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np: OU Suspect Testing Round 5 - Sandstorm (Excadrill/Thundurus Banned)
- Thread starter JabbaTheGriffin
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It does learn Baton Pass through Pokemon XD. It just can't have Magic Mirror with it :P
As an extra tidbit of information: UU banned Espeon rather than using any other sort of ban. That was because Baton Pass was overpowered down there. This throws another argument into the mix, surely if Baton Pass is broken, banning Espeon would show uniformity. However, you could also argue that OU is a different tier with different threats and such.
Trying to instigate a little more discussion out of the topic.
Trying to instigate a little more discussion out of the topic.
Why are we discussing the brokenness of Baton Pass when it's not even used that much (which, tbh should say much about it's brokenness -_-)? Seriously, there are more important things to be worrying about like Drizzle.... If you're having issues with BP most of those teams can be handled by a simple change in a mon's moveslot. Just do it if you think it warrants it... >.>
I want to know, what is it that makes BP so broken when we have heavy bitters like CB nite and CB tar to attack with early on; not to mention they fall apart if you use perish song on your Politoed which is already on like half the teams on the ladder. -.-
I want to know, what is it that makes BP so broken when we have heavy bitters like CB nite and CB tar to attack with early on; not to mention they fall apart if you use perish song on your Politoed which is already on like half the teams on the ladder. -.-
I can't agree more.
| 11 | Excadrill | 52444 | 13.152% |
| 13 | Thundurus | 44021 | 11.039% |
| 32 | Espeon | 26200 | 6.570% |
And only about 1/4 of the Espeons I see are on BP teams.
You're forgetting the fifth option and possibly the best of them, outlined in the post right above yours.
And the related, simpler sixth option, but I don't think any of us want that.
Indeed. Brokneness is not simply about having the potential to be used in an overpowering way. If a strategy has that potential, but it does not have the presence to have much of an impact on the metagame, we must consider the possibility that that alone may render a strategy not broken, at least for a time.
Perhaps because it got a Simple Majority in the last round of the suspect testing process?
I think it only got a simple majority because people don't want to adapt to it. Look at Excadrill. You had to have a Gliscor, Bronzong, or Skarmory (or some form of check). Otherwise, you'd get swept. To check BP, all that is required is a simple move change on the #4 most used Pokemon, Politoed. Even then, there are moves like Encore, Haze, Roar, and even Clear Smog that ruin BP chains. If you don't want to run those moves then just run a hard hitter like CB nite or CB tar. There are so many ways of dealing with it, it's no surprise it's not that common. >.>
Considering the suspect voting will change, it may end up differently, however.
I still don't see how big of a force BP is supposed to be, though.
If it is so strong and overpowering, why isn't it used more?
I wished people who voted BP thought about that.
note: i don't think bp is broken but...
something that is strong could not be used because a) it is hard to use effectively or b) because people don't "like" using it and therefore, do not use it; think gen 4 wobb
BP in my opinion is broken now especially now that we have DW Volbeat. Sure, before we could smash pass, but now we can pass +3 SAtk boost with no drawbacks?!? This definatly adds to BP's brokenness, as any fast special sweeper becomes almost unstoppable with that kind of boost. Add on the +6 Spd Ninjask can give you and Espeon being able to beat almost every BP counter out there and suddenly you have a major threat.
The reason I think people don't use it much is basically what ssbbm said. BP is very difficult to use since one mistake and you could lose your chain not to mention the game. Also, BP isn't that fun to play, as you basically do the exact same thing every battle.
The reason I think people don't use it much is basically what ssbbm said. BP is very difficult to use since one mistake and you could lose your chain not to mention the game. Also, BP isn't that fun to play, as you basically do the exact same thing every battle.
The drawback is using Volbeat.
Then it's not "+3 SAtk being baton passed", it's "lol BP Chain" and those already have Calm Mind passers anyway.
Not always. I've seen stuff like Acid Armor Vaporeon BPing before. Plus, say you were passing to something bulky that wouldn't get KO'd, like a Latias.
In order to get to +6 Speed with Ninjask, you have to wait 6 turns with.
A Phazer can come in and Whirlwind/Roar you out. A hard hitter such as Haxorus can get in and just kill you. And with Ninjask's frailty, you usually won't succeed to get +6 unless you use Agility instead of Swords Dance.
And don't say Substitute, cause Haxorus got Dual Chop.
Please say what can switch into a CB Haxorus Outrage besides Steels, of which are not that common on BP teams. Did I mention Male Skarmory gets 2HKO'd by Rivalry CB Outrage with rocks? And if Espy comes in, just use Dragon Tail (This doesn't have to be Haxorus), provided you weren't nice enough to give them a sub.
Still don't see the broken part, or the major threat part for that matter.
The bolded parts are just plain untrue.
1. Tell me what can counter Wobbuffett after it traps your Ferrothorn/Skarmory/Whatever and Encores a useless move. Exactly, nothing can counter it due to the very nature of a "counter".
2. Having no counters does NOT mean it's broken. Something can have little to no counters, but have tons of checks that are really easy to fit on a team. This is why I feel Excadrill didn't deserve the boot. yea, he had few counters, but lots of things could check him.(Another example is Salamence or MixNite)
In other words, you're referring to an extremely specific and situational scenario that would be obvious from the moment the teams were shown and allow the opponent to work on stopping it from the beginning of the match.
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