not point in using specs rotom if you arent goin to use volt switch. Js
i would say its equivalent to cb scizor not having uturn.
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np: OU Suspect Testing Round 5 - Sandstorm (Excadrill/Thundurus Banned)
- Thread starter JabbaTheGriffin
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i would say its equivalent to cb scizor not having uturn.
On a Rain team, I wouldn't mind going with both Volt Switch and Thunder. Using Thunder is like having an extra STAB and does a great deal more. The damage dealt via Volt Switch feels pitiful most of the time that I wouldn't mind if it was just U-Turn as it's just continuous momentum, and if I'm using Choice, the whole Ground walls you thing can cause more prediction mind games than necessary. :(
Am i the only one thinking Volcarona is rather broken ?
I mean it actually sets up on waters and all pretty much all its common, viable "counters" with the Chesto Rest set, lives basically all forms of common priority and its hard as fuck to revenge kill without Excadrill in sand or Scarf Terrakion. :\ Its getting to the point of just being "ugh" when i see one in team preview with some way to stop Stealth Rock. It reminds me of Blaziken in the way that it has like two counters/checks and everything else is just destroyed by it.
I mean it actually sets up on waters and all pretty much all its common, viable "counters" with the Chesto Rest set, lives basically all forms of common priority and its hard as fuck to revenge kill without Excadrill in sand or Scarf Terrakion. :\ Its getting to the point of just being "ugh" when i see one in team preview with some way to stop Stealth Rock. It reminds me of Blaziken in the way that it has like two counters/checks and everything else is just destroyed by it.
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I have been testing specially defensive Rotom-W and it's really fantastic when paired with a physically defensive Tangrowth.
I'm talking specifically about this set:
Rotom-W @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt / Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
It's really a champ at sponging even the nastiest Hydro Pumps, which the standard 112 HP Rotom struggles to do. You are welcome to add some speed and/or defense EVs if you want.
@ Sir Azelf: Volcarona isn't really broken because of its weakness to SR, Toxic Spikes, and horrible defensive typing in general. However, it has the potential to be destructive with the right support.
I'm talking specifically about this set:
Rotom-W @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt / Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
It's really a champ at sponging even the nastiest Hydro Pumps, which the standard 112 HP Rotom struggles to do. You are welcome to add some speed and/or defense EVs if you want.
@ Sir Azelf: Volcarona isn't really broken because of its weakness to SR, Toxic Spikes, and horrible defensive typing in general. However, it has the potential to be destructive with the right support.
Personally, Volcarona is extremely annoying. With Rapid Spin, it's not that hard to bring Volcarona in safely, especially when you can set up on pokemon such as CB Scizor. It can run Rest too to get rid of status and heal all of it's health, making it even more of a pain. Then there's Flame Body, which can cripple pokemon that try to kill it such as CB Dragonite. It's can set up on a ton of pokemon, such as Gliscor and some bulky waters such as Rotom-W. And once Volcarona gets even 1 Quiver Dance, it can be very hard to stop.
Volcarona's definitely a beast. It's not too hard to support it with a spinner and if it gets in at full health in the sun all it needs is one Quiver Dance to mess your day up. After two it's almost gg unless you get residual damage on it. But that being said, if you get hazards in, esp toxic spikes, then it's death fodder unless they have Rest.
Mmm, kind of. I'm not really sure what's stopping me from saying it is because I've been in the teambuilder for about half an hour thinking of a way to fit a counter in, before I decided to just say "ok, Blissey". There are a lot of theoretical "checks" and "X can counter it if it lacks ____." It just never seems to work out that way for me.
It's not broken, I was a bit suspicious when I used it on a Sun team but it's not broken. However from experience I can say that Blissey needs Toxic or neutral weather to touch it.
In the sun though, Volcarona w/ Rest can beat Blissey, especially if Blissey gets burned by Flame Body (and when you're spamming Seismic Toss, that's not hard to do). Quagsire can stop the boosts with unaware, but it's special defense sucks so much; LO Volcarona destroys it very easily, and if sun is up...GG Quagsire.
But things like ChestoRest Volcarona even use Blissey as setup bait. Really, when given the right support (doesn't seem too hard really, keep down rocks :/) Volcarona is like the hardest threat for me to deal with on every team. Lately the best check I've been able to come up with offensively is like Scarf Terrakion and that even gets worn down.
I'm not really trying to say it's broken at all because obviously anything 'given the right support' can be really good but I guess it's just like Volcarona's team support is really more clear-cut than anything else: keep down hazards and find one of its many opportunities to set up (ie Ferrothorn, Rotom-W while you're in Sun, idk there are tons) and then smash shit. Maybe it's just me but I've really been struggling with it in general lately.
Correct me if I didn't stress the Sun part. Volcarona is really good overall if you can handle hazards, but add Drought into the equation and it's just nasty. Facing Volcarona in the Sun makes me glad that Blaziken got banned.
Edit:Not trying to say it's broken, but give me one counter to it in the Sun. Because give me a Sun boosted STAB coming about 120 Base Sp Atk and I'll show you reasonable doubt in saying it's not broken. Not saying it's broken, but there is reasonable doubt.
Edit:Not trying to say it's broken, but give me one counter to it in the Sun. Because give me a Sun boosted STAB coming about 120 Base Sp Atk and I'll show you reasonable doubt in saying it's not broken. Not saying it's broken, but there is reasonable doubt.
Volcarona is held in check I think by sand's rock attacks from Ttar, Ex, Landorus, Terrakion, and stealth rock. If your team has no complete counter to volcarona, your only hope is pretty much stealth rock and phazing it's attempts to set up. I mean, it OHKO's my special wall at +1 with a neutral move. Just ridiculous. But variants that run Quiver Dance/Fiery Dance/Bug Buzz/Moonlight Rest are stopped by chandelure to some extent. FF absorbs the fire move and the x4 resist to bug is amazing, at +2 volcarona still 3HKO's Chandelure.
Also stuff like Terrakion can pretty much wall most of them. SpD Tran with either toxic or SR + roar will wall it too. Get hazards up too. If it or you are running sand then you should have no problem revenging it. It's not broken though.
If Volcarona is on a sun team...then it becomes so much more powerful. It screws over weatherless teams. It's rare, but the morning sun version is so difficult to take down when it has the right support. It can counter sweep Latias and Reniclus. And it can also pretty much set up on most special attackers. However this requires alot of support and of course having other weather dead. So if you have a sand team then just make sure ttar doesn't die.
If Volcarona is on a sun team...then it becomes so much more powerful. It screws over weatherless teams. It's rare, but the morning sun version is so difficult to take down when it has the right support. It can counter sweep Latias and Reniclus. And it can also pretty much set up on most special attackers. However this requires alot of support and of course having other weather dead. So if you have a sand team then just make sure ttar doesn't die.
The problem comes when you don't have sand. Volcarona is a complete monster, and if you're running a no weather team and you come across sun, then it's basically good game. Sand is the most common weather, but Volcarona can still do some major damage to sand, and if it gets 2 Quiver Dances (LO Offensive set) or 3 Quiver Dances (Rest set), it can outspeed Excadrill and basically sweep sand. Getting 2 Quiver Dances really isn't that hard, bring it in on something like a Ferrothorn and force your opponent to predict you. If they predict wrong, you will most likely be forced to lose at least one pokemon and/or get swept. The really annoying thing about Volcarona is, it beats almost every special wall not named Blissey / Chansey (which it beats in sun).
Someone has even used a Volcarona in rain against me. It learns Hurricane, so it can still destroy some pokemon, and hit common "counters" such as Dragonite very hard.
Someone has even used a Volcarona in rain against me. It learns Hurricane, so it can still destroy some pokemon, and hit common "counters" such as Dragonite very hard.
Doesn't Volcarona sometimes run HP ground specifically to deal with tran though?
edit: how viable could a volcarona running hurricane be, just to screw with rain teams
That's what I tried to say when Crew brought up Blissey. If you're not running your own weather then I'd like to offer my condolensces, cause your team is pretty much dead. If you can sack Ninetails (as "hard" as that is) and cancel Sun then all you need is SR and it's essentially dead anyway.
Edit:@Winston and Chandelures
If sun isn't running a flash fire pokemon, or after I've taken their ff poke out, 1 switch in on a predicted fire attack to chandelure and I sweep with their own weather against them. Only HP ground on volcarona can stop me. And in sun they probably run QD/Moonlight/FD/BB. In fact, thanks to the boosts provided to chandelure, and weather ball on another of my mons, I usually prefer fighting sun over any other weather (besides hail)
Yeah, that's what I said some time ago, if wasn't for all the "checks" that Volcarona have (sr and weather specially) that thing would be insta suspect, when I'm not running weather I always carry a scarf Terrakion just for it (or some random dd'er), and even with all those checks the combo Dugtrio + Volcarona is very deadly, Dugtrio can trap things like Tyranitar (if you have ninetales), scarf Terrakion trapped into stone edge, Tentacruel and most importantly Heatran, pretty much most things that can check and counter it
In that situation yes. However be wary of prediction based counters. I don't think that Chandelure's taking any boosted Hp Ground's from a Volcarona any time soon. And just a nitpick, I think you mean Morning Sun.
Yes, meant morning sun. But if it's volcarona on a sun team, that set is almost mandatory. And jellicent takes over 50% in sun from a ff boosted flamethrower, so he can't even switch in safely. Same goes for any other water types on the opponents sun team.
I don't know of many, more like any, Water types that can safely take fire attacks in the Sun, esp from Volcarona and chandelure. But Chandelure's problem is speed. It's very easy to outspeed it, unless it's scarfed which makes it easier to counter to some degree.
Yeah, I know all about his speed issues. I run scarf. And like I said, after killing their flash fire user, all I do is switch on a predictable fire attack and spam flamethrower. Sweep.
If that works for you then great. I'd rather not be choice-locked though. This metagame is often to fast to spam a single move and hope to win.
unless its CB haaxorus outrage tho. in tailwind.
but i think chandelure is kinda overrated.
what sun sweepers have been working for you guys?
i like venusaur but it needs set up to hit hard
sawsbuck too, and burn just kills him
i wanted to try victreebel, but way too weak (great growth mixed abuser tho)
i really wish a fire type got chlorophyll tho. fire/grss anyone?
oh and darmantian just hits like a TRUCK in the sun. i use scarf for obvious reasons and i still 2hko jellicent.
but i think chandelure is kinda overrated.
what sun sweepers have been working for you guys?
i like venusaur but it needs set up to hit hard
sawsbuck too, and burn just kills him
i wanted to try victreebel, but way too weak (great growth mixed abuser tho)
i really wish a fire type got chlorophyll tho. fire/grss anyone?
oh and darmantian just hits like a TRUCK in the sun. i use scarf for obvious reasons and i still 2hko jellicent.
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