np: ORAS OU Suspect Process, Round 3 - Ghosts [Giratina-O remains in Ubers - check the OP]

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haunter

Banned deucer.




Hi guys, the tiering OU Council, in order to achieve a balanced and diverse metagame has decided to suspect test Giratina-Origin this round.

After removing from the metagame numerous offensive powerhouses, we realized that the time had come to invert the course.
Presently, the OU metagame is stale and the abundance of defensively oriented teams led us to believe that a mixed attacker with great defensive and offensive typing will probably give back some vivacity to the tier.
Right at the beginning of the X/Y era, many people suggested that Giratina-Origin shouldn't have been included in the initial banlist.
Its base statistics are on par with those of several other Pokémon who characterize the current OU metagame and the fact that it's forced to run Griseous Orb makes Giratina-O a relatively predictable threat.
Likewise, according to top players of the caliber of gr8astard and McMeghan, Giratina-O's 150/100/100 defenses will help balanced teams deal with threats such as Charizard-Y, Landorus-I and Serperior.

For voting, you'll need to achieve a COIL rating of 2750 or more on the OU Suspect Test ladder (in which the Giratina-O will be unbanned)) that will be implemented very soon.
Obviously, you should note that this rating may not be the final rating required.
Of course, we reserve the right to increase or decrease the requirements based upon the first week of laddering.
Lengthwise, the suspect test will last for approximately 2 weeks and will end on Sunday April 12.
So, the vote will take place in roughly one week after that.

Use this thread to discuss the suspects and your thoughts on the suspect metagame. If you have any questions, then feel free to contact McMeghan, Bloo, gr8astard, Haunter, or M Dragon through a PM. These threads tend to get derailed so please make extra effort to stay on topic. Future suspects need not be discussed in this thread.

Keep in mind that, as usual, it's going to be the playerbase to decide the outcome of this test.

Good luck and have fun laddering!

Rules for posting in this thread:
1) no one liners nor uninformed posts;
2) no discussion on other potential suspects;
3) no discussion on the Suspect process;
4) you're required to make respectful posts;
5) you're required to read this thread before posting.

Failing to follow these simple guidelines will result into your post being deleted and infracted without any prior warning.

Antar's edit: as with the previous OU tests, the B value for this test is 17.0. To figure out how many battles you'll need to have in order to achieve reqs, first determine your GXE (shown on the ladder and when you type /rating) and plug that into the following formula:

N=17.0/log2(40*GXE/2750)

(Google calculator is awesome for this kind of thing).

Here are some sample values:
Code:
GXE N
100 30
90 41
85 52
80 70
75 112
70 324
Credit for the illustration goes to anundeadboy.
 
Well...
... okay then
I would like to question exactly how this came about; ie why it's being suspected now and not before -- like how is it not broken now but it was broken before. I'd also like to know what things counter or check this without being steamrolled.
Sorry if this counts as a one-liner; just this is the first time in forever there's been a suspect for something to drop from Ubers and naturally as it's something like Giratina-Origin I'm rather perplexed.
 

Jukain

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I for one look forward to this Pokemon's introduction the metagame. Considering just how broken Landorus-I is, this might prevent us from having to ban it, which would truly be a travesty as Landorus-I is a positive balance-breaking presence to have in the metagame.

Hopefully the significant increase in COIL will prevent the uninformed populace from keeping this Pokemon in Ubers.
 
A suspect test for Giratina-O is highly welcome in OU. For a metagame so crowded with physical attackers, a good defensive mon with a decent typing is needed. Giratina-O is that
physical wall. It's typing is amazing with loads of useful resistances to Water (Azu), Grass (serperior), Fire (idk, I don't play much OU, writing from Ubers perspective) and useful immunities.
Resistances of this variety help it become a good defensive pokemon on either the physical or special side, though it is mostly run as a physical tank in Ubers.
It is also very useful as an offensive threat. While holding a griseous orb, it's base 120 offenses are magnificent from OU standards. It can employ a variety of sets ranging from things
like fast sub set, a shuffler, offensive CM, physical attacker and what not.

Furthermore, Giratina-O is also blessed with priority in form of Shadow sneak, with which it can easily pick of weakened faster mons like latias or latios. This helps slower teams from getting
overwhelmed by strong, fast attackers like CM latios as Giratina-O can help you revenge kill them.
On the other hand, it also has its share of drawbacks. It is weak to commonly used dark, fairy and dragon type attacks. By being forced to hold the Griseous-Orb, it has to forgo recovery from
Leftovers, or the usage of items like choice scarf or band which could significantly enhance its power.

All in all, I think this is a good decision taken by the OU council as the metagame needs to keep evolving to remain interesting. I wonder what kind of changes bringing a decent physical wall and a strong wall into a metagame full of fast attackers will bring. Let's hope for a nice suspect test.
Happy laddering!

[EDIT: To gain more insight, read the first letter of every line]
 
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Mr. Hothead

formerly Salt2DaFeds
This is a great april fools joke Haunter

I'm really trying to get my finger on this. 150/100/100 bulk and even with a weakness to knock off its probably too much for OU. If this thing is unbanned it will probably do work to Stall and the likes. also 120/120 attack with 90 speed is a lot.

Little too strong for ou.
 

Holiday

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As it stands, Giratina-O would be a blessing for OU. Due to the amazing defenses gifted upon it, it can become one of the tier's top mixed walls, being able to stop top tier Megas like MCX and Y, Manectric, and Gallade. With powerful 120/120 mixed attacking stats, we will finally have a real wall that can hit back. With bolstered offenses due to the Greisous Orb, and the ability to absorb Knock Off when holding this Orb, it also functions flawlessly as an absorber for one of the most potent moves in the tier. Also, it can help mitigate all the hazard stall going around with access to Defog and the ability to hit most Defog deterrents hard.

I will be voting to drop Giratina-O from Ubers to give OU a more defensive nature.

Good luck to those laddering! :-)
 
Looks like a cool phazer and spin blocker for stall, it's also pretty fast for something with those defenses... Oh and it can friggin defog as well...

Still I find something fishy about this...
 
I don't think Giratina-O should be unbanned because its combination of stats + typing + levitate will make it a really dynamic mon for several playstyles. Its priority will also make it an answer for several offensive threats, dtail + bulkyness + defog will make it a solid stuff for balanced and stalls, it can also run several god moves like wisp restalk meteor outrage shadowforce etc its just too much

the metagame atm is a sort of rock-paper-scissor and the fault is basically of overpowered megas. I don't think the right solution is putting in "overpowered answers" for overpowered mons, but we should get rid of both.

(thought this was a joke but seriously we should ban and not unban... or at least there would be more "sane" mons to think about unban like ehm aegislash even tho.. no.)

Also I don't get the logic "unban a mon for balancing the tier" while you banned a mon that did the same thing in a better way (im referring to Aegi)
 
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Is it just me, or would Aegislash be a more suitable Pokemon to re-introduce into the metagame? Considering it was such a close vote when it was banned, it would make sense that we would re-try it before suspecting something that was on the original ban list.
 
Don't really see how Gira-O can be balanced for the tier; it singlehandedly checks Lando-I, Mega Charizard Y, Serperior, Keldeo, Landorus-T, Mega Manectric, Manaphy, Mega Gallade and the list goes on. It has crazy power with Griseous Orb-boosted Draco Meteor and Shadow Sneak for priority, as well as fillers like Will-O-Wisp to cripple potential switch-ins such as Azumarill maybe. It also provides utility with spinblocking as well as Defogging. Its STAB combo hits the entire tier aside from like Bisharp (which is crippled by WoW) neutrally and its 150/100/100 bulk is just way too ridiculous to break. I have a hard time imagining how Gira-O can be balanced and introducing a broken mon to check another (potentially broken) mon is fallacious (for those supporting the cause for said reason).
 
My comment wasn't a one liner... It had semi comedic pictures in it....

Ok onto serious stuff. I can see the reasoning behind all this, with Giratina-O being rather underwhelming in the Ubers environment with it's offensive role generally given to something else and it's more defensive role/ supportive role given to either it's altered form or one of the eon duo. If Giratina-O does in fact land in ubers it would be sure to bring about many changes
 
Woah this is cool! I probably won't be able to get reqs but I'm excited to see how this pans out. Ghost is such a good offensive typing now, too. STAB and Griseous Orb boosted, to boot :P
 

Lemonade

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A key point about Giratina-O is that it is not weak to Stealth Rock and immune to Spikes. An effective way to check behemoths such as Ho-Oh and Lugia is with said Stealth Rock--they take 50% and 25% upon switching in and therefore would be balanced. However, Giratina-O is almost impossible to take down because it isn't weak to Stealth Rock. It can switch in and out fairly freely and even has Defog to get rid of Stealth Rock itself. Also, it's huge stats prove a problem for the OU metagame, especially since Pokemon like Togekiss have to rely on the weak Dazzling Gleam instead of Moonblast. One of Giratina-O's big checks in Ubers is Xerneas, which has Moonblast.
 
k so for serious, it has wisp, knock off hits it for base 65, has levitate, wide movepool, stats make it a wall that hits VERY hard, or a hard hitting mon that can take hits without much trouble, and all that hurts it is lack of recovery, which is easy to pass by wishes. it's such an amazing mixed attacker or support mon with defog that doesnt care about bisharp, except for lum variants.
 
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I know I haven't posted much in suspect threads since I usually leave this up to people who are significantly better than I am at the game, but I believe this is a good time to break that streak.

This would be a welcome change, I feel. Ever since the removal of Aegislash it's clear that the tier has been lacking in good Ghosts to use, and I feel Gira-O would be the perfect replacement, possibly even slightly weaker to make it not overcentralizing. Unlike Aegislash it doesn't have a Steel typing, meaning you can still whittle it down with Toxic Spikes so it's not as much of a nightmare to deal with.
 
I'm interested to see how this turns out.

It's got base 120 in both attack stats, but it has no way of boosting aside from Calm Mind, and it's effectively itemless. Base 100 defenses as well, but no reliable recovery.

I think it'll make a good offensive Defogger for bulky offense.
 

Punchshroom

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Wait, so Giratina-O exclusively is being tested and not Giratina? Does this mean OU Giratina must run Griseous Orb?

If so, that's a new kind of new 'item restriction' clause if I've ever seen one (the exact opposite case between Lati@s and Soul Dew). As for the testing of Giratina-O itself, I'm honestly not too surprised considering the 'precedent' set by Kyurem-B's stay in OU.
 
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