Metagame NP: RU Stage 8: Down By The Water [Kommonium Z Banned]

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phantom

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RU Co-Leader
#1
With USM bringing a whole host of changes that will impact RU and upper tiers, RU will be going back to the council system as the tier begins to resettle. Just like at the start of SM, in order to best deal with upcoming tier shifts and handle new, problematic elements to the tier as efficiently as possible, the council system will be in place until the tier is stabilized. During this period, any outliers will be voted on and possibly banned sometime within the next week.

This thread will serve as a general discussion thread on the new metagame. You are free to talk about Pokemon, sets, cores, and teams that you have found effective in the new meta. Try and limit suspect talk, however, as it has only been two days. As a reminder, steer clear of one liners and joke posts and direct any questions to the sq/sa thread.

NP Song:
 

avocado

queen vados
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#2
I wanna start by saying that Clangorous Soulblaze is fucking busted. That thing is a 190 base power z-move that lets it be able to basically not get OHKO'd by anything except an invested, strong fairy move. I'm forced to resort to dumb options to make sure it doesn't set up without at least taking 35% chip damage somehow, and that means making sure all of my team members can hurt it in someway, so that my focus sash sigilyph can revenge kill it with dazzling gleam, which only does 65-78% after it sets up. It's really fucking dumb lol


On the other hand dragon dance kommo-o is super cool. DD/CC/Outrage/EQ is what I'm using with either fightinium or dragonium. I started with fightinium but testing dragonium now to better break past gligar and it's just a really good pokemon in general. It finds a lot of set up opportunities and hits decently hard. This might just be initial hype though, because DD Flygon pretty much does the same thing without having 4mss that kommo has. It has the option to run both a move that hits doublade and a move that hits fairies, without having to pick between the two. But Kommo does have way better bulk, so idk. It's also stronger and doesn't have to rely on outrage as its strongest STAB since it has CC now. I'd say with all the hype kommo is getting its very likely we're gonna lose it pretty quickly since it's making waves in UU as well.


I've also been trying out Tsareena which I've been theorymonning about for quite a while now and she's as good as I expected. 3 attacks life orb is very hard to switch into and hits super hard. The set I'm using is power whip/hjk/knock off/synthesis with life orb, but if you need rapid spin it could go over hjk. To give you an impression of how strong it is it has a solid chance of KOing Gligar if it switches into knock off followed by power whip. It also has a chance to KO Cresselia with knock off + power whip after SR, and its not cucked by doublade because it has to take like 45% as it switches into knock off.

Tsareena @ Life Orb
Ability: Queenly Majesty
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Power Whip
- High Jump Kick
- Knock Off
- Synthesis


Necrozma's been getting a lot of hype lately in RU discord/PS room as well and for good reason, SD Necrozma is looking like a big threat right now with SD/photon geyser/x-scissor/eq since it's hardly walled by anything. And the item could be whatever you want but I've seen all of life orb, buginium z, and groundium z. The set I've been using however is stealth rock + 3 attacks with sr/photon geyser/heat wave/dark pulse, and it's comparable to Nidoqueen in what it does as an offensive SR setter. For the item though, I still don't know what's best but I tried Leftovers and I feel like it's too weak, but I also feel like it needs some sort of recovery. idk. Life Orb and Twisted Spoon are also options I suppose. I tried Twisted Spoon for a little bit just to ensure 2HKO on phys def Gligar and I suppose its cool.

Necrozma @ Leftovers / Twisted Spoon
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Photon Geyser
- Heat Wave
- Dark Pulse
 
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#3
aight I don't want to make a post saying how stupid Kommo-o is because anyone who's played it in the last few days knows for themselves. Instead, I want to bring up this little monster:



In USUM, Gatr didn't really get much in terms of new stuff. It got Liquidation and... well, that's pretty much it. However, this new move seems to be exactly what it needed. It's now able to apply more pressure on walls, and its Dragon Dance set is really only countered by Milotic, which loses to the Swords Dance set. Speaking of Swords Dance, with the surge of Sticky Web teams, it's SD set got a lot better.

idk what else to say lol, it's a good mon that has it easier when it comes to setting up now for some reason

252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Umbreon: 187-222 (47.4 - 56.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Umbreon: 204-242 (51.7 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Feraligatr Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 179-212 (45.4 - 53.8%) -- 41.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
 
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phantom

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RU Co-Leader
#4

Kommonium Z is now BANNED via council vote effective immediately. Reasoning below:
Kommonium Z turns an already good Pokemon into a near-unstoppable sweeper. The instantaneous boost to all stats while simultaneously dealing damage allows Kommo-o to set up safely against a variety of slower offensive threats, such as Nidoqueen, Honchkrow, and Feraligatr, without fear of taking an attack and the defense boosts in tandem with the Speed make it nearly impossible to revenge kill. Combined with its already stellar mixed offensive movepool, Kommo-o checks are limited to Fairy-types, of which few are common, and opposing Kommo-o with Soundproof. Neither of these checks are reliable, however, as Kommo-o has the necessary coverage moves and power to dent any of these potential switch-ins. Due to the lack of reliable checks and countermeasures available that can put a stop to Clangorous Soulblaze Kommo-o, it is hereby banned from RU.

Why Kommonium Z and not Kommo-o?

At this time, it is difficult to assess the viability of other Kommo-o sweeper sets because they are largely eclipsed in viability by Clangorous Soulblaze. If Kommo-o itself proves to be a problem without Clangorous Soulblaze, then it will be voted upon sometime post tier shifts. Right now, there is not any strong indication that it is overpowered without the 185 BP Dragon STAB that boosts all stats.
Council Voters:
Ban: ajna, atomicllamas, arifeen, col49, feliburn, FlamingVictini, Kushalos, Mraldo, phantom

tagging The Immortal to ban Kommonium Z from the RU ladder, ty
 
#6
It would be nice to see some more discussion going on in here, USM is new and fresh so let's talk about it!

kommoo.png

Kommo-o @ Life Orb
Ability: Bulletproof / Soundproof
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Clanging Scales
- Close Combat
- Flamethrower

This was a set I theorized before USM came out. I never see Stealth Rock Kommo-o on the ladder, which is a shame as it's easily one of the best rockers in the tier. It is really difficult to wall Kommo-o outside of a few bulk mons like Milotic and Cresselia, but it's also decently fast and pretty bulky. No defoggers / spinners can safely come in on Kommo-o outside of Florges and Comfey I guess, but who uses those anyway. Pair this up w/ a stallbreaker like Decidueye and you're going to have a fun time vs fat builds. While this set is great, some other sets like Dragon Dance and Swords Dance (especially on webs) are excellent as well. Dragon Dance Kommo-o finds itself a niche over Flygon by being bulkier, stronger, and being able to break blobs like Porygon-2 and Umbreon without having to use a Z-move.

glalie-mega.png

Glalie-Mega @ Glalitite
Ability: Refrigerate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Double-Edge
- Ice Shard
- Spikes
- Explosion / Toxic / Earthquake

Mega Glalie is an amazing spiker right now as it just completely annihilates hazard removers like Gligar, Sigilyph, and Tsareena. While it isn't too difficult to wall it with Pokemon like Milotic and Registeel, every time you have to switch into a check, it sets up another layer of spikes. I've even tried out Mega Glalie on webs, and it has worked amazingly so far. Spikes help a lot in matchups vs bulkier teams to help wear down walls for your other breakers. In matchups vs offensive teams, Mega Glalie still works fine as it doesn't let most Pokemon remove Sticky Web vs it and you can just nuke stuff with Double-Edge. Really fun mon, glad to see it perform as well as it does.

necrozma.png

Necrozma @ Leftovers
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty / Naive Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Photon Geyser
- Heat Wave
- Knock Off

I've been trying out Swords Dance Necrozma quite a bit lately and... it has been disappointing, to say the least. I feel like we have way better stallbreakers / wallbreakers at the moment, and if you really want or need a Psychic-type breaker, we have Bruxish and Meloetta which still perform well in the meta. That said, I think Stealth Rock Necrozma could be pretty neat now as it has a strong STAB and coverage moves backed up by solid offensive stats. Knock Off removes items like Gligar's Eviolite and Cresselia's Leftovers which is always nice, and Heat Wave does solid damage to Steel-types like Mega Steelix, Doublade, and Registeel, especially after removing its Leftovers.
 

MrAldo

Bird Enthusiast
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Moderator
#7
Dark Pulse and Power Gem are also good options on the last slot since Dark Pulse can hit stuff like Doublade harder and share the same targets as knock off, while power gem can nail stuff like Moltres and Articuno which are gaining popularity (the latter being the most notorious user of defog here). Really cool Stealth Rock user, pretty on par with Nidoqueen for offensive teams imo.

Also Super Fang on Mega Glalie is beautiful, should be the main filler moveslot imo. Chipping down Registeel and Doublade, and forcing Milotic to recover all the time is dope.

No more comments since I still have to play this metagame enough to settle my judgement, but after kommonium Z ban it is looking pretty decent so far.
 

avocado

queen vados
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#8
woops lowkey forgot this thread existed ~^o^~ sorry



There's been an issue that's been the centre of discussion for a while now on PS and discord, and that's Durant. Quite a few people (including myself) are saying it's really hard to deal with and super difficult to switch into because it can pick its counters with what z-move it decides to use, and even then it can run both superpower and crunch and drop x-scissor. Fightinium breaks mega steelix and porygon2, while Darkium breaks Doublade, and both of them help break past Milotic. That's all of Durant's checks right there. It's sheer power + speed tier makes me forced to run a scarfer that can specifically beat it, or Salazzle, and barely anything can switch into it so once it's in on something you're immediately in danger, as opposed to other setup sweepers where they have to set up first. Durant can attack outright and it's scary cuz he's so damn powerful.

Another thing is that durant's typing + decent phys def give it a lot of setup opportunities so it's not really short of those either, and unlike DD Gatr it isn't hard-walled by any one thing in particular. Also, it's a 50/50 between fightinium and darkinium and you can't figure it out before it being too late.

Band Durant is also a threat but I personally never played against it and only used it in a few games so I can't comment much on it.

I do wanna end this post by saying this is the best set though imo:


Durant @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Hone Claws
- Iron Head
- Crunch
- Superpower

Crunch 2HKOs Doublade at +1 and Fightinium breaks more targets + the 30 power in difference is huge. The only thing you miss out on is hitting Quagsire for neutral damage which can suck but is worth it considering you hit all of milotic, doublade, and mlix with this set.
 

Windsong

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#9
Some general thoughts
  • Lots of underrated threats right now. New defoggers make Moltres + Yanmega (among other things) super scary.
  • Speaking of Defoggers, I think some of the best ones aren't getting enough usage. Rotom-C and H are fantastic: tempo in Volt Switch, the former beats a bunch of common rockers while the latter beats common spikers, and great resistances.
  • Kommo is still really good. DD Devastating Drake sets just annihilate defensive teams unless they play around it perfectly. Stealth rock sets have a ton of utility because soundproof and bulletproof alongside dragon/fighting typing give you great resistances and immunities.
  • Lots of pretty gimmicky stall showing up. These teams are bad for non-ladder play and fare poorly against basically anyone who's laddering with...well, anything that doesn't auto lose to stall. That said, obviously good teams to climb with, but not something i'd consider a significant for the upcoming tournament scene.
  • For every good sticky web team I see I run into 50 that I consider unplayable. If you're dedicating a team slot to Galvantula or the fairy bug, you're committing to pressuring opposing spinners and defoggers at all times. If your webs team can't do this, it's a bad team.
  • Tier is fantastic. Might wanna take a look at Gatr at some point, but overall things seem balanced. Great metagame for both bulky and heavy offense.
 
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#10
I've been getting back into RU with this meta after not really enjoying most of SM, and I'm finding it really enjoyable. I love that we have a lot of utility options for SR setters - Nidoqueen, Steelix, Necrozma, Kommo-O (for now) - and Defoggers, which helps make building bulky offense feel like less of a chore. Kommo-O's versatility is pretty amazing,

I thought webs would be amazing but honestly it feels super lackluster. I agree with Windsong's observations in terms of builds. While I think webs balance might have a small niche, people are exploring it in a way that makes zero sense with suicide leads, and several excellent mons such as Swellow and Flygon don't care at all. Often it feels like you could be using a spikes stack team and similar sets and be way more successful, honestly.

Yanmega is honestly so much better than people are giving it credit for, despite people praising it quite a bit in this thread - it's my go-to balance breaker at the moment and incredibly hard to deal with with current metagame trends. Registeel and spdef Milotic are very out of favor, so it 2hkos almost everything and is usually a roll to 2hko the rest.

I've also had a lot of success with Snorlax, especially trapper variants that I think have gotten overlooked. AV, Berry Trapper, and Band are cool checks to some really dangerous mons and I think are a rather underexplored aspect of this meta. Similarly, Sneasel and Escavalier feel pretty strong right now; Sneasel can trap two of the best hazard removers and beats every other one I can think of, except Blastoise lol, which I think makes it especially notable.
 
#11
Hi all! I got pretty bored and I don't have much of anything to do today so I decided to talk about some ru stuff.

The first thing I want to talk about is stall. I don't consider myself an expert, but I have tried out several stall builds extensively including the rmt'd one in my sig (use SpD Gligar over Flygon and Registeel over Bronzong though) and I've seen builds from despize and Ov3r Ac3 in action. I believe stall is in a bad place in ru and has been for quite a while simply due to the large quantity of stallbreakers / wallbreakers which either completely break your standard stall team outright or put an immense amount of pressure on their checks. I'm thinking of stuff like Band / SD Pangoro, Band / SD Bewear, SubSD Decidueye, SubNP Hoopa, CM Meloetta, SD / Mixed Mega Abomasnow, SD Virizion, Band / Hone Claws Durant, SD Necrozma, SD Feraligatr, Araquanid, NP Salazzle, Specs Yanmega, Life Orb Moltres, and more. These threats are not easily prepped for, especially if you only choose to use "standard" stuff. Building a stall team that can somewhat handle these threats while being consistent enough vs the rest of the meta is no easy task, that's for sure. With this in mind, it really is no surprise to me that stall players may want to experiment with Pokemon like Articuno or Pyukumuku or bulky Espeon. I've used SpD Gligar with enough Speed to outpace Timid Hoopa so it can outspeed and KO with Knock Off, Pursuit trappers to eliminate key stallbreakers, Articuno and Cryogonal to reliably Defog on Nidoqueen, Pyukumuku with investment to tank a Z-Sludge Wave + Sludge Wave from Salazzle, and various other gems.

I think using Ribombee, Galvantula, or w/e webs setter you like using as a suicide lead is a bad way to approach webs. Of course you want to get up your webs as soon as possible, but when you go with a suicide lead approach, there's a lot of pressure on your part to keep them up as long as possible. You have to use breakers that take advantage of webs, but they can't be breakers that are easy to remove hazards on, and you obviously need checks to flying mons like Flygon, Swellow, Sigilyph, etc., but again, these mons can't be easy to remove hazards on. It feels very one-dimensional and constricting playing this way and I don't much enjoy it. Using webs Ribombee or Araquanid w/ 1 or 2 Pokemon that benefit from webs and using the rest of the team to patch up weaknesses and support the rest of the team seems like a much better approach. The goal here is for the team to be less reliant on keeping webs up to function well but for some Pokemon to still get some benefit from having webs up. It's nice to not worry about the team falling apart if you can't keep webs up.

I also want to voice that Moltres and Yanmega seem super underrated still. They're relatively fast breakers with the instant power to blow stuff up. Our new hazard removers make these rock weak Pokemon a lot easier to use well. Stuff like Gigalith, Diancie, and Registeel, which would help keep them in check, I feel are less desirable in the current meta.
 

-Tsunami-

Tournament Banned
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#12
Whats up vros its YA BOY METABEAST back again with some genius innovation that I stole from eifo
so eifo posted a team in the research week thread that i've been spamming lately. it is currently the only team in my builder since i deleted all of them when i quit haha...
anyway i changed Aurorus to SR Kommo-o (Taunt / Clanging Scales / Flamethrower) (shoutouts slurmz) and Pangoro to a Z-Lovely Kiss Jynx (NP / Ice Beam / Psyshock), and the team has been extremely effective, albeit against occasionally middling competition
This post is not about the team, though, it is about one specific Pokemon: Meowstic.
Since our community has tried its hardest to completely wipe out any cheese strategies with the banning of Aurora Veil, naturally, I presumed it was up to me to contaminate the tier once more. I was surprised to learn that eifo had begun doing this for me, and it was only after testing my version of the team that I realized Meowstic's true potential.


TREBLE CLEFABLE (Meowstic) @ Light Clay
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 84 Def / 172 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Yawn
- Mean Look

Prankster Dual Screens is a very interesting concept. Anyone who has played BW OU back when Thundurus-I was legal knows the value of having a Prankster T-Wave Pokemon an HO team; it prevents you from losing to set-up sweepers, and thus gives you much more leeway when you're playing a game. Meowstic can function similarly to Thundurus-I, being able to set up screens on almost all of the tier. Now, how can a Pokemon whose entire utility is based on Dual Screens function in a metagame where everything and its mother has Defog? Well, this is where the innovative genius of VoD Leader Metabeast SHINES! Yawn is the key to Meowstic's success, as the threat of sleep dissuades many of the opposition's actions. In tandem with Espeon, which can bounce back Defog, this makes Dual Screens HO much more effective than one would initially anticipate. Yawn actually functions better than a move such as Sleep Powder on Meowstic, since the opposing Pokemon will only go to sleep at the end of the second turn after the move is used. This can greatly restrict the opposition's movement, as killing Meowstic at an inopportune time can lead to devastating threats such as Feraligatr and Linoone running roughshod over one's team. After experimenting with Safeguard for a bit and realizing that I never actually click this move, I realized that Mean Look could be a very interesting tech for Meowstic. If clicked at the right time, it could function extraordinarily well with Yawn to set one's team up for an easy sweep; even without Yawn, if the Pokemon currently in place has no way to damage one of your sweepers, then it can lead to an easy set up opportunity as well, especially behind Dual Screens. Keep in mind that Yawn and Mean Look will not work on Dark-types; luckily, there really aren't that many notable ones in the metagame, so that usually is not that big of an issue. Other options I considered for the last move in addition to the aforementioned Safeguard were Trick (to remove Choice Scarfs, etc.), Thunder Wave, Flash, Gravity (for Lovely Kiss), and Heal Bell; I think that Mean Look is generally the best option, though, as it can lead to huge rewards if you're able to predict well. Play smart with this amazing cat and it'll do wonders for your HO team. Don't be discouraged just because of the plethora of Defoggers running around, because Meowstic can still be a very potent force in this metagame when paired with the right teammates.

#cheese4life #trebleclefable #goatmeowstic #linooneisbroken

 
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Robert Alfons

DEHUMANIZE YOURSELF AND FACE TO BLOODSHED
is a Tiering Contributor
#14


Articuno @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 32 SpD / 228 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Haze
- Roost
- Freeze-Dry

This is the Articuno set you should run on stall, imo (and you probably shouldn't run Articuno when you're not using stall). Although it may seem appealing to invest heavily in its bulk and give it Heal Bell so that it can 1v1 a decent portion of the tier, that type of set doesn't really capitalize on Articuno's unique traits imo. Alongside Gligar you can Defog on the vast majority of hazard setters in RU, including Nidoqueen and non-Power Gem Necrozma, but what truly makes Articuno such an interesting pick is how it actually manages to beat some of the most dangerous stallbreakers in the meta. This spread allows you to outspeed positive nature base 70s, which means you can switch in on NP Hoopa and SD Decidueye and Haze before they get a hit off. This means that, as long as you keep Articuno healthy, there is pretty much no way for these Pokemon to break you:
248 SpA Hoopa Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 36+ SpD Articuno: 211-250 (55 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
248 SpA Hoopa Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 36+ SpD Articuno: 106-126 (27.6 - 32.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
248 SpA Hoopa Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 36+ SpD Articuno: 212-250 (55.3 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO -- on the Roost

Even when Hoopa forces Articuno to Roost and Focus Blasts, it has to rely on SpD drops and/or on Focus Blast hitting several times in a row if it wants to stand a chance. Also keep in mind that Hoopa can only use FB 4 times thanks to Pressure. The odds are heavily stacked against it. Hoopa fares better if it runs Fightinium, but then it still has to use its Z-move at the right moment when Articuno Roosts or it's wasted. The Articuno user can also pivot in and out if need be.

252 Atk Decidueye Sinister Arrow Raid vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Articuno: 256-303 (66.8 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Decidueye Shadow Sneak vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Articuno: 58-69 (15.1 - 18%) -- possible 6HKO

Unless Adamant starts being a thing (don't) Decidueye can't break Articuno without prior chip damage.

Of course you need to keep Articuno healthy in order to reliably beat these threats, but it's probably your best best against these threats.

252 SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 248 HP / 36+ SpD Articuno: 148-174 (38.6 - 45.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoqueen Sludge Wave vs. 248 HP / 36+ SpD Articuno: 146-173 (38.1 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery -- you outspeed this so even if Articuno's been chipped to the point where this would be a 2HKO, you simply Roost before it gets the chance to attack again
252+ SpA Abomasnow-Mega Blizzard vs. 248 HP / 36+ SpD Articuno: 145-172 (37.8 - 44.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Abomasnow-Mega Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 36+ SpD Articuno: 214-252 (55.8 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery -- idk how common Focus Blast is atm but even if they run it, it's the same situation as Hoopa where you only have 4 and you can't afford missing one or you're back to square one.

It is definitely true that there are a lot of very good breakers around these days and it's up for debate how good stall is right now, but I think Articuno and in particular this set can help alleviate some of stall's biggest problems.
 
#15
Whats up vros its YA BOY METABEAST back again with some genius innovation that I stole from eifo
so eifo posted a team in the research week thread that i've been spamming lately. it is currently the only team in my builder since i deleted all of them when i quit haha...
anyway i changed Aurorus to SR Kommo-o (Taunt / Clanging Scales / Flamethrower) (shoutouts slurmz) and Pangoro to a Z-Lovely Kiss Jynx (NP / Ice Beam / Psyshock), and the team has been extremely effective, albeit against occasionally middling competition
This post is not about the team, though, it is about one specific Pokemon: Meowstic.
Since our community has tried its hardest to completely wipe out any cheese strategies with the banning of Aurora Veil, naturally, I presumed it was up to me to contaminate the tier once more. I was surprised to learn that eifo had begun doing this for me, and it was only after testing my version of the team that I realized Meowstic's true potential.


TREBLE CLEFABLE (Meowstic) @ Light Clay
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 84 Def / 172 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Yawn
- Mean Look

Prankster Dual Screens is a very interesting concept. Anyone who has played BW OU back when Thundurus-I was legal knows the value of having a Prankster T-Wave Pokemon an HO team; it prevents you from losing to set-up sweepers, and thus gives you much more leeway when you're playing a game. Meowstic can function similarly to Thundurus-I, being able to set up screens on almost all of the tier. Now, how can a Pokemon whose entire utility is based on Dual Screens function in a metagame where everything and its mother has Defog? Well, this is where the innovative genius of VoD Leader Metabeast SHINES! Yawn is the key to Meowstic's success, as the threat of sleep dissuades many of the opposition's actions. In tandem with Espeon, which can bounce back Defog, this makes Dual Screens HO much more effective than one would initially anticipate. Yawn actually functions better than a move such as Sleep Powder on Meowstic, since the opposing Pokemon will only go to sleep at the end of the second turn after the move is used. This can greatly restrict the opposition's movement, as killing Meowstic at an inopportune time can lead to devastating threats such as Feraligatr and Linoone running roughshod over one's team. After experimenting with Safeguard for a bit and realizing that I never actually click this move, I realized that Mean Look could be a very interesting tech for Meowstic. If clicked at the right time, it could function extraordinarily well with Yawn to set one's team up for an easy sweep; even without Yawn, if the Pokemon currently in place has no way to damage one of your sweepers, then it can lead to an easy set up opportunity as well, especially behind Dual Screens. Keep in mind that Yawn and Mean Look will not work on Dark-types; luckily, there really aren't that many notable ones in the metagame, so that usually is not that big of an issue. Other options I considered for the last move in addition to the aforementioned Safeguard were Trick (to remove Choice Scarfs, etc.), Thunder Wave, Flash, Gravity (for Lovely Kiss), and Heal Bell; I think that Mean Look is generally the best option, though, as it can lead to huge rewards if you're able to predict well. Play smart with this amazing cat and it'll do wonders for your HO team. Don't be discouraged just because of the plethora of Defoggers running around, because Meowstic can still be a very potent force in this metagame when paired with the right teammates.

#cheese4life #trebleclefable #goatmeowstic #linooneisbroken

I seem to always click safeguard when I’m ready to sweep with whoever, since the team has no hazard control and t spikes can be set (Ik my old version had espeon which your using since it also blocks Defog with screens). So this came as a surprise to me. I’m gonna try out your set, but I usually run with psychic for offensive pressure. With psychic it can hit mons like salazzle, queen, chesnaught, and just to damage mons in general, as it still does some damage. Ngl mean look and yawn look p fire tho
 
#16


Articuno @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 32 SpD / 228 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Haze
- Roost
- Freeze-Dry

This is the Articuno set you should run on stall, imo (and you probably shouldn't run Articuno when you're not using stall). Although it may seem appealing to invest heavily in its bulk and give it Heal Bell so that it can 1v1 a decent portion of the tier, that type of set doesn't really capitalize on Articuno's unique traits imo. Alongside Gligar you can Defog on the vast majority of hazard setters in RU, including Nidoqueen and non-Power Gem Necrozma, but what truly makes Articuno such an interesting pick is how it actually manages to beat some of the most dangerous stallbreakers in the meta. This spread allows you to outspeed positive nature base 70s, which means you can switch in on NP Hoopa and SD Decidueye and Haze before they get a hit off. This means that, as long as you keep Articuno healthy, there is pretty much no way for these Pokemon to break you:
248 SpA Hoopa Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 36+ SpD Articuno: 211-250 (55 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
248 SpA Hoopa Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 36+ SpD Articuno: 106-126 (27.6 - 32.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
248 SpA Hoopa Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 36+ SpD Articuno: 212-250 (55.3 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO -- on the Roost

Even when Hoopa forces Articuno to Roost and Focus Blasts, it has to rely on SpD drops and/or on Focus Blast hitting several times in a row if it wants to stand a chance. Also keep in mind that Hoopa can only use FB 4 times thanks to Pressure. The odds are heavily stacked against it. Hoopa fares better if it runs Fightinium, but then it still has to use its Z-move at the right moment when Articuno Roosts or it's wasted. The Articuno user can also pivot in and out if need be.

252 Atk Decidueye Sinister Arrow Raid vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Articuno: 256-303 (66.8 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Decidueye Shadow Sneak vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Articuno: 58-69 (15.1 - 18%) -- possible 6HKO

Unless Adamant starts being a thing (don't) Decidueye can't break Articuno without prior chip damage.

Of course you need to keep Articuno healthy in order to reliably beat these threats, but it's probably your best best against these threats.

252 SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 248 HP / 36+ SpD Articuno: 148-174 (38.6 - 45.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoqueen Sludge Wave vs. 248 HP / 36+ SpD Articuno: 146-173 (38.1 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery -- you outspeed this so even if Articuno's been chipped to the point where this would be a 2HKO, you simply Roost before it gets the chance to attack again
252+ SpA Abomasnow-Mega Blizzard vs. 248 HP / 36+ SpD Articuno: 145-172 (37.8 - 44.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Abomasnow-Mega Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 36+ SpD Articuno: 214-252 (55.8 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery -- idk how common Focus Blast is atm but even if they run it, it's the same situation as Hoopa where you only have 4 and you can't afford missing one or you're back to square one.

It is definitely true that there are a lot of very good breakers around these days and it's up for debate how good stall is right now, but I think Articuno and in particular this set can help alleviate some of stall's biggest problems.
This set might work on stall, but using this means you also take away Articuno's biggest niche; Defogging on Nidoqueen, Registeel, Bronzong and more Decidueye is beaten anyways as you can outspeed and heavily damage it letting another mon kill it the next turn (imo you should always have atleast 2 mons with 263 or more speed on stall). If you run Haze you lose to trapper Araquanid anyways which another big reason to use Articuno on stall, Milotic would also beat you which is very annoying. If I were to run Haze I wouldn't use Defog 'cause Articuno can't beat any of the common Defoggers, I would instead run Roar/Whirlwind so you can p/hze out bulky set-up sweepers such as Cm Cresselia, Cm Florges, CurseLax and Cm Comfey while also being able to rack up hazard damage on other mons. This is the set I usually run on stall:
Spear Mint (Articuno) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 116 Def / 144 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Roost
- Heal Bell
- Freeze-Dry

This allows you to beat Decidueye (they should run Grassium to beat Umbreon imo) and also Jolly Honchkrow while being able to Defog on all the aforementioned rockers. More in-depth reasoning, here.

Hi all! I got pretty bored and I don't have much of anything to do today so I decided to talk about some ru stuff.

The first thing I want to talk about is stall. I don't consider myself an expert, but I have tried out several stall builds extensively including the rmt'd one in my sig (use SpD Gligar over Flygon and Registeel over Bronzong though) and I've seen builds from despize and Ov3r Ac3 in action. I believe stall is in a bad place in ru and has been for quite a while simply due to the large quantity of stallbreakers / wallbreakers which either completely break your standard stall team outright or put an immense amount of pressure on their checks. I'm thinking of stuff like Band / SD Pangoro, Band / SD Bewear, SubSD Decidueye, SubNP Hoopa, CM Meloetta, SD / Mixed Mega Abomasnow, SD Virizion, Band / Hone Claws Durant, SD Necrozma, SD Feraligatr, Araquanid, NP Salazzle, Specs Yanmega, Life Orb Moltres, and more. These threats are not easily prepped for, especially if you only choose to use "standard" stuff. Building a stall team that can somewhat handle these threats while being consistent enough vs the rest of the meta is no easy task, that's for sure. With this in mind, it really is no surprise to me that stall players may want to experiment with Pokemon like Articuno or Pyukumuku or bulky Espeon. I've used SpD Gligar with enough Speed to outpace Timid Hoopa so it can outspeed and KO with Knock Off, Pursuit trappers to eliminate key stallbreakers, Articuno and Cryogonal to reliably Defog on Nidoqueen, Pyukumuku with investment to tank a Z-Sludge Wave + Sludge Wave from Salazzle, and various other gems.

I think using Ribombee, Galvantula, or w/e webs setter you like using as a suicide lead is a bad way to approach webs. Of course you want to get up your webs as soon as possible, but when you go with a suicide lead approach, there's a lot of pressure on your part to keep them up as long as possible. You have to use breakers that take advantage of webs, but they can't be breakers that are easy to remove hazards on, and you obviously need checks to flying mons like Flygon, Swellow, Sigilyph, etc., but again, these mons can't be easy to remove hazards on. It feels very one-dimensional and constricting playing this way and I don't much enjoy it. Using webs Ribombee or Araquanid w/ 1 or 2 Pokemon that benefit from webs and using the rest of the team to patch up weaknesses and support the rest of the team seems like a much better approach. The goal here is for the team to be less reliant on keeping webs up to function well but for some Pokemon to still get some benefit from having webs up. It's nice to not worry about the team falling apart if you can't keep webs up.

I also want to voice that Moltres and Yanmega seem super underrated still. They're relatively fast breakers with the instant power to blow stuff up. Our new hazard removers make these rock weak Pokemon a lot easier to use well. Stuff like Gigalith, Diancie, and Registeel, which would help keep them in check, I feel are less desirable in the current meta.
Moltres is a very good albiet underrated pokemon on stall. It beats, SD Bewear, SD Pangoro, SubSD Decidueye, M-Abomasnow, Durant and many other threats if rocks are not up, which isn't that hard to do if you have a good hazard control core (I run Moltres + Articuno + Gligar/Flygon). Sadly if rocks get put up it can't switch in to any of these threats which makes it quite unreliable for stall, pokemon such as Rhyperior, Gigalith, Diancie and Taunt SR Kommo-o can put rocks up vs. it and then pressure other hazard removers by doubling or in Kommo-o's case attacking them with powerful STABs. In general I agree with HypnoEmpire that stall teams in RU are extremely hard to build as they will most likely be pressured by a couple of big threats, which isn't very good in tournament play on ladder however stall teams are still very good as people hae to prep for all playstyles which could leave them quite open to losing to stall teams, which was shown by J0RIS dominence on RU ladder.

Pyukumuku will be the last pokemon I talk about in this post and I think it is very underrated on stall teams. Pyukumuku beats special set-up sweepers much better than Quagsire does as it has 55/130 instead of 95/65 which gives it a lot more bulk on the special side. Pyukumuku can also trap pesky mons for stall with the new addition of Block combine this with Sak and Toxic it can kill whatever mon it wants to (except Gligar). Pyukumuku can also run Taunt over Block for CurseLax or even Spite if you want to beat set-up sweepers with a substitute such as Hoopa, this makes Pyukumuku a very versatile pokemon on stall which can be used to ct people in tournament games if you see they like a specific mon.
 

Robert Alfons

DEHUMANIZE YOURSELF AND FACE TO BLOODSHED
is a Tiering Contributor
#17
This set might work on stall, but using this means you also take away Articuno's biggest niche; Defogging on Nidoqueen, Registeel, Bronzong and more Decidueye is beaten anyways as you can outspeed and heavily damage it letting another mon kill it the next turn (imo you should always have atleast 2 mons with 263 or more speed on stall). If you run Haze you lose to trapper Araquanid anyways which another big reason to use Articuno on stall, Milotic would also beat you which is very annoying.
I mentioned this set should be used alongside Gligar, which beats the bulky Steel-type rockers you can't beat with my Articuno set. You could definitely opt to run Heal Bell over Defog, however the mere fact that you can beat Hoopa is too important to pass up, the only way I could see Haze being non-essential is if you were to run a fast Knock Off user alongside a Moltres in order to beat Hoopa + Decidueye but idk if such a team can really exist without having other glaring flaws. Also, outspeeding and heavily damaging Decidueye isn't worth it if you have to let Articuno die in the process (only happens when it's Decidium which is less common than Grassium but not unviable at all).
 

The Amuse

formerly Skyzuma
#18
Hi I'm a mad balance kid that is tired of losing to Durant so I want it gone. I agree with Avocado in the post above in this thread. Durant deserves a ban because it is not healthy in the metagame in my opinion. It kinda ruins balance and make teambuilding much harder. As for the rest I dont have much to say because Avocado already covered Durant. But Avocado wanted me to post to have more people saying it is broken and have a bigger impact on the RU tierleaders. So keep calm and ban Durant. (If you have complains about this post tell it to avocado don't hate on me)
 

MrAldo

Bird Enthusiast
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Moderator
#19
And thats fine and all, any discussion regarding something that you consider broken is good if it is respectful and backed up with good arguments. So I invite anyone that feels identified with avocado post to share their experiences with Durant and how they feel (if it affects the metagame too negatively or not).

Reminder that we are expecting, hopefully soon (FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, PLEASE BE SOON), a big tier shift so no action will be taken until then. So keep discussing the metagame and what not and we will see what happens, until then I hope you are enjoying the experience.

Peace.
 
#20
I'm hella tired so I'm not gonna make a big post or anything, but since my continuous complaining about Durant on Discord and PS obviously isn't enough, I'll cry a bit more here on forums about how stupid I believe it is. Its main set has two counters, Quag and Rest Talk M Amphy, one of which only fits on stall, the other one being awkward to fit on any form of team. Hell, you can even go as far as to argue the latter isn't even viable. This means we're left with one counter in the entire tier. Given that the mon only fits on stall, which to make matters worse is in a bad spot now as well, just makes Durant even harder to handle.

On more offensive teams defensively checking it is completely out of the question. And by "more offensive" I don't just mean Offense and HO, I mean Balance. Because of Durants great speedtier and sheer power, paired with set up in Hone Claws and the possibility to run two different Z-moves, it just runs through teams. Usually you just have to sack a mon when it comes, so that you can get in your scarfer safely to revenge it (or one of the few mons that actually outspeeds it). And even then, Durant can retreat and come back in later to wreak havoc once again.

When I play it, it feels like i have to make a gamble on what it will do every single turn, as just one wrong step can mean death. Will it set up to kill my incoming Milo with the Z-move? If so, should i just attack and get whatever chip I can? Or will it just attack and kill my mon, which I need alive in order to win.

And that's not even taking into account that Durant has several other sets it can run as well. What if it isn't even HC Z-move, but LO, CB or Scarf? How do i play around this? The obvious answer to this is "scouting". The only problem with this, is that if your opponent capitalizes on this and goes for something you didn't expect, you're fucked anyway. Bop, one mon dead. You found out what set it was, but at what cost? You lost a mon, and you're likely to lose the momentum next turn again, as the one mon on your team can't risk clicking any other move than the one that kills Durant. Or maybe you didn't find out the set. What if the mon you went out into died to for instance Superpower or Iron Head regardless of whether the Durant is Scarf, Z or CB. And if it's not CB or LO, how do you even pick between Scarf and Z? The only reasonable thing to do would be to expect the best set, being HC Z-move.

Now, you can argue that by looking at team preview, it should be possible to tell what item it is. Or at least whether it's scarf or so. But contrary to (somewhat) popular belief, it's not that easy to guess. Is it SD Normalium Bear + Scarf Ant? Is it Sub SD Bear+ HC Z-move Ant? Is it ScarfGon + HC Durant? Is it DD Gon + Scarf Durant? Is the scarfer Shay or Ant? Hell, you can even play off what's more likely the scarfer, and put Specs Garde+Scarf Ant. And the list goes on...

TL;DR: Durant has one counter. It's near impossible to check defensively. You're usually forced to sack and revenge it with a Scarfer. Durant having many sets only adds to its unhealthiness by adding a "guessing game". A suspect would be fitting in my opinion. And yes, this is a relatively short post coming from me....
 
#21
While I don't personally think Durant is broken, I think a lot is being put into discussing it's anti-Balance attributes rather than it's anti offense attributes. Scarf can absolutely murder a lot of offense teams, because a lot of things that resist Bug, Steel, and/or Fighting all happen to also be weak to Rocks - Moltres, Rotom-Heat, Araquanid, etc. That being said, it usually struggles to take out a lot of things you NEED revenge killers for, like Kommo-O, and Feraligatr, so scarf Durant can be hard to slot into teams that don't have these threats well-covered unless you want to be double scarf.

So, I've recently started using this rock polish set instead.
Durant @ Steelium Z
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Polish
- Hone Claws
- Iron Head
- Superpower

Anja used this set before me, but I wasn't aware - I was inspired by seeing Rock Polish Cobalion in UU. I've found that this set can absolutely murder most offense teams I face, so long as Durant hits. Steelium really helps with this - it can't miss and it's an absolute nuke, killing offensive Moltres after rocks and having a 62.5% chance to kill a full health Salazzle. I haven't had much of an issue setting up with this, because offense (and balance, often) has to rely on using attacks Durant resists to revenge kill mons like Feraligatr, Kommo-O, and Flygon.

I've opted to run hone claws over a coverage move so that this set can be more consistent versus balance - Steel + Fighting actually hits a large portion of the metagame neutrally on their own, leaving this set primarily vulnerable to mons like phys def Milotic. It's also obviously unable to break Doublade (unless you replace HC with Crunch), which is a huge negative as an offense killer, but I think the sheer consistency in cleaning is worth it on certain teams.

Outside of this set, I think Durant just has a lot of underexplored options as a whole - if you know the opponents team/sets in advance, options like Buginium seem entirely viable, 2hkoing the unaware walls, while random hone claws rock slides/thunder fangs destroy Moltres, etc. Cool mon.

No replays because I'm dumb.

edit: Anja, not Arifeen, used this in snake.
 
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King Wynaut

oofinators vrosabi
is a Tiering Contributor
#22
Screens are broken vros....

In all seriousness, I've been messing around with a lot of different non-suicide lead HO builds (although they all feature taunt Glalie + Linoone) and I'm starting to really come around to screens.


Espeon @ Light Clay
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Morning Sun
- Psychic/ Dazzling Gleam/ Hidden Power Fire

Now, I know there has been some discussion centered around a different feline screens setter, but in my opinion Espeon is still the best setter (at least on HO builds; Cress might be interesting on fatter ones). Obviously it has to worry about stuff like Scarf Durant lead, but its not hard to safely position if you play well at all, and usually lets your first round of sweepers not have to be annoyed by rocks and prevents your opponent from getting rid of the screens with a well timed defog. Mega Glalie with Taunt then can come in after to stop 99% of defog in the tier, and set Spikes before going into a sweeper to set up on the remaining turns (running boom > ice shard on Glalie is something I've been toying with to make this transition easier). Obviously these teams have a Linoone, which usually needs like two spikes and a setup to sweep, but Durant and Feraligatr also work exceptionally with screens up. On the Special side, subMind Meloetta can be really terrifying behind screens, thanks to its natural bulk, and Registeel being much less common these days. Obviously, there are a plethora of really scary options to choose from in the tier on top of this (Kommo-o, Cloyster, Bewear, Decidueye, Doublade) that all love having screens to support them, and the screens archetype has a better matchup vs. stall than either webs or pure spike stack imo, since Espeon can give the team a little durability, and there's more flexibility for bulkier stall breakers to be incorporated into the team. In general, HO builds seem like the scariest thing in the tier right now, aside from pyuku squads maybe, and I think there's a lot of potential to adapt and explore in these builds that people haven't yet come to. Durant is still BROKEN.
 
#23
I think I found an interesting for Aerodactyl that is kind of anti-meta, and I want other people's opinions on it:
Aerodactyl @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Fly
- Stone Edge
- Hone Claws / Ice Fang

I've always seen Z-Fly work for so many other pokemon in SM, and I got to wondering how it would work for Aerodactyl in USUM considering how there are a lot of strong fighting, grass, and bug types in the tier. Z-Fly nukes most of the upper ranks and quite a few of the B ranks. Here's the thing though, it also does a lot of damage to other threats as well:
252 Atk Aerodactyl Supersonic Skystrike (175 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Feraligatr: 246-289 (79 - 92.9%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Aerodactyl Supersonic Skystrike (175 BP) vs. 92 HP / 8 Def Bewear: 588-692 (145.5 - 171.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Aerodactyl Supersonic Skystrike (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 136 Def Milotic: 382-450 (96.9 - 114.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Aerodactyl Supersonic Skystrike (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Umbreon: 339-399 (86 - 101.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock


I have experimented with this set on ladder quite a bit, and a lot of people don't expect it. Which is fantastic, because it just shits on so many unsuspecting threats like Kommo-O, Araquinid, and other threats. Aero still has trouble dealing with steel types like: Mega Steelix, Registeel, and Bronzong.
Edit: Oof, I do apologize that I had no idea someone had a similar set to this with taunt over hone claws, and sky attack over fly. Also, didn't know there was an underrated sets thread. My bad.
 
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#25
One of the biggest concerns many expressed in this meta prior to these tier shifts was the power and impact of Durant and its versatile offensive options, and I think it'll be interesting to see how Durant adapts now that a reliable counter (Mandi) and a reliable check (M-Stoise) to Black Hole Eclipse Durant have dropped. A set I can see rising in viability/usage is:


Durant @ Rockium Z
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Hone Claws
- Iron Head
- Superpower
- Stone Edge

Bar Stealth Rock, Mandibuzz is one of few true counters to Black Hole Eclipse Durant. Running Stone Edge instead of Crunch - though sacrifices a significant amount of accuracy EVEN WITH an accuracy boost from Hone Claws - OHKOs Mandibuzz, M-Blastoise, and Milotic (guaranteed instead of a 43.8% chance) while doing more damage (≈ 6-7%) to Gligar. This comes at the price of now being walled by Doublade in forgoing Z-Crunch, but would overall I think optimize its options. Also, Doublade has been trash imo so I guess it's a plus that it's good for something now.
  • +1 252 Atk Hustle Durant Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 542-638 (128.1 - 150.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  • +1 252 Atk Hustle Durant Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Blastoise-Mega: 331-390 (91.4 - 107.7%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
  • +1 252 Atk Hustle Durant Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blastoise-Mega: 331-390 (110.7 - 130.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO (standard UU M-Stoise set has max speed; I don't know UU well so I don't what EV spread would translate here)
  • +1 252 Atk Hustle Durant Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 136 Def Milotic: 402-474 (102 - 120.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  • +1 252 Atk Hustle Durant Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 181-213 (54.1 - 63.7%)
  • +1 252 Atk Hustle Durant Black Hole Eclipse (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 161-190 (48.2 - 56.8%)

When I first drafted this post, my mind first went to Electrium-Z Thunder Fang which I guess has its niche benefit in OHKO'ing M-Blastoise and Milotic without a Hone Claws boost if you want that for whatever reason -- but after mulling it over I figured Rockium-Z had more upside.
  • 252 Atk Hustle Durant Gigavolt Havoc (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Blastoise-Mega: 294-348 (81.2 - 96.1%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
  • 252 Atk Hustle Durant Gigavolt Havoc (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 136 Def Milotic: 360-424 (91.3 - 107.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

I could be missing something and be off the mark, but I'm curious as to what you all think the implications of these drops are for Durant. Regardless of what meta trend Durant users respond with, there will now be options to stop it more consistently than there were just yesterday.
 
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