np: ORAS OU Suspect Process, Round 3 - Wandering Ghosts [Aegislash remains in Ubers]

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Vryheid

fudge jelly
Top guy on the ladder right now has over 100 matches with a 4:1 win ratio and still hasn't hit the COIL requirement. I don't think I have the kind of patience to last that long but good luck to anyone who does.

I'm kind of ambivalent towards Aegislash right now. If you asked me late X/Y I'd say that losing it fucked up the balance between Steels and Fairies that was already damaged with the loss of Mega Mawile, but having Mega Metagross around kind of balances things out if you really want an aggressive answer to threats like Mega Altaria or Diancie. Is Aegislash healthy for the ORAS meta? It could help decrease the overuse of obnoxious stall teams, but the dreaded toxic/sub sets could very well help make new stall cores like Mega Sableye/Aegislash even stronger. It's also nice to have an answer to Fairy types and Metagross that doesn't take up a Mega slot, as this encourages greater variety in the kinds of Megas players will use. That being said, from the few matches I've played in Suspect I've found that Aegislash definitely is beatable with a standard ORAS team but it isn't particularly fun to deal with. Whenever you see an Aegislash you will probably find yourself constantly keeping a dedicated check/counter to it in reserve at high health because it's too versatile, bulky and luck-prone to deal with reliably through ordinary offensive pressure. It's scary to think that something like Assault Vest Azumarill or even Mega Charizard X can lose to this thing 1v1 if they get the wrong end of the Kings Shield guessing game.

On the whole Aegislash can be fun to use but a pain in the ass to go against. I don't believe in the "OU is R.I.P." hyperbole that some of the posters in here believe Aegislash will bring but I don't think it will make the meta particularly more enjoyable either.
 

DarkNostalgia

Fading in, fading out, on the edge of paradise
is a Contributor Alumnus
Personally I never had a problem with Aegislash. I had him on one of my team (out of like 12) and while I agree that he's a very strong Pokemon, I was honestly surprised when he was banned from OU. I never had my team swept by him or anything of the sort. I fee like Aegislash can be countered just by smart play, working around his King's Shield, and out-predicting. I never thought there was a reason to have him banned, and to be honest, I don't see a problem with him returning.
Just because you have no problem with something doesn't mean its not broken. I never had any problem with Mega Salamence or Greninja, doesn't mean it isn't broken.
 

SketchUp

Don't let your memes be dreams
I have seen a few arguments about how Aegislash will make teambuilding easier and I think this argument is flawed. After starting to build teams for the suspect test, I realised that teambuilding actually wasn't that easier because of Aegislash. Sure it checks many threats which gives you a lot of space for your other 5 teammates, but its presence in the metagame also puts a lot of pressure on teambuilding

1. Aegislash itself - This is not the most difficult thing to do. There are many solid Aegislash checks depending on its set and preparing for Aegislash itself is not harder than preparing for Landorus or Metagross.

2. Threats that become better - Like said before in this topic, some threats become much better because of Aegislash' precense. Landorus, Keldeo and Zard-Y all like it when the Lati@s are gone and Aegislash is arguably the best Pursuit trapper available. Preparing for Keldeo would be a lot harder when the checks you use now are all defeated by Aegislash.

3. Pokemon that got worse - This is the problem I have with Aegislash when building teams. Like I said before, because Aegislash checks so many dangerous pokemon, you have 5 team slots with a lot of space. This is not exactly true. In a non-Aegislash metagame you have many options if you want a Keldeo check. Bulky Starmie is a good choice as a Keldeo check, but with Aegislash around, Starmie would be significantly worse because it gives a lot of momentum to Aegislash. While you have 5 team slots with a lot of freedom to build because Aegislash checks 1/2 of the metagame, the amount of viable pokemon you have in these 5 team slots is a lot lower than in the current metagame, which doesn't exactly make teambuilding easier.

tl;dr: Aegislash doesn't make teambuilding that easier because you can't slap mons like Celebi that easy on your teams
 
Latis were still viable when Aegislash was around since they were (and still are) the best Defoggers all around. Celebi and Mew will live since Aegislash can't stop Celebi from Nasty Passing and Mew will just Burn it/use Knock Off as it switches in. Jirachi might suffer but it can
still use Fire Punch with a delicious 40% chance to burn but who cares about that thing anyway because fuck Serene Grace Iron Head.
The real problem with Aegis and these psychic types is not so much whether the psychic types will find their roles usurped as wish/nasty/status spreader/etc but rather the defensive synergy they come to offer to teams, of which Aegislash more or less offers the same and much more. Celebi isn't just used to Nasty pass but to deal with things like MLop/MBro and Jirachi isn't just used to spread hax and be annoying but like Victini was used to blanket check hard hitting fairy types in defensive teams, particularly as a safety measure against Hyper Voice spam by MGarde/Sylveon.

This in particular is the issue as their defensive typing more or less overlaps with Aegis, who as noted covers even more, in both weaknesses and resistances. Of course any team is unlikely to compound such weaknesses that are more or less similar which is why they end up being looked over in favor of Aegis, who blanket checks a significant portion of the metagame. Which is the bigger problem that Aegis causes in pushing down the usage of these psychic types, aside from their difficulty in dealing with him.

If anything just look at the only psychic type that managed to thrive in the OU meta when Aegis was around they were mainly Mew and Lati@s and neither really served as a check for the mons mentioned above (or are used for that specific purpose even now). Whereas Jirachi/Celebi/Slowbro/Victini are a direct response to threats which Aegis served to check prior his leaving, they more or less filled the void left over (albeit to a more limited but specialized degree).
 
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This thing cannot come back , sure it checks some current meta to threats, however it will at the same time centralize the metagame and turn it even more of a match up fest . adding the fact it can run multiple sets making predictions even more hard .
Sorry but its still broken , the argument its bad in ubers doesn't apply in OU , the amount of pokemon's this thing will make unviable is too much let it stay in ubers
 
I think we can all agree that Pursuit Aegi+any wallbreaker(Keldeo,CharY,Landorus-I) will be a really potent threat to teams.Aegislash will cause the decline in usage of the Lati twins,a check to the aforementioned mons,hence causing them to be extremely difficult to check.

I've played about 15 games now on the suspect ladder and am more than convinced that Aegislash doesn't need to be unbanned.The very existence of it in OU will make mons like Heracross,Pinsir,Medicham,all of whom have dropped in usage because of the power and speed creep in ORAS,to become next to unviable.It will also make Pokemon that have risen from UU to OU,Starmie and Jirachi in particular,to decline in usage and potentially drop to UU once again.
 
I'd add also that, even if Aegislash is somehow checkable (and you can "counter" certain set but you can't counter all its sets without running stall or stuff), as other more broken mons are (Lando), and even if it will "reduce" threatlist spectrum making certain mons no more viable, there's to say that Aegi is just really hard to deal with itself, and other than this it will add more pressure in dealing with its partners thanks to the huge support it gives to them. Just think at Lando itself or Lopunny and how their "counters/checks" are extremely weak to Aegislash. Also fairies can be supported by Aegi (however Aegi walls em so not that problem). I think Aegi won't make teambuilding better cuz it's not just a blanket check of several stuff but also a too much good support for other already powerful mons, and the pressure caused by aegi + these mons will be just too much for teambuilding
(pls don't use "aegi unban make several mons unviable" just for diversity of metagame, it's just one of the point at favor of an unban since the meta is too wide.. the problem is it will make certain pokemons too powerful, when we can just keep aegi ubers and ban those ones to fix this issue)
 
Aegislash and Landorus:

Aegislash seems fine on the suspect ladder tbh. Also, have no idea why people seem to think lando-i is some amazing god pokemon, its a good mon, nothing more (honestly almost dead weight against many HO teams and against stall). The idea of suspecting lando is laughable imo.

Dark and ghost types got buffed with aegi coming back - gengar, bish, and m-gyara are amazing on the suspect. Get yourself a gengar people. I might try and build using hydregion at some point...

Have been using a couple of teams: one with aegi, one without and currently sitting at No. 2 (ben69) on the suspect ladder. You don't need to run Aegislash on your team to be competitive, not at all.

However, when people actually figure out better teambuilding, it could be a problem (but it doesn't seem like one atm)

Suggestions for actually fixing OU:

After the suspect, can the OU council consider banning Gothitelle, M-Sableye, and Cancerpass (either by banning baton+magic bounce, or banning geomancy). (although MSable should be fine to stay if Gothitelle goes.)

The reason I would like to see Gothitelle banned is that in the reg ladder, stall is objectively the best playstyle since Goth can cheapo trap all the best stallbreakers (Manaphy, Heracross, Keldeo, Clefable to name but a few).

I won't explain the reasons for banning cancerpass since they are obvious.
 
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Okay, lets look at the definition of Uber pokes by characteristics and see if Aegislash fits them. Feel free to disagree.

Defensive Characteristic: A Pokémon is uber if, in common battle conditions, it is able to wall and stall out a significant portion of the metagame.
Does Aegislash fits into this characteristics? I don't think so.

Offensive Characteristic: A Pokémon is uber if, in common battle conditions, it is capable of sweeping through a significant portion of teams in the metagame with little effort.
I don't think so. It's not a sweeper, so not this one.

Support Characteristic: A Pokémon is uber if, in common battle conditions, it can consistently set up a situation in which it makes it substantially easier for other pokemon to sweep.
Uh does it really have support moves? I personally never see it supporting any poke since it usually performs on its own. Things like Greninja has some support move like Spikes, Toxic Spikes and U-turn to keep momentum. While I don't see it has those kind of moves.

Centralization Characteristic: Pokemon is Uber if, in a given metagame, it is a dominating force and dictates playstyles to such an extent as to be majorly centralizing.
This is probably the main reason Aegislash was banned, and probably fits it the most. Really? My interpretation of "dictates playstyles to an extent" is like "limiting playstyle severely." Take a look at Greninja for example. Offensive and Balance playstyle suffer so much because Greninja demolishes them easily. For that reason, I can see why it was banned. But does Aegislash REALLY limits any playstyle? Personally I don't see it limiting any playstyle to a degree where its almost unviable, while Greninja did that. Because of that, I don't see Aegislash fits this characteristic, because it doesn't severely limits any playstyle to an extent.

So far, I don't see Aegislash fits into these characteristics, though if anyone disagree with me, it would possibly be in Centralization Characteristic.
 
Aegislash seems fine on the suspect ladder tbh. Also, have no idea why people seem to think lando-i is some amazing god pokemon, its a good mon, nothing more (honestly almost dead weight against many HO teams and against stall). The idea of suspecting lando is laughable imo.

Dark and ghost types got buffed with aegi coming back - gengar, bish, and m-gyara are amazing on the suspect. Get yourself a gengar people. I might try and build using hydregion at some point...

Have been using a couple of teams: one with aegi, one without and currently sitting at No. 2 (ben69) on the suspect ladder. You don't need to run Aegislash on your team to be competitive, not at all.

However, when people actually figure out better teambuilding, it could be a problem (but it doesn't seem like one atm)

Suggestions for actually fixing OU:
After the suspect, can the OU council consider banning Gothitelle, M-Sableye, and Cancerpass (either by banning baton+magic bounce, or banning geomancy). (although MSable should be fine to stay if Gothitelle goes.)

The reason I would like to see Gothitelle banned is that in the reg ladder, stall is objectively the best playstyle since Goth can cheapo trap all the best stallbreakers (Manaphy, Heracross, Keldeo, Clefable to name but a few).

I won't explain the reasons for banning cancerpass since they are obvious.
So Landorus-I is deadweight against H/O?Even if it doesn't manage to get off an RP against an H/O Team,nothing is still switching in safely on it,bar the lati twins who are dealt with by Knock off/Aegislash,nothing except Azumarril stops is once it gets off an RP.Laughable?Not at all.

M-Sableye and Goth are fine tbh.They don't over centralize the meta at all and aren't broken as well so suspect testing them would be a waste of time in my opinion.M-Sableye is dealt with the array of Fairies in OU.Although Gothitelle does trap stallbreakers,it has to lock them into a move first/revenge kill them so that they're rendered useless but Gothitelle doesn't OHKO Manaphy and Clefable for sure,2HKOs Keldeo(Scald in return does 63.5-75% at +1) and 2HKOs M-Heracross as well while it's taken care of by Pin Missile.

GeoPass,ERM no comments.
 

DarkNostalgia

Fading in, fading out, on the edge of paradise
is a Contributor Alumnus
Okay, lets look at the definition of Uber pokes by characteristics and see if Aegislash fits them. Feel free to disagree.

Defensive Characteristic: A Pokémon is uber if, in common battle conditions, it is able to wall and stall out a significant portion of the metagame.
Does Aegislash fits into this characteristics? I don't think so.

Offensive Characteristic: A Pokémon is uber if, in common battle conditions, it is capable of sweeping through a significant portion of teams in the metagame with little effort.
I don't think so. It's not a sweeper, so not this one.

Support Characteristic: A Pokémon is uber if, in common battle conditions, it can consistently set up a situation in which it makes it substantially easier for other pokemon to sweep.
Uh does it really have support moves? I personally never see it supporting any poke since it usually performs on its own. Things like Greninja has some support move like Spikes, Toxic Spikes and U-turn to keep momentum. While I don't see it has those kind of moves.

Centralization Characteristic: Pokemon is Uber if, in a given metagame, it is a dominating force and dictates playstyles to such an extent as to be majorly centralizing.
This is probably the main reason Aegislash was banned, and probably fits it the most. Really? My interpretation of "dictates playstyles to an extent" is like "limiting playstyle severely." Take a look at Greninja for example. Offensive and Balance playstyle suffer so much because Greninja demolishes them easily. For that reason, I can see why it was banned. But does Aegislash REALLY limits any playstyle? Personally I don't see it limiting any playstyle to a degree where its almost unviable, while Greninja did that. Because of that, I don't see Aegislash fits this characteristic, because it doesn't severely limits any playstyle to an extent.

So far, I don't see Aegislash fits into these characteristics, though if anyone disagree with me, it would possibly be in Centralization Characteristic.
It fits defensive characteristic easily. It blanket checks half the meta - if that isn't 'wall a significant portion of the metagame' idk wtf it is.
 

Shaka Brah

Banned deucer.
150/150 offenses

Just think about it. This thing has 150/150 offenses – the same as Deoxys-N, which a few of you may recall was hilariously legal in OU for a few days. The difference here is that Deoxys had the coverage and speed to handle its checks, whereas Aegislash simply can just click Shadow Ball and demolish 90% of the meta. With just one move. If you don’t resist it and don’t have invested HP/SpD approaching Heatran’s, you will be taking over half from this move alone. This isn’t even considering the fact that Aegis’ coverage is nothing to scoff at. When looking at the (hilariously outdated) moveset statistics from January, Mandibuzz, Gliscor and Bisharp were the three most common Aegis switch-ins, who are all demolished by a viable move Aegis can run – Head Smash, which is sometimes seen on Life Orb sets KOs Mandibuzz after rocks with only paltry investment, and is severely dented with Flash Cannon. Gliscor is obviously slammed hard by Shadow Ball, and Bisharp has to be very careful switching in or it dies to a Sacred Sword. Of course, it’s unlikely that Aegis is running all of these different moves on one set, but it’s the fact that Aegis can tailor its set to beat certain counters with almost no drawbacks – very similar to Genesect – that is the problem.

On top of the fact that Aegis can nuke most of its checks with the correct move, it also is in possession of a very powerful priority move in Shadow Sneak, which, coming off even slightly invested base 150, can KO a lot of switchins to Aegis after they’ve taken a Shadow Ball.

252+ SpA Spooky Plate Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 208-246 (64.3 - 76.1%)

24 Atk Spooky Plate Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 82-97 (25.3 - 30%)

Even with minimum rolls on both, you do at least 90%, which KOs after two turns of rocks, one LO tick, or just about any residual damage you can think of. This is an INSANE amount of damage to something with respectable 91/90/90 defenses, and shows that there is basically no sweeper in the game that can switch in on Aegis safely.

Due to a large number of factors, Aegislash can also tailor its item to suit the needs of your team effortlessly. Balanced or Offensive teams can employ Spooky Plate or Life Orb sets to smash through other offensive teams and do quite a number on more defensively oriented ones. Leftovers is also an extremely viable option, as Aegilash can create free turns for itself on virtually the entire tier by clicking King’s Shield, and forces mindgames with every sweeper that intends to set up on it. Weakness Policy, especially paired with Autotomize, turns Aegislash from the best tank in the history of the game into one that can absolute crush teams without a dedicated counter to its specific set – which makes late-game cleaning an absolute breeze. Balloon and Colbur Berry further illustrate the point that Aegislash can tailor its item to suit the needs of the team, with the former allowing you to come in for free against the likes of Garchomp, Toxic-stall Gliscor, Hippodown, etc and the latter luring in and disposing of unsuspecting Bisharp.

150/150 defenses and a protecting move that gives -2 to contact moves

252+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 272-324 (83.9 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

Yeah, that’s Adamant coming off of base 145, STAB. Essentially the most powerful unboosted Earthquake you’re likely to see in OU, and with it, you don’t even OHKO. The same can be said about non-mega Garchomp, Excadril, Gliscor (lol), Hippodown, etc etc (most of the above downright losing to Aegislash 1v1 with some combination of Shadow Ball + Sneak). Even a fully invested Life Orb Bisharp Knock Off isn’t a guaranteed kill – Aegislash is THAT bulky. So bulky in fact, that it shrugs off hit after hit from uninvested or not-super-effective foes, and responds by nuking another member of your team.

One thing that separates Aegislash from other Pokemon is the fact that not only can it not be trapped by conventional means – Shadow Tag/Magnet Pull/Arena Trap (not that any of the users in the tier can beat Aegislash 1v1 anyway), but revenge killing it in general is next to impossible. If you’re not running a Bisharp on your team or similar, the Aegislash user can simply switch out, or switch back into defense form, fucking over many of the tier’s premiere revenge killers – Banded Talonflame, Scarf users like Landorus-T, etc

EXTREMELY centralizing

Aegislash is ungodly hard on teambuilding. To build a decent team in a meta where Aegislash exists, you’re essentially forced to either run:

A.) One or more dedicated “counters” such as Mandibuzz, SpD Hippdown, AV Conkeldurr, Bisharp, Heatran, Umbreon – which, by the way, all lose to one or more of the sets listed above OR

B.) Several assorted checks to Aegis that either cannot switch in but can force it out (Garchomp, Keldeo, Greninja, basically every “frail” sweeper in the tier that can hit it super effectively)/cannot force it out but can take multiple hits from it (Vaporeon, Ferrothorn, non-Heat Wave Zapdos, etc)

And usually there’s a bit of both. Sweepers like Latios become a liability on most teams, as a free switch into Aegislash means another member of your team is about to take over half from a counter attack. Not even beginning to mention ‘Mons like Gengar and Alakazam who are OHKO’d from full by a Shadow Sneak (or Pursuit, which is a move Aegis can easily run on Lando/Keld/Pursuit trap and similar cores).

Creates 50/50 mindgame situations constantly – aka why Aegis cannot be set up on

Most things that would love to set up on Aegis are forced to either do so and take 65%+ from Spooky Plate Shadow Ball, or attack and are denied setup. Even leads like Heatran or Landorus-T, who were and are Stealth Rock using staples of most teams are locked in a coinflip against an Aegislash; either get your hazard and be crippled for the rest of the match (especially harmful to leads like the above, since they have no form of recovery) or attack the Aegis and hope you didn’t just waste a turn while it used King’s Shield. The bottom line is that having a “free turn” when an Aegislash is on the opposing field is borderline impossible.

Is an unhealthily easy way to scout choice items - aka Aegis cannot be forced out by choice users

Choice users are a very rare sight in the current meta – and for good reason: how easily they’re scouted by Aegislash. Previously top-tier Scarfers like Lando-T, Genesect (while it was still around), Garchomp, Keldeo, Terrakion are all stopped cold by Aegislash. You cannot overpredict while it is on the field, because it uses King’s Shield turn 1. Then, if you over-predicted and used a move like a Terrakion Stone Edge, you’ve automatically lost the exchange because you’re forced out or killed. And even if you chose the correct move in dispatching Aegislash, you are forced into yet another 50-50 situation: do they switch out into a Mon that can handle your attack? or do they stay in and deck another member of your team while you predict their switch and switch yourself? An all-around unhealthy situation completely in the Aegislash user’s favor simply because they’re using an Aegislash.

TL;DR – Aegislash is an unhealthy part of the metagame because it nukes every sweeper in the tier, can take enormously powerful hits from every unboosted ‘Mon, completely shits on stall and offense archetypes alike, forces 50/50 mindgames on all set-up mons, destroys the viability of choice users (especially scarfers) and creates huge amounts of free turns for your team simply by existing.

This was written a long time ago, when 252 HP spooky plate aegis (which I still believe is a pretty good set) was the norm; before the sub/toxic (that shit on mandibuzz and most teams without a heatran) and max speed life orb (that lure and kill bisharp/ttar/heatran and others) came to popularity. Most of it is still at least partially relevant today, and though meta shifts have rendered some points generally moot, I think most of the main points still have merit.
 
So Landorus-I is deadweight against H/O?Even if it doesn't manage to get off an RP against an H/O Team,nothing is still switching in safely on it,bar the lati twins who are dealt with by Knock off/Aegislash,nothing except Azumarril stops is once it gets off an RP.Laughable?Not at all.

M-Sableye and Goth are fine tbh.They don't over centralize the meta at all and aren't broken as well so suspect testing them would be a waste of time in my opinion.M-Sableye is dealt with the array of Fairies in OU.Although Gothitelle does trap stallbreakers,it has to lock them into a move first/revenge kill them so that they're rendered useless but Gothitelle doesn't OHKO Manaphy and Clefable for sure,2HKOs Keldeo(Scald in return does 63.5-75% at +1) and 2HKOs M-Heracross as well while it's taken care of by Pin Missile.

GeoPass,ERM no comments.
The point that goth cant OHKO manaphy or clefable is irrelevant since once it tricks them a scarf, they are 100% useless since stall always has a chansey.

Most good teams (by good, I mean capable of beating any playstyle) are forced to run a Mega Alt/Garde or M-lopunny to have a chance against goth stall, which is very restrictive for teambuilding. You really don't want to have to run a magnezone for skarm, since zone is a bit of a shit mon most of the time.

The problem is that to build a team that is strong v. stall and offence, means that your choices are very restricted indeed.
 

Empress

The future's so bright I gotta wear Black Glasses
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Personally I never had a problem with Aegislash. I had him on one of my team (out of like 12) and while I agree that he's a very strong Pokemon, I was honestly surprised when he was banned from OU. I never had my team swept by him or anything of the sort. I fee like Aegislash can be countered just by smart play, working around his King's Shield, and out-predicting. I never thought there was a reason to have him banned, and to be honest, I don't see a problem with him returning.
"I never had a problem with it" is really not a legit reason to vote no ban on Aegislash- or any suspect at all, for that matter. Laddering is only part of the equation and is quite frankly a poor indicator of the brokenness of a mon. Also, be careful about the prediction argument. It goes both ways. Just because you are trying to outsmart the opponent doesn't mean they'll do exactly what you thought they would do. Mispredict against Aegi and you'll pay dearly, which goes to show how dangerous it is.
 
Honestly, Aegislash makes teambuilding harder if anything, not easier. It also makes the meta more stale. After Aegi left, the meta was a lot better, and now it has more threats to check, why would it be worse now? It's kinda hard to prepare for, makes for amazing glue for many top threats, and in general makes the meta worse. It has an amazing typing, a borderline broken ability in stance change, and what I believe to be one of the best moves in the game in king's shield. How something as restricting as this can make the meta better i don't know.

Even if it does make it easier to prepare for threats, which it doesn't, I can argue matchup based meta > stale meta, which I honestly believe.
 

xray

how u doin'?
is a Tiering Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
World Defender
Aegi fixes weaks vs some mons ok but its so fucking overcentralized.
I played 17 matches on suspect ladder and it is on almost every fucking team, also kshield just sucks ;(
PLEASE GUYS BAN IT ;cccc
 
Aegi fixes weaks vs some mons ok but its so fucking overcentralized.
I played 17 matches on suspect ladder and it is on almost every fucking team, also kshield just sucks ;(
PLEASE GUYS BAN IT ;cccc
Of course it's on every team. The suspect ladder always has more of the suspected Mon.
 
Aegi fixes weaks vs some mons ok but its so fucking overcentralized.
I played 17 matches on suspect ladder and it is on almost every fucking team, also kshield just sucks ;(
PLEASE GUYS BAN IT ;cccc
I'm pro ban too, but you can't expect people not to use the Pokemon, which was formerly Uber.
It's pretty much guaranteed that people try and see what Aegislash can do, which is good and why there is the Suspect ladder.
 
I don't think that bringing back Aegi will be that healthy for the meta: sure it can check / counter some big threats in ou, but it will just become another threat that is difficult to counter ( unless you want to put chesnaught / mandibuzz on every team, which screams overcentralisation ) and that could support other mons making them even more dangerous ( aegi trapkills some of the best counters to lando-i and keldeo, 2 mons that are s-rank even without aegi ). Unbanning another dangerous threat is not the best choice if we want a less matchup-reliant metagame, especially if this threat can also be a great support for other very powerful mons by pursuiting their counters or just spamming 150 bp shadow balls w stab. ORAS already has a very high number of threats that limit teambuilding, we don't need a new one.
 
I believe the Aegi is not so broken, but it severly limits the use and appearance of many pokemons like Starmie and Medicham. Sometimes it can make the environment too simple. So it's acceptable, but not healthy.
 
I believe the Aegi is not so broken, but it severly limits the use and appearance of many pokemons like Starmie and Medicham. Sometimes it can make the environment too simple. So it's acceptable, but not healthy.
Mega sableye already walled both of those though
 
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