Metagame NP: RU Stage 16: Recharge & Revolt [Mega Sceptile unbanned]

[phantom]

The RU Council has decided to retest Mega Sceptile.

After a week on the RU ladder, the council has determined that Mega Sceptile is worthy of a retest. Mega Sceptile’s poor bulk and lack of switch-in opportunities make it difficult for Mega Sceptile to take advantage of its offensive stats, as unlike other offensive Grass-types, it’s incapable of checking Mega Blastoise or even switching in on defensive Waters given its inability to withstand a single Ice Beam. It’s stab options are either lacking in power or come at a disadvantage after a single use, making it possible to play around. With growing popularity of Pokémon like Florges, Metagross, Ice Shard Donphan, and Mandibuzz, Sceptile-mega has become easier to check, warranting a retest.

There will be no suspect ladder. Instead we will use the normal RU ladder which will remain open for the duration of the test with Mega Sceptile unbanned. A message will pop up at the beginning of ladder games to indicate that the suspect is going on (Tagging Marty to implement, thank you!). Anyone who wishes to participate in this suspect test will use a newly-made alt with a suspect-specific tag to indicate that you are trying to achieve reqs. The requirements for this suspect test are the following:

• All games must be played on the Pokemon Showdown! RU ladder on a new alt with the following format: "RUSMS (nickname)" For example, I might register the alt RUSMS phantom to ladder with.
• Do NOT impersonate other people in your ladder alt, do NOT use any usernames which are offensive, flame-baiting, or targeting specific users, and do NOT use usernames which could be interpreted as breaking any of the username rules on Pokemon Showdown! Failure to abide to this will result in you being barred from voting in this suspect, and potential infractions.
• To qualify for voting, your alt must play either minimum 40 games with a minimum GXE of 80 or 35 games with a minimum GXE of 82

The suspect test will last for 10 days, ending on Wednesday, May 1st at 23:59 EST.

/!\ NOTICE /!\ RU will not be tolerating any form of voting manipulation. Any attempt to manipulate votes can result in an infraction, loss of eligibility to vote in the current test, and loss of the Tiering Contributor badge. While we won't necessarily enforce super strict punishment, this won't be tolerated and will be handled accordingly. Voting manipulation can simply be described as attempting to get people to vote a way on the test in inappropriate manners. Bribing with teams to vote a certain way, directly messaging people to vote a certain way, publicly announcing "vote this way" all fall under voting manipulation. For more query feel free to PM me.

 

[TopTierOUThreats6]

Mega Sceptile should fall to RU or possibly even NUBL. I think this because there isn't a shortage of Grass type competiton, wether thats Virizion or Roserade, or even Mega Abomasnow. Also there is a tonne of priority in this tier, such as Donphan's Ice Shard, which completley ends any sweep Mega Sceptile tries to offer. Its STAB combination also leaves common Steel checks able to put it into a slow painful death, such as Registeel and Assault Vest Metagross. With all this Grass type competition, Ice type moves, and Steel type checks, I think Mega Sceptile isn't too powerful for RU.

 

[snow]

edit: Seriously my thoughts are that Mega Sceptile is in no way broken, in order for it to not remain in the tier it should be broken or atleast overcentralising which imo it is not. I did all of these games with Mega Sceptile on my team and the pressure it exudes without revealing it or my set is more than the damage it does when it actually hits the field.

 

[Voyager]

I have played with mega sceptile and really dont think it deserves to be banned. Its a grass type that doesnt hard check mega stoice as it gets OHKO by ice beam and 2HKO by all ita other moves (not rapid spin). It looses to sturdy donphan's ice shard even if donphan has to switch in. If it doesn't run protect golisopod wrecks it with first imrrssion. Scarf salazzle wrecks it unless it is running EQ and gets the predict. All in all i think we should give it a place in RU.

 

[War Incarnate]

OK, NOW I've found out how to play with Mega Sceptile. Good heck; that took me an eternity....

While I would normally disagree with unbanning something that's fast and hits like a truck, I'm gonna have to agree with this one. Mega Sceptile just faces quite a good bit of competition from other grass-types that pack more defensive utility, don't take up your mega slot, are more versatile, and simply take on more meta trends much better. Of course, it does have its advantages over them, such as more immediate power and not being reliant on Life Orb for power, but what I'm saying is that Mega Sceptile doesn't have much utility outside being a revenge killer. At the same time, priority is literally bonkers as frick around here, and thanks to Mega Sceptile's lacking bulk, it folds to these types of moves. Steel-types just hardwall it to no end, and in the case of Metagross, can actually destroy it. Overall, Mega Sceptile has its ups and downs, hence, I say that we should give the Christmas tree a chance.

Also, can I abbreviate my username if said username combined with RUSMS would be longer than 19 characters? For example: RUSMSSteelixPrismGX is 19 characters; the constraint for usernames is that the username has to be less than 19 characters.

Edit: Man, I am not having a good time with Mega Sceptile... Can someone show me some Mega Sceptile sample teams? Or at least give me the link to the RU Sample Teams thread?

 

[Kableye]

OK, NOW I've found out how to play with Mega Sceptile. Good heck; that took me an eternity....

While I would normally disagree with unbanning something that's fast and hits like a truck, I'm gonna have to agree with this one. Mega Sceptile just faces quite a good bit of competition from other grass-types that pack more defensive utility, don't take up your mega slot, are more versatile, and simply take on more meta trends much better. Of course, it does have its advantages over them, such as more immediate power and not being reliant on Life Orb for power, but what I'm saying is that Mega Sceptile doesn't have much utility outside being a revenge killer. At the same time, priority is literally bonkers as frick around here, and thanks to Mega Sceptile's lacking bulk, it folds to these types of moves. Steel-types just hardwall it to no end, and in the case of Metagross, can actually destroy it. Overall, Mega Sceptile has its ups and downs, hence, I say that we should give the Christmas tree a chance.

Also, can I abbreviate my username if said username combined with RUSMS would be longer than 19 characters? For example: RUSMSSteelixPrismGX is 19 characters; the constraint for usernames is that the username has to be less than 19 characters.

your username doesnt have to be your smogon name. it can be RUSMS BigBooty420, you just have to prove that it is you when you post reqs

 

[JustoonSmitts]

I talked about Mega Sceptile in the other thread, but I'll go ahead and post my thoughts again here.

So Mega Sceptile... looking at its stats, it does look broken. 145 Speed outpaces the majority of RU, barring Choice Scarf Pokemon like Shaymin, Flygon, and Noivern. It also has pretty insane offenses, with a base 110 Attack and 145 Special Attack. In practice, Mega Sceptile has a lot of things keeping if from being broken in my eyes.

1) It is very easily handled defensively. While Grass/Dragon STAB is very scary on top of those offenses, RU has a lot of Steel-type Pokemon that can take on both of its STABs with ease. It does have moves like Earthquake, Focus Blast, and Hidden Power Fire to hit these Pokemon, but they don't do very much without some type of boost from Swords Dance or Lightning Rod (which is a REALLY situational ability, by the way. Every relevant Electric-type can beat it despite its immunity.) Here's some calcs for ya:

• 252 SpA Sceptile-Mega Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Registeel: 154-182 (42.3 - 50%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
• 252 Atk Sceptile-Mega Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Registeel: 136-162 (37.3 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
• 252 SpA Sceptile-Mega Hidden Power Fire vs. 76 HP / 0 SpD Metagross: 156-184 (48.7 - 57.5%) -- 94.5% chance to 2HKO
• 252 SpA Sceptile-Mega Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong: 92-109 (27.2 - 32.2%) -- 53% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
• 252 Atk Sceptile-Mega Throat Chop vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Bronzong: 136-162 (40.2 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Mega Sceptile is also walled hard by dedicated defensive Pokemon. Goodra is a bit of a shaky check because while it is immune to Mega Sceptile's Grass-type STAB it cannot really come in on Dragon Pulse. At full, Goodra takes Dragon Pulse and always OHKOs with Draco Meteor. Florges is only 3HKO'd by Leaf Storm and can do 91% minimum back. Snorlax also hard walls Mega Sceptile, even with Focus Blast, and easily sets up in its face. Cresselia and Raikou can also stall out Mega Sceptile with Substitute and Calm Mind. Keep in mind these calcs are counting Stealth Rock damage and without boosting, which Mega Sceptile is going to have a hard time doing because...

2) Its defenses and defensive typing are awful. It may have good offensive stats and a nifty immunity to Electric-types, but Mega Sceptile takes hits like rice paper. It also doesn't help that it has a nasty Ice-weakness on top of 5 more and all of its weaknesses are relatively common. Priority moves like Sucker Punch, Ice Shard, and First Impression are all common sights which is why Mega Sceptile is usually forced to run Protect, making a Swords Dance set a rather lackluster option. Speaking of:

3) Mega Sceptile has a lot of competition. It may provide immediate raw power, Mega Sceptile does face a lot of competition for a team. As a Grass-type, Roserade, Shaymin, and Virizion are arguably better thanks to (respectively) utility in Spikes, stronger STAB combos and options, ability to use other items and Z-Moves, better abilities with Natural Cure, and slightly better defenses than Mega Sceptile. As a Mega Evoution, Mega Blastoise and Mega Ampharos provide a team with more utility like Rapid Spin and a slow Volt Switch. As a Dragon-type, Zygarde-10%, Tyrantrum, Flygon, Goodra, and Dragalge offer (Again) the ability to hold items and use Z-Moves, better defenses, better abilities (Sap Sipper in Goodra's case), better offenses, and stronger utility. Almost all of these Pokemon are pretty splashable on a team, where Mega Sceptile requires a lot of support with a team built around it in order to work. These Pokemon also usually have more than one set because they usually can perform more than one role. This is really Mega Sceptile's only viable set:

Sceptile-Mega @ Sceptilite
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Protect
- Leaf Storm / Giga Drain
- Dragon Pulse
- Focus Blast / Hidden Power Fire / Earthquake

While it does have Swords Dance, Virizion is usually better for the reasons I listed above. That set needs a lot of support just to work and it really needs Protect to beat Golisopod, which sacrifices a coverage move that could beat something else.

That said, Mega Sceptile is still not a bad option. It provides an immediate offensive presence that does threaten offense and balance cores if not properly prepared for. I feel like it could have a place here in RU as a fast wallbreaker. I haven't gotten the reqs yet, but if I do I would vote to UNBAN Mega Sceptile from RU.

 

[phantom]

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/usum-ru-suspect-process-round-7-voting.3649855/#post-8118365
Mega Sceptile is now unbanned! Tagging Marty to update the ladder. Thanks!

We will be taking a brief break from retests. For now, feel free to continue the discussion here:

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/usum-ru-metagame-discussion-mega-sceptile-test.3646905/