Hey everyone, the NU council has come to a decision on what we are doing with regards to the newest drops to the NU Tier in Entei and Glastrier. We decided to have a council vote on both, as we have NU Open Round 2 coming up soon and we have come to a decision. This is how the vote turned out:
A quick TLDR before we jump into it: Entei and Glastrier were both banned via council vote. However, the council only voted on Glastrier with the caveat that it will be publicly tested right after the council vote. This means that we are having a test on Glastrier right now!
In the short time Entei has graced NU, it has already shown itself to be one of the most threatening Pokemon in the metagame. With great stats across the board, a unique stab move that cripples its checks, and a deep movepool that allows for dangerous set variety, it is too much for the metagame to handle.The primary set you see is currently Choice Band, which carries the dangerous STAB move Sacred Fire. This move enables it to cripple common switch-ins such as Diancie and Flygon with a burn, rendering them ineffective as checks. Entei also has a host of coverage moves to hit its checks such as Stone Edge and Iron Head, as well as Extreme Speed to revenge kill Pokemon faster than it. Together this makes Choice Band Entei very tough to check as it becomes a guessing game on what move it will lock into, and even if you manage to play around the coverage correctly, there is still a 50% chance you end up getting burnt by Sacred Fire whenever it decides to click it.
The other set that also works very well is SubCM, Vintei. This set takes advantage of Entei’s bulk and ability Pressure to outlast its checks with Protect and Substitute, while simultaneously setting up Calm Mind boosts, enabling it to rip through teams. Pressure in particular is key for this set to function, as it can quickly leave checks to it scrambling to keep it in check long term due to losing PP on moves that can break its sub. Examples of this can be seen with moves like Flygons Earthquake, or Vaporeons Scald, both of which can be stalled out by the combination of Pressure and the cycling of Sub and Protect. Lava Plume is the STAB of choice, as once again, this move can burn common checks and allow Entei to set up on Pokemon that it normally wouldn’t be able to.
While the two sets are threatening on their own, the fact they hold almost no checks and counters in common makes it over-centralizing to build around, which is one of the primary reasons this ban was unanimous. This can be seen by the fact that most bulky waters are fairly good checks to the Choice Band set, however, they can all face issues against Calm Mind unless they run techs like Haze on Vaporeon.
At this point you may be questioning, "Meri, the council voted to ban Glastrier, yet the title shows that this is a suspect thread, whats up with that?". Well the answer to that comes from the fact that when the council voted on Glastrier, we all voted with the key note that we would be having an immediate public retest on Glastrier directly after the vote, which is what this thread is! There are a few reasons we decided to do it this way. The first of which is the fact that as a council most of us feel that we have not had time to effectively judge Glastrier in the time it has been here. We've only been able to use it for a short time, and we want to make sure that we get the decision right at the end of the day. With NU Open starting its next round soon, we want to give the public a chance to vote on this mon that we see as more borderline, while at the same time not having a potentially broken mon being used in the early rounds of the tournament. This brings us to the solution that we are proceeding with, a council ban followed by a suspect test! Now lets move onto the reasons on why Glastrier is being tested.Glastrier is truly one of the more unique mons that has made its way down to NU this generation. It has amazing stats that center around its bulk and attack and a good set of physical coverage moves, which allow it to find its way to the top of the tier.
There have been a few sets that have already popped up, some more threatening than the others, with the first one being Sub ID. This set allows Glastrier to take advantage of its bulk and weight, using Substitute on common Pokemon such as Vaporeon and Copperajah without the chance of the Substitute breaking. This allows it to set up Iron Defense boosts safely, which can make Glastrier really hard to kill for fatter teams, while allowing it to break the opposing player’s team with Body Press. This can also allow it to eat offensive hits behind a sub from more common mons on offense like Flygon and Talonflame, allowing it to set up more Iron Defenses or just get more kills. The Substitute can also allow it to avoid status like Toxic or Burn, which would otherwise be able to chip it down.
Other sets also exist, and are able to be just as threatening. For example, Swords Dance sets take advantage of its stellar bulk and base 145 attack stat, as well as Chilling Neigh, to break through teams. This set has access to dangerous coverage such as Close Combat, High Horsepower, and Throat Chop to break through common Pokemon in the metagame. Its bulk also makes it hard to revenge kill, as most of the tier struggles to do much damage to it even with a super effective move. This can be highlighted with the fact that from full it can even eat a Close Combat from Leek Sirfetch'd, or on the special side it can easily eat unboosted fire moves from Salazzle.
It’s bulk is something else for an Offensive Mon in NU, hosting defensive stats that rival that of Cresselia, a Pokemon that we previously banned for setting up on too many Pokemon due to its phenomenal bulk. However, its mono-Ice typing makes for many weaknesses to common breakers such as Sirfetch’d, Salazzle, and Tyrantrum, making it much less effective unless behind a Substitute. This typing also forces Glastrier to either run Heavy-Duty Boots or take 25% from rocks, which is challenging for a defensive Pokemon without recovery. This puts its substitute sets in a weird situation as well, where running Boots would allow it to come in more easily throughout the game and mean teams do not have to worry about hazards being up, but it loses key leftovers recovery meaning it would have to rely on wish passes from partners in order to stay healthy. Most teams decide to give up the boots, which forces them to run more sturdy hazard control, which is a luxury in a more boots heavy metagame.
It is also a very good breaker against common defensive cores, with its base 145 attack, coverage, and set-up moves making it nearly impossible to handle with just 1 Pokemon. Its ability also allows it to snowball against teams, boosting its attack for every kill its able to get. However, mono-Ice typing also holds it back in this regard, as it cannot hit common defensive Pokemon such as Vaporeon or Bronzong without coverage. It is also very slow, only hitting base 30 speed, which allows most Pokemon and all other breakers to outspeed it if its running any amount of bulk.
Reading this is mandatory for participating in the suspect test. The voting requirements are a minimum GXE of 79 with at least 50 games played. In addition, you may play 1 less game for every 0.2 GXE you have above 79 GXE, down to a minimum of 30 games at a GXE of 83. Also, needing more than 50 games to reach 79 GXE will suffice. **It is now 79 GXE**
GXE | minimum games |
79 | 50 |
79.2 | 49 |
79.4 | 48 |
79.6 | 47 |
79.8 | 46 |
80 | 45 |
80.2 | 44 |
80.4 | 43 |
80.6 | 42 |
80.8 | 41 |
81 | 40 |
81.2 | 39 |
81.4 | 38 |
81.6 | 37 |
81.8 | 36 |
82 | 35 |
82.2 | 34 |
82.4 | 33 |
82.6 | 32 |
82.8 | 31 |
83 | 30 |
- You must signup with a newly registered account on Pokemon Showdown! that begins with the appropriate prefix for the suspect test. For this suspect test, the prefix will be NUGT. For example, I might signup with the ladder account NUGT meri
- Laddering with an account that impersonates, mocks, or insults another Smogon user or breaks Pokemon Showdown! rules may be disqualified from voting and infracted. Moderator discretion will be applied here. If there is any doubt or hesitance when making the alt, just pick another name. There are infinite possibilities and we have had trouble for this repeatedly. If you wish to participate in the suspect, you should be able to exhibit decent enough judgement here. We will not be lenient.
- We will be using the regular NU ladder for this suspect test. We will not be creating a new Suspect Ladder. At the beginning of every battle, there will be an announcement denoting the ongoing suspect with a link to this thread.
- The aspects being tested, Glastrier, will be allowed on the ladder.
- Any form of voting manipulation will result in swift and severe punishment. You are more than welcome to state your argument to as many people as you so please, but do not use any kind of underhanded tactics to get a result you desire. Bribery, blackmail, or any other type of tactic used to sway votes will be handled and sanctioned.
- Do not attempt to cheat the ladder. We will know if you did not actually achieve voting requisites, so don't do it. Harsh sanctions will be applied.
- The suspect test will go on for two weeks, lasting until April 25th at 11:59 pm (GMT-4), and then we will put up the voting thread in the Blind Voting subforum.
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