np: SS UU Stage 10.2 - Sickommo-ode (Kommo-o Banned)

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Lily

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Hi all, following our most recent survey (which will have detailed results soon) we've decided it's time to suspect test Kommo-o.

Everyone knows what Kommo-o does so I won't give too much reasoning here. The clanger is the jack of all trades, except he's also the master of most of them; it's simultaneously our best Swords Dance user, one of our best Dragon Dance users, our only Clangorous Soul user, a great defensive Pokemon and more all in one deceptively bulky package. In that sense, Kommo-o's best weapon is its versatility; while in a vacuum, Kommo-o's individual sets can be checked quite reliably by various Pokemon, most of its answers will lose to one of its other sets. For example, Swords Dance Earthquake Kommo-o is handily checked by Primarina and Togekiss, but both will fall to Poison Jab; Clangorous Soul sets can be checked by Chansey and Diancie but both are vulnerable to SD EQ, and Diancie can also be blown away by the odd Flash Cannon. In general, Kommo-o's bulk, amazing typing, and three different abilities that provide three different situational immunities give it a whole lot setup opportunities. And let's be real, we've all had our shit kicked in by Sub + Belly Drum at least once on the ladder. Kommo-o is far from invincible of course, and a large part of its threat comes from the fact that you never really know what it's running. It's reasonable to slap a bulky Fairy-type on your team and assume you're safe against most of its sets, but that's the thing; it's most, not all. Kommo-o doesn't need to give up too much to run coverage like Poison Jab or Flash Cannon; its Earthquake and Boomburst targets are largely superfluous and can be covered by teammates, and a lot of Boomburst's targets in particular are OHKOed by Clanging Scales anyway.

Kommo-o is not impossible to handle, with Pokemon like Sylveon, AV Azumarill and Diancie generally doing a decent enough job at handling it for long enough, but most of these Pokemon are niche at best or have to run subpar sets just for Kommo-o. Its defensive sets and offensive Stealth Rock sets are largely agreed to be healthy additions to the tier, but Kommo-o's setup sets make it by far the most controversial Pokemon in the tier right now, with just about 80% of the survey responders supporting either a suspect test or a quickban. So here we are!

The voting requirements are a minimum GXE of 80 with at least 50 games played. In addition, you may play 1 less game for every 0.2 GXE you have above 80 GXE, down to a minimum of 30 games at a GXE of 84. As always, needing more than 50 games to reach 80 GXE is fine.

GXEminimum games
8050
80.249
80.448
80.647
80.846
8145
81.244
81.443
81.642
81.841
8240
82.239
82.438
82.637
82.836
8335
83.234
83.433
83.632
83.831
8430


Other than that, the test will operate as always. There will be no suspect ladder. Instead, the standard UU ladder will remain open. Those who wish to participate in this suspect test will instead use a fresh, suspect-specific alt. All games must be played on the Pokemon Showdown! UU ladder on a fresh alt with the following format: "UU10K (Nick)." For example, I might register the alt UU10K Lily to ladder with. You must meet the listed format in order to qualify.

Participants will have until Wednesday, November 17th at 7:00 PM GMT -5 to meet voting requirements and post in the Alt Identification Thread. PLEASE DO NOT POST YOUR CONFIRMED SUSPECT RESULTS HERE - there is a dedicated thread for identifying your suspect results. Happy laddering!

 
I would have much rather preferred either a council vote or a double suspect for both Kommo-o and Thundy-T since IMO they're both equally unhealthy for the tier rn but I'm glad at least Kommo-o is getting looked at. Hopefully I can actually get reqs this time!
 
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Hello, My name is mark6870, my PS name is Roboboi3002, and amidst all this talk about Kommo-o, I decided that it would be beneficial to give my humble opinion on the matter

That being said, this is my case for Metagross. ( i did post this once before, but in the wrong thread. oops)
Firstly, I should mention that the purpose of my post is to bring awareness to the potential amazingness that Metagross can be. I am only low-mid ish 1300s (now high 1200s because of hax and me being bad) on ladder with a GXE of about 60%, so there might be some discrepancies. Also, i am not trying to act as if i have discovered some amazing new pokemon that is going to tear up the new ladder, as Metagross is B- on the VR (something i completely agree with by the way) and my post is here only to bring some more awareness since i rarely, if ever, see it.

With that out of the way, let's get to the meat(agross) of the discussion.

:ss/metagross:
Metagross @ Choice Band
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Bullet Punch
- Earthquake
- Zen Headbutt/Thunder Punch

This is its niche. A fantastic wallbreaker from my experience. It could also make do with an offensive Stealth Rock set, however, there is another Steel/Psychic that is faster, and has Stealth Rocks, Wish, U-turn, and an infuriating 60% flinch rate on its Iron Head, that outclasses Metagross in that regard. However, Jirachi cannot even come close to the power that Metagross' banded set entails.

The Good:
Meteor Mash does solid amounts of damage, 2hkoing almost everything in the tier that does not resist it. It even comes with the added benefit of a small chance to raise Attack, which is fantastic.

Bullet Punch is necessary on this set simply because this tier has many faster threats that can outpace it. Bullet Punch is great for picking these off. For example, It gets the OHKO on Lycanroc-Dusk that could easily kill it with Crunch (after some chip), as well as being able to pick off Roost-less Hydreigon after a more significant amount of chip damage.

Earthquake is good coverage, KOing G-Slowbro and Tentacruel, having a chance to KO max hp Aegislash, and 2hkoing Specially Defensive Kanto-Slowking and Jirachi, as well as doing significant chip-damage to the likes of Seismitoad.

Zen Headbutt KOs Keldeo (not sure why a keldeo would switch in but it does KO keldeo), has a solid chance to KO Amoonguss, and 2hkoes Rotoms-Heat and Wash, which are solid switchins to Metagross otherwise. Zen Headbutt also eases prediction on mons such as Tentacruel, since it will crumble to an EQ as well as a Zen Headbutt.

Thunder Punch could be replaced to hit Moltres (watch out for burns), Galar-Moltres, physically defensive slowking, and Gyarados, whilst still having supereffective damage on Keldeo. Thunder Punch also hits Celesteela, which otherwise hard walls Keldeo. It mainly comes down to team composition.

Metagross also provides some defensive utility. Being a Steel Type, it is a good soft check to many pokemon such as Nihilego and Tapu Bulu (be aware of CC, though) in a pinch. It has absolutely zero recovery, be instant or passive, however, so this utility is extremely limited. Again, Jirachi does the defensive role so much better.

Clear Body is a nice ability to have in this tier, mainly for Salamence.

The Bad:
Finally, the downsides. If metagross was really such an amazing fantastic mon, it would be talked about much more than it is, and, sadly, there are someglaring downsides.

Its Speed: Metagross has base 70 speed. This is servicable as it is faster than most walls. However, there are lots (lots) of darks, fires, ghosts, and grounds that can outspeed and put an end to Metagross' career. It can run jolly to outspeed modest aegislash and adamant mamoswine,though.

The Typing: Steel/PSychic is a really, REALLY good defensive typing with lots of good resistances. However, its 4 weaknesses are highly exploitable and are found in faster pokemon such as Krookodile, Zarude, Chandelure, Rotom-Heat, Hydregion, Excadrill, Seismitoad, Volcanionm Nidoking, Obstagoon, Aegislash and Mamoswine (if you're adamant), as well as lots more that don't have supereffective STAB but run supereffective coverage.

"Chip Damage is Everywhere Oh God": Is what you will be saying when you run banded metagross. Because of its lack of speed and its absence of any recovery it is very prone to getting worn down. Metagross does have defensive utility, but it is not invincible.

"Oh Right, I'm Banded.": Metagross is a choiced attacker, making it very prediction reliant. lots of mons that couldn't take its other moves can easily take its Meteor Mashes. For example, Slowking can sit on any metagross any day, so long as that metagross is locked into Meteor Mash/Bullet Punch. Same goes for Jirachi. And Celesteela. And Tentacruel. And the list goes on. A different item could be used to neuter this, for example Expert Belt/Leftovers/Life Orb, but you lose power for the formers and take even more chip damage from the latter.

Checks and Counters:

Dark-type Revenge Killers:
Hydreigon, Krookodile, Zarude. As well as the other mons mentioned before that arent dark type, Metagross is prone to being revenge-killed, however none of these pokemon would want to switch in. Krookodile has the added benefit of STAB Earthquake to really rain on Metagross' parade. Thank God pursuit is no longer in the game.

Celesteela: This pokemon is just... so annoying to deal with. Especially with metagross. It's not an unbalanced or broken mon, its just.. annoying. Thunder Punch deals a lot of damage to it, however.

Seismitoad: Another annoying pokemon UU has the displeasure of hosting, Seismitoad is a fantastic stopper to Metagross, being at most 3hkoed by its Earthquake. It doesn't like Zen Headbutt, though.

So that's about it. I really like Metagross, its a fun to use mon, not without flaws but its an extremely fun nuke, and as with any viable mon its weaknesses can be neutralized by its teammates.

Metagross/Nidoking Balance (P.S. thank you estarossa for some tips on the team) Nidogross (pokepast.es)


Some notable calcs:
252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Amoonguss: 231-273 (53.4 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 200+ Def Kommo-o: 160-189 (45.1 - 53.3%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 248 HP / 0+ Def Mandibuzz: 217-256 (51.3 - 60.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 298-352 (68.6 - 81.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rotom-Heat: 210-247 (69.3 - 81.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 200+ Def Kommo-o: 284-336 (80.2 - 94.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 112 Def Tentacruel: 540-636 (148.3 - 174.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
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Komono-O is a pesudo legendary with so many set up moves/ coverage options. It could act as a physical special and mixed attacker. It can be used as a defensive wall and a stealth rock setter. And unlike other pokemon it could do them all well and the surprise factor when you expect one set and another turns up is honestly what i think pushes it over the edge. Hope it leaves UU!
 

Magnum

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Monky's questions went under the radar with the suspect announcement, so i'll answer them for some fun! Expect a much more in-depth, detailed post about my opinion on Kommo-o over the next few days!

1. How are you liking the tier right now?

Latias being around was much more painful than expected, particularly in the builder. Though it was incredibly fun to use and genuinely felt like a way to get free wins on ladder, preparing for it is admittedly harder than i'd initially thought and I'm pretty glad it's banned.

As for the current metagame, I seem to share a lot of views with others regarding problematic Pokemon in the tier - namely Thundurus-T, Moltres-G and our current threat on the chopping block, Kommo-o. Right now, I think that slowly testing them, seeing how the tests turn out and how the metagame feels to see if anything still seems overbearing, then testing whatever that may be is probably the best course of action. As a whole, the current metagame feels noticeably healthier than when Latias was in the tier and much more fun to play and build with.

Here's some Pokemon that I'm having a lot of fun with currently!



You know em, you love em, you probably hate 'em by now because of the amount of Clangorous Soul sets running around on ladder and seen in tournament matches currently but Clanger is pretty god damn legit. Saying its versatility is great is genuinely an understatement. Kommo-o's greatest asset is probably its ability to fulfil a large variety of roles depending on a team's needs. I won't go super into why I like Kommo-o so much and my opinions on it, but put simply it is extremely good at what it does - which is basically everything.



Wow, big surprise! The two S tiers are Pokemon that I've liked using! Despite my genuine love for all things Krookodile, Excadrill's insane utility, power and splashability make it very hard to pass up. While I was first a little bit sceptical of it, mainly because of my Krookodile bias, Excadrill has been extremely fun to use and is probably the best Pokemon in the tier, yet not overbearing to the point of a suspect. The Swords Dance sets turn Excadrill into one of the most frightening physical sweepers possible, capable of 2HKOing even the likes of Rocky Helmet Tangrowth and being able to still boost it's speed to great heights with Rapid Spin. The Utility sets, on the other hand, offer excellent role compression between Stealth Rock + Rapid Spin as well as many key resistances and two immunities. Most notably, it's a hazard setter that's able to screw other Hatterene, which is an incredible thing to have. Genuinely a super duper solid mon and I don't know what you're doing if you haven't tried it once.



After months of constant bullying, Tapu Bulu has risen to the high end of the rankings to reclaim its previous position as a top-tier wallbreaker. Its ability to tear through common defensive cores like Slowking + Skarmory and Primarina + Tangrowth is extremely valuable, being able to free up something like the aforementioned Excadrill or Kommo-o to clean up. Grassy Terrain is also once again considered a good thing for you instead of the opponent, as shown by this...terrifying screenshot

1636551668670.png


Yes this is a real screenshot, yes that is a god damn +3 omniboosted Kommo-o. Thank you Tapu Bulu



I think Moltres is really neat! Solid check to the likes of Excadrill, Tangrowth, Tapu Bulu, Amoonguss, Mienshao and Conkeldurr, though it should be careful of Knock Off or Stone Edge. Moltres is probably one of my favourite Pokémon to use because of how strong it can really be, and fits pretty damn well on Bulky Offense by being good partners with Swampert, Tapu Bulu and Hydreigon



Primarina is pretty and makes all the teams it’s on 20 times better aesthetically, but that’s not the point. Though Primarina is (arguably) outclassed by Azumarill now, Primarina’s defensive qualities still stand out to me and is still a really solid glue. I’ve even seen some Sub3a sets running around and Specs Moonblast still has no switch-ins, so maybe we’ll see some more sets gain popularity in the near future



Not only is this the superior Water/Ground in the tier now, it’s probably my favourite drop of the October shifts just because of how much I like Swampert as a Pokémon. Looking at it from a competitive standpoint however, Swampert’s ability to grab momentum with Flip Turn, set up rocks and provide a lot of handy resistances with its superb defensive typing makes it another excellent choice for BO. Though the lack of reliable recovery makes it a bit awkward, if you pair this thing with Tapu Bulu it genuinely never dies



Everyone knows by now how Nasty Plot Thundy works: you set up, you pray Focus Blast lands on their Ground or Chansey, and you win. However, I’m a super big fan of the pivot sets that have been running around lately. Knock + Momentum will always be an incredible combination, and on a Pokémon with so much natural power like Thundurus you’re able to function as a really strong pivot. Though not as fast as something like Thundy-I or Azelf, still a really fun Pokémon to use and is able to lure in those Ground-types for teammates to take advantage og

4. What trends/Pokemon do you think will continue to see higher/lower usage?

This question probably doesn’t need answering now that we’ve seen what’s happened, but one Pokémon that I hope continues to pick up is Heracross. While it may not be as strong as Conkeldurr on its own, after a Swords Dance it actually doesn’t have a comfortable switch-in and it’s speed tier has proven to be much more valuable to me. The lack of Drain Punch/Mach Punch is annoying, but I’d say Heracross genuinely deserves a chance.

5. Any new sets or niche mons you've been enjoying that you want to share?

Sure do!

1636555480304.png

Azumarill @ Assault Vest
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Play Rough
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch

AV Azu has a pretty customisable EV spread, you generally just need enough speed for Conk. I prefer Adamant for the additional power, but Jolly lets you invest in more bulk. AV Azu is a pretty fun special sponge, checking Primarina, Hydreigon and Kommo-o until you run into one of the sets with Poison Jab.

1636556077482.png


Tangrowth @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Giga Drain
- Knock Off
- Sludge Bomb
- Synthesis

While initially only being a stall/fat option, Synthesis Tangrowth has done me quite well, as it provides Tangrowth not only extremely handy reliable recovery, but it gives it the ability to properly check Conkeldurr and +2 Excadrill. Definitely worth yrying

1636556131467.png


Keldeo-Resolute @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive
- Swords Dance
- Hydro Pump
- Close Combat
- Megahorn

Yep, Slowking rejoined the tier which means that SD Keldeo jokes are now back on the table! This is specifically for fun and not viable in the slightest, as you’re still walled by Primarina and Azumarill, but by god it’s funny. Hydro Pump is still on here as a means of disposing Skarmory, whole CC + Megahorn probably gives you the best coverage you can get.

Here’s a bad team with it, the team has some very serious problems but it’s fun to good aroundhttps://pokepast.es/74ac554866f20bd1

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

That’s all from me for now, expect a big post on Kommo-o soon and have a great rest of your day!
 
:ss/Kommo-o:

I can see why people want Kommo gone - it is a bit annoying. But I don't think it is repressive at all. None of the sets really strike me as problematic - the closest one is the clanger set but even then there's stuff that is just as offensively potent like NP Thundurus-T (which actually has fewer reliable checks/counters).

The main problem people seem to have with Kommo is that it has so many possibilities that you are unsure what to expect, and thus this unpredictability can you leave you in a terrible position when you expect a clangsoul set and then the Sub goes up for a Belly Drum, or you expect an defensive rocks lead and then you see a Swords Dance come out. My suggestion with Kommo is the same as my suggestion on life - always expect the worst and then you'll be fully prepared for anything. What I mean by this is, if one particular set is going to steamroll you (like a BD set), then assume that's what it is so that doesn't happen just in case. Once it reveals its set (one move will usually reveal what kind of Kommo it is) it's not bad at all to handle.

:Kommo-o:

It actually seems like Kommo is more broken on paper because of this versatility, but in practice against it you really can manage it just fine usually.
I do agree that, out of all the Pokemon currently in the tier, Kommo would be considered more "problematic" than most of them. But I don't consider it "broken" because any of its sets are capable of being checked effectively. I guess you can make an argument that is unhealthy, but at the end of the day this probably will just come down to your personal view of the situation since there is lots of room for interpretation on what makes something "unhealthy". For me, if you can deal with it, then you deal with it and proceed accordingly. I still enjoy the tier very much with Kommo here, and I don't think I would enjoy it any more or any less with it gone - it's all the same to me and I'll be voting Do Not Ban.

(didn't make that detailed of a post because it is probably going to get banned anyways, I predict by an over 75% margin)
 

pokemonisfun

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I shall vote ban on Kommo-o.

Regarding what’s already been said on Kommo-o:

HugeNoobLmao talked about the versatility factor here, simple but true enough: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/np-ss-uu-stage-10-2-sickommo-ode.3693129/post-9027681

Magnum I think mainly just reiterated the versatility factor and emphasized the Clangourous Soul set, which truly gets good tour usage but I believe Swords Dance is easier to build with. Not sure which set is the best.

lastly we have BFM:



:ss/Kommo-o:

I can see why people want Kommo gone - it is a bit annoying. But I don't think it is repressive at all. None of the sets really strike me as problematic - the closest one is the clanger set but even then there's stuff that is just as offensively potent like NP Thundurus-T (which actually has fewer reliable checks/counters).

The main problem people seem to have with Kommo is that it has so many possibilities that you are unsure what to expect, and thus this unpredictability can you leave you in a terrible position when you expect a clangsoul set and then the Sub goes up for a Belly Drum, or you expect an defensive rocks lead and then you see a Swords Dance come out. My suggestion with Kommo is the same as my suggestion on life - always expect the worst and then you'll be fully prepared for anything. What I mean by this is, if one particular set is going to steamroll you (like a BD set), then assume that's what it is so that doesn't happen just in case. Once it reveals its set (one move will usually reveal what kind of Kommo it is) it's not bad at all to handle.

:Kommo-o:

It actually seems like Kommo is more broken on paper because of this versatility, but in practice against it you really can manage it just fine usually.
I do agree that, out of all the Pokemon currently in the tier, Kommo would be considered more "problematic" than most of them. But I don't consider it "broken" because any of its sets are capable of being checked effectively. I guess you can make an argument that is unhealthy, but at the end of the day this probably will just come down to your personal view of the situation since there is lots of room for interpretation on what makes something "unhealthy". For me, if you can deal with it, then you deal with it and proceed accordingly. I still enjoy the tier very much with Kommo here, and I don't think I would enjoy it any more or any less with it gone - it's all the same to me and I'll be voting Do Not Ban.

(didn't make that detailed of a post because it is probably going to get banned anyways, I predict by an over 75% margin)
So if I had to distill it, he’s saying that he always assumes the Kommo-o set he sees is the one he’s weak to, and he can get by, Kommo o is not exceptionally hard to beat.

Which is an interesting way to try and neutralize the logics derived from the largely uncontested observation that Kommo-o is extremely versatile. Even if it’s versatile, just prepare for the worst.

I confess I find myself entirely unconvinced with this line of reasoning in practice.

For example in this requirements game, I was using a Swords Dance Poison Jab Kommo-o.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1454172907-x2fih7ia2pdxma21drfn85b788emjgupw

I ask BFM or anyone else: what should Sten Brian do to incorporate BFM’s logic on turn 7? What exactly does assuming the worst mean?

The obvious and in my view correct answer is that you can’t apply the logic, if you assume the worst then Kommo-o is automatically getting a KO because Kommo-o can KO anything with the right set.

For me, this settles the only dissent.

The question is then: what positive reason is there to ban Kommo-o?

It 1) strains building overly so and 2) it makes Hyper Offense too powerful. Those are my reasons and should you be curious for evidence of those reasons, feel free to tag me.

Otherwise, I feel as if I’ve done my due diligence on this test even if the discussion on Smogon forums have been sparse to say the least.

Good luck to those grinding in the last 47 minutes or so.
 
I ask BFM or anyone else: what should Sten Brian do to incorporate BFM’s logic on turn 7? What exactly does assuming the worst mean?
It's not so much what should have been on Turn 7 - moreso how the game should be approached from the beginning. Just looking at your Kommo team, and looking at Sten's team, it's clear an SD Kommo is going to be a huge problem, whereas a clangsoul set not-so-much with AV Glowbro (though he did switch in AV Glowbro into Azu which was not the best play). So, since an SD Kommo is going to be a problem, you should just make sure you don't ever let it get into a position where it will set up an SD, or else you will lose. By KOing the Mole on Turn 6 and leaving Zarude in, this was a perfect opportunity for Kommo, and a big mistake that set up Turn 7's success. That is, in essence, what I mean by assuming the worst. If you assume it's an SD set and it ends up clanging, but your team has an answer to that sort of in AV Glowbro, then you are ok. But you are not OK if you let it SD.

For the record, I think everyone is correct with their observations on Kommo, I just don't think it meets the certain threshold for me as "too much". Picture it like this:

1637193287478.png


I simply believe that banning something for being "too powerful" should have a very high threshold, and I don't think Kommo meets that for me. I'm more inclined to be on the side of banning things for non-competitive reasons, but for everything else I just like to play the cards that are dealt and deal with whatever we have. Doesn't mean nothing is ever too powerful, I just don't believe Kommo meets that and I think we have the tools to deal with it.
 
So, since an SD Kommo is going to be a problem, you should just make sure you don't ever let it get into a position where it will set up an SD, or else you will lose. By KOing the Mole on Turn 6 and leaving Zarude in, this was a perfect opportunity for Kommo, and a big mistake that set up Turn 7's success. That is, in essence, what I mean by assuming the worst. If you assume it's an SD set and it ends up clanging, but your team has an answer to that sort of in AV Glowbro, then you are ok. But you are not OK if you let it SD.
The problem with this is if you apply this to games in general, the conclusion you reach is "never ever give any Kommo-o a setup opportunity in case it's the set I'm weak to". The fact Kommo-o is bulky enough to setup on most of the tier means denying it setup is hard enough, but I ask, how does one prevent SD Kommo specifically from setting up in a situation where you are happy to concede setup to any other set. Or build with answers to every Kommo set, which is, as the voters have determined, utterly infeasible.

That's the issue with Kommo: "Assuming the worst" almost always means assuming you're 6-0ed by Kommo from preview.
 
The problem with this is if you apply this to games in general, the conclusion you reach is "never ever give any Kommo-o a setup opportunity in case it's the set I'm weak to". The fact Kommo-o is bulky enough to setup on most of the tier means denying it setup is hard enough, but I ask, how does one prevent SD Kommo specifically from setting up in a situation where you are happy to concede setup to any other set. Or build with answers to every Kommo set, which is, as the voters have determined, utterly infeasible.

That's the issue with Kommo: "Assuming the worst" almost always means assuming you're 6-0ed by Kommo from preview.
My response was meant to be specific to that game, not as something generally speaking. That being said, Kommo is banned now anyways.

I did want to point out one thing that was a bit exaggerated though, which is that Kommo is not actually bulky enough to set up on most of the tier. Usually you only had one or two things on your team (if well built) that it could safely set up on, and Zarude was one of the most common ones. Sweepers like Gyarados, Salamence, and Necrozma are also fairly bulky and can take advantage of various set up opportunities - it’s just Kommo was more difficult than those because it had more options. So, while it may seem like Kommo sets up on most of the tier, it actually sets up just the same as some of these other sweepers. The main issue was what to expect after it does so. Also, assuming those other sweepers are also oppressive, banning Kommo alleviates the strain of trying to plan for all of them at once by removing one from the equation. While I voted no ban and stand by the decision to do so, I understand all the reasons for banning and don’t have any issues with it.
 
UU Snake Usage Stats and Trends
I remember Moute doing a type of post like this last snake so I figured I'd do the same this year. I think it would be good idea to track the development of the tier as the tournament goes on, noting large increases in usage and certain trends towards building. I'll likely be doing this every 2-3 weeks rather than 1 week to almost see the different "phases" of the tier and what trends tournament players are following.

Week 1 Stats

Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Skarmory           |    8 |  33.33% |  50.00% |
| 2    | Mienshao           |    7 |  29.17% |  71.43% |
| 2    | Thundurus-Therian  |    7 |  29.17% |  71.43% |
| 4    | Aegislash          |    6 |  25.00% |  83.33% |
| 4    | Amoonguss          |    6 |  25.00% |  50.00% |
| 4    | Kommo-o            |    6 |  25.00% |  50.00% |
| 4    | Excadrill          |    6 |  25.00% |  33.33% |
| 8    | Swampert           |    5 |  20.83% |  80.00% |
| 8    | Hydreigon          |    5 |  20.83% |  40.00% |
| 10   | Primarina          |    4 |  16.67% | 100.00% |
| 10   | Zarude-Dada        |    4 |  16.67% |  75.00% |
| 10   | Starmie            |    4 |  16.67% |  75.00% |
| 10   | Diancie            |    4 |  16.67% |  75.00% |
| 10   | Zarude             |    4 |  16.67% |  50.00% |
| 10   | Slowking           |    4 |  16.67% |  50.00% |
| 10   | Chansey            |    4 |  16.67% |  25.00% |
| 17   | Conkeldurr         |    3 |  12.50% |  66.67% |
| 17   | Nihilego           |    3 |  12.50% |  66.67% |
| 17   | Celesteela         |    3 |  12.50% |  33.33% |
| 17   | Ditto              |    3 |  12.50% |  33.33% |
| 17   | Krookodile         |    3 |  12.50% |  33.33% |
| 17   | Moltres-Galar      |    3 |  12.50% |   0.00% |
| 23   | Azelf              |    2 |   8.33% | 100.00% |
| 23   | Mandibuzz          |    2 |   8.33% | 100.00% |
| 23   | Mamoswine          |    2 |   8.33% |  50.00% |
| 23   | Nidoking           |    2 |   8.33% |  50.00% |
| 23   | Salamence          |    2 |   8.33% |  50.00% |
| 23   | Roserade           |    2 |   8.33% |  50.00% |
| 23   | Tapu Bulu          |    2 |   8.33% |  50.00% |
| 23   | Zygarde-10%        |    2 |   8.33% |   0.00% |
| 23   | Togekiss           |    2 |   8.33% |   0.00% |
| 23   | Reuniclus          |    2 |   8.33% |   0.00% |
| 23   | Jirachi            |    2 |   8.33% |   0.00% |
| 34   | Volcanion          |    1 |   4.17% | 100.00% |
| 34   | Regieleki          |    1 |   4.17% | 100.00% |
| 34   | Gigalith           |    1 |   4.17% | 100.00% |
| 34   | Nidoqueen          |    1 |   4.17% | 100.00% |
| 34   | Tornadus           |    1 |   4.17% | 100.00% |
| 34   | Registeel          |    1 |   4.17% |   0.00% |
| 34   | Umbreon            |    1 |   4.17% |   0.00% |
| 34   | Weezing-Galar      |    1 |   4.17% |   0.00% |
| 34   | Quagsire           |    1 |   4.17% |   0.00% |
| 34   | Moltres            |    1 |   4.17% |   0.00% |
| 34   | Azumarill          |    1 |   4.17% |   0.00% |
| 34   | Tangrowth          |    1 |   4.17% |   0.00% |
| 34   | Glaceon            |    1 |   4.17% |   0.00% |
| 34   | Haxorus            |    1 |   4.17% |   0.00% |
| 34   | Lycanroc-Dusk      |    1 |   4.17% |   0.00% |
| 34   | Tentacruel         |    1 |   4.17% |   0.00% |
| 34   | Scrafty            |    1 |   4.17% |   0.00% |
| 34   | Ribombee           |    1 |   4.17% |   0.00% |
| 34   | Gyarados           |    1 |   4.17% |   0.00% |
| 34   | Gastrodon          |    1 |   4.17% |   0.00% |
Week 2 Stats

Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Thundurus-Therian  |    8 |  33.33% |  37.50% |
| 2    | Excadrill          |    7 |  29.17% |  14.29% |
| 3    | Primarina          |    6 |  25.00% |  83.33% |
| 3    | Skarmory           |    6 |  25.00% |  83.33% |
| 3    | Zarude             |    6 |  25.00% |  66.67% |
| 3    | Mienshao           |    6 |  25.00% |  16.67% |
| 7    | Aegislash          |    5 |  20.83% |  40.00% |
| 7    | Nihilego           |    5 |  20.83% |  40.00% |
| 7    | Swampert           |    5 |  20.83% |  40.00% |
| 7    | Zarude-Dada        |    5 |  20.83% |  20.00% |
| 11   | Amoonguss          |    4 |  16.67% |  75.00% |
| 11   | Kommo-o            |    4 |  16.67% |  75.00% |
| 11   | Conkeldurr         |    4 |  16.67% |  50.00% |
| 11   | Hydreigon          |    4 |  16.67% |   0.00% |
| 15   | Tentacruel         |    3 |  12.50% |  66.67% |
| 15   | Moltres            |    3 |  12.50% |  33.33% |
| 15   | Slowking           |    3 |  12.50% |  33.33% |
| 15   | Salamence          |    3 |  12.50% |  33.33% |
| 15   | Jirachi            |    3 |  12.50% |  33.33% |
| 15   | Tapu Bulu          |    3 |  12.50% |   0.00% |
| 21   | Chansey            |    2 |   8.33% | 100.00% |
| 21   | Mamoswine          |    2 |   8.33% | 100.00% |
| 21   | Mesprit            |    2 |   8.33% | 100.00% |
| 21   | Marowak-Alola      |    2 |   8.33% | 100.00% |
| 21   | Porygon2           |    2 |   8.33% | 100.00% |
| 21   | Cresselia          |    2 |   8.33% | 100.00% |
| 21   | Gyarados           |    2 |   8.33% | 100.00% |
| 21   | Zygarde-10%        |    2 |   8.33% |  50.00% |
| 21   | Hatterene          |    2 |   8.33% |  50.00% |
| 21   | Togekiss           |    2 |   8.33% |  50.00% |
| 21   | Weezing-Galar      |    2 |   8.33% |  50.00% |
| 21   | Rotom-Heat         |    2 |   8.33% |   0.00% |
| 21   | Azelf              |    2 |   8.33% |   0.00% |
| 21   | Slowbro-Galar      |    2 |   8.33% |   0.00% |
| 35   | Celesteela         |    1 |   4.17% | 100.00% |
| 35   | Diggersby          |    1 |   4.17% | 100.00% |
| 35   | Tornadus           |    1 |   4.17% | 100.00% |
| 35   | Dhelmise           |    1 |   4.17% | 100.00% |
| 35   | Torkoal            |    1 |   4.17% | 100.00% |
| 35   | Darmanitan         |    1 |   4.17% | 100.00% |
| 35   | Venusaur           |    1 |   4.17% | 100.00% |
| 35   | Reuniclus          |    1 |   4.17% | 100.00% |
| 35   | Umbreon            |    1 |   4.17% | 100.00% |
| 35   | Quagsire           |    1 |   4.17% | 100.00% |
| 35   | Magneton           |    1 |   4.17% | 100.00% |
| 35   | Gigalith           |    1 |   4.17% | 100.00% |
| 35   | Azumarill          |    1 |   4.17% | 100.00% |
| 35   | Krookodile         |    1 |   4.17% | 100.00% |
| 35   | Milotic            |    1 |   4.17% |   0.00% |
| 35   | Chandelure         |    1 |   4.17% |   0.00% |
| 35   | Sylveon            |    1 |   4.17% |   0.00% |
| 35   | Tangrowth          |    1 |   4.17% |   0.00% |
| 35   | Keldeo             |    1 |   4.17% |   0.00% |
| 35   | Noivern            |    1 |   4.17% |   0.00% |
| 35   | Diancie            |    1 |   4.17% |   0.00% |
| 35   | Registeel          |    1 |   4.17% |   0.00% |
| 35   | Roserade           |    1 |   4.17% |   0.00% |
Pivot Central

Lately there has been a large increase in very heavy VoltTurn offense teams in the tour, especially in Week 2, often sporting the above mons. As someone who prepared a team like this myself, I can confidently say this is a very strong playstyle right now. Thundurus and Mienshao are some of the biggest threats in the tier, and these types of teams work very well utilizing these mons, often having the aforementioned two alongside a zarude, steel-type, water-type, and a filler option usually as the last slot. Speaking of Zarude, it has been the #1 used mon BOTH weeks, combining the stats from both regular and dada. It's a very strong check to top threats like Aegislash, Excadrill, and Thundurus, and pairs well with other pivots, contributing to their shared usage. Its also quite bulky to that can take a hit if needed. Boots is phenomenal on offense and balance builds, and scarf can work if needed. Swampert has also shined a lot lately, just being a great rocker in general. Flip turn has really been a blessing for it, allowing to fit on these offensive builds. It'll be interesting to see on whether these playstyles will continue to see high use or will a new playstyle overtake it.
Don't Sleep on Skarmory (and Nihilego?!?)

One of my favorite defensive Pokemon to use, Skarmory is certainly an underrated threat, though it will likely become more realized by noticing its usage this tour. Tied for #1 used Week 1 with Zarude and being #3 in terms of usage for week 2, Skarmory's insanely valuable traits in the metagame have definitely been shown off. Being a catch-all physical wall to threats like excadrill, choice scarf mienshao, zarude, gyarados, and more is very valuable in this metagame. Spikes are also key for enabling powerful wallbreakers like Primarina and thundurus to break through their defensive checks. Skarm will always just be one of the top mons of the metagame and I do not see it slowing down. Meanwhile, Nihilego has also been coming up as a sleeper pick, getting 5 uses in Week 2 off of 3 uses in the previous week. Pairing well with Skarmory, nihilego is one of the best rockers in the tier still, providing to be an insanely valuable check to the likes of thundurus and the moltres forms. Knock off is busted as always, and it has very high value knocks against threats like excadrill, slowking, and aegislash. With kommo-o's departure, we can see sludge bomb be used over sludge wave now, making it even more of a threat with the 30% poison chance it has. Although it took a bit of a decline with excadrill dropping, Nihilego has adapted well and will be a staple again in no time.
No more Hyper Offense?

In the weeks of SCL when drops first happened, hyper offense featuring suicide lead excadrill was everywhere, using the plethora of dangerous threats to overwhelm the tier's defensive walls. However, during this tour this playstyle is nowhere to be seen. It seems the tier has adapted to these dangerous threats by adopting many anti-cheese pokemon like skarmory, chansey, diancie, tapu bulu, AV azumarill, zarude, scarf mienshao, and pivot thundurus onto many teams, really weakening the consistency of this playstyle. The kommo-o ban has also hindered this archetype a lot by losing its most consistent sweeper. However, with us being in the early weeks of the tour we could very well see a return of this very scary playstyle that everyone hates.
:keldeo: :dhelmise: New Innovations :glaceon: :marowak-alola:
To end off, we've seen some pretty heat and interesting Pokemon being utilized on team during this tour. Sub CM Keldeo is a dangerous threat as of now, often taking advantage of the decline of azumarill and most slowking not running psyshock to setup and sweep. My own manager Lily owned me a lot with this in test games, as it could easily take advantage of so many things like excadrill and slowking with its high speed tier and Calm Mind. This pokemon has been done very wrongly lately, it still has a very valuable speed tier for hydreigon, zarude, and thundurus while also taking on the skarm + chansey core. Dhelmise was also brought this week by hs (4-0 in SCL and 2-0 in UUSD) as a method of entry hazard control and complete counter to excadrill. In my tests with other players who brought it as well, dhelmise also acts as a cool check to thundurus with reliable recovery. It's not crazy or anything but it's a nice pick that can certainly work on the right team. Speaking of crazy though, specs glaceon is very nutty, being brought in week 1 by Lily. With hazard control and pivot support being better than ever, its not hard to get glaceon in to spam its powerful ice beams and freeze drys. They really do hit like a truck, fun Pokemon to use and can certainly take you by surprise if you underestimate it. Lastly, we've seen a growth in trick room usage lately, being brought twice this week and winning both times. There’s not much to say except flare blitz go boom, certainly a scary playstyle that can take even the most experienced players by surprise if not prepared for it.
 
Last edited:

pokemonisfun

Free chess/UU tutoring for UU players Neigh. Perf.
is a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributor
In this post, I suggest immediately undergoing a public suspect test for Thundurus-Therian for multiple reasons. The two most important reasons are 1) Thundurus-T has an incredibly potent match up versus too many top threats and 2) Thundurus-T's ability to pivot and boost reduce defensive counter play outlandishly compared to the rest of the metagame. I add other miscellaneous points at the end of this post to complete my analysis, including 1) discussing public support for Thundurus-T test and 2) briefly discussing potential other suspects including Moltres-Galarian, Conkeldurr, Aegislash and Chansey.

1) Thundurus-T has an incredibly potent match up versus too many top threats


To be clear, the main Thundurus-T set I am referring to unless otherwise specified is as follows:

Thundurus-Therian (M) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Focus Blast
- Psychic
- Knock Off

Quickly looking at the viability rankings as of November 21st, 2021, is the best evidence I can provide for the claim in large font:

S Rank

Excadrill

A+ Rank

Aegislash

Azumarill

Primarina

Slowking

Thundurus-T

A Rank

Amoonguss

Celesteela

Conkeldurr

Hydreigon

Jirachi

Krookodile

Mandibuzz

Mienshao

Moltres-Galar

Salamence

Skarmory

Tangrowth

Tapu Bulu

Zarude

Looking at the top threats, which I define as A rank, A+ rank, and S rank, you can see while Thundurus cannot OHKO most of them, it's power, coverage, speed, and access to Volt Switch means it has favorable match ups 1v1 vs essentially all of them, bar Tapu Bulu, Tangrowth, Zarude, Mienshao, and Aegislash. Bulu and Tangrowth still have to be very wary of Sludge Bomb and Aegislash even if it can beat Thundurus, hates Knock Off and Volt Switch chip. Having relatively good match ups vs 14 out of 19 top threats (not including opposing Thundurus-T) is astonishing to me and nothing else in our tier comes close to that.

Our only "actual" S rank Pokemon, Excadrill, actually loses to almost every single one of these Pokemon 1v1, only perhaps tenuously beating Bulu but that still depends on the set.

Would a comparison to Mienshao be more apt, considering Mienshao fulfills a similar offensive pivot role to Thundurus? Even if this is true, the big difference is the state of water types in this tier - Azumarill, Primarina, and Slowking all generally cannot be forced out by Mienshao, but they are easy bait for Thundurus.

In this list, I say things like Salamence have a poor match up 1v1 to Thundurus even if Thundurus cannot KO it, because the Volt Switch does enough damage to generally force Salamence to waste time healing and create an opening for threats like Azumarill. Even Zarude, which you could argue has a decent MU vs Thundurus-T, has to tread extremely carefully around Focus Blast.

It should also be clear that the Pokemon with favorable MUs to Thundurus-T, are generally not overly threatening Pokemon. Three of them alone are Grass types and can generally be prepared for in a single slot, like Amoonguss, which also can check Mienshao strongly and even some Aegislash sets. The point: once Thundurus-T comes in on a mon it has a favorable MU with, and if you're running anything even remotely standard then your team will likely have 2 or more Pokemon weak to Thundurus-T, you're almost being forced to be put on the defensive. It's to the point where Thundurus is broken, just too powerful for the metagame.


2) Thundurus-T's ability to pivot and boost reduce defensive counter play outlandishly compared to the rest of the metagame is broken

Thundurus-T's defensive counterplay to the pivot set alone, when factoring in the other coverage moves (Sludge Bomb and Grass Knot generally) it can run over Knock Off and Focus Blast, is barren to say the least. Similar to Kommo-o, there is more or less no standard Pokemon in the UU metagame that is reliable defensively vs Thundurus. Chansey hates Knock Off and is easily 2HKO by Nasty Plot Focus Blast, specially defensive Quagsire, Swampert, and Gastrodon can be Grass Knot easily and our other common Ground types - Excadrill and Krookodile - simply die to Focus Blast.

The ability to completely overpower basically all Ground types in our meta is part of what makes Volt Switch Thundurus so powerful.

In this ladder game, predicting against Focus Blast Thundurus on turn 6 was probably objectively the correct move but it causes an instant forfeit on turn 6: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1458588880-ivi6g9jdibf7a7d0025z1stuyg29ohcpw.

Despite having nominally passable Thundurus-T responses (namely Scarf Hydreigon and specially defensive Roserade), the opponent's team is just far too weak to Thundurus-T with Skarmory, Moltres-Galarian, and Excadrill. Yes, this is a building flaw and most teams shouldn't be this weak, however, it's still startling how defensive counter play just so obviously crumbles after Hydreigon is Knocked Off.

The best breakers we have in the tier, Conkeldurr, Mienshao, and Aegislash, while they can be extremely effective especially against hard stall teams (less so Conkeldurr as it has to content with defensive Salamence and Neutralizing Gas Weezing Galarian), at least they have a degree of predictability and you can defend against it. Thundurus as a pivot just breaks things open all by itself against even more bulky offense and balanced teams because, as mentioned before, it has an incredibly high amount of opportunities. And while there are a few Rock type Pokemon (notably Nihilego), that can additionally counter Thundurus-T, they hate being pivoted on and like the Grass types, are normally hard countered in natural teambuilding by opposing Steel types.

Miscellaneous points:

1) Our public survey indicates that Thundurus-T is the most problematic element post Kommo-o https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...nutes-community-surveys.3665716/#post-9022451

2) While I firmly believe Conkeldurr is broken because it opens up too many holes when against any slower Pokemon and Aegislash is broken because it is unwallable and great defensive utility, I understand these things have much less support and know we can look at them later. I understand Chansey has even less support now, even though I believe it walls too much of the metagame.

3) A more notable Pokemon to be asked for a test is Moltres-Galarian. I understand though one of (but not the only) the reasons to suspect it according to TSR is that the combination of Kommo-o and Moltres-Galarian is broken - that combination no longer exists. Additionally, I'll point out the defensive counterplay to Moltres Galarian does not have to worry about pivots as much - to me, it's clear that Nihilego much rather switch in on Moltres-Galarian than pivot Thundurus-T most of the time.

4) I think Thundurus-T can make rather interesting structures on semi-stall given that it can serve as a Volt Switch immunity, particularly when used with a Regenerator Grass type, which further lets you make your Stealth Rock user Diancie/Nihilego instead of a Ground type.
 
Celebiii's UU Metagame Predictions: Post-Kommo-o Ban

The Winners

:roserade:: Roserade adores Kommo-o no longer being around to wall it and the general slower pace of the metagame, following HO losing a key piece. It still retains all of the great qualities it had before in tossing down Spikes and throwing out Sludge Bombs, but can do so much more freely in this new meta.
:nihilego:: Nihilego enjoys no longer having Kommo-o around as a switch-in to its Rock STAB as well as HO dying out. Nihilego works well on bulky offense and balance teams, greatly appreciating the slower pace of the meta. It is also a fantastic check to 2 very dangerous Pokemon that the community has had its eyes on recently in Thundurus-Therian and Galarian Moltres.
:amoonguss:: Amoonguss might love the departure of Kommo-o more than anything on this list. It no longer needs to worry about Kommo-o ruining its Spore attempts with Overcoat, blocking its Sludge Bombs with Bulletproof, or just using it to set up one of its many sweeping sets in general. If Nihilego and Roserade increase in usage as I have predicted, it may even surpass Tangrowth again as the more common Regenerator Grass-type, as it can handle those two much better than Tangrowth.
:keldeo:: With the need for Fairies on every team dropping due to Kommo-o leaving (and their increased liability on a team given the Poison-types that are likely to rise in usage), Keldeo gets more room to breathe in this new meta. Its Speed tier remains as fantastic as ever, and with HO likely to decrease in usage, Keldeo will be more free to be slotted onto teams without opening gaping defensive holes.
:krookodile:: If Nihilego rises in usage as I predict, Krookodile will regain some of its former usage as a Rock resist. I feel that it is being underrated a bit in the current meta, as it does outspeed the extremely common lead Excadrill and still offers the same great role compression it always has. As well, with Poison-types likely to become more common, Krookodile is more likely to be paired with one of these, allowing it to be a bit safer against Mienshao and Conkeldurr. Finally, Krookodile itself appreciates not having to fear Kommo-o's many Fighting-type STAB attakcs.
:salamence:: With Kommo-o's departure, Salamence faces less opportunity cost as a Dragon-type. As with Keldeo, it will also appreciate the likely drop in usage of Fairy-types. It will not appreciate Nihilego becoming more popular, but I wouldn't be surpised if Dragon Dance sets see a resurgence in popularity as win conditions on bulky offense and balance teams.
:hydreigon:: Just like with Salamence, Hydreigon faces less opportunity cost as a Dragon-type now, and will appreciate the predicted decline in Fairy-type usage, even moreso than Salamence will, since Hydreigon's Dark STABs were actually resisted by the Fairies (unlike Salamence's Flying STAB). The overall speed of the metagame dropping is also friendly to Hydreigon, allowing it to be slotted onto more teams without worrying about speed control as much.
:slowbro-galar:: Galarian Slowbro was often less effective against the hyper offense teams that dominated the tier recently, since it allowed several HO threats like Galarian Moltres, Dragon Dance Necrozma, and Swords Dance Aegislash to set up on it. With the metagame slowing down, Galarian Slowbro will likely increase in usage again as a bulky pivot, Calm Mind win condition, and (very unfortunately) Nasty Plot sweeper with Quick Draw + Quick Claw.
:zygarde-10%:: I predict Zygarde-10% usage will only continue to rise with the increased viability of bulky offense and spikes teams in the coming metagame. It will also appreciate the predicted drop in Fairy-type usage, since these are some of its best checks.
:crawdaunt:: Similar to the above, a slower metagame and fewer Fairies makes for a friendlier environment for the OHKO crab. Kommo-o itself was also a huge roadblock for Crawdaunt, so it loves Clanger being banned.
:jirachi:: I expect Jirachi to rise up as one of the best checks to Nihilego in UU. If Salamence rises in usage as I expect it to, I predict that this was also greatly benefit Jirachi, as the two pair excellently together to cover each others' weaknesses.
:lycanroc-dusk:: Lycanroc-Dusk appreciates a slower metagame that allows it to act as a late-game sweeper after its teammates have weakened the opposing team, compared with the previous HO-dominanted meta where it let in many dangerous setup sweepers. Many of the Fairies as well as Focus Sash Excadrill could also check it, and the decline I predict in their usage should allow Lycanroc-Dusk to roam UU a little more freely than before. Lycanroc-Dusk also appreciates defensive Kommo-o leaving the tier as defensive check to it.
:mamoswine:: Mamoswine synergizes excellently with Spikes to pressure Pokemon immune to them (namely, Flying-types), so the expected increase in Spikes usage should be very friendly to it. It fits very naturally on the bulky offense styles I expect to rise in usage, and can check Thundurus-Therian offensively while providing the team with a Ground immunity and priority in Ice Shard.
:rhyperior:: Rhyperior got some big wins with Kommo-o being banned. A very prominent Rock resist is no longer in the tier, Primarina and Excadrill usage is likely to drop, Amoonguss is likely to become more popular as a Regenerator Grass-type, and can help check the very dangerous Thundurus-Therian and Galarian Moltres. Expect it to become more common.
:gardevoir:: With both Thundurus-Therian and Galarian Moltres on everyone's threatlist right now, (Choice Scarf) Gardevoir is looking like a very good safety net to have on a team against these threats. I expect rain to rise as the dominant weather in UU as well (not a dominant style, but moreso the most-used weather), and Gardevoir is an excellent weapon to have in that MU as well. Finally, if the other Dragons and Keldeo rise in usage as I expect, Gardevoir will have even more justification for a spot on teams.
:cobalion:: Cobalion functions much better in slower metagames where it can outspeed most Pokemon on a team while providing Stealth Rocks, a Dragon-type and Dark-type check, and pivot support with Volt Switch, and these are all characteristics that are likely to be needed in the coming metagame.
:politoed:: I expect rain to rise up as the dominant weather in UU as people remember it can be quite good (especially with Thundurus-Therian around to abuse it) and with HO being less prominent (meaning rain faces less competition as an offensive playstyle). Politoed enables this style, and fortunately is also great against lead Excadrill, so I expect its usage to rise as well.
:reuniclus:: Reuniclus appreciates not being overwhelmed by HO's raw power, which often did not give it a chance to set up or pivot around. With a slower metagame, I expect Calm Mind and Assault Vest sets to rise back up in prominence, especially since both sets act as great checks to Thundurus-Therian, Nihilego, Keldeo, and Galarian Slowbro. It also functions well in metagames with Spikes since Magic Guard allows it to bypass damage from them.
:starmie:: Similar to Cobalion, Starmie functions best when it can outspeed most things on the opposing team, and a slower metagame provides that for it. Starmie is also less of a liability on a team when every member doesn't have to be depended on to check a hyper offense team threat. Starmie can offensively check many of the Pokemon that I expect to rise in usage above as well, so expect it to become much more common.
:venusaur:: Sun has seen an increase in usage lately and Venusaur in particular LOVES Kommo-o being gone, as it was a very common Pokemon that checked its boosting set with aplomb. I will also be interested to see if it gets used on teams outside of sun, as it does have a lot of great traits, particularly vs. stall with a sleep move, Toxic immunity, instant recovery, Knock Off, good bulk, and the ability to pressure the Unaware walls.
:darmanitan:: Where sun goes, so does big Darm. Kommo-o was also a great check to it, so there is now one less thing around to stop Choice Scarf, Choice Band, and Heavy-Duty Boots sets from terrorizing teams again.

The Losers
:azumarill:: Azumarill being an HO staple means that the loss of a key HO Pokemon really hurts it. Azu was also able to offensively check Kommo-o, so its departure gives it one less target. The likely rise in usage of Poison-types is also very unkind to Azumarill.
:excadrill:: Specifically, I expect lead Focus Sash Excadrill to become less common due to HO losing Kommo-o. I do think the regular utility set will continue to be excellent (and will be great at spinning the Spikes I predict to become more common away), but Exca will have one less role, which should drop its usage a bit.
:primarina:: Quite possibly the biggest loser of the Kommo-o ban. Primarina was an excellent check to basically every Kommo-o set, and will be less needed on teams following its ban. Like the other fairies, I predict the rise in Poison-type usage will also cause Primarina's usage to drop. I don't expect it to go to B rank or anything, as it can still be a very effective team player with any of its sets, and it will still be valuable in checking Dragons, Dark-types, and Keldeo, but I do expect to see less Prim soon.
:sylveon:: Sylveon also takes a massive hit with Kommo-o leaving the tier and the likely rise in Poison-types' usage. Unfortuately for it, it was already dropping in usage following the Latias ban, and another Dragon leaving the tier is doing it no favours.
:hatterene:: Potentially the least impacted of the Fairies by the Kommo-o ban, as it does function well alongside or against Spikes teams, and is always able to threaten Poison-types with its Psychic STAB. I may even be wrong here and we might see Hatt rise in usage - definitely a Pokemon to keep on the radar in the coming weeks.
:moltres-galar:: Galarian Moltres is one of the most iconic HO staples of this generation, and with the style likely to see less usage following the Kommo-o ban, I expect its usage to drop as well. Nihilego being much more viable is also not good for it. On the other hand, many people rate Galarian Moltres as one of the most dangerous Pokemon in UU right now, and Weakness Policy sets are still able to end games at the drop of a hat, so I don't expect it to become that much worse - just appear on fewer teams.
:thundurus-therian:: The reasoning for Thundurus-Therian being in this category is the same as for Galarian Moltres - HO will likely become less prominent, and Nihilego will likely become more prominent. Similar to Galarian Moltres though, this may not mean it actually gets used less, just that it fits on fewer teamstyles, since it is public enemy #1 in the collective UU playerbase mind right now. In fact, pivot sets likely becoming more prominent may even cause it to become more popular than before.
:chansey:: Stall teams were one of the most effective ways to deal with HO, and Chansey was on essentially every one of them. With the style likely to become less prominent, Chansey will likely see some drop in usage. It also really hates being pressured by Spikes and constant pivoting, which I see as becoming more common in the following metagame.
:tangrowth:: More Poison-types in the meta and fewer physical boosting threats (most notably, Azumarill) is really bad for the Tangster. Kommo-o being gone also means that Thundurus-Therian is much freer to begin running Poison moves again, making Tangrowth a much less effective check. I would not be surprised if Amoonguss overtakes it in usage (again).
:necrozma:: Necrozma really wasn't used on many teams outside of HO, so with the style likely to decrease in usage, I expect we will see less of it as well. However, I could see other boosting sets such as Calm Mind becoming more popular, or even utility sets with Steath Rock and Knock Off.


Whew, that was a lot. Thanks a whole bunch if you read through all of that LOL. I'll be very interested to see how this new metagame shapes up and if my predictions end up being correct - many of them are predicated on Spikes and Poison-types rising in usage, and Fairy-types and hyper offense dropping in usage, so it's entirely possible I could be totally wrong. We'll just have to wait and see where this meta goes!
 
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:ss/thundurus-therian:

Just jumping in here to say that Thundurus-T should absolutely get suspected soon. Pif made a really good post on the topic so I won't go too in depth here, but he is absolutely correct in that Nasty Plot Thundy-T just steamrolls a wide majority of the tier's major threats, and even the counters to that set (the Water/Grounds) get wrecked by the Grass Knot pivot set. Thundy-T is just too constrictive on building right now and should get suspected as soon as humanly possible.
 
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