Metagame NP: NU Stage 4 - A Whole New World (Bans on post #160)

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Toxtricity and Porygon-Z should both go. I won't talk much about Toxtricity since others have articulated why it's bad for the tier pretty well.

As for Porygon-Z, all of its viable sets are too problematic for it to stay and not be unhealthy. Choice Specs doesn't have checks and any switch-in is based on an unreliable prediction, and if you have no ghost resist and your best normal resist is something like spd Copperajah, that still takes 31% on average from specs Tri Attack. Unless if you have wish support, mons like Bronzong (which can be dealt with if you run dpulse/sball) and Copperajah do not have the sustainability to properly check these mons. Also, Porygon2 and Milotic leaving the tier don't do any favours. Porygon-Z isn't particularly difficult to get into battle either—the numerous viable pivots we have pair well with it, and while its defences are middling, it can still come in directly against bulkier mons if need be. The opposite player not knowing what Porygon-Z's set is can also result in bluffing Scarf or Specs, and a misstep from the player usually results in a mon having to be sacked in order to find out the set. Scarfed sets are threatening in their own right too, as well as setup sets under veil—if Porygon-Z manages to successfully set up, which isn't that hard under veil—it's near impossible to stop it, especially late-game, which goes for basically all Porygon-Z sets too. While some think banning Toxtricity then reassessing Porygon-Z would be best, I don't believe this will lead to anything useful. If anything, more people will start using Porygon-Z and then it'll truly be far too much for the tier to handle.

I think Mienshao is borderline currently, and I think it would benefit from a suspect test in the future. Everyone knows how good and omnipresent Scarf is: one of our fastest mons; strong STAB with fantastic coverage in Knock Off, Stone Edge or Poison Jab as well the utility of U-turn; invaluable Regenerator ability which is basically what makes this mon too much. But aside from Scarf sets, non-choiced and even Banded sets is what pushes Mienshao over the edge. Life Orb 4 attacks or even Swords Dance sets are ridiculous to counter, as many instantly assume Scarf and go into a fat mon that can tank one hit to scout or a Ghost-type, and non-Scarf sets exploit this style extremely well. While we definitely do have checks to Mienshao, Knock Off or U-turn into a breaker topped off with recovery from Regenerator instantly puts the opposition in the backseat. I don't know if it's entirely banworthy right now, but I still hold the belief that it should be taken into consideration for a test, especially with Noivern, Slowbro-Galar and Milotic no longer in the tier.

While Bewear isn't as strikingly problematic as the mons above, its Fluffy-augmented bulk, high attack stat, and incredible movepool (SD, access to recovery through dpunch, darkest lariat etc) make Bewear an issue. To illustrate how bulky this thing actually is, it takes, on average, about 65% from Mienshao's Close Combat, with no defensive investment and no Chople Berry. While yes, Bewear falls flat when it comes to Special Defence, you can't ignore how easy it is for Bewear to come in against NU's most common Pokemon, namely Copperajah. Even if there are Special Attackers for Bewear on the opposing team, it's rare Bewear would be OHKOed from full, which isn't really hard to maintain given Drain Punch recovery and good bulk. I'm unsure on what mon is more problematic out of Bewear and Mienshao right now; I don't think people have caught onto Bewear as much, whereas Mienshao is everywhere and it is more unpredictable and versatile than Bewear with Life Orb or Band sets being amazing.

Sigilyph's speed, Magic Guard, and expansive coverage have made it a talking point. Calm Mind + Roost sets are incredibly difficult to manage with most go-to Psychic checks, e.g. Steel-types, being rendered useless due to Heat Wave. While Drapion did just drop to NU, it is not coming in safely against Air Slash or Heat Wave. I've also seen some Psycho Shift + Flame Orb sets which cripple checks like Copperajah and Bronzong, and while they are slightly gimmicky, pressuring Sigiyph with Copperajah then finishing it off with a faster mon is the way most teams deal with it. Haze Milotic and Teleport Porygon2 just having left doesn't help either, since these mons were a way to soften a Sigilyph weakness on a team. Having said that, we still do have a fair amount of countermeasures like Heliolisk, Guzzlord, Zoro and more, and as of right now, I don't think Sigilyph pressures the metagame as much as Mienshao and Bewear do.
 

etern

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Porygon-Z and Toxtricity have been banned from NU. (The Immortal Marty)

:porygon-z: Porygon-Z was banned due to it's solid speed tier when coupled with insane wallbreaking potential off its massive SpA and ability 'Adaptability'. Only a small pool of Pokemon were able to stomach hits from Porygon-Z, and virtually none of them had reliable recovery making them incredibly easy to muscle past with either a coverage move or repeated whittling. Porygon-Z also had the ability to run boosting sets with either Nasty Plot, Agility, or a combination of both to absolutely dismantle balanced and offensive teams alike, making its pool of counterplay too small for how easy it was to wreak havoc with.

:toxtricity: Simply speaking, Toxtricity had virtually no defensive counterplay. It's Choice Specs set had insane neutral coverage, only being resisted by a handful of Pokemon like Rhydon (which lacks recovery and required a full on SpD build to withstand more than a couple Boombursts), and Palossand which could be lured and smacked with Snarl. Toxtricity created a metagame based on who could bring out their own first and deal the initial blow, making games feel less dependant on skill and moreso on coinflip predictions, thus it was banned by majority.

And with that out of the way, NU can now formally begin entering the suspect process of tiering, something I know many of you have been greatly anticipating. Stay tuned throughout the next week as our first test is announced, and until then let us know how the meta is without P-Z and Toxtricity.
 

Finchinator

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Sigilyph or Bewear should be the first suspect imo.

The former has a variety of sets that range from immediately threatening to get kills to potentially threatening to win outright at any point in the game. Magic Guard coupled with impressive speed, a great utility movepool, and an underrated offensive movepool allows for Sigilyph to be one of the most disruptive presences. I think that what makes this hard for me is that there is no one set that is outright broken to me, but the overlap in counterplay between sets is minimal. The right Guzzlord set can do the trick if it lacks specific coverage options, Drapion may be a handy tool if it does not have to take a rare Flying move or a Flame Orb shifted burn, and a handful of Pokemon can check specific sets or revenge kill a non-defense boosted Sigilyph, but cannot counter it. I feel that it is likely on the broken side due to its versatility allowing for counterplay to be inconsistent and arguably minimized earlier in games due to the lack of set clarity, but I also am not as sure on it as I was the quickbans.

As for the latter, it just has no counters. SD Chople does the trick. CB is checkable and has potential to backfire, so I'm not as sold on it, but SD Chople is superb. Unlike Sigilyph, it does not need versatility or some everlasting façade of unpredictability when it has a single, catch-all set. Coverage for Ghosts + dual STABs hitting just about everything else is brilliant. Cresselia is as close as we will get to an answer defensively, but that is not going to take repeated blows if it is the common SubCM variant and cannot come close to OHKOing Bewear. Plenty of things can RK a chipped Bewear, especially on the special end, but the thing is that Bewear can often come in for an equally potent r2 after it forces an initial KO that allows the frail revenge killer to come in. I think it may be saved by its lack of speed if the metagame trends offensive in the next week or two, but personally I would lean towards ban here as well.

Not sold on Mienshao yet, but want to try out LO more before drawing a conclusion.
 

Rabia

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I agree with esteemed user Finchinator that one of Sigilyph and Bewear should be the first test; personally, I lean more that Sigilyph is the greater issue.

Bewear is dumb because it lacks cohesive defensive counterplay and even offensive counterplay to some extent because of its insane Fluffy-boosted physical bulk, but I think the games of determining which set Sigilyph is running truly take it over the edge. Between Calm Mind and Psycho Shift sets, you're one poor scout away from your answer to it being taken out of commission and Sigilyph running rough shod over the rest of your team. Furthermore, Sigilyph's Speed tier being where it's at is pretty convenient for it because slower options like Cresselia and Pangoro can't try to stifle its progress, whereas Bewear has a bit larger of a pool of faster Pokemon that can threaten it. This isn't to minimize Bewear's effect on the tier---it's truly one of the most potent breakers NU currently has and more than makes up for any shortcomings with all the positive traits it possesses---but I think Sigilyph has a more constricting effect on the tier because its general counterplay is more limited in scope and was made even smaller with Porygon2's exit from the tier this month.
 
Howdy, everybody! Torracat maniac Catalisador here to give my quick thoughts on a few critters that are dominating the current SS NU metagame as of lately: our Fighting-types!

:ss/mienshao:

This little fellow excels at everything it does, from its S tier Choice Scarf set to its also extremely consistent Life Orb 4 Atks set: Mienshao is synonymous with consistency. Thanks to its extremely high 125 Attack stat coupled with decent 105 Speed, near-perfect coverage and one of the best abilities in the game in Regenerator - complimenting its pivotting job perfectly -, Mienshao quickly solidified itself as the best absolutely pokémon in the metagame (with Copperajah close behind).

:ss/pangoro:

A top-tier wallbreaking pokémon in the SS NU metagame, Pangoro's raw power allows it to muscle through even the sturdiest of defensive walls such as Vileplume and Mudsdale. Furthermore, secondary Dark-type STAB Knock Off gives Pangoro an edge over other slow Fighting-typing breakers.

:ss/bewear:

Astronomically high Attack stat, dual STAB and access to Fluffy to enhance its already good physical bulk to stellar levels makes the little panda an absolute monster, rivalring Pangoro's breaking prowess. Definitely one of the most powerful Fighting-type in the tier.

:ss/machamp:

Machamp differentiates itself from the likes of Pangoro and Bewear thanks to its great coverage moves and access to Guts giving it status immunity. Furthermore, thanks to only needing Flame Orb to get an effective Choice Band boost, it is able to switch between its moves with no drawback, making for an extremely underrated threat in the current SS NU metagame.

:ss/sirfetch

Although it started off as the weakest of our little Fighting-type critters, Sirfetch'd has risen up to be a top-tier pick. With Slowbro-Galar gone, arguably one of its hardest walls, the duck can be used much more effectively. Moreover, access to Brave Bird allows it to one-shot the mighty Vileplume and First Impression gives it a strong revenge-killing option, differentiating itself from other Fighting-types. Its Speed tier is also the best amongst our slow gutsy critters, giving it an edge over the likes of Pangoro, Bewear and Machamp on a 1 on 1 matchup. Definitely recommend trying it out!

Overall, I think we have a real good Fighting-type diversity, which I personally really love! :psywoke:
 
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Been doing a bit of testing with Drapion, and I can write that he's one of the best mons in the current metagame. While I haven't tested its choice scarf set, its SD + Taunt set is potent in pressuring many of the defensive and offensive staples right now, not limited to Bronzong, Comfey, Dhelmise, Sylveon, and Vileplume. Furthermore, stab Knock Off is not easy to come in on, as even itemless mons like the aforementioned Vileplume does not want to switch in, get Taunted, and then get KO'ed. And unlike other offensive mons like Flygon, Drapion doesn't suffer too much from a 4MSS since it'll always have some utility in Knock Off, Toxic Spikes, or Taunt.

:sm/drapion:

Drapion @ Black Sludge
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab
- Swords Dance
- Taunt / Toxic Spikes / Earthquake

Drapion @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab
- Toxic Spikes

It still has checks, most notably Mudsdale, and the fact that its speed tier isn't the best makes it prone to being RK'd by Aerodactyl and Inteleon. Regardless, its a strong mon able to break through a good portion of the tier, and as the metagame settles, I think a suspect test may be needed due to how it can be a tad difficult to check once he gets a +2 boost. Until then, have fun while you can with it because it's seriously versatile as a revenge killer, sweeper, wallbreaker, and TS setter (though the latter faces some competition from Dragalge).
 
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