np: SS UU Stage 10 - Airplanes (Latias Retest)

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Lily

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Hey again everyone!

As you've probably seen by now, UU has changed quite a bit as of today. The changes are as follows:

Buzzwole moved from UU to OU
Pelipper moved from UU to OU
Barraskewda moved from RU to OU
Ninetales-Alola moved from RU to OU

Excadrill moved from OU to UU
Hydreigon moved from OU to UU
Mandibuzz moved from OU to UU
Skarmory moved from OU to UU
Slowking moved from OU to UU
Swampert moved from OU to UU

Pretty big, right? Well, we wanna make it bigger. As such, the UU council has voted to unban Latias from UU.


(i'll edit in the other votes when they're here but the outcome won't be changed)


Latias is very powerful and we all know this; it was banned for a reason, right? Well, here's the thing - it was banned a very long time ago in a very different metagame, and back then we didn't have much by way of defensive presences that could handle it; Pokemon like Primarina and Celesteela were kept down by the ever-looming presence of Zeraora, Aegislash was still banned, and we didn't have the new additions of Excadrill, Hydreigon, and Mandibuzz to help in the fight against it. The most common method of dealing with Latias was using Slowking to switch into it and then Teleporting into an offensive check like Zeraora or Choice Scarf Krookodile. Nowadays we've got more; Primarina, Aegislash, Celesteela, Jirachi, Galarian Moltres and Zarude are all stable parts of the metagame, and revenge killers like Krookodile, Choice Scarf Mienshao, Lycanroc-D, Azelf, Zygarde-10%, and Mamoswine are doing better than they used to. We also got the aforementioned three newcomers in Excadrill, Hydreigon, and Mandibuzz which can check it offensively or defensively, and Slowking is an ever-helpful pivot that can hopefully ensure Latias is kept at bay.

---

So, how do you guys feel about this meta? Do you think it'll be better or worse than the old one? Which new addition are you most excited for, and do you think anything will be banworthy? Let us know!!
 
I'm planning on making a bigger post talking about all of these drops (and potentially retesting other UUBL Pokemon? :eyes:) later, but I just want to say that that attachment actually inflicted severe psychic damage on me and I almost started crying in the middle of my college's cafeteria because of it so thanks for that (not :hearteyes:)
 
can we pretend that airplanes
in the night sky are like shooting stars
jail. both of you. now. :blobstop:

Mod edit: I COULD REALLY USE A WISH RIGHT NOW

normal edit: WHO WAS THE FUCKING MOD WHO DID THIS I'M ABOUT TO BECOME THE FUCKING JOKER

Mod edit again: WISH RIGHT NOW WISH RIGHT NOW

normal edit again: WHO KEEPS DOING THIS AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

normal edit for the final time: it's been four days and I still keep getting reacts on this post please stop guys
 
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Don’t want to make a really huge hinky dinky post, but have we considered unbanning other things like Terrakion? It was here when Aegislash was still banned, which forces it run EQ, and it seems like the meta is going towards a heavily defensive area where an extra breaker like Terrakion would be nice to have, and not terrible to deal with with Slowking + Aegislash + Skarmory here.

It’s just a thought though, meta just changed so we could probably see how it goes for a while first. Maybe other things could be unbanned too later.
 
Hey, long time lurker here.

I've been playing occasionally over the last few months and I had quite some fun playing it. I'm really excited for these shifts and the Latias unban. I know that everyone knows this, but the shake up in the tier is gonna huge and I'm pretty excited for it.


I will make a more metagame focused, when I have more experience with them.
Until then, have a nice day!
 

Aqua Jet

Formerly Aqua Ring
is a Pre-Contributor
Sorry for the short post, I just would like to point out that Sneasel improves significantly post-October shifts, with one of its primary answers in Buzzwole having left for OU. In addition, Sneasel has gained a host of new victims, outlined in the table below:
Pokémon​
Calculation​
Notes​
:Excadrill:
252 Atk Choice Band Sneasel Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 360-426 (99.7 - 118%) -- approx. 93.8% chance to OHKO
~~~
+2 252 Atk Sneasel Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 385-454 (106.6 - 125.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Sneasel Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 480-567 (132.9 - 157%) -- guaranteed OHKO​
Swords Dance Sneasel must be able to get to +2 Atk before OHKOing Excadrill with either Knock Off or Triple Axel.​
:Hydreigon:
252 Atk Choice Band Sneasel Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 174-206 (53.5 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Sneasel Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 522-618 (160.6 - 190.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Sneasel Low Kick (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 288-340 (88.6 - 104.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

~~~
252 Atk Sneasel Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 348-414 (107 - 127.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO​
:Latias:
252 Atk Choice Band Sneasel Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latias: 420-494 (139.5 - 164.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Sneasel Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latias: 522-618 (173.4 - 205.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
~~~
252 Atk Sneasel Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latias: 348-414 (115.6 - 137.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO​
:Mandibuzz:
252 Atk Choice Band Sneasel Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 248 HP / 92+ Def Mandibuzz: 384-456 (90.7 - 107.8%) -- approx. 31.3% chance to OHKO
0 Atk Mandibuzz U-turn vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Sneasel: 114-136 (45.4 - 54.1%) -- 43.8% chance to 2HKO
~~~
+2 252 Atk Sneasel Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 248 HP / 92+ Def Mandibuzz: 504-600 (119.1 - 141.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO​
Swords Dance Sneasel must be able to get to +2 Atk before OHKOing Mandibuzz with or Triple Axel.​
:Slowking:
252 Atk Choice Band Sneasel Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Slowking: 458-542 (116.2 - 137.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
~~~
+2 252 Atk Sneasel Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Slowking: 612-722 (155.3 - 183.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO​
Interestingly, Swords Dance Sneasel is unable to OHKO Slowking with Knock Off unless it is at +2 Atk.​
 
Swampert moved from OU to UU



Before this thread gets overrun with Excadrill, Latias, Hydreigon, and a lot of the other more "hot" picks, I'd like to talk quickly about what could potentially be one of the best, if not the best Stealth Rock setter in UU.

Swampert @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Flip Turn
- Earthquake
- Toxic / Yawn
- Stealth Rock

or

Swampert @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Careful Nature
- Flip Turn
- Earthquake
- Toxic / Yawn
- Stealth Rock​

Depending on your team's specific needs (and thanks to Swampert's Physical and Special Defense both being the same) you can reliably tech your EVs to whatever you need to cover. Flip Turn combined with STAB Earthquake, Rocks, and Toxic is an absolutely brutal combination. Excadrill hates physically invested variants of this thing for example.

252 Atk Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Swampert: 130-154 (32.1 - 38.1%) -- 0.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Yawn forces switches, Toxic damages and weakens over time, so it depends on what you need Swampert to do.

Don't sleep on it, its bulk is extremely nice in UU compared to how it was in OU (barely serviceable), and its utility is wonderful.
 
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I saw the art in the OP and laughed so hard I spit out my chocolate milk

Here I am in usual fashion to make my quarterly post talking about usage stats over the last month or so! For those who haven't seen one of these before, I talk about significant increases or decreases UU pokemon have in usage as well as the drops and rises that occur with tier shifts. I'm also going to leave questions to spark discussion if anyone wants to answer them. Now, lets get started!
| Rank | Pokemon | Usage % |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---------
| 1 | Kommo-o | 24.64630% |
| 2 | Jirachi | 20.36324% |
| 3 | Krookodile | 19.91284% |
| 4 | Salamence | 19.34627% |
| 5 | Aegislash | 18.38341% |
| 6 | Celesteela | 18.00304% |
| 7 | Rotom-Wash | 16.63767% |
| 8 | Amoonguss | 15.97976% |
| 9 | Thundurus-Therian | 15.16858% |
| 10 | Buzzwole | 15.09917% |
| 11 | Chansey | 14.28551% |
| 12 | Mamoswine | 13.64055% |
| 13 | Lycanroc-Dusk | 12.67930% |
| 14 | Azelf | 12.36048% |
| 15 | Tangrowth | 12.31746% |
| 16 | Keldeo | 11.81049% |
| 17 | Conkeldurr | 11.14691% |
| 18 | Primarina | 10.18099% |
| 19 | Rotom-Heat | 10.16091% |
| 20 | Nihilego | 10.09584% |
| 21 | Moltres | 9.64615% |
| 22 | Zarude | 9.44728% |
| 23 | Nidoking | 9.34010% |
| 24 | Pelipper | 9.18455% |
| 25 | Regieleki | 8.93157% |
| 26 | Hatterene | 8.36901% |
| 27 | Zygarde-10% | 8.01160% |
| 28 | Azumarill | 7.55196% |
| 29 | Tentacruel | 6.65520% |
| 30 | Diggersby | 6.63376% |
| 31 | Barraskewda | 6.51764% |
| 32 | Slowbro-Galar | 6.33695% |
| 33 | Crawdaunt | 6.31792% |
| 34 | Moltres-Galar | 5.98826% |
| 35 | Ribombee | 5.78172% |
| 36 | Gyarados | 5.57987% |
| 37 | Tapu Bulu | 5.38992% |
| 38 | Umbreon | 4.74776% |
Rank | Pokemon | Usage % |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---------
| 1 | Aegislash | 22.10409% |
| 2 | Krookodile | 21.63884% |
| 3 | Salamence | 20.49217% |
| 4 | Jirachi | 19.75884% |
| 5 | Amoonguss | 17.88171% |
| 6 | Kommo-o | 17.12222% |
| 7 | Celesteela | 16.58083% |
| 8 | Keldeo | 16.54832% |
| 9 | Tangrowth | 15.01144% |
| 10 | Rotom-Wash | 14.86877% |
| 11 | Thundurus-Therian | 13.88015% |
| 12 | Lycanroc-Dusk | 12.88121% |
| 13 | Chansey | 11.99686% |
| 14 | Buzzwole | 11.72816% |
| 15 | Mamoswine | 11.63851% |
| 16 | Primarina | 10.86266% |
| 17 | Pelipper | 10.43637% |
| 18 | Rotom-Heat | 10.38173% |
| 19 | Azelf | 9.95510% |
| 20 | Zarude | 9.79553% |
| 21 | Regieleki | 9.26405% |
| 22 | Azumarill | 8.93886% |
| 23 | Conkeldurr | 8.83870% |
| 24 | Nidoking | 8.69397% |
| 25 | Thundurus | 8.35877% |
| 26 | Moltres | 8.34350% |
| 27 | Zygarde-10% | 8.24966% |
| 28 | Hatterene | 7.85618% |
| 29 | Nihilego | 7.69245% |
| 30 | Tapu Bulu | 7.03905% |
| 31 | Diggersby | 6.83426% |
| 32 | Crawdaunt | 6.52310% |
| 33 | Barraskewda | 6.34566% |
| 34 | Seismitoad | 6.05768% |
| 35 | Tentacruel | 6.03829% |
| 36 | Slowbro-Galar | 5.34315% |
| 37 | Ribombee | 5.25668% |
| 38 | Necrozma | 5.25290% |
| 39 | Gyarados | 5.20840% |
| 40 | Moltres-Galar | 5.13228% |
| 41 | Reuniclus | 4.85300% |
| 42 | Umbreon | 4.77700% |
| 43 | Mienshao | 4.54530% |
| 44 | Rhyperior | 4.53659% |

Notable rises in usage
(17%-->24%): Kommo-o has absolutely surged in recent weeks after being on the downfall for so longer, usurping salamence as the tier's main dragon-type. Kommo-o can fulfill so many roles on teams, making it an extremely valuable pick. Both SD and clang soul sets are menacing while its rocker sets are extremely reliable. Its a great check to many staples like roserade, aegislash, lycanroc, and chansey. I'll even go and say it was the best Pokemon before shifts.
1633123305420.png
(11%-->15%): Though he has left us, Buzzwole still needs his recognition. Buzz has risen immensely in recent weeks, pairing with the rising roserade and being a great check to common threats like lycanroc, zarude, and mienshao. It provides a lot of defensive utility while still being a ferocious wallbreaker. Its sad to see him go, but he was amazing when he was still here.
(9%-->12%): I know most of you all are tired from seeing azelf but its very hard to ignore now that its a legitimate option. After the ban of thundurus, pivot azelf sets have grown increasingly dominant due to its power and elite speed tier. It can pivot on threats until it wears them down to be KOd by its attacks while knocking them off. It also has a phenomenal movepool, allowing it to bop short-term checks like rhyperior with energy ball. Azelf is the true underdog of SS UnderUsed as it fought its way to the top.
(2.2%-->3.3%): Though not officially rising to UU just yet we should still talk about roserade. Rose has surged in the recent weeks to take on a tier unprepared for its dangerous spikes. It can lay them for days thanks to its matchup against nearly all of the tiers hazard removers. It threatens popular picks like rotom wash, primarina, tang, and amoonguss as well. Rose has quickly become one of the most centralizing Pokemon in UU, and it'll be interesting to see if rose stays dominant in this new meta.
: While these 3 haven't risen in usage, they still have remained at the top for a long time,. showing how strong they are in the current metagame. Krook role compresses so many roles as an electric immune pokemon, rocker, and ghost resist. Salamence is on the downfall a bit but still remains a strong pick. Jirachi offers lots of utility as a scarfer and wish passer. It will be interesting to see if these three can keep their dominance with lots of new faces in the tier.
Notable drops in usage
(22%-->18%): Aegislash has been on the decline lately for several reasons. Spikes being popular cause it to be worn down quickly for threats like azelf or buzzwole to KO it. The popularity of steela and kommo-o as checks doesnt help, not to mention it faces severe competition from the former as a steel on a team due to its better bulk and ground immunity. Still, aegi is one of the most influential pokemon in the tier and it'll still have use now, checking latias and slowking. Though, hydreigon and excadrill are certainly problematic for it.
(16%-->11%): Keldeo is hella down bad rn. Its not gotten much usage because its so overprepared for with prim and roserade being popular. Now, latias, slowking, and rain leaving put the nail in the coffin for this horse. It'll be interesting to see how keldeo holds up now and whether it can be a top tier.
(4.5%-->3.8%): If this was a normal tier shift rhyperior would've dropped. Though I think rhyp is still very solid I can see why with the popularity of grasses and waters in the tier. It faces lots of competition from rockers like seismitoad, krook, and nihilego now. It still threatens most hazard removal, but will rhyperior's time be up? We'll have to wait and see. I'm sure RU would like their ground rhino back though.
Sayonara old friends
- all of these Pokemon have risen to OU and are no longer legal in UU. Out of these changes, the only one I'll really miss is Buzzwole. It was such a great Pokemon, providing so much defensive utility while still being a powerhouse. It was especially fun to use on webs. Rain was always meh in my eyes and alolan ninetales isn't relevant here, so this was a great trade of rises for drops
Welcome to the party! (new drops)
- kicking things off we have hydreigon. Hydreigon will be an absolute menace, with its offensive sets being very dangerous to take on. It has a great offensive and defensive typing that lets it take on many threats like aegislash, rotom-w, and glowbro. It can boost its special attack to sky high levels with nasty plot or opt for roost to sustain itself. It also can run many different sets like choice scarf for speed control, a bulky set with defog, a stallbreaker set utilizing taunt, and SPECS HYDREIGON to be a nuke. Its speed tier does hold it back a fair bit due to its exploitability, ad checks like chansey and primarina can take it on. Nevertheless, hydreigon is shaping up to be an amazing tier staple.
-skarmory has returned to UnderUsed after a vacation in OU! We all know what it does, it checks physical threats like lycanroc, gyarados, DD mence, zarude, krookodile, and excadrill while supporting its team with spikes. It synergizes with plenty of pokemon like slowking, tangrowth, and amoonguss. Its great to have skarm back.
- another returning face, slowking has dropped to UU as well! Slowking was one of the best Pokemon back in March and I don't see that changing much here. Its an amazing specially defensive pivot that can support its team with future sight. Its very tough to break and checks top threats like Nihilego, latias, and keldeo. The infamous regenerator core of slowking and amoonguss will surely return. Though others think it'll make the meta stale, I'm glad to have slowking back. Mons like hydreigon and aegislash also make things a bit harder for slowking now.
-while this is the least major drop mandibuzz will still be nice to have. Compressing roles of defog + ghost resist + ground immunity is great. It checks latias, excadrill, zarude, non toxic aegi, and softchecks DD mence. It'll have some good competition in both hydreigon and galarian moltres but I think mandibuzz will still be a nice pick to use here, even if it isn't the best.
- swampert is back in UU after spending WAY too long in OU. It will likely have a solid niche as a rocks setter thanks to its fantastic mixed bulk and access to flip turn, allowing it to be less of a momentum sink and fit better on VoltTurn builds. I can also see some offensive rocks sets pop up as well. Its ability to check many threats like moltres, non grass knot thundurus-t, nidoking, and the washer is very good rn.
- longtime OU staple is finally home in UU, where it'll be great but not broken. It provides the tier with the hazard control we very need and helps check plenty of threats like the rotoms, thundurus-t, nihilego, jirachi, and AV glowbro. Utility will likely be the best set thanks to its amazing role compression, but SD sets with and without sand support will certainly pop up from time to time.
-to finish it off, I have to talk about my queen latias. She's finally back to take charge, though she wont be busted this time. 3 attacks roost and CM look to be fantastic thanks to the speed, power, and bulk of latias. I'm really really excited for how she and the others will fit in UU.

Lastly, here are some questions if anyone wants to answer.
1. Thoughts on the rises and their impact on the tier?
2. Similarly, thoughts on the drops and their impact on the tier?
3. What old UU Pokemon get better or worse from these tier shifts?
4. Any new sets you think would be worth sharing and trying out?
5. As talked about earlier somewhat, are there any other Pokemon you believe is worth retesting?


Hope you enjoyed reading this and have a great day!
 
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ausma

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OU Forum Leader
Hey everyone, I've been kind of distant from UU for a while since I wasn't really too big on the metagame, but these shifts are really fantastic and have really revitalized my interest in the tier; in a vacuum, nothing feels overtly broken and every drop, to me, feels like a healthy addition to the tier that are all really exciting to play with. Let me share some observations I've had thus far about UU's new toys:


Latias

Latias coming back was a major surprise to me, but definitely not an unwelcome one. So far from my testing it's been incredible, operating greatly with a wealth of really cool sets. I've had a ton of success with Choice Specs, which has a Draco Meteor that melts 90% of the tier, and a Psyshock, Aura Sphere, Mystical Fire, and Trick that checks most of everything else. Although a bit prediction reliant against Steel-type cores (especially those including Celesteela and Jirachi), it's criminally hard to switch into. Choice Scarf Healing Wish is fantastic on BO cores and VoltTurns too, and its access to Defog provides the tier with even more removal options. I haven't tested Calm Mind yet, but I'd imagine it will likely be running 3 attacks since it needs at least 3 moveslots to hit everything in the tier neutrally, and will likely be pretty strong. Latias feels to me like it will be an easy top tier pick, but it hasn't felt broken from my testing, so good intuition from the UU council!


Excadrill

This thing is pretty cool; I recall a couple of my friends thinking it would be too much. Even with Buzzwole gone, I actually quite like what Excadrill brings to the table. Excadrill brings a viable Rapid Spin user into the tier, which is crucial given that removal options were mostly limited to Rotom appliances and Salamence, and due to the wide array of Excadrill checks available such as Celesteela, Tangrowth, and the new Skarmory and Mandibuzz, (and Rotom-W if it runs Sand Rush), it's not really difficult to check at all, thankfully. That being said, Excadrill to me is bar none the strongest win condition that's currently available. Access to a speed-boosting Rapid Spin, Swords Dance, a fantastic defensive typing (or even Sand Rush) let it blank teams that let their checks get too chipped. Outside of the cleaning department, it's a superb Stealth Rock setter, extra removal option, and serviceable Latias check that looks to find a very comfortable spot on bulky offenses, and potentially some balances. Sand Rush is also a solid option, but needs Rock Slide if it expects to do anything against Rotom appliances and even chipped Celesteela/Skarmory.

As far as partners go, SubToxic Aegislash has been my favorite. Aegislash's ability to exploit Excadrill checks like Skarmory which can't touch it for Toxic-spreading opportunities against Mandibuzz and Swampert is invaluable for helping it to prepare an endgame, and both Pokemon together provide a good backbone on Sand cores to check Latias and Nihilego variants. I highly recommend giving it a shake if you haven't tried it already.


Hydreigon

Hydreigon is good; not quite the tier-defining menace I expected it to be, but that might be in part to the fact Latias has been freed, giving it heavy competition. Latias's greater speed, access to Healing Wish, and stronger coverage combinations make potential Choiced sets harder to justify. However, Hydreigon shines with its access to Nasty Plot and its defensive typing allowing it to pivot into Knock Off and Shadow Ball, while still checking Rotom appliances and the newly dropped Slowking well. Hydreigon, like in OU, is a balance buster capable of exploiting Tangrowth and Aegislash, boasting Nasty Plot, a spammable Dark Pulse, and good coverage options to check Dark Pulse switch-ins. Hydreigon is best paired with strong Steel-types that can pivot into revenge killers, such as the aforementioned Latias.


Swampert

This provides the tier with a cool special pivot, Electric-type immunity that isn't blanked by Rotom-Wash, and an option to replace Seismitoad on more offensive teams that are naturally weaker to Rotom-Heat. It's been a very solid Stealth Rock setter from my experience, and Seismitoad doesn't give it as much competition now that Water-type immunities are less valuable with Rain out of the tier. It's a cool glue mon on offenses, but nothing too flashy or spectacular in a vacuum.


Mandibuzz

Mandibuzz is insane role compression, though has some yucky caveats. It provides the tier with an Excadrill, Aegislash, Amoonguss, Tangrowth, and Krookodile pivot that has a stand-out immunity to powder moves, and even provides removal. I don't believe, though, that it will be an incredible removal option in spite of this. From my experience it gets blanked hard by Knock Off and status, very much like in OU, and most of the tier's Stealth Rock setters not named Excadrill will find a way to take advantage of it, typically with Knock Off, status, or momentum. Mandibuzz may need to use Toxic in place of U-turn in order to find a way to punish Stealth Rock setters more consistently, since it is startlingly passive against them otherwise; this may give it a snuggly place on fat, where Knock Off and status switch-ins are far more wide-spread, and momentum is less valuable. Regardless of how it pans out, it's a cool addition to the tier nonetheless.


Skarmory

Skarmory is a very welcome wall that checks very similar things to Mandibuzz, trading off a good Aegislash matchup, U-turn, and an innate powder immunity in exchange for better resilience against Knock Off, Spikes, and a Toxic immunity. Skarmory, however, will definitely be a stronger option than Mandibuzz in a vacuum, though I believe both are going to be viable in their own rights. The tier has been aching for another Spikes-setter, so much so that Roserade rose to prevalence, rising astonishingly to A after languishing in mediocrity for months. With Skarmory back in the tier, I can see hazard stacks becoming a decently popular option due to Skarmory's great role compression and ability to pair very well with the tier's Stealth Rock-setters, though this remains to be seen with Excadrill looking to become a metagame staple, and the tier now having access to more removal options.


Slowking

I've not really seen any Slowking honestly, but either way I don't expect this thing to have the room to pull off Future Sight shenanigans with Latias and Hydreigon in to play. Although it's a phenomenal special pivot with the highly coveted ability to pivot into the aforementioned Latias, Primarina, and Nidoking; let's face it, it will need status if it expects to take advantage of the former two in any capacity. Thunder Wave is a very promising option that also dissuades Aegislash and Celesteela from taking advantage of it, but Toxic may also be serviceable, too; though, we may see Substitute rise as an option from these Pokemon to check this, so I'm admittedly not sure how well Slowking is going to fare in the grand scheme of things. It may be alright on bulky offenses though for its superb pivoting abilities, but aside from that Slowking's future seems extremely contingent on how what it checks respond to it and the metagame as things stabilize.

___

Aside from these drops, I very quickly wanted to mention a couple Pokemon already available in the tier that, I feel, have benefited from the climate of this new metagame.


Aegislash, to me, is the biggest winner of these drops. Not only does it take extreme advantage of Skarmory, Slowking, and some Latias variants, but it is a crazy good partner to both the aforementioned Latias and Excadrill as an option that takes advantage of each of their respective checks superbly with its SubToxic set and wicked valuable defensive typing. Although we saw a decrease in usage this month, I expect this to rectify itself as we discover more unique and powerful Aegislash interactions in such an interesting metagame.


One word: Excadrill. Gigalith's newfound viability in my opinion roots hugely in new blood to enable, but aside from that, its specially defensive variant is a great Stealth Rock setter and a solid wall against Moltres, Tornadus, Rotom-Heat, and Galarian Slowbro that can even take some heat from Aegislash and Nihilego in a pinch. Despite being a mere Sandstorm bot on paper, it still brings some solid utility to Sand cores.


Rotom-Wash was already pretty great, but I think it's benefited quite a bit from the eclipse of Sand Rush Excadrill, Seismitoad losing some value due to Rain rising to OU, and more new blood to safely Volt Switch around. It pairs phenomenally with the newly dropped Latias as a Pokemon capable of blowing away Dragon- and Grass-types that tend to pivot into Rotom-Wash, and it's pretty cool with things like Sneasel and Hydreigon as well.

And lastly, if you guys wanna try a team that uses a conglomeration of what I was talking about above, here's something that's been a lot of fun:

:latias::gigalith::excadrill::rotom-wash::aegislash::mandibuzz:

All in all, though, this metagame has been a blast to play so far. I'm really looking forward to getting back into the tier and seeing where the road leads us next!
 
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pokemonisfun

Free chess/UU tutoring for UU players Neigh. Perf.
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I sent the following in for my vote. I happily and gratefully will continue in the tiering process, Latias outcome aside

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For this Latias vote, I did not play at all in the metagame before making this vote as to be on even footing with my fellow council members.

First, I have to write a note on the wording of this vote. Despite what the OP says, I do not believe we should phrase this as a quickdrop. In Smogon parlance, quick drop is a term that is related to usage drops. Councils have no formal power over this as tiering is determined solely by ladder usage statistics. So we cannot quick drop anything. I do not make this point as a "gotcha" but I want to be precise and consistent when I talk about tiering as I believe that's how we can be professional about this and I believe being professional will help us be fair. I believe we should just call this a quick unban, as quick bans are already a commonly accepted tiering terminology.

Semantics aside, we still cannot deal much with the substance of the tier and metagame because the metagame has not yet developed yet. That's just the nature of doing council tiering decisions directly after a tier shift, i.e., the nature of doing quick bans and quick unbans. This means philosophy and general direction are even more important.

Therefore, the main question I asked myself and answered when votingis this: has the metagame changed drastically enough to try and reset it? If so, is Latias at least an appropriate target (we can argue endlessly on what the perfect target is, but I am hesitant of letting perfect be the enemy of the good).

In my view, the answer to the former question is no so the latter question is superfluous.
Let me be clear: I am not saying Latias is broken in the current metagame. I did not have a chance to assess as I said I have not yet played this metagame when making this decision, like all the other council members.

I am saying the metagame is neither clearly balanced to me nor is it fundamentally altered. I think the former point is clear: it's far too soon to say the metagame is balanced, and if it is balanced, that would be our of sheer luck more than anything.

But how can the metagame not be altered? Well of course it is with the shifts, but let us note the majority of the Pokemon that dropped have defensive roles - Mandibuzz, Skarmory, Swampert, and Slowking. Surely they can still change the metagame, but defensive Pokemon generally have to work in tandem with other Pokemon in order to pose a metagame breaking, i.e., broken, threat. Things like Alakazam and Hawlucha which were deemed broken, also obviously need team support to function optimally but they equally obviously could be the chief architects of breaking teams by themselves.

Could these defensive Pokemon fundamentally shift the metagame not through themsleves, but through pivoting - Mandibuzz, Swampert and most notably Slowking allcan pivot after all? It's possible but not certain, this tier has had periods of extremely heavy pivoting with Slowking and breakers but still, it wasn't considered broken despite my best attempts.

What about the other two drops - Hydreigon and Excadrill - that can pose offenivse threats and defensive threats? I am more concerned that I could be wrong because of these two threats, but the simple fact is: our metagame prior to the shifts was at least on paper equipped to handle the threats. We had Chansey, Primarina, and multiple ways to revenge kill Hydreigon. Not to mention, one of it's likely targets, Aegislash, was becoming more capable of fending off Hydreigon as Close Combat useage has increased. Excadrill is another large worry, but it had to contend with the rising Celesteela and it couldn't sweep without a speed boost from Sand or Rapid Spin, both of which took time to use and theoretically limited Excadrill or it's team in other ways.

There is a bit of a paradox in what I'm saying: the tier isn't too drastically changed with the shifts but we still can't be sure everything is balanced. This is the tension of having knowledge of the substance of the metagame versus me just theorizing about it. When I just think about it, I think the metagame may not be completely different. But when I begin to play it, I will find out whether or not it's actually balanced.

This tension is not something that is to be resolved by unbanning or testing Latias. The tension would be resolved by going through normal tiering actions and seeing if we have to quick ban any of the drops. Only then, after we balance the metagame, do we drop Pokemon.

In my view, and I believe many others view, the only time we do quick bans is when a drop is clearly broken and there is little dissent, in the public and council. Quick unbans should be held to the same standard, but I would be incredulous to think this standard has been met in the minds of my fellow council members. How can we be so sure Latias is not broken now? What counter play to Latias have we gained since her ban? I ask this as a serious question as I was not present when Latias was banned in February 2021. The OP surprises me as many of the Pokemon in my memory listed were present when Latias was banned.

Because I believe we should focus on balancing the metagame before introducing previously broken and banned Pokemon, I vote for Latias to remain UUBL.
 
before I get started with this post I just want to reiterate that that artwork is absolutely horrifying and should be banned from the tier seriously I have not experienced this much psychic damage since Seth Rogen was revealed to be voicing Donkey Kong in the Mario movie

Now with that out of the way, let's talk about these drops! This is by far the most packed shift we've gotten since three-month shifts started back up again, so I am very excited to talk about these!

:ss/swampert:
One of the two drops that I'm most excited for. Swampert offers great role compression between its great defensive typing, ability to set hazards, access to Flip Turn, ability to spread status, and good mixed bulk. It deals with mons like Rotom-W, Thundy-T, and Nihilego (if the latter two don't run Grass Knot) and will overall serve as an excellent glue mon.

:ss/mandibuzz:
The other of the two drops that I'm really excited for. Mandibuzz also offers great role compression between its great defensive typing, ability to remove hazards, access to U-turn, ability to spread status reliable recovery, and good bulk. It deals with a wide variety of the tier, including the two most dangerous drops in Hydreigon and Latias, with ease. Another excellent glue mon.

:ss/excadrill:
Seems really cool on paper but thinking about it more it might actually be worse than we thought it would be. Don't get me wrong, it's still going to be an amazing method of hazard control, but it's not broken. Stuff like Skarm, Steela, and Tang are great right now and prevent it from making as much of a splash as it should. That being said, being a hazard setter who can deal with removers like the Rotom forms (Mold Breaker ayeee) and Hatterene while setting up its own hazards is just incredible in this meta.

:ss/hydreigon:
Probably the most immediately threatening drop and the one with the most potential to be broken (though IMO it's fine right now). Offensively, this thing is a monster- anything not named Chansey or Primarina gets absolutely washed by it. Being able to customize its last moveslot between Earth Power, Flamethrower, or Flash Cannon depending on what the rest of the team can deal with is absolutely great. The main things keeping Drei from being busted are its poor Speed tier (though it might be promising on Webs? :eyes:) and its relative frailty, allowing things like Mienshao, Dazzling Gleam Azelf, and Zydog to revenge kill it easily.

:ss/skarmory:
Probably the least interesting drop to me. We all know what Skarm did before, and we all know what it's going to do now. Moving on.

:ss/slowking:
I was really scared when I found out this thing would be dropping but now thinking more into it it might actually be... kinda meh now? We have Aegislash now, a mon that just shits all over Slowking. Zarude is still a great mon and it wrecks Slowking. Dark types in general are very prominent, making it hard for Slowking to get off its Future Sight. Maybe I'm wrong and Slowking will still be good, but at least it won't be as annoying as it was back in the post Lati/Terrak meta.

:ss/latias:
contrary to popular belief, this mon was actually unbanned on purpose by Lily so that she could curse us all with the abomination that is the artwork in the first post. Now with all UU members being crippled with severe psychic damage, she can finally take over UU as its supreme dictator and ban every mon except Flygon. I'm onto you Lily :psyangry:

In all seriousness, this gal dropping was a total shock, but also a completely welcome one. Dark types have gotten even better, we have Aegislash now, and bulky Steels like Jirachi and Celesteela have been rising in prominence. This thing should still be good, but tier trends have just balanced it out enough to the point where it will be a healthy presence.

That's it from me! I'll be back tomorrow though with a post discussing the winners and losers of this shift as well as discussing a potential retest (:eyes:) so stay tuned for that!
 
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 238-281 (58.9 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Rock Slide vs. 248 HP / 92+ Def Mandibuzz: 382-452 (90.3 - 106.8%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
idk man if you let the exca get its sd these don't seem so great as counters

oh also iron head flinches are quite funny
 
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For some weird reason, I feel like Gigalith got better? Nah, right?


Okay, jokes aside: I think Roserade got better with the shifts. Buzzwole was a great knock absorber which helped other team mates keeping their boots. But now that Buzz left, hazard stacking got a little better. But at the same time, Slowking and Swampert are great additions to the tier and they could be good targets for Rose to set-up on.
 
I will try to answer both Questions 4 and 5,

#4 I was thinking about running a Choice Banded Swampert in this update. Flip Turn really saves it with a free physical momentum move. Despite it being base 60 its also stab and with Band it could do a pretty serviceable amount
Swampert@Choice Band
252Hp/252+Atk/4Sp Def
Adamant Nature
-Flip Turn
-Earthquake
-Liquidation
-Ice Punch/Stone Edge

#5 I know people want a retest on Terrakion. But for me at least, I would be interested on a Gengar retest. Dont get me wrong Gengar is highly scary with 130 sp atk and 110 speed. But dark types are at a all time high, and Sneasel is also gaining popularity and Sneasel outruns Gar and explodes it with a Knock Off, though Sneasel has to watch out for Scarf Gar.
 

Moutemoute

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Hey there. I've been messing with the tier quite a lot since yesterday and I'm really enjoying the drastic changes and the breathe of fresh air it brings to the tier. So yeah here my thoughts on what we got + what's better than before in the tier in my opinion.

New Pokémon


I trully don't think Excadrill is broken for now mainly because things like Skarmory and Celesteela are quite frankly insane in my opinion at the moment, Slowking is also able to sponge hits and either Teleport into smth which can threaten it or just raw Scald it. I didn't see any Sand teams yet and it's probably our setter are actually shit (like Gigalith can't heal at all and sap a fucking ton of momentum in the team). Overall Excadrill feels really nice. Being able to set Stealth Rock vs Hatterene is really fucking huge in my opinion, especially for HO and Rapid Spin is just super useful overall. Mold Breaker is pure nuts vs Rotom-W/H too. I've been messing with Spe Def variants and it's quite nice to be honest !


Not gonna lie, I think Hydreigon is kinda disgusting and really fucking oppresive for the tier. I've seen quite a lot of NP sets and they're really hard to play around when you're playing fat archetypes (you basically have to run Azumarill [great Pokémon atm btw but I'll talk about it later in this post], Primarina or Chansey but even Chansey can struggle vs some Taunt variants of Hydreigon). I've been running both Scarf and Specs and they're great but I kinda think NP is really nasty and may be too much for us to handle. I know we have quite a lot of Pokémon which can RK NP variants of Hydreigon but it stills feel nasty to me..


I have not seen a lot of those to be honest so it's still quite hard to tell if we made the right choice by unbanning it. I voted unban because I feel like this is the right time to test it back in a brand new metagame filled with quite a lot of natural checks. So yeah, not a lot to say about this one, waiting to see how it gonna make its place in the metagame.


I've seen players saying this one is gonna be dogshit and I'm frankly not quite sure about it. It feels kinda odd to be honest because it has a freaking great bulk, typing and moveset, yet I found it pretty meh to add to a team. You want it to take Knock Off hits but then you're losing HDB on it, it becomes way more problematic to check things it's supposed to check if Stealth Rock are up... So yeah not sure about Mandibuzz. I also feel like the 4 MSS is important on this one between since you have to pick Roost and then 3 moves between Knock Off, Foul Play, U-turn, Toxic, Taunt and maybe Whirlwind.. yeah kinda odd place atm..


I think Skarmory is way too good at what it does to be honest. Straight up way too solid. It denies a ton of physical threat and many setup sweepers and I actually don't like that. It fills perfectly its role between hazard setter with either Stealth Rock or Spikes, hazard control with Defog without being too passive thanks to Body Press and Toxic or Whirlwind. Amazing typing and bulk, great moveset. It can even pick the item it wants between Leftovers, Rocky Helmet, Shed Shell or Safety Goggles (to deny Amoonguss). I feel like Skarmory is a fucking chad for real and one of the best Pokémon we got in those shifts.


What a fucking great surprise, I didn't expected this one to come back and I'm actually super glad it's back in UU. It does what it was used to do a couple of months ago, sponge hits and pivot with Teleport. Super great Pokémon and I hope it will stay once for all there.


Finally it dropped from OU, FINALLY ! While Swampert isn't the best Pokémon we got from those shifts for sure, it will be a great addition to low tiers (UU or RU if it had to drop some day). It's a great Stealth Rock setter with a nice typing and moveset, Flip Turn is really nice and allows Swampert to not be too passive vs teams with Grass-types like Amoonguss or Tangrowth.

Old Pokémon


Aegislash is in my opinion still insane in the current metagame, Spe Def variants and offensive ones with Toxic/KC/CC/Shadow Ball are super useful in my opinion. Aegislash can really bypass a lot of its checks with either Toxic or CC and I trully feel like it's still an A+/S rank material. Being able to counter Skarmory and check Latias and Slowking is really useful in my opinion, great Pokemon overall !


With brand new additions to the tier such as Hydreigon, Mandibuzz or Excadrill, it's not really a surprise to see Azumarill doing great in the metagame. I've been quite impressed by Choice Band and BD sets which are able to pressure really hard opponent's teams while still bringing on the table a lot of defensive utility.


I'll keep it short, Celesteela is just insane right now in my opinion. Spe Def variants with Leech Seed have so much staying power and utility. I've been using this Pokemon quite a lot and I really feel like it's one of the metagame where Celesteela can really shine like before. I trully advise people to give it a try because it's an absolutely fantastic check to so many things in the current metagame.


Insane speedtier and typing for the current metagame plus Thousand Arrows which allows it to pressure Skarmory and Celesteela, yeah Zydog is way better than before.
 

Amane Misa

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This might come off as a surprise (or maybe not? idk) but I think that Latias is kind of underwhelming.

Like, we got two new Dark-types that potentially force Latias out, and on top of that, they made Fairy-types near mandatory on every team. Furthermore, Excadrill's presence makes it so Celesteela and Skarmory are so common now. Not to mention, Slowking can take almost every hit and Teleport out.

When your opponent has a Dark-type + a Fairy-type, which has before common, it's extremely difficult to use the right move, and even then, Latias doesn't have enough Special Attack to break them and to not be forced out afterward.
252 SpA Latias Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Primarina: 102-121 (28 - 33.2%) -- 92.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Latias Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 152 SpD Mandibuzz: 169-199 (39.9 - 47%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (just the sample OU spread; I am confident that we will find a more relevant spread for UU in the future)

252 SpA Latias Mystical Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Celesteela: 104-124 (26.1 - 31.1%) -- 12.3% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Latias Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 48 SpD Slowking: 166-196 (42.1 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

These calculations assume you have the right coverage for the opponent's team. Realistically, you're always going to get completely walled every few games. Potentially, you could run Life Orb, but not only is Latias worn out quicker that way, but it also doesn't even do enough damage to its counters. Even with Calm Mind - you'd have to either get to +3 SpA or +2 SpA and hold a Life Orb to reliably OHKO anything:
+2 252 SpA Latias Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 48 SpD Slowking: 331-391 (84 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Latias Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 152 SpD Mandibuzz: 337-397 (79.6 - 93.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Latias Mystical Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Celesteela: 208-246 (52.2 - 61.8%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Latias Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Primarina: 204-240 (56 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


+1 252 SpA Life Orb Latias Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 48 SpD Slowking: 324-382 (82.2 - 96.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Latias Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 152 SpD Mandibuzz: 329-387 (77.7 - 91.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Latias Mystical Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Celesteela: 203-239 (51 - 60%) -- 85.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Latias Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Primarina: 199-234 (54.6 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

It might be a bit hasty to write this post a day after the shifts but it actually got me thinking what if we suspect test Latios?

Latios is a better Latias because they're both usually used with offensive sets. Latios is going to be a big threat in the metagame if it gets into UU. However, would it be broken? Let's analyze its potential sets:
This set can be good, if not the best Latios set, but it will also be heavily prediction-based because the current metagame trends don't favor its typing (just as they don't favor the typing of Latias).
  • With Draco Meteor, it breaks uninvested-Slowking and Mandibuzz over two turns (it can even break a full SpD Slowking).
  • Psyshock allows it to 2HKO +Def Primarina after Stealth Rock damage and max HP Tapu Bulu.
  • Psychic allows it to 2HKO non-SpD Primarina and max HP Tapu Bulu.
  • Mystical Fire allows it to 2HKO +SpD Celesteela and Jirachi after Stealth Rock damage and 2HKO max HP Jirachi without chip damage.
  • Thunderbolt will probably be its best coverage, as it allows Latios to 2HKO all of the aforementioned checks and counters (except for Tapu Bulu lol).
This looks really good on paper, but realistically, Choice Specs Latios can not OHKO any of its best potential switch-ins, which isn't something you want, as we have a lot of Pokemon that can take advantage of Latios being locked to any of its moves. Furthermore, you'd have to actually generate a free turn with it, which won't be a simple task thanks to Dark-, Fairy- and Steel-types being very common in the current metagame.

TL;DR: This set would be really good, if not the best set, but will mostly reward smart and aggressive playing and won't reward mindlessly smashing buttons.

Unlike Choice Specs, this set makes it so playing a bit more mindlessly with Latios is forgivable because it allows it to generate more switch-ins throughout the game and it also lets fewer Pokemon to take advantage of it making the wrong prediction. However, this Latios set will fail to break Pokemon and/or cores that Choice Specs Latios is able; it will suffer from the 4MSS (3, in this case):
  • Draco Meteor + Psyshock + Mystical Fire: it will almost never be able to reliably break even a non-invested Slowking. Furthermore, Mandibuzz can be comfortably EV'd to take two Draco Meteors from full HP and still be physically bulky for other threats. Celesteela takes 38.4 - 45.7% from Mystical Fire, so not only would Latios have to chip it a lot and deny its recovery, but also predict its switch-in every single time. It will also have to predict a max-HP Jirachi's switch-in in order to break it; otherwise, that's an easy U-turn from Jirachi for a lot of chip damage. Also, it can't 2HKO Assault Vest Tangrowth and SpD Aegislash, and Chansey.
  • Draco Meteor + Psyshock + Thunderbolt: Breaking Slowking and Mandibuzz becomes much easier, but max-HP Jirachi is going to wall it pretty easily, as well as bulky Excadrill, which is probably going to be its best set. Similar to the previous set, Latios won't be able to break a healthy Assault Vest Tangrowth, Aegislash, and Chansey.
  • Draco Meteor + Mystical Fire + Thunderbolt: Even though Latios won't have a STAB Psychic-type move, fewer Pokemon will be able to wall it, but Latios will lose a spammable move and it will be forced to be precise with its prediction in order to work. Similar to the previous sets, Latios won't be able to break a healthy Assault Vest Tangrowth and SpD Aegislash and Chansey.
TL;DR: You can get away with not predicting correctly but Latios will be walled by many more Pokemon.

It will probably be the best on Hyper Offense teams, but it will get worn down and revenge killed so quickly (we also can't reliably support it with Screens now that Light Clay is banned!). The following explanations assume you've managed to get to +1 SpA, which as stated earlier, won't be that easy:
  • Draco Meteor + Psyshock + Mystical Fire: Even at +1, Draco Meteor doesn't OHKO SpD Slowking, and it isn't even a guaranteed OHKO on just max-HP Slowking. Mandibuzz can be comfortably EV'd to live a +1 Draco Meteor and mind-games between Roost on the 2nd Calm Mind or just attack will take place. Assault Vest Tangrowth isn't OHKOed by any of its boosted moves, and neither SpD Aegislash and Chansey are. Chansey is a bit tricky though because +1 Psyshock can be a 2HKO and the best it can do back is Toxic or Thunder Wave Latios.
  • Draco Meteor + Psyshock + Thunderbolt: Breaking Jirachi, bulky Excadrill, and SpD Aegislash is a pain. You can also not OHKO Assault Vest Tangrowth with a boosted attack.
  • Draco Meteor + Mystical Fire + Thunderbolt: This might be the best moveset for this set because Latios doesn't need to spam any of its moves. However, it can't break Chansey and you can't OHKO Assault Vest Tangrowth, max-HP Jirachi, and SpD Aegislash.
TL;DR: GL living for more than 3 turns, but can be good on HO teams.

To sum everything up and to add more (because I haven't even elaborated on how many Pokemon can revenge kill it), the following Pokemon have the potential to make sure Latios doesn't get out of hand:


This ended up being much longer and time-consuming than I thought. Generally saying, any further action, or even consideration, needs to be taken in about a week or two to see how the current metagame plays. Furthermore, because Latios will probably be one of the best Pokemon in the metagame if it drops, I think that its potential drop should be handled via a suspect test and not via a quickvote.

TL;DR: suspect test Latios in a week or two.
 
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Alrighty now, it's been more than 24 hours since the shifts, time to throw in my ten cents about potential UUBL retests.

:ss/terrakion: :ss/zapdos-galar:

These two, in my opinion, are the most likely UUBL mons to be healthy. They're both very similar- both are Fighting-type breakers with immense power and somewhat poor Speed tiers who struggle to deal with the current top Steel-types in the tier. Like BigFatMantis said earlier, the tier is trending towards a more fatter/bulkier playstyle, and one of these two might be just what we need to keep the balance in check. I personally think that Galarian Zapdos would be the less broken of the two since its coverage moves aren't as good (it having the mediocre Stomping Tantrum over Terrak's EQ) and it isn't as powerful or fast as Terrak, but I wouldn't be mad if Terrak was the one we let in instead.

:ss/hawlucha:
The most recent returnee to UUBL, Hawlucha could be another good choice for a retest. Like Gapdos, it struggles to deal with a lot of the fatter builds, which may keep it viable. Lucha does have one thing that may make it broken- its unparalled sweeping potential. Support from Tapu Bulu could easily turn this thing into a monster and may make it too much to handle. Because of that, I'm going to go ahead and say that Lucha shouldn't be retested for now.

:ss/arctozolt:
Yeah, yeah, I know what you're thinking, we just banned this thing. But now that Alolatales has risen to OU, maybe we can give it another chance? Abomasnow, Vanilluxe, and Aurorus are nowhere near as good of Hail setters as Alolatales and might prevent the Zolt from doing its job as well. It's probably still a bit much, but I think it might be fun :3

:ss/latios:
I wasn't planning on talking about this thing, but since Amane Misa brought it up I might as well too. I think that Latios would still be unhealthy for the tier. Its breaking power is just so much better compared to its sister and would make it pretty broken IMO. Would like hearing what other people have to say here.

:ss/thundurus:
We just banned this thing, and not much has changed since then to warrant unbanning it. It can stay in UUBL for now.

:ss/alakazam: :ss/blaziken: :ss/dracozolt: :ss/gengar:
These four should not be touched with a ten-foot pole. The only one I could maybe see being a smidge healthy is Dracozolt, but its great coverage and Hustle still makes it way too broken. Keep them in UUBL.

That's it from me! Curious to see what you guys have to say about what UUBL Pokemon can be retested. Have a good day y'all!
 

Luirromen

#BringScizorBack
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I have seen some people talking about potential UUBL pokemon that could be re tested like how is being done with Latias at the time Im writing this post, and I wanted give my opinion about it and also on the new drops and their influence on the metagame.

In my opinion, we shouldn't re test more UUBL pokemon until the new metagame has completely developed.

What I mean with this, is that we should wait until the metagame develops to have the option to re test more UUBL pokemon. Why? Well, this makes easier for the tier target what are the most threatning and potential banworthy pokemon on the metagame, instead of throwing a ton of broken picks at the same time, have more UUBL pokemon re tested would potentially just take a longer time to balance the metagame, I want to compare it with the tier shifts of November 2020 that we got more than 30 new pokemon, this can be some exageration, but alongside new good additions like amoonguss, salamence, celesteela, etc, there were also insanly broken threats that got either quickbanned or rised to OU by usage (like Volcarona, Blacephalon and Tapu Lele despite didnt get banned and naturally rised, would had been banned anyways). My point is that throwing even more pokemon the procces of banning potential banworthy pokemon would take even longer, and would be better to re test just some of them little by little, as it also forces less pressure on the teambuilder if you want to check x threat without being weak to other threat.


Im completely agree with unbanning Latias as the meta has develop a lot since it was banned, and In my opinion was the least banworthy of all the suspect tested pokemon of the meta and brings a ton of tools to the meta, and I think is the best way to start re testing uubl pokemon for the future, and not free most of them at once.


Now, talking about the new drops and their potential influence on the meta, I will talk about them from the one I think is the best one to the one to the worst (I dont think any of them are "bad" but idk how to explain it lol)





Excadrill

:excadrill: :ss/excadrill: :excadrill:



The mole is just amazing, not only is an amazing offensive threat, but also is probably in my eyes the best utility steel type that this tier ever had, this pokemon can just bring to the team a lote of roles, it offers a stealth rocks setter, a hazard removal that keeps your own hazards with Rapid Spin and is not an easy task to spinblock since all the spinblockers of the tier wont like to take a STAB Earthquake, provides an electric inmunity, a poison inmunity, has a cuadrupal rock resit and T-Spikes inmunity making it a even better hazard removal, and can check a huge amount of threats like Nihilego, Jirachi, Glowbro, etc. Offensive sets in sand build are good in my eyes, but utility sets with support moves like Rapid Spin, Toxic, Stealth Rocks are the best in my opinion, as it match ups pretty well against the deffogers of the tier and it doesn't need attack investments, as it already has a natural really good attack stat of 135, you can put evs on its bulk to maximize the list of pokemon you can switch in to. Its too early to give a ranking in the VR to the new picks, but I feel Excadrill is really easy to slap on teams and covers a ton of roles and can easily be a A+ rank or even S rank on the future.



Hydreigon

:hydreigon: :ss/hydreigon: :hydreigon:




You need a speed control that is also inmune to spikes making easier to constantly keep switching against Skarmory/Roserade match ups? There it is Scarf Hydreigon. You want a special wallbreaker? There it is LO and Specs Hydreigon. You want an offensive stallbreaker? There it is Taunt Hydreigon. You want a set up sweeper on the special side? I guess Hydreigon is an option...... and the list goes on. Hydreigon is an incredible versatile pick, and even on the eyes on some people is too much for the tier to handle, I can undestand this since yes, the fairy types on this tier sucks except from Primarina, as azumarill has no reliable recovery and Tapu Bulu doesn't match up well vs most standar builds, Togekiss is really good and has reliable recovery but tends to be used to handle more than 1 pokemon of the opposite team and can be overwhelm and lose Boots is a death sentence, maybe some more niche picks like Sylveon can rise up now as an answer. I think NP Hydreigon (the one that looks the most threatning) isn't actually that hard to play around in practice, this is just a suposition but Im gonna explain my points. Hydreygon has a base 98 speed, meaning that without a Choice Scarf it is outspeed by a huge portion of the offensive metagame, and this set has to always run NP and Dark Pulse, being the 3° slot commonly Flash Cannon, but the 4° slot is the hard deccision, as if you run roost, you will bee more consistent against more balance and fat builds, but you will pretty much get walled by things like Celesteela and Komoo since you are not running a dragon move, also be aware of getting poisoned in a 1v1 vs AV tang (Tang can slap on fighthing coverage to match up better tho), with fire coverage you wont get any problem with any steel type, but you keep getting walled by komoo, and you have to keep your leftovers safe for the whole game of yu will lose on longer games, taunt is more useful against fat and stall builds, but you face the same problem of only relie on leftovers as a recovery and be walled by komoo, and last, you can run a dragon move for the after mentioned komoo and have an stronger stab to click after a boost, but you get the same longevity problem, all this variation have something in common and is getting pretty much easy revenge killed by other offensive threats. This is just a suposition, maybe Im wrong and Hydra is actually too much to handle, just the time will answer this. But overall, this pokemon can also cover a ton of roles.



Latias

:latias: :ss/latias: :latias:




Latias is back on a metagame that seems to being able to handle her way easier, but will keep being a potent pick and to be considered on the teambuilder. Latias is the best Scarf user in the tier at least for me, not only because is the fastest one, but because it has acces to Trick so it wont be useless on mus that Scarf is not neccesary, and has the fastest Healing Wish if you are runnig it on more offensive oriented teams. Latias can also make similars roles as Hydreigon, can be a wallbreaker with LO and Choice Specs, and can be a good win condition and late game cleaner with Calm Mind, being the fastest CM user in the meta just behing Raikou. Latias has also some utility moves like the after mentioned Trick and Healing Wish, but also Twave, Defog, Roar and Reflect/Light Screen, and also is a few of the actual viable pokemon that can run a BoltBeam set (Thunderbolt and Ice Beam for the ones that don't know the meaning). Latias can naturally check a huge part of the metagmae, especially special attackers, like Thundurus, Nihilego and the Nidos. Latias natural bulk also let it sponge some hits without too much investments, like Mienshao's Uturn. I think Latias has a ton of stuff to offer to the metagame, and maybe some variants that are non discovered yet.



Skarmory

:skarmory: :ss/skarmory: :skarmory:




Just the existance of this pokemon affect the viability of most physical attackers, as it has an inmense bulk on the physical side, and unlike Celesteela, it doesnt really care about getting Knocked Off as it has instant recovery on Roost. This is an actual easier to slap on teams spiker as it can cover a lot of threats, it is also incredible versatile as it cant only be a spiker, it also has acces to Stealth Rocks, can be a defogger, a phazer with Whirliwind, or even a hard counter to any boosting physical threat with Iron Defense. The existance of skarmory also affects the viability of other pokemon that otherwise wouldn't be considered on a serius match most of the time, and that is Magneton, just the idea of getting ride of Skarm with Magneton is meta defining, as it enables threats like DD Mence, SD Excadrill, etc, go crazy. Skarmory can also potentially run a lead set with the classic Custap Berry, this set has to be worry about some potential removers tho.



Slowking

:slowking: :ss/slowking: :slowking:




Slowking makes a return as well, and doesn't seem to rise to OU again, Slowking has acces to one of the most broken combinations of SS, Future Port (Future Sight and Teleport), King can sponge hits from most of the special attackers of the meta without so many investments, and can regen back with Regenerator. I like the roles that this pokemon bring to the meta, and I really dont think FuturePort is actually banworthy, but I feel like this pokemon in the past was the one to go for most people as a glue and used to over relie on it and so, it was pretty easy getting lured or even used as a fodder. The existance of this pokemon, and Latias as well, kill most of the viability of Keldeo, I expect Keldeo to start running sets with Toxic just for this 2. Slowking as well pairs pretty easy with other Regenerators and also with Skarmory, as it covers its Fire Weakness and in return, skarmory can handle with Dark and Grass types that can be a trouble for Slowking.



Swampert

:swampert: :ss/swampert: :swampert:




If you are like me, that hates people that brings on their teams 5/6 pokemon with some sort of pivot move move, hey you are also as well going to hate swampert! Now being serius, Swampert is another bulky water for the tier that can provide rocks and can punish removers with status or just clicking Earthquake, It will defenitively face competition with Seismitoad, as both share similar roles, but Swampert has considerably higher attack stat and the ever annoying Flip Turn. SR sets seems really good, but I think Swampert's best potential comes with an offensive set with Choice Band, despite it gets hard walled by Washtom, it has the stats to make a good use of it as well as being capable to pivot while dealing massive damage with Flip Turn, pretty cool mon to use.


Mandibuzz
:mandibuzz: :ss/mandibuzz: :mandibuzz:


After so many time holding OU together since the beggining of SS, Mandibuzz finally retired from OU to drop here in UU, Mandibuzz gives some cool suport tools like Defog, Knock Off and Toxic, acces to Foul Play and being bulky in general gives it a strong mu vs HO builds, also is inmune to Amoonguss's Spore thanks to Overcoat. Also comming from a defensive pokemon, it actually has a really good speed tier of base 80 (same as Chandelure or Mamoswine just to make a compararion). All this atributes makes Mandibuzz look like a really good mon to use, and yes, in fact it is, but as it happened to her in OU, I expect it to be like Slowking, people will over relie on it and it will get easily lured as the meta progress, since it will try to cover so many stuffs. Despite being inmune to Spore, it has to watch out of getting Poisoned via Sludge Bomb or catch a Toxic in general or it will burn Roost PPs faster, as well has to be aware of not losing its boots or it will be least consistent. This pokemon is good but really easy to exploit its weakness, making a pick that has to be played with the correct support.
That is all for today, happy new meta! :]
 
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Hey, so remember when Terrak was banned because its CCs annihilated everything? Let's talk about Mienshao.

:ss/mienshao:
Mienshao @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Rock Slide / Poison Jab

252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 142-168 (42.5 - 50.2%) -- 89.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 153-181 (37.8 - 44.8%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 199-235 (50.5 - 59.6%) -- 84.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowking: 161-192 (40.8 - 48.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao U-turn vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Amoonguss: 90-107 (20.8 - 24.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

^Negates Amoong's Regenerator with Rocks up.

Yeah.

With Buzzwole now gone from the tier, LO Mienshao has lost perhaps its only consistent counter. With Regenerator granting it the power to throw off LO-boosted Knock-Offs and CCs with impunity, as well as negating chip damage from Toxic and entry hazards, Mienshao can consistently provide both extremely good support and solid wallbreaking power, while not requiring much support of its own.

This is before factoring in its solid speed tier. Now that defensive giants Slowking and Skarmory have returned, Mienshao doesn't necessarily need to run a scarf to check and threaten out the likes of Lycanroc-D, Keldeo and Latias. Instead, Life Orb allows it to switch up moves as it requires and maintain momentum for its team.

This is all without taking into consideration Slowking's Future Sight + Teleport combo further enabling Mienshao.

With that weight off my chest, here are some brief thoughts on the new drops:

:excadrill:
Gives us an offensive Steel mon that also bodies the Rotoms. It's also another check to Nihilego, which is always welcome. Additionally, it just destroys UU's common spinblockers. Might not be sweeping much what with Skarm being back, but its utility is excellent. Definitely going to be a common sight.

:hydreigon:
Dangerous threat right here. A bit slow, but it blasts through... everything except for fairies, basically. I'd expect an uptick in Sylveon usage, but then with Excadrill in the tier now, maybe not. Primarina, though. Resttalk might be pretty good in the new meta.

:mandibuzz:
It's weird. There's no other way to put it. It's not something I'd ever expect needing to put on a team, because it doesn't bring much to the table that isn't already here. Bulky Defogger with Roost? Skarm, Mence and Moltres got it covered. Bulky Knock Off user? Tangrowth. Slow U-Turn? Slowking has Teleport. STAB Foul Play? Umbreon has that too, only it doesn't get crippled by Knock Off.

It's unique in that it can do all these things, though. And it's extremely bulky. I'd say there's a 80% chance that one day, someone will uncover its potential and make a team with it that just completely dismantles the meta. That day will be glorious.

:skarmory:
You know him. You love him. The Great Wall is back to counter every single physical attacker in the tier! Except Zydog. And Mienshao. Still. Sturdy into Whirlwind into Spikes is going to haunt my dreams once again.

Seriously though, Skarm is one of those mons that defines a tier. It's one of the few Pokemon that can safely remove hazards against Excadrill, and also one of the only reliable Spikes setters we have. Nice to have you back, Skarm. I shall take great pleasure in devising ways to utterly destroy you.

:slowking:
Bulky water (with recovery!). It's always good to have another option on that front. Teleport and Future Sight are going to be a chore to defend against though.

:swampert:
Water-Ground type. Again, always good to have another one. Excellent bulk and decent matchup against defoggers, as well as a slow Flip Turn, means this guy's going to have a solid niche. Don't know how well it'll do without reliable recovery, but hey, Kommo-o seemed to do just fine.

That about wraps it up. Two defensive staples have returned, bringing with them two excellent offensive mons and two as of yet unproven defensive ones. Over the horizon, the storm that is Zydog looms again with the departure of Buzzwole. Meanwhile, Regieleki cries itself to sleep after being styled on by the two new Ground types. It looks desperately to the future, but it can see nothing but darkness. And RU.

The meta, that ever-shifting beast, stirs once again. What new innovations will happen this time? I look forward to finding out.
 

Twilight

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I shall be talking about some of the things I have been using and believe have gotten better with shifts. Everyone has talked about new drops, so I won't go into that extensively + I've expressed my opinions about them openly on Discord. I took a new alt and just tested around with a few things till I got mid 1500s. Took me 70+ games but that's okay...


Hatterene is the best way to shut down Skarmory setting up Spikes, which I think are a very important aspect in the tier from laddering. You stone wall Skarmory besides from the few that may carry Iron Head, but most have been Body Press or Brave Bird as of testing. Hatterene also acts as a good check to most Latias sets and can be an emergency check to Hydreigon. I've only been using CM as a wincon but I reckon AV has its merits.


Noivern @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower
- U-turn
- Roost

A lot of teams I went against relied on fast Pokemon such as Latias or Azelf as their Speed control and in those games this Pokemon is really annoying to deal with. It's capable of revenge killing a lot of these potential threats and generating momentum with U-turn on stuff it can't break like Slowking and Primarina. I don't think Salamence gives it as much competition anymore when it comes to being an offensive special attacker. I suggest people give Noivern a try.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1427886532-anzky0sdn2zr8ro2c2jd1au1wskf5h8pw - There team wasn't that well equipped for Noivern but showing it putting in work.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1428569510-bv0u81ejd5l350qb1cjtkgivif4e554pw - Noivern with Knock support was capable of putting in enough work for SD Bulu to clean up.


Golisopod @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Emergency Exit
EVs: 228 HP / 252 Atk / 28 Spe
Adamant Nature
- First Impression
- Liquidation
- Spikes
- Knock Off

I was messing around with this on ladder a fair amount and it is a decent Spikes setter that checks Excadrill lacking Rock Slide, which I only saw on Choice locked and Sand Rush sets. First Impression is nice for Latias and Hydreigon. Knock Off is just a useful move to punish Mandibuzz, Salamence, Amoonguss, etc. I don't think it's anything crazy per se but I believe it is a viable Spike setter.


Here is the team I was messing with. It's fun to use, though definitely flawed against certain things like DD Mence. Keep Mandi healthy or take the L. Mandibuzz is a pretty necessary glue to pivot into most things then you just have to rely on offensively pivoting and pressuring other shit.


Tapu Bulu @ Life Orb
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Horn Leech
- Close Combat
- Darkest Lariat

I think Bulu is really good rn. It serves as a check to Latias and Hydreigon and is an offensive Grass-type capable of nuking past a lot of the defensive staples we got such as Mandibuzz, Skarmory, and Slowking. CC hits Hydreigon, Skarm, and Mandi, while Lariat breaks Latias and Aegislash. I have found this to be the best coverage for SD. Ofc it still has other checks it struggles with like Amoonguss and Moltres but it'll always have bad 4MSS unless it's Choice locked. Bulu feels exceptionally good to use from practice.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1427866546-jj1391c2cticieuhjhu0t5cr4omvpktpw - A replay of Bulu breaking and taking adv of its coverage


Even with all the removers we got, I think a lot of them suck as Defoggers. Mandibuzz would rather run other coverage for example. Most of the time I resort to Rapid Spinners. Excadrill is a good one but it can't pressure Skarmory. Tentacruel can spin on Skarm and force it out + it has a decent enough matchup against Roserade. It helps combat the Primarina and Celesteela usage too. Knock Off is also amazing as always. I've been using it with Wish support from
. Amane Misa has been hyping her up and she's pretty good from testing.


Flare's post above highlights LO Mienshao, I also agree it is an insane wallbreaker though hard to build with. I do think people should explore Galarian Slowbro if they need a check to it though, as it cannot get through that reliably without Spikes support. Conkeldurr also feels like another winner with Buzzwole leaving and it being able to nuke past Skarmory. Mach Punch is a great tool for Excadrill and Hydreigon. It being nigh unwallable is also nice for it. It's still slow as fck ofc, but it's scary to play against.

These are just the main things that have stood out to me, there are definitely more things that have gotten better, share so I can use them :blobwizard:
 

Katy

You should know I'm never gonna change!
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Hey,

I want to discuss some sets about the three-headed Dragon-type Pokemon, which dropped in Hydreigon (due to a usage stat drop), as I feel like it have a lot of room and potential for a plethora of sets, due to the great power it possess and moreover the great typing it has.


These are sets, which I think could work in the metagame. :ss/hydreigon:

Choice Specs:
Hydreigon @
1633343026765.png

Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Flamethrower / Flash Cannon
- U-turn​

With 125 SpA and a solid Speed tier of 98, I think Hydreigon can greatly act as a special wallbreaker with Choice Specs-boosted STAB Attacks in Draco Meteor and Dark Pulse. Its coverage can consist of Flamethrower or Flash Cannon depending on the need for the rest of its team. The issue with this set however is, that Primarina and Chansey can still easily come in and check it. However in the former case offensive Primarina still dislikes a boosted Flash Cannon, as it's still neutral towards it: 252 SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Primarina: 113-133 (37.4 - 44%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock. VoltTurn-Cores could easily work with this set.

Choice Scarf:
Hydreigon @
1633342987330.png

Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Flamethrower / Defog
- U-turn​

Due to its initial solid Speed tier, this Pokemon is capable of revengekilling a plethora of Pokemon and to pressure them with ease. It can also fit Defog on this set, so it can act as a fast Defogger in this tier. It can run U-turn to forme a VoltTurn-Core with the likes of Rotom-Wash, Rotom-Heat, Jirachi, or build up a core with the recently dropped Slowking, in which they can forme a great core to pressure and force progress due to Future Sight + Teleport. Slowking can also check Pokemon like Latias for it, and can eat up a Draco Meteor or two from it.

Nasty Plot:
Hydreigon @
1633343056475.png

Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Nasty Plot
- Roost​

Nasty Plot Hydreigon can easily break through alot of passive teams with a Life Orb- and Nasty Plot-boosted Draco Meteor and Dark Pulse, however this set can be cut off by Primarina, but it still could work with the likes of Slowking, Tapu Bulu, Rotom-Wash, or Zarude to force an easy progress and to counteract to its checks. It can also work well with a great Fighting-type in Mienshao, as Mienshao is capable of dealing a hefty amount of damage during the game.

Honorable Mentions:
Belch could be an alternative to lure in Primarina, Azumarill, and Tapu Bulu to OHKO them right on spot. A supportive set with Leftovers + Defog can also be ran. On the Nasty Plot set 3 Attacks can also be run to force more progress. Superpower can also be used, if a team desperately wants to get rid off Chansey immediately.

Checks to Hydreigon (these are Pokemon which can Either switch into it Or revengekill it):
Offensive:
:primarina: :azumarill: :keldeo: :cobalion: :mamoswine: :zygarde-10%: :latias:
Defensive: :primarina: :chansey: :mandibuzz:

Hope you had fun reading this and perhaps these sets find usage, I feel like they have a lot of potential and I think there is even more room to enhance its sets. Have a great day everyone! :)
 
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