Metagame np: SS Ubers Stage 3 - Interlude

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Ready for chaos?​

Welcome to the start of the Crown Tundra metagame! Hope everyone's safe out there.

If you missed the council notice a couple weeks ago going over the details behind how we are going to handle the Crown Tundra (and why) then it's a good idea to read it - I'll quote it below:
The Crown Tundra is coming in 2 weeks! Let's talk how things have been and what the council is thinking regarding the new metagame.

At the end of UPL we lost Hack, Reje, and Cynara and added Icemaster, TrueNora, Skysolo and TonyFlygon. Once they were added we started to discuss plans for the remainder of this DLC and figured that we should poll the tournament playerbase using a survey asking about their opinion on the meta and how they felt about Dynamax, with our primary thought being a full Dynamax test. The day that we finalized this survey... the Crown Tundra was announced for October 22nd, a month earlier than we expected. We suddenly didn't have the time to hold any sort of test or discussion and our Isle of Armor plans were effectively cancelled and all discussion was focused on the fast approaching DLC 2 metagame.

I want to go over the Dynamax Clause and how I felt it did. We knew from day 1 of implementing the clause that it was a temporary solution and would require different measures in DLC 2 when a massive amount of Ubers return to the metagame. Up to this point I think the idea was worth the attempt. The metagame has some very strong Dynamax users that could have been considered for action but the timing just didn't pan out, yet the metagame is still competitively playable and was enjoyed in UPL. I don't regret taking the higher risk higher reward option - reward being that more elements remained in the metagame. You are welcome to disagree with the results.

The problem with the Dynamax Clause is now going to be very apparent in DLC 2 - maintaining it. As it stands, a small number of Pokemon are on the list, some of which are comparatively weak and in a perfect world would have been tested for removal like Solgaleo. It doesn't include the new Dynamax terrors we are confirmed to get such as Xerneas, Yveltal and Zygarde.

The first thought may be to just get the council to agree on adding all the probable Dynamax nightmares to the clause immediately and work from there, but there are numerous issues with this.

Firstly, by automatically adding threats to the Dynamax Clause we are banning things without even seeing them in the metagame, which is poor tiering. Even Mega Rayquaza and the post-Home Dynamax Ubers had time in the metagame before action was taken because we had strong evidence and the community experienced it for themselves and overwhelmingly agreed. It might be fairly obvious that the new additions will cause problems, but drawing the line is impossible without seeing for ourselves. The other factor in this line of thinking is that if we waited and watched how the new additions fared in the metagame first while keeping the clause intact, we would have Yveltal and Xerneas free to use Dynamax but Solgaleo couldn't do it. It doesn't take much thinking to see how silly that is.

Secondly, there are so many potential threats that Dynamax can turn into terrors even outside of Ubers. Dynamax on some returning lower tier threats could be just as threatening - Landorus-T for example. Even now we wondered if the common Dynamax users deserved action, and that would have to be considered in a theoretical DLC 2 clause sweep as well. There are too many threats in theory to be sure, and any that escape the initial wave would likely need suspect tests to be added meaning a massive number of suspect tests. Ubers shouldn't be the metagame that does non stop testing. It's a sign of an administrative mistake if Ubers is doing more suspect tests than any other Smogon tier for the sake of competitive integrity. It would be better to do a "big" test than lots of small ones, which is to say, it would be better to test Dynamax entirely than constantly iterate on an idea that is no longer fit for purpose.

We considered clearing the clause of mons and making another list of mons as a council after some time into DLC 2 similarly to the Home strategy, but when the above arguments are all considered and the community restlessness about the Dynamax Clause leading up to this point, we decided it isn't the best play.

What I'm getting at here is that at the start of the Crown Tundra metagame, we will be disabling the Dynamax Clause and suspect testing Dynamax as a whole soon after. This cuts all the questions down into one - is Dynamax too much for Ubers as a mechanic given the strength of so many different users? We are about to reach the point where we are bending too much for the sake of a mechanic that causes us no end of headaches. DLC 2 is the perfect opportunity to put all the cards on the table and decisively figure out if Dynamax is worth keeping in the tier.

Here's the short version - we are starting the Crown Tundra metagame with the Dynamax Clause disabled and will suspect test Dynamax itself in the near future. That means this thread will be fairly short lived, but it will make for a good accounting of how the community feels about the very start of what is going to be a chaotic period for the metagame.

Once PS is stable and the meta/ladder has been given a bit of room to... develop... then we can start the suspect test. Expected timeline is 1-2 weeks from now, but no guarantees. Remember that the simulator might take some time to be fully up to speed.

Our push for resources and tournaments will be on hold until the Dynamax test concludes, with the exception of a subforum kickoff tour (fast deadlines) which will more or less serve as metagame preparation for the suspect ladder - stay tuned for that.

In the meantime, if you got any thoughts on the new metagame feel free to post it here! Note: This thread should be for tangible metagame experiences. Theorymon/speculation should still go into the speculation thread.
 
I got a question: what about Gmax? The mons that can Gmax in the current Metagame aren't as broken as let's say a Dmax Lando. Can we maybe suspect Gmax after Dmax as a whole gets banned? Just a little suspect wouldn't hurt, right?

I understand that it would be a daunting task to ban all the problematic mons, cause there are many of them. And even if Gmax doesn't get suspected serperately after a Dmax suspect, I'd be fine with it. I am just throwing this on the table to see what the thoughts are on this in the community.

Haven't played much of the Metagame so far (actually, haven't played at all), but the new horses look cool, although the Ice one might have a pretty hard time with DMNecro in the tier. The ghost one seems dope too, but it does face competition with Lunala.

Ho-oh looks like a great defogger and check to mons like Zacian and DMNecro with it's typing accompanied by HDB, and I could see it even destroy many common walls in the tier with a potential Band set, especially with aid of Groudon and its sun.

Last but not least I wanna say no matter what happens to Dmax/Gmax, this meta might be the most fun ubers in a while. Lack of Pdon and Mega's + Very fun new additions to the tier should make for a great experience! Cheers!
 
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I got a question: what about Gmax? The mons that can Gmax in the current Metagame aren't as broken as let's say a Dmax Lando. Can we maybe suspect Gmax after Dmax as a whole gets banned? Just a little suspect wouldn't hurt, right?
GMax and DMax are functionally the same mechanic. At that point we are basically complex banning individual max moves, and we *still* have the same problems associated with the Dynamax Clause.
 
GMax and DMax are functionally the same mechanic. At that point we are basically complex banning individual max moves, and we *still* have the same problems associated with the Dynamax Clause.
It is the same mechanic, only Gmax applies to mons like Garbodor and Zard, not any of the ubers. My question is just could we maybe see if this Gmaxes are a problem is we get rid of all Dmax except those ones.
 
I think it's a complex ban that goes against tiering policy.
It's not that complex tho. It's at least less complex than the Dmax banlist.

Btw isn't there an AG tier where we can use Dmax anyways? Tbh I don't even really care if Gmax is legal, I just feel like it would be weird if there would be no place at all to use this mechanic.
 

Cynara

Banned deucer.
What further emperical evidence has to be further articulated on Dynamax exactly? I don't see how much more we have to prove this, when Dynamax is already proven to be an absolutely absurd mechanic pre-DLC1. Further additions, DLC1 and now DLC2 with Xern, Yveltal, Kyogre etc, have only further intensified this, not made it better. Just council vote it out of existence lol. The council decided to ignore my critique as a ex-council member after home release, and decide instead to implement Ubers Dynamax clause, and this attempt to try and "balance" the dynamax mechanic failed as I projected.

That being said.... I've been playing this """meta""" for a handful of hours now and it's absolute chaos, It's literally not playable. My general opinion on Dynamax and everything political on this issue mostly remains unchanged. Except this DLC inclusion takes everything to a whole new level than previously before. Dynamax really isnt my only issue with this meta either. The real problem is the Ghost Rider horse thingy, playing with it feels very similar to the brief stint that was Mray ORAS. It forces basically Yveltal (specs 2hkos) / Ttar (dies to GK) + Ditto or Offense orientated archetypes. Bulkier teams simply lacking these just get obliterated by Nasty Plot. It's absurdly strong and can even snowball a sweep thanks to its ability. please look into the ghost horse after dynamax ban.

I refuse to participate in this meta seriously until both elements are gone.
 
Sorry, my opinion may not be considered at all because I havent been very active, but as a player thats playing Ubers again and the run I did in last seasonal all I can say is: Dynamax is broken, I can't understand how Dynamax will solve metagame issues, specially when we have Calyrex-Shadow Rider around, Ditto in almost every team, Yveltal and Xerneas, allow Dynamax is just give these firepower and breaking the balance in the tier, Dynamax is unhealth for metagame and u guys will see the stuff soon, even Rayquaza can be a big threat w Dynamax thanks to status boosts from Dmax moves.

I would recommend test the metagame with Dynamax banned, its much better, fun, and health meta
 

Icemaster

is a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
AG Circuit Champion
Calyrex is broken. I'm not calling for a suspect now, Dynamax is more pressing, but I do think Calyrex should be examined shortly after Dynamax.

Without Sucker Punch Defensive Yveltal, every team loses to NP calyrex straight away. It's hard to revenge kill, Scarfers arent common, mons like Scarf Kyogre just lose to dynamax Calyrex anyway. Marsh is bad. Either way if you're relying on scarfers/priority like marshadow you're just losing a mon to Calyrex each time it comes in. The dominant set right now is Specs though, if the team does not have yveltal, then calyrex doesn't need to click NP, it can just click STABs and take mons out. Comparisons to Zacian-C are just wrong, while its stats may look like Zac's, Calyrex is far better at wallbreaking. Zac had a good hard counter Quagsire, and an extremely common other option for teams in NDM. Both of these operated pretty well, and Zacian had other pokemon which could actually do stuff to it, dyna washtom, rocky helm corvi etc. For Calyrex, teams need sucker yve - literally only 1 option. Using mandibuzz or ttar is stupid, they both suck and die to coverage/trick/koff just like defensive Yve. Offensive Yve variants only switch in once under rocks which kinda sucks - they take like 40% from specs. Defensive Variants are very very easy to destroy, it only takes them getting poisoned/wisped/koff/tricked by calyrex itself to just get shutdown. You cannot sacrifice mons to calyrex, its ability forces scenarios where if it gets one kill, it wins the game. Every team starts with Calyrex and Yveltal; as Calyrex is a wallbreaker far superior to zacian. It has no true counters and every team is forced to run it and its best check, yveltal. So nearly all teams counterplay is 1) yveltal, 2) speed tie. I think this mon is far more alike to ORAS Mega Rayquaza than SS Zacian C, and I think action should be taken promptly after the Dynamax Suspect.

Here are some replays for your viewing pleasure
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ubers-1208514096-040fhmj5bcqdld0qqhdx0i3sjncjrxkpw wtf even was this game, almost lost to two mons only winning bc speedtie
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ubers-1208007444-ln8wlo97drp40vysfzhwo2pqhtwofimpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ubers-1208543143-ypmge4f7qjmx5d6ezj1eyl9q4cnn4srpw Calyrex speed ties make for a great meta
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ubers-1208020124
 
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Running Psychic Terrain, as in the move, doesn't seem like a terrible idea on Calyrex tbh. It only really needs two offensive moves, and Psychic Terrain (unlike Max Mindstorm) causes Sucker Punch to fail while blocking it on subsequent turns *and* buffs Psychic attacks for a while.

You can't really run Choice on this set so NP, Sub or Wisp all seem like viable moves for slot 4; I'd use NP with Life Orb for the guaranteed win vs Zacian switchins, but Sub is an option for dealing with Ditto.
 
Don't underestimate Calyrex Ice Rider, it's an absolutely brutal TR sweeper with Weakness Policy. With this set, its two only flaws, namely bad defensive type and low speed, become great assets.
It has the bulk to comfortably take a SE hit and no 4x weaknesses so WP is the perfect item for it, and that horrid speed makes it one of the fastest TR abusers, which it learns.

Its main STAB, Glacial Lance, is arguably the best physical move in the game, and it has High Horsepower for the notoriously amazing ice/ground coverage. The 4th move can be basically whatever it wants: CC for fighting coverage, Zen Headbutt for secondary STAB, Sub for status protection, even Leech Seed for some recovery on a switch, though it's situational.

Did I mention it has Moxie as ability, as if it needed an extra atk boost? Even without Dynamax this thing is a total monster. This is not your average disappointing bulky ice type.
 
Calyrex is broken. I'm not calling for a suspect now, Dynamax is more pressing, but I do think Calyrex should be examined shortly after Dynamax.

Without Sucker Punch Defensive Yveltal, every team loses to NP calyrex straight away. It's hard to revenge kill, Scarfers arent common, mons like Scarf Kyogre just lose to dynamax Calyrex anyway. Marsh is bad. Either way if you're relying on scarfers/priority like marshadow you're just losing a mon to Calyrex each time it comes in. The dominant set right now is Specs though, if the team does not have yveltal, then calyrex doesn't need to click NP, it can just click STABs and take mons out. Comparisons to Zacian-C are just wrong, while its stats may look like Zac's, Calyrex is far better at wallbreaking. Zac had a good hard counter Quagsire, and an extremely common other option for teams in NDM. Both of these operated pretty well, and Zacian had other pokemon which could actually do stuff to it, dyna washtom, rocky helm corvi etc. For Calyrex, teams need sucker yve - literally only 1 option. Using mandibuzz or ttar is stupid, they both suck and die to coverage/trick/koff just like defensive Yve. Offensive Yve variants only switch in once under rocks which kinda sucks - they take like 40% from specs. Defensive Variants are very very easy to destroy, it only takes them getting poisoned/wisped/koff/tricked by calyrex itself to just get shutdown. You cannot sacrifice mons to calyrex, its ability forces scenarios where if it gets one kill, it wins the game. Every team starts with Calyrex and Yveltal; as Calyrex is a wallbreaker far superior to zacian. It has no true counters and every team is forced to run it and its best check, yveltal. So nearly all teams counterplay is 1) yveltal, 2) speed tie. I think this mon is far more alike to ORAS Mega Rayquaza than SS Zacian C, and I think action should be taken promptly after the Dynamax Suspect.

Here are some replays for your viewing pleasure
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ubers-1208514096-040fhmj5bcqdld0qqhdx0i3sjncjrxkpw wtf even was this game, almost lost to two mons only winning bc speedtie
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ubers-1208007444-ln8wlo97drp40vysfzhwo2pqhtwofimpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ubers-1208543143-ypmge4f7qjmx5d6ezj1eyl9q4cnn4srpw Calyrex speed ties make for a great meta
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ubers-1208020124
With Calyrex and other of the new Ubers being able to Dynamax, I don’t think its a fair comparison of its power.
Also, as far as counters go, Tyranitar exists, which is a lot more useful than Quagsire outside of their role of stopping Calyrex/Zacian respectfully.
Chansey (or Blissey if Clayrex is packing Psychic instead of Psyshock) can also be an answer with Thunder Wave, severally crippling Calyrex (although it gets screwed over by Gothitelle)

This isn’t to say Calyrex is bad. It is arguably better than Zacian-C with its speed, ability to hold items, and undermining Unaware users, it’s way too earlier to suspect it. Especially when it can Dynamax and there still are more true answers to it than Zacian-C (ironically).
 
I’v been playing around in the meta, and CB Yveltal is a monster. I could argue it being the best Pokemon in the Meta.

With very few Pokemon that have an un-knockable item, one of which is a Ghost Type, Yveltal’s not only has disgusting Power with CB and Dark Aura, but it will remove those very important items off of Pokemon. This lets Yveltal punch the holes into defensive cores that otherwise halt your sweep.
Quagsire and Tyranitar now can’t escape traps, Necrozma either dies or is severally weakened, Ho-oh loses its boots, Xerneas has to use Geomancy without Power Herb, ect.

And then there is sucker punch. It turns Yveltal from a strong wallbreaker to help the tier’s sweepers, to an essential asset where you are worse off for not having a Yveltal. I always make sure to preserve Yveltal until Calyrex-GR, Calyrex-IR, Kyogre, Marshadow, and Zacian-C are gone, even if my Ho-oh, Kyogre, and Tyranitar are still healthy. These Pokemon are incredibly dangerous and Yveltal’s Sucker Punch is a sure fire way to stop them (Well Zacian-C only if its close to death or paralyzed) at the end game.

You then have U-turn, and Yveltal’s Speed tier.
While not the fastest Pokemon in Ubers, it’s going to get a U-turn off so often. Combined with Sucker Punch and Knock Off, it’s one of the best leads you can have.


Also, can I get some advice?
What would be the best item for TR Calyrex-IR?
Currently using Sitrus Berry, which is decent, but I feel that’s kind of too little amount of healing for a sweeper like that.
Calyrex-Ice @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: As One (Glastrier)
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Glacial Lance
- Superpower
- Zen Headbutt
Currently using Superpower here too since Dynamax (for God knows what reason) is unbanned for all Pokemon.
 
Currently using Superpower here too since Dynamax (for God knows what reason) is unbanned for all Pokemon.
Why not Close Combat? Sp Def is probably gonna be a less costly stat to reduce than Attack on a Pokemon like Calyrex-Ice. Though I think High Horsepower is probably too useful to miss out on, because you *need* a way to deal with Zacian-C and Max Quake guarantees the KO while gaining a much-appreciated special defence boost.

As for item, Weakness Policy is probably worth considering.
 
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Also, can I get some advice?
What would be the best item for TR Calyrex-IR?
Currently using Sitrus Berry, which is decent, but I feel that’s kind of too little amount of healing for a sweeper like that.
Calyrex-Ice @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: As One (Glastrier)
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Glacial Lance
- Superpower
- Zen Headbutt
Currently using Superpower here too since Dynamax (for God knows what reason) is unbanned for all Pokemon.
Like Rarycaris said WP is a nice item since its typing makes it so a lot of mons can activate it.
Life Orb also works if you want the immediate damage
tbh I'd run something like Trick Room/Glacial Lance/High Horsepower/Seed Bomb
Glacial Lance and High Horsepower can take on a large majority of the viable metagame while Seed Bomb exists to smack Kyogre and Kyogre only.
I don't think Zen Headbutt is all that worth it since High Horsepower and Seed Bomb do more damage than Zen Headbutt does on mons that resist Glacial Lance.
 
Like Rarycaris said WP is a nice item since its typing makes it so a lot of mons can activate it.
Life Orb also works if you want the immediate damage
tbh I'd run something like Trick Room/Glacial Lance/High Horsepower/Seed Bomb
Glacial Lance and High Horsepower can take on a large majority of the viable metagame while Seed Bomb exists to smack Kyogre and Kyogre only.
I don't think Zen Headbutt is all that worth it since High Horsepower and Seed Bomb do more damage than Zen Headbutt does on mons that resist Glacial Lance.
Zen Headbutt does have a use in setting up Psychic Terrain with Dynamax.
Without it, Calyrex is extremely vulnerable to Yveltal’s Sucker Punch. It also already hits Kyogre hard too.
 

Manaphy

taking a break
is a Tiering Contributor
I totally agree with Ice and cynara here, I think Calyrex-Shadow Rider is an extremely overcentralizing metagame threat than can deal with it's one check, Yveltal, extremely well. Dynamax, as I argued in previous threads, definitely needs to go as well. Thankfully, I think both eventually will go, as I think there is wide agreement by many people about these two issues, although that shouldn't make us lazy about the vote coming up. If Caly and Dyna end up being banned, then Zacian should eventually end up being looked at as well; truthfully, I have a lot more mixed feelings about that mon.

Anyway, I want to posts some sets/some teams that I think are cool in the meantime, since a lot of people liked the posts I did here on the forums back in the launch days of SS.


Regieleki @ Light Clay
Ability: Transistor
EVs: 160 HP / 252 SpA / 96 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder
- Rapid Spin
- Reflect
- Light Screen

I initially though Regieleki might be unviable, due to completely getting cockblocked by Ground types, but then I discovered that Screens works pretty well on this thing. In particular, Regieleki has a niche on offense/hyper offense teams as a Screens Setters that can also Spin that can also revenge kill. I think this is a mon that gets typecast, and people think about it all wrong because they try to do some specs/life orb set on it that simply is terrible when the opponent has any Ground-type. Think of it more as a Grimmsnarl that is way less passive and can also spin. Doesn't sound as bad now, does it? Thankfully since it's speed is so ridiculously high you need minimal speed investment, this spread here lets you outspeed +1 base 90's which means you can come in and kill Scarf Ogre at any time, as well as do huge damage (if not KOing) Calyrex, with the rest in special attack and bulk. Regieleki also has a pretty good matchup vs Zacian-C, because you resist Behemoth Blade and Wild Charge, they are forced to usually Close Combat, which you can reflect on; if they have lowered Special Defense or a bit of chip damage you can KO back with Thunder. Most people don't know this thing can spin yet and it does huge damage to Calyrex-SR, meaning you can usually spin with little trouble as well. If you predict the opponent will pivot into a Ground type, the good thing is they are all physical, so you can reflect on the switch and not lose too much momentum. Grimm still has it's advantages for sure so it's not outclassed at all, but I do like how this thing is a lot less passive.


Dialga @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Def
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor / Dragon Pulse
- Fire Blast
- Thunder
- Dragon Pulse / Stealth Rock / Steel Beam?

I actually think Dialga may have a use in this gen for offensive teams. Currently, Ground-types like Zygarde, Groudon, and Lando-T are underrated offensive threats, so Dialga is a nice hedge against them, letting you nail them with a Draco Meteor for good damage. Dialga also doubles as a backup check for Kyogre due to resisting Water and Electric, and can use Rocks if you want to free that moveslot up on another mon. And let"s not forget that Dialga can simply bash things heads in with it's strong attacks and good coverage.


Zacian-Crowned @ Rusted Sword
Ability: Intrepid Sword
EVs: 160 Atk / 96 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Behemoth Blade
- Close Combat
- Assurance
- Wild Charge

This is the set I've been liking the most for Zacian-C. The spread above lets you live Max Thunder from Xerneas, letting Zacian KO back with Behemoth Blade. The rest is dump into attack and speed; I think Jolly is less necessary now with Scarf ogre and Calyrex outspeeding you anyway. Assurance is a cool tech, it doubles in power if the opponent switches in and takes hazard damage, meaning if you have rocks or spikes up, you absolutely melt Necrozma-DM on the switch-in. The rest of the moves are fairly normal. Due to dynamax being legal currently, you pretty much have to run Behemoth Blade, but in a dynamax-less meta, Play Rough would likely be better as the main annoying thing for this set is Zygarde.


Mew @ Focus Sash
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Misty Explosion

Still one of the best HO leads in the game. Shuckle can webs on you though, so Regieleki is actually a good partner to spin, or something else with Defog on it.


Calyrex-Shadow @ Choice Specs
Ability: As One (Spectrier)
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Astral Barrage
- Psyshock
- Trick
- Draining Kiss / Aromatherapy / Nasty Plot / Will-o-wisp, fukn anything

Specs Calyrex is insanely good, it KOs almost everything in the game. Trick lets you cripple Special Defensive Yveltal, meaning theres really nothing to stop the thing once it gets going. The last slot is super flexible, I like Aromatherapy for balanced teams and Kiss for offense, but you can do anything you want.


Ho-Oh @ Choice Band
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird
- Defog
- Earthquake

Band Ho-Oh is insanely underrated right now, but maybe not due to why you may think so. Obviously, it does a shitton of damage to almost everything, but it also pairs excellently with SDef Yveltal. This is because you can use it to switch in on Specs Calyrex, and if they try to catch your Yveltal with Trick, you just screw him over back by giving him your Band. Even if they attack, you can tank it and come back in later due to Regenerator. You are also immune to Will-o-wisp, should they try to wisp your Yveltal. Sdef Yveltal is also a pretty good defogger, meaning they form a good core together.


Eternatus @ Black Sludge / Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 52 Def / 188 SpD / 16 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dynamax Cannon
- Flamethrower
- Toxic / Toxic Spikes
- Recover

Eternatus is still amazingly good for balanced teams, as it simply covers so many mons in one slot. The set is EVd to outspeed base 100's, putting the rest into bulk. The def is so that, if you happen to make the mistake of switching into Band Ho-Oh's Brave Bird, you can recover it off without dying to repeated Brave Birds, with the rest dumped into Special Defense to tank Kyogre better. Toxic is better if this is one of your options for Ho-Oh, but Tspikes is also insanely good depending on your team structure.


Lugia @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Whirlwind
- Thunder Wave
- Roost

Boots Lugia is very underrated atm, and it is one of the best blanket checks to so many things in the game. You check Zacian and Xerneas, not to mention you are the best check by far to Landorus and Zygarde. It may seem extremely passive, but the thing is in this current meta, where everything is very offensive, a mon that doesn't die and spreads paralysis and checks things is very good. You will have a very hard time checking ground types without this thing, not to mention many other offensive mons.


Yveltal @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- Defog / Foul Play / U-Turn / Toxic?
- Roost

The best and only check to Calyrex-SS. Required for any team that is not offense/HO.

Here are some teams you may or may not like, feel free to use them:
Fun MewRegieleki HO team:

Balance Band Ho-oh:
 
Bulk Yveltal being the only check to Calyrex-GR is simply just false. Even saying its the only counter is false too (for as long as we ignore Dynamax, which we all know is getting resisted again. Idk why it was unbanned in the first place). Hell, I would say Choice Band is overall better than bulky Yveltal. It is far more threatening to other Ubers than just Calyrex, including Kyogre or even Zacian-C, and it can still tank most of its attacks thanks to its natural bulk.
I also find SpD Tyranitar to be an excellent counter to Calyrex-GR, even with Shed Shell over Leftovers. I would even say its the best counter, since it can also check Yveltal, weaken/cripple Kyogre, Thunder Waves and ruins Zacian-C, classic Eternatus, ect. Now imagine if Pursuit was back.

And that’s that the counters, other checks include.
Scarf Kyogre can Stomach some hits and hit back with Rain Boosted Origin Pulse.
Same with many other scarfers and weather boosters. Just like how Zacian was played around before.
Regieleki can smack Calyrex with a surprise CB Assurance.
Pretty much anything with a decently hard hitting Shadow Sneak or Sucker Punch can easily knock it out.
Defensive Ho-oh is pretty bulky on both sides, and still has fire power from Sacred Fire
And there is also Greedent and Umbreon lol

And tbh I haven’t had much trouble with fighting Calyrex-GR either. I still fear good old Zacian-C more often since its only true counter is 100% HP Quagsire, while Calyrex has 2 counters in T-Tar and Yveltal.
 
You would be surprised about CB Regieleki.
It actually can just use Wild Charge and still OHKO Calyrex anyways.
252+ Atk Choice Band Regieleki Transistor Wild Charge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Calyrex-Ghost Rider: 364-429 (106.7 - 125.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Assurance is used to prevent recoil, does double damage with Hazards, and it also hits Lunala/Giratina.
252+ Atk Choice Band Regieleki Assurance (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Giratina-Origin: 360-424 (71.5 - 84.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Also because it has fuck all for coverage.
 
I also find SpD Tyranitar to be an excellent counter to Calyrex-GR, even with Shed Shell over Leftovers. I would even say its the best counter, since it can also check Yveltal, weaken/cripple Kyogre, Thunder Waves and ruins Zacian-C, classic Eternatus, ect. Now imagine if Pursuit was back.

Eh, I'd call SpDef TTar a hard check rather than a full counter - NP Pollen Puff 2HKOs even if you are running Lefties.

+2 252 SpA Calyrex-Shadow Pollen Puff vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 226-266 (55.9 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
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Eh, I'd call SpD TTar a hard check rather than a full counter - NP Pollen Puff 2HKOs even if you are running Lefties.

+2 252 SpA Calyrex-Shadow Pollen Puff vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 226-266 (55.9 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
That is assuming Tyranitar switches in a turn after it NPs.
Otherwise, Calyrex-GR gets KO’d by Foul Play+Sand
0- Atk Tyranitar Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Calyrex-Ghost-Rider: 328-388 (96.1 - 113.7%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO.
And in case your Tyranitar was at too low of health, Tyranitar’s Sand will make it so Sand Rush Excadrill can clean up Calyrex.

The only problem with Tyranitar is that it requires Rest or Leftovers to recover its HP, but Tyranitar is going to find itself tanking special hits from multiple Pokemon like Yveltal and Eternatus, so it can somewhat easily burn those rest turns.

Worst case scenario still lets you set up sand for Excadrill, and let a Ditto transform into a Scarfed Calyrex-GR with +3 (nasty plot+As One boost), with very little normal types around.
 

Yubellia

Banned deucer.
First post so don't be too harsh at me haha!

Been starting to play Ubers more with the new additions of Crown Tundra and I must say that this meta is really different compared to every other iteration of Ubers in past generations. Here are some teams I have been using:


https://pokepast.es/c4f0d1f5b61fc278

Nice balance build using the defensive core of Ttar + Ferro + Ho-Oh to try (key word try) and check everything this tier has to offer in terms of offensive threats. The red bird being my sole true check to Zacian-C is of course an issue as they all tend to run Wild Charge nowadays so got to be careful when playing against that. Ferro checks Kyogre and acts as one of it's only real true swichins rn and also can help deal with Xerneas to an extent while Tyranitar is the Calyrex-S check of the team (although pray you don't go against Leaf Storm variants smh). Zacian-C + Scarf Kyogre form an amazing offensive core and can really just dump on most of the metagame, while DD Zygarde acts as the main win condition of the team and can really clean up late-game when checks like Quagsire and Ho-Oh are weakened or out of the picture.


https://pokepast.es/59c1c51a89b19b1b

Screens were a playstyle I enjoyed using throughout the Isle of Armor meta but really wanted to pick it up again once Dynamax was freed and threats like Xerneas and Calyrex-S entered the metagame. The team pretty much is self-explanatory. Lead Mew, set hazards, Grimm sets screens and then profit. I would say the highlights of this team are def Weakness Policy Necrozma and Calyrex since these two threats are just nuts under Dyanamax and can be super hard to revenge kill even when going against Scarf Ditto.

Some thoughts on the meta:

: I think Dynamax is not as crazy as I initially thought it would be. This may be the case of broken checking broken but having the ability to defensively dynamax threats like Necrozma-DM, Ho-Oh and even stuff like Quagsire and Groudon can be really nice to deal with large threats like Calyrex-S and Zacian-C. Although I still believe the offense pressure it puts on the tier might still be too much when comparing the defensive value it has in counteracting such offensive Dynamax abusers (if that makes sense hopefully).

: This thing is nuts and I am not too sure how comfortable I am with it being in the tier. It's speed, coverage, Special Moxie, and offensive typing is just crazy and is only really stopped by threats like Tyranitar, Scarf Ditto or Scarf Yveltal. Even then, new techs like Sub + Nasty Plot and Leaf Storm has really been making Calyrex-S just impossible to deal with. Add Dynamaxing on top of this and you legit have the best offensive breaker in the tier. Its nice to finally have an offensive check to Zacian-C not named Ditto but I think Calyrex-S adds a whole other problem to the tier imo. Should be looked at for possible suspect.

: No Primal Groudon means this thing just clicks Water moves and profits. Scarf Ogre is amazing right now since it abuses most teams running the standard Necrozma-DM / Quagsire + Ho-Oh + Tyranitar cores and really forces sacking to a whole other level. Fortunately, people do seem to have started prepping for it more with stuff like Blissey, Ferrothorn, and Specially defensive Eternatus, but CM Kyogre can still circumvent these checks especially under Dyanamax so ye add Scarf Ogre to ur team and abuse the benefits haha.

Overall, the tier is a bit messy but can be fixed in due time once Dynamax and Calyrex-S are hopefully properly looked at.
 
Marshadow @ Choice Band/Choice Scarf
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shadow Sneak
- Spectral Thief
- Poltergeist/Rock Tomb
- Close Combat

Pheromosa @ Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Close Combat
- Rapid Spin
- Throat Chop

Urshifu @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Unseen Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Wicked Blow
- Close Combat
- U-turn
- Iron Head

Yveltal
Ability: Dark Aura

Tyranitar @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Foul Play
- Rock Tomb
- Rest
- Fire Punch

Zarude @ Leftovers
Ability: Leaf Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Jungle Healing
- Darkest Lariat
- Power Whip
- U-turn

here is a calyrex-SR check/counter list

Banded adamant Marshadow's shadow sneak OHKO Dynamaxed calyrex-SR at full,if u care about substitute,Scarf ST can bypass substitute

Pheromosa outspeed calyrex-SR,OHKO it with LO throat chop

Scarf Urshifu-SS out speed it and OHKO it with Wicked Blow,its also resist both stab moves

Yveltal is Yveltal

SpDef ttar can easily take a hit and KO back with foul play

SpDef zarude is here,it doesnt care about any of calyrex's move,its also a decent kyogre check

I dont think Calyrex-SR is banworthy,this thing isnt strong as Zacian-C
 
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