np: NU Stage 11 - The End

Raseri

Raseri

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With the banning of Prankster + Assist, the final days of BW NU are upon us. This thread is for discussing the metagame as it is now, so things such as:

Good sets
Metagame trends
Playstyles
Cores
Overrated Pokemon
Underrated Pokemon


This is basically a catch-all thread for things that aren't in other threads in the subforum. Feel free to discuss almost anything NU related here!

If there is a need to vote on another suspect, it will be decided and information will be posted here. However, this is not a suspect thread. The NU Staff will decide on a suspect if it is decided we need to do another vote ( that is unlikely). Thank you everyone and have a great day!
 
with the recent ban, i think now is a good time to discuss pivot liepard, as it should be getting more usage now over assistcat (tho swagpard will probably still be more popular). the pivot set is very efficient at stopping some of NUs most prominent pokemon such as jynx, musharna, misdreavus and other ghost/psychic types. the great utility offered by this set is very useful for many teams, and i consider this to be one of the most reliable pokemon in nu (as i discussed in the reliability thread). it always does its job and more, so will almost never let you down. encore is a great move to have on a prankster pokemon, forcing switches so you can get kills or free momentum with pursuit and u-turn respectively.

ill probably add more later, but id be interested to hear a discussion about this set in particular after the prankster+assist ban
 
Lasagne21 said:
with the recent ban, i think now is a good time to discuss pivot liepard, as it should be getting more usage now over assistcat (tho swagpard will probably still be more popular). the pivot set is very efficient at stopping some of NUs most prominent pokemon such as jynx, musharna, misdreavus and other ghost/psychic types. the great utility offered by this set is very useful for many teams, and i consider this to be one of the most reliable pokemon in nu (as i discussed in the reliability thread). it always does its job and more, so will almost never let you down. encore is a great move to have on a prankster pokemon, forcing switches so you can get kills or free momentum with pursuit and u-turn respectively.

ill probably add more later, but id be interested to hear a discussion about this set in particular after the prankster+assist ban
Click to expand...
Pivot Liepard is probably my favorite Pokemon in NU tbh (which is why I preferred no ban over Liepard ban), no matter on what team you put it, it will offer some great utility pretty much every single time due to the amount of prominent threats it can check. While Skuntank might be better for dedicated Misdreavus/Musharna killing, Liepard's extra speed and its access to Encore allows it to put Jynx and Gardevoir in a guaranteed-loss situation (unless they carry a Choice Scarf, in which case some prediction will be needed, but alas) but not only that, it can also effectively stop a sweep when it switches in on something setting up Swords Dance, Substitute or whatever. Simply use a Prankster Encore and Pursuit for huge damage. Sucker Punch can also finish off a weakened sweeper. And seriously, whenever I find myself with a 6th slot on a team that doesn't have to be filled with anything else, I slap Liepard on, regardless of what archtype team I'm building. This thing even works on stall as a failsafe, it's fantastic.
 
Raseri you missed an excellent chance to make this beauty the NP song.


Anyways, one set I have been find super fun to use in this stage (and others since p much nothing changed), is NP Misdreavus with will-o-wisp, which I in general find to be more useful than taunt (both are super good options though). I personally like wow Misdreavus, because in stead of aiding her set up on walls, she can still be used as a utility check to offensive fighting types, or be used to plow through the opposition.

As for my thoughts on Pivot-pard, I am actually not the biggest fan, priority encore + u turn kicks ass, but Skuntank is in general just a much better psychic type trapper (I know they can't be directly compared, but they compete for a team slot). Basically, I always struggle to find place for pivot cat on my team cause I prefer the skunk, but it is definitely a really cool mon and nice when it turns out my opp isn't using swag pard :p.
 
006.gif
@ Choice Specs
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Def
Timid Nature
-Fire Blast
-Air Slash
-Flamethrower
-Focus Blast / Hidden Power Grass

Charizard is probably the Pokemon I use the most right now: this thing hits so hard it's unbelievable. Few Pokemon can switch on Charizard, and most of the time they have to take close to 40% of their health which is amazing to weaken any opponent's wall to support any of its teammates to clean the rest. I mostly see SpecZard with ScarfJynx, since Charizard can easily destroy the Steel-types in the tier and any walls to let Jynx do its job. Charizard's power shouldn't be a secret anymore, and please don't underestimate it because of its crippling Stealth Rock weakness: it is easy to play around hazards, and sometimes you can use Stealth Rock to your advantage with Blaze Fire Blasts. Last, but not least, Charizard's awsome base 100 Speed let it outspeeds a good portion of the tier, leaving it only outsped by stuff like Tauros, the Monkeys, Serperior, and Scolipede.

TLDR: Charizard is manly :pirate:
 
#1 most overated mon on ladder award should go to armaldo

#1 overated mon overal should go to kanga imo (not saying it's bad, just not that amazing)

#1 underated mon ditto

Also, greatest NP song yet but not putting the full version is an insult.
 
Banded Kangaskhan is so underrated. It lives underneath All Out attacker Kangaskhan's shadow right now, even though it can break through teams like nothing else, and can decimate just about anything late game, hitting far harder than standard kangaskhan.

Kangaskhan @ Choice Band
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Double-Edge
- Sucker Punch
- Earthquake

The most overrated pokemon is Gorebyss. Commonly used as a sweeper, the majority of scarfed pokemon outspeed it, and Pivot liepard can simply taunt it and proceed to spam pursuit. It is extremely easy to be countered and shut down, and really doesn't perform it's role that well, being Far outclassed by Rain Dance ludicolo, which mind you can set up multiple times and has stab+recovery on its grass move.

One interesting core I've seen is Porygon + Misdreavus. With them both being utility pokemon, they can shut down the majority of NU extremely quickly together.

Porygon @ Eviolite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
- Recover
- Tri Attack
- Thunder Wave
- Magic Coat

Misdreavus @ Eviolite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 220 Def / 40 Spd
Bold Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
- Taunt
 
I am going to talk a little bit about my favorite Special Wall in NU: Altaria!

Altaria has an excellent Base 105 SpD stat with a good typing. This allows it to be a good special wall with resistances to Grass, Fire, and Water-type moves, as well as an immunity to Ground-type moves. Its Stealth Rock weakness is mitigated by its reliable recovery in Roost, and Natural Cure lets it shake off any poison or sleep inflicted upon it when it switches out, making it much more difficult to cripple (especially since I play Altaria by switching it in and out repeatedly). It also has access to other support options, namely Heal Bell. In addition, it gets Toxic, Roar, and Perish Song. Here is my favorite set:

Altaria (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP/252 SpD/4 Spe
Nature: Calm
IVs: 31/0/31/31/31/31
-Dragon Pulse
-Heal Bell
-Roost
-Fire Blast/Ice Beam

This set maintains good coverage while supporting the team very well. Dragon Pulse is the main STAB and does decent damage, with exceptional neutral coverage. Heal Bell rids the team of paralysis, sleep, and poison--this is helpful because most NU clerics are Grass-types, so if your main sweeper is a Ludicolo under rain, having a non-Grass type to heal it of paralysis will be helpful. Roost lets it do its job repeatedly and minimizes the concern of the Stealth Rock weakness. Finally, a coverage move is preferred (in my case) in the last slot. Either move handles Tangela well. Fire Blast lets Altaria get through Metang, while Ice Beam handles opposing Flying-types and Torterra/Golurk.

You may prefer Perish Song, Earthquake, or another support move in the last slot. Oftentimes I use Altaria on Sun/Rain teams, replacing Leftovers with the appropriate rock and the last slot with Sunny Day/Rain Dance. In particular Altaria synergizes very well defensively with common Rain sweepers due to its resistance to Grass-type moves and immunity to Ground-type moves.
 
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Explorer said:
I am going to talk a little bit about my favorite Special Wall in NU: Altaria!

Altaria has an excellent Base 105 SpD stat with a good typing. This allows it to be a good special wall with resistances to Grass, Fire, and Water-type moves, as well as an immunity to Ground-type moves. Its Stealth Rock weakness is mitigated by its reliable recovery in Roost, and Natural Cure lets it shake off any poison or sleep inflicted upon it when it switches out, making it much more difficult to cripple (especially since I play Altaria by switching it in and out repeatedly). It also has access to other support options, namely Heal Bell. In addition, it gets Toxic, Roar, and Perish Song. Here is my favorite set:

Altaria (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP/252 SpD/4 Spe
Nature: Calm
IVs: 0/31/31/31/31/31
-Dragon Pulse
-Heal Bell
-Roost
-Fire Blast/Ice Beam

This set maintains good coverage while supporting the team very well. Dragon Pulse is the main STAB and does decent damage, with exceptional neutral coverage. Heal Bell rids the team of paralysis, sleep, and poison--this is helpful because most NU clerics are Grass-types, so if your main sweeper is a Ludicolo under rain, having a non-Grass type to heal it of paralysis will be helpful. Roost lets it do its job repeatedly and minimizes the concern of the Stealth Rock weakness. Finally, a coverage move is preferred (in my case) in the last slot. Either move handles Tangela well. Fire Blast lets Altaria get through Metang, while Ice Beam handles opposing Flying-types and Torterra/Golurk.

You may prefer Perish Song, Earthquake, or another support move in the last slot. Oftentimes I use Altaria on Sun/Rain teams, replacing Leftovers with the appropriate rock and the last slot with Sunny Day/Rain Dance. In particular Altaria synergizes very well defensively with common Rain sweepers due to its resistance to Grass-type moves and immunity to Ground-type moves.
Click to expand...

Hmm I think Altaria is a pretty decent mon in NU, and can definitely be useful on more balanced/defensive teams. I feel like you are accidentally running 0 HP IVs, otherwise I would be very confused. I think the one huge downside to Altaria as a special wall, is that Jynx is the premier special attacker in NU and donks Altaria. Fire Blast or toxic in the last slot imo, as toxic gives consistent damage, and fire blast makes you not set up fodder for many steel type pokemon (and Jynx can't switch in). Also the EV spread should be 248 HP/252 SpD/8 Spe, as to switch into rocks more times. But yeah, I really like having a cleric with natural cure, it is just super convenient.
 
atomicllamas said:
Hmm I think Altaria is a pretty decent mon in NU, and can definitely be useful on more balanced/defensive teams. I feel like you are accidentally running 0 HP IVs, otherwise I would be very confused. I think the one huge downside to Altaria as a special wall, is that Jynx is the premier special attacker in NU and donks Altaria. Fire Blast or toxic in the last slot imo, as toxic gives consistent damage, and fire blast makes you not set up fodder for many steel type pokemon (and Jynx can't switch in). Also the EV spread should be 248 HP/252 SpD/8 Spe, as to switch into rocks more times. But yeah, I really like having a cleric with natural cure, it is just super convenient.
Click to expand...

I fixed that issue...it was supposed to be 0 Atk IVs.

Speaking of Jynx, it establishes the importance of the Base 95 Speed Tier, so any Scarfer faster than that has a good chance of nipping Jynx in the bud. Here is one with base 100 speed that I like:

Fearow (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Keen Eye
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Nature: Jolly
-Drill Peck
-Return/Double-Edge
-U-turn
-Drill Run

Fearow is chosen over Dodrio for much better coverage, and it can successfully revenge-kill the two premier Scarfers in NU: Jynx and Primeape. While it cannot safely switch into either, if it gets a free switch into either, it can force them out or KO them with U-turn and Drill Peck, respectively. Drill Run is chosen to hit Rock and Steel-types (which completely wall Dodrio and force it out), and Return is another reliable STAB with no recoil. The two threats it checks are both so common that it gives Fearow fair reason to be used as a Scarfer.
 
I've never used Fearow, althought I would anticipate it to be pretty good in revenge killing prime threats. I've never used Fearow myself, mainly because I never got around to it, and probably because of Jynx running around, I never thought of it. I have used Dodrio though, its an alright Banded mon, since it learns Brave Bird and return. My favorite scarfer to actually use even in this gen is Jynx,because Jynx is just an amazing mon :) She has the speed she needs to outspeed a lot of tier, bar mons like Raichu and ELectabuzz if they are scarfed.

One of my favorites to use lately has been Zangoose,because he has a superb ability in TOxic Boost and dent a lot of walls and other mons in the tier. Facade with Toxic boost just destroys Alomomola,(I think its a 2hko from 100%), but you do have to watch your toxic turns, as they will rack up with each turn. Close Combat does hit rock types effectively, like Regirock, who can take Facades for days. Zangoose is a good late game mon from my experience, being able to set up at the end of the game to achieve a sweep,unless of course, your opponent haxes you and gets a freeze on yoru Zangoose.(happened to me like twice late game) Zangoose,Sadly enough, does lose to Alomomola if it doesn't have high HP, because Alomomola can just TOxic stall to oblivion. Really, the only thing to do is toxic stall Zangoose fi you don't have a solid counter to him on your team, but there's always mons like Regirock. Zangoose is a really fun mon to build a team around,mainly because FACADE WREKS EVURYTHENG.
 
I don't like Fearow too much due to it's overall low damage output due to mediocre base attack. It outspeed Shell Smashers but cant do much to them which is problematic for a scarfer.

252 Atk Fearow vs. -1 0 HP / 4 Def Carracosta: 158-188 (54.67 - 65.05%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

This is Fearow's best case scenario for Carracosta since it doesnt run solid rock nor white herb but your still screwed.

Zangoose is a mon im also loving atm. The meta is getting slower again and with that coverage it destroys opposing teams fairly easy. Pass it a sub with something like Pede or Drif to get it in safely and wreck away :)
 
I threw together a (really) quick team the other day filled with shit that I hardly ever (if ever) use except for Probopass which is just always fantastic and had a lot of fun with a few underrated mons. Choice Band Arbok was my favorite part of the team. It's not that good, but Choice Band Gunk Shot does a shitton to a lot of stuff. Plus, it gets Switcheroo to mess around with stallier teams that don't really mind it, and it absorbs Toxic Spikes.

Another cool mon on that team was pivot Gurdurr which is really fantastic. I already had a different status absorber on that team, so I was running Eviolite Iron Fist with max HP and Atk and Drain Punch, Mach Punch, Stone Edge (for Scolipede), and Knock Off. Pivot sets on Gurdurr are in general far more valuable in this current metagame because Bulk Up rarely gets the chance to sweep with opposing teams being packed with offensive threats that put major pressure on it. Bulk Up definitely does better against stall, but in my experience isn't as valuable as having something that can switch in on certain attackers and lay on the hurt immediately. Pivot Gurdurr gives you priority and a strong STAB recovery option alongside coverage and utility with Stone Edge for Scolipede or Ice Punch for Golurk and Knock Off for Eviolite mons and bulky stuff in general or Toxic for the same stuff. Plus, if you DO need a status absorber, you get one with Guts. Overall, it's a really great Pokemon, and I wish I'd run it more in past stages before BW NU died.
 
been playing stall because why the fuck not? munchlax / musharna / roselia is a hilarious defensive core and i threw in mandibuzz to patch up it up (golurk can be a pain). threw piloswine on to function as a cool offensive stealth rock setter and ice shard is extremely useful at times. piloswine also scares golurk who i hate. scolipede is a great cleaner and can lay down spikes if i really need some. really you only need 5 pokemon for a defensive core since so many mons are one dimensional and munchlax walls every fucking special attacker in the tier (lo jynx focus blast is a 4hko n_n). i should probably add missy somewhere but i've been liking it how it is. if anyone is interested

Munchlax @ Eviolite
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Careful Nature
- Body Slam
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Whirlwind

Musharna @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 SDef
Calm Nature
- Baton Pass
- Psychic
- Heal Bell
- Moonlight

Roselia @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Toxic Spikes
- Rest

Piloswine @ Eviolite
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard

Mandibuzz @ Leftovers
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 248 HP / 148 Def / 112 Spd
Bold Nature
- Foul Play
- Taunt
- Roost
- Toxic

Scolipede @ Life Orb
Ability: Swarm
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Megahorn
- Rock Slide
- Aqua Tail
- Spikes
 
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Just wanted to post about how cool Primeape is as a sun lead. It can set up sun, can Encore opponent into SR so it can get the upper hand on the second sun turn, and U-turn out, and get the advantage over whatever the opponent tries to bring in. It's also fast which means a lot of the time it's going to get sun up and has enough power to do damage to teams late game without needing a Life Orb (as it has the power it'd have if it was using Scarf). I don't even need to use another SR setter - ape is the only one I use in the whole match and it's surprisingly easy for it to stay alive. Has anyone else tried this or something more interesting outside of the normal weather setters? Because damn, Primeape is amazingly good.
 
i liked using sunny day scarf haunter with dbond/trick because it was a nice last-ditch effort for a sun mon to sweep. also custap golem with sunny day was also cool but im assuming that its "standard' although i dont really think there is a set "standard" for any weather team imo
 
skylight said:
Just wanted to post about how cool Primeape is as a sun lead. It can set up sun, can Encore opponent into SR so it can get the upper hand on the second sun turn, and U-turn out, and get the advantage over whatever the opponent tries to bring in. It's also fast which means a lot of the time it's going to get sun up and has enough power to do damage to teams late game without needing a Life Orb (as it has the power it'd have if it was using Scarf). I don't even need to use another SR setter - ape is the only one I use in the whole match and it's surprisingly easy for it to stay alive. Has anyone else tried this or something more interesting outside of the normal weather setters? Because damn, Primeape is amazingly good.
Click to expand...

Primeape is hella good at leading Sun teams as you said.

But has anybody tried out Mandibuzz as a sun setter? With access to roost, it can come in multiple times and set up sun, in tandem with it's amazing bulk. It also has access to Foul Play, making it an immediate offensive threat as well to physically offensive pokemon. It also has access to U-Turn, allowing it to safely bring in it's sun sweeper teammates. It can also potentially carry Taunt to prevent hazards, as well as Tailwind if you legitimately need it. While Mandibuzz isn't the optimal sun setter, it is an interesting choice with tons of toys to play with.

I would also like to point out that both Rotom-S and Rotom-F know Sunny Day, making them great assets to any sun team, with their above average bulk, great speed, and access to Volt Switch, again allowing them to bring in teammates safely! They are so underrated on sun and rain teams, yet are highly efficient at bringing the weather up.
 
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Annoyer said:
i liked using sunny day scarf haunter with dbond/trick because it was a nice last-ditch effort for a sun mon to sweep. also custap golem with sunny day was also cool but im assuming that its "standard' although i dont really think there is a set "standard" for any weather team imo
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Haunter as a sun setter ?
I dunno, but to me, I see better sun leads really, I'm not too keen on using something so frail, I'd rather use some mon that can take more hits, like Regirock for example, maybe Golem like you mentioned, that does sound interesting. BUt the most success I've had with a Sun Setter, would have to be Volbeat, because he gets Prankster, meaning his is always gonna go up first. Now, I might try Haunter as one, but I dunno. Golem does look like it could work, but how would he benefit from the sun ? But then again, the same thing can be said for Volbeat, because Volbeat doesn't get much really, and he can learn moonlight,which I think if I remember heals more in weather ?

Now, I'll move onto Lumineon, as another user mentioned. Lumineon, is an okay mon from my experience, but really only because of storm drain. With Storm Drain, Lumineon can act as a decent water immunity to the team, and can also dish out some decent damage. I mean, personally, I wouldn't use Lumineon if I wanted to do more damage in rain, I'd use Ludicolo, as his type is better in the rain offensively, rather than Lumineon. Also, Lumineon's stats are kinda lackuster, because only 2 stats aren't that bad, and that's its speed and special defense. But hey, if your making a team with perverts, guess it could work..It's got 3 stats, all 69.
 
I think it's Liepard the best sun/rain setter. It has the same Volbeat ability (Prankster) and Encore yet. But its statistics are better than "little firefly" and Taunt (above all), U-Turn and Foul Play fill out very well this good weather supporter.
 
Volbeat also learns encore, and most weather sweepers enjoy a slow u-turn to them so they don't die before they can sweep. Liepard works just fine, but Volbeat is sexier for most teams.
 
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31849-why-dont-we-have-both-gif-meme-IfmC.gif


But really, the combo of the two is really good. The advantage of Liepard is that it can also take down Psychic-types, especially Gardevoir, with Pursuit or Sucker Punch, and they are usually troublesome for weather teams because of Trace. Having 2 Prankster weather setters usually means weather is reliably out throughout the game, which is good.
 
from my experiebces having two prankster settersis bad because they tend to do nothig except set sun and put more pressure on the rest of the team. i do think that liepard is the better of the two since it has a much more useful typing and has a decent attack stat and sucker punch which lets it do more than just set sun
 
FLCL said:
from my experiebces having two prankster settersis bad because they tend to do nothig except set sun and put more pressure on the rest of the team. i do think that liepard is the better of the two since it has a much more useful typing and has a decent attack stat and sucker punch which lets it do more than just set sun
Click to expand...
I dunno, Dark is okay for Liepard (Pursuit, Sucker Punch, and Foul Play are all useful) but Volbeat can actually tank resisted hits like Fighting, Ground and Grass which Sun or Rain teams don't particularly appreciate, and can Baton Pass to do more than just set up Sun also (Solar Power Charizard behind HP-free Sub, shudders). I feel Liepard performs as a weather-setter with offensive capability, while Volbeat allows you to secure your position better with Baton Pass / slow U-turns. The fact that both have Encore is icing on the cake.
 
Spr_5b_476.png

| 27 | Probopass | 6.68849% | 11265 | 5.061% | 10132 | 5.638% |1850 Stats

Being one of the few Pokemon able to check both Charizard and Jynx, Probopass can do a lot of good things in this metagame. It can set up the always important Stealth Rock quite easily with Sturdy, or even go on a more offensive route with Magnet Pull to trap the Steel-types that gained popularity ever since Jynx was unbanned. Not only does it check those two dangerous threats, Probopass deals perfectly with the good ol' Musharna and SubBU Braviary (or Psychic- and Flying-types in general) with both Toxic and Power Gem, which is extremely good for a single Pokemon. It even has a slow Volt Switch to bring in its teammates safely, making Probopass an amazing pivot.

Does it deserve more usage? or is Probopass overrated? I honestly think Probopass is amazing with what I've previously mentioned, but I would like to know everyone's opinion on this manly 'stache!
 
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