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July tier shifts have arrived, and as predicted, Flygon rose to RU. This is surely to cause significant change to the metagame, so council will be paying close attention to threats like Salazzle and others that Flygon played a key role in containing. Additionally, we've heard your calls for action against Sirfetch'd and Blastoise and are currently deliberating what our course of action will be.
Short post about Rotom-Mow because I don't have time to cover all the mons like Salazzle, Drap, Copperajah & Toxicroak. I hope someone will talk about how crazy these will be. :3
Anyway:
Oh boy, everyone get your pitchfork and torches ready; it is time to boycot a mon.
I think we all know why Rotom-Mow benefits from the rise of Flygon. Its dual stab combination was already a pain to switch into, but with NU losing the most viable (i WONT count gunfisk) way of blocking Volt Switch while not getting dunked by stab Leaf Storm many people in the community theorized about it and came to the conclusion that it will be close to, if not, broken. Having a basically free Volt Switch because no Electric immunity can reliably take a stab Leaf Storm makes Rotom-Mow an incredible pivot, wallbreaker & cleaner. The potential of Subsitute + Nasty Plot sets in order to take advantage of people scouting with Protect what move a potential Choice Scarf Rotom-Mow goes for makes it even more threatening. Good utility options in Trick, Defog, Pain Split and Will-O-Wisp makes it also harder to check for pokemon like Guzzlord.
Specially defensive Dragon types like Dragalge, Goodra and Guzzlord are still solid options to check Rotom-Mow and pairing it with Electric immunities like Mudsdale or Golurk can at least discourrage the use of Volt Switch. Sadly, that realistically only works vs Choice Scarf Rotom-Mow because otherwise Leaf Storm into a following Volt Switch should always be the safest play.
I am really unsure how the metagame will adapt and what might rise in usage; maybe it IS time for gunfisk? haha nvm, never will be.
I am going to talk about a criminally underrated pokemon that gets far better with the departure of flygon: Gigalith
Gigalith is able to check a large number of special attackers and support pokemon in the metagame such as dragalge, espeon, exploud, garbodor, goodra, heliolisk, ninjask, salazzle, sylveon, talonflame, xatu, and zoroark. Rather than relying on status or stalling them out, it is able to threaten them directly with its rock stab + earthquake coverage while tanking their attacks with ease due to its excellent all around bulk. The only two pokemon that could shrug off its rock blast + earthquake + toxic combination while not being forced to recover were flygon and bronzong. Of these, only flygon could remove stealth rock. With the departure of flygon, that only leaves the passive bronzong, who lacks recovery and often gets overwhelmed checking other threats such as vileplume, rotom-C, and vaporeon, often losing its item or getting burned in the process.
Furthermore, with the departure of flygon, Gigalith is now able to beat or outlast every form of hazard removal in the tier. The flying types like talonflame and mantine get shredded due to stab rock blast, while the grasses take at least neutral damage and have poor recovery, all the while getting chipped by sandstorm.
The departure of flygon could turn this previously C rank pokemon into a high tier pick in NU, unshackling it from the tyranny of NU landorus-t.
July tier shifts have arrived, and as predicted, Flygon rose to RU. This is surely to cause significant change to the metagame, so council will be paying close attention to threats like Salazzle and others that Flygon played a key role in containing. Additionally, we've heard your calls for action against Sirfetch'd and Blastoise and are currently deliberating what our course of action will be.
Right out the gate, Electric-types are kind of insane, from what I can tell. My pick for today was Heliolisk, but they all actually go ham now that they don't have to fear losing momentum to Flygon. Quagsire does not change much for several of them, either.
Hyper Voice, especially with something like Silk Scarf, is a nice tool to threaten stuff with, especially if you can get it in on a Water-type. Even if something like Bronzong or Diancie comes in to sponge it, it can just Volt Switch right out afterwards. Even if Quagsire opted to go SpD to avoid a 2HKO from Hyper Voice, it would still risk Grass Knot, which remains a decent move for the likes of Golurk and Mudsdale as well.
The Volt Switch factory itself suddenly fears little, as the vast majority of Electric-immune Pokemon will fall to Leaf Storm. Every Rotom-Mow set seems scary to face at the moment. Pretty self-explanatory.
Does have to worry about Quagsire (your best move there is probably Specs Analytic Tri Attack), but otherwise another pick that greatly benefits from the fast Ground pivot with recovery being (fly)gone. Magnet Pull remains a great way to force damage onto Steels (for the likes of CM Comfey, Ninjask, and the like) while having a solid matchup against our Wish users.
Also worth trying, imo
----
So, now what? Who will save us? Not sure, but I think Pokemon like the following could rise to the challenge.
Actually manages to wall the above with Wish/Spiky Shield and Lightningrod, and also has access to cool stuff like U-turn.
Walls them, but might struggle to actually beat Rotom-Mow without Toxic access. Better start using Sludge Bomb
idk man just throwing stuff out there. Rindo with Sludge Bomb?
Volt Switch is pretty good when you have Leaf Storm ready in the back.
is a natural fit for "top thread" in a post-Flygon metagame in my eyes. It was already a potent offensive threat with the ability to force incremental progress better than just about everything, but now it feels like a top tier breaker, too. Obviously it is fragile and support reliant, so I would not imagine it gets too crazy, but I think Salazzle is now a very reliable and fierce offensive threat.
likes one less Ground type around and also abuses the presence of Rotom-Mow and Salazzle, which is a pretty big plus. Another thing is that Bronzong did well against Flygon and it does well against Dragalge, so perhaps one being gone opens the door up for a bit more varied usage and less preparedness for Dragalge.
this feels like the perfect NU Pokemon honestly. I think it gets slightly better here for a few reasons -- more Poisons, more reasons to use the tank set, less RH Flygon, perhaps less Bronzong, etc.
etc. perhaps Quagsire will open the door for stall teams to be consistent again? Too early to have any indication though
and find themselves a bit more open offensively and happy with their speed tiers now, which could give us a lot of different structures featuring them as offensive centerpieces
Rotom-C is obviously a great Pokemon, but Heliolkisk is now more free to run choiced sets despite being reliant on Volt Switch, which will likely help a bit.
They will surely appreciate the prevalence of more poison types and the lack of Ground type competition.
Going to play a bunch this weekend to get an idea as to where things are headed, but I do not imagine any substantial changes will occur. Even with these Pokemon, it is probably more incremental shifts to begin with. Flygon was a big loss, but it is still just one Pokemon.
Here to cover some of the usage stats for NU, copied from Monky25's UU version. Essentially it's just a usage reflection post, talking about some of the meta changes and Pokemon that have gotten better/worse. A lot of changes has happened after the July shifts, most notably the loss of tier-staple Flygon. I'm going to leave a few questions at the end for whoever wants to answer them. Down below are the stats of the individual months in June and May.
(23.7% -->27.5%): Bronzong continues to increase in usage and viability despite it being one of the most used NU Pokemon the month prior. Its ability to check and a multitude of scary offensive threats such as Exploud, Sylveon, Exploud etc... are extremely valuable, oftentimes doing a better job than the other steels around. ID Body Press sets have also popped up a lot more recently, acting as a scary wincon and as a solid check vs things like Glastrier. It has incredible utility and a wide array of possibilities in regards to its ability and moves. I don't think its usage will decrease anytime soon.
(18.4% --> 23.6%): Mowtom has certainly gained a reputation for itself as an extremely annoying Pokemon to block/handle. It has a wide array of sets, with things like itemless becoming more common in recent times. It will always find an opportunity to try and gain momentum, with Flygon leaving making Volt Switching even easier. Will definitely continue to rise especially with the departure of Flygon. (16.6% --> 22.8%): People are starting to realize that wish sets are still effective and that Specs is really good. Or at least, that's how I interpreted it. With Specs, it's a super dangerous Pokemon that when predicted right, will always leaves holes in the opposing team. With standard wish being as good as ever.
(7.3% --> 9.1%): People have been catching on to the fact that Exploud is one of the most potent breakers in the tier. Not much to say other than that, and I expect its usage to increase as time continues.
(4.9% --> 6.1%): A Pokemon that has been on the rise recently, Goodra has been appreciating the standard bulky balance builds in NU that it loves to feast on. Capable of 2 shotting most common defensive cores with the right predictions. Its typing and speed are also decent, allowing it to outpace other wallbreakers and potentially even living hits from specially attacking sweepers. Overall an underrated mon and a Pokemon that should be used more. (3.3% --> 7.8%): One of the best fighting checks around and a good blanket check to numerous physical attackers. Garbodor has shown to have some great role compression, with the ability to set spikes along with endless possibilities of filler moves (corrosive gas, toxic, etc...) Some teams may even opt for specially defensive versions of Garbodor, allowing it to check things like Specs Sylveon and Salazzle. It will only get better with the departure of Flygon, meaning one less defogger and Pokemon that can threaten it out. Perhaps now that it's NU by usage more people will be inclined to use it.
Speaking of becoming NU by usage, all four of these have finally become NU by usage as well. They're all super effective in the roles that they are used for. With most of them becoming even better with the rise of Flygon. Heliolisk loses a volt immunity, making its Electric STAB that much more spammable. Meanwhile Toxicroak benifits from the removal of a defensive check and revenge killer. Guzzlord also no longer has to fear offensive Flygon or any of the bulky pivot shenanigans.
Notable Decreases in Usage
(26% --> 22.2%): Vaporeon has slowly been declining in usage recently, with many teams opting for Sylveon or just no wish-passer on their balance builds. The need to check offensive waters is done by many other current rising stars in the meta, such as Heliolisk and Toxicroak. Similarly, recent meta trends have not been very helpful for Vaporeon. With many people also adapting/realizing how to deal with Vaporeon. Still an amazing glue but will probably keep declining in usage, especially given how many electrics have gotten better. (16.4% --> 11.7%): Xatu is still an amazing Pokemon, able to wall and gain momentum on many of the tier's SR setters. However, in the recent month there has been a few things that Xatu doesn't appreciate. First let's talk about the obvious, screens were nerfed. Meaning screens HO is less widely used and thus Xatu's usage reflects (lol) that. A lot of people are also starting to abuse Xatu's slight passiveness by making more aggresive plays/using devastating special breakers such as Exploud/Sylveon. Still a fantastic Pokemon but has fallen off a bit from where it once peaked.
(10.5% -->7%): I'm honestly not too sure on why this dropped so hard. Perhaps it suffers from poison type competition in regards to its typing, or that other special wall breakers are generally more preferred. It could also be the fact that people aren't as worried about Vaporeon anymore, or even in regards to recent meta trends (eg. more steel and ground cores). I expect Dragalge usage to increase with the electrics being more prominent and Flygon's departure from the tier. (9% --> 6.9%): Honestly a bit surprised by how much Celebi has dropped off in usage, as I would've thought the complete opposite going into this month. Does kind of make sense though, especially considering the prominence of U-turners as well as the increased Steel/guzzlord usage. I expect this to increase in usage this month. As Flygon is no longer around, as well as being able to naturally check things like electrics and revenge the tier's numerous poisons/waters.
Tier Changes (some speculation)
While we didn't gain/lose much this shift, we did lose one of, if not the best Pokemon in the tier. Capable of supporting many teams through its natural capabilities as a glue mon. We lost one of the best scarfers, pivots, defoggers, Copper checks etc...
Others have already said, but electrics look really good right now. Without the presence of Flygon, many teams lack a volt immunity. With teams that do often fearing the coverage the electrics have. It's very early in the meta so far to draw any conclusions, but from what I observed after laddering for a bit is that electrics are amazing. The loss of Flygon opened quite a few new doors for them. To a lesser extent, Electric terrain looks super cool without Flygon in the tier. The real question is will it be good? As every large tier shift you have people hyping up eTerrain for it to just be bad again. Perhaps this time it will be different, but who really knows (someone reply to this in like 15 days thx!)
Similarly, I expect all of the poisons to get better. They all lost a huge offensive/defensive check. The bulky poisons benefit as well, fearing one less defogger and annoyance in their path. Overall very excited to see how things turn out for them.
We lost one of the best Headsmash resists in the tier. Will Tyrantrum be one of the top meta threats? Only time will tell. The prevalence of Bronzong and Mudsdale hurt it a lot though, with similar replacement grounds like Rhydon and Quagsire also giving it some troubles. Regardless, it loves the removal of Flygon in the tier and hopefully seesmore usage.
Pretty minor but thought it'd be worth a mention. The psychics love that there's one less U-turner that can revenge or threaten them out.
Quagsire is back which means stall has a chance in the metagame. Its typing and ability are huge, able to stop things like Blastoise, Tyrantrum and many other dangerous Pokemon for stall. It's too early to really tell if stall is good or not, but it at least provides some hope for those who love to stall ladder.
Potential Tier Shifts
Anyways, Zarude is gone in RU and we all know what's gonna happen next. Use Celebi while you can for the next three months because the probability of it staying are honestly really slim. If usage stats were representative of June only without the other two months, we would've had both of these drop. Don't take it as fact that they will drop in a few months, but consider it somewhat likely/ on your radar.
Doublade was also pretty close to dropping, but once again it's nothing confirmed/highly susceptible to certain meta changes. (just thought it was fun to write this section, maybe spark some potential hype)
Lastly, here are the usual questions for anyone to answer (stolen from the UU version)
1. What do you think of the tier changes? Thoughts on the rises or drops?
2. What Pokemon do you think will grow in viability from these shifts?
3. Conversely, what Pokemon you think will get worse from these changes?
4. What Pokemon will continue to get better and/or what Pokemon will continue to decline?
5. Any underrated Pokemon or sets that you are using that you want to share?
The Electric-type hype is a little overblown imo. Mowtom and Heliolisk were always good, and while trading Flygon for Quagsire is a plus for them, they still are going to be put in check by much of the same as before. Besides, the Flygon matchup for these two always felt like a crutch to me; both mons can 2HKO Flygon + outspeed depending on the sets, and all Flygon accomplished essentially is a guaranteed one-time switch-in while healthy. The problem here is that Flygon always did way more than just block Volt Switch, so it being weakened below half health from Leaf Storm / Hyper Voice was never a good thing + highly abusable by the Electric-type player. That is to say that Flygon stopping Volt Switch momentum once wasn’t ever that great in the first place if it ends up losing its bulk in the process.c
Given that Mowtom + Heliolisk are often Choice-locked, it’s still a necessity to have a Ground-type, but special walls + Grass- and Dragon-types are equally as valuable; I’m pretty much echoing / agreeing with @Corthius’s post for this part. Quagsire is the newest addition and looks like a great wall for the tier, especially thanks to Water Absorb. Toxic looks like a good fit on it, and Curse sets look dangerous in their own right. Golurk, Mudsdale, and Rhydon all have prestablished niches that will continue to work fine. Lastly, Palossand and—to a much lesser degree—Stunfisk both were used in tours to success. Grass- and Dragon-types like Vileplume, Dhelmise, Celebie, Dragalge, and Goodra also are great deterrents to Volt Switch while absorbing Leaf Storm too. Otherwise, just general special walls like Bronz, Escav, and Sylveon do fine too for the most part.
Of course nothing does all that Flygon was capable of, but that’s ok. More can take its places as cleaners, Defoggers, Choice Scarfers, ect. RP Golurk, Defog Mantine, and Scarf Virizion are some of the lesser-used sets that might start to pick up steam in Flygon’a absense.
If usage stats were representative of June only without the other two months, we would've had both of these drop. Don't take it as fact that they will drop in a few months, but consider it somewhat likely/ on your radar.
a lot of the posts on this thread are gonna be "hey this mon loses to Flygone so now it is good", so I want to go over a few of those mons and THEN go over new Flygon "replacements" instead. :)
Mowtom was able to nuke every Volt-immune Ground type with Leaf Storm, giving it effective free Volt Switches bar Flygon, who could usually take a Leaf Storm and heal up or U-Turn out for super-effective damage and momentum while also blocking Volt Switch.
Even Salazzle could end up blowing past Flygon with a Dragon Pulse set, although it would lose to Choice Scarf Flygon and running Dragon Pulse means it must drop a useful utility move in either Knock Off, Toxic, Encore, or Disable that could help it cripple other Defensive Salazzle checks. Salazzle now has the room to run one of these moves, only having to worry about Goodra and Dragalge, and also doesn't have to fear Choice Scarf Flygon anymore.
SD Croak arose swiftly when it was developed to beat Mudsdale using Low Kick. Defensive Flygon took the mantle from Mudsdale due to its lower weight and higher speed, becoming a near perfect check to Physical Toxicroak and doing solidly against Special Toxicroak too. Toxicroak could run Ice Punch to surprise attack Flygon upon switchin although that meant dropping much-needed coverage, relied purely on a read to work, and was completely useless in every non-Flygon matchup.
Similar to Toxicroak, Drapion could forgo otherwise better coverage for Ice Fang coverage specifically for Flygon, however Drapion had to run Shuca Berry to live an opposing Flygon and also drop Earthquake, which hits Diancie and other Poisons, both of which severely limit its balance-breaking potential. Flygon being gone allows Drapion to abuse its coverage as best as possible.
Although it could 2HKO Flygon with a Hyper Voice if it switched in hard, Heliolisk would obviously rather click Volt Switch on a switchin to gain momentum. now with Grass Knot and Focus Blast, or maybe Dark Pulse mixed in there somewhere, Lisk can hit Ground types like Golurk, Mudsdale, and Quagsire, Focus Blast 2HKO's Togedemaru, Copperajah, and Guzzlord, and Dark Pulse hits Dhelmise and Decidueye. Heliolisk's high speed tier and phenomenal coverage paired with its useful immunity to Ghost and Water to let it pivot in will make this thing very scary I think.
Poison-resist hazard remover that's immune to hazards and threatens to always 2HKO Garb leaving the tier will always be phenomenal for Garb; its already been on the rise due to its ability to check Copper and Fetch'd and such while setting up hazards, but now it will only get better. Spikes have always been difficult to fit on teams because the meta just wasn't welcoming to any of the setters, but Garbodor finds itself sitting comfortably in the meta right now and Spikes pair well with dangerous threats such as Tauros on Starmie, who otherwise would fail to get 2HKO's on Pokemon such as Vaporeon, Vileplume, etc.
Flygon was one of the best offensive mons against Electric Terrain, due to its immunity and solid natural bulk even uninvested, which allowed it to take Modest Life Orb Psychic, Grass Knot, or Focus Blast. Raichu can use that aformentioned coverage on most other Electric sponges such as Vileplume, Mudsdale, or Guzzlord respectively.
There's many other Pokémon who are beneficiaries of July's shifts, best summarized in the post made by Finchinator I just wanted to go over who I think would benefit the most so I could go over the counterplay to them.
So now let's move onto the scraps we have leftover to deal with these menaces now that Flygon has left us..
What used to be a meme for beating Rotom-Mow now is our reality. Lightning Rod means you technically block Volt Switch and your Steel typing and serviceable bulk and Recovery in Wish allow you to take Leaf Storms fairly well. Toge can also run a wide variety of sets due to its vast movepool of two solid STAB options, U-Turn, WishTect, double status in Nuzzle and Toxic, and other niche support moves in Gravity or Super Fang. Togedemaru also threatens both Sylveon, Ninjask, Vaporeon, Dragalge, and obviously other Pokémon scared of Electric or Steel moves.
I'm gonna say the same thing about literally all of these but obviously defensive Ground type can fill the defensive Ground type role on a team. Each of these Pokemon do different things but for the most part they will appreciate the rise in Steels, Electrics, and Poisons from Flygon leaving. They all pretty much check Copperajah Toxicroak, Garbodor, and Drapion due to their shared natural physical bulk. Palossand has reliable recovery in Shore Up and a strong special attack stat that the other Ground types lack. Sandslash has a solid speed tier for its archetype and offers both Stealth Rocks and Spikes, as well as its own Rapid Spin and Knock Off to remove Heavy-Duty Boots for its hazards and items in general (duh). Sandaconda is a very diverse Pokemon who hasn't seen the light of NU for a while, although I think it has mad potential; CoilRest sets have swept me more than I'd like to admit and Druddigon is a tried-and-true example of how potent Rocks + Glare can be with some offense packed behind it. Runerigus has the best physical bulk of the Ground types and a solid attacking stat with 2 of the best STABs in the game in EQ and Polter alongside Body Press, it also has the most potential in its ability, notably checking Mienshao in older meta's but now being able to check Tyrantrum and Tauros consistently. Stunfisk's bulk overall is insane and its Electric typing lets it check Pokemon like Braviary, Talonflame, and Ninjask better than most; Stunfisk also has Static to punish U-Turn from scarfers and utility in Rocks, Toxic, and Pain Split, with 2 very good STAB moves to use as well. Galar Stunfisk is also worth nothing due to its Steel typing and great bulk, doing pretty much the same thing as Alola Fisk but with different checks.
Altaria's ground-immunity, Defog, and Dragon-typing let it fulfill many niches in the builder that Flygon had, while also bringing some of its own things to the table in Heal Bell, PerishTrap, Natural Cure being a status absorber, and STAB Hurricane to threaten Grass types that Flygon could struggle with. Altaria is very underexplored right now and typically relegated to stall teams but I think there are some Flygon teams where Altaria could be a suitable substitute. Altaria is one of the best Salazzle checks in the game, being able to take a +2 Dragon Pulse and OHKO with uninvested Earthquake, as well as naturally healing off Toxic damage and having reliable recovery in Roost. Altaria has very well rounded stats, making it decently fast and very bulky, with useable offenses making it not entirely passive.
I will add to this list as I make new findings. Currently looking for anything that can block Volt Switch and also take on its coverage in Grass Knot and Focus Blast. that Pokemon looks very scary right now
why did rotom-mow drop on the vr? (vr is closed ok). (also expresses confusion to why vibrava is now S) but other than that what made it fall more than flygon rise could make it drop
why did rotom-mow drop on the vr? (vr is closed ok). (also expresses confusion to why vibrava is now S) but other than that what made it fall more than flygon rise could make it drop
S- -> A+: Rotom-Mow's tour win percentage has seen a large dip over the course of NUPL, and rise of checks such as Flygon, Vileplume, and Dragalge makes it much harder for it to fill its role.
'Sup, guys! I just wanted to go over a few little pokémon I've been really enjoying using these couple of post-metagame shifts days.
I'm extremely impressed by Uxie on the current metagame and definitely think you guys should give it a try. Its defensive capabilities are outstanding, being one of our best Fighting-type checks and possessing an extremely versatile support movepool with moves such as Yawn, U-Turn, Future Sight, Stealth Rock and Knock Off. It is also a particularly cheesy effective late-game sweeper with its Calm Mind sets, which range from Kee Berry to itemless and Grassy Seed variants.
Here are a few replays showcasing Uxie's potential:
This is another pokémon I've been loving after shifts. Without Flygon roaming around, this little critter can fulfill its niche as a defensive Steel-type spiker with much more ease. It is an outstanding check to the likes of Dragalge and Rotom-Mow, while being able to pivot in the face of more defensive pokémon such as Mantine, Xatu, Vaporeon and Sylveon and threaten them with moves such as Knock Off, Triple Axel and Iron Head - and maybe use the opportunity to setup Spikes. I've yet to gather some more replays, but as soon as I do expect a cool post post ;).
A pretty self-sufficient defensive core I've been enjoying a lot currently is QuagXatu. The both of them synergize beatifully and cover each other's weakness pretty well. Just beware of Rotom-Mow, offensive Copperajah and offensive Ghost-types.
Potential partners to compliment this core are: -Heatproof
'Sup, guys! I just wanted to go over a few little pokémon I've been really enjoying using these couple of post-metagame shifts days.
I'm extremely impressed by Uxie on the current metagame and definitely think you guys should give it a try. Its defensive capabilities are outstanding, being one of our best Fighting-type checks and possessing an extremely versatile support movepool with moves such as Yawn, U-Turn, Future Sight, Stealth Rock and Knock Off. It is also a particularly cheesy effective late-game sweeper with its Calm Mind sets, which range from Kee Berry to itemless and Grassy Seed variants.
Here are a few replays showcasing Uxie's potential:
This is another pokémon I've been loving after shifts. Without Flygon roaming around, this little critter can fulfill its niche as a defensive Steel-type spiker with much more ease. It is an outstanding check to the likes of Dragalge and Rotom-Mow, while being able to pivot in the face of more defensive pokémon such as Mantine, Xatu, Vaporeon and Sylveon and threaten them with moves such as Knock Off, Triple Axel and Iron Head - and maybe use the opportunity to setup Spikes. I've yet to gather some more replays, but as soon as I do expect a cool post post ;).
A pretty self-sufficient defensive core I've been enjoying a lot currently is QuagXatu. The both of them synergize beatifully and cover each other's weakness pretty well. Just beware of Rotom-Mow, offensive Copperajah and offensive Ghost-types.
Potential partners to compliment this core are: -Heatproof
def agree with uxie stuff. there are other sets uxie can run as well (like nasty plot for more offensive sets, suicide rocker, RestTalk , and while it prob is a bad idea power up punch physical attacker maybe works?)
When I heard that Quag dropped all my hate for laddering that I’ve had recently dissipated, and I had to try building some new stall teams. So I’m gonna preface this post with a few warnings.
1. A more in depth look at my favorite quag stall will be coming soon in an rmt near you.
2. This isn’t a vr nom or anything, just a call to people to regard stall now as a viable and potent force in SS NU that it wasn’t when we didn’t have access to the superior Unaware water type.
3. If you’re one of the people who despise stall I still ask that you read this post if anything as a way to prep better for stall builds in the future, since hopefully this and the coming posts I will make regarding the playstyle will lead to more stall usage.
So the dropping of Quagsire and leaving of Flygon has lead to some really interesting developments which are still undergoing in our meta. There are a few trends which I’ve noticed while on this ladder run. Managed to top ladder which is dope too so I swear I’m competent at the game(most times).
Many teams aren’t prepared for stall.
Here are a few replays of formerly and arguably still usable teams from the flygon era that are unable to stand up well against stall teams. These replays illustrate a lack of preparation for this play style, leading to the defeat of otherwise competent players.
As you can see these teams, one of which was used in NUPL, are beat by stall albeit not easily. Not going to go too in depth about the replays, as I will do those in future posts, but the teams that were formerly viable are worn down or just plain beaten by the walls on stall.
Players aren’t used to aggressively played stall. In many of the replays I showed, there were trades and predictions that turned otherwise neutral match ups into near impossible ones. I wish I saved it, but I remember a quote from a user named Uberfiend which kind of summarized a lot of the issue. It went along the lines of, stall players tend to want to 6-0 and preserve mons, making facing them really easy. This and the idea that stall players are only making safe plays leads to a lot of over predicting and doubling around against stall. For example in the game against coorsvirus, my friend expected me to make the double switch to scrafty on his xatu. I decided to just stay in and Heavy Slam, eliminating oneor the bigger threats. In another game,i had Garbodor vs the Bronzong, but recognizing that the switch to Xatu was extremely free there, I decided to Gunk Shot the Bronzong, nailing the Decidueye on the switch in. These might just seem like regular plays but when using stall, playing passively might seem really obvious, so aggressively played stall is rare.
there are still ways to beat stall. Although in this recent run, I tookvery few Ls, they were still there, and there are ways to beat it consistently. So in no way do I think that a drop of Quagsire made stall overwhelming or broken, it just made it a very effective play style that should be recognized more.
Going to dump one of my 3 stalls that I built here, and try to explain it a bit. It’s pretty linear, and actually is just a copy of an old stall I used back during the noivern meta. The other two have a bit more depth to them in regards to current NU(since I built them a few days ago), but this one is fs usable atm.
Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Scald/Protect
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Recover
So obviously this is the unaware wall, it’s niche is being a general annoyance to physical win conditions, and stopping Drapion and DD Tyrantrum in their tracks. It also gives me a volt immune, which although not the best at that role, it is still nice to have. Protect is rlly cool for choice locked Pokémon trying to garner momentum on you such as Rotom mow, Protox is al
Bronzong @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Heavy Slam
- Earthquake
Opted for this spread as it lives 4 Specs Boombursts from Exploud which is otherwise a pain to deal with. Also helps me deal with CM/Specs Sylveon, since my Unaware pokemon is unable to beat those sets. Move set is pretty standard.
Sylveon @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Hyper Voice
- Heal Bell
Added basic physically defensive Sylveon, but honestly, I might consider a mixed spread as I already have two decent fight resists on the team. Still nice as a cleric and overall fat mon.
Scrafty @ Leftovers
Ability: Shed Skin
EVs: 248 HP / 220 SpD / 20 Spe
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Rest
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
Added Scrafty as a win condition against opposing fat, it has the ability to 6-0 non Sirfetch’d or Sylveon teams, and with the support this team provides it can even win against those. Very cool mon that I have been loving on stall teams.
Vileplume
Ability: Effect Spore
EVs: 248 HP / 240 Def / 20 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Bomb
- Giga Drain
- Strength Sap
- Growth
Secondary wincon, primary fight resist, wanted a reliable answer to Rotom Mow+ the added benefit of beating many of the physical attackers in the tier. Growth is once again for the fat match up, as it can break down teams using steel type Copper or non Psychic Bronzong extremely easily.
Altaria @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 120 Def / 140 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Roost
- Toxic/Perish Song
- Hurricane/Earthquake/Fire Spin
So for context because this is a weird pick, I originally had noivern in this slot, but because it rose to RU with the shifts back when I built this team, I was lazy and just used the next best thing. Altaria gives me a decent secondary NP Salazzle check, and a good fight resist. It also compresses Defog really nicely in its set. Some options for its move set, could be EQ over Hurricane, or Fire Spin+Perish Song over Tox/Cane. Fire Spin makes sure you win most fat on fat match ups by trapping walls.
Fun team, and I had a lot of fun laddering these past few days. Managed to top ladder which was cool. More teams will be released soon but I hope this post helps show the viability of stall, and helps point out how many people are not prepared for this, and why they should be. Cya!
I was nosing around the teambuilder and found on the stats that can be used as a better replacment to for offense teams.
if we take (which is banned in NU), we see it has a 75/125/70/125/70/115. this spread clearly represents a glass cannon for HO teams. Secondly, 's statline is 75/75/130/75/130/95. While not unusable for bulky offense, its statline clearly ressembles a tank that fits on balance, semistall and bulky offense rather than Hyper Offense. lastly you have . its 80/105/105/105/105/80 ressembles a slower, somewhat more tanky than but less tanky than , and more power than but less power than . I could see fitting on Offense, Balance, and possibly bulky offense.
Very interested to see how Rhydon's viability is impacted by this tier shift. While opinions were quite varied on it before---you had people thinking it was anything from unviable to B+/A- territory---it really appreciates Flygon leaving. Ice Punch becomes significantly easier to drop in favor of other options like Swords Dance, and it naturally appreciates less competition for the Ground-type slot. Additionally, its niche is simply more pronounced now; before the shift, a lot of justifying Rhydon came down to wanting some sort of blend of what Diancie + Flygon could do but in one slot, and with the presumed rise of Salazzle and how well Rhydon handles it, I think it could rapidly soar up the ranks.
I was nosing around the teambuilder and found on the stats that can be used as a better replacment to for offense teams.
if we take (which is banned in NU), we see it has a 75/125/70/125/70/115. this spread clearly represents a glass cannon for HO teams. Secondly, 's statline is 75/75/130/75/130/95. While not unusable for bulky offense, its statline clearly ressembles a tank that fits on balance, semistall and bulky offense rather than Hyper Offense. lastly you have . its 80/105/105/105/105/80 ressembles a slower, somewhat more tanky than but less tanky than , and more power than but less power than . I could see fitting on Offense, Balance, and possibly bulky offense.
Going off of base stats rather than experience, movepool, and practical application is quite misleading.
Uxie fits onto offense as an option of a hazard and screen setter more than anything else, for example. It is not even a premier option in this regard, but if it had to be used, it would actually be best on offensive teams.
Just because a Pokemon has higher defenses than attacking stats does not mean you can group it strictly with a specific bulkier archetype. In the same vein, pokemon with offensive outlooks can work on balance teams, too.
Unfortunately, with Azelf in a higher tier and the other two not being ranked currently, we probably should be focusing on other, more viable options anyway.
I think the two most troublesome Pokemon in the metagame for me right now are Rotom-C and Sirfetch'd (in that order). Blastoise, Salazzle, and even Drapion have been brought up to me, but I cannot see any immediate action being taken on the latter two and I have already shared my (unchanged) thoughts on Blastoise -- if there is enough support on it, I will gladly give in though.
Rotom-C's combination of Leaf Storm and Volt Switch as STABs alone is the root of some issues I feel. It is already a strong offensive presence, capable of forcing progress, like Celebi for instance, but it can cripple would-be checks with Will-o-Wisp or the increasingly common Nasty Plot. Being a hit-and-run option, a lot of counterplay is at the mercy of momentum, oftentimes only doing the trick 1 or 2 or 3 times when Rotom-C gets in repeatedly and this is not enough. I think some of the things balancing Rotom-C are reasonable damage output, Dragalge being as common as ever, and opposing Rotom-C soft checking it ironically enough. Obviously Rotom-C does not make the tier unplayable and I am very hesitant to even say it is ban or suspect worthy, but I think we are at the point where this discussion is worth having given how superb Rotom-C is at forcing incrimental progress and entering the battle safely as an offensive option.
Sirfetch'd is more of the same: it is a very strong offensive option with one set that is pretty volatile and another that is pretty consistently strong. I am on the fence about this as I feel I am able to contain it well with bulky-offense, but balance archetypes are limited a little bit in terms of counterplay. I do not think that the metagame has changed much on this front, but it has also only been 5 days, so we will keep an eye on this.
With the "new" (post-Flygon) metagame starting to settle, look for more communication from the council -- be it in the form of posts or a survey, we will be in touch and we want to hear what everyone has to say, so do not hesitate to share your thoughts here anytime either!
I've been toying around with Grassy Terrain recently and have had some great success. The departure of Flygon has benefited all types of terrain teams, with Grassy Terrain in particular peaking my interest. I'll go over some of the Pokemon used and also why Grassy Terrain offense has a niche in this metagame as a viable HO option.
Why use Grassy Terrain offense?
There's not really any particular reason (besides the mini surprise factor). Like other HO and offense style teams, it's fun, fast and and effective, especially on ladder. Like all HO and offensive teams, it still has big flaws and consistent counterplay. However, for the most part it's been working well for me, and I highly encourage others to try it out.
Potential Abusers
There are many Pokemon capable of abusing the effects of Grassy Terrain. I'll outline a few in this post, though there's probably a plethora of options beyond what is written here.
Catalisador explained it already but essentially, Uxie is excellent at cheesing out wins and what would be checks. Its excellent bulk and great setup opportunities really defines it imo. Super good mon
Probably the most obvious abusers. They both abuse the unburden effects after consuming Grassy Seed, and are sometimes able to dent holes into the opposing team. Both still have many, many flaws though. Such as being checked easily by a large portion of the tier (plume, tflame, garb, etc...). Still, they can be quite potent in the right scenarios
One of the most common abusers of Terrain teams, Blastoise serves as a reliable wallbreaker on these kinds of teams. Imo it's even better on Grassy Terrain compared to other terrain teams due to its ability to easily bypass Quagsire, who would otherwise be an issue (utilizing terrain pulse). It also takes advantage of the things that would beat other Grassy Terrain elements, such as fire types and certain grounds.
Lumping these two together, but I've found that they're actually good on Grassy Terrain teams. Rhydon is a nice fire/poison check and is able to be an offensive SR setter, capable of pressure Xatu. Diancie is also very similar, and is also able to benefit from terrain in the form of Terrain Pulse and reduced EQ damage. They also capitalize off of the poisons and fires that might otherwise be problematic for terrain teams.
Problematic Issues
There are many issues for Grassy Terrain teams, though it somewhat varies depending on the Pokemon used. I'll list a few issues for this archetype, though there's definitely way more.
Hazards are issues for these kind of teams, which is only worsened by how well Garbador's defensive typing is when dealing with these kind of teams. It is annoying for most of the abusers and will always force progress
Similarly, super annoying for Grassy Terrain teams. Typing matches up super well vs the whole archetype and in general can be a pain sometimes
Hasn't been problematic in my testing but that's also partially attributed to the sweepers I used. First Impression can be an issue sometimes
Essentially invalidates certain sweepers of a team and can be pretty annoying with status to cripple the other sweepers such as Blastoise.
Can taunt, threaten big damage on all of the sweepers, and is all around a really annoying presence for these kind of teams
I was able to reach 1600+ ELO with Grassy Terrain offense, which doesn't prove too much but shows how it can be effective even vs high ladder players. Below are replays to showcase my point further:
Grassy Terrain teams, and terrain in general is super unexplored. There's room for a lot of innovation and exploration in this meta which is pretty neat. This post isn't to say that Grassy Terrain or Terrain teams are top tier, or something super reliable. Just wanted to share a fun archetype that I believe should see more usage. Overall I really enjoy this meta, fun and less stale than when we had Flygon around.
Hyper Offense kinda fell off a little with the dual screens ban and I feel like the previous version is a little outdated. We can look back at where the community used something weird like Roar Vaporeon to phaze Substitute Blastoise+Glastrier and I honestly feel like 4/6 of the Pokemon pretty much loses to Vaporeon, that being Blastoise, Glastrier, Aerodactyl, and Salazzle. There are many things that the current version has a hard time breaking, for example, Decidueye is just straight-up walled by Braviary and Guzzlord and I feel like Glastrier was just added because "this Pokemon is new, let's try it out on HO first" but in reality, Bronzong is just way too common for me to find it that good. The metagame has adjusted to Glastrier and checking Ghost-types with itemless users, Normal-types like Braviary, and Dark-types, often leading to Decidueye using weakened attacks like Spirit Shackle and Low Sweep. I feel like Aerodactyl has some issues as well. It struggles to get past defensive Pokemon like Mudsdale and Rhydon, it faces weird 50/50s with Scarf Rotom-C and Heliolisk, and Magic Bounce can be counterproductive but I guess that is like any other Stealth Rocker. Glastrier+Decidueye is a tad bit slow and we can also look at NUPL and see that some players like Sabella have started using faster options like Virizion as a result.
Aggron @ Custap Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Def / 0 SpD / 0 Spe
- Head Smash
- Metal Burst
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
Kudos to Machineae for bringing the set up in the Creative Sets thread and after trying this, I'd consider DD + Crunch Aerodactyl a better set than the "Lead Aerodactyl" set. Custap Berry is a really nice surprise do get the rocks up or bop a fast Pokemon that would most likely try revenge killing you like Ninjask and Rotom-C or simply setting Stealth Rock. Metal Burst is really good for pressuring or KOing Ground-types that Aerodactyl fails to beat or bopping the switching Rotom-C goes to after it uses Volt Switch. The EVs underspeeds Bronzong iirc? (Set by Machineae)
Something a little unexplored but I feel like this synegizes well with the team actually. Dry Skin offers an actual Scald switching unlike EV'd Glastrier and Swords Dance Decidueye and it supports Salazzle in beating Water-types for Blastoise. Glastrier is just too slow for my likings and I think a lot of things force it out and there are many counters to it like ID Bronzong, 36 Speed Vaporeon or just Roar, and Arcanine. Jynx's speed tier outspeeds a lot and yes Focus Blast and Lovely Kiss is inconsistent, but I think Blunder Policy or something like Substitute + Salac (worse set) can actually utilize these moves to outspeed even more things like Talonflame and Choice Scarf Rotom-C. Lovely Kiss puts a lot of stuff asleep like Vaporeon (can be really good longterm with helping Blastoise setup more freely) and general Steel-types like Copperajah and Bronzong. Heck, I have even seen some teams go without a Steel-type and opt for like Dragalge but its not a common thing, try it before you slander it.
Virizion @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Leaf Blade
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
Virizion came to mind over Decidueye since it pretty much can hit everything for neutral or supereffective damage. Stone Edge is a really nice lure for like Talonflame and the Arcanine switchin and I think its speed tier is amazing. After using hyper offense a few months ago, I noticed that the Blastoise HO vs Blastoise HO matchup was a little weird and the main counter was using Sash Lazzle + Sneak Decid to revenge kill but honestly it was just a bit annoying facing the same HO and seeing the same result over and over. Virizion has the bulk to live a +2 Ice Beam while also acting as a Electric resistance for the team.
Salazzle and Blastoise are pretty much star abusers on Hyper Offense and Xatu is the screen + teleporter. Do not drop these or you are terribad.
Here are some replays showcasing the team I put together:
Replays: 1 | 2 | 3
Be sure to fill out the NU Community Tiering Survey whenever you get the opportunity. Your input matters a lot to us and we are excited to proceed with our process!
Be sure to fill out the NU Community Tiering Survey whenever you get the opportunity. Your input matters a lot to us and we are excited to proceed with our process!
The results of the NU Community Tiering Survey can be found here. Thank you to everyone who participated and we hope that your feedback can lead to us all creating the best metagame possible moving forward!
NU feels like its in a decent place right now, with a decent mix of both offensive and defensive archetypes. its been nearly a month since flygon left the tier and I feel like metagame has settled down quite a bit. (idk what to say im trying to sound smart)
HAZARD REMOVAL IN NU
After Flygon's departure, SS NU's hazard removal has developed in interesting ways.
Aztec Bird
Xatu has proven to be a major thorn in many a hazard-setter's side, walling mudsdale, stalling out copperajah with rocky helmet and all around just keeping hazards off its side of the field. It also has access to teleport which means that its not a sitting duck for pokemon like guzzlord and drapion, instead switching out to pokemon that can appropriately pressure said pokemon. however, all is not roses for our favorite South American bird because its bulk, even when invested is still comparatively lackluster and it can be overwhelmed with enough offensive pressure. Xatu also doesn't usually fit defog on its moveset, meaning that if hazards do manage to get up it may be in trouble. Lastly, the recent rise of Rhydon as a rocker doesn't bode well for xatu for Rock blast and Stone edge reasons. Despite all these problems, Xatu continues to be a major facet of NU's hazard removal, sometimes paired with additional defoggers forming a very strong hazard removal core and enabling pokemon such as sirfetch'd and Sub Bulk Up Braviary.
Lawnmower
Everyone's favorite progress machine continues to do its thing, kicking ass and taking names. Rotom-C has the unique feature of annihilating most ground-type stealth rock setters with its powerful leaf storms and can debilitate pokemon like Copperajah and Bronzong with will-o-wisp or just Volt Switch on them. in recent times, though, the nasty plot mowtom set has begun to gain traction, proving to be a powerful wallbreaker which may affect the usage of defog mowtom. nevertheless though, Rotom-C is a great form of hazard removal.
Dumb Ray
Mantine is a sleeper pick as a defogger, but a good one at that. with decent typing and good special defense, mantine can come in on most rocks setters and fish(geddit) for burns with scald. it also has the option to haze to prevent opposing setup and can run toxic to cripple stuff like vaporeon. it isnt bothered by rhydon's rise as much as xatu since scald is a clean 2hko. however, mantine's spot as a bulky water is usually taken up by vaporeon who's gargantuan wishes and heal bell support are usually more valuable for teams. Nevertheless, on the right teams Mantine can definitely pull its weight.
F-22 Raptor
Talonflame also functions as a decent defogger in the current NU metagame if one needs it to. apart from doing its usual jobs of spreading burns everywhere and being a fast revengekiller, defog talonflame can be used to clear hazards off the field if the team needs it to do so. Running Talonflame as your defogger does have its downsides however, as substituting u-turn for defog means that you lose out on the pivoting capabilities that make talonflame as good as it is right now and getting rid of will-o-wisp may undermine its good matchup versus steel-types. talonflame is also in the unfortunate position of losing to most non-steel type rockers. Rhydon and Diancie eat it alive and mudsdale can run smack down to severely damage it.
Finchinator
Braviary is a decent offensive defogger right now, with a strong offensive presence, defiant and serviceable defensive utility. it received close combat this generation which now allows it to severely damage pokemon like copperajah, OHKOing it after stealth rocks. coupled with a strong brave bird, its strength as a defogger is second to none. its middling speed of 80 does hold it back a bit in terms of offensive potential but still a great pick as a defogger.
Walking Rust Bucket
we have the first spinner of the tier and dhelmise is a very cool option for hazard removal. boasting more attack than garchomp and 2 extremely powerful stab moves in power whip and poltergeist, dhelmise hits like a train 2HKOing almost every viable rocks setter in the tier with minimal investment. its grass typing also notably gives it a resistance to the ever present volt switch and with decent defenses to back it up, the anchor functions well as a rapid spinner. pokemon such as braviary and guzzlord do take advantage of dhelmise due to its low speed and lack of pivoting ability but dhelmise remains a good form of hazard removal.
Patrick Star (daniYSB is a living legend)
Starmie functions decently as a spinner with flip turn and natural cure supplemented by its high speed. however, this set suffers from the fact that it still needs to invest heavily in speed to outspeed pokemon like salazzle in order to beat them, which leaves its defensive presence meagre. however, it can still find a place on a few teams which need that specific niche.
(IM KIDDING IM KIDDING IM KIDDING DONT CLICK OFF)
OVERALL OPINIONS ON HAZARD REMOVAL
while at first glance, it seems that NU's options for hazard removal are quite diverse, most forms of hazard removal in this tier suffer from one problem.
defog's/rapid spin's place on their moveset can be taken up by something better.
there are quite a few examples of this.
rotom-mow enjoys using Nasty Plot sets in this metagame to function as a powerful breaker.
Talonflame loses out on major parts of its niche by opting for defog over something else
Braviary usually prefers bulk up in order to be able to augment its offensive presence further.
Starmie's best set is an LO breaker set which contrasts heavily with its rapid spinner set.
Dhelmise can use sets like Iron Defense-Body Press to turn into a deadly offensive and defensive behemoth.
hence, NU hazard removal is often about making compromises in order to keep hazards off the field while supporting those compromises with suitable teammates.
Thank you if you read my 1000 words about hazard removal and please feel free to correct me if you feel like anything was off (im still kinda new to NU idk)
Hyper Voice, especially with something like Silk Scarf, is a nice tool to threaten stuff with, especially if you can get it in on a Water-type. Even if something like Bronzong or Diancie comes in to sponge it, it can just Volt Switch right out afterwards. Even if Quagsire opted to go SpD to avoid a 2HKO from Hyper Voice, it would still risk Grass Knot, which remains a decent move for the likes of Golurk and Mudsdale as well.
The Volt Switch factory itself suddenly fears little, as the vast majority of Electric-immune Pokemon will fall to Leaf Storm. Every Rotom-Mow set seems scary to face at the moment. Pretty self-explanatory.
Does have to worry about Quagsire (your best move there is probably Specs Analytic Tri Attack), but otherwise another pick that greatly benefits from the fast Ground pivot with recovery being (fly)gone. Magnet Pull remains a great way to force damage onto Steels (for the likes of CM Comfey, Ninjask, and the like) while having a solid matchup against our Wish users.
Also worth trying, imo
Actually manages to wall the above with Wish/Spiky Shield and Lightningrod, and also has access to cool stuff like U-turn.
Walls them, but might struggle to actually beat Rotom-Mow without Toxic access. 
idk man just throwing stuff out there. Rindo with Sludge Bomb?
is a natural fit for "top thread" in a post-Flygon metagame in my eyes. It was already a potent offensive threat with the ability to force incremental progress better than just about everything, but now it feels like a top tier breaker, too. Obviously it is fragile and support reliant, so I would not imagine it gets too crazy, but I think Salazzle is now a very reliable and fierce offensive threat.
likes one less Ground type around and also abuses the presence of Rotom-Mow and Salazzle, which is a pretty big plus. Another thing is that Bronzong did well against Flygon and it does well against Dragalge, so perhaps one being gone opens the door up for a bit more varied usage and less preparedness for Dragalge.
this feels like the perfect NU Pokemon honestly. I think it gets slightly better here for a few reasons -- more Poisons, more reasons to use the tank set, less RH Flygon, perhaps less Bronzong, etc.
etc. perhaps Quagsire will open the door for stall teams to be consistent again? Too early to have any indication though
and 
find themselves a bit more open offensively and happy with their speed tiers now, which could give us a lot of different structures featuring them as offensive centerpieces
They will surely appreciate the prevalence of more poison types and the lack of Ground type competition.
(9% --> 6.9%): Honestly a bit surprised by how much Celebi has dropped off in usage, as I would've thought the complete opposite going into this month. Does kind of make sense though, especially considering the prominence of U-turners as well as the increased Steel/guzzlord usage. I expect this to increase in usage this month. As Flygon is no longer around, as well as being able to naturally check things like electrics and revenge the tier's numerous poisons/waters.
If usage stats were representative of June only without the other two months, we would've had both of these drop. Don't take it as fact that they will drop in a few months, but consider it somewhat likely/ on your radar.
I just wanted to go over who I think would benefit the most so I could go over the counterplay to them.
Altaria's ground-immunity, Defog, and Dragon-typing let it fulfill many niches in the builder that Flygon had, while also bringing some of its own things to the table in Heal Bell, PerishTrap, Natural Cure being a status absorber, and STAB Hurricane to threaten Grass types that Flygon could struggle with. Altaria is very underexplored right now and typically relegated to stall teams but I think there are some Flygon teams where Altaria could be a suitable substitute. Altaria is one of the best Salazzle checks in the game, being able to take a +2 Dragon Pulse and OHKO with uninvested Earthquake, as well as naturally healing off Toxic damage and having reliable recovery in Roost. Altaria has very well rounded stats, making it decently fast and very bulky, with useable offenses making it not entirely passive.
-Heatproof
there are still ways to beat stall. Although in this recent run, I tookvery few Ls, they were still there, and there are ways to beat it consistently. So in no way do I think that a drop of Quagsire made stall overwhelming or broken, it just made it a very effective play style that should be recognized more.
can be used as a better replacment to 
for offense teams.
(which is banned in NU), we see it has a 75/125/70/125/70/115. this spread clearly represents a glass cannon for HO teams. Secondly, 
Probably the most obvious abusers. They both abuse the unburden effects after consuming Grassy Seed, and are sometimes able to dent holes into the opposing team. Both still have many, many flaws though. Such as being checked easily by a large portion of the tier (plume, tflame, garb, etc...). Still, they can be quite potent in the right scenarios
One of the most common abusers of Terrain teams, Blastoise serves as a reliable wallbreaker on these kinds of teams. Imo it's even better on Grassy Terrain compared to other terrain teams due to its ability to easily bypass Quagsire, who would otherwise be an issue (utilizing terrain pulse). It also takes advantage of the things that would beat other Grassy Terrain elements, such as fire types and certain grounds.
Lumping these two together, but I've found that they're actually good on Grassy Terrain teams. Rhydon is a nice fire/poison check and is able to be an offensive SR setter, capable of pressure Xatu. Diancie is also very similar, and is also able to benefit from terrain in the form of Terrain Pulse and reduced EQ damage. They also capitalize off of the poisons and fires that might otherwise be problematic for terrain teams.
Hasn't been problematic in my testing but that's also partially attributed to the sweepers I used. First Impression can be an issue sometimes
Essentially invalidates certain sweepers of a team and can be pretty annoying with status to cripple the other sweepers such as Blastoise.
