Metagame np: SS DOU Stage 2: Out of My League - Melmetal Banned | Magearna Banned

[GRAND EMPRESS]

Comparing Melmetal to Pokemon like Dracovish, Darmanitan and Corviknight is like comparing apples to oranges, in that Melmetal is good, and those mons are bad. The pokemon you have listed are prominent singles threats, because they can beat mons 1v1. The thing about melmetal is that it beats the entire format 1v2. In particular, Melmetal is bulky. There are mons that should counter it with typing, e.g., Incineroar, Excadrill, Dragapult (fire blast), Blastoise, Gastrodon, and others.

However, Melmetal beats each of these pokemon in practice. Incineroar has to put a ton of work in to combat Melmetal, as incin is supposed to switch into it every time Melmetal is in. The Melmetal player can call this switch in and chip incin each time with High Horsepower, or even just DIB. In return, the Melmetal player can switch their own incin in, and take nothing from flare blitz. Melmetal also tanks a life orb High Horsepower from Excadrill if it needs to and does enough damage back to render Excadrill almost useless for the fight. Melmetal takes ~ 40% from LO fire blast and OHKOS pult back. Melmetal's steel attacks can be redirected by Blastoise, but Melmetal 2shots it through sitrus with any chip with thunder punch. Gastrodon gets flinched and dies because it is bad, and can't even 2hko Melmetal with Earth Power.

In contrast, Dracovish gets outsped and ohkoed by Pult, can't protect, isn't bulky, loses hard to Blastoise, gets eviscerated by opposing Tailwind/TR and other speed control. Similarly, Darmanitan is bad because it does not do enough damage and can get killed quite easily. Corviknight does no damage and is forced to set up. It does not matter that Corviknight cannot be intimidated if corv isn't doing anything with that attack stat anyways, except setting up.
Melmetal is immediately active whenever it enters the field and is never threatened with an OHKO, while it trades favorably with every check.

I get your point, but it was mearly an example. I wasn't directly coparing these threats bar Corvinight. On top of tht, I wasn't talking about singles, hence "In the right scenario". I'm well aware that Melmetal entirely outclasses these threats.

If Urshifu is broken, it will be banned.

I agree, but you're entirely missing my point here. Yes, Urhifu imo looks extremely stupid, but my point was we're doing this less than 2 weeks before we're getting another likely drastic meta shift just seem really odd to me.

It does not fill me with dread because every team has melmetal and I generally enjoy dou.

You are wrong.

as a fun example: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8doublesou-1120030700
Melmetal took a Max spatk Togekiss heat wave, an incin overheat, a -1 high horsepower, and took at least 2 kills. Spurrific's opponent forfeit the entire set after this game, in part because melmetal destroyed him so completely.

That's pretty much how I feel and I've adapted accordingly. Like I said, I Haven't felt overwhelmingly pressured by the thing to the point that not using it feels like my team is being purposefully nerfed or that I'll just auto-lose when one of them shows up. And I'm pretty sure I was speaking from 'personal' experience, so how're you going to just outright tell me I'm wrong here? You're free to didsagree but no need to be a prick, fam lol

The teams I'm laddering with for this atm aren't using Melmetal at all nor am I overly prepping for such, just like I've been doing this whole time. So either everyone I've faced is braindead or I'm clearly missing something here. I won't deny its immensely annoying to deal with at times and if played well, and have lost to Melmetal a couple times (Though I've never been put down quite THAT severely), but like I said in my first post, its not like we haven't seen power like or even beyond Melmetal's level before.

From what I see, I do wonder why it wasn't just quickbanned with how gross everyone feels about it and how much of a wash this suspect is shaping up to be (though I could say that about a lot of things).
I'm still hoping that it can possibly get a second look post-DLC, because I do feel like it could be handled a bit more easily. But This round seems

 

[Commander Beta]

When will we be voting? Never participated in a suspect before, so, I don't really know.

 

[MajorBowman]

When will we be voting? Never participated in a suspect before, so, I don't really know.

When the ladder period ends tonight, we'll post a voting thread in the Blind Voting forum and you'll post your vote there.

 

[talkingtree]

Voting for Melmetal has begun in this thread: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ss-dou-melmetal-voting.3665737/

If you qualified but your name isn't in the OP, please send me a PM on Discord (talkingtree#1556) and we'll get it sorted out.

 

[talkingtree]

Well it didn't take long, but Melmetal has been BANNED from Doubles OU! Thanks for a smooth suspect process everyone https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ss-dou-melmetal-voting.3665737/post-8495347

 

[FreshGyro]

Rest in pieces Melmetal. You were very fun to use but also way too good for this tier.

I suppose we will just twiddle our thumbs until gamefreak drops off the next batch of issues in one and a half week. See you then!

 

[GRAND EMPRESS]

Rest in pieces Melmetal. You were very fun to use but also way too good for this tier.

I suppose we will just twiddle our thumbs until gamefreak drops off the next batch of issues in one and a half week. See you then!

Let’s hope to Arceus it also brings something just as fun in addition to the 2 busted ass bears lol
This gen’s meta has been kind of a snooze fest

 

[MajorBowman]

This should surprise exactly zero people, but the DOU Council has unanimously decided to ban Magearna. Soul Heart is an absolutely broken ability and Magearna has the stats, typing, and movepool to fully abuse it.

 

[fespy]

This should surprise exactly zero people, but the DOU Council has unanimously decided to ban Magearna. Soul Heart is an absolutely broken ability and Magearna has the stats, typing, and movepool to fully abuse it.

Who is this “exactly zero people” and why are they surprised? This is a very reasonable decision

 

[Cuddly]

Honestly surprised how little discussion there is over Urshifu.
With its ability, it bypasses protect, and their signature moves can bypass Reflect/Aurora Veil and Intimidate as well.
That’s some insane utility for Doubles in 1 (technically 2) move.

 

[GenOne]

Honestly surprised how little discussion there is over Urshifu.
With its ability, it bypasses protect, and their signature moves can bypass Reflect/Aurora Veil and Intimidate as well.
That’s some insane utility for Doubles in 1 (technically 2) move.

There are a lot of new Pokémon in this metagame now, I think people are still trying things out and gauging what is good / bad in this metagame. My first impression having played some games is that Urshifu is very good on the right team, but isn’t broken by any means. It gets outrun by some of the faster attackers, and its spd isn’t all that great. Choice scarf seems like the best set right now but it’s too early to say.

There’s been a bit of discussion in this thread about all the new Pokémon and how viable they are: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...ed-6-3-on-post-72.3658242/page-4#post-8513067

 

[GRAND EMPRESS]

#FreeKyuB [:

Honestly surprised how little discussion there is over Urshifu.
With its ability, it bypasses protect, and their signature moves can bypass Reflect/Aurora Veil and Intimidate as well.
That’s some insane utility for Doubles in 1 (technically 2) move.

Honestly, I get where you’re coming from. But I don’t feel like Urshifu is exactly overbearing. I see it in a way to pre-Incineroar Hoopa. Its signature moves are indeed a bit absurd and it is powerful and force a very aggressive and think-on-your-toes situation, but also like Hoopa they also have their fare share of drawbacks. The speed tier is a bit awkward, making it great for scarf if you want to sacrifice some power to snipe off a lot of the tiers faster threats, or they can opt for LO to plow through most things. AV is also an interesting option to shore up the lackluster Spd, but I haven’t seen this really help much, especially on the Saitama Bear. A bit of pixie dust will yeet that boi to the Shadow Realm

That also segways into their downfalls. Their poor Spd and typings allow them to get blown back by a lot of very common types in the metagame atm. Rillaboom, Amoongus, Psychic Types, and ofc Fairies essentially ragdoll them given the right circumstances. And unless they’re spamming their crit moves, they are still vulnerable to Intimidate, which very noticeably cuts into their power output.
In addition to that, Their speed tier lets them get outrun by a few notable threats in the meta (assuming they’re not scarfed). Alakazam, Dragapult, Zeraora, and basically any weather sweeper. Both have their set of differing weaknesses, but none too hard to fell in their own right.

Its still mad early and this ofc could change as the meta settles and things get put more into perspective, but atm I see no reason to jump on the Ursa duo. They’re very strong, but they do have clear work-arounds

 

[Red Pill PUA]

I and many others would like to see kyurum B get a proper suspect test. That is the first order of business. But knowing you guys we will have to wait for 5 months for some stupid * tour to conclude.

You guys are slower then are actual real government.

 

[xzern]

You are absolutely right Red Pill PUA. However, we as the doubles community have our priorities straight. All suspects and tiering decisions are on halt for the next five weeks in order to preserve the competitive sanctity of the Girafarig if instead of a line it split off in a triangular formation cup II. Thanks for understanding.

 

[Commander Beta]

When Will there be more DOU smogon tournaments? The ones which last a few months I mean, not the Showdown ones.

 

[Yoda2798]

When Will there be more DOU smogon tournaments? The ones which last a few months I mean, not the Showdown ones.

DOU forum tours are on throughout the year, the schedule for 2020 is found here. The next SS (current gen) tournament will be Fall Seasonal starting August 23rd (signups will be the week before that), but there is currently an SM (last gen) tournament you can sign up for here.

 

[megacrazyhand]

Having played a bit in this newly forming meta (with a lot of thanks to Yoda2798) I can start forming some thoughts on the new additions. We have some fun, cool ones like Expanding Force making PsySpam usable again, Grassy Glide Rillaboom shutting down anyone's attempts to sweep with an Azu (and also checking a worn down rain team nicely), and Kingdra with the power of Hurricane spam added to its old tricks.

I think, however, that Amoongus and Chansey are going to go down as the two most important additions to the meta from the DLC. They both fit wide swaths of teams, add to a consistent bulk game, and provide some of the best team support in the franchise. Amoongus even has a Heal Pulse that can't be redirected to heal the opponent, all while keeping its old redirection tricks and Spore. Or you can be a total dumb dumb (like me) and use dual STAB and forego Regenerator for Effect Spore if you don't expect to switch out much and try to roll a paralysis or sleep on the opponent.

Chansey can help check PsySpam. For example:
252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Expanding Force (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Psychic Terrain: 216-255 (30.7 - 36.2%) -- 53.2% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Indeedee Expanding Force (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Psychic Terrain: 208-246 (29.5 - 34.9%) -- 13.6% chance to 3HKO
Meaning that if you switch in a dark type like Incineroar, the opponent won't be able to claim a single KO that turn. Of course, you could also send in a Rillaboom to just drop the damage being done significantly. PsySpam thrives on taking KOs as fast as possible and the turn that Chansey survives and uses Softboil is another turn lost to the Terrain countdown.

But, of course, that's not the only reason one would use Chansey. It can still handle Kingdra easily and ease matchups against Rain teams. Volcarona also has a hard time breaking it. All the while, it can spread Toxic and heal itself while taking your opponent into Rillaboom Grassy Glide range.

TL;DR the bulk game is strong with the DLC and Pokemon like Chansey and Amoongus are going to go down as spammable checks to help teams deal with popular offensive team archetypes that are currently used.