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Metagame NP: RU Stage 19: Trap Queen (Baton Pass Banned)
- Thread starter atomicllamas
- Start date
RU's default stance on BP will be OU's during alpha and initial beta, but can be addressed by the council early on, this vote indicates it's something we want to decide ourselves if anything.
No, tiering of SM RU will be done independently when the tier is available.
I'm content with how ORAS have turned out to be, banning Baton Pass is definitely a good step to making bolder decisions in the new tier and keeping this old tier stable. Sad to see Medicham and Mawile's viability take a hit, but the tier in itself is in a healthier state. I don't think anything else is particularly broken in any way, everything is manageable if you build a decent team pretty much.
I really like Escavalier in this metagame, a majority of Venusaur sets are defensive and even offensive sets lack HP Fire so Escavalier acts pretty much as a counter to that. I personally like using a spread that runs a LOT of Speed, enough to outspeed Mega Camerupt and its outspeeding shenanigans, so I can pressure them much more after a Swords Dance. I'm certain that a core of Escavalier + Alomomola + Scarf Drapion is a pretty solid one, as they complement each other not only by typing, but also support-wise.
Escavalier @ Leftovers
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 48 HP / 252 Atk / 208 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Megahorn
- Iron Head
- Drill Run
I used this set in LTPL and I'm 2-1 with it, sometimes I wish I had Knock Off to make sure Jellicent doesn't get a free switch-in, but I like Drill Run especially because it can beat Camerupt and Registeel easily. Iron Head is also nice to beat Diancie especially when Escavalier's weakened because they tend to stay in and KO it with Diamond Storm :p
RIP BP. I can respect bold decisions like that tbh, and in the end not much have been lost in the process (rip mawile, but that kind of died without tyrantrum around anyways). More reasons to use the nasty plot + 2 attacks togetic set, Kushalos special.
Can vouch for that escavalier, I have used it but not with that amount of speed (crazy) but it can puts an inmense on dent because of the bulk and how it can setup in many balance staples (defensive venusaur, diancie, etc) and oh boy, +2 escav hits like a train with no breaks.
And Xatu is cool :>
Can vouch for that escavalier, I have used it but not with that amount of speed (crazy) but it can puts an inmense on dent because of the bulk and how it can setup in many balance staples (defensive venusaur, diancie, etc) and oh boy, +2 escav hits like a train with no breaks.
And Xatu is cool :>
I'd actually like to hear from those of you who didn't post in the thread and voted ban if you have a reason besides not liking it. I'd expect it being "we want to make tiering simpler" but moving forward with clauses we need to do what's best for our tier, not just inherit whatever UU throws at us.
The prevailing argument I see here as to why baton pass was banned was to remove the existing baton pass clause from effect in RU due to it's bad precedent and complexity. This being the case, why ban baton pass instead of simply removing the clause and seeing the effect that has? As stated, RU has never voted on baton pass before and the pro ban side for the most part didn't seem to be claiming that baton pass is broken in RU. Removing BP clause and then banning smeargle seems like the most logical option to me. At that point if endless baton pass chain teams are dominating the meta regardless of which mons are being utilized the move could be suspected, or conversely if there are only one or two problematic abusers they can be suspected. This makes the most sense to me based on the smogon tiers pokemon not moves logic as well as the fact that it was never tested in RU. That being said, it might just be too much change for the end of the generation (i.e. multiple potential suspects), but I would expect this to be how baton pass is looked at for SM RU.
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There are a couple of things that make this endeavor a stretch. Freeing full Baton Pass makes more than just Smeargle an issue, SmashPass and Combusken Pass with Swords Dance or Bulk Up into Xatu becomes a thing as well. Both of those things can be used to support a significantly wider range of targets that aren't gimmicks unlike the things focus energy pass was used to support. I don't think anyone would agree to wanting smashpass back into the tier (unrestricted combusken pass is debatable, though), so if we're just going to make multiple bans for the sake of preserving Baton Pass yet again (i.e. complex ban in smashpass + a smeargle ban), then there really is no point in undoing what was already done. That said, undoing a recently decided vote is imprudent, and the whole process you're proposing seems too arduous and time consuming when the tier is at its final stretches anyway. It will also be difficult to observe the full effects it will have on the meta when the tier will develop at a snail's pace, which matters in identify potentially problematic elements that may arise. Basically, this isn't feasible imo.