Metagame NP: RU Stage 1 - I Lost Something in the Hills (Tier Shifts!)

phantom

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RU Leader
Tier Shifts!

-
up to UU
+
:raichu-alola:
down to RU

As expected, the post-home tier shifts are massive. Mantine leaving should shake up the tier pretty significantly since it was one of the top defensive mons in RU and one of the best defog users. The additions of Centiskorch, Virizion, Linoone, Decidueye, Weezing, and Frosmoth is bound to have a significant impact on the tier as well. Other drops will likely not be as good, but should have some kind of niche coming into the new meta. In addition, a few mons such as Corsola, Farfetch’d and Meltan also dropped, but will not be viable additions. Feel free to discuss the new drops, but avoid discussions on bans for the time being. As per our tiering policy, if the council needs to act on any of the drops, expect a vote within the next two weeks (or one week depending on how strong some of these drops are) as the meta settles.
 


This just sucks. But at the same time, could be interesting in terms of how the meta adapts. Mantine was a nice blanket check to many things in the tier and UU had to go and take it from us. It easily checked Salazzle, Steelix, Ninetales, and Charizard among others and now that it's gone, I'd expect those mons to get more usage and more violent lol. Mons that can spam Water moves like Barraskewda can find some sense of breathing room now that an absorber is gone too. These are just my initial thoughts but, it'll be fun to see how the meta develops with all those new toys we got!
 
:linoone:

is a nice addition to dual-screen / aurora-veil teams

SET:
Linoone @ Figy Berry
Ability: Gluttony
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Throat Chop / Shadow Claw
- Stomping Tantrum
- Belly Drum


:centiskorch:

since mantine left the building and ninetales is even a biggr threat i think the drop of centiskorch could make a ninetales check and i think it could also check copperajah, steel-vally and vileplume.

:virizion:

ru has it back, the good old reliable justice trio member in virizion, i think it makes a good addition to the tier with a high speed-tier of 108 and makes up
for a good breaker with the swords dance set. this pkmn is also capable to break thru its checks with its coverage options in stone edge / zen headbutt.

SET:
Virizion @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Leaf Blade
- Close Combat
- Synthesis / Stone Edge / Zen Headbutt


:morpeko: :claydol:

more hazard-control with rapid-spin is always nice and claydol can set stealth rocks too for its teammates and has amazing coverage options with ice beam in its arsenal. i think claydol can be a good check to coalossal, gurdurr and mudsdale.

:frosmoth:

quiver dance sets are amazing on this pkmn with its ability in ice scales which is basically a built in assult vest, i think that defog sets with heavy-duty-boots might also see some usage.

:weezing:

could make up for a virizion check

:stunfisk:

no real expectations on this mon honestly.


the rest i dont have any real comments on them BUT :Decidueye: could make up for a good swords dance and priority-user

SET:
Decidueye @ Life Orb
Ability: Long Reach
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Leaf Blade
- Spirit Shackle
- Shadow Sneak
 
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Interesting ! But too many drops at the same time, RU will change drastically. Centiskorch is pretty scary, it's only checks/counters are weak to Stealth Rock(Coalossal, Charizard, Cramorant)... and it has Knock Off/Scald.
 
Wow there's a lot to talk about here lol.

Rises
:mantine:
This is a very big loss for the tier, being that Mantine was the supreme bulky water in the meta with only decent / mediocre pokemon like Jellicent and Gastrodon competing with it. Mantine also formed a massive amount of the balance and bulky offensive cores (like :vileplume: / :steelix: / :mantine:) which sucks because most teams that players had consisted heavily of Mantine, rendering a lot of teams useless.

Drops

Alolan Raichu looks extremely good on paper, being a very fast electric type with the amazing dual typing of psychic makes it a very potent wall-breaker when coupled with moves like Nasty Plot. This mon also has a really expansive amount of coverage being blessed with Focus Blast, Psychic, and Grass Knot. At +2 Alolan Raichu can also break past Steelix quite easily with Grass Knot.

+2 252 SpA Life Orb :Raichu-Alola: Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD :Steelix:: 257-304 (72.5 - 85.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Raichu-Alola @ Life Orb / Shuca Berry
Ability: Surge Surfer
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Psyshock
- Grass Knot / Focus Blast
- Thunderbolt


:morpeko:
I really like what Morpeko is capable of, being a decent electric type boasting really good coverage in Dark / Grass / Fire / Fighting letting it take on pokemon that electric types usually can't like Gastrodon, Steelix, and Rhydon. Morpeko is also able to fill a really good support role with moves like Rapid Spin and Parting shot.
Morpeko @ Choice Band
Ability: Hunger Switch
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Aura Wheel
- Brick Break
- Crunch
- Seed Bomb / Fire Fang

Morpeko @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Hunger Switch
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Aura Wheel
- Rapid Spin
- Protect
- Parting Shot



Centiskorch was previously in the RU pre-alpha tier so we have seen a bit of it before. This mon seems really cool because it's able to just sit on steelix while also taking on mons like gastrodon due to an immunity to burn and a very good spdef stat coupled with the move knock off to prevent leftovers sustain. Centiskorch is also able to easily handle Ninetales due to Flash Fire and its Bug typing.
Centiskorch @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fire Lash
- Knock Off
- Power Whip
- Leech Life



Virizion will most likely be incredible in this metagame, just like last gen. Having favorable matchups vs alot of what's good right now and being extremely strong and fast for the tier's standards.
Virizion @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Leaf Blade
- Close Combat
- Synthesis



Weezing is looking to be pretty good in this meta from a first glance, being able to check threatening fighting types like Virizion and Passimian. Weezing is also just an all around good physically defensive wall that can spread status very well and neuter things like rhydon and silvally with haze.
Weezing @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Bomb
- Haze
- Will-O-Wisp
- Toxic Spikes / Pain Split
(96 spe outpaces adamant max spe rhydon)



I have mixed opinions on Frosmoth. I can see it carving itself a niche in the meta but i feel like being slower than most of the scarfers at +1 and being forced to quiver dance twice to actually do something is a major drawback, but nonetheless this pokemon is still really strong and has a good offensive typing with a decent movepool.
Frosmoth @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Ice Scales
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Ice Beam
- Bug Buzz
- Giga Drain / Protect



I have wanted Claydol to drop for some time now, being able to wall salazzle while taking on mons like steelix and rhydon with no issues are 2 amazing attributes that I believe will propel this mons viability a decent amount. Claydol is also able to provide amazing support for a team with moves like toxic, stealth rock, and rapid spin.
Claydol @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rapid Spin
- Earth Power
- Psychic
- Teleport
136 SpA :Claydol: Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD :Vileplume:: 188-224 (53.1 - 63.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery


:linoone:
Linoone received a pretty considerable nerf this gen with pinch berries, but nonetheless I can still see it being decent on HO type builds.
Linoone @ Figy Berry
Ability: Gluttony
EVs: 72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Belly Drum
- Extreme Speed
- Throat Chop
- Stomping Tantrum


:rapidash:
Rapidash has good potential to be a decent wall-breaker, with moves like flare blitz, high horsepower, and wild charge letting it hit a lot of mons that are popular at the moment like Vileplume, Steelix, and more.
Rapidash @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Morning Sun / Swords Dance
- Flare Blitz
- High Horsepower
- Wild Charge


These are really the only tier shifts that interested me, the rest seem pretty average.
 
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Wow there's a lot to talk about here lol.

Rises
:mantine:
This is a very big loss for the tier, being that Mantine was the supreme bulky water in the meta with only decent / mediocre pokemon like Jellicent and Gastrodon competing with it. Mantine also formed a massive amount of the balance and bulky offensive cores (like :vileplume: / :steelix: / :mantine:) which sucks because most teams that players had consisted heavily of Mantine, rendering a lot of teams useless.

Drops

Alolan Raichu looks extremely good on paper, being a very fast electric type with the amazing dual typing of psychic makes it a very potent wall-breaker when coupled with moves like Nasty Plot. This mon also has a really expansive amount of coverage being blessed with Focus Blast, Psychic, and Grass Knot. At +2 Alolan Raichu can also break past Steelix quite easily with Grass Knot.

+2 252 SpA Life Orb :Raichu-Alola: Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD :Steelix:: 257-304 (72.5 - 85.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Raichu-Alola @ Life Orb / Shuca Berry
Ability: Surge Surfer
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Psyshock
- Grass Knot / Focus Blast
- Thunderbolt


:morpeko:
I really like what Morpeko is capable of, being a decent electric type boasting really good coverage in Dark / Grass / Fire / Fighting letting it take on pokemon that electric types usually can't like Gastrodon, Steelix, and Rhydon. Morpeko is also able to fill a really good support role with moves like Rapid Spin and Parting shot.
Morpeko @ Choice Band
Ability: Hunger Switch
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Aura Wheel
- Brick Break
- Crunch
- Seed Bomb / Fire Fang

Morpeko @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Hunger Switch
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Aura Wheel
- Rapid Spin
- Protect
- Parting Shot



Centiskorch was previously in the RU pre-alpha tier so we have seen a bit of it before. This mon seems really cool because it's able to just sit on steelix while also taking on mons like gastrodon due to an immunity to burn and a very good spdef stat coupled with the move knock off to prevent leftovers sustain. Centiskorch is also able to easily handle Ninetales due to Flash Fire and its Bug typing.
Centiskorch @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fire Lash
- Knock Off
- Power Whip
- Leech Life



Virizion will most likely be incredible in this metagame, just like last gen. Having favorable matchups vs alot of what's good right now and being extremely strong and fast for the tier's standards.
Virizion @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Leaf Blade
- Close Combat
- Synthesis



Weezing is looking to be pretty good in this meta from a first glance, being able to check threatening fighting types like Virizion and Passimian. Weezing is also just an all around good physically defensive wall that can spread status very well and neuter things like rhydon and silvally with haze.
Weezing @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Bomb
- Haze
- Will-O-Wisp
- Toxic Spikes / Pain Split
(96 spe outpaces adamant max spe rhydon)



I have mixed opinions on Frosmoth. I can see it carving itself a niche in the meta but i feel like being slower than most of the scarfers at +1 and being forced to quiver dance twice to actually do something is a major drawback, but nonetheless this pokemon is still really strong and has a good offensive typing with a decent movepool.
Frosmoth @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Ice Scales
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Ice Beam
- Bug Buzz
- Giga Drain / Protect



I have wanted Claydol to drop for some time now, being able to wall salazzle while taking on mons like steelix and rhydon with no issues are 2 amazing attributes that I believe will propel this mons viability a decent amount. Claydol is also able to provide amazing support for a team with moves like toxic, stealth rock, and rapid spin.
Claydol @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rapid Spin
- Earth Power
- Psychic
- Teleport
136 SpA :Claydol: Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD :Vileplume:: 188-224 (53.1 - 63.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery


:linoone:
Linoone received a pretty considerable nerf this gen with pinch berries, but nonetheless I can still see it being decent on HO type builds.
Linoone @ Figy Berry
Ability: Gluttony
EVs: 72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Belly Drum
- Extreme Speed
- Throat Chop
- Stomping Tantrum


:rapidash:
Rapidash has good potential to be a decent wall-breaker, with moves like flare blitz, high horsepower, and wild charge letting it hit a lot of mons that are popular at the moment like Vileplume, Steelix, and more.
Rapidash @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Morning Sun / Swords Dance
- Flare Blitz
- High Horsepower
- Wild Charge


These are really the only tier shifts that interested me, the rest seem pretty average.
Yo thx for including sets cause that is always a thing I look for, I am bad at theorizing good sets myself.
 
:weezing:
weezing has become one of my favorite mons to use with the introduction of its ability neutralizing gas. with this ability, you do things such as getting toxic spikes up vs. incoming xatus or cripple with residual damage from moves like will-o-wisp, stopping sableye in its track preventing it from utilizing prankster, prevent indeedee from getting psychic terrain up on predicted turns, making it more easier to answer if your opponent is to gain the momentum of getting indeedee in for free or even better check pokemon such as gurdurr and flapple since they both rely on their ability to be offensive threats in guts and hustle respectively. however, weezing does become more vulnerable as it does become weak to ground attacks losing out on levitate, however weezing is usually able to still tank earthquakes decently from unboosted threats like steelix, rhydon, and virizion (if one ever chooses to run eq for some reason), especially after being able to get will-o-wisp off on it, and still maintaining health via pain split. weezing does have a large variety of moves, and it really comes down to what you look for weezing to do. defog, will-o, taunt, t-spikes, painsplit, sludge bomb, flamethrower, toxic, haze, are all incredible options. this was just something i wanted to share as i start exploring the tier with the new drops, and was something i was incredibly happy to see finally in the tier.

edit: TIL weezing doesnt learn defog
 
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Punchshroom

FISHIOUS REND MEGA SHARPEDO
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Over the past couple of days, I have been excited in trying out Centi in RU since it has a fantastic boosting move, great resists + overall bulk, and access to all kinds of coverage to boot. The bulky sets especially are arguably meta-defining due to how much more necessary Rock coverage becomes for most teams to deal with them.

Centiskorch @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Coil
- Fire Lash
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Mono-boosting Centi. I opted for full physically defensive to just make my physical bulk nigh impenetrable after just one boost (4 Atk Mudsdale Rock Slide vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Centiskorch: 168-200 (41.5 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO), much less several. Even while uninvested, Centi still has more than enough special bulk to shrug off resisted special attacks from the likes of Vanilluxe, Ninetales, and Frosmoth. Of course, you could still choose the more standard specially defensive spread and let Coil alone patch up your mediocre physical bulk, that works fine regardless. This set's EV spread can be tweaked in a myriad of ways, as I'm not even too sure if full physical bulk is particularly optimal either.

Centiskorch @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Fire Lash
- Scald
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Here's my take on specially defensive Centiskorch though. 100/90 invested special bulk is extremely fat, like take 18-22% from Vanilluxe Blizzard sort of fat, and even Salazzle's +0 Sludge Waves and Jellicent's Scalds have a zero/near impossible chance of 3HKOing you. Speaking of Scald, you may have noticed this oddity of a move on Centi, and this move helps to deter common Rock move users (mainly the Stealth Rockers or even the occasional Rock Slide Passimian who wants to take advantage of Fire Lash's Def drop with Defiant) as well as be able to spread burns in general; 2HKOing Salazzle is a nice bonus. Having two disruptive moves to Sleep Talk with makes counterplay a lot trickier, AND Scald can even thaw Centiskorch in the event that it gets frozen by the Ice-type moves it sponges.
0 SpA Centiskorch Scald vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Coalossal: 164-196 (38.6 - 46.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Centiskorch Scald vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mudsdale: 122-144 (30.1 - 35.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Centiskorch Scald vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Rhydon: 264-312 (63.7 - 75.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Centiskorch Scald vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Eviolite Rhydon: 180-216 (43.4 - 52.1%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Centiskorch Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Salazzle: 158-188 (57 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Centiskorch @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 216 Spe / 40 SpD
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Coil
- Fire Lash
- Power Whip
- Knock Off

The EVs and nature on offensive Centi are for outrunning Adamant / Jolly Bewear respectively, though you could run less if it's not much concern to you. Power Whip can take out Rhydon & Jellicent after Coil and Gastrodon without. Knock Off is primarily to soften up Coalossal and Mudsdale to reduce their longevity and make them easier to break later on.

There's still much experimentation that needs to be done with Centiskorch, and it certainly has the potential to become a top tier threat very quickly should its potential be realized.
 
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Zneon

formerly f is for frens
Hello, so its been 3 days since the drops, and I want to quickly discuss my thoughts on the ones that I've used.



I generally find Centiskorch great all-around, its ability to check great mons like Steelix, Plume and arguably sun due to Flash Fire and its typing, I feel that this Pokemon gives incredibly valuable utility from this and is much easier to fit on a team than I thought before, especially with Mantine leaving the tier. It also has amazing coverage, Knock Off, Power Whip, Scald, Coil. Centiskorch just feels incredibly flexible with its coverage and ability to check so many prominent Pokemon. This is what I've been running.

Centiskorch @

Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Fire Lash
- Knock Off
- Rest
- Sleep Talk



Virizion feels incredibly potent, after an SD it can beat so much of the metagame with its STAB, and you can go Stone Edge for Centiskorch or Zen Headbutt for Vileplume on the 4th moveslot, or just Synthesis for the recovery, Virizion is a pretty flexible Pokemon and its SD set is generally only what it needs to do well and I find that it doesn't really suffer from 4 moveslot syndrome with the lack of Pokemon that can switch into its STAB combination, being able to outspeed the majority of the unboosted metagame is also a giant plus for this Pokemon. This thing feels incredibly potent and just overall threatening and feel can only continue to thrive.

Virizion @

Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Leaf Blade
- Stone Edge / Zen Headbutt /Synthesis




Linoone is just not good, at all, but personally I don't really blame it. The metagame at the moment is heavily skewed to bulky offense and balance teams, and honestly I feel the reason why it fails to work so well is the omnipresence of Indeedee, considering that the reason why BD Linoone was so threatening last gen was that after a BD it was nigh impossible to revenge kill it because of Espeed, now there is a Pokemon with Psyterrain, who is both one of the best Pokemon in the metagame and incredibly common both in tournament and in the ladder, and completely dismantles offense with little to no support. I feel when Indeedee sees less usage (or leaves plz) then I think Linoone will have more time to shine, but right now it is not what I would consider right now.

Linoone @

Ability: Gluttony
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Extreme Speed
- Stomping Tantrum
- Throat Chop

I feel that Virizion and Centiskorch have potential to be top-tier Pokemon in RU, especially with enough use and experimentation, Linoone is a different case however, as I feel a tier shift that will heavily favour offense will make Linoone much more relevant and threatening again like it was last gen. I have yet to use all of them, so I will give my thoughts on them another day.
 
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Id like to mention this cool core I made when I was teambuilding

Weezing @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Bomb
- Flamethrower
- Toxic Spikes
- Pain Split

Scrafty @ Leftovers
Ability: Shed Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 16 Atk / 240 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Rest
- Bulk Up

This balance core works well by virtue of them both annihilating each of their checks. Weezing annihilates fairy types that can threaten Scrafty , such as BD Slurpuff and Silvally-Fairy , and also can tank Fairy attacks for Scrafty. Scrafty can switch in on psychic attacks aimed at Weezing, as it's main purpose was stated above. A calc is more believable than words, so...

252+ SpA Weezing Sludge Bomb vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Slurpuff: 306-362 (100 - 118.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Weezing Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Silvally-Fairy: 254-300 (76.7 - 90.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Silvally-Fairy Multi-Attack vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Weezing: 67-80 (20 - 23.9%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

252+ Atk Slurpuff Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Weezing: 50-59 (14.9 - 17.6%) -- possible 6HKO

+6 252+ Atk Slurpuff Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Weezing: 199-234 (59.5 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

-----------------------------------------

16+ Atk Scrafty Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Xatu: 194-230 (71.5 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

16+ Atk Scrafty Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Indeedee: 348-410 (133.3 - 157%) -- guaranteed OHKO

16+ Atk Scrafty Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Silvally-Steel: 174-206 (52.5 - 62.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Silvally-Steel Multi-Attack vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Scrafty: 141-166 (42.2 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Xatu Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Scrafty: 61-72 (18.2 - 21.5%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Indeedee Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Scrafty: 138-163 (41.3 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
 

aVocado

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Centiskorch @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Coil
- Power Whip
- Fire Lash
- Knock Off

This thing is nuts. I don't really think it needs much bulk or a weird set, straight up coil 3 attacks does plenty on its own. Jellicent, Rhydon, Bewear, all those mons that are used as blanket checks to common threats get annihilated by skorch. When trying to theorymon counters I struggled to find anything except like rock slide hitmontop. it's forcing shit to run random rock moves just to try and check it, stone edge on copperajah or rock slide on passimian or even head smash (w/ rock head) on steelix, and even then (in passimian's case) it needs to be slightly chipped to be ohko'd. it also gets plenty of opportunities to set up cuz its typing is surprisingly decent and gives good resistances, and immunity to fire is nice, plus its natural bulk is very good for an offensive mon. also, the things that would check it (zard, for example) don't appreciate getting knocked off at all, so it can set up a wincon for itself by luring and knocking items off to win later.

that being said, i haven't really tried any other set cuz i've already had so much success with this one.
 
:raichu-alola::linoone::vanilluxe::passimian::indeedee::dhelmise:
Click for Pokepaste yadda yadda yadda
Fun team I decided to build with the new drops, haven't exactly tested too much yet. Vanilluxe and Raichu-A seem like a match made in heaven: Vanilluxe not only takes out most of the Grass-types that give Raichu trouble, but also obliterates Gastrodon and gives Raichu more opportunities to set up thanks to Veil. Linoone also works well on Veil since it lets it set up Belly Drum easier, and destroys anything bar Indeedee with ESpeed. Passimian synergizes well with Raichu as both a pivot to bring it in more safely, and a check to things like Ferroseed that would otherwise stop it cold. Indeedee forms a PsySpam core with Raichu and is there to clean up once Raichu has softened up the opposing team. Finally, I put in Dhelmise since I needed a spinner and I fucking hate Jellicent.
 

EviGaro

is a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Simulator Driver
RU Leader
Hello everyone, quick update that this weekend the Council will vote on five mons: Indeedee-M, Salazzle, Barraskewda, Centiskorch and Raichu-Alola

There's a few reasons why this happened, and obviously a lot has to do with the more recent tier shift: while the former three were already part of the tier previously, the rise of Mantine made their presence in the tier arguably more tenuous for some members of the Council. Losing a tremendous check that also happened to be the tier's best removal by far, a role very difficult to replace, is not negligible, and something we want to take another look at. Raichu-Alola and Centiskorch are newer arrivals, being in the tier for roughly two weeks now. Coupled with their almost perfect coverage, either natural bulk or incredible speed tier have made them incredible forces in the metagame, limiting their surefire checks to a handful of niche mons, which is another concern we have considering the high threat ceiling of this tier currently and little variety in reliable counterplay.

While we'd rather be done with quickbans slates, this scenario is almost impossible to deal with if we want to avoid a perpetual state of suspect testing. Five mons would take us way too long and lead us almost directly to the DLCs, making this a complete nightmare of an option. We're however fairly confident that things will eventually be looked at again given the nature of the generation we are promised, therefore making sure we see some sort of stability for the remaining few months before June is simply the better option.
 
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Hello everyone, quick update that this weekend the Council will vote on five mons: Indeedee-M, Salazzle, Barraskewda, Centiskorch and Raichu-Alola

There's a few reasons why this happened, and obviously a lot has to do with the more recent tier shift: while the former three were already part of the tier previously, the rise of Mantine made their presence in the tier arguably more tenuous for some members of the Council. Losing a tremendous check that also happened to be the tier's best removal by far, a role very difficult to replace, is not negligible, and something we want to take another look at. Raichu-Alola and Centiskorch are newer arrivals, being in the tier for roughly two weeks now. Coupled with their almost perfect coverage, either natural bulk or incredible speed tier have made them incredible forces in the metagame, limiting their surefire checks to a handful of niche mons, which is another concern we have considering the high threat ceiling of this tier currently and little variety in reliable counterplay.

While we'd rather be done with quickbans slates, this scenario is almost impossible to deal with if we want to avoid a perpetual state of suspect testing. Five mons would take us way too long and lead us almost directly to the DLCs, making this a complete nightmare of an option. We're however fairly confident that things will eventually be looked at again given the nature of the generation we are promised, therefore making sure we see some sort of stability for the remaining few months before June is simply the better option.
Leave my alolan raichu alone lol
 

aVocado

@ Everstone
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Centiskorch is undoubtedly broken, i don't think anyone disagrees.



I personally think indeedee is also unhealthy (not necessarily "broken" but a case could be made) cuz its speed puts it in a range where there isn't much that's faster, with all common scarfers being slower. psychic surge is also incredibly annoying cuz it pretty much neutralizes one of the only dedicated counters in sableye, and also prevents it from being revenge killed with priority. but that's all stuff everyone knows. there is also an issue of it being scarf or specs, could force people to sack mons. usual checks either fall to specs mystical fire, dazzling gleam, or repeated psychics cuz nothing can switch into it too many times. it also has no reason to not click coverage cuz if the opponent doesn't switch to a counter they will lose a mon. it's centralizing in that regard.



what's even more arguably centralizing is salazzle. there's 3 mons faster than it is: boltund, barraskewda, and any scarf mon. everything else besides those gets eaten alive by this thing. toxic hits everything that fire blast/sludge wave doesn't and puts counters on a timer for it to sweep later. it's very restricting and too fast and powerful honestly and I think the metagame would be far more fun without having to sack a mon when i run offense every time it comes in.



i don't think there's much wrong with barraskewda but I could be proven wrong. i think it's value (or "brokenness") is being inflated right now and that it'd be fine if the other threats are banned. and no, it's not a case of "broken checking broken" or whatever its called, i legitimately don't think this needs to go right now.


alolachu is an issue that i understand but haven't seen in effect too many times. I've used this and it often performed very well but i never thought it's too broken and needs to be quickbanned. i could change my mind though cuz it's never underperformed for me and other people are calling it broken, so there's probably a case for it.
 

termi

pyongyang gang
is a Tiering Contributor
bored so dropping opinions

:centiskorch: defensive counterplay is pretty much nonexistent to this thing, ur pretty much limited to fire types none of which want to take a knock and lose their boots (and even then lazzle cant even beat skorch 1v1). the state of the meta is dire rn, building a solid team that can answer all top threats is practically impossible rn and centiskorch is a chief reason why because anything that gives skorch a free turn is pretty much not worth using unless u pair it with like a qwilfish. broken!

:indeedee: this thing has been broken for a while and continues to be broken in a meta that strangely lacks solid psychic resists. there unfortunately arent many dark types in this meta that can comfortably fit on a lot of teams, so it's hard to find adequate counterplay beyond sdef lix/rajah/silv-steel ig. given that it is the fastest good scarfer, it easily cleans any team without a dark type once the resist is weakened a bit. specs and lo put it over the top by easily 2hkoing pretty much anything with its great coverage. could see this being healthy in the future but right now it feels too overbearing

:salazzle: this thing isnt broken, it's just annoying. while boots mitigate its problems somewhat, it remains very frail and hard to switch in, let alone set up. it's a top tier threat but i dont really see this thing being too problematic, it has a pretty established set of reliable defensive checks that are not too difficult to fit on a team (rhydon/jelli/gastro/lax/coalossoat). revenge killing it is also not too difficult when all common revenge killers commonly carry supereffective coverage for it. if this mon is banworthy it is moreso because of subtox but even then theres stuff like lax/rock blast rhydon that can beat it, so i really dont see this as an immediate issue

:barraskewda: leaning ban on this one. it can 2hko everything viable with its coverage bar like gastrodon, which u cant fit on every team, and this is a problem when ur also the fastest viable mon in the meta. much like centiskorch this mon is just way too awkward to deal with in the builder due to its coverage, but whereas centiskorch bones bulky teams skewda is primarily a death sentence to offensive teams that cannot afford to run a momentum suck of a pokemon

:raichu-alola: this thing seems fine to me for now. while it has the same kind of amazing coverage as centi and barraskewda, it is hella frail unlike the former and struggles to achieve KOs before a boost unlike the latter. it also has to pick and choose what it can beat since it typically has to pick between surf/gk/focus blast, whereas aforementioned threats have no such case of 4mss. this thing of least concern rn imo, if it turns out to be problematic along the way i think a suspect test would be a more suitable way to deal with it
 
might as well add to the discussion


:centiskorch: - broken as shit. no in depth discussion needed. get it tf out. throttles balance to an absurd degree thanks to its switchins being like.... turtonator and rapidash and silv dragon? lmfao yeah no

:indeedee: - now this is probably the mon i have the most controversial opinion on, but i don't think this is as bad as the other obvious brokens (raichu and lazzle and fuckin ninetales and centi). i feel like the choiced sets have the fundamental weakness that all other choiced mons have - it's easily abusable if it clicks the wrong moves. there are a good amount of mons that use its various attacks to gain momentum / take advantage of the opposition - big jah, silv dark, malamar/scrafty, sneasel etc all take advantage of predicted psychic attacks; bulky waters like jelli and gastro can use mystical fire as am opportunity to pop toxics on the opposition; steels and fires have no issue pressuring dgleam usage, and so on and so forth. it's not particularly strong when clicking coverage moves, unlike breakers like the dearly departed pangoro where even if you predicted "wrong" (there is no wrong with scrappy 123 atk cc but let's pretend there is) you get a massive chunk of damage on something; predicting wrong with indeedee coverage usually means a pittance of damage at best and momentum for your opponent. scarf has the issue of being a perfect trick user to not actually wanting to trick its scarf most of the time because it's the fastest mon on the team and it's required to revenge lazzle or skewda or opposing scarfers or whatever, much like garde in sm when it started to drop trick for wisp or coverage. calm mind sets sorta fix this issue, but they have the issue of not having all the moves you want; it's a bit harder to pressure teams when you don't have both psychic and shock. it also has the issue of not having the initial power of specs of the threatening speed of scarf, but it makes up for that by being able to surprise would-be switchins either early or late game. truth be told, i haven't had as much experience with cm as the other two sets, but it definitely comes with it's own pitfalls compared to choiced.
it also has pretty minimal defensive value - ghost immunity is pretty cool vs rotom and haunter, but outside of that it's not exactly gonna be making its way on the field without pivoting or skillful doubles. you take like 45 from uninvested plume sludge bomb ffs. if anything that increases the skill gap of the tier - if you use your powerful breaker more skillfully, you will get a higher reward (contrast to lazzle, where you click toxic with literally no thought or punishment and it hits literally everything every time unless it bounces off a xatu EXCEPT YOU DON'T GET PUNISHED FOR THAT EITHER. more on this aidsmon later.) with all that said, indeedee is absolutely a dominant force in the meta, and one that absolutely merits prep (and double prep), but usually that prep pairs well together anyway - for example, steel + scrafty + xatu, which is relatively comfortable vs indeedee and is just a generally solid three mon core. i won't deny that indeedee has sat as one of the strongest mons in the tier since it dropped, and games often do end up coming down to "who played their indeedee better in endgame", but i'm still quite on the fence on whether i'd consider it broken or simply very good. if this does get the boot by the council, i'd definitely want to see it retested in a meta where there's much less threats to prep for.

:salazzle: - this mon is dumb as bricks. fuck this pokemon. given the lack of clerics we have, being able to hit literally anything and everything with toxic for free is extremely dumb vs balance if you don't have a rest lax/shed skin scrafty/xatu. being able to smack all ur switchins with toxic for free is literally the perfect setup for np to clean in the late game; it literally sets up its own sweeps with one move that doesn't ever miss, and that is Very Not Okay imo. not to mention, planting toxics on everything is also ridiculously good support to teammates that may need assistance breaking fat mons, like the previously mentioned indeedee, or scarf rotom, or raichu, or vani, or skewda, or... you get the picture. and all that utility just comes from one move. then there's the part where it's the 2nd fastest viable mon in the tier (3rd if you count boltund but i don't bc that mon is dickcheese.) this practically mandates a scarfer to rk it, but you can entirely circumvent that by running tect and scouting anything you think wants to revenge you, in addition to giving you more recovery from sludge (AND racking up tox dmg on whatever it just crippled, forcing recovers more often and granting even more free turns). this shifts momentum even further in the salazzles favor entirely for free once again, letting lazzle dictate the pace of the game with way too much ease. on top of that, poison/fire is actually a pretty baller typing, with a plethora of relevant resistances and relatively few weaknesses, which means it gets far more opportunities to come on the field than a mon with this much power and speed and free utility should. it's also deceptively hard to revenge with scarfers despite its relatively poor bulk, since the vast majority have to rely on coverage to be able to do >70 to it (aka ko it after rocks); only indeedee out of the commonly used scarfers doesn't have to play yet another 50/50 to revenge it. contrast to say raichu, who gets blasted by knock and uturn and ghost stab and grass stab, so it's way more prone to being forced out in high stakes situations.
then ofc there's the offense mu where it just clicks all the buttons it wants to bc the only things that count as a switchin to sludge bomb + fire blast that actually fit on fast paced teams are like rhydon, scrafty and cb lax lol
and this doesn't even get into all the random utility and techs it can run, like sub making it even more ridiculously annoying to kill, knock removing boots/lefties from potential switchins and making them even more susceptible to being worn down / taken advantage by other teammates, or subdisable just being a general pain in the ass. at the end of the day, this thing is way too hard to kill for all the utility and speed and breaking power and cleaning ability it brings to a team vs any playstyle. remove it and never bring it back, thanks

:barraskewda: - something that bones offense and has limited but solid counterplay on balance that suddenly comes under scrutiny after a shift that makes balance ridiculously hard to run? sounds pretty familiar if you played sm after The Big Shift - zydog became a large object of discussion after offense became the de facto playstyle thanks to how hard it was to reasonably cover it without making yourself weak to something else. skewda has pretty much no permanent switchins on offense and does way too much damage for its onslaught to be sustained in most battles; you basically have to put a grass type and a cc/psyfangs resist and hope you read right more often than not. but vs bulkier squads it's a lot easier to manage simply bc it doesn't ohko half the team; even mons "weak" to it like muds and lix and what have you can take a hit and blow it back thanks to it's piss poor defenses. and to add to that, you can more easily fit stuff like bulky silv water, gastro, broken plume, qwil, etc. personally i wouldn't mind at all if this left bc it's an absolute nuisance to prep for, but i also think it'd be far easier to manage in a meta sans broken fires + raichu where builds are easier to diversify.

:raichu-alola: - people focus too much on np when assessing this thing imo when np isn't the actual problem. 4 atks volt is just way, way, way too free in any given matchup - you're always bloody terrified of bringing in your grounds because they all get popped by either gk or surf, but if you DON'T go to a ground and instead switch to a bulky mon that can actually take a hit or two like rajah, you run the risk of getting pivoted on and stuck in the vortex (or giving free turns to some other busted mon like centi or lazzle or tales or vani or bear or literally whatever suits your imagination.) not only that, but if you opt for double electric stab instead of two coverage moves, volting on all the bulky mons just sets up for your late game sweep that much easier cus you're getting hazard chip and not allowing the opp a chance to recover. 4 attacks is extremely problematic for both offense and bulkier squads thanks to all the pressure it puts on anything slower than it added to the support it provides to the myriad other breakers currently around; np is just icing on the cake. i was originally a bit on the fence about raichu, but after a lil deliberation i think id be more than fine with this taking its leave.

p.s.: something i just remembered to touch on with regards to lazzle is how stupidly restrictive it is to have to pack two completely separate fire resists to cover both tales and lazzle, since basically the only thing that covers both is lax and that is definitely not a mon you can just slap on every team. all the salazzle "stops" - jelli, rhydon, gastro, dred, rest scrafty, etc. get absolutely blown back by solar beam or just sheer power, and things like centi or turt that are decent tales answers can't stand up to toxic or lazzles secondary stab. personally i think the best answer to this conundrum is banning both of them bc they're both stupid as shit and tales is about to get a lot better if the speed tier decreases with skewda/lazzle/raichu out of the equation in combination with one less flash fire mon, but we can take it a step at a time - i know future meta speculation is frowned upon.
 
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Here are my 2 cents on the mons. Ima be quick and to the point with how I feel.

Centi: Honestly, annoyingly good, but I never had to much problems with it. Amazing coverage and amazing raw power, but being restricted to 1 item limits what it can do. It's slow and can easily be taken of in that sense. Yes, can be a prediction game, but honestly I think we need this mon around, as it keeps Ninetales in check (Not saying Tales is busted)

Indeedee: Bro this thing has got to go. wayy to restricting for team build, always need a good psychic check, which the steels while good, take damage from mystical fire, and usually don't have any form of recovery besides lefties, and a good spdef mon. Great speed tier at 95, making all below 95 scarfers far less valuable. Also puts up the terrain so priority is out the window with ways to revenge it. And then theres the specs set, which is legit baby lele with the amounts of damage it puts out. Yeah, I can tell this mon is a problem since I put it on most of my teams, and yeah, I think this is the most busted mon the tier has seen in a while, get this boy outa here pls.

Salazzle: Never ever had a problem with this thing, honestly I would rank it down if anything. I find myself never building with it, and never having problems against it. There's a plethora of checks in the tiers with the bulky waters and grounds, and ways of revenge killing it. Yes toxic is annoying, but that's really it. Keep Lazzle here

Barraskewda: I'm more on the fence, but ngl I want it gone. Its combination of speed, power, and coverage is insane + in a way is like Indeedee with how restricting it is to prep for. On every team I have to make sure I have a good psychic sponge + not even water resist, but Barra check. Water resists aren't enough for this thing as it can muscle past most, having Crunch for Jelli, Psy Fangs for Vile, and Gastro has a chance to be 2hko'd after rocks by ada CB CC. And that's not a ridiculous set either since its speed tier is so high. Honestly this is the second most broken mon in the tier after Indeedee, and I won't miss it if it leaves.

Alola-chu: Never had any problems with this, I've built around it, and it's a great mon. Not to overwhelming, and def not underwhelming, just a solid pick in the meta. Please let it stay.
 

EviGaro

is a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Simulator Driver
RU Leader
Hlelo, here are the results of the vote. Thanks to all that contributed and especially bkdrew and lighthouses for joining us as rotating council for this round of voting! Here are the results:

:ss/barraskewda: 6/11 ban
Ajna: barraskweda - no ban
this mon is absolutely fine for the meta. it’s a fun, fast breaker; it’s the literal definition of a glass cannon. lo is far to weak to warrant it being called unhealthy, and cb is incredibly prediction reliant. it has great defensive checks in mons like jellicent and vileplume, and decent offensive ones like scarf rilla, toxicroak, and whimsicott. pretty clear no ban for me.

atomicllamas: Barraskewda - Ban: Due to its high speed tier, unresisted coverage and great attack stat, Barraskewda simply puts too much strain on team building in the RU tier. Its counters are essentially limited to physically defensive Lanturn and Gastrodon, the former is prone to be worn down and difficult to fit onto teams further limiting the number of solid answers. With offensive teams you are required to dance around Barraskewda's attacks or sack a Pokémon in order to get your choice scarf/revenge killer in against Barraskewda. So, while Barraskewda is one of the faces of offense in the tier, I believe its presence actually constrains offensive builds in the tier too much.

Averardo: Barraskewda: Ban. With its crazy speed, attack and movepool, Barraskewda is one of the most threatning mon in the tier. Psychic Fang for Vileplume, Crunch for Jellicent, and a good spammable coverage in close combat, Barraskewda is almost impossible to switch into, putting massive pressure both on the builder and in battle. Its frail, but thats the deal with every glass cannon, and its not enough of an argument to keep it on the tier.

Bebo:(BAN) Barraskewda was kind of a sleeper Pokemon before the tier shifts happened. The main trigger that exposed its viability and power was the rise of Mantine, which was a very consistent check to its most powerful moves and was seen in almost all teams, being the second most used Pokémon in the first 3 weeks of RUPL. That made players realize how little defensive counterplay Barraskewda really has after Mantines departure, having few pokemon that can take a STAB Liquidation, and can usually be very weakened or KOed by Barraskewda coverage, such as Toxicroak, Vileplume, Jellicent, Virizion, and Gastrodon. It also boasts a amazing speed tier with its 136 Speed stat, that allows it to outspeed some of the fastest non boosted Pokemon this tier has to offer while running an Adamant Nature to improve its damage output even further with its near perfect coverage in Psychic Fangs, Close Combat, and Crunch. Barraskewda works best when supported by pivoting, which can be provided by tier staples such as Silvally forms, Xatu, Passimian and Vikavolt, which can give it momentum to come in for free on the field and wreak havoc on opposing teams. I find this mon too much for the tier to handle with its crazy speed and breaking power making it unhealthy for RarelyUsed.

bkdrew: Barraskewda: NO BAN Barraskewda's main issue right now is it's very hit or miss nature: it is the epitome of a glass cannon, it needs to kill what's in front of it or it can and will die. While it's hard answers are few, namely limited to Gastrodon and Lanturn, there's a lot of things that can take one hit then proceed to flatten Barraskewda. When you combine this with it's absolute inability to contribute to it's team's defensive backbone even in the slightest, you end up with a super-powerful but super-fragile glass Pokemon that can only afford to make plays a small handful of times in a given game. With this in mind, I don't believe Barraskewda is a problematic Pokemon right now.

EviGaro: Barraskewda: Ban: Barraskewda's counterplay involves so many guessing games that it's a bit difficult for me to see the positives it brings to the tier. While those guessing games can definitely be a two ways street as Barraskewda's bulk is completely non existent and a bad prediction can set it back significantly, its power and unmatched's speed gives you a lot more pressure to build against it. Additionally, its reliable answers are extremely passive, which is a very notable issue in a metagame that got a lot more fast paced with the newest shifts as the lynchpin of the tier moved away from Mantine balance to whatever this is that we have.

Feliburn: Barraskewda: Do Not Ban Now this one is interesting, ever since Barra dropped we all thought it was gonna be this broken fast breaker with few counters, even Mantine dropped to banded Double Edge, and now that Mantine is gone it can run other moves to not take recoil and increase its longevity. Surprisingly, on paper this mon did get better without Mantine but as usual, it falls short in practice. Jellicent becoming a very good water type in the tier and Gastrodon and Toxicroak rising in usage both put a stop to it and prevent it from spamming the Water Stab. It sounds like there's little counterplay to it but the meta is offensive enough to where it barely gets chances to be sent in. Personally voting not to ban it despite it being obvious this pokemon has gotten way better.

lighthouses: Barraskewda: ban
The tier is, arguably, currently limited to vileplume as the sole viable deffensive grass type option, with 3 water absorb mons in jellicent, gastro, and toxicroak; while it IS true that one is perfectly able to outplay skewda possesing one of those deffensive answers and a revenge killing option, the player using the fish will always be able to play more relaxed, while the one in the receiving end necessarily has to play much better to win completely independent of the quality of their team; I say this because the metagame simply lacks the tools for this to be mitigated in the teambuilder, our current list of mons isn't preppared to handle offensive waters at all, and one that is this fast is just too much.

MrAldo:<br />
Barraskewda: DO NOT BAN
This is where it gets tricky, I can see the arguments onto why this mon can be considered unhealthy and even somewhat busted but I personally dont see it right now. While it can be a pain to switch into I think it has provide good benefits in terms of building options. RU never had a mon that strong and fast at the same time and I think having a cleaner of that quality is good for offensive and balanced builds. Also, it is a mon that requires more conditioning than any of the mons in this slate, being a big glass cannon you really need to play it right cause if it miss a KO it is as good as gone and I think the tier can handle it if water resists werent so punished by many things right now. I think this one deserves another shot, I love having a naturally fast attacker that could fresh up building a bit and add speed and power on a tier that has pretty barren options besides niche stuff, kind like mega sceptile did past gen tbh. Having an option as a cleaner that doesnt need scarf to bring you speed is a really undervalued quality that easily outweight its potentially bad effect in the meta tbh. Do Not Ban, Id like to see more of barraskewda.

Odd Della Robbia: Barraskewda: Do not ban - The typical glass cannon mon, fish requires a lot of support from teammates clicking U-turn and Parting Shot to get opportunities to come in. It has a hard time clicking its water STABS in a tier with so many resists and immunities around. It wears itself down with life orb and hazards and is easy to force out with a scarf U-turn. I really don’t think this mon deserves a ban.

phantom: Barraskewda - Ban
It’s too easy to support with countermeasures being highly exploitable and limited. Fish only has one counter in the entire tier and enough coverage to 2HKO everything else. Even Gastrodon is forced to burn a turn if it comes in on a coverage move. In addition, Life Orb sets require proper guesswork in order to play around and oftentimes have the potential to cheese through counters with defense drops from Liquidation even if you do guess right. While its bulk holds it back, the tier isn’t lacking in pivots that can help it come in safely, and there isn’t a whole lot of mons capable of taking turns on it or forcing it out except on telegraphed revenge kill from scarfers, of which is easy to exploit.

:ss/centiskorch: 8/11 ban
Ajna: centiscorch - ban
this mon lacks any form of reliable, viable switch ins. couple this with its good bulk and decent speed tier and this mon feels like a very clear cut ban for me. it has perfect coverage between fire stab, power whip, and knock, and the mons that would be able to check it, like zard, are incredibly crippled by knock. i don’t see how this mon leads to a fun, playable meta.

atomicllamas: Centiskorch - Ban: Centiskorch is a Pokémon with basically no long term counterplay. The only Pokémon which don't take a lot of damage from Centiskorch's STAB moves or its coverage are Fire-types, which, outside of Rock Slide Charizard and Coalossal do not actually do enough damage back to cleanly counter Centi. Additionally, these Fire-types do not appreciate losing their item (typically Heavy-Duty Boots) which means that even if they can switch in and force it out once they cannot continually answer Centiskorch throughout a typical match. Teambuilding essentially revolves around making a team that does not give any free turns to Centiskorch, otherwise it can easily work its way in and start picking off your team, I do not believe that is healthy for the metagame.

Averardo: Centiskorch: Ban. Just like Barraskewda, Centiskorch has perfect coverage, making it impossible to switch into, and putting incredible pressure on the builder. Fire Lash is also a very brain-dead move, dropping the foe's defense of 1 stage, giving a massive advantage on the Centiskorch user. Its natural bulk and typing with Boots and a good ability in Flash Fire makes it almost impossible to wear down.

Bebo: (BAN) Centiskorch's success in RarelyUsed can be justified a lot by SS changes, specially the addition of Heavy Duty Boots, which allow it to come in to come into Stealth Rock with no drawbacks. This can be compared with Pokémon such as Charizard and Salazzle, which used to be deterred by keeping Stealth Rocks up, but another major change on the removal of Hidden Powers made checking those Fire-types way easier, which is not Centiskorch's case. It has really strong coverage in Knock Off and Power Whip, which can severely hinder the checking capabilities of other Fire-types such as Charizard and Coalossal and straight up beat other checks such as Jellicent and Rhydon. That can be also related to Mantine's rise, which could be a very solid spammable check to Centiskorch. Along with it's coverage, it boasts some of the best STAB moves its typing has to offer, with some form of recovery in Leech Life and arguably the best Physical Fire-type move, Fire Lash, which has extremely limited distribution and gives Centiskorch massive offensive capabilities with its 100% defense drop rate. Besides that, Centiskorch also has other movepool options such as Coil and Overheat to overcome specific situations. Defensively, Centiskorch offer useful resistances to Fighting, Grass, Ice, Steel, and a Fire immunity through Flash Fire, which boosts Centiskorch's Fire power even further. The common solution to disallow Centiskorch to switch into Pokémon it can regularly beat is to run Rock-type in Pokémon such as Silvally Steel/Fairy, Passimian, and Steelix. All that being said i believe centiskorch is too much for the tier and should be banned.

bkdrew: Centiskorch: BAN This thing has more or less zero defensive counterplay at the moment and I find building for it absolutely infuriating. A simple set of 4 attacks with Boots has zero switchins, since even the Fire-types that resist Bug/Fire/Grass hate having the Boots knocked off. While yes, it's fairly easy to revenge kill due to it's mediocre physical bulk, speed, and handful of common weaknesses, Centiskorch's ability to abuse it's Fire immunity, solid bulk, and good resistances to get on the field and create immediate results with little to no penalty push it over the edge.

EviGaro: Centiskorch: Do Not Ban: I actually don't see it with this mon. Yes, it's quite strong, albeit moreso because Fire Lash is a really really good stab, but it's very slow for this metagame and honestly the typing isn't particularly great either. While yes you see some overprep in terms of running rock slide on your Silvallys that are resisted by it, flying / water / rock weaknesses are terrible in this metagame, and Knock Off, while great on it, is also its worst nemesis. So, practically, Centiskorch doesn't win the matchup against any fire we have despite the flash fire ability, and all fighting types can easily wreck it. It's also falling prey to the fact that spikers are back in form, like Qwilfish and Garbodor, which can make it a bit of an hindrance since it really struggles to keep itself healthy enough and removal is really poor with it. Great overall mon, but it's definitely not the metagame restriction I see it made out to be for me.

Feliburn: Centiskorch: Ban Now finally the one mon I want gone, this mon has no guaranteed switchins beacuse it can just Knock Off all of them, or Fire Lash defense drop into Power Whip KO. It's really absurd because it has a good typing in Fire/Bug and with boots in this gen it really only has Knock Off to worry about. Decent bulk so it finds a lot of opportunities to switch in and Fire Lash always dropping defense means answers can't really take another hit safely after coming in. Basically everyone's trying to fit Rock Slide on every mon just to have somethin to KO it and even then it can switch out so easily cause of the boots. I feel like the tier would be better without it.

lighthouses: Centiskorch: ban
It can run one set(boots 4 atks) with the only choice in moveset being overheat or leech life. All of the deffensive answers for fire types in this tier can't switch into power whip at all, and in the rare case that they can(max def steelix, for example) a simple variation in the moveset can deal with it(overheat, in this example). I strongly believe that the mere presence of centis in this tier pushes it into a state where one must build heavy offense in order to be competitive, and while i think that offense is quite underexplored and has a lot of potential, im sure we can all agree that a single pokemon forcing one playstyle to be objectively better than all the others is an overbearing presence in the game, there is much precedent for this in past tiering decisions as well.

MrAldo: Centiskorch: BAN
An incredibly powerful fire type that we had an idea of what it was capable based on previous ru alpha experiences. Not much has changed since then, still a very constricting force that really warps teambuilding in a pretty uncomfortable way. Forcing rock slide on a bunch of mons, insane coverage for anything that tries to switch into to feel safe and in general thanks to its overall great bulk that isnt enough to avoid 2hkos but pretty hard to kill besides rock moves it is a mon that can trade with a lot of things in practice. And fire lash as the cherry of the cake punishing slower switch-ins lowering their defense. Between knock off, power whip, fire lash, and leech life or other type of coverage nothing really can switch in unharmed and we really lack defensive play against and versus offense it forces rather loopsided trade games... It is too much for the tier atm, who knows in the future but right now it has to go.

Odd Della Robbia: Centiskortch: Do not ban - I personally haven’t had issues dealing with this thing. It’s coverage is great but it’s held back by its low speed tier and lack of immediate power. A large portion of the metagame is able to outspeed and threaten it, preventing it from putting in the work it seems like it could do at team preview. It also can easily be worn down with various Rocky Helmet users, such Qwilfish and Weezing and lacks reliable recovery.

phantom: Centiskorch - Do not Ban
I’m not convinced that this needs to go quite yet. While Centiskorch has limited defensive counters, it’s still quite slow and easy to lure. I find that even against Pokemon like Vileplume, it isn’t guaranteed a safe switch in due to the threat of Sludge Bomb poison, whereas Pokemon like Ninetales can defeat it with boosted Psyshock. Its switch-in opportunities are surprisingly limited from my experience and can be narrowed down further in the builder despite its great special bulk, and even if it does manage to get in, there are a few Pokemon like Charizard, Coalossal, Passimian, etc that can switch in at least once and hold it off.

:ss/Indeedee: 6/11 no ban
Ajna: indeedee - no ban
specs indee is a very powerful breaker that is heavily prediction reliant. it has checks, but almost all of them are 2hko’d with the correct coverage move. is specs indee great? yes, but would i say too much for the tier? far from it. it finds difficulty getting breaking opportunities due to its lack of defensive utility. cm and scarf indee are both decemt sets, but they both lack the initial power that, in my opinion, indee most desperately needs.

atomicllamas: Indeedee-M - Do Not Ban: This is probably the one I'm most on the fence about. While Indeedee-M is very threatening, it is not as difficult to deal with as some of the other offensive threats on this slate. There are quite a few otherwise good Pokémon that check or counter Indeedee's sets (regardless of Indeedee's item) without any, or with only minor, changes. Wallbreaking sets can get past some of its usual answers but requires good prediction and solid maneuvering to do so, I don't think it's to the level where it is unhealthy. The Choice Scarf set is possibly the best cleaner in the tier, but, like other cleaners, it takes quite a bit of work in order to get it into position to clean, which again I do not believe is to the level of being unhealthy for RU. This one is basically on the fence for me, but since I am not sure I will vote to maintain status quo.

Averardo: Indeedee-M: No Ban. I didnt really know what to vote on this mon, and i still am. Indeedee is a very powerful breaker, but it is checked by many steel and dark types (which i think are good typings in general, and not only cause you have to use them to check Indeedee) like Copperajah, Steelix, Silvally Steel, Malamar, Scrafty, Sableye ecc. and the tier just got faster with new good drops like Morpeko, Virizion and Rapidash. As for now, my vote is no ban.

Bebo: (NO BAN) Indeedee was considered by many a clear contender for a suspect test before the tier shift, being a superior version of its female counterpart due to increased Special Attack and Speed stats, that made it a huge threat due to a good speed tier and Psychic Terrain-boosted STAB attacks, which were considered by many overwhelming to handle when paired with a Choice Specs, or hard to revenge kill which a Choice Scarf. However, after the metagame settled, it could be clear that teams adapted to check it consistently with Pokemon that can accomodate multiple roles, such as Steelix, Scrafty, Silvally Dark and Steel, Copperajah, and even some unresisted foes, such as Coalossal, Xatu, and Mantine. While the latter rose to UU, its clear how many metagame staples can provide defensive utility against it and check Indeedee consistently. Despite having good coverage in moves such as Dazzling Gleam, Mystical Fire, Hyper Voice and Trick, Indeedee can be considered an underwhelming Pokemon when forced to click anything thats not a STAB move, and being almost always locked into a move contributes a lot to pivoting around it. It also sits on a good speed tier, but is stuck on the same speed tier as a omnipresent threat that is Silvally for not Scarf sets, while also getting outsped by common threats such as Charizard, Scarf Passimian, Salazzle, Virizion and Togedemaru, while Scarf sets are much easier to check. It's also a pretty frail Pokemon, meaning it usually cant get on the field without pivoting, and its generally a much more easier Pokemon to switch into than Barraskewda, for example.

bkdrew: Indeedee: BAN This thing has been a force of nature since the moment it dropped to the tier. Scarf sets have been incredible revenge killers due to their powerful Psychics, and Specs sets can level entire teams with a little prediction. While in recent times our metagame has adapted with ways to handle Indeedee with increased Dark-type usage and things like AV Copperajah, I believe these are more products of people panic-building them with an "I need to not get trucked by the magic rabbit" mindset, which isn't great. The mere presence of Indeedee absolutely mandates every single team have at least two Pokemon that aren't mauled by Psychic, and it's few defensive answers simply get Tricked. Something as small as the difference between running Specs or Scarf completely changes how you play against Indeedee, and expecting one variant and getting the other can put a player at a near-insurmountable disadvantage quite fast. Toss on top of the pile an immunity to priority and the excellent base 95 speed tier, and I believe Indeedee is just a bit too much right now.

EviGaro: Indeedee - M: Ban: This mon is nuts honestly, Psychic Terrain is just ridiculous to set up free as not only does it mean you basically need an immunity on any team - and dark types while good are really not that spammable - but it also means that all your frail offensive mons that would be picked off by priority are far more restrictive for offence to prep against. Bulky Psychics that are getting more popular against it, like Xatu / Claydol / even Musharna lol, are easily 2hkoed by Specs Hyper Voice, and obviously darks need to watch out for Dazzling Gleam. While it's not as overbearing as the Specs set, Scarf Indeedee got a lot better with the shifts too, as it basically abuses the faster offensive meta by being maybe the second fastest good scarfer but also one that completely picks off any offensive mon really easily, which something like Togedemaru can't really quite do. To me Indeedee has no real bad matchup, and it makes building a lot more of a chore than any mon on this slate.

Feliburn: Indeedee: Do Not Ban 2 weeks ago I definitely thought of this mon as something that should have been banned, it was simply dumb. Specs sets had 0 switchins whatsoever. Now with drops it kinda suffered the same as Raichu except worse because of its lower speed: Meta becomes more offensive, giving it less chances to come in freely and the addition of checks like Persian Alola, Claydol and the rise of Xatu really have reduced the annoyance of this pokemon. Similar to Raichu, I think it's a very solid mon but it has considerably dropped in terms of being broken.

lighthouses: Indeedee-M: ban
I debated a lot over this one, and im honestly not 100% sure that this mon is broken, however, i also don't see much of a reason for it to be kept in the tier either. Every defensive utility provided by this can be done by its female counterpart and i feel like offensive calm mind sets in particular are extremely overbearing on the teambuilding side of things, whereas indee-f has a much worse speed tier(slower than silvally being crucial in my opinion). If the goal is to better the current metagame then i don't see why indee-M should be kept around.

MrAldo: Indeedee-M: DO NOT BAN
Mmm, this one is tricky. While I dont agree with the notion 100%, I can see why this would on the slate. I dont think RU ever had a mon like this that conditioned the game like that. Psychic terrain is a terrain with really incredible effects, disrupting priority as an option to handle things is huge and powering up psychic moves is always fun and all but while it is a mon that can wear down its own checks I do believe it isnt broken, arguably unhealthy, but I think the meta has done a pretty good job at keeping it at bay pre-drops. With the most recent metagame shift the overall speed tier of the metagame has increased. Before, 95 was an outspeeding speed tier to reach only being overthrown by a select group of mons but now there are more stuff like Virizion and others that break the standard and get better due to the nature of the metagame. Steels are good in general and so are other psychics and darks are find their place a lot more easily on the metagame. I believe this mon is manageable without other stuff into consideration, cause it can backfire if you face a raichu-alola using this mon and what not. I dont think this mon is the responsible for the constricting effect, I simply do not see it right now and I would have to see it on his own to even be into a discussion for me. Do Not Ban.

Odd Della Robbia: Indeedee: Ban - Indeedee puts too much strain on players in the teambuilder and in practice. The lack of viable spdef steel and dark types in the tier and the removal of Pursuit make it difficult to punish Indeedee clicking terrain boosted psychic attacks, and indeedee can punch through these checks on its own with fire and fairy coverage with good prediction. Hyper voice works as a safe midground as well for reliable damage on bulky dark and psychic types trying to switch in, making safe switchins extremely scarce barring perfect prediction.

phantom: Indeedee-M - Ban
Indeedee is ridiculous in how it’s able to just click its stabs and nothing else in most games and still make headway into the match. Special Psychic resists aren’t exactly great, and the few that are around are usually slow and easy to wear down, making it especially difficult to manage. In addition, it’s great coverage allows it to more than easily subdue individual checks. There have been a rise in Dark-types in the tier to prevent it from spamming Psychic, but pretty much all of them drop with a single hit from Dazzling Gleam and many of them aren’t exactly the best Pokemon on their own. I think the fact that it can break through its own counters with little support in addition to sitting atop a great speed tier makes it too much for the tier.

:ss/raichu-alola: 8/11 no ban
Ajna: raichu-alola - no ban
on paper this mon has no switchins and can be a great breaker and cleaner; i’m simply voting no ban because i haven’t seen raichu actually do this in practice. raichu is again incredibly frail with very limited defensive utility, and that is the main reason, why at this time, im voting no ban. i’d just like to see how this mon performs in practice before giving him the boot.

atomicllamas: Raichu-Alola - Do Not Ban: I actually totally get why this was nominated, as it is essentially Barraskewda lite. Unlike Barraskewda though, it does not hit quite hard enough to slice through offensive teams the same way. Additionally the difference in speed is quite significant as there is a very good Pokémon that is faster than Raichu that is not faster than Barraskewda, and several other solid offensive Pokémon in that range as well that can check Raichu pretty well. I may not have quite enough experience with this one, so I would not be opposed to revisiting it in the future.

Averardo: Raichu-Alola: Ban. This Pokèmon is impossible to switch into, having perfect coverage for everything in the tier. Surf, Psychic / Psyshock, Thunderbolt, Grass Knot, Focus Blast, it has them all. This plus the incredible speed tie makes me think it is not healthy for the tier.

Bebo: (NO BAN) Raichu-Alola can have the same strong traits it had in SM, such as a great boosting move in Nasty Plot, a great STAB combination with good coverage moves such as Focus Blast, Surf, and Grass Knot, and even access to pivoting in Volt Switch and Teleport. However, it suffers from the same issues it used to: It's poor bulk and defensive typing makes hard for it to switch into basically anything, which also makes it have little room to set up in many games and situations. Raichu's typing also makes it very susceptible to revenge killing from likes of Scarf Rillaboom, Passimian, Togedemaru and Rotom.

bkdrew: Alolan Raichu: NO BAN To put it bluntly, I don't think this thing is too problematic. I think it absolutely could possibly have the potential to become that way, but right now, it really just isn't. Having to choose your coverage means something is always going to wall you, an issue exacerbated if you choose to go with the Nasty Plot set. 4 attacks has become the default det, and while this creates great momentum with it's powerful Volt Switches and ability to trash usual answers to VoltTurn cores like Steelix and Gastrodon with your choice of coverage, the 4MSS and frailty of Alolan Raichu keep it in check pretty well right now.

EviGaro: Raichu-Alola: Do Not Ban: actually a bit of a similar case to Indeedee, it's a really good psychic type with incredible covering. Volt Switch is also incredible on momentum based teams and makes it an amazing pivot on top of a quite stressful breaker. That being said... it's really not that strong, and its completely cut off by Uturn from scarfers. While Indeedee can turn that on the offence matchup with the scarf set, Raichu is either great or a potential hurdle for your team. Its reliance on Life Orb to pick up the kos it needs is also an annoyance, as spikes + rocks adds on fast when it always needs at least two hits to kill something. Love the mon though, definitely a great addition to the meta.

Feliburn: Alolan Raichu: Do Not Ban On paper, Raichu seemed like one of the best breakers in the tier due to the fact that its coverage, raw power and speed were all great, be it 4 attacks or Nasty Plot sets. However the meta hasn't been too kind for it since pokemon such as Togedemaru, Scrafty, Copperajah and even Gastrodon are rising in usage and all work as good answers to Raichu. Also considering the meta is becoming more offensive rlly does not help a pokemon like Raichu considering how frail it is and how easy it is to force it out, being a Psychic type making it weak to the most spammable move by all of our scarfers. I do think this mon is incredibly good but I really don't think it's ban worthy.

lighthouses: Raichu-Alola: ban
If the raichu user is using Life Orb with volt switch, psyshock, grass knot and surf, there is nothing you can do deffensively. It straight up ohkoes any and all electric immunities that try to block it from volt switching and does heavy damage to everything else with volt completely freely, seeing as how it doesn't need to fear pursuit. I honestly think that this is the same situation as centis but amplified to an extent, if the opponent is using raichu and you arent, then you automatically must play MUCH better than your opponent, a lot more than what can be considered reasonable; common counter play to offensive electrics wont apply because as mentioned prior, it just ohkoes the volt immunities. If we are considering a setting where the players are competitive and 100% commited to winning, and the metagame has a pokemon that will automatically shift any matchups to your favor, then the only logic point of development for such a meta would be for raichu to be used on every single team, which should be avoided.

MrAldo: Raichu-Alola: BAN
As the one responsible for nominating this mon, I do have very honest reasoning into why I think this mon is a tad too much at the moment in my eyes. Absolutely insane coverage options which means safe switch-ins to this creature can be counted with one hand, and a good amount are incredibly niche. Like for real: Volt Switch, Grass Knot, Surf, Psyshock gives you more than enough to hit over 90% of the tier on its own, and whatever isnt gets volt switched on forcing you to lose a lot of momentum making raichu-a be on the wheel way too easily, basically risk free since there is no pursuit as an excuse to balance it. Excellent speed tier which is way above the average and atm, while a cool addition, is just another humongous threat that just doesnt help the tier in trying to like keep it balanced tbh, defensive counterplay is already hard enough. If it end up banned Id love to revisit this but right now is not I like seeing around and punishing teams just by pressing buttons, kinda like centi but faster and a lot frailer I guess? Yeah no. If with had pursuit... but we dont so Ban.

Odd Della Robbia: Raichu-Alola: Do not ban - I was very torn about this one but ultimately decided no ban for a lot of the same reasons as Barraskewda. It has great coverage but has a hard time finding opportunities to come in, and it often doesn’t even run nasty plot since it finds so few opportunities to use it. I’ll vote no ban for now as I want to see more of the impact it has on the tier, and I wouldn’t be opposed to revisiting this one in the future.

phantom: Raichu-Alola - Do not Ban
Raichu just doesn’t have the raw power to make it worthy of a ban. While its coverage is obviously great, it relies solely on that in order to get its kills, and even then it’s lacking to an extent when certain Pokemon like Scrafty, Drampa, Copperajah, Ferroseed, etc can still switch into it a few times and hold it back. Its 1v1 mus tends to be terrible as well and relegates it to cleaning roles as opposed to breaking, Nasty Plot sets alleviate the issue that all-out attack sets have, but just getting Raichu in requires support much less getting another turn to help it set up, and even then the coverage is lacking. While it is obviously a great mon, I think the lack of switch-in opportunities, power, and presence of perfectly viable checks makes it more than manageable.

:ss/Salazzle: 6/11 no ban
Ajna: salazzle - no ban
salazzle is an incredibly good mon, and it got better with the addition of boots… i’d even argue it’s the best mon in the tier, but at the same time, i don’t think it’s unhealthy. salazzle has solid defensive checks like rhydon, jellicent, and snorlax, but what separates it from the likes of barra is its lack of offensive checks, it’s ability to be a good scarfer, and corrosion toxic. even with all these things in mind, i think that the tier is able to handle salazzle quite proficiently, even if a well played salazzle has the potential of breaking down any team long term.

atomicllamas: Salazzle - Do Not Ban: While Salazzle is certainly one of the best Pokémon in the tier due to its nice STAB combination and its ability to poison every Pokémon in the tier, it still has several counters / very hard checks in the tier. Defensively oriented teams may require more than one slot to fully counter Salazzle (traditional counter + aromatherapy user), but those teams are capable of building for threats like that regardless. Offensive teams typically must pack one solid check and a different Pokémon that can outspeed and KO Salazzle, but those are also things that can fit on traditional offensive builds pretty easily. At this point I do not believe that this needs to be banned.

Averardo: Salazzle: Ban. Salazzle has a great speed tie, a great typing and great utility moves. The stabs themself are alredy very hard to switch into, and this + its great and spammable Toxic and great utility moves like Knock Off and Encore makes it hard to find reliable switchins. Nasty Plot sets are also still very powerfull, making it a great breaker. Overall, i think this Pokèmon isnt healthy for the tier.

Bebo: (BAN) Salazzle was one of the most powerful Pokemon in SM, and it's no different now in SS. Salazzle can be considered the premier special attacker of the tier, with its great offensive set, with Nasty Plot, Fire Blast and Sludge Wave, and the addition of Heavy Duty Boots only make Salazzle stronger, since it can switch in more freely into hazards. SS made Salazzle lose useful coverage in Hidden Power, but it was quickly aided by running Toxic, which can worn down all of Salazzle's common checks as it switches in and out to force them into the field, such as Rhydon, Coalossal, Jellicent, Gastrodon, being mostly a no-risk move since it will poison any Pokemon independent of their typing, due to Corrosion. It also benefitted directly from the departure of Mantine, which was a common countermeasure to both Nasty Plot and Choice Scarf sets. Otherwise, it's still the powerful speed demon it used to be, but its overwhelming for all of its potential checks due to SS changes and I consider it a unhealthy part of the metagame.

bkdrew: Salazzle: BAN Heavy-Duty Boots taking the place of Poisonium Z in the generational shift means that the best way of pressuring Salazzle, residual damage through Stealth Rock, is now a nonfactor. Combine this with the now-always used Corrosion Toxic, which can completely invalidate any defensive answer. Compounding this were the losses of Mantine, Goodra, and Gigalith over the past month and a half, all Pokemon that Salazzle despised. There's a relatively small pool of Pokemon that don't really fear Salazzle's STAB combination, and while some of them are downright clunky to try to fit on teams, they all suffer a Toxic on switch-in. I've gone this far without mentioning the hellish sight of ProTox Salazzle, which can be nothing short of demonic for any team lacking a fast Earthquake or Rock Blast user to deal with. These two main sets, both with their different answers, combine with Salazzle's trademark Corrosion Toxic, blazing speed, excellent STAB combination, and Stealth Rock immunity as long as it has timbs to create a very unhealthy Pokemon for the meta right now.

EviGaro: Salazzle: Do Not Ban: actually torn on this but for w/e reasons building against this has felt a lot easier recently. Sure, Knock Toxic is a ridiculous combo on it, it's extremely fast and has amazing coverage simply with its stabs, but it's incredibly frail and struggles successfully to setup even with boots. The protect sets are annoying but not extremely egregious to deal with. I think it's incredible, as it always was in RU, but it's probably the mon I want to see suspected the most on this list. While we know what it does I think its role is probably the one that can be adjusted more to the overall metagame, and I'd like to see where we are with it and less nonsensical mons in the near future if possible.

Feliburn: Salazzle: Do Not Ban I really don't think this mons broken at all. It's been doing the same thing since the gen started, spam corrosion toxic and switch out. There are plenty of pokemon that handle this mon, the annoying part is the toxic chip but that's been the case since alpha where we even had Gigalith and it always got chipped down without ever damaging Lazzle. Mantine leaving means another mon gone that can switch in to its stabs but I think more diverse options like Snorlax, Rhydon, Gastrodon, Jellicent, Coalossal, etc all can do that p easily, not to mention the offensive threats that force it to switch out like Barraskewda or the rising Boltund (it's getting good I promise).

lighthouses: Salazzle: no ban
Salazzle has very hard checks in corsola, jellicent, gastrodon, rhydon, coalossal and an extremely hard counter in snorlax. It can run toxic to get past its checks but not in an overwhelming manner where it gets the toxic off and the next time it comes in, it threatens a KO. The salazzle user has to both: Use a good, functional team to support it, and also play well in order to get past its checks(unlike other pokemon currently being voted on); A lot of the pokemon i listed as answers are able to take on salazzle for a reasonable amount of time even after being toxiced, with jellicent and gastro in particular taking very little from its attacks, and rhydon being often seen in more offensively inclined teams. The fact that salazzle can be handled by combinations of mons that are perfectly good in the tier(deffensive answers listed above and revenge killers like pass and rillaboom etc all being able to revenge kill) leads me to believe that, while it probably is the best offensive mon in the tier(bar the others being voted on), it's not unfair.

MrAldo: Salazzle: BAN
This mon is toxic as heck... literally and figuratively. This mon certainly doesnt have the coverage that another drops have but the worse of all of this she doesnt need it at all. Id call this mon a bully, especially for anything that is slower. The introduction of heavy duty boots made with this mon an absolute nightmare cause many of the ways you could diminish salazzle risk value was by wearing her down with your hazard of choice (besides tspikes ofc) but now in this gen she takes full advantage of this item. Immune to rocks so it can come up any time without taking any sort of effect of hazards. Corrosion toxic which means it is the easiest toxic to use ever, no risk involved and between knock off, disable, encore and what not it has all the tools to outlast all of its checks during a whole match. Against offense the 2 stabs move and speed tier are sufficient enough to make it a menace that will not be useless at any point. In the end Salazzle causes this loopsided effect where defensive stuff just feels really unreliable (it is a combination of factors but I think Salazzle is one of the main culprits of this) and I dont think it is a good idea to keep something like that around on a meta that wants to develop. Ban.

Odd Della Robbia: Salazzle: Do not ban - Salazzle heavily depends on toxic to get past its checks and counters. While it’s true that almost nothing is safe from a corrosion toxic, I don’t believe this trait makes Salazzle banworthy. Most scarfers are able to reliably revenge kill it and solid fire resists are a standard on any team.

phantom: Salazzle - Ban
I definitely would like to revisit this mon at some point, but for now it has to go. Salazzle is weird in that despite the fact that it has a decent number of checks, it’s capable of breaking down just about all of them on its own. Offensive mons crippling their counters with toxic isn’t anything new, but Salazzle takes it a step further by being able to threaten anything capable of sponging the status. Additionally, despite its poor bulk, its typing alongside Heavy Duty Boots lets it switch in plenty of times and take turns on a number of prominent Pokemon such as Vileplume, Aromatisse, and Weezing. Salazzle doesn’t necessarily have to sweep itself to put in work, but its ability to effortlessly dismantle defensive cores and still have the offensive presence necessary to pull its weight in other matches makes it a little too good.

After quite the thrilling weekend, Barraskewda and Centiskorch are now banned from the RU tier while Indeedee-M, Raichu-Alola and Salazzle stay RU. Tagging The Immortal and Marty to remove them from the ladder, thank you!
 
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Hlelo, here are the results of the vote. Thanks to all that contributed and especially bkdrew and lighthouses for joining us as rotating council for this round of voting! Here are the results:

:ss/barraskewda: 6/11 ban
Ajna: barraskweda - no ban
this mon is absolutely fine for the meta. it’s a fun, fast breaker; it’s the literal definition of a glass cannon. lo is far to weak to warrant it being called unhealthy, and cb is incredibly prediction reliant. it has great defensive checks in mons like jellicent and vileplume, and decent offensive ones like scarf rilla, toxicroak, and whimsicott. pretty clear no ban for me.

atomicllamas: Barraskewda - Ban: Due to its high speed tier, unresisted coverage and great attack stat, Barraskewda simply puts too much strain on team building in the RU tier. Its counters are essentially limited to physically defensive Lanturn and Gastrodon, the former is prone to be worn down and difficult to fit onto teams further limiting the number of solid answers. With offensive teams you are required to dance around Barraskewda's attacks or sack a Pokémon in order to get your choice scarf/revenge killer in against Barraskewda. So, while Barraskewda is one of the faces of offense in the tier, I believe its presence actually constrains offensive builds in the tier too much.

Averardo: Goodra: Barraskewda: Ban. With its crazy speed, attack and movepool, Barraskewda is one of the most threatning mon in the tier. Psychic Fang for Vileplume, Crunch for Jellicent, and a good spammable coverage in close combat, Barraskewda is almost impossible to switch into, putting massive pressure both on the builder and in battle. Its frail, but thats the deal with every glass cannon, and its not enough of an argument to keep it on the tier.

Bebo:(BAN) Barraskewda was kind of a sleeper Pokemon before the tier shifts happened. The main trigger that exposed its viability and power was the rise of Mantine, which was a very consistent check to its most powerful moves and was seen in almost all teams, being the second most used Pokémon in the first 3 weeks of RUPL. That made players realize how little defensive counterplay Barraskewda really has after Mantines departure, having few pokemon that can take a STAB Liquidation, and can usually be very weakened or KOed by Barraskewda coverage, such as Toxicroak, Vileplume, Jellicent, Virizion, and Gastrodon. It also boasts a amazing speed tier with its 136 Speed stat, that allows it to outspeed some of the fastest non boosted Pokemon this tier has to offer while running an Adamant Nature to improve its damage output even further with its near perfect coverage in Psychic Fangs, Close Combat, and Crunch. Barraskewda works best when supported by pivoting, which can be provided by tier staples such as Silvally forms, Xatu, Passimian and Vikavolt, which can give it momentum to come in for free on the field and wreak havoc on opposing teams. I find this mon too much for the tier to handle with its crazy speed and breaking power making it unhealthy for RarelyUsed.

bkdrew: Barraskewda: NO BAN Barraskewda's main issue right now is it's very hit or miss nature: it is the epitome of a glass cannon, it needs to kill what's in front of it or it can and will die. While it's hard answers are few, namely limited to Gastrodon and Lanturn, there's a lot of things that can take one hit then proceed to flatten Barraskewda. When you combine this with it's absolute inability to contribute to it's team's defensive backbone even in the slightest, you end up with a super-powerful but super-fragile glass Pokemon that can only afford to make plays a small handful of times in a given game. With this in mind, I don't believe Barraskewda is a problematic Pokemon right now.

EviGaro: Barraskewda: Ban: Barraskewda's counterplay involves so many guessing games that it's a bit difficult for me to see the positives it brings to the tier. While those guessing games can definitely be a two ways street as Barraskewda's bulk is completely non existent and a bad prediction can set it back significantly, its power and unmatched's speed gives you a lot more pressure to build against it. Additionally, its reliable answers are extremely passive, which is a very notable issue in a metagame that got a lot more fast paced with the newest shifts as the lynchpin of the tier moved away from Mantine balance to whatever this is that we have.

Feliburn: Barraskewda: Do Not Ban Now this one is interesting, ever since Barra dropped we all thought it was gonna be this broken fast breaker with few counters, even Mantine dropped to banded Double Edge, and now that Mantine is gone it can run other moves to not take recoil and increase its longevity. Surprisingly, on paper this mon did get better without Mantine but as usual, it falls short in practice. Jellicent becoming a very good water type in the tier and Gastrodon and Toxicroak rising in usage both put a stop to it and prevent it from spamming the Water Stab. It sounds like there's little counterplay to it but the meta is offensive enough to where it barely gets chances to be sent in. Personally voting not to ban it despite it being obvious this pokemon has gotten way better.

lighthouses: Barraskewda: ban
The tier is, arguably, currently limited to vileplume as the sole viable deffensive grass type option, with 3 water absorb mons in jellicent, gastro, and toxicroak; while it IS true that one is perfectly able to outplay skewda possesing one of those deffensive answers and a revenge killing option, the player using the fish will always be able to play more relaxed, while the one in the receiving end necessarily has to play much better to win completely independent of the quality of their team; I say this because the metagame simply lacks the tools for this to be mitigated in the teambuilder, our current list of mons isn't preppared to handle offensive waters at all, and one that is this fast is just too much.

MrAldo:
Barraskewda: DO NOT BAN
This is where it gets tricky, I can see the arguments onto why this mon can be considered unhealthy and even somewhat busted but I personally dont see it right now. While it can be a pain to switch into I think it has provide good benefits in terms of building options. RU never had a mon that strong and fast at the same time and I think having a cleaner of that quality is good for offensive and balanced builds. Also, it is a mon that requires more conditioning than any of the mons in this slate, being a big glass cannon you really need to play it right cause if it miss a KO it is as good as gone and I think the tier can handle it if water resists werent so punished by many things right now. I think this one deserves another shot, I love having a naturally fast attacker that could fresh up building a bit and add speed and power on a tier that has pretty barren options besides niche stuff, kind like mega sceptile did past gen tbh. Having an option as a cleaner that doesnt need scarf to bring you speed is a really undervalued quality that easily outweight its potentially bad effect in the meta tbh. Do Not Ban, Id like to see more of barraskewda.

Odd Della Robbia: Barraskewda: Do not ban - The typical glass cannon mon, fish requires a lot of support from teammates clicking U-turn and Parting Shot to get opportunities to come in. It has a hard time clicking its water STABS in a tier with so many resists and immunities around. It wears itself down with life orb and hazards and is easy to force out with a scarf U-turn. I really don’t think this mon deserves a ban.

phantom: Barraskewda - Ban
It’s too easy to support with countermeasures being highly exploitable and limited. Fish only has one counter in the entire tier and enough coverage to 2HKO everything else. Even Gastrodon is forced to burn a turn if it comes in on a coverage move. In addition, Life Orb sets require proper guesswork in order to play around and oftentimes have the potential to cheese through counters with defense drops from Liquidation even if you do guess right. While its bulk holds it back, the tier isn’t lacking in pivots that can help it come in safely, and there isn’t a whole lot of mons capable of taking turns on it or forcing it out except on telegraphed revenge kill from scarfers, of which is easy to exploit.

:ss/centiskorch: 8/11 ban
Ajna: centiscorch - ban
this mon lacks any form of reliable, viable switch ins. couple this with its good bulk and decent speed tier and this mon feels like a very clear cut ban for me. it has perfect coverage between fire stab, power whip, and knock, and the mons that would be able to check it, like zard, are incredibly crippled by knock. i don’t see how this mon leads to a fun, playable meta.

atomicllamas: Centiskorch - Ban: Centiskorch is a Pokémon with basically no long term counterplay. The only Pokémon which don't take a lot of damage from Centiskorch's STAB moves or its coverage are Fire-types, which, outside of Rock Slide Charizard and Coalossal do not actually do enough damage back to cleanly counter Centi. Additionally, these Fire-types do not appreciate losing their item (typically Heavy-Duty Boots) which means that even if they can switch in and force it out once they cannot continually answer Centiskorch throughout a typical match. Teambuilding essentially revolves around making a team that does not give any free turns to Centiskorch, otherwise it can easily work its way in and start picking off your team, I do not believe that is healthy for the metagame.

Averardo: Centiskorch: Ban. Just like Barraskewda, Centiskorch has perfect coverage, making it impossible to switch into, and putting incredible pressure on the builder. Fire Lash is also a very brain-dead move, dropping the foe's defense of 1 stage, giving a massive advantage on the Centiskorch user. Its natural bulk and typing with Boots and a good ability in Flash Fire makes it almost impossible to wear down.

Bebo: (BAN) Centiskorch's success in RarelyUsed can be justified a lot by SS changes, specially the addition of Heavy Duty Boots, which allow it to come in to come into Stealth Rock with no drawbacks. This can be compared with Pokémon such as Charizard and Salazzle, which used to be deterred by keeping Stealth Rocks up, but another major change on the removal of Hidden Powers made checking those Fire-types way easier, which is not Centiskorch's case. It has really strong coverage in Knock Off and Power Whip, which can severely hinder the checking capabilities of other Fire-types such as Charizard and Coalossal and straight up beat other checks such as Jellicent and Rhydon. That can be also related to Mantine's rise, which could be a very solid spammable check to Centiskorch. Along with it's coverage, it boasts some of the best STAB moves its typing has to offer, with some form of recovery in Leech Life and arguably the best Physical Fire-type move, Fire Lash, which has extremely limited distribution and gives Centiskorch massive offensive capabilities with its 100% defense drop rate. Besides that, Centiskorch also has other movepool options such as Coil and Overheat to overcome specific situations. Defensively, Centiskorch offer useful resistances to Fighting, Grass, Ice, Steel, and a Fire immunity through Flash Fire, which boosts Centiskorch's Fire power even further. The common solution to disallow Centiskorch to switch into Pokémon it can regularly beat is to run Rock-type in Pokémon such as Silvally Steel/Fairy, Passimian, and Steelix. All that being said i believe centiskorch is too much for the tier and should be banned.

bkdrew: Centiskorch: BAN This thing has more or less zero defensive counterplay at the moment and I find building for it absolutely infuriating. A simple set of 4 attacks with Boots has zero switchins, since even the Fire-types that resist Bug/Fire/Grass hate having the Boots knocked off. While yes, it's fairly easy to revenge kill due to it's mediocre physical bulk, speed, and handful of common weaknesses, Centiskorch's ability to abuse it's Fire immunity, solid bulk, and good resistances to get on the field and create immediate results with little to no penalty push it over the edge.

EviGaro: Centiskorch: Do Not Ban: I actually don't see it with this mon. Yes, it's quite strong, albeit moreso because Fire Lash is a really really good stab, but it's very slow for this metagame and honestly the typing isn't particularly great either. While yes you see some overprep in terms of running rock slide on your Silvallys that are resisted by it, flying / water / rock weaknesses are terrible in this metagame, and Knock Off, while great on it, is also its worst nemesis. So, practically, Centiskorch doesn't win the matchup against any fire we have despite the flash fire ability, and all fighting types can easily wreck it. It's also falling prey to the fact that spikers are back in form, like Qwilfish and Garbodor, which can make it a bit of an hindrance since it really struggles to keep itself healthy enough and removal is really poor with it. Great overall mon, but it's definitely not the metagame restriction I see it made out to be for me.

Feliburn: Centiskorch: Ban Now finally the one mon I want gone, this mon has no guaranteed switchins beacuse it can just Knock Off all of them, or Fire Lash defense drop into Power Whip KO. It's really absurd because it has a good typing in Fire/Bug and with boots in this gen it really only has Knock Off to worry about. Decent bulk so it finds a lot of opportunities to switch in and Fire Lash always dropping defense means answers can't really take another hit safely after coming in. Basically everyone's trying to fit Rock Slide on every mon just to have somethin to KO it and even then it can switch out so easily cause of the boots. I feel like the tier would be better without it.

lighthouses: Centiskorch: ban
It can run one set(boots 4 atks) with the only choice in moveset being overheat or leech life. All of the deffensive answers for fire types in this tier can't switch into power whip at all, and in the rare case that they can(max def steelix, for example) a simple variation in the moveset can deal with it(overheat, in this example). I strongly believe that the mere presence of centis in this tier pushes it into a state where one must build heavy offense in order to be competitive, and while i think that offense is quite underexplored and has a lot of potential, im sure we can all agree that a single pokemon forcing one playstyle to be objectively better than all the others is an overbearing presence in the game, there is much precedent for this in past tiering decisions as well.

MrAldo: Centiskorch: BAN
An incredibly powerful fire type that we had an idea of what it was capable based on previous ru alpha experiences. Not much has changed since then, still a very constricting force that really warps teambuilding in a pretty uncomfortable way. Forcing rock slide on a bunch of mons, insane coverage for anything that tries to switch into to feel safe and in general thanks to its overall great bulk that isnt enough to avoid 2hkos but pretty hard to kill besides rock moves it is a mon that can trade with a lot of things in practice. And fire lash as the cherry of the cake punishing slower switch-ins lowering their defense. Between knock off, power whip, fire lash, and leech life or other type of coverage nothing really can switch in unharmed and we really lack defensive play against and versus offense it forces rather loopsided trade games... It is too much for the tier atm, who knows in the future but right now it has to go.

Odd Della Robbia: Centiskortch: Do not ban - I personally haven’t had issues dealing with this thing. It’s coverage is great but it’s held back by its low speed tier and lack of immediate power. A large portion of the metagame is able to outspeed and threaten it, preventing it from putting in the work it seems like it could do at team preview. It also can easily be worn down with various Rocky Helmet users, such Qwilfish and Weezing and lacks reliable recovery.

phantom: Centiskorch - Do not Ban
I’m not convinced that this needs to go quite yet. While Centiskorch has limited defensive counters, it’s still quite slow and easy to lure. I find that even against Pokemon like Vileplume, it isn’t guaranteed a safe switch in due to the threat of Sludge Bomb poison, whereas Pokemon like Ninetales can defeat it with boosted Psyshock. Its switch-in opportunities are surprisingly limited from my experience and can be narrowed down further in the builder despite its great special bulk, and even if it does manage to get in, there are a few Pokemon like Charizard, Coalossal, Passimian, etc that can switch in at least once and hold it off.

:ss/Indeedee: 6/11 no ban
Ajna: indeedee - no ban
specs indee is a very powerful breaker that is heavily prediction reliant. it has checks, but almost all of them are 2hko’d with the correct coverage move. is specs indee great? yes, but would i say too much for the tier? far from it. it finds difficulty getting breaking opportunities due to its lack of defensive utility. cm and scarf indee are both decemt sets, but they both lack the initial power that, in my opinion, indee most desperately needs.

atomicllamas: Indeedee-M - Do Not Ban: This is probably the one I'm most on the fence about. While Indeedee-M is very threatening, it is not as difficult to deal with as some of the other offensive threats on this slate. There are quite a few otherwise good Pokémon that check or counter Indeedee's sets (regardless of Indeedee's item) without any, or with only minor, changes. Wallbreaking sets can get past some of its usual answers but requires good prediction and solid maneuvering to do so, I don't think it's to the level where it is unhealthy. The Choice Scarf set is possibly the best cleaner in the tier, but, like other cleaners, it takes quite a bit of work in order to get it into position to clean, which again I do not believe is to the level of being unhealthy for RU. This one is basically on the fence for me, but since I am not sure I will vote to maintain status quo.

Averardo: Indeedee-M: No Ban. I didnt really know what to vote on this mon, and i still am. Indeedee is a very powerful breaker, but it is checked by many steel and dark types (which i think are good typings in general, and not only cause you have to use them to check Indeedee) like Copperajah, Steelix, Silvally Steel, Malamar, Scrafty, Sableye ecc. and the tier just got faster with new good drops like Morpeko, Virizion and Rapidash. As for now, my vote is no ban.

Bebo: (NO BAN) Indeedee was considered by many a clear contender for a suspect test before the tier shift, being a superior version of its female counterpart due to increased Special Attack and Speed stats, that made it a huge threat due to a good speed tier and Psychic Terrain-boosted STAB attacks, which were considered by many overwhelming to handle when paired with a Choice Specs, or hard to revenge kill which a Choice Scarf. However, after the metagame settled, it could be clear that teams adapted to check it consistently with Pokemon that can accomodate multiple roles, such as Steelix, Scrafty, Silvally Dark and Steel, Copperajah, and even some unresisted foes, such as Coalossal, Xatu, and Mantine. While the latter rose to UU, its clear how many metagame staples can provide defensive utility against it and check Indeedee consistently. Despite having good coverage in moves such as Dazzling Gleam, Mystical Fire, Hyper Voice and Trick, Indeedee can be considered an underwhelming Pokemon when forced to click anything thats not a STAB move, and being almost always locked into a move contributes a lot to pivoting around it. It also sits on a good speed tier, but is stuck on the same speed tier as a omnipresent threat that is Silvally for not Scarf sets, while also getting outsped by common threats such as Charizard, Scarf Passimian, Salazzle, Virizion and Togedemaru, while Scarf sets are much easier to check. It's also a pretty frail Pokemon, meaning it usually cant get on the field without pivoting, and its generally a much more easier Pokemon to switch into than Barraskewda, for example.

bkdrew: Indeedee: BAN This thing has been a force of nature since the moment it dropped to the tier. Scarf sets have been incredible revenge killers due to their powerful Psychics, and Specs sets can level entire teams with a little prediction. While in recent times our metagame has adapted with ways to handle Indeedee with increased Dark-type usage and things like AV Copperajah, I believe these are more products of people panic-building them with an "I need to not get trucked by the magic rabbit" mindset, which isn't great. The mere presence of Indeedee absolutely mandates every single team have at least two Pokemon that aren't mauled by Psychic, and it's few defensive answers simply get Tricked. Something as small as the difference between running Specs or Scarf completely changes how you play against Indeedee, and expecting one variant and getting the other can put a player at a near-insurmountable disadvantage quite fast. Toss on top of the pile an immunity to priority and the excellent base 95 speed tier, and I believe Indeedee is just a bit too much right now.

EviGaro: Indeedee - M: Ban: This mon is nuts honestly, Psychic Terrain is just ridiculous to set up free as not only does it mean you basically need an immunity on any team - and dark types while good are really not that spammable - but it also means that all your frail offensive mons that would be picked off by priority are far more restrictive for offence to prep against. Bulky Psychics that are getting more popular against it, like Xatu / Claydol / even Musharna lol, are easily 2hkoed by Specs Hyper Voice, and obviously darks need to watch out for Dazzling Gleam. While it's not as overbearing as the Specs set, Scarf Indeedee got a lot better with the shifts too, as it basically abuses the faster offensive meta by being maybe the second fastest good scarfer but also one that completely picks off any offensive mon really easily, which something like Togedemaru can't really quite do. To me Indeedee has no real bad matchup, and it makes building a lot more of a chore than any mon on this slate.

Feliburn: Indeedee: Do Not Ban 2 weeks ago I definitely thought of this mon as something that should have been banned, it was simply dumb. Specs sets had 0 switchins whatsoever. Now with drops it kinda suffered the same as Raichu except worse because of its lower speed: Meta becomes more offensive, giving it less chances to come in freely and the addition of checks like Persian Alola, Claydol and the rise of Xatu really have reduced the annoyance of this pokemon. Similar to Raichu, I think it's a very solid mon but it has considerably dropped in terms of being broken.

lighthouses: Indeedee-M: ban
I debated a lot over this one, and im honestly not 100% sure that this mon is broken, however, i also don't see much of a reason for it to be kept in the tier either. Every defensive utility provided by this can be done by its female counterpart and i feel like offensive calm mind sets in particular are extremely overbearing on the teambuilding side of things, whereas indee-f has a much worse speed tier(slower than silvally being crucial in my opinion). If the goal is to better the current metagame then i don't see why indee-M should be kept around.

MrAldo: Indeedee-M: DO NOT BAN
Mmm, this one is tricky. While I dont agree with the notion 100%, I can see why this would on the slate. I dont think RU ever had a mon like this that conditioned the game like that. Psychic terrain is a terrain with really incredible effects, disrupting priority as an option to handle things is huge and powering up psychic moves is always fun and all but while it is a mon that can wear down its own checks I do believe it isnt broken, arguably unhealthy, but I think the meta has done a pretty good job at keeping it at bay pre-drops. With the most recent metagame shift the overall speed tier of the metagame has increased. Before, 95 was an outspeeding speed tier to reach only being overthrown by a select group of mons but now there are more stuff like Virizion and others that break the standard and get better due to the nature of the metagame. Steels are good in general and so are other psychics and darks are find their place a lot more easily on the metagame. I believe this mon is manageable without other stuff into consideration, cause it can backfire if you face a raichu-alola using this mon and what not. I dont think this mon is the responsible for the constricting effect, I simply do not see it right now and I would have to see it on his own to even be into a discussion for me. Do Not Ban.

Odd Della Robbia: Indeedee: Ban - Indeedee puts too much strain on players in the teambuilder and in practice. The lack of viable spdef steel and dark types in the tier and the removal of Pursuit make it difficult to punish Indeedee clicking terrain boosted psychic attacks, and indeedee can punch through these checks on its own with fire and fairy coverage with good prediction. Hyper voice works as a safe midground as well for reliable damage on bulky dark and psychic types trying to switch in, making safe switchins extremely scarce barring perfect prediction.

phantom: Indeedee-M - Ban
Indeedee is ridiculous in how it’s able to just click its stabs and nothing else in most games and still make headway into the match. Special Psychic resists aren’t exactly great, and the few that are around are usually slow and easy to wear down, making it especially difficult to manage. In addition, it’s great coverage allows it to more than easily subdue individual checks. There have been a rise in Dark-types in the tier to prevent it from spamming Psychic, but pretty much all of them drop with a single hit from Dazzling Gleam and many of them aren’t exactly the best Pokemon on their own. I think the fact that it can break through its own counters with little support in addition to sitting atop a great speed tier makes it too much for the tier.

:ss/raichu-alola: 8/11 no ban
Ajna: raichu-alola - no ban
on paper this mon has no switchins and can be a great breaker and cleaner; i’m simply voting no ban because i haven’t seen raichu actually do this in practice. raichu is again incredibly frail with very limited defensive utility, and that is the main reason, why at this time, im voting no ban. i’d just like to see how this mon performs in practice before giving him the boot.

atomicllamas: Raichu-Alola - Do Not Ban: I actually totally get why this was nominated, as it is essentially Barraskewda lite. Unlike Barraskewda though, it does not hit quite hard enough to slice through offensive teams the same way. Additionally the difference in speed is quite significant as there is a very good Pokémon that is faster than Raichu that is not faster than Barraskewda, and several other solid offensive Pokémon in that range as well that can check Raichu pretty well. I may not have quite enough experience with this one, so I would not be opposed to revisiting it in the future.

Averardo: Raichu-Alola: Ban. This Pokèmon is impossible to switch into, having perfect coverage for everything in the tier. Surf, Psychic / Psyshock, Thunderbolt, Grass Knot, Focus Blast, it has them all. This plus the incredible speed tie makes me think it is not healthy for the tier.

Bebo: (NO BAN) Raichu-Alola can have the same strong traits it had in SM, such as a great boosting move in Nasty Plot, a great STAB combination with good coverage moves such as Focus Blast, Surf, and Grass Knot, and even access to pivoting in Volt Switch and Teleport. However, it suffers from the same issues it used to: It's poor bulk and defensive typing makes hard for it to switch into basically anything, which also makes it have little room to set up in many games and situations. Raichu's typing also makes it very susceptible to revenge killing from likes of Scarf Rillaboom, Passimian, Togedemaru and Rotom.

bkdrew: Alolan Raichu: NO BAN To put it bluntly, I don't think this thing is too problematic. I think it absolutely could possibly have the potential to become that way, but right now, it really just isn't. Having to choose your coverage means something is always going to wall you, an issue exacerbated if you choose to go with the Nasty Plot set. 4 attacks has become the default det, and while this creates great momentum with it's powerful Volt Switches and ability to trash usual answers to VoltTurn cores like Steelix and Gastrodon with your choice of coverage, the 4MSS and frailty of Alolan Raichu keep it in check pretty well right now.

EviGaro: Raichu-Alola: Do Not Ban: actually a bit of a similar case to Indeedee, it's a really good psychic type with incredible covering. Volt Switch is also incredible on momentum based teams and makes it an amazing pivot on top of a quite stressful breaker. That being said... it's really not that strong, and its completely cut off by Uturn from scarfers. While Indeedee can turn that on the offence matchup with the scarf set, Raichu is either great or a potential hurdle for your team. Its reliance on Life Orb to pick up the kos it needs is also an annoyance, as spikes + rocks adds on fast when it always needs at least two hits to kill something. Love the mon though, definitely a great addition to the meta.

Feliburn: Alolan Raichu: Do Not Ban On paper, Raichu seemed like one of the best breakers in the tier due to the fact that its coverage, raw power and speed were all great, be it 4 attacks or Nasty Plot sets. However the meta hasn't been too kind for it since pokemon such as Togedemaru, Scrafty, Copperajah and even Gastrodon are rising in usage and all work as good answers to Raichu. Also considering the meta is becoming more offensive rlly does not help a pokemon like Raichu considering how frail it is and how easy it is to force it out, being a Psychic type making it weak to the most spammable move by all of our scarfers. I do think this mon is incredibly good but I really don't think it's ban worthy.

lighthouses: Raichu-Alola: ban
If the raichu user is using Life Orb with volt switch, psyshock, grass knot and surf, there is nothing you can do deffensively. It straight up ohkoes any and all electric immunities that try to block it from volt switching and does heavy damage to everything else with volt completely freely, seeing as how it doesn't need to fear pursuit. I honestly think that this is the same situation as centis but amplified to an extent, if the opponent is using raichu and you arent, then you automatically must play MUCH better than your opponent, a lot more than what can be considered reasonable; common counter play to offensive electrics wont apply because as mentioned prior, it just ohkoes the volt immunities. If we are considering a setting where the players are competitive and 100% commited to winning, and the metagame has a pokemon that will automatically shift any matchups to your favor, then the only logic point of development for such a meta would be for raichu to be used on every single team, which should be avoided.

MrAldo: Raichu-Alola: BAN
As the one responsible for nominating this mon, I do have very honest reasoning into why I think this mon is a tad too much at the moment in my eyes. Absolutely insane coverage options which means safe switch-ins to this creature can be counted with one hand, and a good amount are incredibly niche. Like for real: Volt Switch, Grass Knot, Surf, Psyshock gives you more than enough to hit over 90% of the tier on its own, and whatever isnt gets volt switched on forcing you to lose a lot of momentum making raichu-a be on the wheel way too easily, basically risk free since there is no pursuit as an excuse to balance it. Excellent speed tier which is way above the average and atm, while a cool addition, is just another humongous threat that just doesnt help the tier in trying to like keep it balanced tbh, defensive counterplay is already hard enough. If it end up banned Id love to revisit this but right now is not I like seeing around and punishing teams just by pressing buttons, kinda like centi but faster and a lot frailer I guess? Yeah no. If with had pursuit... but we dont so Ban.

Odd Della Robbia: Raichu-Alola: Do not ban - I was very torn about this one but ultimately decided no ban for a lot of the same reasons as Barraskewda. It has great coverage but has a hard time finding opportunities to come in, and it often doesn’t even run nasty plot since it finds so few opportunities to use it. I’ll vote no ban for now as I want to see more of the impact it has on the tier, and I wouldn’t be opposed to revisiting this one in the future.

phantom: Raichu-Alola - Do not Ban
Raichu just doesn’t have the raw power to make it worthy of a ban. While its coverage is obviously great, it relies solely on that in order to get its kills, and even then it’s lacking to an extent when certain Pokemon like Scrafty, Drampa, Copperajah, Ferroseed, etc can still switch into it a few times and hold it back. Its 1v1 mus tends to be terrible as well and relegates it to cleaning roles as opposed to breaking, Nasty Plot sets alleviate the issue that all-out attack sets have, but just getting Raichu in requires support much less getting another turn to help it set up, and even then the coverage is lacking. While it is obviously a great mon, I think the lack of switch-in opportunities, power, and presence of perfectly viable checks makes it more than manageable.

:ss/Salazzle: 6/11 no ban
Ajna: salazzle - no ban
salazzle is an incredibly good mon, and it got better with the addition of boots… i’d even argue it’s the best mon in the tier, but at the same time, i don’t think it’s unhealthy. salazzle has solid defensive checks like rhydon, jellicent, and snorlax, but what separates it from the likes of barra is its lack of offensive checks, it’s ability to be a good scarfer, and corrosion toxic. even with all these things in mind, i think that the tier is able to handle salazzle quite proficiently, even if a well played salazzle has the potential of breaking down any team long term.

atomicllamas: Salazzle - Do Not Ban: While Salazzle is certainly one of the best Pokémon in the tier due to its nice STAB combination and its ability to poison every Pokémon in the tier, it still has several counters / very hard checks in the tier. Defensively oriented teams may require more than one slot to fully counter Salazzle (traditional counter + aromatherapy user), but those teams are capable of building for threats like that regardless. Offensive teams typically must pack one solid check and a different Pokémon that can outspeed and KO Salazzle, but those are also things that can fit on traditional offensive builds pretty easily. At this point I do not believe that this needs to be banned.

Averardo: Salazzle: Ban. Salazzle has a great speed tie, a great typing and great utility moves. The stabs themself are alredy very hard to switch into, and this + its great and spammable Toxic and great utility moves like Knock Off and Encore makes it hard to find reliable switchins. Nasty Plot sets are also still very powerfull, making it a great breaker. Overall, i think this Pokèmon isnt healthy for the tier.

Bebo: (BAN) Salazzle was one of the most powerful Pokemon in SM, and it's no different now in SS. Salazzle can be considered the premier special attacker of the tier, with its great offensive set, with Nasty Plot, Fire Blast and Sludge Wave, and the addition of Heavy Duty Boots only make Salazzle stronger, since it can switch in more freely into hazards. SS made Salazzle lose useful coverage in Hidden Power, but it was quickly aided by running Toxic, which can worn down all of Salazzle's common checks as it switches in and out to force them into the field, such as Rhydon, Coalossal, Jellicent, Gastrodon, being mostly a no-risk move since it will poison any Pokemon independent of their typing, due to Corrosion. It also benefitted directly from the departure of Mantine, which was a common countermeasure to both Nasty Plot and Choice Scarf sets. Otherwise, it's still the powerful speed demon it used to be, but its overwhelming for all of its potential checks due to SS changes and I consider it a unhealthy part of the metagame.

bkdrew: Salazzle: BAN Heavy-Duty Boots taking the place of Poisonium Z in the generational shift means that the best way of pressuring Salazzle, residual damage through Stealth Rock, is now a nonfactor. Combine this with the now-always used Corrosion Toxic, which can completely invalidate any defensive answer. Compounding this were the losses of Mantine, Goodra, and Gigalith over the past month and a half, all Pokemon that Salazzle despised. There's a relatively small pool of Pokemon that don't really fear Salazzle's STAB combination, and while some of them are downright clunky to try to fit on teams, they all suffer a Toxic on switch-in. I've gone this far without mentioning the hellish sight of ProTox Salazzle, which can be nothing short of demonic for any team lacking a fast Earthquake or Rock Blast user to deal with. These two main sets, both with their different answers, combine with Salazzle's trademark Corrosion Toxic, blazing speed, excellent STAB combination, and Stealth Rock immunity as long as it has timbs to create a very unhealthy Pokemon for the meta right now.

EviGaro: Salazzle: Do Not Ban: actually torn on this but for w/e reasons building against this has felt a lot easier recently. Sure, Knock Toxic is a ridiculous combo on it, it's extremely fast and has amazing coverage simply with its stabs, but it's incredibly frail and struggles successfully to setup even with boots. The protect sets are annoying but not extremely egregious to deal with. I think it's incredible, as it always was in RU, but it's probably the mon I want to see suspected the most on this list. While we know what it does I think its role is probably the one that can be adjusted more to the overall metagame, and I'd like to see where we are with it and less nonsensical mons in the near future if possible.

Feliburn: Salazzle: Do Not Ban I really don't think this mons broken at all. It's been doing the same thing since the gen started, spam corrosion toxic and switch out. There are plenty of pokemon that handle this mon, the annoying part is the toxic chip but that's been the case since alpha where we even had Gigalith and it always got chipped down without ever damaging Lazzle. Mantine leaving means another mon gone that can switch in to its stabs but I think more diverse options like Snorlax, Rhydon, Gastrodon, Jellicent, Coalossal, etc all can do that p easily, not to mention the offensive threats that force it to switch out like Barraskewda or the rising Boltund (it's getting good I promise).

lighthouses: Salazzle: no ban
Salazzle has very hard checks in corsola, jellicent, gastrodon, rhydon, coalossal and an extremely hard counter in snorlax. It can run toxic to get past its checks but not in an overwhelming manner where it gets the toxic off and the next time it comes in, it threatens a KO. The salazzle user has to both: Use a good, functional team to support it, and also play well in order to get past its checks(unlike other pokemon currently being voted on); A lot of the pokemon i listed as answers are able to take on salazzle for a reasonable amount of time even after being toxiced, with jellicent and gastro in particular taking very little from its attacks, and rhydon being often seen in more offensively inclined teams. The fact that salazzle can be handled by combinations of mons that are perfectly good in the tier(deffensive answers listed above and revenge killers like pass and rillaboom etc all being able to revenge kill) leads me to believe that, while it probably is the best offensive mon in the tier(bar the others being voted on), it's not unfair.

MrAldo: Salazzle: BAN
This mon is toxic as heck... literally and figuratively. This mon certainly doesnt have the coverage that another drops have but the worse of all of this she doesnt need it at all. Id call this mon a bully, especially for anything that is slower. The introduction of heavy duty boots made with this mon an absolute nightmare cause many of the ways you could diminish salazzle risk value was by wearing her down with your hazard of choice (besides tspikes ofc) but now in this gen she takes full advantage of this item. Immune to rocks so it can come up any time without taking any sort of effect of hazards. Corrosion toxic which means it is the easiest toxic to use ever, no risk involved and between knock off, disable, encore and what not it has all the tools to outlast all of its checks during a whole match. Against offense the 2 stabs move and speed tier are sufficient enough to make it a menace that will not be useless at any point. In the end Salazzle causes this loopsided effect where defensive stuff just feels really unreliable (it is a combination of factors but I think Salazzle is one of the main culprits of this) and I dont think it is a good idea to keep something like that around on a meta that wants to develop. Ban.

Odd Della Robbia: Salazzle: Do not ban - Salazzle heavily depends on toxic to get past its checks and counters. While it’s true that almost nothing is safe from a corrosion toxic, I don’t believe this trait makes Salazzle banworthy. Most scarfers are able to reliably revenge kill it and solid fire resists are a standard on any team.

phantom: Salazzle - Ban
I definitely would like to revisit this mon at some point, but for now it has to go. Salazzle is weird in that despite the fact that it has a decent number of checks, it’s capable of breaking down just about all of them on its own. Offensive mons crippling their counters with toxic isn’t anything new, but Salazzle takes it a step further by being able to threaten anything capable of sponging the status. Additionally, despite its poor bulk, its typing alongside Heavy Duty Boots lets it switch in plenty of times and take turns on a number of prominent Pokemon such as Vileplume, Aromatisse, and Weezing. Salazzle doesn’t necessarily have to sweep itself to put in work, but its ability to effortlessly dismantle defensive cores and still have the offensive presence necessary to pull its weight in other matches makes it a little too good.

After quite the thrilling weekend, Barraskewda and Centiskorch are now banned from the RU tier while Indeedee-M, Raichu-Alola and Salazzle stay RU. Tagging The Immortal and Marty to remove them from the ladder, thank you!
Ok... i will always would need to use rest lax, jelli or rhydon bc someone dont want to ban the most annoyer mon in the tier..
Ok...
 
And here I was thinking Toxic Spikes would be usable upon Salazzle's ban. Oh well.

Losing a mon that can force Salazzle out without needing a scarf only helps it, however slightly.

Hell, a good amount of the bans / tier shifts have only benefited Salazzle (Goodra, Barbaracle, Gigalith, Vaporeon, Mantine and now Barraskewda) who, before their leave, was still really good.

We only have so many mons that beat Lazzle and most of them lose to Ninetales (Rhydon, Jellicent, Gastrodon), leaving only RestLax as a counter to both.

I'm not saying Lazzle is broken, I am saying this tier is going to be set on fire if we ever lose Lax.


Obligatory Sword and Shield sucks.
 
And here I was thinking Toxic Spikes would be usable upon Salazzle's ban. Oh well.

Losing a mon that can force Salazzle out without needing a scarf only helps it, however slightly.

Hell, a good amount of the bans / tier shifts have only benefited Salazzle (Goodra, Barbaracle, Gigalith, Vaporeon, Mantine and now Barraskewda) who, before their leave, was still really good.

We only have so many mons that beat Lazzle and most of them lose to Ninetales (Rhydon, Jellicent, Gastrodon), leaving only RestLax as a counter to both.

I'm not saying Lazzle is broken, I am saying this tier is going to be set on fire if we ever lose Lax.


Obligatory Sword and Shield sucks.
I think a quick ban to Lax will make Lazzle the s tier mon who the council want... pair with ninetales for a fire spam offence and gg no one can play this tier bc the council like spam toxic without tinking about it... #QuickBanLax
 
Hlelo, here are the results of the vote. Thanks to all that contributed and especially bkdrew and lighthouses for joining us as rotating council for this round of voting! Here are the results:

:ss/barraskewda: 6/11 ban
Ajna: barraskweda - no ban
this mon is absolutely fine for the meta. it’s a fun, fast breaker; it’s the literal definition of a glass cannon. lo is far to weak to warrant it being called unhealthy, and cb is incredibly prediction reliant. it has great defensive checks in mons like jellicent and vileplume, and decent offensive ones like scarf rilla, toxicroak, and whimsicott. pretty clear no ban for me.

atomicllamas: Barraskewda - Ban: Due to its high speed tier, unresisted coverage and great attack stat, Barraskewda simply puts too much strain on team building in the RU tier. Its counters are essentially limited to physically defensive Lanturn and Gastrodon, the former is prone to be worn down and difficult to fit onto teams further limiting the number of solid answers. With offensive teams you are required to dance around Barraskewda's attacks or sack a Pokémon in order to get your choice scarf/revenge killer in against Barraskewda. So, while Barraskewda is one of the faces of offense in the tier, I believe its presence actually constrains offensive builds in the tier too much.

Averardo: Goodra: Barraskewda: Ban. With its crazy speed, attack and movepool, Barraskewda is one of the most threatning mon in the tier. Psychic Fang for Vileplume, Crunch for Jellicent, and a good spammable coverage in close combat, Barraskewda is almost impossible to switch into, putting massive pressure both on the builder and in battle. Its frail, but thats the deal with every glass cannon, and its not enough of an argument to keep it on the tier.

Bebo:(BAN) Barraskewda was kind of a sleeper Pokemon before the tier shifts happened. The main trigger that exposed its viability and power was the rise of Mantine, which was a very consistent check to its most powerful moves and was seen in almost all teams, being the second most used Pokémon in the first 3 weeks of RUPL. That made players realize how little defensive counterplay Barraskewda really has after Mantines departure, having few pokemon that can take a STAB Liquidation, and can usually be very weakened or KOed by Barraskewda coverage, such as Toxicroak, Vileplume, Jellicent, Virizion, and Gastrodon. It also boasts a amazing speed tier with its 136 Speed stat, that allows it to outspeed some of the fastest non boosted Pokemon this tier has to offer while running an Adamant Nature to improve its damage output even further with its near perfect coverage in Psychic Fangs, Close Combat, and Crunch. Barraskewda works best when supported by pivoting, which can be provided by tier staples such as Silvally forms, Xatu, Passimian and Vikavolt, which can give it momentum to come in for free on the field and wreak havoc on opposing teams. I find this mon too much for the tier to handle with its crazy speed and breaking power making it unhealthy for RarelyUsed.

bkdrew: Barraskewda: NO BAN Barraskewda's main issue right now is it's very hit or miss nature: it is the epitome of a glass cannon, it needs to kill what's in front of it or it can and will die. While it's hard answers are few, namely limited to Gastrodon and Lanturn, there's a lot of things that can take one hit then proceed to flatten Barraskewda. When you combine this with it's absolute inability to contribute to it's team's defensive backbone even in the slightest, you end up with a super-powerful but super-fragile glass Pokemon that can only afford to make plays a small handful of times in a given game. With this in mind, I don't believe Barraskewda is a problematic Pokemon right now.

EviGaro: Barraskewda: Ban: Barraskewda's counterplay involves so many guessing games that it's a bit difficult for me to see the positives it brings to the tier. While those guessing games can definitely be a two ways street as Barraskewda's bulk is completely non existent and a bad prediction can set it back significantly, its power and unmatched's speed gives you a lot more pressure to build against it. Additionally, its reliable answers are extremely passive, which is a very notable issue in a metagame that got a lot more fast paced with the newest shifts as the lynchpin of the tier moved away from Mantine balance to whatever this is that we have.

Feliburn: Barraskewda: Do Not Ban Now this one is interesting, ever since Barra dropped we all thought it was gonna be this broken fast breaker with few counters, even Mantine dropped to banded Double Edge, and now that Mantine is gone it can run other moves to not take recoil and increase its longevity. Surprisingly, on paper this mon did get better without Mantine but as usual, it falls short in practice. Jellicent becoming a very good water type in the tier and Gastrodon and Toxicroak rising in usage both put a stop to it and prevent it from spamming the Water Stab. It sounds like there's little counterplay to it but the meta is offensive enough to where it barely gets chances to be sent in. Personally voting not to ban it despite it being obvious this pokemon has gotten way better.

lighthouses: Barraskewda: ban
The tier is, arguably, currently limited to vileplume as the sole viable deffensive grass type option, with 3 water absorb mons in jellicent, gastro, and toxicroak; while it IS true that one is perfectly able to outplay skewda possesing one of those deffensive answers and a revenge killing option, the player using the fish will always be able to play more relaxed, while the one in the receiving end necessarily has to play much better to win completely independent of the quality of their team; I say this because the metagame simply lacks the tools for this to be mitigated in the teambuilder, our current list of mons isn't preppared to handle offensive waters at all, and one that is this fast is just too much.

MrAldo:<br />
Barraskewda: DO NOT BAN
This is where it gets tricky, I can see the arguments onto why this mon can be considered unhealthy and even somewhat busted but I personally dont see it right now. While it can be a pain to switch into I think it has provide good benefits in terms of building options. RU never had a mon that strong and fast at the same time and I think having a cleaner of that quality is good for offensive and balanced builds. Also, it is a mon that requires more conditioning than any of the mons in this slate, being a big glass cannon you really need to play it right cause if it miss a KO it is as good as gone and I think the tier can handle it if water resists werent so punished by many things right now. I think this one deserves another shot, I love having a naturally fast attacker that could fresh up building a bit and add speed and power on a tier that has pretty barren options besides niche stuff, kind like mega sceptile did past gen tbh. Having an option as a cleaner that doesnt need scarf to bring you speed is a really undervalued quality that easily outweight its potentially bad effect in the meta tbh. Do Not Ban, Id like to see more of barraskewda.

Odd Della Robbia: Barraskewda: Do not ban - The typical glass cannon mon, fish requires a lot of support from teammates clicking U-turn and Parting Shot to get opportunities to come in. It has a hard time clicking its water STABS in a tier with so many resists and immunities around. It wears itself down with life orb and hazards and is easy to force out with a scarf U-turn. I really don’t think this mon deserves a ban.

phantom: Barraskewda - Ban
It’s too easy to support with countermeasures being highly exploitable and limited. Fish only has one counter in the entire tier and enough coverage to 2HKO everything else. Even Gastrodon is forced to burn a turn if it comes in on a coverage move. In addition, Life Orb sets require proper guesswork in order to play around and oftentimes have the potential to cheese through counters with defense drops from Liquidation even if you do guess right. While its bulk holds it back, the tier isn’t lacking in pivots that can help it come in safely, and there isn’t a whole lot of mons capable of taking turns on it or forcing it out except on telegraphed revenge kill from scarfers, of which is easy to exploit.
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Why did you have to do this with Barraskewda? Centiskorch I understand, but why the fish?

Like this post to pay respects for our fallen comrade, Barraskewda.
 
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