np: ORAS OU Suspect Process, Round 3 - Wandering Ghosts [Aegislash remains in Ubers]

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McMeghan

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Hi guys, the tiering OU Council has decided to test Aegislash this round.

After testing numerous threats for Ubers, we are inverting the course this round. Aegislash has been the uncontested ruler of the early stages of Gen 6. With its outstanding 150/150 offensive statistics, coupled with equally incredible 150/150 defenses when in Shield form, excellent defensive and offensive typing and access to King's shield, Aegislash has been the most controversial Pokémon in the X/Y era. Its ban happened because a handful of voters decided to change their vote right before the end of the voting phase and the community at large has never been entirely convinced that the Royal Sword Pokémon was overpowered in the OU tier.
The current OU metagame is characterized by the presence of incredibly powerful attackers, such as Mega-Metagross, Mega-Diancie, Mega-Gardevoir and so on. We believe that a Pokémon like Aegislash, while being potentially overcentralizing, could provide a reliable and all-round check to many of the aforementioned threats, thus giving some stability to a tier that's currently heavily influenced by the match up component of the game.

For this round we're gonna have two alternative ways to qualify for voting:
1) Laddering: you'll need to achieve a COIL rating of 2700 or more on the OU Suspect Test ladder (in which Aegislash will be unbanned), that will be implemented very soon. This round you will also be required to keep a minimum win/loss ratio of 2:1. Please note that this rating may not be the final required rating, and we reserve the right to increase or decrease the requirements based upon the first week of laddering;
2) Suspect Tours: check McMeghan's thread.

The suspect test will last for approximately 2 weeks and will end on Sunday May 3. The vote will take place in roughly one week after that.

Use this thread to discuss the suspect and your thoughts on the suspect metagame. If you have any questions, then feel free to contact McMeghan, aim, Tesung, Haunter, or M Dragon through a PM. These threads tend to get derailed so please make extra effort to stay on topic. Future suspects need not be discussed in this thread.

Keep in mind that, as usual, it's going to be the playerbase to decide the outcome of this test.

Good luck and have fun laddering!

Rules for posting in this thread:
1) no one liners nor uninformed posts;
2) no discussion on other potential suspects;
3) no discussion on the Suspect process;
4) you're required to make respectful posts;
5) you're required to read this thread before posting.

Failing to follow these simple guidelines will result into your post being deleted and infracted without any prior warning.

Antar's edit: as with the previous OU tests, the B value for this test is 17.0. To figure out how many battles you'll need to have in order to achieve reqs, first determine your GXE (shown on the ladder and when you type /rating) and plug that into the following formula:

N=17.0/log2(40*GXE/2700)

(Google calculator is awesome for this kind of thing).

Here are some sample values:
Code:
GXE N
100 30
90 41
85 52
80 70
75 112
70 324
Credit for the illustration goes to anundeadboy.
 
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ORAS is definitely a different meta than XY was, and considering how contentious the Aegislash ban was in the first place, I'm not surprised to see this test take place. Bust out your EQ's, everyone. Seriously though, I'm interested to see how this plays out. No initial opinion from me, though. I will, however, post my thoughts if/when I get to suspect laddering.
 

DennisEG

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tbh aegi/ is a hard mon to play around but maybe in this meta full of threats fit gud, although that make Lando-I more of a threat, the only way to find out if aegi needs to back in the ou tier is playing ... for the moment i'd say fuck yes
 
I'm all for this! Yes thank you based Haunter. You are very based. For those of you that think it's way too over centralizing or "too good" or even out does offense , I say stop being a bitch, most of the viable megas already do that shit, ( mega lopunny, mega alt, mega metagross) and bringing back the ghost would make things fun. Tired of mega alt spam? GONE. Tired of mega gross spam? GONE. I'm loving it. Plus it acts like a glue on some teams. I wont run it on my main, but i'll like having it around. I'm for this suspect and hope to see it in ou.

#FREEAEGISLASH2015

Sincerely, Omari
P

UPDATE AS OF APRIL 23rd : FUCK AEGI I WAS WRONG GET THIS DUDE OUT OF OU OMG.. it's not him personally but his presence makes broken cores possible
 
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don't trust him it must be a April 18th joke... right?

But i very much agree with this amazing suspect. having aegislash back in the tier will be the best! It wasn't so great in Ubers, only being used as a geoherb check or just as a stupid filler. this would be an amazing addition to the tier, countering some of the new mega within the ORAS metagame. and i can't wait to grind for coil for the voting abilitys, yes please i want aegi back... i miss wrecking the low ladder with my stupid sets. and as you mentioned above "it has amazing 150/150 offensive stats" meaning it will be an offensive threat, "and amazing 150/150 defenses in shield form" as well as a tanky defensive threat, making it am amazing addition. plus, with it moving back, it will have more counters within the 2 landos, mega-swampert, and mega-rule34lopunny being able to knock it out with some small hits so...
#FREEAEGISLASH2015
 
The Hydraslash combo may live again!
But seriously, beating pretty much all of the new megas is pretty big game. I'm not sure how I feel about this one
 
Im pretty curious to see how this turns out. On one side i think this could be a great chance to see how aegi works in the oras meta as things have changed quite a bit from early xy to oras. With all the new strong megas we got he might now be as bad as he was then. Also helps Handle quite a bit of mons overall. Looking forward to it.
 
With the result of slash being in this meta the s ranked lando I gets stronger. It is not what the meta needs..it also makes stall stronger giving them a finally reliable mega gardevior switch in. Hopefully the people will not let this monster stay in. He is just absolutely cancer to this meta that is atm very poor shout out to pdc :)

Only way I like slash is with a shield clause possibly

Let the 50/50's begin.

Rip Cham And Gallade again
 
I was pretty anti-ban when this thing was first banned, but right now I'm kinda thinking that it should stay in Ubers. Aegislash would probably just fair even better in ORAS then it did in XY, with things like Mega Diancie, Serperior, Mega Altaria, and Mega Latias being introduced into the metagame (Or becoming viable in the case of Serperior), one of its better checks, Greninja, now being banned to ubers, I just feel like that it should not really be unbanned. Also it was notorious for creating 50/50s and now that it can use Magnet Rise, it could start using that on some sets and create even more 50/50s and fucking some of the stuff it destroyed (Such as Mega Pinsir) even more which was part of the reason it was banned in the first place.
 

art3mis

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Alright, if Aegislash was to be unbanned, tell me, how many things in the metagame would become unviable? Taking a list off the top of my head, Mega Metagross (Would HAVE to run EQ, and even then it's iffy), Celebi, Jirachi, Mega Aerodactyl, Mega Gallade, Mega Scizor, Mega Pinsir would have to run EQ, Breloom, Hawlucha would go to shit... There are just so many decent Pokemon that would be completely unusable. Aegislash was literally on 70-80% of teams when it was allowed, and the metagame has finally adapted to it being gone. Frankly, what we have now is a very stable metagame, with the exception of Lando, and I would hate to ruin that by throwing Aegi in to the mix. It causes an extreme amount of centralization that literally nobody wants. Every team has to be prepared for it. Bringing down broken to handle broken is not a way to handle the metagame, as many people have stated before.

Aegislash relies on a disgusting 50/50 chance to win. You either beat it, or you don't. You either set up thinking it's going to King's Shield and die, or it King's Shields and you're screwed. I get that's not a reason for it to be banned, but I don't really care what people say. Playing a game of stop and go is NOT enjoyable, no matter how much you want it to be.

Then again, it's not particularly hard to handle... if you have plenty of checks to it. It limits team building to an insane degree. I know this is a different metagame from XY, but I would hate to see things like Celebi and Jirachi become complete shit again. I'm leaning towards keeping this banned.
 
First thoughts: If it's not too broken in itself I feel like this is a great glue that has the potential to make ORAS OU more balanced, as it serves as a check to megagross and fairies as well as giving a bulky pivot to balance and offense.

Might post more later on aegi but might also not lol
 
Finally glad this is happening. A lot of the justification for banning Aegislash back in XY was "50-50 coinflip" nonsense (in my opinion) about King's Shield and how it increased arbitrary decisions in the game. TBH there are many other scenarios / pokemon that create this 50 / 50 dicotomy (Pursuit, s, U-turn, Strong Choiceed users, etc...) that punish just as hard as King's Shield yet we do not go for bans on those game elements. Aegislash was never really a poke that swept teams outright, unlike some ridiculous sweepers we have now (ex .Mega-Metagross).

Another thing to consider is how much the game has evolved since Aegislash and new threats that can cover it. People have gotten more comfortable with using lower tiers pokemon that could check Aegislash like Hydreigon and Crawdaunt + newly introduced pokes that could check it like Mega-Loppunny (Encore it into a Ghost-move or King's Shield).

We banned the two best utility checks in the game (Genesect and Aegislash) and we wonder why we have a meta where we can't check everything due to matchup...

Keep in mind that you don't need to be completely sweeping teams to be broken, you can still be broken from the defensive or supportive side (If it was just offensive, then please tell me why the Deoxys forms are banned)
What I really mean by that is that Aegislash never really just "gave" the user of it the game, it just exacerbated decision-making and centralized OU. Deoxys formes gives the user the game with nearly unstoppable hazard support. Mega-Luke gives the user the game by sweeping with its ridiculous power and speed. Lugia would give users the game by blocking any offensive attempts from the opponent.

Aegislash gave the user the chance to slow down the opponent's momentum and checking a lot of threats at once. It isn't at the same level as other suspects.
 
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Nickos

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Aegislash shouldn't come back to OU, most people think it was banned because it was broken, which it wasn't, it was banned because it Overcentralized the metagame, In ORAS were introduced a lot more pokemon for him to check/counter, examples= Mega metagross, Mega Altaria, Mega Lopunny(This one is more about prediction), mega slowbro, mega beedrill, mega pidgeot, and others
 
I can't think of a reason I would want to see this unbanned. If anything, it's better against the new megas, destroying MDiancie, MMeta and having a good matchup against Lop (kings shield destroys HJK Lop) and to some extent, Altaria,, although it carries EQ/Fire Blast. We don't have anything to make it more balanced, so I think it should stay banned.
 
I was saddened when it got banned. Aegislash is a great skill based pokemon and i could see it rebalancing the meta. My only concern is that Mega Sableye stall would be getting a really versatile second version of it's namesake. However it also is a good counter to the mega Trio (Diancie, Sableye, metagross). I want to see the meta shaken up a bit.

Though it will be an overcentralizing force. Like greninja or, well aegislash.
 
Finally glad this is happening. A lot of the justification for banning Aegislash back in XY was "50-50 coinflip" nonsense (in my opinion) about King's Shield and how it increased arbitrary decisions in the game. TBH there are many other scenarios / pokemon that create this 50 / 50 dicotomy (Pursuit, s, U-turn, Strong Choiceed users, etc...) that punish just as hard as King's Shield yet we do not go for bans on those game elements. Aegislash was never really a poke that swept teams outright, unlike some ridiculous sweepers we have now (ex .Mega-Metagross).

Another thing to consider is how much the game has evolved since Aegislash and new threats that can cover it. People have gotten more comfortable with using lower tiers pokemon that could check Aegislash like Hydreigon and Crawdaunt + newly introduced pokes that could check it like Mega-Loppunny.

We banned the two best utility checks in the game (Genesect and Aegislash) and we wonder why we have a meta where we can't check everything due to matchup...
Keep in mind that you don't need to be completely sweeping teams to be broken, you can still be broken from the defensive or supportive side (If it was just offensive, then please tell me why the Deoxys forms are banned)
 
Aegislash on that probation not even bad haha. In the case of good behavior, it might be able to stay in OU which I hope for in my heart of hearts tbh .-. Ik with all the arguments and stuff against it, but maybe this is what the meta needs. Im not ruling out a meta with baegislash- not just yet. Time to dust off the fingers and get to clickin'. Shud be a fun 2 weeks
 
I was hoping for Giratina-O when I saw the title :-(


But yes I really want Aegislash to be OU again, it can deal with Altaria and Metagross which are both overcentralizing™, and lots of other megas, especially the new ones like Slowbro
It's also countered by landorus-I and also has a hard time dealing with most things that have EQ, so it definitely fits well into OU, the meta has been quite stale recently so this is going to be fun

also lmoa 2:1 w/l to be able to vote, damn it
 
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i could see aegis being unbanned in order to mend the problems in ou such as shutting down mega lop and mega meta but imo this thing might be a little too good for the meta, leaning towards keeping this thing banned
 
I was saddened when it got banned. Aegislash is a great skill based pokemon and i could see it rebalancing the meta. My only concern is that Mega Sableye stall would be getting a really versatile second version of it's namesake. However it also is a good counter to the mega Trio (Diancie, Sableye, metagross). I want to see the meta shaken up a bit.

Though it will be an overcentralizing force. Like greninja or, well aegislash.
It doesn't rebalance it at all.All it does is make some mons like M-Medicham and M-Heracross unviable while also increasing Lando-I's prowess in the process
 
I'm all for this! Yes thank you based Haunter. You are very based. For those of you that think it's way too over centralizing or "too good" or even out does offense , I say stop being a bitch, most of the viable megas already do that shit, ( mega lopunny, mega alt, mega metagross) and bringing back the ghost would make things fun. Tired of mega alt spam? GONE. Tired of mega gross spam? GONE. I'm loving it. Plus it acts like a glue on some teams. I wont run it on my main, but i'll like having it around. I'm for this suspect and hope to see it in ou.

#FREEAEGISLASh2015

Sincerely, Omari P
Except for the fact that many of these Pokemon have viable checks to begin with, and you do not need Aegislash to suddenly make these Pokemon a lot worse in the state of the metagame. Do you like Hawlucha? Aegislash makes it unviable. Do you like Toxicroak? Aegislash makes it garbage. Do you like Starmie, Celebi, and Jirachi? They all suck now because of Aegislash.
 
OK seriously sure it will limit teambuilding but that is s good thing, I'd rather have limited team building in a more skill oriented metagame than one where people constantly complain about cteam and matchup.

Also its not like you won't be able to run stuff like jirachi, they will still have their uses.

AEGISLASH BACK
 
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