Fake out and recover were not why it was banned, at all. Like, recover was never used at all and fake out was, imo, not the best use of a move slot especially when it could use ice punch instead. Gallade also was a different threat in how it functioned, as it was more a set up sweeper whilst cham has immediate power. Maybe learn the mons you discuss a little better.First post woohoo
Is anyone actually surprised by this ban? Like, at all? Medicham is literally just Gallade 2.0, but instead of Knock and SD, you instead get Recover and Fake Out. Also, it's even stronger than Gallade, and has a better Fighting STAB. There was literally no way in hell this thing was sticking around for long, and I am glad it has been given the boot. Now, let's just wait and see how Mesprit and Archeops do.
P.S. Can we see the council votes for Medicham just to see what they thought?
Thanks for bringing that up.PU hype woot woot, glad we got Mesprit back I feel like it'll be constantly rising/falling as we go on with the tier. Gonna share something I've been using over the past few days that seems to be forgotten about on the ladder.
Tangela @ Eviolite
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 Spe
- Leaf Storm
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb / Hidden Power
- Hidden Power / Filler
Tangela is something that I haven't seen much of on the ladder, but still manages to act as a reliable pivot for Balance and Bulky Offensive teams thanks to eviolite boosted defenses+Regenerator backed by reasonable offensive stats. It acts as a nice blanket check to a lot of physical attackers like AV Hitmonchan, Absol, and Gurdurr, even without any Defensive investment. And while most people run Skunk/Weezing as their grass counters, neither one takes Leaf Storm particularly well (and you can just pivot out to get regenerator healing once you're at -2), which can wear them down for a teammate to come in and wreak havoc. Even without a deep movepool, you've still got utility in Knock Off, healing in Sythesis or Sleep Powder/Stun Spore for status spreading.
Tangela appreciates teammates who can provide it with Clerical support and take on threatening special attackers. I've been pairing it with Heal Bell Lanturn since they've got amazing type synergy, and also bulky SD Charizard since it stops most rock and ground-types in their tracks. Other things I've seen people pair it with is Mareanie to give Toxic Spikes support (though both of them are skuntank bait for the most part), and also form a neat Regenerator core.
Now Tangela's got its fair share of issues, notably really low special defense (its passable with Eviolite but don't expect it to take Ice Beam's any time soon), and the limited movepool means something will almost always come in for free against it. You drop Sludge Bomb the Lilligant sets up for free. Hidden power choices means that something will always take advantage of you (Ice means fire/steel types, Rock means Ferroseed sets up spikes for free, etc etc). And while regenerator offsets chip it can take, its prone to getting worn down from hazards and also losing its Eviolite.
All in all Tangela slipped a bit from where it sat last gen, but it still has the means to consistently contribute in almsot any matchup. Well minus sun teams/fire spam. Then its death fodder.
252+ SpA Tangela Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 132 SpD Skuntank: 120-141 (34.5 - 40.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Tangela Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 132 SpD Skuntank: 148-176 (42.6 - 50.7%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Tangela Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Weezing: 130-153 (38.9 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
Significant chip without even predicting properly
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Absol Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Tangela: 243-289 (72.7 - 86.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Absol Black Hole Eclipse (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Tangela: 255-301 (76.3 - 90.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
You don't want to have it as your only measure against absol but in an emergency you can take the +2 Knock Off. It has to be adamant to deal really significant damage
252+ SpA Tangela Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Gurdurr: 129-153 (34.4 - 40.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Tangela Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Gurdurr: 223-264 (59.6 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Gurdurr Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Tangela: 69-82 (20.6 - 24.5%) -- 86.5% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Gurdurr Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tangela: 103-123 (30.8 - 36.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
You can stop a potential Bulk Up sweep with relative impunity (watch out for preemptively losing Eviolite), and even if it has a few Bulk Ups you can whittle it down with Giga Drain into Leaf Storm (its dead with any chip).
Edit: Also question, now that NU banned Aurora Veil is it banned down here as well? Or is it one of those "cross that bridge when we get there" type of deals?
100% agree with this. By far the best most consistent set. Spammable acro hits the majority of the meta like a truck and archeops gets coverage for everything else.View attachment 87801
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Knock Off / Defog / Stone edge / taunt
So this is my archeops of set of choice in this meta and i suggest you run this, if you haven't used archeops before as Base 110 acro coming off a base 140 attack, despite no boosting item is nothing to laugh at! By running roost, you're avoiding sucker punches from skuntank. By running taunt, you hard wall weezing and beat it 1v1 as flamethrower or sludge bomb are both resisted! Earthquake to obviously hit rocks / steel types who avoid the flying stab and generally it's one of the most promising breakers / revenge killers in the tier at the moment By running defog, you're role compacting a lot on the pokemon as often you can defog by forcing a switch and is very clutch late game. I would also stay away from the choice banded sets as the flying / ground coverage is what makes archeops so deadly (at least that's the case in my opinion)...
So I wanted to get more active in this Forum and I thought I could do a post now. A post about the biggest thread in the metagame atm:
Tspikes are imo too much for the meta as it is at the Moment. The lack of reliable hazard removal and the existence of two great tspikers in weezing and qwilfish make tspikes extremely splashable and a big threat that you always have to think about when you build a Team. Tspikes are one of the most reliable ways to wear the opponents checks to your pokemon down, while having nearly no drawback if you use them, because both, weezing and qwilfish can still be important checks to common physical attacker like primeape. I dont think that tspikes or hazard spam in General would be a big Problem if we would have removers that wouldnt be so weak to hazards or weak and easy to wear down in General. This means, that you always have to Play a grounded poison type and grounded poison types are again, easily worn down. This Limits teambuilding heavily and even well prepared Teams have Problems when dealing with tspikes. And thats in my opinion just too much for pu. Walls and checks are just too easily worn down and with tspikes up, combined with some good spinblockers like oricorio, the Opponent has a hard time dealing with tspikes and when the opponents main check to one of your pokemon is poisoned, he will have a hard time against your main sweeper. This is just too easy and Pokemon like type null, Vigoroth or any other Setup Mons can be broken in many situations, because their main checks are destroyed by bad poison.
PU has still ways to beat tspikes and doubting that is not what I want to do. You have to get them on the field first and you have to provide enough Support for them to stay, mainly because tjhe main Setters in qwilfish and weezing dont have a good Access to reliable recovery except for z-haze and pain split. But I still think that tspikes are extremely unhealthy for this meta. It limits teambuilding extremely and hazard spam with tspikes is one of the most centralizing playstyles of this metagame. And thats why I think that a ban of the move tspikes would be healthy for the Moment, until we will get some more removers and some removers who have a easy way to deal with tspikes like claydol.
btw sry for my english I wrote this pretty quickly.
Keeping Hazard on opponent's field is easier than you think. Hitmonchan, Komala, Sandslash, Armaldo and Avalugg all lose to common spinblockers in Sableye (bar Foresigh Hitmonchan, Lum Berry SD Sandslash and Play Rough Komala), Silvally Ghost and Misdreavus (bar Armaldo). Skuntank and Shiftry lose to Primeape. Also Lurantis loses to Weezing and Qwilfish taunts Vullaby, Prinplup, Lumineon and Vibrava. Swanna can defog on both but fears Scarf Stone Edge from Primeape and Silvally Ghost Thunderbolt. Yes, none of these Pokémon have access to recovery bar Z-Haze and Pain Split but Qwilfish and Weezing pair well with our Wishers (Komala, Audino and Togedemaru).Toxic Spikes are nowhere near broken. You say that one of the reasons for this is that there aren't very many hazard removers in PU, but this is not the case. Hitmonchan, Komala, Sandslash, Armaldo, etc are all very viable spinners that are very common on teams, and Skuntank and Shiftry are very reliable defoggers. Not only that, but Skunktank and Qwilfish are very common pokemon that literally get rid of toxic spikes just by switching in.
Toxic Spikes aren't even the best entry hazard, in fact, I think it's the worst (some people would probably argue that webs are but I personally don't think so). Not saying it should be banned either, but Stealth Rock is miles better than Toxic Spikes. There are a lot more stealth rock users to choose from when compared to Toxic Spikes, you only need to set it up once as opposed to toxic spikes which you need to set up twice, and Stealth Rock has a better effect, dealing entry hazard damage to any Pokemon that switches in, regardless of type.