecessary for sake of just cleaning up dated articles.

QC 2/2

 

[Plague von Karma]

QC 2/2

Added a couple mentions Eb put on Discord. Initially thought they were unnecessary but there wasn't a reason not to add them.

Ready for GP.

 

[Adeleine]

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[OVERVIEW]
One wouldn’t expect Nidoking to struggle so much in RBY UU. With its impeccable coverage, Electric immunity, and well-rounded stats, one would even question why it isn't dominating. Despite its horrendous typing, Nidoking can still pivot into an incoming Toxic, as well as Electric-type attacks like Thunder Wave and Thunderbolt from Electabuzz and Haunter, giving it some decent defensive utility. Moreover, Once (moved and slightly altered for cohesiveness) the opposing team is weakened, Nidoking becomes much more very (I imagine this checks out? former felt a bit tepid/general even for a not great mon) threatening, as it hits nearly everything for neutral damage and can be very difficult to switch into. Moreover, it can freely pivot into an incoming Toxic, as well as Electric-type attacks like Thunder Wave and Thunderbolt from Electabuzz and Haunter, giving it some decent defensive utility. With adequate paralysis support from Pokemon like Hypno and careful play, Nidoking can feasibly work.

However, despite those seemingly good qualities, Nidoking comes with an egregious problem: its typing. Poison and Ground are among the worst possible defensive typings types in the game, making it weak to the many Water-, Ice-, Ground-, and Psychic-type attacks in the tier, and its Speed only worsens this situation. This means that, Therefore, despite its seemingly powerful offensive presence, it would hardly ever get opportunities to switch in since can hardly ever switch in because it struggles with so many metagame staples, namely Tentacruel, Hypno, Dragonite, Gyarados, and Articuno. Nidoking also struggles with damage output at many points, causing it to fail to even OHKO Dragonite with Blizzard, turning it into setup fodder and letting it abuse for AgiliWrap. Ergo, on competitive RBY UU teams, Nidoking is often passed over in favor of better Ground-types, such as Dugtrio.

[SET]
name: Mixed Attacker
move 1: Thunderbolt
move 2: Blizzard
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Body Slam / Toxic

[SET COMMENTS]
Thunderbolt allows for Nidoking to hit Water- and Flying-types such as Gyarados, Dewgong, and Articuno, but outside of these, Earthquake does more damage. Blizzard allows Nidoking to 2HKO Articuno. Blizzard 2HKOes (i think the "eq stronger on neutral targets" can be inferred, but lmk if you want to change things or if i misread) Aerodactyl, Dragonite, and Dugtrio and Aerodactyl, blending with Thunderbolt to give it unresisted coverage. Earthquake gives Nidoking very powerful physical STAB damage, allowing it to 2HKO tier-king Tentacruel and Kadabra, as well as OHKOing Haunter and KOing Electabuzz if it's taken even slight damage. Body Slam lets Nidoking scout for potential switch-ins, potentially paralyzing them and turning the tables. Alternatively, Toxic allows Nidoking it to prevent Dragonite and Dragonair from attempting AgiliWrap sweeps.

Nidoking's movepool makes it quite customizable, and, (AC) because of its coverage being mostly filled by Earthquake provides most of its necessary coverage, (assuming that's what you meant) Thunderbolt is the most replaceable. Rock Slide can be used over Thunderbolt to deal up to 63.7% to Articuno while not sacrificing too much against Gyarados and Dewgong, but Nidoking will always lose to Articuno one-on-one if it can't KO it outright, as it's OHKOed by Blizzard. Alternatively, Submission can let Nidoking 2HKO Raticate, as well as 3HKOing Persian and Kangaskhan.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Yugon, 524119], [Plague von Karma, 236353], [Gamer1234556, 515642]]
- Quality checked by: [[phoopes, 96315], [EB0LA, 423005]]
- Grammar checked by: [[Finland, 517429]]

1/1

 

[Plague von Karma]

Implemented and uploaded, thank you~