np: ORAS UU Stage 3.2 - Game of Pricks [Pidgeotite voted BL] - See Post #257

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uhm



Doesn't this apply to basically any fast offensive pokemon? Just because scarfers can revenge kill it does not mean it isn't a problem in the metagame. Scarfers revenge kill S Rank mons, so does that mean these pokemon are not threats? So because a scarfer can kill Hydreigon after it drops a draco, or Salamence after an outrage, these pokemon are balanced? The scarfer prevents said pokemon from forcing you to take a huge hit and potentially sack a mon?
Sometimes you have to sack pidgeot just to get a good switch it on a threat.Just saying there are options at dealing with it. Anything is a threat when used right and in UU, most teams are equipped to deal with it and its not because of pidgeot.

Let's list off the pokemon in UU that outspeed Mega Pidgeot without a scarf.

1. Mega Aerodactyl
2. Mega Beedrill
3. Mega Sceptile
4. Crobat

If being at a speed tier that outspeeds all but four pokemon isn't good, I don't know what is.
Well, from lower tiers, you also have Jolteon and I believe another poke there with base 145 speed. To be fair though, most teams have scarfed pokemon. Speed is not the only thing going against it though.

I'd say 83/80/80 defenses for an offensive pokemon are way above normal, allowing it to take, as you've shown, super effective STAB hits from defensive pokemon and still have enough HP to switch in on rocks (though I'm not sure why any Pidgeot would stay in vs a defensive Rotom, but the option is there if you need it). Off the top of my head, the only pokemon that can OHKO Mega Pidgeot with a neutral hit is Darmanitan's Flare Blitz, with Mienshao having around an 80% chance with Reckless HJK. Pidgeot takes almost every other unboosted neutral hit.
Salamence is 95/80/80, so whats the point here? Pidgeot isnt the only sweeper who can take a hit and dish out the damage. This thing with Moxie and scarf/ DD is a threat, even more so if you cant drop it or cripple it. Pidgeot isn't taking hits well. If it does any the opponents has priority, its a done deal, even more so if they have rocks up.

Well you just showed a calc where a super effective hit did 72% max, so I'm not sure how you got to the conclusion that non super effective hits do 75-80. Even in the calc you posted, a max SpA modest Moonblast does 71% max, so that really doesn't support your claim either.
my 75 to 80% is from the max I've seen dealt to my pidgeot. Sure it can take one hit in some cases but an explosion from azelf kills in one hit. Any powerful sweeper can drop a pidgeot easy. Pidgeot also has to mega to gain its speed. On the rotom thing, a sweeper rotom KOs it.

While I don't know myself whether I'm voting ban or not, I will make sure my decision is educated, and I hope yours is, too, because the reasoning behind your decision to vote 'no ban' really doesn't make much sense. I honestly don't mind whether Mega Pidgeot stays, as long as the reasoning behind its fate is a logical one.
I would vote no because I play mega pidgeot eveyday in UU (not recently because of the test). Pidgeot has its problems within the tier. It has to mega first to do anything and it has to not hit a team that resit it well. No pidgeot is staying in on a threat and will switch out if it needs to. Not saying none of your points aren;t valid but I'm saying as an avid pidgeot user, its not as bad as people make it out to be.
 
I suggest the battling 101 sections before you attempt to make serious posts on a suspect -.-

>super easily outsped. How can you be so naive to say it is super easily outsped. It outspeeds the entire metagame bar 3 pokes in driller, mega scept, and aero (And jolteon I even though nobody uses it blah blah blah).
and those 3 pokes also outspeed the rest of the meta. There are options to use against it.

All pidgeots are Timid lmfao
Well, yeah, they have to run timid.
 

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yea i think you have to try and understand this game a bit better crystal pidgeot
 
Sometimes you have to sack pidgeot just to get a good switch it on a threat.Just saying there are options at dealing with it. Anything is a threat when used right and in UU, most teams are equipped to deal with it and its not because of pidgeot.



Well, from lower tiers, you also have Jolteon and I believe another poke there with base 145 speed. To be fair though, most teams have scarfed pokemon. Speed is not the only thing going against it though.



Salamence is 95/80/80, so whats the point here? Pidgeot isnt the only sweeper who can take a hit and dish out the damage. This thing with Moxie and scarf/ DD is a threat, even more so if you cant drop it or cripple it. Pidgeot isn't taking hits well. If it does any the opponents has priority, its a done deal, even more so if they have rocks up.



my 75 to 80% is from the max I've seen dealt to my pidgeot. Sure it can take one hit in some cases but an explosion from azelf kills in one hit. Any powerful sweeper can drop a pidgeot easy. Pidgeot also has to mega to gain its speed. On the rotom thing, a sweeper rotom KOs it.



I would vote no because I play mega pidgeot eveyday in UU (not recently because of the test). Pidgeot has its problems within the tier. It has to mega first to do anything and it has to not hit a team that resit it well. No pidgeot is staying in on a threat and will switch out if it needs to. Not saying none of your points aren;t valid but I'm saying as an avid pidgeot user, its not as bad as people make it out to be.
Jolteon is bad because it's outclassed by Heliolisk and Mega Ampharos as well as Rotoms and Accelgor? lmao. Pidgeot can just spam Hurricane and 2hko the entire meta, as you said, anything is a threat when used right, a good Pidgeot user WILL take lives of a lot of mons in the opponents team if they do not have anything for it, like Empoleon. Even then, it can predict the switch and U-Turn out to something that threatens Empoleon. Not only it can spam 110 BP never missing move with 30% confuse rate, it can create momentum and a perfect coverage with Heat Wave. Just as you've used Mega Pidgeot in UU, we all have as well, and most of us, can say it is broken. It'd be helpful for us if you stop being biased, and face the reality, your arguments are pointless because SpD Rotom-H is not even viable enough to be listed; it does nothing otherwise. And Florges aren't max SpA Modest lol. Also, just because you cannot set up with Work Up doesn't mean we all can. So yeah, please think a bit more before posting. :)
 
Jolteon is bad because it's outclassed by Heliolisk and Mega Ampharos as well as Rotoms and Accelgor? lmao. Pidgeot can just spam Hurricane and 2hko the entire meta, as you said, anything is a threat when used right, a good Pidgeot user WILL take lives of a lot of mons in the opponents team if they do not have anything for it, like Empoleon. Even then, it can predict the switch and U-Turn out to something that threatens Empoleon. Not only it can spam 110 BP never missing move with 30% confuse rate, it can create momentum and a perfect coverage with Heat Wave. Just as you've used Mega Pidgeot in UU, we all have as well, and most of us, can say it is broken. It'd be helpful for us if you stop being biased, and face the reality, your arguments are pointless because SpD Rotom-H is not even viable enough to be listed; it does nothing otherwise. And Florges aren't max SpA Modest lol. Also, just because you cannot set up with Work Up doesn't mean we all can. So yeah, please think a bit more before posting. :)
thats exactly my point. IF you can setup a work up and the opponent does nothing about it, then good for you. A good opponent will do something about it. Beedrill also can u-turn and create momentum and in most cases, it does it better and goes into something that can be a threat. Even Pidgeots heatwave isn't knocking out a healthy poke. Sure I may have some bias on my end but from my hundreds of hours of playing mega pidgeot, its not as free as people are saying it is. Not all players copy paste pokes either. I know you all live in this perfect world where battle go 100% according to play but this is never the case.

Not saying any of you are wrong because you all have really good points but pidgeot isn't free. You need to deal with its threats first.
 
This man is making absolutely zero sense and this thread is just becoming cancerous, I say we just stop quoting him as a whole and just move on with the damn suspect because this guy is not going to quit and the thread is just going to be flooded 1000 feebas avatars which nobody wants to see.
 
The meta without Mega Pidgeot I don't find is that much different other than the abundance of M-Sharpedo, M-Beedrill, M-Aero on a lot of teams I saw then your usual threats with Mamoswine, Feraligatr, Hydreigon, and so forth. There's a bit more team-building freedom, considering your defensive components of the team aren't getting cheesed by Confusion hax which is an aspect that pushes M-Pidgeot over the edge along with the fact its move is already powerful to begin with. I think Mega Pidgeots issue in the meta is the team-building constraint it applies into practice against more balance inclined teams than what is perceived on paper in the fact your Mega Pidgeot checks might not actually be checks in the context of all the nuisances taken into account.

Removing Mega Pidgeot from the meta-game might not make the meta-game entirely better or whatever people are trying to perceive as better in their own line of thinking. It's a start though to remove a team-building constraint on the level of Mega Pidgeot in my eyes, more so eliminating an easy button for a lot of builds simply cause it's fast as hell, hits hard as hell, and most checks are shaky at best or are resorted to roles of revenge killers to actually check it.

I guess my two cents with this last point Mega Pidgeot is pretty "centralizing" but there's a lot of threats right now that are pretty strong or can potentially be on par to Mega Pidgeots level based on a variety of circumstances so granted this suspect is obviously warranted but I wouldn't over exaggerate its capabilities like crazy and say things such as "6-0 stall" or some of the realistically crazy lines I've been seeing.

Also jesus christ these volt-turn teams everywhere wtf dude ;-;
 
To be honest, I haven't really had much trouble with Mega Pidgeot, sure it has 100% accurate Hurricane and heat wave..but that is it! Empoleon comes to mind for a good SpDef Check/Counter, same with Blissey. Keep in mind that No Guard works both ways, both for it and against it! that means attacks with bad accuracy but amazing power WILL hit it without fail! Scarfed Heliolisk is also something to keep in mind for a good check. Aerodactyl/mega Aerodactyl are also good checks/counters to Mega Pidgeot as they resist Hurricane and Heat Wave. SpDef mega Aggron can also be considered in the list for counters as well as SpDef Mega Ampharos as it resists both Hurricane and heat wave and can threaten it out with powerful Electric Attacks. AV Goodra could also be considered since base 150 SpDef is ridiculous and with AV boosting the SpDef...yeah lol. Rotom Heat straight up counters it since none of Mega Pidgeots viable moves (U-turn, heat Wave, hurricane) are not very effective. SpDef Milotic with toxic stall + recover gives it problems, same with SpDef vaporeon with wish support. Rhyperior ruins it with Stone Edge or Rock Blast. Snorlax threatens it, especially the AV variants. Umbreon and Florges can also be thrown in there as they will not falter to Mega Pidgeot.

Sorry for the long post lol but that's my 2 cents. I know people will disagree, I respect everyone's opinions. :] Thank you
 
The meta without Mega Pidgeot I don't find is that much different other than the abundance of M-Sharpedo, M-Beedrill, M-Aero on a lot of teams I saw then your usual threats with Mamoswine, Feraligatr, Hydreigon, and so forth. There's a bit more team-building freedom, considering your defensive components of the team aren't getting cheesed by Confusion hax which is an aspect that pushes M-Pidgeot over the edge along with the fact its move is already powerful to begin with. I think Mega Pidgeots issue in the meta is the team-building constraint it applies into practice against more balance inclined teams than what is perceived on paper in the fact your Mega Pidgeot checks might not actually be checks in the context of all the nuisances taken into account.

Removing Mega Pidgeot from the meta-game might not make the meta-game entirely better or whatever people are trying to perceive as better in their own line of thinking. It's a start though to remove a team-building constraint on the level of Mega Pidgeot in my eyes, more so eliminating an easy button for a lot of builds simply cause it's fast as hell, hits hard as hell, and most checks are shaky at best or are resorted to roles of revenge killers to actually check it.

I guess my two cents with this last point Mega Pidgeot is pretty "centralizing" but there's a lot of threats right now that are pretty strong or can potentially be on par to Mega Pidgeots level based on a variety of circumstances so granted this suspect is obviously warranted but I wouldn't over exaggerate its capabilities like crazy and say things such as "6-0 stall" or some of the realistically crazy lines I've been seeing.

Also jesus christ these volt-turn teams everywhere wtf dude ;-;
I agree with your post. Sure Pidgeot is good but its not like people are running things like Empoloeon and other pokes because of Pidgeot. I have notice nothing has changed much as well and well balanced teams should be able to handle it. Right now when I build my teams, its to stop beedrill.

This man is making absolutely zero sense and this thread is just becoming cancerous, I say we just stop quoting him as a whole and just move on with the damn suspect because this guy is not going to quit and the thread is just going to be flooded 1000 feebas avatars which nobody wants to see.
Changed my avatar just for you.
 
I'm wondering if anyone who's been playing the suspect test recently has noticed a sizable drop in m-aero usage?
considering that was a big counter argument to pidgeot's brokenness I'm curious if its absence has had any effect
 
I agree with your post. Sure Pidgeot is good but its not like people are running things like Empoloeon and other pokes because of Pidgeot. I have notice nothing has changed much as well and well balanced teams should be able to handle it. Right now when I build my teams, its to stop beedrill.
I still think Mega Pidgeot should be banned because it's still an enormous team building constraint in practice. Having your most consistent STAB have a confusion rate at the level of what a Scald burn can apply and being one of the faster mons in the tier with an already high special attack isn't exactly a healthy aspect. If there were better flying resists that were more consistent it would be a different story but really a lot of them are kind of bad and the good ones are just playing a gamble to not get worn down or just confused. You have stuff like Mega Ampharos and Empoleon that work pretty well, but eventually just get overwhelmed overtime being a switch in to it. Also the fact it pairs up with all the already strong non megas right now as a focal point of these cohesive unit is a huge selling point to its centralization as well. A lot of the stronger threats in the tier barring stuff like Hydreigon, Infernape, and Lucario are really physically inclined, think Feraligatr and Mamoswine, which made these physically inclined mons even harder to deal with since M-Pidgeots offensive support helps pave the way for them to win. It's not just Mega Pidgeot alone but also the idea that it's amplifying a lot of stuff that right now, without it around in the suspect test, able to be a bit more manageable for balanced teams to go up against.
I'm wondering if anyone who's been playing the suspect test recently has noticed a sizable drop in m-aero usage?
considering that was a big counter argument to pidgeot's brokenness I'm curious if its absence has had any effect
Its usage hasn't dropped I don't see why it would. It's a super great check to Mega Beedrill right now and has the same old utility it's always had. That, M-Sharpedo, and M-Beedrill are the only megas I've been seeing on the suspect as of now and a couple of stuff like M-Ampharos as well.
 
Its usage hasn't dropped I don't see why it would. It's a super great check to Mega Beedrill right now and has the same old utility it's always had. That, M-Sharpedo, and M-Beedrill are the only megas I've been seeing on the suspect as of now and a couple of stuff like M-Ampharos as well.
ah ty i was just tryna get a feel for the new meta so i can build a proper god squawd hehe
 
I'm wondering if anyone who's been playing the suspect test recently has noticed a sizable drop in m-aero usage?
considering that was a big counter argument to pidgeot's brokenness I'm curious if its absence has had any effect
I haven't seen very much Mega Aerodactyl either, but I have seen a lot of Mega Sceptile. The changes to the meta are definitely very favorable to it; the loss of Pidgeot itself is part of that, but the apparent drop in the usage of Scarf Salamence/Hydreigon, Mamoswine, and Aerodactyl all benefit Sceptile.
 
I haven't seen very much Mega Aerodactyl either, but I have seen a lot of Mega Sceptile. The changes to the meta are definitely very favorable to it; the loss of Pidgeot itself is part of that, but the apparent drop in the usage of Scarf Salamence/Hydreigon, Mamoswine, and Aerodactyl all benefit Sceptile.
Mega Sceptile is usually seen in low ladder, it was seen usually in the previous suspect test as well, in higher ladder, the usage of Mega Sharpedo and Mega Beedrill rose as well as Mega Blastoise. Mega Aero usage remains the same it seems.
 
I have played about 30 games and I didn't find the meta got big change(maybe there are less Empoleon than before).
Even without Mega pidg,Empoleon is still a good mon in the tier.
Mega pidg is not broken in my mind.It do have checks and counters,I understand this doesn't mean not broken though.
The bird doesn't fit every team/playstyle and doesn't have rediculous power for a mega.
It has only one reliable STAB move.People are saying that spam with 30% confuse hax is broken.
But hax is the part of the game,I'm not saying rely on hax is the correct way to play but hax is something we can't avoid.
Its bulk really makes it hard to setup.And it only got work up,not nasty plot.I really don't see why a well built and played stall will be simply 6-0ed by it.
 
well,thanks for sharing.I do believe the bird has some ability to break stall at the beginning.
But just for that replay,that win is a team cooperation not something like the opponent'm team simply beaten by mega pidg
But Pidgeot makes it really really easier for me to break my opponent's team, that is broken lol
 
Yes, Pidgeot beats Stall teams with no Flying resists/only incredibly passive special walls that can't pressure it. This has been established. Reuniclus beats stall teams with no Dark types, Snorlax beats stall with no Fighting types, Suicune beats stall with no grass types or Water Absorb users, bulky Salamence beats stall with no Fairies, etc. Having the ability to set up on a passive wall isn't "broken lol"
 
If people don't have a reliable check to M-Pidge, that's when they run into trouble. Roar Suicune, Blissey, CM Cress, P2 are all okay defensive options. But, I've found it easier to just hit it hard with M-Aero, Scarf Heliolisk, Jolteon, M-Beedrill, Crobat, etc.. In your replay, once they eliminated or weakened Pidge's checks, it was able to WU Refresh sweep. It was great team support and I think it would've gone exactly the same way even if he had decided to sweep with SD Doublade at that point (which would've again had little issue boosting in front of blissey).

taoke I think you're underselling M-Pidge just a bit. 110 base power Hurricane with 30% of confusion coming from a base 135 sp attack at base 121 speed. It can hit hard and fast. It's just as powerful as Alakazam, which was a fantastic mon (not even mega mind you) in UU. Comparing it mega-wise, it's pretty average compared to say M-Beedrill with Adaptability. The ladder is definitely filling up with Grass and Fighting types that weren't being used as often. While Pidge is very 1-dimensional, it doesn't have to change too much in order to be effective. Spamming high bp moves with no drawbacks and is at a speed tier that's checks most of the UU Meta. But, the meta that does outspeed it are top choices and fantastic mons that are good other than checking Pidge.

But, I'm at about 1800-1900 so far. Personally, I'm enjoying this meta with Infernape getting new life (I'm loving the SD Flame Charge set to whoever mentioned it before!). But, the meta hasn't changed much overall. The lack of Pidge definitely puts some relief on team building. But, the same checks that were used before are still being used to good effect. I think Pidge is a pretty easy to use with few drawbacks. So, it's definitely a top tier mon, but I am leaning more towards No Ban at this time, unless I see some good arguments against it...

Oh, and happy 4th of July everybody!
 
That was a good replay and shows what it can do when it can setup but like others said, this is no different than a +6 sweep with another Pokemon and Pokemon has always been a game of removing your opponents key pieces so you can bring in your sweeper and take the game. If you're not playing against a stall team, workup is pretty hard to use effectively. Against HO, you'll hardly have the chance to click anything else other than Hurricane because you're being pressured. Sure its easy to use because of no miss hurricanes.

I prefer the version that has 3 attacks so I can be more versatile against everything, but stall becomes a problem.
 
You don't NEED Work Up to devastate HO. If you aren't using Mega Aero, which generally is one of the best Megas for HO, there are few-to-no good Pokemon on HO that can take Hurricane. I've ran Empoleon on HO before for Defog and taking Hurricanes and while it did those decently it was a massive momentum sink even with its good movepool and base 111 Special Attack.
 
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