Metagame NP: RU Stage 11: I'll Drown [Mega Slowbro & Mega Sceptile Banned]

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#1
It's that time again: tier shifts are here!

RU Gained:


RU Lost:


Feel free to use this thread as a general discussion thread to talk about the new metagame, new sets, teams, cores or Pokemon you have found to be effective. Tier shifts have only recently happened, so do not talk about bans in this thread. The council will be set to evaluate any potentially problematic elements from the tier shifts and vote on them within the coming week. All ru-related tournaments will be locked into the pre-tier shift metagame for that time period.

np song:

 

rau

Gogeta is canon now!
is a Live Chat Contributoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
#2
Man moltres really did rise, huh? Glad that rhyperior is still around since its prowess as a SR tank and wallbreaker with SD + Z-move are a pretty nice touch to the metagame.

Mega Sceptile looks beastly. It's speed stat lets it gets the jump on two of the most threatening Choice Scarf users: Gardevoir and Tyrantrum, making Sceptile quite the the threat to offense. It will likely make Registeel usage increase even more compared to Mega Steelix (due to great bulk and resisting its STAB combo), but Sceptile can still manage to get some damage in with Focus Blast.

How long has it been since Mantine has been in the tier? While it may be a defogger weak to rocks, its great special bulk and typing will be useful as a switch-in to Ninetales, Golisopod. I'd say these will try to force themselves into somehow fitting HP Electric and Rock Slide on their movesets, respectively, as Mantine's return will definitely make a splash in the tier (Shit's starting to look like UU with Mega Slowbro coming along. Dont have much to say on it, but it probably gets dicked on hard by Milotic / Mantine due to Haze and lack of Regenerator blows. Wilk likely rely on Rest CM sets with move like Iron Defense and Block to cheese its way through games).
 

eaglehawk

once known as smogon gay baby #4
#3
Man moltres really did rise, huh? Glad that rhyperior is still around since its prowess as a SR tank and wallbreaker with SD + Z-move are a pretty nice touch to the metagame.

Mega Sceptile looks beastly. It's speed stat lets it gets the jump on two of the most threatening Choice Scarf users: Gardevoir and Tyrantrum, making Sceptile quite the the threat to offense. It will likely make Registeel usage increase even more compared to Mega Steelix (due to great bulk and resisting its STAB combo), but Sceptile can still manage to get some damage in with Focus Blast.

How long has it been since Mantine has been in the tier? While it may be a defogger weak to rocks, its great special bulk and typing will be useful as a switch-in to Ninetales, Golisopod. I'd say these will try to force themselves into somehow fitting HP Electric and Rock Slide on their movesets, respectively, as Mantine's return will definitely make a splash in the tier (Shit's starting to look like UU with Mega Slowbro coming along. Dont have much to say on it, but it probably gets dicked on hard by Milotic / Mantine due to Haze and lack of Regenerator blows. Wilk likely rely on Rest CM sets with move like Iron Defense and Block to cheese its way through games).
It's also kind of disappointing that something as fat as MegaBro still gets 2HKO'd by CB Head Smash. I think MegaBro's better off as an offensive tank/wallbreaker that can take really hard hits from most physical attackers while maintaining good Offensive coverage with Fire Blast, Scald, Ice Beam, etc., but I think MegaToise does a better job at that.
 
#4
I'm seeing a lot of talk about the special attack version of Mega-Sceptile. Which makes a lot of sense considering how hard it hits with it's STABs, as well as having focus blast to hit steel types. But, if you really get to thinking about it, a physical attacking set could be good too. It seems like this new drop will be forcing tons of switches, which allows a free SD. This is all speculation though, so I could be wrong.

+2 252 Atk Sceptile-Mega Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Registeel: 272-322 (74.7 - 88.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Sceptile-Mega Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 182-216 (56.5 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
180+ Atk Doublade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sceptile-Mega: 76-91 (27 - 32.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
180+ Atk Doublade Shadow Claw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sceptile-Mega: 135-159 (48 - 56.5%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Sceptile-Mega Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 243-286 (57.3 - 67.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Sceptile-Mega Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Shaymin: 348-411 (102 - 120.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

A lot of mons in this tier are weak to eq & it's two STABs. Not only that but, thanks to it's speed tier it becomes quite hard to revenge kill it. It could be a very deadly set.
 
#5
Yanmega @ Choice Specs / Life Orb
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Bug Buzz
- Air Slash
- U-turn
- Giga Drain

Moltres leaving does some good things for Yanmega.

1. Scarf Moltres was one of offense's better switch-ins to specs buzz(if youd call it a 'switch-in'), with it being gone, offense's way of dealing with a Specs Yanmega is hoping rocks are up and you can force it out with something faster after it gets a kill.

2. Grass types are now more encouraged to be used, like the already popular Shaymin and Virizion, but also less popular mons like Abomasnow, Chesnaught and Tsaneera. All of these heavily dislike a Bug Buzz or even a Air Slash to the face, and Yanmega, while a crippling rock weakness hurts it, it can switch in on things like CM Viriz, Sub Shaymin and Chesnaught if they aren't up.

3. Yanmega can beat M-Scept in a 1v1 situation, and also check MegaBro, although Mantine is a decent check to Yanmega.
 
#7
Okay actual tier shifts are here!

UU —> RU

Marowak-alola, Mega Sceptile, Mega Slowbro

RU —> UU

Moltres

The rules in the OP still apply. Feel free to discuss the tier changes but DO NOT discuss bans just yet. Council will work on dealing with any problematic elements from tier shifts within the next week.
 
#9
Alolan-Marowak is a very interesting drop, in that it's just a super strong Fire/Ghost type which has fantastic coverage in this tier with not a viable Pokemon resisting both STABs.

Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Rock Head / Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Shadow Bone
- Swords Dance
- Bonemerang / Substitute

On Web teams, this could be absolutely deadly, and just in general as a stall-breaker. Blitz/Bone hits pretty much everything, while Bonemerang cleans up what doesn't, like Rhyperior and Gigalith. While Rock Head is preferred, Lightning Rod could provide some defensive utility against things like Rotom-Cut and Rotom-Heat, both of which become set-up fodder thanks to Will-O-Wisp doing nothing to Maro and their other STAB moves being not very effective. Substitute is an interesting alternative to Bonemerang, given that +2 Shadow Bone still hits what Bonemerang hits hard, but at the risk of needing to set-up in order to do so while Bonemerang can just 2HKO Rhyperior and Diancie without set-up. But still, Subbing up on weak walls like Bronzong and Chesnaught, or even choice-locked Bewears and other Fighting types is not an unviable choice either as it gives you more security in setting up or even just killing what's in front of you, knowing you'll absorb at least one hit thanks to the Substitute.
 
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#10
On the topic of Alola-Wak, two of the drops benefit/help the Trick Room archetype.

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Slowbro-Mega @ Slowbronite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 180 Def / 76 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Slack Off

Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Swords Dance
- Fire Punch
- Shadow Bone
- Bonemerang

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Mega Slowbro offers a physically bulky Trick Room setter to the tier, capable of taking hits from even the likes of Choice Band Pangoro, Bewear and Tyrantrum (too some extent on the former). The defensive spread allows Slowbro to never be 2HKO by Scarf Gardevoir Moonblast so long as there's no hazards, whilst the rest is pumped into it's massive defense. Modest allows it to OHKO Tyrantrum after rocks, always 2HKO Offensive Shaymin, Rotom-M and non-bulky Mega Ampharos etc. with Ice Beam. Now with Alola-Wak, Lightning Rod gives not only a immunity to Electric-type attacks but also a pivot for Slowbro against Electric-types such as Rotom-Heat and Mow for free setup or damage. Flare Blitz + Rock Head is not truly needed in my opinion unless you run a Non-SD Variant outside of Trick Room, as +2 Fire Punch pretty much nabs most of the same OHKOs or 2HKOs. Flare Blitz does OHKO Gligar after Rocks though at +2, but ultimately the trade for a free immunity and setup option is better in my opinion. It will be interesting too see how Trick Room will develop with these two, or even just Alola-Wak if Mega Bro does end up quick-banned.

Post Edit Testing: Testing this core on the ladder was nothing but results, nothing switch-ins to +2 AloWak and the things that can muster a hit are too weak to revenge kill due to them needing a lot of investment. Seriously, gets free kills in Trick Room every time it comes in. Also Mega Bro eats literally everything physically, took 75% from +2 Devastating Drake from Adamant Zygarde and just Slacked Off on it. Also Bold Nature with 252 HP / 20 Def / 160 SpA / 76 SpD achieves the same spread but more Special Attack, thanks to Lep for pointing that out.
 
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#11
Those are my thougths on the new drops. Lets first discuss mega scep:
1531712229559.png

Sceptile-Mega @ Sceptilite
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Throat Chop\Earthquake
- Leaf Blade
- Dragon Claw\ Iron Tail
This is in my opinion the strongest mon we got from this ts. SD its probably the best set, since he can boost himself and actually attempt to sweep, only few things can stop this set, like p2 and forretres, but both can lose from the special set. Florges its prob the best counter, but iron tail can destroy it pretty easily (if she doesn dodge obv). The real big problem with this thing, its that hes hard af to revengkill. His high speed make him faster than 80 base speed scarfer, and thats sad when gardevoir its the best scarfer in the tier. I only encounter him vs leprechaun, he was using a special set and he put me a lot of pressure, forcing me to switch out constantly into florges. Not gonna judge him from this battle to, since we were both playing untested teams on ladder.

And since freshgamer ninjed me, im gonna talk about mega bro and maro individually.
1531713219315.png

This mon has a lot of potential sets, slack off offensive/defensive 3 attacks, trick room, cmind, and has a pretty damn good movepool. Its big problem is first of all his shitty spdef, and that he need to stay on the base form to use regenerator. So even if some people say "o my its not even a 2hko from band tyrantrum" then youre gonna lose regenerator. Yes its a sacrifice you can do in late game, but youre gonna need a lot of support to let that happen. So, i dont think this mon its really so broken, surelly less broken than entei to.

1531713595314.png


Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 200 HP / 252 Atk / 56 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Bonemerang
- Shadow Bone
- Knock Off\Sword dance (i would run sword dance only on tr)
This one is pretty interesting. Its not the best to being weak to ground, rock and water, three of the most popular types in the meta, but this dude is still really hard to switch in. Just for example:
252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Shadow Bone vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Blastoise-Mega: 187-222 (62.3 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 200+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 151-178 (45.2 - 53.2%) -- 34.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 200+ Def Gligar: 226-267 (67.6 - 79.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 216-255 (50.9 - 60.1%) -- 87.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Shadow Bone vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Milotic: 184-217 (46.7 - 55%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery .
He can even beat milotic or stall some recovers, since milo need a max roll to kill with scald + rocks, or if you got a lucky drop.
This mon on tr is pretty disgusting, tried it with future sigth slowbro and did damn well. Again not gonna judge, since i only used him on ladder.

Now i want to talk about a mon we had under your eyes from a lot of time, but he has been overlooked from the very beginning.
Im talking about this one
1531714882247.png


sneasel in my opinion was alredy underrated and now with those drop its getting only better. He can beat every mon we got from this ts. Sd darkinium/icium is a really good set that is really difficult to revengkill since his high speed, and most of the scarfers get a good amount of damage from +2 ice shard. Band sneasel is a cool revenkiller too that has a lot of good reason to run him over drapion, like being faster then mismagius, virizion, shaymin and a priority in the form of ice shard.

So my final opinion is that scep and slow are really unhealthy for the meta, maro its hard to switch in especially under tr but its not a big deal, and im glad we lost moltres.
If you have any contraddiction to point out, i will be glad to listen to youre opinion
 
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Molk

Godlike Usmash
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#12
Adding onto Averado's post about Sneasel a little, i was theorymonning a bit when the original (bad) usage stats were posted and i think that not just Sneasel, but a few other Ice-types including Vanilluxe, Mega Abomasnow, and Mega Glalie might enjoy these tier shifts. Mega Sceptile is basically a Choice Scarf user that can switch moves because of how fast it is, case closed. Because of this, offensive teams are going to have a lot of trouble revenge killing it as it outspeeds a lot of RU's most common choices for Choice Scarf users such as Gardevoir and Tyrantrum. Priority is going to be important when it comes to keeping Mega Sceptile in check, and what better priority to use against it than Ice Shard? Sneasel, Vanilluxe, Mega Abomasnow, and Mega Glalie are all viable options in the tier that learn the move, and i can definitely see quite a few offensive builds resorting to them to keep the monster that is Mega Sceptile in check. Mega Glalie and Mega Abomasnow have the notable downside of taking up the mega slot though, which might be tough for some teams to do because that would mean missing out on options such as Mega Steelix, Mega Blastoise, and two of our new drops.

Mega Slowbro most likely being a big threat in the new meta also gives me an excuse to meme on people with Guzzlord again.
 
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#13
On the topic of Alola-Wak, two of the drops benefit/help the Trick Room archetype.

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Slowbro-Mega @ Slowbronite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 180 Def / 76 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Slack Off

Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Swords Dance
- Fire Punch
- Shadow Bone
- Bonemerang

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

Mega Slowbro offers a physically bulky Trick Room setter to the tier, capable of taking hits from even the likes of Choice Band Pangoro, Bewear and Tyrantrum (too some extent on the former). The defensive spread allows Slowbro to never be 2HKO by Scarf Gardevoir Moonblast so long as there's no hazards, whilst the rest is pumped into it's massive defense. Modest allows it to OHKO Tyrantrum after rocks, always 2HKO Offensive Shaymin, Rotom-M and non-bulky Mega Ampharos etc. with Ice Beam. Now with Alola-Wak, Lightning Rod gives not only a immunity to Electric-type attacks but also a pivot for Slowbro against Electric-types such as Rotom-Heat and Mow for free setup or damage. Flare Blitz + Rock Head is not truly needed in my opinion unless you run a Non-SD Variant outside of Trick Room, as +2 Fire Punch pretty much nabs most of the same OHKOs or 2HKOs. Flare Blitz does OHKO Gligar after Rocks though at +2, but ultimately the trade for a free immunity and setup option is better in my opinion. It will be interesting too see how Trick Room will develop with these two, or even just Alola-Wak if Mega Bro does end up quick-banned.

Post Edit Testing: Testing this core on the ladder was nothing but results, nothing switch-ins to +2 AloWak and the things that can muster a hit are too weak to revenge kill due to them needing a lot of investment. Seriously, gets free kills in Trick Room every time it comes in. Also Mega Bro eats literally everything physically, took 75% from +2 Devastating Drake from Adamant Zygarde and just Slacked Off on it.
Been using this exact core on a Trick Room team of my own, and I can confirm that it's dummy strong. Mega Bro baits in almost everything that Alolawak can use as set up fodder, and once it gets to +2, something will die. I've been pairing this core with a BellyLax with 3 attacks which breaks down pretty much anything with Frustration, Crunch, and Earthquake. +6 Frustration OHKOs Gligar after rocks for Marowak while also destroying other mons that bother Wak like Mandibuzz, Umbreon, and fat Waters although +2 Shadow Bone kills pretty much all of the waters in this tier outside Quagsire, which can still get 2HKOd after some chip or a Defense drop.
 

The Leprechaun

life is getting quite exciting
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
#14
On the topic of Alola-Wak, two of the drops benefit/help the Trick Room archetype.

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬


Slowbro-Mega @ Slowbronite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 180 Def / 76 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Slack Off

Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Swords Dance
- Fire Punch
- Shadow Bone
- Bonemerang

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

Mega Slowbro offers a physically bulky Trick Room setter to the tier, capable of taking hits from even the likes of Choice Band Pangoro, Bewear and Tyrantrum (too some extent on the former). The defensive spread allows Slowbro to never be 2HKO by Scarf Gardevoir Moonblast so long as there's no hazards, whilst the rest is pumped into it's massive defense. Modest allows it to OHKO Tyrantrum after rocks, always 2HKO Offensive Shaymin, Rotom-M and non-bulky Mega Ampharos etc. with Ice Beam. Now with Alola-Wak, Lightning Rod gives not only a immunity to Electric-type attacks but also a pivot for Slowbro against Electric-types such as Rotom-Heat and Mow for free setup or damage. Flare Blitz + Rock Head is not truly needed in my opinion unless you run a Non-SD Variant outside of Trick Room, as +2 Fire Punch pretty much nabs most of the same OHKOs or 2HKOs. Flare Blitz does OHKO Gligar after Rocks though at +2, but ultimately the trade for a free immunity and setup option is better in my opinion. It will be interesting too see how Trick Room will develop with these two, or even just Alola-Wak if Mega Bro does end up quick-banned.

Post Edit Testing: Testing this core on the ladder was nothing but results, nothing switch-ins to +2 AloWak and the things that can muster a hit are too weak to revenge kill due to them needing a lot of investment. Seriously, gets free kills in Trick Room every time it comes in. Also Mega Bro eats literally everything physically, took 75% from +2 Devastating Drake from Adamant Zygarde and just Slacked Off on it.
you can achieve the same stat spread with 44 less evs if you give defence a positive nature. Just a tip, but unless you're trying to hit a specific benchmark when spreading evs across two stats, you should always give the positive nature to the higher base stat.

Slowbro-Mega @ Slowbronite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 20 Def / 160 SpA / 76 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Slack Off

this spread gives it a slightly higher special attack while maintaining the same defence stat xx
 
#15
marowak-alola.gif



Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Shadow Bone
- Bonemerang
- Focus Punch / Will-O-Wisp / Stealth Rock / Toxic

So after quite a few games of testing out this mon it has far exceeded my expectations. While I don't think it will be an A rank mon, it's certainly going to be something teams can't ignore on a threatlist. How I think it's going to affect teambuilding will be teams trying to pivot around its stabs or a rise in pursuit trappers to get rid of it before it does too much damage. And because it's stabs are so solid with Bonemerang to kill barbaracle brave enough to set up on you and do ruin diancie it's last moveslots is quite customisable to either give it some status way to cripple its checks, rocks to support its team or even another coverage move. I went with focus punch as it can smash porygon2 in one go and it kills mandibuzz if it is trying to roost off flare blitz damage. The main target is snorlax to catch more offensive ones on the switch and to stop curselax from setting up on it. It also stops molk from trying to meme people with guzzlord.
 
#16
Alright I've been playing and watching games with the drops and I feel like I should share my thoughts about them.


Mega sceptile is pretty damn good not gonna lie, the biggest problem I have with this mon is how hard it is to revenge kill it since you have to rely on either a scarfer faster than base 80 speed, good priority such as first impression, espeed when weakened or ice shard from certain mons, or your own mega sceptile winning the tie, working as a scarfer that can switch moves pretty much, other than that there are some specially defensive mons that can check it although it can probably annoy most of them w/ a sub seed set but unlike another sub seed grass like shaymin, sceptile doesnt get the added recovery from leftovers making it harder for it to get past most checks this way, but it does a good job in chipping them little by little. I feel like from what I've seen, most ladder players who are aware of the drops did a decent job at adapting just by looking at their teams, but as easy as it is to make a team that beats sceptile, it feels like it's already too much of a threat and restrictive for builds, making it an unhealthy addition as much as it pains me to say this :psygrump:

The only thing I really liked was watching a lot of different teams w/ different ways of handling sceptile, it was honestly a fresh view from the stagnant meta the tier was before these dropped, I really appreciated the variety showcased, especially the different florges teams.




I don't really know what to think about this mon. In all honesty the mega evolution just feels like an added resource to regular slowbro rather than making it a threat on it's own since losing regenerator for the added bulk and special attack feels like something you'd do when you need to take a hit, kill something or set up to win rather than a thing you'd do as soon as you send the mon out, but that's just how I see it. This mon better handles the physical breakers in the tier w/ much ease and will still lose to the grass types or hard special hitters most of the time. The one set I saw problematic was cm iron defense whirlpool rest which is p damn annoying but it's not something regular slowbro can't run, only difference is this one can be crit but rofl relying on critting set up mons to beat them isn't really something you should do.

It's an awkward mon to talk about, I don't personally see it as something I'd want banned tho.




Alowak is pretty alright I suppose, when I used it it didn't really do much, same as when other people used it vs me. It hits pretty hard tho which makes it a decent breaker for certain cores or as a mon that forces stuff like gligar and milo to recover to get in another mon. Ghost/fire is a typing I always liked in terms of resistances and offensive pressure, but very much different from the other ghost/fire types chandelure and blacephalon, alowak is really slow, making it feel way much more underwhelming.

Being able to click a super strong flare blitz w/o recoil is p nice tho, especially vs mega toise bulkier offenses and of course the chance of dropping defense w/ shadow bone is always helpful, not to mention this has access to knock off making it p useful. Also this mon has the looks, making every team look immediately better. Hopefully a way to fully utilize this mon outside of TR teams is discovered cause I'd love to see it more in different types of builds.
 
#17


Slowbro-Mega @ Slowbronite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 12 Def / 196 SpD / 48 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Slack Off
- Scald
- Psyshock

So I've been using Calm Mind Mega Slowbro on a stall team of mine, and this thing is ungodly.

The SpDef is to ensure that Scarf Gardevoir's Moonblast is a 3HKO after rocks, and the Speed is to creep on Banded Snorlax and always outpace Mega Steelix. Even with the minimal Defense investment, most physical attackers in the tier can't get past this thing other than mons like SD Pangoro, Banded Tyrantrum, SD Darkinium Sneasel, and Tsareena. Plus, with the heavy Special Defense investment, after a single Calm Mind, not even some super effective hits can break it as long as it's healthy, which is easy to maintain thanks to pre-mega Regenerator + Slack Off + Cleric support:

252 SpA Sceptile-Mega Leaf Storm vs. +1 252 HP / 196 SpD Slowbro: 296-350 (75.1 - 88.8%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Venusaur Bloom Doom (140 BP) vs. +1 252 HP / 196 SpD Slowbro: 270-320 (68.5 - 81.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Mismagius Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. +1 252 HP / 196 SpD Slowbro: 290-344 (73.6 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

There are some special attackers that still threaten you at +1. Shaymin scares Megabro in general thanks to Seed Flare's SpDef drops, Mega Blastoise can threaten to flinch with Dark Pulse, Specs Yanmega's Bug Buzz 2HKOs, and Life Orb Roserade's Leaf Storm OHKOs after rocks, so the best thing to do against this thing is to offensively pressure it before it can get the...shell rolling. That and Toxic, but stall variants will most likely have Aromatherapy/Heal Bell support.​
 
#18
I know the mega sceptile is amazing train is going heavy, but I would really like to add to it. Due to its ability to get throat chop, this thing becomes a top tier threat immediately. It literally has no counters in the tier. Ive found bronzong to be the most common switch in, bu throatchop 2hkos Bronzong.

Here is a replay of me using Mega Sceptile https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ru-778319291. At turn 11 I was able to ko the bronzong after setting up the sd. This really freed up swellow to go to town on his team (I might have been able to clean his team with just sceptile, but I expected his yanmega to be speed boost). As his only check to sceptile was bronzong, he was doomed from team preview.

This thing really reminds me of Mega Luc in XY OU. There is a counter set for every ,but no reliable check/counter to the pokemon in general. They both hit extremely hard and are almost impossible to tell if its physical or special. They also both outspeed top tier threats in the tier (with sceptiles case, the whole tier). Sceptile doesnt get good boosting special moves, but I still feel that it is a strong comparison.
 
#19

M-Sceptile Eater (Marill) @ Eviolite
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 HP / 60 Atk / 196 Def
Impish Nature
- Toxic
- Play Rough
- Knock Off
- Encore

A similar set/approach was floating around the ladder when M-Sceptile was poking around RU last gen. Sap Sipper Marill is the GOAT M-Scept counter and also I guess debatably can handle Viriz decently well.

On a more serious note, this month's tier drops were pretty fruitful in giving us some pretty busted toys to play around but I would like to echo the majority sentiment here that M-Sceptile is a rather dominant force in the tier with decent set-up opportunity, several variations of physical setups and special nukes that all work equally or near-equally well, and little to no offensive checks outside of Speed Boost Yan, Sneasel (hype), and the few relevant scarfers that currently exist. Florges handles it fairly well considering Iron Tail is for weenies, P2 can generally live any one (sometimes two) hits and KO back with Ice Beam, and Bronzong is a pretty safe defensive check as well except Throat Chop (as a few have said in previous posts) is a really cool option to break through it. Outside of those three, there isn't much else to save your team from not getting throttled by a M-Scept as soon as it gets the chance.

All in all, I think the effects of M-Sceptile on the tier are a lot more clear and devastating honestly despite M-Slowbro and Alolawak both being exceptional in their own rights. It'd be interesting to see if the meta can adapt in any way to overcome the gecko, but I doubt that it can in a way that would be healthy.
 
#20
The way I see it, the fact that we're considering throwing Marill of all things onto our RU builds goes to show how influential Mega Sceptile really has been over this tier so far since its drop, and to be honest, Marill's still overwhelmed by the Swords Dance set as, using the above set for reference, +2 Earthquake 2HKOs after Stealth Rock:

+2 252 Atk Sceptile-Mega Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Marill: 151-178 (43.8 - 51.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
 
#21
Trying to fit in some thoughts that I'll probably edit at some point, but here is where I am at the end of this week:

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There's a couple of ways you can understand a mon being broken, and imo almost all of them are valid. My personal take is when a mon gets an advantage over the meta that is extremely difficult to viably check and/or justify not using. The only two things I can see that would make Sceptile somewhat balanced is that there is some viable counterplay on popular playstyles, and the fact that Sceptile takes up your mega slot. However... that's pretty much it? Feliburn touched on it and it's something a lot of people have seen, but Sceptile takes up the scarfer slot for pretty much every team and completely screws up one of the main ways we have to punish fast threats because it is not bound to using a single move. Instead, Sceptile has the free choice of lures, potential setup, recovery, great coverage that scarfers can't have on top of having significantly more power. The lures are something I find potentially utterly stupid due to the fact that Sceptile can have all this without needing to run that many move beyond its stabs. Oh, you want to revenge Virizion? Aerial Ace takes it down after any move you click, and unlike Tyrantrum you're not punished by locking, or trapped like Gardevoir. Florges? It gets Iron Tail. Escavalier? Nah HP Fire. I love the mon for how fun it makes offence, but at the same time the advantages it gives over the competition are game changing for the tier in a way that there is no comparison and forces you to surrender a lot to beating it. I really do not see this mon being healthy to the metagame.

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This one however, is interesting. My main issue with calling it broken is that, looking at most of my teams composition and just what's being good in the meta at large. I actually do not see the same need to adapt to what would be game changing traits. On one hand yes, Slowbro-Mega gains an absurd level of bulk, and has not insignificant power to back up that physical defence, with great coverage to boot. The problem moreso is that almost all his sets are handled by metagame staples and, contrary to Sceptile, is mostly the one having to do the adapting in games. The other problem I ran into is that, compared to Sceptile again, its attributes aren't as desirable to where you can confidently say this is your top mega pick. Blastoise is still amazingly good right now, definitely a S rank, Ampharos is rising as a wallbreaker with unique abilities in its raw power and typing / bulk. Steelix is still Steelix, great bulk power and a more reliable steel type. Slowbro is obscenely fat, which is honestly annoying for sure, but losing Regen to take hits is big, especially when you don't take them as well as you'd like without. I've seen this calc being thrown around:

+2 252+ Atk Bewear Breakneck Blitz (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro-Mega: 310-366 (78.6 - 92.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

And yeah sure, that living is stupid, but it requires no damage being taken and even then, your Slowbro is largely useless. It did its job, but so did Bewear. So you're still subject to the good old mind games around z-moves. Then you have other wallbreakers including one that just dropped, that abuses its low speed, lack of passive recovery and that rest is really needed to not just drop to status, and all in all I think there's little that makes it broken the way I understand it.

... However, does the meta need it? Well, probably not. It does MegaBro things the way it did in oras, as in tends to make a matchup about itself before anything else, which is extremely painful to consider. Despite coverage issues, it still has enough power and forces you to scout before sending the appropriate wallbreakers, specially the likes of Roserade / Marowak, those that can just slam it but can get slammed on the switch as well. I'm not really blind to its problematic traits, but I'm not fully convinced yet.

(I'm sorry)

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Oh hey, a non-controversial mon! I love this thing lol, it's so cool in the sense that absolutely nothing realistically takes a hit well from this, ghost fire on a non broken mon is an absolutely wonderful offensive typing, and has access to Knock / Wisp / ground or fighting coverage to help it. In my experience it's also a darn good rocker, largely because of how much it leaves scrambling to get out, and how problematic it is to remove hazards on it. I hate everything about Trick Room, but I paired it with Ampharos as a slow-ish wallbreaking duo and it's honestly pretty darn cool bar the ground weakness, they tend to force a lot of pivoting and Marowak gets a lot of free turns on what can somewhat check Ampharos. Honestly has issues obviously, like the fact that its defensive typing is subtly good but its bulk is so bad that er yeah, and the speed is a bit unfort like many said, but dear God if it doesn't satisfy my click a button and see something drop need.


Anyway, that's mostly all for now. I think there's a lot of cool things I've seen this week that are very fun, shoutout to Florges FINALLY getting some appreciation, and other things that I want to test a bit more, but it's been nice seeing a lot of ideas come through :psyglad:
 
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#22
Hi, we decided to do a council vote on Mega Sceptile and Mega Slowbro:


As a result, both Mega Sceptile and Mega Slowbro are banned from RU!
Mega Sceptile was banned unanimously due to its high speed, being able to outspeed almost every viable scarfer and having strong STAB + coverage moves. This pokemon demolishes offensive builds with ease, proving to be a huge strain in teambuilding as well, as it is too versatile for something so fast.

Mega Slowbro, being absurdly bulky for RU, can effectively walls a huge portion of the meta unboosted, which dictated a lot of games ending just by having it. It cant be KOed by almost every physical attacker, and the Calm Mind set becomes unstoppable after two boosts. Mega Slowbro also is a huge block for offensive builds and provides way too much utility for a RU pokemon.


tagging The Immortal to implement the changes. Thanks!
 
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