np: SM UU Stage 10.2 - Bug A Boo (Scizor remains UU)

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Pearl

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Throughout SM UU's lifespan, Scizor has consistently been the most influential Pokemon, essentially shaping the whole metagame around its existence. While this Pokemon's presence in the tier has seldom been questioned by the majority of the playerbase, regardless of how centralizing and unhealthy many other people have considered it to be, recent concerns have led to the decision of giving Scizor a "public trial", with the purpose of allowing the whole community to decide whether or not banning Scizor would be in the tier's best interest. For more information on this decision, I urge you all to check out Hogg's post in the last suspect thread, as it also goes over the most likely timelines for both possible outcomes of the current suspect test, while answering potential concerns regarding the unbalance that such a drastic change could possibly cause.

Overall, this Pokemon needs no introduction to anybody who has played the tier in the past two years or so. Carrying the strongest priority move in the whole tier, courtesy of its ability and its base 130 Attack, Scizor shines the brightest when it comes to revenge killing and cleaning up, with its most two common sets being Choice Band and Swords Dance, the latter which has multiple different alternatives with varying amounts of bulk and all kinds of different moves and items, sometimes even requiring completely different counterplay from what one would expect (for example, Swords Dance + Quick Attack can pick Rotom-H and Moltres apart a lot more easily than traditional sets, but proceeds to lose to either Mega Slowbro or Steel-types in the process). However, there is also some value in some of its less used sets, with Choice Scarf being the most notable example, even receiving a decent amount of usage in the last iteration of SPL. Despite being a staple on more offensively-oriented teams, Scizor finds itself on a lot of other different team archetypes, possessing unparalleled utility when it comes to handling frailer threats that do not have much of a chance taking repeated Bullet Punches.

All in all, Scizor is a threat that often forces people to sacrifice multiple slots on their teams in order to have all of its sets properly covered. Still, in spite of this fact, it is also a Pokemon that single handily prevents a ton of threatening sweepers from getting out of hand, which is one of the primary reasons why it has managed to find itself a comfortable place in the metagame up until recently. Regardless of the community's decision, the tier's leadership personally feels that bringing this Pokemon up to the public is the proper course of action in order to guarantee that we can give Sun and Moon proper closure with the arrival of the next generation, while the timing allows us to properly deal with the aftermath of whatever decision is made at the end of this test.

This suspect test will operate similarly to the Bisharp and Mega Sableye suspect tests. There will be no suspect ladder. Instead, the standard UU ladder will remain open. Those who wish to participate in this suspect test will instead use a fresh, suspect-specific alt. The requirements for the suspect will be as follows:

  • All games must be played on the Pokemon Showdown! UU ladder on a fresh alt with the following format: "UUSS (Nick)." For example, I might register the alt UUSS Pearl to ladder with. You must meet the listed format in order to qualify.
  • To qualify for voting, your alt must play a minimum of 45 games, and
  • You must have a minimum GXE of 81.
That's it! You have until Sunday, June 2 at 11:59 PM GMT -4 to meet voting requirements. Feel free to post if you have any questions about the current suspect format. Happy laddering!

Adaam
aim
Amane Misa
Eyan
Hogg
HT
Kink
Pak
Pearl
robjr
Sage
Shiba
TDK
 
This is the suspect nobody asked for, but always kinda wanted.


Well, before I do ladder I want to very specifically say that I consider Scizor pretty damn centralizing (i.e magneton even existing in the tier in the first place, and its influence to moltres being discovered) and that this suspect has been long in the making. This decision will also be quite influential, not only because of its obvious impact on uu (i.e more diancie, more fairies, less heatom and molt) but as philosophy on tiering goes in general. How will this decision affect OU, Ubers, RU, etc? It might not at all, or we could see another shift in ideas, it all depends on the future of this test and how the results play out. Happy laddering, and good luck!
 
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Freeroamer

The greatest story of them all.
is a Tiering Contributor
Throughout SM UU's lifespan, Scizor has consistently been the most influential Pokemon, essentially shaping the whole metagame around its existence. While this Pokemon's presence in the tier has seldom been questioned by the majority of the playerbase, regardless of how centralizing and unhealthy many other people have considered it to be, recent concerns have led to the decision of giving Scizor a "public trial", with the purpose of allowing the whole community to decide whether or not banning Scizor would be in the tier's best interest. For more information on this decision, I urge you all to check out Hogg's post in the last suspect thread, as it also goes over the most likely timelines for both possible outcomes of the current suspect test, while answering potential concerns regarding the unbalance that such a drastic change could possibly cause.

Overall, this Pokemon needs no introduction to anybody who has played the tier in the past two years or so. Carrying the strongest priority move in the whole tier, courtesy of its ability and its base 130 Attack, Scizor shines the brightest when it comes to revenge killing and cleaning up, with its most two common sets being Choice Band and Swords Dance, the latter which has multiple different alternatives with varying amounts of bulk and all kinds of different moves and items, sometimes even requiring completely different counterplay from what one would expect (for example, Swords Dance + Quick Attack can pick Rotom-H and Moltres apart a lot more easily than traditional sets, but proceeds to lose to either Mega Slowbro or Steel-types in the process). However, there is also come value in some of its less used sets, with Choice Scarf being the most notable example, even receiving a decent amount of usage in the last iteration of SPL. Despite being a staple on more offensively-oriented teams, Scizor finds itself on a lot of other different team archetypes, possessing unparalleled utility when it comes to handling frailer threats that do not have much of a chance taking repeated Bullet Punches.

All in all, Scizor is a threat that often forces people to sacrifice multiple slots on their teams in order to have all of its sets properly covered. Still, in spite of this fact, it is also a Pokemon that single handily prevents a ton of threatening sweepers from getting out of hand, which is one of the primary reasons why it has managed to find itself a comfortable place in the metagame up until recently. Regardless of the community's decision, the tier's leadership personally feels that bringing this Pokemon up to the public is the proper course of action in order to guarantee that we can give Sun and Moon proper closure with the arrival of the next generation, while the timing allows us to properly deal with the aftermath of whatever decision is made at the end of this test.
Isn’t the OP for a suspect supposed to provide a balanced viewpoint? There’s literally one line about Scizor having counters dependent on its coverage, otherwise the rest is very heavily telling me how fantastic it is! If I was new to UU I would be questioning why this wasn’t straight up banned instead of being suspected...

e: I realise obviously being the best mon in the tier means there aren’t a huge amount of flaws but there are still some present. Middling speed, bulk that is only slightly better than ok without significant HP+defenses investment especially on the special side, 4x weakness to fire making it vulnerable to hidden power from any mon with a passable SpA stat. Charmflash’s post on this in the last thread was good he probably has more and expanded on them too.

Viewpoint is still the same as in the previous thread linked in the OP, I posted like 4 times there so I’ll make it short: I think banning Scizor at this time will do more harm for the tier than good due to the potential knock on effects of a ban and the time constraints and tours coming up.
 
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Pearl

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UU Leader
Isn’t the OP for a suspect supposed to provide a balanced viewpoint? There’s literally one line about Scizor having counters dependent on its coverage, otherwise the rest is very heavily telling me how fantastic it is! If I was new to UU I would be questioning why this wasn’t straight up banned instead of being suspected...
you're not the first person to bring this up so i'll elaborate on it a little since it is an important aspect as far as the integrity of a suspect test goes, but the OP is not supposed to appeal to one side of the argument more than the other in any way. apologies if it came across as such, but it honestly did not sound wrong to me as i was writing it
 

vivalospride

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got reqs, no idea what im voting yet but im putting this here so i dont forget it in the future


EDIT (I felt like this post was empty af):
Scizor gets around it's checks really easily and covering all it's variations of SD sets is really hard. Amoonguss/Alo/Other just bulky blanket check type mons can help with the CB sets, taking U-turns n shit but just aren't enough for SD. A lot of people rely on guss like their sciz matchup is aight and then +2 bug bite murders them, or +2 bug z, etc. Quick Attack makes a lot of the more frail sciz checks like nape pretty useless if you let it set up, and other checks like heattom hate switching into knock. Coba checks a lot of variations of sciz but there's always the fight z/cb superpower to look out for. Tenta checks but is frail af physically, and Doub doesn't immediately threaten it too much while it also doesn't check knock sets. Scizor shreds through teams and works around it's checks to an extent that's incomparable to anything else in the tier for sure. But it also is really the only thing stopping a lot of things from being too much in the tier. Malt and sd rak for example both have their fair share of checks, but in terms of offensively pressuring these mons there's nothing that does it more consistently than sciz. A lot of teams that have like guss/glig as their fighting resists rely on sciz to keep something like sd rak from winning. Idk i'm literally just rambling b/c as I said I have no idea what I'm voting, sciz has it's fair amount of checks and counters and all that for sure and I don't think it's broken by any means, but it's very very dominant w/o a doubt.

Main reason im making this post tho is to give y'all a team if you want.
 
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Perish Song

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This might be the most unpredictable suspect test UU has held this generation. No one can deny the influence Scizor has, for most it is referred as the "Glue mon of UU", just like how Landorus-T is for OU. The OP is clear enough to accurately reflect what Scizor is capable of, for me the problem of this suspect will be what comes after it. Knowing the way the community reacted on Zygarde suspect for OU, I have very little hope that Scizor will stay in the tier and what comes next is just a huge question mark. We will be removing the most influential Pokemon in the tier.

My main prediction is that there will be a chain of bans if Scizor actually gets banned, as is follows:
M-Alt gets rid of one of its strongest checks, thus the need for bulky Fire Blast sets are now unnecessary, M-Alt becomes the top Mon of the tier. (This also invalidates the need for Magneton)
M-Alt gets banned.
Lack of both Scizor and M-Alt heavily favors Latias, making it more bullshit than ever.
Latias gets banned.
Losing the top 3 mons that can somewhat check Terrakion offensively is now banned, Terrakion becomes the next bullshit mon.
Terrakion gets banned.
Heracross will invalidate stall as M-Alt is no longer present, forcing bullshit builds like Wing Attack Gligar or promote M-Aero in stall teams again.
???
[/Spoilers]
 
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176175

Like vivalospride, i can't pronounce myself on this suspect :blobsad:

But, please in this page, can you argumentative goodly.
I don't want to see sophism like this::facepalm:
1/
Landorus-T is not banworthy
Scizor is the Landorus-T of UU
Then, Scizor is not banworthy

2/
If we ban Scizor, then M-Altaria will be broken, so Scizor is not banworthy.

3/
There is only 6 months before the next Pokemon game, so it is a complete madness to ban Scizor right now. (Council of UU decides to make a suspect about Scizor, so they decide that we CAN ban Scizor and see the consequences after).

I use this classic Aggron stall for the suspect: https://pokepast.es/4afc526031c2ea98
 
View attachment 176175
Like vivalospride, i can't pronounce myself on this suspect :blobsad:

But, please in this page, can you argumentative goodly.
I don't want to see sophism like this::facepalm:
1/
Landorus-T is not banworthy
Scizor is the Landorus-T of UU
Then, Scizor is not banworthy

2/
If we ban Scizor, then M-Altaria will be broken, so Scizor is not banworthy.

3/
There is only 6 months before the next Pokemon game, so it is a complete madness to ban Scizor right now. (Council of UU decides to make a suspect about Scizor, so they decide that we CAN ban Scizor and see the consequences after).

I use this classic Aggron stall for the suspect: https://pokepast.es/4afc526031c2ea98
I agree with what you said, but i need to point out to you, even if Scizor is banned, we still have Amoongus, M-Aggron, Bronzong, M-Steelix, etc. It won't be broken;, just really good.
 
I agree with what you said, but i need to point out to you, even if Scizor is banned, we still have Amoongus, M-Aggron, Bronzong, M-Steelix, etc. It won't be broken;, just really good.
I'm not so sure about this. As I understand it, Mega Altaria has been considered borderline broken for awhile now. Banning its most prominent check would probably be enough to send it over the edge.
 
I don't really have a secure opinion on the situation regarding Scizor as I am very split on the subject. I'll probably echo quite a few of the points already brought up in this thread as a result of this, but I wanted to provide my opinion and hopefully see more posts being made regarding Scizor. This is without a doubt the biggest and probably the most important suspect this gen, so it is no surprise that there are very mixed feelings about it. Personally, I am unsure on whether Scizor is defined as broken, but for now I like Vivs representation of it being the most dominant Pokemon in the tier. Scizor has access to a wide range of sets which achieve different functions to allow it to break past all of its checks. It is pretty hard to cover all of the options it can run so most teams are forced to have at least two counters / checks to it. For me this isn't a massive issue most of the time, but it does put a bit of restriction on team building. LO Bug Bite Scizor have become extremely popular recently, being a lot harder to switch into especially with how open the third slot is: Knock Off, Superpower, Quick Attack. This has already been discussed, but I agree our meta is in a state where 'broken checks broken'. I don't think this is best thing or what you want to achieve, but it has lead to us having a balanced tier for the last year. So, while I think it isn't the most optimal meta, it has been beneficial for the tier for the most part.

I've seen quite a few posts comparing it to Landorus-T in OU which I guess I can understand due to how omnipresent the two are. They are both really splashable too and thus are considered the glue to the tier. For instance, it isn't that surprising to see Scizor on every team thanks to it being able to fit on every single archetype. I acknowledge that it honestly prevents a lot of shit getting out of control. This has already been touched on, but in a tier without Scizor there will undoubtedly be bans as a consequence. Mega Altaria is borderline broken as is, so removing the best offensive check to it is going to resort in its suspect (Ofc the council has rightfully noticed this and replied regarding this matter). With the two powerhouses of UU gone both Latias and Terrakion become a whole lot better thanks to two offensive checks to them being removed from the tier. If we then believe these two to be broken and ban worthy, I think there are a lot of other things that become an issue. For example, Togekiss looks like it becomes worrying with a Scizor and Terrakless tier, Infernape is already insane so what happens when you remove two defensive answers in Malt and Lati etc. The main point I want to get across is I think there will probably be a lot more issues under the surface, ofc we won't know all of them unless we actually try a tier like this. Maybe these Pokemon won't even be issues with the banning of said Mons, so this is all speculation. The new meta tourney will probably give me more insight of this, which may help finalize my judgment.

In all honestly, I'm still a little worried we might not have enough time to look at everything but I trust the judgment of the council as they have at the very least layed out a plan for us as to how the situation will be handled. I think this is definitely the best and only chance to have this suspect, so personally I am glad the subject was brought up and us as the community have been given the power to determine the outcome. I think the main thing aside from people determining for themselves whether Scizor is broken is to consider whether this will all lead to us having a better meta and tier at the end of this all. Ofc this isn't an easy feat; I don't think anyone can be completely sure of this with so many undetermined factors. This is still a question I'll be asking myself before I vote, assuming I get reqs that is. Personally, I think we will digress away from this idea of 'broken checking broken' which is a good thing, but there will definitely be factors that could make the tier worse as a whole. I just wouldn't want to see the tier to end up similar to ORAS where a few things have been left unchecked, but I do have faith in the council to not leave SM in said state.

At the end of the day the power has been given to us to make this decision and I mainly hope people vote ban or not ban for the right reasons. I would hate for the scenario of let's ban Scizor because it will be fun to play a new meta, similar to Zygarde, or for people to just bandwagon onto the concept of banning it. I would much prefer if people came to the decision themselves as to whether Scizor is indeed broken and if it will lead to us having a better metagame as a result of it being gone. Again, I am still unsure on the matter and what I will be voting for if I get reqs but I would love to see some more conversation get sparked regarding this suspect. I look forward to reading the future posts made in this thread ^_^
 

Amane Misa

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Just got the reqs myself, and pretty comfortably.

Similarly to vivalospride, I used a dual screens team, but the one I used is better than his because mine has a Xatu.



Unlike most of the posts here, I wanted to dedicate mine, mostly, to discuss screens, a playstyle that is on the rise right now and is pretty monstrous, in my opinion.

To try and analyze the reasons behind screens suddenly becoming so good, let's talk about some characteristics of the present metagame:
  • The metagame is infested with Scizor.
  • BO is, arguably, the best playstyle, right before balance, stall, and hyper offense (not necessarily in this particular order and no playstyle really falls behind by much).
How did Scizor even become the infestation of UU? There are obvious reasons like its great typing, stats, Technician-boosted Bullet Punches, and et cetera. However, there is one less obvious reason that many have figured out going into this suspect test:
  • Scizor is able to check other top pocket monsters in UU, that are Mega Altaria, Terrakion, Latias, and Celebi, which is a very valuable utility for every playstyle.
Which means that oftentimes teams rely on, let's say, Scizor/Doublade + Krookodile + Rotom-H/Tentacruel for the defensive utility of the team and dedicate the other three team members for breaking/cleaning.

Examples are shown in these UUPL games:
  1. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7uu-433303 (elodin's team).
  2. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7uu-433316 (Moutemoute's team uses Doublade > Scizor and Rotom-C > Rotom-H, but the formula remains the same).
  3. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-888899940 (basaninho's team).
  4. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ou-433343 (Indigo Plateau's team uses Doublade > Scizor, but the formula remains the same).
How does all of this relate to the rise of dual screens, though?

The C+-ranked Feraligatr is, ironically, a face on dual screens teams, and is honestly so good right now. It has the tools to bypass the aforementioned Scizor/Doublade + Krookodile + Rotom-H/Tentacruel core thanks to the combination of a great setup move in Dragon Dance, great sheer power, an excellent STAB move, and near-perfect coverage. However, between Haze Tentacruel into revenge-killing with Scarf Krookodile/Latias, more offensive teams haven't had that many issues taking care of it. With the help of dual screens, Feraligatr is able to literally set up on the aforementioned checkers and has proven to be a very threatening Pokemon.

However, it doesn't end there. Aurora Veil has been the dominant cheese-playstyle for most of the generation, but it has fallen behind, partially because of the popularity of Rotom-H as a Defogger and Scizor's strong Bullet Punch checking it. Dual screens can afford to utilize different Stealth Rock and screens setters which gives the playstyle more dimensions than it seems, which makes even preparing for this playstyle much more difficult.

The popular Aurora Veil staples in Scizor, Latias, Linoone, and more, are also the face of dual screens teams, because of their phenomenal offensive synergy. I know that it is pretty obvious, but I still want to provide replays of the aforementioned staples winning games thanks to the aid of screens:
  1. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-904476800 - we have all watched the game of vivalospride vs Lycans - screens granted Feraligatr with the setup opportunities that were required for it to make vivalospride's work breaking Lycan's team much easier.
  2. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7uu-442252 - again, screens provided Haxorus and Feraligatr with the setup opportunities they needed.
  3. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-914362599 - even though my opponent haven't played the best they could have, Linoone was able to set up on Mega Altaria thanks to Reflect reducing Mega Altaria's Return damage to only 32.6%.
  4. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-914346373 - no screens action this time, but this replays shows how threatening Feraligatr actually is.
Both vivalospride and I got the reqs relatively quickly with dual screens teams and with a great record (I went 41W-4L), and more people started using the playstyle. I do not necessarily say that further actions should be done on this playstyle, but I wrote this comment to light up this rather dark and under-the-radar topic. This is just my opinion, though. My opinions might not reflect everyone's opinion on why dual screens gained popularity and why is it that good, but one can not say that this playstyle is not :blobpex:.

Thanks for reading!
 

Freeroamer

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Can someone remind me why we don’t ban using the Pokémon on the ladder in suspect tests anymore? I do remember there being very good reasons for this but I can’t actually remember what those reasons are. Just wondering because so much of the discussion has been based around whether Scizor has a more negative than positive effect on the tier and it would also give a head start on looking at a metagame post-Scizor, so it seems like it would’ve been a decent option in this case?
 
Can someone remind me why we don’t ban using the Pokémon on the ladder in suspect tests anymore? I do remember there being very good reasons for this but I can’t actually remember what those reasons are. Just wondering because so much of the discussion has been based around whether Scizor has a more negative than positive effect on the tier and it would also give a head start on looking at a metagame post-Scizor, so it seems like it would be a decent option in this case?
IIRC it's for the people who are new and don't play the tier regularly. People who've been playing the tier probably already have an opinion, while the newer players can form an opinion by seeing said suspected 'mon in action.
 

Hogg

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UU & Tour Head
It's not just for new players, though certainly that's part of it.

In general, there are a few reasons. The first and foremost is that, yes, keeping the suspected 'mon on the ladder means that we have a guarantee that anyone who votes has at a minimum played 45 games in a Scizor meta. While that's probably not super important for those of us who have played thousands of UU games, it definitely helps weed out uninformed voting from people who are not UU regulars. These suspect tests get advertised on social media and also tend to draw a lot of curiosity from other tiers, so there are always people voting who don't have the same familiarity that you or I might. We want to make sure that anyone who votes at least has some familiarity with what they're voting on.

The second big reason is that (in theory, at least), suspect tests are meant to focus on the aspect being suspected. In general, we want people to vote based on Scizor's impact on the current metagame, rather than voting based on how much we enjoy the Scizor-free suspect ladder. It's especially true when you consider that suspects tend to be times when we have a bunch of people unfamiliar with the tier laddering. With this particular test it's a bit more awkward, since a lot of people specifically have reservations that banning Scizor will destabilize the tier and are interested to see how that bears out, but it's still relevant. Is playing 45 games in a Scizor-free ladder really going to tell you what you need to know about Scizor to vote on it?

Anyhow, I'll post my full thoughts later, but I do plan to vote no ban. I think Scizor has an overall positive impact on the meta despite how difficult it is to defensively check. Yes, if you're running a defensive team, you probably do need to run redundant checks to it (though the same is true for things like Latias and Mega Altaria), but it also provides so much offensive utility in one little slot that I think it overall makes teambuilding easier, not harder. Scizor's strong Bullet Punch is an amazing check not just to things like Terrak/Alt/Aero but to basically everything that doesn't resist it, and it single-handedly (clawedly?) allows teams to get away with not running hard defensive answers to every single threat. I think the overall effect is to make teams less reliant on matchup fishing and in turn to make the metagame more robust. I'll elaborate a bit more when I have time, but that's where I stand right now.
 

Moutemoute

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176356


Alright so here we go again for another suspect test. Like other players who already posted, I'm clearly on the fence on this suspect test and while I have the feeling this suspect test is 100% legit, I also feel like it's definitively a bit late to talk about banishing Scizor..

Before I talk about Scizor, I got my reqs just barely by using the same team I used for Mega Sableye Suspect Test :

176357


By the way, let's talk about my thought on Scizor...

Pros of banning Scizor :

• Since Scizor puts a ton of pressure on the teambuilding, the fact that he's gone means that people will not have to run dedicated Pokemon to check it which means more diversity within the tier.
• Scizor invalidates on its own some Pokemon from the lower tier which means we may be able to see some new Pokemon if Scizor had to leave the tier (I think about Pokemon which are pretty weak to Scizor's priority : Bullet Punch ; like Gardevoir, Whimsicott or Espeon). On this other, some Pokemon in Underused will be better like Nihilego.

Cons of banning Scizor :

• Some Pokemon will become way better and even too good for the tier. I know there is some people which don't like the point "broken checks broken" but if we lose Scizor, then some Pokemon become right away better like Terrakion, Mega Altaria, Mamoswine or even Latias. This Pokemon are already top tier and they will become for sure better if Scizor had to leave the tier.
• If some Pokemon become too good, we're going to need other suspect tests and while I don't have an issue with that under normal circumstances, there is one major point which makes me believe that banishing Scizor is not a good idea at all. Indeed, there is only a couple months left before the 8th Generation (something like 6/7 months) and I definitively don't want to see UU being a mess during the next few months. Heres a quite simple example : if Scizor is banned then Mega Altaria become too good because it loses one of its best check / revenge killer which means there is a high probability that it will be ban as well. With that in mind, things like Terrakion or Crawdaunt will become even better while Latias will not have to carry Hidden Power [Fire] anymore. This Pokemon will become even better and they may be suspected as well which means we're gonna have way too much suspect tests. I definitively think it's too late to ban Scizor.. if it had been done, it was six months ago but now it's too late. I don't think we will be able to make a stable UU before 8th generation came out if Scizor is banned. People don't like that comparison but Scizor is our UU-Landorus Therian, it's a glue for the tier and if we banish it now, the tier will fall apart and we will not be able to fix it in time.

tl:dr : my verdict is not yet fixed but I will tend to vote "do not ban".
 

CBU

soul castigation...
is a Tiering Contributor
Just got done with reqs and i would like to take this time to explain why i will be voting 100% hard no ban on scizor. Reading through the pro ban points, i couldn't stop wondering if people are bandwagoning or just being dumb. Because yeah scizor does do all of what you say...since 2016. Consequently, either we had a broken pokemon in the tier for 3 years and nobody took notice or we just decided to label useful and necessary as broken. Furthermore, i would like to adress the point that scizor forces certain meta trends that make UU more stale. I honestly tho cannot look at any mon that rose in usage because of scizor(gligar, rotom-h, doublade, rh cobalion) and say that they are gimmicks. All have uses outside of walling/checkin scizor. A true example of a pokemon having a toxic influence on the meta because of its broken status is latias forcing the triple dark on scarf krook, which outside of revenging latias is a bad set. Lastly, i would like to elaborate on the comment i left previously on the thread (like it, like all my posts and send me presents!). Scizor provides an incredible amount of balance to the tier by being able to revenge prevelant sweepers/breakers that have been previously kicked from tier for being too much(m-alt, terrak etc). If scizor goes, half the tier becomes broken. That is not an opinion, but a fact. So either you let scizor provide balance in the tier with the downside or having big meta shifting influence, or you start suspecting/banning pokemon left and right that are one stab bullet punch away from making the tier unplayable.
 
Just got done with reqs and i would like to take this time to explain why i will be voting 100% hard no ban on scizor. Reading through the pro ban points, i couldn't stop wondering if people are bandwagoning or just being dumb. Because yeah scizor does do all of what you say...since 2016. Consequently, either we had a broken pokemon in the tier for 3 years and nobody took notice or we just decided to label useful and necessary as broken. Furthermore, i would like to adress the point that scizor forces certain meta trends that make UU more stale. I honestly tho cannot look at any mon that rose in usage because of scizor(gligar, rotom-h, doublade, rh cobalion) and say that they are gimmicks. All have uses outside of walling/checkin scizor. A true example of a pokemon having a toxic influence on the meta because of its broken status is latias forcing the triple dark on scarf krook, which outside of revenging latias is a bad set. Lastly, i would like to elaborate on the comment i left previously on the thread (like it, like all my posts and send me presents!). Scizor provides an incredible amount of balance to the tier by being able to revenge prevelant sweepers/breakers that have been previously kicked from tier for being too much(m-alt, terrak etc). If scizor goes, half the tier becomes broken. That is not an opinion, but a fact. So either you let scizor provide balance in the tier with the downside or having big meta shifting influence, or you start suspecting/banning pokemon left and right that are one stab bullet punch away from making the tier unplayable.
Just got done with reqs and i would like to take this time to explain why i will be voting 100% hard no ban on Zygarde in OU. Reading through the pro ban points, i couldn't stop wondering if people are bandwagoning or just being dumb. Because yeah Zygarde does do all of what you say...since 2016. Consequently, either we had a broken pokemon in the tier for 3 years and nobody took notice or we just decided to label useful and necessary as broken.
Do you see the reasoning error ? Moreover, check the definition of broken, uncompetitive and unhealthy. No one says that Scizor is broken.

"If scizor goes, half the tier becomes broken. That is not an opinion, but a fact. "
The metagame post-ban is an entire speculation. So you don't know the impact of the ban of Scizor because you can't know. And this is a fact, not an opinion. Scizor may be the last to be banned from USUM UU.

Your post is the definition of misinformation ... :blobsad:
 
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