Metagame np: PU Stage 3 - Monster House (mid-December Tier Shift)

[Gennie]

as someone who plays a decent amount of nu / watches some ru, i disagree with most of this list. a lot of these mons really aren't that good in nu / ru and suffer from competition, while power creep got to some of these. probably the biggest issue i have with this is basing it off completely different metagames; current swsh ru and swsh nu are nothing like their pre-dlc2 selves

to not make this post completely useless, here are some sets i've been having some fun with!


pyramids (Duraludon) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Flash Cannon
- Thunderbolt
- Dragon Pulse

nice speed tier + it's a dragon that can hit fairies for very good damage. steels are a bit annoying but the most common ones (steelvally and snowslash) lack recovery, while they still dislike taking a specs draco regardless. tsareena is a pretty good partner for it, bringing it in against stuff like weezing and vileplume and weakening steels.

Hi gum! I saw your set and I really saw the potential, but...just to make sure, I decided to run some damage calculations! Here's what I found:

(Keep in mind that for these EVs, I'm using your set vs sets that are often run for the Pokemon on Smogon)

1: Shuckle, the mon with the highest Special Defense in the PU tier gets taken down in a quick 2HKO. ( 252 SpA Choice Specs Duraludon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Shuckle: 176-210 (72.1 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO ) So when it comes to pokemon like Cryogonal and Carbink, need I say more?

2: Dusknoir, the mon with the highest Special Defense that Duraludon isn't super effective against. And after running these calculations, I found this is a pokemon you might have trouble with in the future. Anyways, since Dusknoir runs two different items, I'm just going to show the calcs.

First up, we have AV Dusknoir.

252 SpA Choice Specs Duraludon Flash Cannon vs. 212 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Dusknoir: 96-114 (33.8 - 40.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Duraludon Dragon Pulse vs. 212 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Dusknoir: 102-121 (35.9 - 42.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Duraludon Draco Meteor over 3 turns vs. 212 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Dusknoir: 284-339 (100 - 119.3%) -- guaranteed KO in 3 turns

All these moves will be 3HKOs, while Dusknoir...

252+ Atk Dusknoir Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Duraludon: 178-210 (63.3 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

That's definitively something you'll want to watch out for.

Next we have Banded Dusknoir...

If it's using this item, your special attacks now 2HKO. However, we also have to take into account the damage it will deal back.

252+ Atk Choice Band Dusknoir Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Duraludon: 266-314 (94.6 - 111.7%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

Dusknoir is a pokemon that you'll have to watch out for due to its Specially Defensive capabilities as well as its strong offense. However, overall, I really appreciate this set for Duraludon and I see a lot of potential for it in the PU metagame. Well done!

 

[Ktütverde]

as someone who plays a decent amount of nu / watches some ru, i disagree with most of this list. a lot of these mons really aren't that good in nu / ru and suffer from competition, while power creep got to some of these. probably the biggest issue i have with this is basing it off completely different metagames; current swsh ru and swsh nu are nothing like their pre-dlc2 selves

to not make this post completely useless, here are some sets i've been having some fun with!


pyramids (Duraludon) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Flash Cannon
- Thunderbolt
- Dragon Pulse

nice speed tier + it's a dragon that can hit fairies for very good damage. steels are a bit annoying but the most common ones (steelvally and snowslash) lack recovery, while they still dislike taking a specs draco regardless. tsareena is a pretty good partner for it, bringing it in against stuff like weezing and vileplume and weakening steels.



buzzcut season (Whimsicott) @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Moonblast
- Hurricane

subleech whimsicott is a pretty fun set if they're not using a talonflame. having a priority leech seed and sub is always nice when facing stuff like arctovish under hail for example, or sun teams. hurricane might seem like an odd choice, but hitting grass-types is really nice for it. i've been using along weezing to set tspikes, which makes it even more of an annoyance.



butterfly (Ribombee) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Shield Dust
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sticky Web
- Moonblast
- Psychic / Bug Buzz
- U-turn

this mon is actually really good, having an excellent speed tier (still slower than t*lonflame tho) + good typing make it really good at revenge killing stuff like heliolisk and virizion, while also being a huge annoyance thanks to webs and u-turn. speaking of which, webs are really good right now due to the tier's abundance of mid-speed breakers like sirfetch'd and magmortar that are much harder to revenge kill with webs up. definitely a good and cute mon, try it out!

thanks for reading!!

I said " If you know a bit about higher tiers and oldgens, you know this stuff is very strong in either NU or RU. " which implied these mons are very strong in either SMNU or SMRU, not the current ones, but that wasn't very clear. I edited the post yesterday by adding "SM" everywhere but i forgot to do it here. My bad. I edited it and added "SM", thanks!

edit:
What I meant by "based on my knowledge of preDLC2 RU and NU" is this: for example machamp and roserade were too strong for RU (were UU) at some point before DLC2, so it is fairly obvious that even though they arent UU material anymore, they are definitely going to be solid in either RU or NU.

Apologizes again for how I formulated that part.

 

[OvertoneSeries]

I've been playing a little bit of the tier (mostly using stall, sorry), and Raichu-Alola feels like something of a problem; Obviously, it's very reliant on Pincurchin to set up its terrain, but even then, its ability to roll through teams feels a little much; my team had immunities to both STABs, and a specially defensive Grass type, but it still ended up being a problem. I did some thinking, and came to the conclusion that Raichu-Alola is a way too much for the tier.

Here's the set I'm going to use for reference. I think Magnet over Life Orb is probably better to keep its HP at full and make its Rising Voltages hit even harder, but Life Orb gets a few more kills with Psychic and Grass Knot, so that may also be worth using. The speed puts it faster than scarf Boltund after terrain, but that's probably not even necessary; the rest is put in HP.

Raichu-Alola @ Magnet
Ability: Surge Surfer
EVs: 152 HP / 252 SpA / 104 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Rising Voltage
- Psychic
- Grass Knot

Electric immunities in the tier often lack the special bulk to come in on its Psychic, or take too much from Grass Knot (or both) to be reliable answers.

Electric Immunities vs Coverage

+2 252+ SpA Raichu-Alola Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Claydol: 246-290 (75.9 - 89.5%)

+2 252+ SpA Raichu-Alola Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dugtrio-Alola: 205-242 (97.1 - 114.6%)
+2 252+ SpA Raichu-Alola Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dugtrio-Alola: 173-204 (81.9 - 96.6%)

+2 252+ SpA Raichu-Alola Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Golurk: 556-656 (145.5 - 171.7%)
+2 252+ SpA Raichu-Alola Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Golurk: 313-369 (81.9 - 96.5%)

+2 252+ SpA Raichu-Alola Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Piloswine: 310-366 (76.7 - 90.5%)
+2 252+ SpA Raichu-Alola Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Piloswine: 261-307 (64.6 - 75.9%)

+2 252+ SpA Raichu-Alola Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Palossand: 582-686 (155.6 - 183.4%)
+2 252+ SpA Raichu-Alola Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Palossand: 328-387 (87.7 - 103.4%)

252+ SpA Raichu-Alola Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Unaware Quagsire: 436-516 (110.6 - 130.9%)

+2 252+ SpA Raichu-Alola Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Rhydon: 324-382 (92.3 - 108.8%)
+2 252+ SpA Raichu-Alola Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Rhydon: 960-1132 (273.5 - 322.5%)

+2 252+ SpA Raichu-Alola Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Runerigus: 214-254 (66.8 - 79.3%)

Same goes for (very few) defensive dark types who can come in on Psychic:

Dark types vs Rising Voltage

+2 252+ SpA Magnet Raichu-Alola Rising Voltage (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Guzzlord in Electric Terrain: 329-387 (50.6 - 59.5%)

+2 252+ SpA Magnet Raichu-Alola Rising Voltage (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Scrafty in Electric Terrain: 411-484 (123 - 144.9%)

Appletun and Eldegoss both seem like solid checks, being electric resists with good special bulk that aren't weak to its coverage, but they get 2HKO'd all the same:

Bulky resists

+2 252+ SpA Raichu-Alola Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Appletun: 216-255 (50.9 - 60.1%)

+2 252+ SpA Magnet Raichu-Alola Rising Voltage (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eldegoss in Electric Terrain: 199-235 (61.4 - 72.5%)
+2 252+ SpA Raichu-Alola Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eldegoss: 165-195 (50.9 - 60.1%)

The answer may seem to be to sack and hit back with something that can live a hit, or come in an immunity for one of these pokemon. But even with its pathetic physical bulk, many defensive checks that can live any hit lack the ability to OHKO it, or even to come close:

Raichu's Special Bulk

(non-specs)
252+ SpA Appletun Apple Acid vs. 152 HP / 0 SpD Raichu-Alola: 136-162 (45.4 - 54.1%)
(non-EQ)
4 SpA Claydol Earth Power vs. 152 HP / 0 SpD Raichu-Alola: 168-198 (56.1 - 66.2%)

0 SpA Eldegoss Giga Drain vs. 152 HP / 0 SpD Raichu-Alola: 76-91 (25.4 - 30.4%)

Considering all of this, the most reliable defensive answers are probably Claydol (with EQ), Spdef Guzzlord, Spdef Runerigus, and Piloswine, but all of these can be dealt with if the Raichu-A predicts right, and are liable to being chipped down. To be truly safe, a sack is basically required, and nothing is stopping the Raichu from switching out and coming back to sweep later.

This is coupled with its ridiculous terrain-boosted speed that makes it impossible to naturally revenge kill without priority, and its resistance to common priority like Hitmontop's Mach Punch and Machamp's Bullet Punch. Priority users that can hit it are also fairly rare; the only common ones are Sirfetch'd's First Impression, Gourgeist's Shadow Sneak, and Absol's Sucker Punch. Even if terrain wears off, its speed tier is still very good.

The other answer is to stop it from setting up, and that's hardly the easiest thing considering that Rising Voltage still hits hard without the Nasty Plot boost. The ground types that can come in on it without taking too much will often get punished by its partner in crime Pincurchin, who can threaten Scald burns and Memento drops that prevent OHKOs, and set spikes to chip down these checks for later.

I think this pokemon is probably the most broken thing in PU right now; it forces teams to run one of a small handful of defensive checks or revenge killers, and has plenty of tools to break through them, its counterplay is inconsistent and very prediction-reliant, and the few checks it has can easily be lured and abused by its partner Pincurchin.

 

[TONE]

Posting some sets of my own that I've tried out, yes I actually got time for other mons not named Clawitzer lol.


Duraludon @ Leftovers
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 252 Def / 28 SpA / 228 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Iron Defense
- Body Press
- Flash Cannon
- Thunderbolt / Substitute

Like gum, I also tried out Duraludon just because it looks like a fun versatile mon with lots of potential like a lot of things in this wild metagame. Unlike gum's Choice Specs set, I decided to say, "If you're walled by steels, take them out yourself" which is what this set is designed to do with the combination of Iron Defense and Body Press. Flash Cannon for Fairies and Thunderbolt hits mainly stuff like Qwilfish, Jellicent, stuff like that. If your team can handle those mons, Substitute isn't a bad alternative since it create opportunities to get one up on Fairies like Aromatisse or even passive Pokemon like Weezing. The current EV spread maximizes Body Press damage output while still outspeeding TImid base 70s like Magneton so you can OHKO with Body Press after an Iron Defense. If running Substitute, a bulkier EV spread of 252 HP / 40 Def / 200 SpD / 16 Spe Bold nature can be used. HP + SpDef prevents sub from being broken by Weezing's Flamethrower and Vaporeon's Scald while still outspeeding Adamant Machamp to Iron Defense before it can Close Combat allowing you to live the hit or knock it out with Body Press after the defense drop and burn damage.


Druddigon @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 236 HP / 252 Atk / 20 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Fire Punch / Earthquake
- Gunk Shot
- Sucker Punch

Kinda a classic set from back in ORAS RU, but having an offensive tank like AV Druddigon was really really good. Won't catch on quick anytime soon, but is helpful for taking on certain pokemon like Magmortar and Charizard and getting off heavy damage with Dragon Claw. Fire Punch for Steel-types, EQ helps against Steels as well as doing stuff like Coalossal and Magmortar in as well as Poison-types like Garbodor without making contact, Gunk SHot for Fairies and Sucker Punch for priority. Speed is enough for uninvested based 50s like Vileplume allowing Druddigon to 2HKO it with FIre Punch if it switches in expecting Dragon Claw.


Clawitzer (M) @ Life Orb / Choice Specs
Ability: Mega Launcher
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid / Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Dark Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Aura Sphere / Terrain Pulse / U-turn

Sorry, you really thought I wasn't gonna say anything about Clawitzer in my post? Oh, you were expecting it? Well let me not keep you people waiting. FIrst I wanna go on the record to say that yes, Clawitzer is a fantastic breaker of defensive cores, but the tier has enough checks for keep Clawitzer at bay, Exploud is far more annoying than this tbh, but as a special wallbreaker, it gets the job done and has all the necessary tools to function as such. Only real tossup is the last move. I've hardly clicked Aura Sphere in testing, but it does get Mega Launcher boosted Terrain Pulse to abuse when paired with Pincurchin, Thwackey, or Indeedee-F, all 3 hits Poliwrath super effectively so added bonus. U-turn is really only for Choice sets cause momentum is stupid good to have in general. Timid to outspeed stuff like Aurorus, Modest for more power, your choice.

That's all for now, thanks for reading everyone.

 

[spatula]

Hi, I've been playing a lot of PU recently and have been enjoying the meta a lot. I have zero idea what is good or what isn't, but I have experimented with like half of the drops so far. I figured I'd highlight some of the mons I have enjoyed using. Feel free to flame me if these mons are actually bad, but I'm currently testing stuff in the new meta so I'm not too concerned with what is actually good or not since it's a completely new meta.


Weezing @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 132 Def / 124 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic Spikes
- Will-O-Wisp
- Sludge Bomb
- Pain Split

Great fighting resist for bulky offense/balance teams. I paired it with aromatisse for wish support, but I think it can work without it. Tanks hits like a beast, difficult to 1v1 due to wisp, and can attempt to force progress vs certain teams with tspikes. You can try taunt or something over it tspikes maybe. Its movepool is pretty good.


Scrafty @ Leftovers
Ability: Shed Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Knock Off
- Drain Punch
- Rest

Surprisingly decent ghost resist + okay wincon. Obviously aromatisse sucks for this mon, but at least you can be useful by knocking it off and keeping it for its useful defensive qualities. Shed skin is great for games where status can cut into your team's longevity.


Ribombee @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Shield Dust
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Moonblast
- Bug Buzz
- Roost

Great wincon and can revenge some things even when unboosted. After a qd it's very difficult to deal with. Some fairy resists like garbodor/weezing are physically defensive so you don't need to chip them thaaaat much for +1 to kill. Resists grassy glide/sucker punch which is nice for being able to sweep. Not sure about roost as the last move but it's nice to be out of priority range or be able to get some more boosts.


Magneton @ Choice Specs
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Tri Attack

Good breaker. Stab combo is very difficult for some teams to deal with because their ground type does not resist steel. Can always volt on resists like togedemaru or whatever (I paired with gallade to take advantage of normal switchins). Good defensive typing makes up for bad bulk and gives it some good opportunities to switch in.

Overall, really enjoying the metagame! Interesting to see what everyone has been trying. Please post what you have found success with or what has been underwhelming, as I'm always interested in seeing what new mons I can try to fit on my teams.

 

[HJAD]

Council Minutes​

Meta Discussion:

• Well, what did you expect 99 new Pokemon would do to a tier? It is no secret that a lot of things council members pushed for in the previous metas (such as banning silvallys, thievul, and other friends) are no longer applicable in a tier which bears little resemblance to what preceded it. Instead, the council is looking to the future. The meta at the moment harbours a seemingly endless list of threats that are (very) broken, but with a lot of them set to leave the tier in the rises/drops on January 1st, we have decided that its the best to use the next couple of weeks to see which of the threats that have dropped are particularly stupid. If those Pokemon remain in the tier after the rises/drops, and do not gain sufficient counterplay, they will be a part of a quickban slate which will take place very soon after the drops. No bans will take place until the January quickvote.
• The council has already started compiling a list of broken which already seem out of place. Some common Pokemon that council members across the board think are broken are Machamp , Kingdra , Sirfetch'd , Exploud , Sigilyph , and Indeedee-F . It should also be noted that these Pokemon are entirely expected to leave the tier regardless due to rises and usage from other tiers, and is still underdevelopment, so other Pokemon are expected to be added. As well as a clearly broken list, most council members are developing a list of Pokemon which are borderline broken, but much more likely to stay in the tier. This includes threats like Archeops , Tauros and Virizion which, despite being largely overshadowed at the moment, does not take a lot of imagination for them to suddenly start being a bad influence on the tier.
• So, my question to you guys as the PU community, what Pokemon would you include in either list? Is there something I haven't mentioned which you would say needs to go in the January quickvote at all costs, and what dark horses are there in the tier that you think need to go but are likely to stay? Bonus points for convincing arguments and REPLAYS!!

VR and Other Votes:

• The Council did decide to unban all PUBL Pokemon, which in combination with the drops, leads to 99 new Pokemon added to PU. Therefore, it would seem logical to unban some abilities such as Drizzle. The council thought that the best thing for the tier is to not unban this ability. It is clear that, in a meta as fresh as this, the development of the tier needs to be prioritised. Rain tends to be a very archetypal team which doesn't change that much over time, and for this reason, as well as a host of extremely threatening new toys, we decided that unbanning Drizzle would just add to the bedlam caused already. It should be noted that Drought has already been banned from NU.

Forum Happenings:

• As mentioned previously (and in other council minutes), the normal January 1st shift will happen and after that the plan is to return to the traditional 3-month tiering system with quick shifts February and March and the next full shift in April.
• PUWC FINALS: Northeast + Canada vs US Midwest is currently going on featuring the brand new SS PU metagame. Be sure to check in on the series over here.
• LTPL WEEK 1: Be sure to check out the Lower Tier Premier League, which has just started. This also features the brand new SS PU meta. Check it out here.
• ManOfMany has joined the PU council. Great to have a long time contributor to PU onboard!
• DROPS: Of course, We've talked about this extensively already. PU received 68 drops recently in the Mid December tiershift. We also decided to unban all 31 Pokemon in PUBL.

 

[PlusC]

I think the Unburden bros (Sceptile and Hitmonler) need to be considered, especially Sceptile. He doesn't even need to run speed so can have the bulk to easily set up Swords Dance and has pretty much perfect, strong coverage with Leaf Blade, boosted Acrobatics and Brick Break. Maybe with Electric Terrain instead of Psychic Terrain he'll be more manageable, but he's still stupidly hard to stop.

Hitmonlee isn't quite as poweful, largely due to lacking Swords Dance (Bulk up is an option if you like) and he doesn't actually need Terrain thanks to Normal Gem + Fake Out or Close Combat + White Herb. But has STAB Close Combat and a highet attack stat.

The only other potentially broken mon you've not mentioned is Raichu A. With Electric terrain, Nasty Plot and Rising Voltage he just demolises the whole tier. However he's held back by the fact that Pincurchin is completely awful and it's kind of easy to stall out the terrain.

 

[iceblazer]

Here are my thoughts:

is very much a threat in the current meta, not much can switch into Guts boosted CC or SE, and the few that can get fucked over by knock off or poison jab. And that’s not even counting No Guard sets that combine perfect accuracy with Dynamic Punches and SEs with if you (for some reason) don’t like Guts sets. If this thing somehow doesn’t rise next month, then I’m all for a ban.

is also in the same boat as but it just may be worse because it can run more sets than the hunk of muscle. Specs, Rain Sweeper, DD... hell, it can even run CB sets with Iron Head just fine as well. Also please consider Sub DD as well Yeah, this thing has gotta go, one way or the other, so ban.

(for the love of god stop deleting the sprite you fucking bird) I’m still on the fence about this. All my previous arguments from my last post here still apply, but for some reason I haven’t seen many of this mon in the ladder recently. I guess I’m leaning toward no ban for now, but I think I’ll change my opinion when I see more of this thing in action.

is something I really, really, don’t want here. I’m a tad bit biased toward it, but Specs Boomburst rips through anything not named SpDef Giga or Carbink, and they get screwed over by Surf. Offensive counterplay definitely exists, but there’s nearly none for defensive. Ban, no doubt.

is a mon that I enjoy using but sadly, I think it may be a bit much for PU to handle. Specs Air Slash or Psychic does enough damage that you won’t need any coverage most of the time, and then there’s Wave and whatever else you want on it. Tinted Lens makes sure that any resists take heavy damage from it, so that you won’t go easy on it. And that’s just the Specs set, you still have stuff like Cosmic and Stored Power + Roost or LO Magic Guard... It pains me to say this, but I agree on a ban.

Yep, sorry but I’m not buying this mon. Scarf sets make sure that you outspeed the majority of the meta and other scarfers (aka pass and dura) and specs hit like a truck. And Psychic Terrain also prevents Sucker Punch and boosts other Psychics like Sigi and Mesprit. Ban.

I haven’t seen much of these three to garner an opinion on them, but keeping an eye on them is mandatory. Tauros has been doing the same thing it always has being Sheer Force LO shenanigans, Viriz has good enough speed and bulk to set up, and Archeops doesn’t have to fear rocks any more (thanks HDB!) and is in general an unpredictable mon thanks to its many sets.

On another note, could we watch out for and ? Both are strong as hell scarf users that can use band just as well to break through walls.

That’s all I have to say for now. Ciao!

 

[PlusC]

Whilst Exploud absolutely deserves to be banned I will point out that we have several Soundproof pokemon to help check it in the mean time Mr Mime and Bouffalant being the standouts in my eyes.


If you like to meme, you can go with Soundproof Exploud himself, we don't have that many Ghosts

 

[Deleted User 350996]

Hi everyone. Imo there is another mon potentially banworthy later or sooner which is
Here the set I'm using:

@ Leftovers
Ability: Slow Start
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Body Slam
- Knock Off / Power-up Punch / Toxic
- Substitute
- Protect

I'm pretty sure someone has already talked about it before in the topic and I'm a little surprised this mon is not so popular, so I'd like to give my opinion on this. As you know, Regigigas gained Protect / Substitute this gen, which, Combined with T-Spikes, works even better and pressure the opponent.
328 speed is a good speedtier (and excellent under web) to outspeed an important portion of the mons we have, most notably any and non-scarfed Fighting mons except , and even halfed speed is enough to take advantage of most of defensive mons; you can Sub on them, predicting Toxic / weak Knock Off / etc. then spamming Protect / Sub again and the beat goes on.
The loss of Frustration/Return is sad but it still learns Body Slam or Facade. 4th move could be Knock Off or Power-Up Punch for extra coverage.
Fortunately we have enough counterplay now: plethora of Fighting mons, bulky Ghost ones etc. but with potential rises could be more threatening.

 

[Gekokeso]

Not a PU expert but i would give out my thoughts

is very spooky, both choice band and guts sets do crazy damage, as well as sometimes running assault vest. It has somes counters such as phys def Aromatisse (bless this mon, best fighting check in the tier) but it mostly just crushes teams without specific counters and can cripple some of them with knock or dynamic punch if using a no guard set. Maybe ban.

As many people have stated out before this mon has way too much set variety and a lot of them are opressive. Special mention goes to swift swim sweeper, which although requires much team support with manual setters like liepard, has no switch ins on rain. Maybe ban.

:sirfetch: I don't see why this thing getiing locked into a move makes it any bad. Scrappy CCdoes a ton to even its strongest counters. It just hits so much in the tier and its coverage is also very deadly. I understand that right now it ain't being used much but it still is sort of absurd. Ban.

Big screaming man way too scary pls ban :c. Jokes aside this guy just does too much damage for the tier to handle, as a large amount of its checks such as sdef regirock and giga have zero reliable recovery and can be easily chipped or used for the tier's many fighting types to come in, which opens up for exploud to crush anything in sight. Ban, pls :c

This thing gets to set up pretty freely against a lot of the things that are used to counters others treats such as audino or aromatisse, and once it sets up once you are required to haze it as fast as possible. By far its most oprresive set is the flame orb psycho shift set, which cripples the few things that can OHKO it. Definitely ban.

Get this thing out as soon as possible. You see, unlike most of the mons in the banlist which might require some team support tobe extremely threating such asand, this thing is both a nuke and a great team supporter. Pretty much every fast sweeper LOVES the ability to ignore priority and unburden sweepers in hitmonlee and sceptile can crush most of indeedee's checks. Other reason is Expanding Force, enough said. Absolutely Ban.

I haven’t seen much of tauros but i can speak for virizion and archeops. Im surprised people find chops broken cause i usually find it as laughingly bad. Its heavy duty sets lack damage and at most it can only uturn out of problems. Virizion, however, is largely a sleeper threat. It is very deciptibly bulky, granting it numerous times to set up or sub. Once scarfers are remove this thing can become very scary thanks to its great speed tier and incredible coverage. Could definitely see it get banned in the future.

Lastly, i want to talk of you about a mon in specific: This thing is an incredible support mon. WIth boots and regenerator it can cripple entire teams, heal every single member of your team and never die thanks to broken regen. Im not the best player in the world but here are some tournament replays of audino in action:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pu-1246153083 Audino clutches win against MZ
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pu-1246159359 Audino goes HARD in tournament finals

 

[BulbaBrain]

Im surprised people find chops broken cause i usually find it as laughingly bad. Its heavy duty sets lack damage and at most it can only uturn out of problems.

Excuse me what? Archeops has a decent movepool and its not 'laughingly bad'. Base 140 Attack doesn't lack damage without choice as I'm sure most of you are aware. And the fact that it can u-turn out of tough situations is exactly what makes it so threatening. Getting chip damage on opposing counters and gaining momentum to potentially beat said Archeops counter, which there are not many of because of its diverse movepool and plethora of viable sets (which I will list down below), is definitely something that could potentially be very unhealthy for the tier given its already very good speed tier.

List of viable sets: https://pokepast.es/dccfcd7f2d21d916

Just to clear this up, I'm arguing that it is certainly not 'laughingly bad', but I'm not saying that this thing is broken and should 100% be banned. No. This is just something we need to keep our eye out for as it potentially could be broken sometime down the line.

Peace out. :)

edit regarding the pokepaste: you can run Adamant nature on Choice Scarf

 

[termi]

The meta currently isn't as bonkers as I initially expected, trending more towards balanced playstyles and less towards stupid cheese strats than I presumed. Although I can't say I'm in love with the meta yet, it has been somewhat playable thanks to this, and I'd like to use this post as an opportunity to discuss a few mons and sets that have kept things somewhat fun for me while we're trying to figure out what's broken and what's fine. Before I head into that though, I decided to list all Pokemon that I deem particularly broken and would vote ban on if we were to hold a vote right now. Maybe it will spark some more discussion ahead of the first vote which will probably take place pretty soon after the next tier shift! (Also, this hardly needs to be said but I only represent myself here, not the council as a whole)

the brokens

: Probably the most obviously broken mon of all the obviously broken mons, Indeedee is an incredible offensive mon that also somehow manages to double as some of the best team support an offensive team could ask for. Indeedee + Unburden sweeper builds have probably been the most consistent type of build in this meta, and for a good reason. Unlike other Terrain builds, which have to rely on shaky mons like Thwackey and Pincurchin, the Indeedee + Unburden sweeper core doesn't require that you go hyperoffensive or otherwise force you into uncomfortable building patterns, because you don't have to stack any weaknesses and your Terrain setter also happens to provide a shitton of utility by being a fantastic breaker and/or revenge killer with Healing Wish as the cherry on top. To make matters even worse, Psychic Terrain also blocks would-be offensive counterplay to something like Unburden Sceptile by negating priority moves like First Impression and Ice Shard. Pretty ridiculous as a standalone mon, completely busted once you factor in Psychic Seed sweepers.

: On the topic of broken Psychic-types, this thing. I could say a lot about this thing but honestly I haven't seen a single serious argument that it isn't broken so why bother. Its coverage is incredible, its speed tier is great, Magic Guard is a broken ability, and anyone who has seen what this thing did to pre-DLC RU with CM + Flame Orb Psycho Shift sets knows that it's just the absolute worst to deal with. A very easy ban.

: Guts Flame Orb sets are incredible, basically completely lacking counters. Even something like Colbur Berry Palossand is shaky as counterplay, since after burning its Colbur Berry, Knock 2HKOs with just a bit of prior chip. Much like the other breakers I will discuss in this section, Machamp doesn't find it too hard to find opportunity to get in and get shit done either, given that VoltTurn and Webs and the prevalence of exploitable Rock types give Machamp plenty of opportunity to mash buttons. When you factor in that it doesn't need to lock itself into a move, unlike other no-counters-on-paper breakers like CB Golurk, it becomes easy to see why this thing needs to go.

Getting the other broken Fighter out of the way, let's talk about duck. It has 135 Attack, Scrappy CC, strong priority, coverage for just about anything, and not even that bad of a speed tier. Scrappy is the main thing that pushes it over the edge: not being able to rely on a Ghost type to at least somewhat check it makes it incredibly easy for this thing to just spam its STAB at barely any cost, since only a handful of Pokemon can eat more than 1 CC. It gets to a point where only particularly bulky resists like Weezing and Aromatisse are sufficient counterplay, and even these aren't entirely safe. Super restrictive mon in the builder and a terror to play against no matter what, pretty clearly busted.

: Segueing into the other problematic Scrappy user, Exploud is broken for basically the same reasons as Sirfetch'd. Although it lacks priority, Exploud makes up for it by having an even easier to click STAB move in Boomburst, which hits nearly all of its "checks" hard enough to be a 3HKO - and it can simply OHKO or 2HKO them by clicking the right coverage move if necessary. Nevertheless I think this thing would be sorta manageable if its checks had recovery, but unlike Sirfetch'd checks like Weezing and Aromatisse, nothing that can come in on Boomburst has recovery beyond lefties, if that. As a result, with proper VoltTurn or Sticky Web support, Exploud finds it very easy to tear holes in any team without a Gigalith, to the point where it is another one of those things that massively stifles teambuilding.

: Kingdra has been something of a terror to fat teams in lower tiers ever since it could get a 100% crit rate with Scope Lens + Focus Energy, and it might've already been too much to deal with if it were for that set with Draco Meteor/Surf/Agility alone, but somehow this gen it only got crazier thanks to the addition of Scale Shot. Not only does this mean it can now viably run physical CritDra sets, but because its Dragon STAB boosts its speed it can afford to forgo Agility in the last slot for Substitute to ease setup vs fat mons or Dragon Dance to further increase its power and speed at the same time. To wit, the main ways one could play around this (bar revenge killing it before it gets an Agility up, already a tough feat given how its natural bulk is solid and it lacks exploitable weaknesses) is to run one of two mons that resist its dual STAB - Whimsicott and Ferroseed, the latter of which might lose if Kingdra rocks Sub - or to switch in one of a handful of faster Fairies that can eat an unboosted Hydro Pump/Waterfall if need be. This is already a pretty suffocating situation, and things get worse still when you consider that its great dual STAB and solid speed tier make it a very good user of Specs/Scarf as well. Between the already small pool of mons that can deal with this mon and its unpredictability, I don't think PU has the tools to deal with this - and that is without even getting into the fact that Rain or Screens support can make it that much more menacing still.

: This thing is way too much to handle for PU in its current state. A decently fast, very powerful Dragon type that laughs at Fairy types is not something you want in a tier where the best bulky Steel types are like, Silvally-Steel and Stunfisk-G. Even if it could only viably run Choice sets and SR sets it'd probably be too much, but it gets even crazier when you consider it can run stuff like Iron Defense + Body Press to circumvent those Steel types. Much like Kingdra, you can't reasonably prepare for this thing.

In addition to these there are some things that I think might be broken but I'm not 100% sure on and probably wouldn't ban yet for the sake of prudence, however I am open to being convinced otherwise:

Now, onto fun stuff:

: This thing is incredibly slept on, I've barely seen any of these outside of the team I've been running with it but it's kinda amazing? Body Slam + Throat Chop (Sheer Force boosted for no reason!!) + CC 2HKOs the majority of the tier, which is pretty impressive for a mon with a speed tier this amazing. The amazing coverage you achieve with these 3 moves also means that your last slot can just be whatever the hell you want: Zen Headbutt to OHKO Virizion and 2HKO Weezing, Iron Head to 2HKO Aromatisse, Earthquake as a good midground move that avoids Rocky Helmet and Aftermath chip from certain mons, even something like Fire Blast can be used to 2HKO Tangela if that catches on again. I'm inclined to say this thing is broken, but there may be a small chance that stuff like bulky Ghosts, bulky Rock types (particularly Regirock), and miscellaneous walls like Vaporeon can sorta keep this thing at bay. That being said, atm it's really hard to prep for this thing what with all the other broken threats running around.

BULL

Tauros (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Body Slam
- Close Combat
- Throat Chop
- Zen Headbutt / Iron Head / Earthquake / etc

: I've been loving Vikavolt, builds utilizing this mon have been some of the most consistent in this meta in my experience. Having a slow pivot and webs support is amazing for the crazy breakers currently residing in PU, and Vikavolt can provide both, but its utility doesn't even end there. Its typing with Levitate is great in this meta, providing teams with a Ground immunity and Fighting resist that also functions as one of the best stops to the incredibly dangerous SD Sceptile. I've been using a particular spread that allows it to eat 2 CCs from Adamant CB Sirfetch'd and heal the damage off with Roost, while still keeping enough speed to outspeed uninvested base 50s as well as everything up to max speed neutral nature base 55s if webs are up and enough power to make the bug a threat to reckon with:

bulky bug

Vikavolt @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 172 Def / 16 SpA / 72 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Bug Buzz
- Volt Switch
- Sticky Web / Energy Ball
- Roost

: I mentioned this mon earlier in my post but CB Golurk has practically no counters if you play it right, it only being balanced by the fact that you can play around it a bit by utilizing immunities to its STAB moves. Incredibly fun set to play with since it always makes progress if you click the right buttons and doesn't find it too hard to find room to come in in a meta where bulky Rock types like Regirock and Gigalith give it plenty of room to switch in. Beyond that, I've also enjoyed SR sets with Klutz and Trick: even without CB or coverage moves it has very few switchins, often forcing in passive walls that absolutely hate having their lefties or boots traded for items like AV or Sticky Barb. If it doesn't move up to NU soon, it'll be interesting to see how Golurk operates in the meta and how the meta adapts to it - maybe we'll see more itemless mons again to deal with Poltergeist?

klutzy trickster

Golurk @ Assault Vest / Sticky Barb / Choice Scarf / Toxic Orb / etc
Ability: Klutz
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Poltergeist
- Earthquake
- Trick

: I could go on and on about all the new things we got, but I will cap it off here and talk about an old face most people probably have forgotten by now. Persian-A might seem like a strange thing to run in this meta, but I found myself needing a particular set of benefits it brings, namely a Dark type (very useful typing to have in Indeedee meta) with enough bulk to eat random hits from things like LO Tauros and CB Golurk and enough Speed to serve as a fast pivot. I actually ran Choice Scarf in my LTPL game this week (also seen in Bouff's PUWC game), because between the extra speed allowing you to chunk stuff like Kingdra after a speed boost and Switcheroo allowing you to emergency check random setup sweepers like Sigilyph, it's kind of a catch-all sweep stopper. Very useful in a meta with too many threats to check, give it a try!

scarf cat

Persian-Alola @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Foul Play
- Toxic / Knock Off
- Switcheroo
- Parting Shot

 

[Pabloaram]

Throat Chop (Sheer Force boosted for no reason!!)

The "block sound moves from opponent" count as secondary effect like flinch or paralysis chance

Persian-A is great as a pivot with heavy dutty boots also bc he soft check most physical attackers tranks to Fur Coat + Foul Play also annoys walls with taunt + knock off + toxic

 

[Chloe]

Hello friends, I got bored and started writing so here I am.

Should Definitely Go!

Very little defensive counterplay, stupid as fuck mon I can't wait until this dumbass obnoxious boombox monkey thing is deleted from the tier, because I'm sick of running Gigalith on every team just to have a favourable matchup. Specs Scrappy Boomburst is way too strong in a metagame where its only checks are Rock-types, most of which get 2HKOd by coverage (Hydro/Focus/Surf). There's no reason for this to remain.

Another Pokemon with depressingly mediocre counterplay, Scrappy Close Combat, very very good coverage and an apt priority move in First Impression. I want to stomp on it. It's so restricting, on one hand at least it has a few answers unlike Exploud, but then you consider how strong CB First Impression is, how it 2HKOs Aromatisse and wittles down Weezing every time it comes in. It's just not pleasant to play against, the metagame will be substantially better off once this is gone.

I look at the list of reliable counterplay this has, it really has none. It has so many options, there's CritDra which breaks through teams with ease, there's rain sets, there's physical variants. CritDra alone is too difficult to play against, it can run Agility which eliminates most offensive counterplay, or alternatively Substitute to get around Ferroseed or Ice Beam to beat Whimsicott switchins. It's too powerful for this tier. Go back to the coral reef you dumb seahorse nobody loves you

Alone, offensively, it's a behemoth that uses Expanding Force to get through everything in the tier. Defensive counterplay? You could run a Dark-type that gets 2HKOd by Dazzling Gleam. Surely a Steel-type would be useful if any existed in this tier. Silvally-Steel is a decent answer, so is Stunfisk-Galar, so is Togedemaru if you're still stuck up on that, but you shouldn't be forced into running these Pokemon just to check this one Pokemon.Then you consider what it does for Unburden abuse, Hitmonlee and Sceptile are both incredibly potent in the current metagame and Indeedee-F is by far the best terrain setter we have to enable them. Psychic Terrain disabling priority to hit the sweepers its enabling is also obnoxious as hell. This Pokemon needs to go ASAP.

I wish Machamp would strangle me. That being said, it's too much for this tier!!! Guts Flame Orb has very little defensive counterplay. Facade allows it to get through anything Fighting STAB or Knock Off isn't hitting well. Machamp is too strong for this tier. One can't even status it to impair it since it's permanently burned. The only saving grace for Machamp is that it has similar checks to Sirfetch'd, but like this matters at all. It remains centralising as hell. There's not much that really has to be said here, if you've played against it, you know how gross it is.

Other than looking ugly as hell, Sigilyph has a lot of reasons to be removed from the tier. Its versatility in sets that are all problematic in their own individual way. Standard Life Orb sets break teams with ease, Flame Orb Psycho Shift sets are stupid as hell. Heck, I've even used Choice Specs Tinted Lens Sigilyph to a lot of success. In terms of counterplay there really isn't any reliable answers, nothing that can come in regardless of set. Generally people are relying on their Exploud-mandated Gigalith to check it, which isn't coming in that many times before it withers away.

This Pokemon is really stupid. In terms of reliable counterplay you have Gigalith and Silvally-Steel, both of which get whittled down after consistent switchins. Offensive HDB sets don't have to worry about potential Water-type switchins since they can just alternate to Freeze Dry. Choice Specs sets are very very powerful. This seems like a Pokemon most people have forgotten about, but it should be considered as one of the premier threats of the metagame, one I personally believe is too broken for the tier.

On The Fence

Truthfully I hadn't really considered this to be broken prior to termi's above post. That being said after consideration, I can see where she's coming from. There aren't that many competent switchins to this, if the metagame had more competent Steel-types it would surely help. Pokemon like Gigalith can sort of come in on Eject Pack / non-Choiced sets once or twice. I kind of want to see this in the metagame post the bans of the Pokemon I listed above.

Unburden sweepers like Hitmonlee and Sceptile are unhealthy in the current megame to say the least. Especially with a competent setter like Indeedee-F allowing them to bet set up without sacrificing much in terms of team support. I think these Pokemon are definitely unhealthy, without a doubt, but I'd like to see how they function in a metagame without Indeedee-F's prevalence, and instead having to rely on lesser terrain setters like Thwackey and Pincurchin.

One of the major reasons I'm kind of doubting that the removal of Indeedee-F will have much say on whether these Unburden sweepers are relevant is Raichu-Alola, which I believe is another broken in addition to the above. This Pokemon will only get better come the removal of Indeedee-F because of the then lack of conflicting terrain. You know what this Pokemon does, Nasty Plot, Rising Voltage, GK/Surf/Psyshock/Focus to hit potential counterplay. It's stupid to face. Teams can currently run Electric Seed Unburden sweepers in addition to Raichu-Alola and not have much trouble at all thanks to just how stupid this is in the current metagame. There are definitely answers to this in like Lanturn, Guzzlord and a few others, but most can be overwhelmed given Raichu is holding the right coverage. In addition to that, it's only going to be freed up post Sirfetch'd ban, as it will no longer be pushed into running Protect to deal with First Impression. I'm not looking forward to facing this post initial bans but we'll see how it fairs.

Overall, having a lot of fun in the current meta, albeit I would definitely love to see some of the more potent annoyances gone. Looking forward to the upcoming shifts, but also a little anxious, hoping Pokemon that are appearing to be metagame staples aren't stripped from us by higher tiers. Thank you for reading my post, have a lovely day.

 

[Specs]

Council Minutes​

Meta Discussion:

• As we play more and more in this new wild meta game, we've been talking about some underrated threats that have been a bit less seen. has had some talk. It's quite strong, has the speed tier advantage over and so it can fit Choice Specs on a bit easier, has some more set variety with Taunt and Protect + Toxic sets. However, is still extremely popular as a special blanket check for things like and , and while it is fast common offensive mons like and for example do outrun and kill it. was talked about earlier today actually. Bulk Up sets and DD sets do seem terrifying if say there isn't an in its way. DD sets can even get past those annoying fairys, LO +1 Iron head almost always kills Silvally-Fairy after rocks. Finally, has sorta just gone under the radar as far as usage and talk goes until now. Great attack stat, the speed tier is good enough, Flying/Fighting is perfect coverage in the tier, it just seems very dangerous. We haven't seen much of it in actual games, but I implore everyone to try it out and let us know what you think.
• What are some sleeper picks that you all have been finding in this meta game? Anything we've missed on these Council Minutes since the drops? How do you feel about the meta game as a whole? Let us know here, we love reading what you have to say. I don't think we've ever plugged the discord in these, but discussion can happen there too. Join up here if you're interested.

VR and Other Votes:

• There will be a vote happening this Sunday. We feel this gives us enough time with whatever we get from this coming shift. Look forward to that!
• After the vote, we hope to have either a VR list or a full on VR ranking. This will take some time, but we know it's very helpful for people building and trying to learn the tier/new meta game.

Forum Happenings:

• The shift on January 1st is almost here, so get ready for that!
• The PU World Cup has concluded. Congrats to Team Canada + US North East on winning!
• There is now a PUWC Team Dump thread where participants have started posting what they used, check it out here!
• LTPL Week 2 is up, check out the PU match ups here!

 

[Landon]

I've been playing and enjoying PU a lot recently, so I thought I'll give my views. Most of this is going to be pretty redundant from what other users have said, but still thought I'd give my input.

Brokens

First of all, this mon has pretty much no reliable switch in, leaving players having to predict what move it will use. Specs Boomburst hits way too hard and like Chloe said, those Boomburst switch-ins get 2HKOd by a coverage move. Not to mention, if paired with Webs it can be even harder to deal with. This broken ass mon needs to go.

This thing gets all the coverage it could want and hits hard with its LO + Magic Guard set. Base 97 speed is good and Psycho Shift or Cosmic Power sets can be a pain in the ass to deal with. Its offensive sets suffer a bit from 4 move syndrome; however, it still finds great success and should still be banned.

While this mon actually does have some decent checks in Weezing, Garbodor, and Aromatisse, its raw power is too much for PU imo. Having Scrappy makes Ghost-types unable to switch in and it gets great coverage as well. It also gets priority in First Impression which just adds to making this mon more broken.

Much like Sirfetch'd, this mons raw power is too much for PU. Guts Facade is able to 2HKO Aromatisse and 2HKO Weezing after rock damage. With all the Rock-types like Gigalith being ran, this mon isn't too hard to get in and start clicking buttons with. It definitely needs to go.

Every team is pretty much forced to run a Steel-type to deal with this mon. Dazzling Gleam pretty much 2HKO's or OHKO's most Dark-types switching into this. Specs is hella scary and Scarf is excellent. Psychic Terrain makes Unburden mons likes Sceptile and Hitmonlee very scary as well. Not to mention the terrain stops priority, making those setup mons even harder to revenge kill. Get this thing out.

Much like Chole, this mon didn't come across my mind of being broken until I really looked into it. This mon can run a plethora of sets: Specs, Scarf, Rocks, Eject Pack, and ID + Body Press, thus making it hard to prep for. Specs is hard to switch into and unlike Drampa and Eggy-A this thing has a decent speed tier. I think it's certainly more manageable to deal with then the mons above, so I wouldn't be mad if it stayed, but leaning more towards ban.

CritDra can easily break through bulkier teams thanks to Focus Energy. There are a limited amount of mons that resist Kingdra's dual STABS and even then Kingdra can run moves to deal with those mons. Agility also makes this mon harder to revenge kill. Thanks to Scale Shot and Dragon Dance, Kingdra can viably run physical sets too. There is limited counterplay to this mon and so it needs to go.

Maybe Broken

Indeedee is what makes this mon good, as it's able to remove checks like Weezing making Sceptile able to sweep. Sceptile doesn't have a hard time setting up either as it can afford to run bulk thanks to Unburden. There is some decent counterplay to this mon. Mons like bulky Talonflame (if no Rock Slide), Weezing, Garbodor, and Golbat can usually deal with it.

This things is pretty stupid in terrain, but it has checks such as Guzzlord and Lanturn. Indeedee being in the tier also helps make it less broken as it removes the terrain. Overall, not to worried about this right now, but as Chloe said, if Indeedee goes it could become more problematic.

CB Golurk is hard to switch into without predicting. It also can straight up sweep teams with Rock Polish and gets access to Stealth Rock. I don't find it super annoying though in the current meta, but we'll see how it fairs as the meta moves.

Fun and Underrated Mons I've Been Enjoying

I'm surprised I haven't seen this mon more. Specs Magmorter hits very hard and it has good coverage. Scorching Sands hits mons like Lanturn and Coalossal, Thunderbolt hits bulky waters like Vaporeon and Jellicent, and it even gets Focus Blast to hit the likes of Guzzlord and Drampa. Overall, fun mon that has kind of been under the radar due to all the other broken mons.

Specs Magmorter

Magmortar @ Choice Specs
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid / Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Overheat
- Flamethrower / Lava Plume
- Scorching Sands
- Teleport / Thunderbolt / Focus Blast

Druddigon is quite the fun mon. Mold Breaker means you always get up rocks and Glare support is good. Even Rough Skin + Helmet is good for chipping down mons, espcially ones that like to U-Turn around. Not to mention it has a base 120 attack stat with good coverage like Gunk Shot and Earthquake, so I think it's quite unexplored.

Rocks Druddigon

Druddigon @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin / Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 228 Def / 28 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Glare
- Dragon Claw
- Taunt / Earthquake / Gunk Shot / Sucker Punch

Talonflame has been fun to use in this meta. Bulky Talonflame takes on a good chunk of the meta's Fighting types. It also has a great speed tier which allows it to come in and Will-O-Wisp a lot of mons. Not too much to say, not uncommon, but haven't seen as much bulkier sets.

Bulky Talonflame

Talonflame @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 248 HP / 20 Def / 240 Spe or 248 HP / 92 Def / 168 Spe Jolly
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Will-O-Wisp
- Roost
- Defog / Flare Blitz / U-Turn

With Exploud and Indeedee being so good, SpDef Aggron has been a fun check. It also takes on fairies likes Whim and Ribombee a lot easier as it doesn't get chipped down as much. Body Press is also pretty cool as you're able to 2HKO even some bulkier Sivally-Steels. Again, not a lot to add, just a standard Aggron with SpDef.

SpDef Aggron

Aggron @ Leftovers
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 248 HP / 248 SpD / 12 Spe
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Head Smash
- Heavy Slam
- Body Press

 

[iceblazer]

Here are my two cents on this meta.

Surprisingly, I haven’t had much trouble with this mon whenever I faced it. But I very much get where people are going with this. Steel + Dragon + Coverage is nigh unwallable except for other Steels, and they got bopped by Body Press. Just like the other two broken mons in and it can also run many sets ranging from wallbreaker Specs to efficient revenge killer Scarf to hair pullingly annoying Iron Defense + BP sets. I’ve even seen SR + three attacks as a lead with Air Balloon with success. It’s not without its flaws and checks, but I think it would be better for the future if it was banned.

Remember when I said I would go back to this mon after I got more experience with it? Well, my wish was granted and I can say for certain that this mon is broken. CC + Knock Off is enough to punish anything that tries to switch in, with additional BB for good measure. And Ghosts can’t even switch in fear of eating a very strong Knock Off or just getting heavily battered by CC. Really, there’s not much I want to say that hasn’t been spoken already by others, so please get this stupid knight duck banned.

On the topic of Hail, I don’t think the weather in itself is broken, but rather the mons that abuse it. Namely, is one of these problems, and boy is it a major one. Anyone who’s seen the recent room tours should know what I’m talking about. Coverage? What’s that? Absolutely nothing can switch into Banded Fishious Rend without either outright dying or having a giant chunk of their health taken away... and then being KOed by another attack. About the only ones safe are Water Absorb mons like , and what’s to say that the Vish user can’t switch into their own , , or ? Shortly put, ban the fish.

Another abuser of Hail, but I don’t believe this to be as problematic right now. Yes, STAB Blizzard hurts like a bitch and Freeze-Dry nails Waters that try to tank it, but we have a plethora of Fighting and Fire types that can switch in, eat a Blizzard, and proceed to force out the ice cream. Not to mention its movepool is pretty barren and losing Hidden Power really sucks for it.

Could be a problem if rises favorite it a bit too much, but I think its fine for now. I haven’t seen much of it rn, so I’ll edit this once I take it out for a test drive.

Yeesh, this thing. As stated above, Flying + Fighting hits everything in the tier for neutral damage and is an absolute pain in the ass to switch into. Your best chance is to scout out for whatever move it’s using and hope you can swallow an angry American bird charging into your defenses. And then (see a pattern?) there’s BU + Sub to shit on checks like Weezing. There’s probably some check I forgot about, but I wouldn’t mind seeing this banned.

Now for some positivity. Here are some mons that I’ve found criminally underrated.

Lumping these two together because they both fulfill similar roles. I adore these two for one reason: Scarf. Both are very efficient at revenge killing and in general putting pressure on the opposing team. Pass has U-turn to generate momentum, and while Sawk lacks both the aforementioned U-turn and Gunk Shot, Ice Punch and Poison Jab both make up for it. In short: USE MONKEY AND BERT.

Like Termi, I’ve been using bulky Vika for some time now and I can confirm that the bug is fantastic at its job. A Fighting type check that doesn’t fall to Dark or Poison moves AND has reliable recovery is an instant plus in my book. And who could forget about the massive power provided by Specs? Oh and it’s also badass looking

A fantastic stallbreaker or deadly wallbreaker, it’s up to you. Gaining Scorching Sands allowed it to finally beat its eternal check Lanturn, which means that nothing is truly safe from this monster. AV is also interesting as well, allowing it to act as a special check as well. I’m surprised that this is slept on so much.

Very unpredictable mon here. Specs allow it to wreck havoc on the opposing team, Band can surprise Fairies with Heavy Slam and cripple them with Knock Off, and AV is an all around decent special wall with Drain Punch to support it.

That’s all I have to say for now. Ciao!

 

[zS]

Hlelo everyone, I promised to write on post about my thoughts on the current sleeper picks in the Metagame so here I am:

: I'm really astonished no one mentionned this thing since the tier has nothing to switch into it properly. The only "reliable" switch in is Regirock and it suffers from knock + u-turn combination. The combination of big damage output, good speedtier, u-turn, the metagame being full of grass/psychic/dark/fighting mons and the lack of reliable defensive counterplay makes scyther a bit over the top imo. I've also been experimenting scarf scyther, which can be amazing in a lot of matchups if supported correctly.

: I know Roserade is likely to rise to either NU or RU but god it has nothing to do down here. It has a great total of 1 consistent switch being Silvally-Steel and this doesn't have a reliable recovery in addition to being either crippled by Spikes that are set-up by Roserade itself or by sleep powder. Golbat is also a switch in if it doesn't run extrasensory but it has to be full spd and avoid rocks to be up by the time it gets in (or Roserade to click sleep powder and get good sleep rolls). Scarf is a great revenge killer while still having that great surprise factor since it's not that common. Specs Roserade can also be a huge threat but that relies on prediction to be rly efficient so I recommand life orb if anything.

(fairy, dark, ghost): Those 3 silvally forms are the most powerful of all of them. Swords Dance + Flame Charge + Multi-Attack is still way too much for the tier. Add that to the fact that we have all the silvallies in the tier right now, which makes those 3 even better since they are way less predictable. Having more than 2 good silvally forms is a real pain and I think at least one of them should be voted if not banned.

To Finish this post, I'll dump a few of my favorite teams in this meta:









Alright, thanks for reading me, it was a really short post compared to my usual posting but i didn't have enough time to write about the things that were mentionned on the posts above. zS out!

 

[Hera]

As 2020 comes to a close, so to does this brand new meta. Despite not being the most seasoned competitive player, I have grown fond of PU regardless of generation during this year (except Gen 4), and have many thanks for the community as a whole. But enough about me: there are so many broken things in PU right now, and I wanted to talk about them while not simply retreading stuff people have already said.


If you asked me what the most broken playstyle in PU is right now, I would say that it is Electric Terrain without a single doubt. Just Raichu-A and Pinchy would be a massive problem for the tier, but NU "blessed" PU with two insane Unburden mons, Hitmonlee and Sceptile. Add that to the fact that PU already had several viable Rising Voltage users, such as Jolteon, Manectric, and the newly added Heliolisk, and you have what I call an extremely unhealthy playstyle. Checks to just Raichu-A are almost non-existent: they boil down to Ferroseed, AV Guzz, and Claydol, all of which need max max Careful to even hope to survive a +2 Magnet Rising Voltage or Grass Knot, and all of these conveniently fold to Sceptile or Hitmonlee. Offensively, it looks managable with First Impression Sirfetch'd and Sucker Punch Absol, but the former just makes Raichu-A click Protect and the latter forces you to win a 50/50, and both are, again, easily exploitable by one of the Unburden mons. Shadow Sneak mons such as Dusknoir and Gourgeist can deal with it, but you'll be hard pressed to use them outside of this niche when Golurk exists. Overall, there simply isn't enough ways to deal with terrain, and many games boil down to if Raichu-A gets to +2 or not, a surprisingly easy thing to achieve because nothing wants to stay in on it. As for tiering policies, I'm not exactly sure if banning Pincurchin or banning Raichu-A is the move here. Sure, the playstyle would be heavily nerfed without Raichu-A, but Sceptile and Hitmonlee are also broken, and Heliolisk would make a solid replacement thanks to similar coverage.


If you asked me the most broken mon in the entire tier, I would think a bit, then say Sigilyph. On paper, it has so many sets: Flame Orb Psycho Shift, LO CM, All-Out Attacker, Cosmic Power Stored Power, and Tinted Lens Specs are simply the ones I can think of right off the top of my head. Each of these sets require different counterplay, and while some are more common than others (I usually see LO CM or All-Out), they must all be accounted for when building because not building for the right one can decimate your team. It has so many different checks depending on the set that it's near impossible to build against, and it has many ways to work around checks to a specific set (Coalossal seems like a solid check to the Psycho Shift one, but folds to one with Toxic Orb instead of Flame Orb). Sigilyph simply does too much in great ways, and that's what makes it broken.


Another dumb mon that just clicks buttons, but one I've seen very little talk about, especially since Hail is really good right now. Against teams that aren't running a Water Absorb mon (Vaporeon is pretty good but can't fit on any team, neither can Jellicent or Lanturn), it clicks Banded Fishious Rend and demolishes everything not named Avalugg, a pretty subpar mon in the current meta. Against teams that do have a Water Absorb mon, it can fall back on a mixed set and 2HKO all of them with LO Freeze Dry with minimal effort or chip. Slush Rush also gives it a really weird speed tier where it's not the fastest thing ever, but you need to commit to a Scarf in order to revenge kill it, sorely limiting your offensive options, and even then it can run Hasty to beat your Scarf. It's a bit matchup-fishy depending on the set, but it is one of the dumbest things in the tier right now.


Scrafty is a very interesting kind of broken. It doesn't absolutely invalidate offensive or defensive counterplay; DD sets reach a low Speed tier even at +2, leaving it revenge killed by a myriad of threats, while Bulk Up sets can be beaten by any Fairy because they often end up running only dual STABs and Rest. What Scrafty actually does is invalidate more passive teams not running Silvally-Fairy. Not only is it an insane win-con, it gets to pick and choose its checks and counters due to its ability and moveset. Dual STABs hit everything but Faries, which are dispatched by a +2 LO Iron Head. Each abilities forces different counterplay, and it's impossible to figure out which set it is from team preview. Moxie means you have to stop it before it sets up via defensive counterplay such as Toxic, Shed Skin forces you to take a more offensive approach in the hopes that you outspeed or outmuscle it, and Intimidate gives it a free turn against most physical attackers. It may not be as dumb as all the other broken stuff right now, but rest assured it's still dumb.

Unfortunately, that's really it. There are a few more things that could be problems, like Toxicroak or Taurus, but I sadly haven't seen enough of them to gauge their effectiveness in the meta. Either way, I have personally disliked building for this meta because there are so many threats to account for, and it's impossible to account for all of them without either using the brokens or falling into similar team structures. This was shown in the finals of the PUWC (props to CANE for winning btw), where the winning teams were all VoltTurn offenses that emphasized on momentum, sometimes with a solid defensive core like in Bouff's game. This isn't inherently bad (in fact, I enjoy using VoltTurn) and this was a small sample size of 3 games, but the fact that most of the teams had a similar structure leads me to believe that the meta was forcing teams to build that way. The meta ends tomorrow, so luckily most of my building issues caused by the brokens should be in NU or on a slate, but I just wanted to air my grievances.

To end this post, I wanted to post some sets I've been enjoying and finding success with.

SD Leek Sirfecth'd

Sirfetch’d @ Leek
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- Brave Bird

I love this set. While it's inconsistent, the ability to pick up OHKOs on Weezing and Aroma while occasionally being able to bluff Band due to Band being more common + crits is amazing. You would not believe the amount of pivots this thing is able to abuse due to forcing so many switches, and if Webs are on the ground, it's basically GG at +2. Ada can work, especially if you don't like replacing Brave Bird with Poison Jab, but I find the 229 to 251 speed tier to be packed, and I'm often better off speed tying with mons like Frosmoth or Centiskorch.

Colbur Berry Trick Golurk

Golurk @ Colbur Berry
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Trick
- Close Combat
- Poltergeist
- Stealth Rock

So the idea here was "waste my Colbur by tanking a Knock and crippling the unlucky Koffer by taking their item", and this ended up working pretty well. Golurk is great Passimian bait, so they're completely surprised when I Trick away their Scarf and revenge kill them. Shadow Punch can work for itemless Xatu but I haven't seen it.

Throat Spray Exploud

Exploud @ Throat Spray
Ability: Scrappy
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Surf
- Focus Blast
- Fire Blast

Rocks and Steels giving you trouble by switching into Specs Boomburst? Order a Throat Spray for only $9.99! All the power of Specs, but the ability to change moves to catch the jump on those pesky Gigaliths and Aggrons! Watch and be amazed as Boomburst into +1 Focus Blast turns Gigaliths to rubble, while a +1 Surf dispatches anything the other 3 moves don't hit! Note: Focus Blast may only hit 30% of the time with this set. We are not responsible for any games that come down to a Focus Blast miss.

SpDef Regigigas

Regigigas @ Leftovers
Ability: Slow Start
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Substitute
- Knock Off
- Protect
- Toxic

Fun fact: Regi is the only non-resist not wearing an Assault Vest that can switch into an Exploud Specs Boomburst (sequence is switch-in Tect Koff Tect switch-out). Not only that, but it is absolutely amazing against passive teams, spreading Koff and Toxic while behind a hard to break Sub with it's great Speed tier for a defensive mon.

Hope you have fun with these sets, and have a great new year!

 

[gye5]

For me hail is not that broken, maybe is because I commonly run hitmonlee plus terrain. But honestly scarfers do well against hail.
Also I wanna talk regirock, which is underated. Body press +iron defense lets you beat many bulky moms like audino and its main rival gigalith. Also regirock checks hitmonlee, centiskorch, charizard and talonflame which are dangerous if left uncheck.
Another mom I wanna talk about is guzzlord. I have t seen this mom a lot but now it can run choiband with the adition of heatcrash. Finally the last mom I wanna talk about is indede. Indedee is just broken, not a single reason to keep it in the tier, it prevents prority and it hits very hard and it can fight against darks, mainly absol whose sucker punch is invalidated by psychic terrain.

 

[MZ]

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/usage-based-tier-update-for-january-2021.3675567/
We lost Golurk, Sigilyph, Vileplume, and Quagsire. We gained nothing. Pretty small shift whose main impact is to make broken Fighting-types even more broken and remove two of the best mons for sitting on Gigalith/Regirock. Be prepared for the first bans of this new meta to happen by Sunday, and if you want an idea of what might be going you can start with this post.

 

[BolTingBlazie]

Yeah if I could vote on pu mons I would vote ban on sirfetch'd

 

[MZ]

The PU Council has voted to ban Indeedee-F, Sirfetch'd, Machamp, Duraludon, Kingdra, Exploud, Raichu-Alola, Sceptile, and Tauros. You can find extensive reasonings from every council member in the linked post. There's an awful lot to talk about for old and new meta stuff, go wild.

 

[iceblazer]

The PU Council has voted to ban Indeedee-F, Sirfetch'd, Machamp, Duraludon, Kingdra, Exploud, Raichu-Alola, Sceptile, and Tauros. You can find extensive reasonings from every council member in the linked post. There's an awful lot to talk about for old and new meta stuff, go wild.

I’m surprised to see that Arctovish or the other Hail abusers aren’t on here, will they be looked at some time in the future?