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Metagame NP: RU Stage 12: Summertime [Darmanitan Quickbanned]
- Thread starter phantom
- Start date
- Status
Greetings.
Can someone explain to me why Barbaracle rose in popularity with Entei around anyway? Were people really that confident in setting up a Shell Smash in front of an Entei locked into Sacred Fire? Because that's what it clicked 80% of the time, and that's ultimately also the reason it was deemed unhealthy or "too much" by the majority of voters. It's not like people used Lum Berry on it either (as far as I know) because it needs Rockium Z to break Milotic. Yes, you can theoretically set up once more in Entei's face in case Barbaracle get's burned but in practise Barbaracle will then be at 40% health (maximum) at that point, which is exactly the amount Extreme Speed does to it at -2 DEF. I guess a general resistance to the increased prevalance of strong normal type priority - i.e. Extreme Speed - as a setup sweeper is valuable, but that can't be the only reason Barbaracle rose to fame. Moreover, resistance to priority is a perk that Barbaracle had going for it before Entei was around as well, being a set up weeper that's resistant to Ice Shard from M-Abomasnow & M-Glalie, and to Extreme Speed from Zygarde-10%. Approaching it from the other direction, Entei isn't even that good a partner for Barbaracle either, because burning Milotic is terrible for it. I find it so weird that Barbaracle saw an upsurge in usage when it did and that it was regarded as such an effective pick in Entei meta. I understand that the instant +2 Speed boost was extremely dangerous in situations but I fail to grasp just how Barbaracle managed to make a splash when there's actually little in the tier that it sets up on comfortably - and Entei wasn't one of those.
So what made Barbaracle so appealing to use if it wasn't Entei? Or if it was: Why exactly was that and what am I missing?
Can someone explain to me why Barbaracle rose in popularity with Entei around anyway? Were people really that confident in setting up a Shell Smash in front of an Entei locked into Sacred Fire? Because that's what it clicked 80% of the time, and that's ultimately also the reason it was deemed unhealthy or "too much" by the majority of voters. It's not like people used Lum Berry on it either (as far as I know) because it needs Rockium Z to break Milotic. Yes, you can theoretically set up once more in Entei's face in case Barbaracle get's burned but in practise Barbaracle will then be at 40% health (maximum) at that point, which is exactly the amount Extreme Speed does to it at -2 DEF. I guess a general resistance to the increased prevalance of strong normal type priority - i.e. Extreme Speed - as a setup sweeper is valuable, but that can't be the only reason Barbaracle rose to fame. Moreover, resistance to priority is a perk that Barbaracle had going for it before Entei was around as well, being a set up weeper that's resistant to Ice Shard from M-Abomasnow & M-Glalie, and to Extreme Speed from Zygarde-10%. Approaching it from the other direction, Entei isn't even that good a partner for Barbaracle either, because burning Milotic is terrible for it. I find it so weird that Barbaracle saw an upsurge in usage when it did and that it was regarded as such an effective pick in Entei meta. I understand that the instant +2 Speed boost was extremely dangerous in situations but I fail to grasp just how Barbaracle managed to make a splash when there's actually little in the tier that it sets up on comfortably - and Entei wasn't one of those.
So what made Barbaracle so appealing to use if it wasn't Entei? Or if it was: Why exactly was that and what am I missing?
Barbarcle had existed at the edges of the metagame's consciousness before Entei arrived, but in the scramble to deal with it after it was unbanned people started to take note however. Barbarcle is a great mon independent of Entei, and you're right, Entei leaving doesn't affect it too much, since setting up smash on Sacred Fire was always suboptimal, and while Entei's Espeed could give it setup, it could also make for an annoying RKO after setting up on something like Gardevoir's Moonblast. The main reason people used it was basically to deter Entei from clicking Sacred Fire, and it did work to that extent. But essentially, the answer is people went hunting for novel ways to adapt to the meta, and found something much better than they anticipated in the process of trying.
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Yo, from my little RU experience, also because I used a Barbaracle+Hwish garde team during the suspect to get reqs I can say that many times you can try riskly to boost Barbaracle under Entei because if you get burned you can basically restore barbaracle and try to sweep again under certain pokemon where Barbaracle can take some hit, like Snorlax, Gardevoir, Florges, Noivern (It depends by the set) and some other choiced pokemon ( I don't remember all the possible statup field of Barbaracle). Entei so sometimes was a statup field of Barbaracle and maybe Entei for this reason contributed to the rising in usage of Barbaracle, also because you can statup on Entei when locked on things like stone edge or extreme speed. The best way to play Barbaracle maybe is Screen HO+some Stallbreaker to avoid of getting walled by Quagsire of Pyukumuku (if Barbaracle has substitute, Pyukumuku is not a big problem). I think that Barbaracle now deserves a suspect at least, but in my opinion I would wait next tier shift or basically how the metagame runs without Entei and if Barbaracle's usage decreases a bit.
Barbaracle is an excellent sweeper, period, and I don't think it was the Entei meta that made it rise to prominence so much as it was Barbaracle being "discovered", especially with kinds of team support that just weren't that common (screens and offensive memento Gardevoir) beforehand. Similar to how Golisopod got discovered - we all kind of thought it was mediocre until suddenly we all collectively realized it wasn't. The thing that caused Barbaracle to rise to prominence is its ability to dismantle a lot of balance and offense teams with a single turn of set-up, being incredibly strong, incredibly fast, and resistant to priority. I would also like to add that a burnt Barbaracle can still clean plenty of offense, which can make setting up on Sacred Fire less of a risk.
Barbaracle saw respectable usage in RUPL despite Entei not being legal, sitting above mons like Feraligatr and Meloetta, neither of whom I think was specifically bad in the RUPL metagame, and Ninetales, who was also "newly discovered" and highly effective. Usage of Barb has certainly ticked up since then, and while I think some of this can just be attributed to the general way players tend to gravitate to new set, a lot of it just has to do with Barbaracle being that effective at turning one free turn into a win, especially if it just so happens to have the right move (protect for Golisopod, Aerial Ace for Chesnaught/Toxicroak/Virizion, etc).
Some other trends I think helped Barbaracle - Roserade, while always an effective spiker, feels considerably more prominent, Doublade and Bewear kind of fell off the face of the earth, Memento is being viewed as a legitimate move over Healing Wish on Gardevoir, and a meta shift away from stall being good or even really decent.
First time poster, will probably stick around the tier for a while. To answer, Barbacle has numerous opportunities to set up and clean, particularly late game. It wasn't just Entei that made it popular, but look at stuff like Choice Scarfed Gardevoir and other mons that fail to take it out either prior to a Shell Smash, or even after one. Barbacle can teamup with many mons that can lure its threats to slowly get chipped away so that Barbacle can eventually clean. And given that the amount of reliable priority in RU is less than a tier like UU, revenge killing near endgame is usually quite difficult to steer towards/prepare for.
So I gave RU a first try since gen 6 and I reached 1400s (sounds like it's an achievement lul) so I'm gonna post a couple mons that are rare and I've had fun with these last weeks.
Mismagius @ Electrium Z
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 8 Def / 248 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Taunt
If you really hate Snorlax use this, it's fun as heck. Even tho mono-Ghost is not a quite good typing it has its merits. Gigavolt Havoc OHKO Spdef Milo at +2 and OHKO's Blastoise after rocks. It 1v1s Cress, Porygon2, Mandibuzz, Bronzong and Registeel breaking through some defensive cores while 105 speed allows to revenge-kill Roserade, Shaymin, Toxicroak, or Ninetales after prior damage. It's a bit weak unboosted, but it's still underrated and underexplored.
Whimsicott @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Moonblast
- Encore
- U-turn
- Tailwind/Memento
Ladder always sets up vs this, never switches on the Encore, and gives you the free U-turn, always. I can see why this mon can be considered bad as it doesn't have a proper way to offensively pressure the opponent, but it's still a cool asset for fat teams that needs speed control while checking zydog, Pangoro, Virizion or Tyrantrum. Priority Tailwind can be a huge asset lategame for any wallbreaker to sweep while Memento can give a free set up to mons Linoone or Barbaracle for example.
Lanturn @ Assault Vest
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 212 SpA / 96 SpD / 200 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
Entei banned means all fire mons are special attackers(fuck you Marowak) and Lanturn can beat em all. 220 allows Lanturn to outspeed adamant Bewear while 212 SpA modest has a 92,4% chance to 2HKO phys def Milotic and the rest of the EVs goes to SpDef to maximize the use of AV. Residual damage sucks but it needs the Special Attack EVs to 2HKO Blastoise. It takes on Salazzle, Rotom-H, Swellow and eats a Solar Beam from a +2 Ninetales. I recommend to use cleric support for obvious reasons.
Wall of calcs:
+2 252 SpA Ninetales Solar Beam vs. 0 HP / 96 SpD Assault Vest Lanturn: 282-334 (72.1 - 85.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 96 SpD Assault Vest Lanturn: 151-178 (38.6 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Mega Launcher Blastoise-Mega Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 96 SpD Assault Vest Lanturn: 110-130 (28.1 - 33.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Palossand @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Water Compaction
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Stealth Rocks / Shadow Ball
- Shore Up
Checks Toxicroak, Linoone, Bewear, Zydog, Tyrantrum, Steelix and Medicham. Really cool glue mon with Rocks+reliable recovery, I feel Shadow Ball is not really necessary on RU and HP Ice is way more useful to hit Dog, Gligar, Honchkrow and Flygon. Toxic is another option to cripple Mandibuzz, Porygon2 or Milotic to recover off any hit. Water Compaction is mostly useless though, as Barbaracle at +2 and Gator OHKO with Liquidation.
Mismagius @ Electrium Z
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 8 Def / 248 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Taunt
If you really hate Snorlax use this, it's fun as heck. Even tho mono-Ghost is not a quite good typing it has its merits. Gigavolt Havoc OHKO Spdef Milo at +2 and OHKO's Blastoise after rocks. It 1v1s Cress, Porygon2, Mandibuzz, Bronzong and Registeel breaking through some defensive cores while 105 speed allows to revenge-kill Roserade, Shaymin, Toxicroak, or Ninetales after prior damage. It's a bit weak unboosted, but it's still underrated and underexplored.
Whimsicott @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Moonblast
- Encore
- U-turn
- Tailwind/Memento
Ladder always sets up vs this, never switches on the Encore, and gives you the free U-turn, always. I can see why this mon can be considered bad as it doesn't have a proper way to offensively pressure the opponent, but it's still a cool asset for fat teams that needs speed control while checking zydog, Pangoro, Virizion or Tyrantrum. Priority Tailwind can be a huge asset lategame for any wallbreaker to sweep while Memento can give a free set up to mons Linoone or Barbaracle for example.
Lanturn @ Assault Vest
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 212 SpA / 96 SpD / 200 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
Entei banned means all fire mons are special attackers
Wall of calcs:
+2 252 SpA Ninetales Solar Beam vs. 0 HP / 96 SpD Assault Vest Lanturn: 282-334 (72.1 - 85.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 96 SpD Assault Vest Lanturn: 151-178 (38.6 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Mega Launcher Blastoise-Mega Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 96 SpD Assault Vest Lanturn: 110-130 (28.1 - 33.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Palossand @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Water Compaction
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Stealth Rocks / Shadow Ball
- Shore Up
Checks Toxicroak, Linoone, Bewear, Zydog, Tyrantrum, Steelix and Medicham. Really cool glue mon with Rocks+reliable recovery, I feel Shadow Ball is not really necessary on RU and HP Ice is way more useful to hit Dog, Gligar, Honchkrow and Flygon. Toxic is another option to cripple Mandibuzz, Porygon2 or Milotic to recover off any hit. Water Compaction is mostly useless though, as Barbaracle at +2 and Gator OHKO with Liquidation.
Bronzong @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 28 Def / 228 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Psywave
- Toxic
- Grass Knot
I made this set specifically to deal a bit better with Barbaracle as a secondary soft-check, thanks to this spread you'll survive 100% of the time Tough Claws Liquidation from +2 Barbaracle so you can HKO back it with Grass Knot.
Calcs
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Barbaracle Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 28 Def Bronzong: 268-316 (79.2 - 93.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Bronzong Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. -1 0 HP / 0 SpD Barbaracle: 324-384 (113.6 - 134.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(unboosted) 0 SpA Bronzong Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Barbaracle: 216-256 (75.7 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Katy
Banned deucer.
I can see thi set, which will put in alot work to be honest:
Meloetta @ Normalium Z
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Celebrate
- Hyper Voice / Relic Song
- Focus Blast
- Psychic / Psyshock
When Z Celebrate Meloetta proves to be viable I think we see alot more scarfers in the tier to, which are above 90 Base Speed.
Possible Checks are Duoblade, Spdef Cresselia and Guardevoir. Florges can also tank hits due to it's high SpDef.
Golisopod can also be an Option with Banded First Impression to take out weakened Meloetta.
And more fun set, physical Meloetta:
Meloetta @ Normalium Z
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Celebrate
- Return
- Zen Headbutt
- Close Combat
Since Normalium Z Celebrate boost every stat to +1 I think a physical Set or a mixed Set can put in work too.
The problem I see with physical Z-Celebrate Meloetta is that either
A: You need two turns and two moveslots, one for Relic Song and one for Celebrate, or
B: You're using up your Z move to give a +1 boost to a mon with base 77 Attack.
Mixed sets seem questionable, too, as there's very few mons that can take Meloetta's special coverage but not its physical coverage. Even Snorlax only takes slightly more from CC than Focus Blast.
@KW: Meloetta's Pirouette form can only be accessed by using Relic Song.
A: You need two turns and two moveslots, one for Relic Song and one for Celebrate, or
B: You're using up your Z move to give a +1 boost to a mon with base 77 Attack.
Mixed sets seem questionable, too, as there's very few mons that can take Meloetta's special coverage but not its physical coverage. Even Snorlax only takes slightly more from CC than Focus Blast.
@KW: Meloetta's Pirouette form can only be accessed by using Relic Song.
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Pinboim3
Rain days are the worst
Meloetta with Z-Celebrate seems very interesting and kinda difficult to deal with, as only only Salazzle outspeeds it a +1 and Meloetta gets an huge Sp.Def stat and a good Def. stat, making it harder to kill.
Meloetta @ Normalium Z
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Celebrate
- Relic Song
- Return
- Close Combat
Having a already hig Sp atk at +1(like 430 with 0 investment), this thing will just Z and use relic song almost freely as the pokemon that can usually wall the special set, like most of steel types and special walls struggle against the phyical set. This set problem is that it needs Stealth Rock and Spike Support to OHKO some mons that after the defense drops can revenge kill and also the lack of recovery. Main Checks and Counters i see for this set are Doublade(but i can also see Knock Off being used instead of Return), Florges, Chesnaught and Cresselia. This set can still be good but the Sp.Atk is the one i see causing more problem in the tier.
Meloetta @ Normalium Z
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Celebrate
- Relic Song
- Return
- Close Combat
Having a already hig Sp atk at +1(like 430 with 0 investment), this thing will just Z and use relic song almost freely as the pokemon that can usually wall the special set, like most of steel types and special walls struggle against the phyical set. This set problem is that it needs Stealth Rock and Spike Support to OHKO some mons that after the defense drops can revenge kill and also the lack of recovery. Main Checks and Counters i see for this set are Doublade(but i can also see Knock Off being used instead of Return), Florges, Chesnaught and Cresselia. This set can still be good but the Sp.Atk is the one i see causing more problem in the tier.
Paris (Meloetta) @ Normalium Z
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Celebrate
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball
I've been running with special celebrate meloetta with the same coverage used by the CM set with Doublade + Spike support with some success. Messed with a physical celebrate variant but it's just bad if it can't get a lucky sleep or has momento support, really. Also, of course it's easier to revenge after the cc's.
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Celebrate
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball
I've been running with special celebrate meloetta with the same coverage used by the CM set with Doublade + Spike support with some success. Messed with a physical celebrate variant but it's just bad if it can't get a lucky sleep or has momento support, really. Also, of course it's easier to revenge after the cc's.
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yada yada dead thread yada yada here's some observations
I'd say Hidden Power Ice has easily become the best "filler" coverage move on Life Orb Shaymin, likely OHKOing all but the bulkiest of Noivern, which is a mon I'm surprised to see people switch so confidently into it. It's not like Psychic has some super important use itself; HP Ice still 2HKOes Roserade and deals still-respectable damage to Virizion and Chesnaught.
Salazzle is still deadly. It loves the uptick in Florges usage and makes for an amazing Blastoise partner. It never outright sweeps, but considering it a sweeper is just the wrong way to look at it; it's more of a wallbreaker that claims a mon or two whenever given the leeway to set up and can boast additional utility if it chooses Taunt or Knock Off for the last move. Taunt in particular makes it a massive problem for Pyukumuku stall.
As strongly evidenced by this Snake Draft game, Dragon Tail is generally a better phazing move than Haze; it allows Milotic to better keep Toxicroak at bay and assuredly beat sweepers it can take a hit from rather than going down to an unboosted attack right after. Haze still has use if you find yourself somehow weak to Fairy, though.
With how all-over-the-place Roserade and Shaymin are, I can see these two getting more love in the near future. Goodra proves useful whether it's Specs or Scarf (as I've posted about here) and Dragalge makes Roserade quite the liability and forces switches to exploitable mons, though it's no Shaymin counter and can be tricky to fit, especially with Dragonium Z.
I'd say Hidden Power Ice has easily become the best "filler" coverage move on Life Orb Shaymin, likely OHKOing all but the bulkiest of Noivern, which is a mon I'm surprised to see people switch so confidently into it. It's not like Psychic has some super important use itself; HP Ice still 2HKOes Roserade and deals still-respectable damage to Virizion and Chesnaught.
Salazzle is still deadly. It loves the uptick in Florges usage and makes for an amazing Blastoise partner. It never outright sweeps, but considering it a sweeper is just the wrong way to look at it; it's more of a wallbreaker that claims a mon or two whenever given the leeway to set up and can boast additional utility if it chooses Taunt or Knock Off for the last move. Taunt in particular makes it a massive problem for Pyukumuku stall.
As strongly evidenced by this Snake Draft game, Dragon Tail is generally a better phazing move than Haze; it allows Milotic to better keep Toxicroak at bay and assuredly beat sweepers it can take a hit from rather than going down to an unboosted attack right after. Haze still has use if you find yourself somehow weak to Fairy, though.
With how all-over-the-place Roserade and Shaymin are, I can see these two getting more love in the near future. Goodra proves useful whether it's Specs or Scarf (as I've posted about here) and Dragalge makes Roserade quite the liability and forces switches to exploitable mons, though it's no Shaymin counter and can be tricky to fit, especially with Dragonium Z.
It's been actually forever since someone posted, but here's a Meloetta set I've found to be effective on the ladder - pretty sure someone else mentioned the idea in discord before Meloetta even came out.
CM Celebrate
(Meloetta) @ Normalium Z
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Celebrate
- Hyper Voice
- Shadow Ball / Focus Blast
- Calm Mind
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Celebrate
- Hyper Voice
- Shadow Ball / Focus Blast
- Calm Mind
This set lets me maintain some of CM meloetta's usefulness by keeping Hyper Voice + CM around to break down some slower teams, while letting me use Z-Celebrate to clean vs a lot of faster offensive teams. I've personally been using Shadow Ball to ensure I can clean vs offensive teams featuring ghosts like Doublade.
Other interesting uses for this item I haven't seen are Psyshock/Focus Blast/Thunderbolt as move choices (to beat Mandibuzz and potentially some chipped bulky waters) or just Psyshock Thunderbolt CM. Feels very threatening and I think it's sort of an underexplored threat.
Some other ladder observations both from playing and watching; It feels like a lot of Noiverns are running 3 attacks again, which I'm not a fan of personally, Mega Steelix seems to be be back to the most used steel which means a lot of teams that just kind of crumble against Abomasnow/Vanilluxe, which is in line with an uptick of both being used from my experience - which highlights just how hard it can be to build a successful team with either. Seeing a lot of special walls - P2, Umbreon, Florges - but I can't place why.
RU Stall seems to be in a horrible spot atm as well, with niche mons like Kingdra, Pangoro (should be band), and Houndoom effortlessly beating several variants and less niche mons like Bewear, Toxicroak, and Ninetales giving other variants headaches. It just doesn't feel possibly to cover all the breakers and still have a cohesive team, and some of the weird ladder techs I've seen, like Gigalith for Ninetales/Houndoom, oftentimes prevent you from being able to use other stall staples.
Barbaracle, Tyrantrum, Gligar (although you can burn this), Noivern, and Zygarde (if you're physdef and at full, you comfortably live TA to Burn it, then stall it out), it does give Pokemon like Virizion, Toxicroak, Doublade, Mega Abomasnow, and Chesnaught another check thanks to Intimidate. I could also see Banded sets with Wild Charge being used to blow through the many Waters in the tier, and Close Combat for Tyrantrum and Snorlax.
I'll make this post discussing the 3 new toys we have at our disposal:
Seismitoad @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Scald
- Toxic
This set literally comes from the old RU analysis. While the spread may change, the moves likely won't. Seismitoad was C-tier back then in RU, and I'm sure it'll remain like that for the rest of this gen provided it doesn't rise again. More exciting for NU players, but still. Knock Off could be an option too but 4MSS exists.
(I'm using this image because I think its cool as hell, okay?)
Mantine @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Roost
- Defog
- Haze / Toxic
Mantine was quite good back when we still had it, and having more hazard removers is always great. You can run Air Slash to hit Grasses and Fighters, but I don't know what move that would be a good replacement for.
Arcanine is a bit more interesting, at least in terms of the ways it could potentially go. Offensive sets face mighty competition from Emboar, who isn't even that great right now, but E-Speed is nice for an offensive attacker, it has good coverage moves in Close Combat and Wild Charge, and Flash Fire could make it a good Ninetales switch-in. The only real ways I see offensive Arc going are Band and Morning Sun + 3 attacks. Intimidate Arcanine is also an option, more so on defensive varieties, which could serve as a decent check to a lot of physical attackers here, though I'm not sure if even max defense Arcanine can survive a -1 Stone Edge from the likes of Virizion and Toxicroak.
Seismitoad @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Scald
- Toxic
This set literally comes from the old RU analysis. While the spread may change, the moves likely won't. Seismitoad was C-tier back then in RU, and I'm sure it'll remain like that for the rest of this gen provided it doesn't rise again. More exciting for NU players, but still. Knock Off could be an option too but 4MSS exists.
(I'm using this image because I think its cool as hell, okay?)
Mantine @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Roost
- Defog
- Haze / Toxic
Mantine was quite good back when we still had it, and having more hazard removers is always great. You can run Air Slash to hit Grasses and Fighters, but I don't know what move that would be a good replacement for.
Arcanine is a bit more interesting, at least in terms of the ways it could potentially go. Offensive sets face mighty competition from Emboar, who isn't even that great right now, but E-Speed is nice for an offensive attacker, it has good coverage moves in Close Combat and Wild Charge, and Flash Fire could make it a good Ninetales switch-in. The only real ways I see offensive Arc going are Band and Morning Sun + 3 attacks. Intimidate Arcanine is also an option, more so on defensive varieties, which could serve as a decent check to a lot of physical attackers here, though I'm not sure if even max defense Arcanine can survive a -1 Stone Edge from the likes of Virizion and Toxicroak.
I'm really excited to see Arcanine FINALLY be viable this generation! I agree with Melons-N-Soda in that I feel like we'll be seeing more offensive sets than defensive ones. It's like a mini-Entei, except it exchanges Sacred Fire for a much better offensive and defensive movepool. Unlike most Fire-type Pokemon, Arcanine has the tools to deal with the bulky Water-types in RU thanks to Wild Charge. Power that shit up with Electrium-Z and watch those Water-types drop.
- 252+ Atk Arcanine Gigavolt Havoc (175 BP) vs. 136 HP / 0 Def Blastoise-Mega: 318-376 (95.4 - 112.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
- 252+ Atk Arcanine Gigavolt Havoc (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Milotic: 312-368 (79.1 - 93.4%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Mantine's back! I remember this being good back when it was RU. A Defogger with great special bulk and stops setup sweepers is always a plus. I'm less excited for this one's return, but it's cool to see it in a tier where it'll put in some work.
Thought I'd give my quick thoughts on the drops.
I'm actually fairly mixed on Arcanine right now, despite being initially very excited about it. I think it's a good Pokémon that isn't particularly outstanding, but something about it feels very awkward to actually fit on a team. The speed tier and coverage are nice and Flash Fire is a great ability in a tier with Ninetales in it, but something about it doesn't feel quite right. I've been experimenting with Morning Sun + 3 Attacks LO and Band and they both have a lot of good and bad that seems to balance out into something above average. 95 speed is excellent in this meta, outpacing non-scarf Roserade and being able to force it out consistently is a huge boon (though Roserade can KO it with Sludge Bomb after Rocks, making it way more of a shaky check than a somewhat bulky fire type with recovery should actually be), and the recovery combined with Arcanine's coverage is very nice to give yourself lots of opportunities to heal. The number one downside I have with Life Orb + 3 Attacks is it's surprisingly weak, especially if you click something other than Flare Blitz. Wild Charge gets the job done most of the time, but it's not enough to threaten a KO on something like toise even after a round of rocks, and it's a bad roll to KO Milotic. Close Combat has a similar issue, although not as much due to the higher BP. Lastly, between Life Orb and Flare Blitz/Wild Charge, Arcanine's survivability is really low and I've found so many turns where I need to heal but also need to get a valuable kill, which, combined with mono fire being bad defensively and a nasty stealth rocks weakness, makes actually sending in Arcanine pretty hard. It could probably be cool on voltturn, but I think there's better options there.
Choice Band trades the recoil for enough power to really matter, but it also removes the ability to switch up moves. This is obvious, but it's a big deal for something like Arcanine that relies on its coverage to really be threatening, and there's always something that can switch into it regardless of what move it locks into. The same issues with survivability are still present and even worse here, the added power means more recoil. ESpeed is a nice bonus to let itself pick off weakened faster Pokémon, but it still can't switch into enough to make use of it and I've found that you either have to double it in or just sac something and go for it. It makes me wonder how worth it it would be to give up the speed tier and just use Emboar, which hits much harder and has a few more options to switch in while packing more or less what CB Arcanine brings to the table. However, the speed tier is still very nice for a wallbreaker, but in my mind CB has a few other glaring flaws that make it not worth using unless you want to explicitly build around it. Fat sets are a cool idea, but it's stuck between wanting intimidate to check physical attackers better or wanting flash fire to give it the possibility to switch in on Ninetales if it has to, and it lets Toise/Milotic in for free in just about every scenario. Z-sets seem like a cool idea but pretty impractical unless you don't have another z-mover.
Overall, Arcanine seems cool but the combination of a rocks weakness + recoil moves + relying on guessing right several times to really make any headway makes it more difficult to put on a team or use than I'd like, and Ninetales is probably far more serviceable - Drought means that it's strong enough to forgo coverage on occasion and just click STAB often, and it has a much better option to hit things that'd switch into it in Solar Beam than Arcanine would. If you need a fast physical fire type, go for this, but if you need a strong fire type, pick Ninetales or even Emboar first.
Mantine's back! It's probably the best new drop we have, although there's a bit more competition for a fat water than there was when it left, between Mega Blastoise dropping and Slowking becoming prominent. I still personally hate having a remover be weak to rocks, but it does get the job done more often than not, and it has a lot of other traits in this meta that make it very worthwhile. First off, it's a fantastic switchin to Mega Blastoise, even more so than the average bulky water due to water absorb throwing the risk of being burned and losing healing from leftovers completely out the window. Secondly, and probably more importantly given how much Toxicroak preys on bulky waters, but Air Slash means it can actually threaten Toxicroak as opposed to giving it free turns like other bulky waters it'd be competing for a team slot with. This is huge alone, and also allows it to do decent damage to other prominent Pokémon such as Roserade, Virizion, or Shaymin that might try to switch into it. It still can't 1v1 them, and it's only slightly stronger than, say, Milotic Ice Beam on the last three, but it gives it another option. As a bulky water in general, Mantine has enough unique attributes through its typing or moveset to make it stand out even without defog, although that'll still probably be the bulk of its niche.
This is something I can't see having too much impact on the tier, but it'll probably still see some use for its own unique combination of traits. Water Absorb is nice, but it doesn't really do much to other water types in the tier besides poison them and then give them free reign to do whatever they need to, so if you're looking for a bulky water to do bulky water things this probably isn't it. Seismitoad's main draw is being a fantastic Tyrantrum and Barbaracle switchin, which is always welcome, although the lack of any recovery besides leftovers hurts it a little in that regard. That's... actually it, I can't see Seismitoad playing too much of a role unless you need a way to switch into Tyrantrum and Barbaracle in one slot with rocks, and it'll probably be a niche pick throughout the gen unless something really weird happens.
So yeah, this shift was cool in the sense that we got some Pokémon that weren't either obviously broken or mediocre to bad like usual, and while I don't think any of these three are spectacular (Arcanine's nothing to write home about, Mantine'll be good, Seismitoad is niche) they're still cool additions and options for us to use. Now if only we could pay UU finally giving us Arcanine forwards and give NU Jolteon and/or Donphan.
I'm actually fairly mixed on Arcanine right now, despite being initially very excited about it. I think it's a good Pokémon that isn't particularly outstanding, but something about it feels very awkward to actually fit on a team. The speed tier and coverage are nice and Flash Fire is a great ability in a tier with Ninetales in it, but something about it doesn't feel quite right. I've been experimenting with Morning Sun + 3 Attacks LO and Band and they both have a lot of good and bad that seems to balance out into something above average. 95 speed is excellent in this meta, outpacing non-scarf Roserade and being able to force it out consistently is a huge boon (though Roserade can KO it with Sludge Bomb after Rocks, making it way more of a shaky check than a somewhat bulky fire type with recovery should actually be), and the recovery combined with Arcanine's coverage is very nice to give yourself lots of opportunities to heal. The number one downside I have with Life Orb + 3 Attacks is it's surprisingly weak, especially if you click something other than Flare Blitz. Wild Charge gets the job done most of the time, but it's not enough to threaten a KO on something like toise even after a round of rocks, and it's a bad roll to KO Milotic. Close Combat has a similar issue, although not as much due to the higher BP. Lastly, between Life Orb and Flare Blitz/Wild Charge, Arcanine's survivability is really low and I've found so many turns where I need to heal but also need to get a valuable kill, which, combined with mono fire being bad defensively and a nasty stealth rocks weakness, makes actually sending in Arcanine pretty hard. It could probably be cool on voltturn, but I think there's better options there.
Choice Band trades the recoil for enough power to really matter, but it also removes the ability to switch up moves. This is obvious, but it's a big deal for something like Arcanine that relies on its coverage to really be threatening, and there's always something that can switch into it regardless of what move it locks into. The same issues with survivability are still present and even worse here, the added power means more recoil. ESpeed is a nice bonus to let itself pick off weakened faster Pokémon, but it still can't switch into enough to make use of it and I've found that you either have to double it in or just sac something and go for it. It makes me wonder how worth it it would be to give up the speed tier and just use Emboar, which hits much harder and has a few more options to switch in while packing more or less what CB Arcanine brings to the table. However, the speed tier is still very nice for a wallbreaker, but in my mind CB has a few other glaring flaws that make it not worth using unless you want to explicitly build around it. Fat sets are a cool idea, but it's stuck between wanting intimidate to check physical attackers better or wanting flash fire to give it the possibility to switch in on Ninetales if it has to, and it lets Toise/Milotic in for free in just about every scenario. Z-sets seem like a cool idea but pretty impractical unless you don't have another z-mover.
Overall, Arcanine seems cool but the combination of a rocks weakness + recoil moves + relying on guessing right several times to really make any headway makes it more difficult to put on a team or use than I'd like, and Ninetales is probably far more serviceable - Drought means that it's strong enough to forgo coverage on occasion and just click STAB often, and it has a much better option to hit things that'd switch into it in Solar Beam than Arcanine would. If you need a fast physical fire type, go for this, but if you need a strong fire type, pick Ninetales or even Emboar first.
Arcanine @ Choice Band
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat
- Wild Charge
- Extreme Speed
Arcanine @ Life Orb
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Morning Sun
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat
- Wild Charge
If you really wanted to use a Z-set, use this one and change the Life Orb for whatever you need.
Arcanine @ Leftovers / Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Morning Sun
- Flamethrower
- Toxic
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat
- Wild Charge
- Extreme Speed
Arcanine @ Life Orb
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Morning Sun
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat
- Wild Charge
If you really wanted to use a Z-set, use this one and change the Life Orb for whatever you need.
Arcanine @ Leftovers / Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Morning Sun
- Flamethrower
- Toxic
Mantine's back! It's probably the best new drop we have, although there's a bit more competition for a fat water than there was when it left, between Mega Blastoise dropping and Slowking becoming prominent. I still personally hate having a remover be weak to rocks, but it does get the job done more often than not, and it has a lot of other traits in this meta that make it very worthwhile. First off, it's a fantastic switchin to Mega Blastoise, even more so than the average bulky water due to water absorb throwing the risk of being burned and losing healing from leftovers completely out the window. Secondly, and probably more importantly given how much Toxicroak preys on bulky waters, but Air Slash means it can actually threaten Toxicroak as opposed to giving it free turns like other bulky waters it'd be competing for a team slot with. This is huge alone, and also allows it to do decent damage to other prominent Pokémon such as Roserade, Virizion, or Shaymin that might try to switch into it. It still can't 1v1 them, and it's only slightly stronger than, say, Milotic Ice Beam on the last three, but it gives it another option. As a bulky water in general, Mantine has enough unique attributes through its typing or moveset to make it stand out even without defog, although that'll still probably be the bulk of its niche.
Mantine @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Scald
- Air Slash / Toxic
- Defog / Haze
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Scald
- Air Slash / Toxic
- Defog / Haze
This is something I can't see having too much impact on the tier, but it'll probably still see some use for its own unique combination of traits. Water Absorb is nice, but it doesn't really do much to other water types in the tier besides poison them and then give them free reign to do whatever they need to, so if you're looking for a bulky water to do bulky water things this probably isn't it. Seismitoad's main draw is being a fantastic Tyrantrum and Barbaracle switchin, which is always welcome, although the lack of any recovery besides leftovers hurts it a little in that regard. That's... actually it, I can't see Seismitoad playing too much of a role unless you need a way to switch into Tyrantrum and Barbaracle in one slot with rocks, and it'll probably be a niche pick throughout the gen unless something really weird happens.
Seismitoad @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Scald
- Toxic
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Scald
- Toxic
So yeah, this shift was cool in the sense that we got some Pokémon that weren't either obviously broken or mediocre to bad like usual, and while I don't think any of these three are spectacular (Arcanine's nothing to write home about, Mantine'll be good, Seismitoad is niche) they're still cool additions and options for us to use. Now if only we could pay UU finally giving us Arcanine forwards and give NU Jolteon and/or Donphan.
So after finishing snake there are some thoughts on the metagame I wanted to elaborate on. I touched on some ideas and innovations briefly in the teamdump and elsewhere, but I thought I'd take the time to share some in long form. I'm motivated to do this because I think the discussion surrounding the RU metagame has been stagnant for a bit, and I'm hoping some other snake players and the like will come in and join the conversation. What I'm elucidating in this post are my subjective opinions on the metagame, which I suspect many might think differently from, but hopefully they'll at least spark some discussion.
The status of the metagame as a whole I feel, is one that suffers a bit from overcrowding of threats, and generally forces the builder to either compartmentalize their building with sub-optimal choices, use a specific range of standard team building options, or simply build teams relying more on matchup or elaborate counterplay scenarios. I think top builders in the tier have used all three of the above strategies in recent play, I myself have tended towards the middle, I know players like Col49 have advocated the later most. In my view, most teams generally want to incorporate a Rocker, Hazard Removal, Revenge Killer, Milotic Check, Grass-type Check, Blastoise Check (this is generally several Pokemon combined for non-Milotic builds), and Breaker. Using a diverse range of breakers or expanded offensive core is very hard, as it leaves you vulnerable to the sheer variety of offensive threats in the tier. Specifically, I think the Grass-types, Roserade, Shaymin, and Virizion are overall very pressuring for builds, especially the former two based on there set versatility. Take into account not wanting to have momentum overly stopped by Milotic/ Steel-types, adding a Rocker, and not wanting to be overly Blastoise weak and its somewhat difficult to have more than one Pokemon per build that's not filling a very specific role, if that. Is the solution to suspect something? Many have advocated for as Mega Blastoise suspect. I feel this is not the solution, and if anything, a Blastoise suspect would be harmful for the tier, since it allows more offensive teams some breathing room by compressing a fairly versatile attacker with hazard removal in one slot. Furthermore, I think well structured offensive/balance teams can account for it, without going through ridiculously costly sacrifices in teambuilding. The only thing which I screams out to me as being banworthy in particular is Barbarcle, simply because its coverage slot can essentially reduce the game to matchups, or guessing about baiting the Z, while being ridiculously hard for offense to deal with in many cases and not providing much benefit to structuring the remainder of the tier. In general, the way the metagame has balanced makes it hard to ban or single out any one major thing, so I think the trend of the metagame will remain stagnant for a while, and may continue as it is until the end of the generation. With that in mind, I think many players, as well as myself, have had our minds opened to different options to counter the metagame.
I think two Pokemon that are especially interesting in this lens right now are Florges and Cresselia. The former has received a lot more attention than the later, but I think they are very similar in the way they function in the metagame. Florges has gained traction mainly as being a hard Blastoise counter, but ironically it also serves as one of the best Blastoise supports, especially on slower teams, in my opinion, my being able to viably which pass into it. Further, the combination of Wish Florges + Tech options like Refresh Blastoise allows for dynamic counterplay around Registeel balanced builds to break. With full Defense investment Florges is also a semi reliable check to Zygarde-10% and Virizion, though it is very much a check and not a counter. Notably, certain Roserade sets which lack Synthesis as Recovery and/or a Poison move are vulnerable to being stopped by this Florges. The flexibility of Florges in clericing, hard checking so many special attackers, and potentially defogging (which I am very much in favor of if paired with spin Blastoise) certaintly warrant an uptick in its use and rise from the relative obscurity its been in for most of the generation. Cresselia I think is an underlooked option, which has great viability on offense builds of all things, as it is able to check the plethora of "rediscovered" and old fighting types, DD Zygarde-10% and Flygon, other random usually physical attackers, and can check things like SD Virizion, which the team would otherwise need something like one of the extremely few viable scarfers in the tier to check. On top of this, having Lunar Dance makes this thing such a great asset for offense, which I feel really allows it to play more flexibly, and can give more leeway in selecting the other 5 members as well, based on how much you're able to check in one slot, despite being offensive deadweight. Cresselia definitely could use more exploring.
I think in the long run, assuming there is no radical change to shake the metagame up, top level builds will veer more towards metagame counter teaming and relying increasingly on counterplay. I think most top players have already accepted this, as evidenced by the final snake game with Ajna opting for a Lycandusk + Z Gligar build, which leverages offensive synergy against the metagame in exchange for overall defensive sufficiency. I think the builds I used throughout snake reflect more of standard option, but I think that is growing increasingly untenable given the number of dynamic defensive and offensive threats which continue to be discovered, so I see myself to having to resort to more anti-meta / counterplay based builds. A long result of this trend might be the slow de-standardization of building structures, which has already sort of occurred, but could occur further. I anticipate a lot of teams this SPL relying on diverse multifaceted offensive cores, with relatively low overall defensive synergy, and geared towards checking very specific threats/sets rather than the metagame as a whole. But we shall see. This all being said, I think there are a lot of exciting and underexplored cores/ threats, so I do continue to look foward to building. Other players might have different ideas concerning the trajectory of the metagame, which I hope they'll share. Overall, I think there's still a lot of room for innovation in the tier, and I hope to see it continually explored.
The status of the metagame as a whole I feel, is one that suffers a bit from overcrowding of threats, and generally forces the builder to either compartmentalize their building with sub-optimal choices, use a specific range of standard team building options, or simply build teams relying more on matchup or elaborate counterplay scenarios. I think top builders in the tier have used all three of the above strategies in recent play, I myself have tended towards the middle, I know players like Col49 have advocated the later most. In my view, most teams generally want to incorporate a Rocker, Hazard Removal, Revenge Killer, Milotic Check, Grass-type Check, Blastoise Check (this is generally several Pokemon combined for non-Milotic builds), and Breaker. Using a diverse range of breakers or expanded offensive core is very hard, as it leaves you vulnerable to the sheer variety of offensive threats in the tier. Specifically, I think the Grass-types, Roserade, Shaymin, and Virizion are overall very pressuring for builds, especially the former two based on there set versatility. Take into account not wanting to have momentum overly stopped by Milotic/ Steel-types, adding a Rocker, and not wanting to be overly Blastoise weak and its somewhat difficult to have more than one Pokemon per build that's not filling a very specific role, if that. Is the solution to suspect something? Many have advocated for as Mega Blastoise suspect. I feel this is not the solution, and if anything, a Blastoise suspect would be harmful for the tier, since it allows more offensive teams some breathing room by compressing a fairly versatile attacker with hazard removal in one slot. Furthermore, I think well structured offensive/balance teams can account for it, without going through ridiculously costly sacrifices in teambuilding. The only thing which I screams out to me as being banworthy in particular is Barbarcle, simply because its coverage slot can essentially reduce the game to matchups, or guessing about baiting the Z, while being ridiculously hard for offense to deal with in many cases and not providing much benefit to structuring the remainder of the tier. In general, the way the metagame has balanced makes it hard to ban or single out any one major thing, so I think the trend of the metagame will remain stagnant for a while, and may continue as it is until the end of the generation. With that in mind, I think many players, as well as myself, have had our minds opened to different options to counter the metagame.
I think two Pokemon that are especially interesting in this lens right now are Florges and Cresselia. The former has received a lot more attention than the later, but I think they are very similar in the way they function in the metagame. Florges has gained traction mainly as being a hard Blastoise counter, but ironically it also serves as one of the best Blastoise supports, especially on slower teams, in my opinion, my being able to viably which pass into it. Further, the combination of Wish Florges + Tech options like Refresh Blastoise allows for dynamic counterplay around Registeel balanced builds to break. With full Defense investment Florges is also a semi reliable check to Zygarde-10% and Virizion, though it is very much a check and not a counter. Notably, certain Roserade sets which lack Synthesis as Recovery and/or a Poison move are vulnerable to being stopped by this Florges. The flexibility of Florges in clericing, hard checking so many special attackers, and potentially defogging (which I am very much in favor of if paired with spin Blastoise) certaintly warrant an uptick in its use and rise from the relative obscurity its been in for most of the generation. Cresselia I think is an underlooked option, which has great viability on offense builds of all things, as it is able to check the plethora of "rediscovered" and old fighting types, DD Zygarde-10% and Flygon, other random usually physical attackers, and can check things like SD Virizion, which the team would otherwise need something like one of the extremely few viable scarfers in the tier to check. On top of this, having Lunar Dance makes this thing such a great asset for offense, which I feel really allows it to play more flexibly, and can give more leeway in selecting the other 5 members as well, based on how much you're able to check in one slot, despite being offensive deadweight. Cresselia definitely could use more exploring.
I think in the long run, assuming there is no radical change to shake the metagame up, top level builds will veer more towards metagame counter teaming and relying increasingly on counterplay. I think most top players have already accepted this, as evidenced by the final snake game with Ajna opting for a Lycandusk + Z Gligar build, which leverages offensive synergy against the metagame in exchange for overall defensive sufficiency. I think the builds I used throughout snake reflect more of standard option, but I think that is growing increasingly untenable given the number of dynamic defensive and offensive threats which continue to be discovered, so I see myself to having to resort to more anti-meta / counterplay based builds. A long result of this trend might be the slow de-standardization of building structures, which has already sort of occurred, but could occur further. I anticipate a lot of teams this SPL relying on diverse multifaceted offensive cores, with relatively low overall defensive synergy, and geared towards checking very specific threats/sets rather than the metagame as a whole. But we shall see. This all being said, I think there are a lot of exciting and underexplored cores/ threats, so I do continue to look foward to building. Other players might have different ideas concerning the trajectory of the metagame, which I hope they'll share. Overall, I think there's still a lot of room for innovation in the tier, and I hope to see it continually explored.
Well, I guess you RU players haven't been so nice this year, a lot of fairly likely Christmas presents to UU this year. Probably should have stopped using Jolteon.^^
On a more serious note, what are your thoughts regarding the potential losses?
| 34 | Gligar | 6.008% |
| 41 | Chesnaught | 5.335% |
| 49 | Doublade | 3.872% |
| 51 | Froslass | 3.621% |
| 52 | Steelix-Mega | 3.491% |
| 55 | Rotom-Mow | 3.264% |
| 56 | Quagsire | 3.238% |
| 57 | Blastoise-Mega | 2.906% |
On a more serious note, what are your thoughts regarding the potential losses?
| 34 | Gligar | 6.008% |
| 41 | Chesnaught | 5.335% |
| 49 | Doublade | 3.872% |
| 51 | Froslass | 3.621% |
| 52 | Steelix-Mega | 3.491% |
| 55 | Rotom-Mow | 3.264% |
| 56 | Quagsire | 3.238% |
| 57 | Blastoise-Mega | 2.906% |
I am so looking forward to using Raikou. It will no doubt be one of the best late game sweepers in the tier, with its classic SubCM set able to use Porygon2, Florges defensive Shaymin as set up fodder. I can also see a CM + 3 attacks set with Fightinium Z - most of its checks like Rhyperior, Mega Steelix, Umbreon, Snorlax and Registeel take massive damage from a +1 Z-Aura Sphere, though it does mean you have to run a Rash nature. Virizion will be a great partner for it, as it can take out most of the Pokemon that give Raikou trouble, whereas Raikou can take out the Flying types Virizion is 4X weak to.
- Status