★ np SS UU Stage 2 - Here Comes The Sun (Gyarados & Primarina BANNED)

[Moutemoute]

Bless Twilight for its post which allows me to do another one without doing a double-post..

Choice Specs Espeon

Espeon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
- Shadow Ball

This one was brought by Hogg on the council's discord chat and while I was perplexed about it, I have to admit that Choice Specs Espeon is a great tool in the current metagame. While it doesn't have the Normal-type of Indeedee neither the amazing Fairy-type of Gardevoir, it has significant advantages compared to these. Indeed, Espeon is way faster than Indeedee and Gardevoir which allows it to pack a Choice Specs while still being able to outspeed some common threats such as Durant, Heliolisk or Morpeko. Espeon also hits harder than Indeedee or Gardevoir which allows it to pressure more Pokemon than the two others. Last but not least, Espeon brings an amazing utility to offensive team thanks to Magic Bounce. Even without an extra type, Dazzling Gleam still hits pretty hard bulky Drapion for a solid ~40%.

SD Lucario

Lucario @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Meteor Mash
- Extreme Speed

SD Lucario is in my opinion way better now than before. It's also a great teammate for Ghost-type and Psychic-type which struggle to beat Dark-types such as Umbreon or Drapion. I found it really good when it's paired with either Choice Specs Espeon, Shell Smash Polteageist, Reuniclus or even Chandelure as it can come freely on Foul Play or Knock Off. Its typing is also quite amazing since it allows it to punish Umbreon + Weezig-Galar while being able to handle some common priorities such as Ice Shard or First Impression.

Lead Duraludon

Duraludon @ Focus Sash / Life Orb / Sitrus Berry / Shuca Berry
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Steel Beam
- Thunderbolt / Thunder
- Dark Pulse / Draco Meteor

This is another Pokemon I've been enjoying recently. Lead Duraludon is a nice Pokemon to use since it can prevent opponent to use Rapid Spin / Defog thanks to Steel Beam which allows it to KO itself. Thunderbolt / Thunder is in my opinion mandatory if you want to be able to pressure bulky Water-types (aka Mantine / Milotic / Vaporeon) which are insanely good right now. Last slot really depends of what you need. Dark Pulse is nice to pressure Doublade while Draco Meteor is a useful nuke. Even if this set is in the shadow of its Choice Specs set, I believe it can be nice especially in HO since it provides to the team a fast Stealth Rock user which is able to pressure Defog Weezing-Galar or Mamoswine.

Heavy-Duty Boots is in my opinion the best item in the game. It's so good that you actually doesn't need as much as before Entry Hazards or a way to get rid of them. Sticky Web has been nerfed pretty hard as well as Entry Hazards in general because of this item. On the other hand, some Pokemon have been blessed by this item, especially Pokemon which are weak to Stealth Rock like Golisopod, Noivern, Avalugg etc.. I firmly believe that you can slap Heavy-Duty Boots on any kind of Pokemon and it will always be useful at one time or another

 

[The Amphy]

I've really enjoyed this metagame after the three brokens were banned, both in the ladder and the builder. Actually managed to top the ladder for the first time (yay me) and just wanted to share some cool mons I've been using.

Diggersby @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Mega Kick/Body Slam
- Quick Attack
- Swords Dance

The bunny might be the next broken. I used to use banded which hits like a truck, but the big drawback is that a lot of what is popular right now is immune to one of its stabs (noivern, weezing-g, doublade, polteageist) meaning its quite prediction reliant. Its still a good set, getting momentum with U-turn and destroying grounded teams but its definitially not its best set. That role falls to its SD + Silk Scarf set. This set makes Diggersby much harder to play around as you can SD on the switch and blow back their defensive mon with a EQ/Mega Kick/Body Slam. This set allows Diggersby to punish the countermeasurement to its banded set which can make it a guessing game when you face it. +2 Silk Scarf boosted Quick Attack is also no joke and allows it to combat faster offensive mons as well.

(DMG calculator doesn't have Mega Kick for some reason so I just altered Body Slams power to 120).

+2 252+ Atk Silk Scarf Huge Power Diggersby Body Slam vs. 212 HP / 252+ Def Weezing-Galar: 385-454 (118.8 - 140.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Silk Scarf Huge Power Diggersby Body Slam vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 390-460 (92.8 - 109.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery

Inteleon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spd
Timid/Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Surf
- U-Turn

I've been using scarf Inteleon which is a really nice revenge killer, momentum grabber and late game cleaner and I'm honestly surprised I haven't seen more of it. It's a also a nice countermeasurement to webs even though that isn't the best play style right now. Due to its blistering speed I've been playing around with using modest now when Scarfgar is no longer a thing. The extra power is really nice but it can be annoying to be outsped by mons such as +2 Cloyster.

Centiskorch @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Coil
- Fire Lash
- Leech Life
- Power Whip

Coil Centiskorch is honestly a straight up beast. I used to use the specially defensive rest talk set (sort of like a poor mans rest talk Primarina) which gave some nice results but I needed something more offensive so I tried the set TSR mentioned and it's been doing wonders for me. It's an awesome balance breaker due to having 100% accurate Power Whips after a coil to bop all the popular bulky grounds and waters used right now. Fire Lash allows it to power through annoying defensive mons such as galarian Weezing and Leech Life is nice for recovery. The biggest issue for it is that Noivern is everywhere right now which it can't do much to. Another thing I've noticed while using it is that it's a nice soft check to Lucario as well. I don't think max speed is always neccessary so you can also speed creep what you need to outspeed and put the rest in HP.

(some replays)

Centiskorch gets a mini sweep and breaks through my opponents team. Would have gotten another kill if I had Power Whipped on the incoming Hippo which was a no draw back play.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1046371371

Breaks through my opponents defensive core of Weezing-G and Umbreon and checks Lucario as well.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1047011224

Centiskorch sweep
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1049334367-clhyapd5npetzvgugb6q8wet2sog1h6pw

 

[Feliburn]

Heyo guys, I've been giving UU a shot lately and building and laddering has been as fun as building and laddering can be, so not that much fun but still enjoyable.

Thanks to yeezyknows I've been trying out Specs Gardevoir and this pokemon is just unfair. Considering the primary steel type is Doublade and the poison types used are Weezing and Drapion, this pokemon just abuses the fact that all these mons have really weak sp def and is able to tear through teams way too easily. I've even had the liberty of using Modest nature in some games and I manage to get away with it due to the few mons you actually miss on outspeeding or tying with (fun part is mons like Mamoswine and Chandelure still beat you) but that's just experimenting, not saying it's the better nature. Anyway this mon is crazy strong and abuses the common cores fairly well I think.

Just wanna make a quick sidenote at how antimeta Chandelure feels with all the Rhyperior Weezing going around, I'm not so sure on what set is the best cause I've seen all, from Scarf, Boots 4 atks, Sub CM, Specs, etc. And funnily enough, every set except scarf has felt v threatening, just not played right I feel. Def a mon to keep building with to see how good it actually is.

 

[Moutemoute]

Once again I'm here to talk about a bunch of Pokemon which are actually quite nice in the current metagame..

LO Sigilyph

Sigilyph @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost / Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Heat Wave
- Energy Ball / Air Slash

Sigilyph is another nice Psychic-type Pokemon in the tier which has its own niche compared to Gardevoir, Indeedee or Espeon. While it doesn't beat at all Umbreon, it can pressure thanks to its great coverage a lot of common defensive cores with Weezing-Galar, Rhyperior, bulky Water-types and even Steel-types like Doublade or Escavalier. Magic Guard LO is really nice since it offers some extra power to Sigilyph without the drawback. Personally I'm more toward Roost over Calm Mind since it allows Sigilyph to check some defensive threats. It's speed tier isn't the best but not the worst either since it's still able to outspeed threats like Lucario, Roserade or Drapion.

SD Toxicroak

Toxicroak @ Life Orb
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Gunk Shot
- Drain Punch
- Sucker Punch

Toxicroak is pretty similar to Heliolisk as a bulky Water-types check but it's also a great check to some current metagame trends like Toxic Spikes thanks to its Poison-type. On the other hand, its typing allows it to check effectively Drapion, Umbreon or Polteageist with Sucker Punch if its Focus Sash is broken. Like Lucario, Toxicroak paired pretty well with Psychic-types so feel free to test it !

Chandelure

Chandelure @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Shadow Ball
- Flamethrower / Fire Blast
- Energy Ball

Chandelure @ Leftovers / Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Shadow Ball
- Flamethrower

Chandelure @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire / Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick / Memento
- Shadow Ball
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower
- Energy Ball

Chandelure @ Choice Specs
Ability: Flash Fire / Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Overheat
- Fire Blast / Trick
- Energy Ball / Trick

While I was writing, Feliburn outspeeds me and did a quick post to talk about Chandelure and I have to agree that this Pokemon is quite amazing right now. Its coverage is insane to deal with and it can actually be played in many ways.. CM + 3 Attacks, SubCM, Scarf or Specs.. all this sets can be great and pretty hard to deal with. Chandelure finds a lot of opportunity to come on some defensive threats like Weezing-Galar, Bronzong or Avalugg. While it kinda struggles to break through Umbreon it can chip it with ease with Trick or Entry Hazard support.

Choice Band Haxorus

Haxorus @ Choice Band
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Close Combat
- First Impression

Not gonna lie, Choice Band Haxorus is hellah dumb right now.. This Pokemon doesn't have any switch-in and is able to pressure almost any defensive Pokemon in the tier. Outrage is free to spam once Fairy-types are gone since even Steel-type can be heavily dent by it and they also have to play around either Earthquake or Close Combat. Last but not least, First Impression is a really nice new tool to abuse and allows Haxorus to pick up some extra KO vs offensive teams.. Mold Breaker is freaking dumb on this thing..

 

[ScribbleScribble]

Pretty new to UU but this is a mon set I've had a lot of fun with and is a lot better than I first thought it would be initially:

Avalugg @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Body Press
- Rapid Spin
- Recover
- Iron Defense

Some Damage Calcs:

252 Atk Choice Band Mold Breaker Haxorus Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 148-175 (37.5 - 44.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Diggersby Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 145-172 (36.8 - 43.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Tsareena High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 186-220 (47.2 - 55.8%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO

Boots allow Avalugg to be an actual viable spinner, and Lugg's natural defensive bulk is so extremely high that it makes his weak defensive typing less important. Add Iron Defense, and it becomes basically unkillable if the opponents team has no more special attackers left. Of course its weak to special attackers but I've found that it pairs very well with a specially defensive Milotic, which also helps deal with Chandelure, this sets biggest threat.

 

[M1so]

Pretty new to UU but this is a mon set I've had a lot of fun with and is a lot better than I first thought it would be initially:

View attachment 219972

Avalugg @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Body Press
- Rapid Spin
- Recover
- Iron Defense

Some Damage Calcs:

252 Atk Choice Band Mold Breaker Haxorus Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 148-175 (37.5 - 44.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Diggersby Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 145-172 (36.8 - 43.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Tsareena High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 186-220 (47.2 - 55.8%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO

Boots allow Avalugg to be an actual viable spinner, and Lugg's natural defensive bulk is so extremely high that it makes his weak defensive typing less important. Add Iron Defense, and it becomes basically unkillable if the opponents team has no more special attackers left. Of course its weak to special attackers but I've found that it pairs very well with a specially defensive Milotic, which also helps deal with Chandelure, this sets biggest threat.

The problem with Avalugg in general is that it cant spin with Doublade running rampant, making its niche sort of obsolete. The problem with this set is that not only is it completely ineffective against Haze Milotic and Galar-Weezing (or gets shut down by Flamethrower/Offensive variants), it also is completely walled by all of the ghosts in the tier, so not only is it complete setup fodder to SD Doublade, it also brings in Chandelure for free, and you never want to have that monster being brought in for free. Mono-fighting coverage is just not it in this meta.

 

[yeezyknows]

https://pokepast.es/8b79d76f0573d04e

ok so i peaked ladder and i just wanted to share the love with my team that's been beasting and feasting a la chris smoove recently

This team is fairly standard, but with some core tweaks to certain mons that allow them to become pretty scary, tweaks that I'd like to share with you guys.

Specs Gardevoir

Gardevoir @ Choice Specs
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Psychic
- Psyshock
- Mystical Fire

I don't think i've seen a single specs garde on ladder thus far, which is honestly super surprising. it's been talked about in my super elite and swagged out private circles as a solid mon within the current meta, but this hasn't yet translated to ladder play as much as other mons, which is a shame.

Specs moonblast+mystical fire legitimately has zero switchins, but it's unlikely that you click mystical fire to begin with unless you're playing versus a zong or an av jah, both slightly suboptimal mons in general. You can change it to timid if chand becomes too overbearing for you, but i've found that the team does have adequate countermeasures to chand.

Modest allows you to muscle through mons like milotic, as the increased damage output is crucial towards breaking it 1v1.

shoutout to feli for posting when i started writing this post then quit halfway through then decided to post it

NP Mowtom

Rotom-Mow @ Meadow Plate
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Volt Switch
- Leaf Storm
- Protect

NP mowtom is an awesome breaker with a phenomenal speed tier for a setup mon in the current meta. Meadow plate provides you with a much needed boost in power, allowing you to OHKO umbreon at +4, among other things. You also go from a guaranteed eat with vaporeon to an 88% chance to OHKO unboosted. Protect allows you to safeguard yourself from pod's first impression while also having general scouting utility (s/o to hogg for telling me about it)

Ok so bb codes are unnecessary and annoying for me from this point on so i'm just gonna type out the remaining tweaks below:

- low kick as fourth move on weavile, gives you nice overall coverage, allows you to hit stuff like mamo, cloyster, jah, and luc.

- enough speed on pod to creep umbreon, most pods don't currently go that fast so you creep opposing pods as well

- shadow ball as fourth on weez, serves as a preventative measure for chandy which kinda dumpsters me otherwise. hits doublade as well.

- SD on rhy as fourth move for added breaking power. heavy slam is another option i've seen used which is also pretty neat.

all in all the team is pretty cool but u pretty much cant let chandy/rose in otherwise they'll just 6-0 so bop

hope u enjoy if u end up using it xo

- uu councillor yeezy k

 

[hushpuppy18]

View attachment 219928



https://pokepast.es/8b79d76f0573d04e

ok so i peaked ladder and i just wanted to share the love with my team that's been beasting and feasting a la chris smoove recently

This team is fairly standard, but with some core tweaks to certain mons that allow them to become pretty scary, tweaks that I'd like to share with you guys.

Specs Gardevoir

Gardevoir @ Choice Specs
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Psychic
- Psyshock
- Mystical Fire

I don't think i've seen a single specs garde on ladder thus far, which is honestly super surprising. it's been talked about in my super elite and swagged out private circles as a solid mon within the current meta, but this hasn't yet translated to ladder play as much as other mons, which is a shame.

Specs moonblast+mystical fire legitimately has zero switchins, but it's unlikely that you click mystical fire to begin with unless you're playing versus a zong or an av jah, both slightly suboptimal mons in general. You can change it to timid if chand becomes too overbearing for you, but i've found that the team does have adequate countermeasures to chand.

Modest allows you to muscle through mons like milotic, as the increased damage output is crucial towards breaking it 1v1.

shoutout to feli for posting when i started writing this post then quit halfway through then decided to post it

NP Mowtom

Rotom-Mow @ Meadow Plate
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Volt Switch
- Leaf Storm
- Protect

NP mowtom is an awesome breaker with a phenomenal speed tier for a setup mon in the current meta. Meadow plate provides you with a much needed boost in power, allowing you to OHKO umbreon at +4, among other things. You also go from a guaranteed eat with vaporeon to an 88% chance to OHKO unboosted. Protect allows you to safeguard yourself from pod's first impression while also having general scouting utility (s/o to hogg for telling me about it)

Ok so bb codes are unnecessary and annoying for me from this point on so i'm just gonna type out the remaining tweaks below:

- low kick as fourth move on weavile, gives you nice overall coverage, allows you to hit stuff like mamo, cloyster, jah, and luc.

- enough speed on pod to creep umbreon, most pods don't currently go that fast so you creep opposing pods as well

- shadow ball as fourth on weez, serves as a preventative measure for chandy which kinda dumpsters me otherwise. hits doublade as well.

- SD on rhy as fourth move for added breaking power. heavy slam is another option i've seen used which is also pretty neat.

all in all the team is pretty cool but u pretty much cant let chandy/rose in otherwise they'll just 6-0 so bop

hope u enjoy if u end up using it xo

- uu councillor yeezy k

I've been using this team on the ladder and have been struggling vs durant and too a lesser extenet duraludon, what pokemon from the team would you suggest switching in

 

[yeezyknows]

I've been using this team on the ladder and have been struggling vs durant and too a lesser extenet duraludon, what pokemon from the team would you suggest switching in

Hey yeah Durant is always going to be problematic for this build and duraludon as well, albeit to a lesser extent. Honestly if you see a Durant, you’re probably going to lead Rhyperior and pray that iron head either dodges or doesn’t flinch, then chip it with earthquake so that weavile can either kill it or chip it further with throat chop. You’re probably going to lose a mon regardless though unless you get favorable misses. It sucks, but Durant can really mess up Bulky Offenses in the current meta. Pray for misses, sorry I don’t have more direct counterplay.

As for duraludon, I haven’t found it to be that much of a problem, but it can be a little annoying to face. My recommendation is to try to not let it in for free, and/or get Rhyperior in safely vs it. You should eat at least one, and sometimes two flash cannons depending on the opposing set, then do ~90 back with earthquake.

You’re right in that both of these mons are problematic for the build, but I would say both matchups aren’t impossible.

Enjoy the team xo

 

[TheDirtyRed]

As for duraludon, I haven’t found it to be that much of a problem, but it can be a little annoying to face. My recommendation is to try to not let it in for free, and/or get Rhyperior in safely vs it. You should eat at least one, and sometimes two flash cannons depending on the opposing set, then do ~90 back with earthquake.

Just want to point out that LO Steel Beam will OHKO Rhyperior, so that's something to be wary about.
252 SpA Life Orb Duraludon Steel Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 435-515 (100.2 - 118.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I dunno how common LO or specs steel beam is on duraladon, although I think it's amazing on suicide lead.

 

[Master Chief]

Hey so I've been building some UU recently and I think I've had some p cool ideas for some sets and structures so I wanted to share them here especially since I've been reading a lot of posts from UUers to get a better idea of the meta and what could potentially be cool to build around and use. The quality of this thread is really high as well so big props to the council and community for keeping this part of the forums really active and engaging for players. The only slightly disappointing thing is with all the new changes pokemon wants to introduce over the coming year, it becomes extremely hard to get attached to any metagame and I have no clue how UU will look like in a couple of months but at least for now I find it decently fun to play and get early USM vibes from it which made me gravitate more towards it. I also almost peaked but in my last game lost to a icicle crash flinch so I'll say that 73% of the time I would have been able to post my peak here x.x

https://pokepast.es/100a9a71669b3f3e


This was a team I initially used quite a bit and I think which other people copied. I used this throughout the Alpha tour and won every round barring the semis where I got quite unlucky in the end game in a situation where I otherwise would have won. A lot of people in this thread sorta were saying fat balance wasn't great but at least for me this team was my way of disproving that notion and I think certain fat balance structures still have the capacity to succeed in this meta particularly thematics ones like hazard stack or what not rather than do nothing teams. I wanted to try raj and vap w a fat balance sorta outlook and this team served me well the whole of the tour. The reuniclus is the one mon that went through some set changes since initially it was slow colbur focus blast into then using psychic and focus blast into using thunder which to me is the much more superior set. The speed evs are to creep milotic when parad plus some other things which sorta puts the 1v1 in your favour if you do manage to get them parad since they have to keep breaking through paralysis, healing and hazing.

https://pokepast.es/3f30185cdc5c62ec


The initial idea of this team was actually making use of eject pack properly and so I tried to use eject pack duraludon into sirfetchd which is a really potent combo if used correctly. One of the most common switchins to duraludon is milotic since without specs it can't really break it but being able to eject out into sirfetchd when milo is chunked after draco in one turn leads to all sorts of nasty for the opponent. The issue will always be if they have a weezing or something relatively ok switching into sirfetchd so u probably want to time this right but duraludon also threatens out weezing so they both make a relatively nice pairing. The other thing I wanted to highlight is the weezing set. I love weezing and its adaptability but no one here has posted a dual status set which to me it can use really effectively. There are a lot of cases where the opponent wants to make a midground to scout for toxic since they don't wanna hard their milo into toxic but if u reveal wisp then they'll have no fear of switching their bulky water in. The converse works for steels to since if you reveal toxic the assumption is that doublade is a relatively risk-free switch but u can wisp it and cripple it for the rest of the game. Being able to in some situations choose which status you inflict on a team can allow you to enter the driver's seat in a game and something I really liked. The other weezing set I often used was babiri berry fire blast inspired from pak cuz fuck broken ant

Another fun set:
https://pokepast.es/039409fb9b267722

Imagine those umbreons that now try to click yawn lmao...

A few other of my personal takes on the meta:
- Rocks are still mandatory to me. Yea boots is a thing now but just to make progress vs defensive cores and get necessary chip they're still incredibly useful. Given how many levitate users are in the tier as well: zong, rotom, weezing i'd be more inclined to value rocks over spikes especially since there are only a few good users of the latter move.
- As best you can, run a tspike absorber on every team since they're very good in this offensive meta
- You don't need fog/spin anymore if your team is momentum grabbing
- Durant is broken but sucks, train it before entering battle
- Milotic is the best mon in the tier not doublade. To me doublade has been much easier to stop and wall and longevity is also an issue with it. Milotic is the best mixed tier in the wall and the sheer amount of situations it can just sit and wall a team are immense especially with the reduced knock and toxic distribution. It's also not particularly kind to switch into since it can run ice beam quite freely now. Along those lines I think it'll be worse when Home comes out.
- Haxorus with choice band has no switch ins, it legitmately 2hkos the entire tier even avalugg and I wouldn't be shy to possibly suspecting it given the fact that it can run 4 sets pretty reliably and guessing which one it's running can force teams to play rather awkwardly
- Garde and Chandelure are trucks and people should explore them more particularly since they offer great utility
- Reuniclus is a bitch to face and especial fuck you to those av regen sets holy

Thanks for reading, hope what I wrote makes sense n_n
Lastly Pearl I know you've said you don't want anything to do with generation 8 but I hope you change your mind because your tier is definitely worth playing right now and I imagine with the current council's activity it'll remain the best quality it can through all these bullshit 100 tiering changes it'll have to face
Pce

 

[Yellow Cheese]

the metagame is alright even if i dont understand half of the things going on (seriously what the fuck did gen 7-8 do with pokemon)

Anyway ive been using Mr.Mime Galar and ive found it pretty nice, im pretty low on the ladder so my experience is pretty lackluster so feel gree to blast my ass if this sucks

(Mr. Mime-Galar) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Screen Cleaner
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rapid Spin
- Shadow Ball
- Ice beam/Freeze-Dry
- Psychic/Nasty plot

The crux of the set is beating doublade/Chandelure on switchin. It wont die to a shadow sneak from Doublade and 2hkos it with shadow ball, Chandelure gets the same. everything else is pretty standard.

NP freeze dry 2hkos Vaporeon, Milotic and +2 shadowball nukes Bronzong, so slashed it as it can beat some mons who think they are safe, also allows it do do some damage to bulky things in general. I usually NP on the ghost switchin, then either kill that shadow ball or do good chip on anything that switches in.

this thing dies to any form of priority besides ice shard, so dont expect it to live after that, 100 speed tier is trolly so you outspeed a decent amout of things and can get some alright chip on pokes before dying. if you get a rapid spin off you can outspeed every common scarfer so feel free to do that.

Havent seen screens yet but it fucks that also which is cool i guess

 

[Lily]

yeezyknows has influenced my thoughts and I am now a believer in the power that is Choice Specs Gardevoir and the tier's complete lack of decent Moonblast switchins. To compound this, I thought "what if I had TWO Gardevoirs" but then species clause existed so I used Ribombee instead (THANK YOU Juuno <3)

https://pokepast.es/987deccdfc0c2ce4

This team is actually pretty bad and I don't recommend using it but I have faith in the idea of fairy spam so I'd like to challenge someone to make a better team using this duo.

Basically the idea is to use Gardevoir to break all the fat that would normally switch into it, and then use Ribombee to clean up said fat while also acting as speed control vs offense. Rhyp/Weezing/Umbreon is just standard backbone, could probablyh be made into something better on offense, and Heliolisk is there because I lose to Milotic if I don't run it.

Milotic is broken btw. Hate that thing.

I haven't really said it yet but, I don't really believe this meta is better than the pre-ban meta. Certain mons are just really really REALLY difficult to kill for a variety of reasons such as less knock/toxic distribution (milo, weezing, umbreon) and yet they're necessary bc otherwise you lose to stuff like sirfetch'd, mamo or chandelure. I don't necessarily think anything is banworthy rn but I really hope we get something in the tier shifts (Mimikyu, Dracozolt :eyes:) that helps to shift the meta a bit and make it a little less fat based.

As for shining stars of the meta rn...
Durant, Mamoswine, Milotic, Weezing-G, Umbreon, Sirfetch'd kinda, Gardevoir, Doublade and Golisopod. I think Bronzong and Copperajah are also picking up steam purely because they help with Gardevoir (and Mamo in Bronzong's case). Idt reuni is that good but maybe it's just because I've been running umbreon + goli on every team idk.
Excited to see where the tier goes as usual, hope everyone has fun in Masters. Let's hope the tier shift gods are kind to us :>

 

[Chandell]

Diggersby has no counters. I thought this guy was tough but just annoying until I figured out he got the elemental punches. I’ve just swept two teams with SD Diggersby after a long hiatus, just wiping out Pokémon I don’t even know the names of. +2 Quick Attack kills a ton of potential revenge killers, for example Life Orb +2 Quick Attack kills Noivern. Speaking of the elemental punches, fire punch alone covers all potential counters. The closest counter to Diggersby is Rotom standard form, and that things has no bulk or recovery. Pyukumuku also can check SD fairly well, but gets wiped by CB Diggersby. CB Diggersby with Earthquake, Mega Kick, Fire Punch and Quick Attack has no switch ins. You can also run a life orb set which is very formidable as well. The only weakness Diggersby has is revenge killing. The SD set really shortens the list of revenge killers, and the CB set will kill something if you don’t guess lucky, so you can potentially lose something every time Diggersby comes in. My final point why I think Diggersby should be suspected is that he was banned in USUM UU, a meta with a plethora more defensive mons and multi purpose revenge killers. If there’s an offensive Pokémon in SnS UU that was banned in USUM UU which had many more defensive options than that Pokémon should be suspected.

 

[DraconicLepus]

A lot has changed in the meta since Kommo-o rose to OU, and our big three Crawdaunt, Obstagoon, and Gengar were banned. A lot of common trends before are not as prevalent now, and a lot of things have risen due to the changes. Today I wanted to make a post noting these changes.

The first obvious playstyle that has fallen off is Sticky Webs. I’m not saying it’s bad right now, but it is nowhere near as prevalent as before. When UU Alpha was going on webs were EVERYWHERE. It was the most common playstyle on almost all ladder. It was around 25% which is crazy to me. Webs has always been a more niche playstyle, even more so now with Heavy-Duty Boots spinners and on Pokemon in general. While still viable in a sense, it is nowhere near as common. There are a few reasons why I think this happened. One big reason is gengar getting banned, as due to its speed tier weavile was the only pokemon that can outspeed it without help from webs. Even then, people used gengar on webs, so it was just a webs vs webs battle and whoever used it better usually won. Another big abuser was Obstagoon. With its already solid speed, great attack, guts, and great coverage it killed everything. But these are only a few of the reasons I think and will not go in much longer on it.

Alright the next point i’m bringing up is a rise in more defensive teams. Common cores like Umbreon + Galarian Weezing, Noivern+Rhyperior, and bulky waters like Milotic and Vaporeon in general, things have become a lot more fat. Dynamax was something that really did not support defensive teams, along with the 3 mons that got banned. This gave a lot more breathing room for these defensive teams once they were gone. It’s a lot more common now to see these balance teams, and bulky offense too. Something I haven’t seen much personally is stall but I think it is hard to handle all of the offensive breakers in the meta, which brings me to my next point. Defensive teams don’t go scott free because we have lots of scary breakers. The best of these in my opinion are Haxorus and Diggersby. Haxorus in particular I want to talk about because frankly, I think it’s dumb. It’s two best sets are Dragon Dance and Choice Band, both of which are equally scary. A point I want to make is in gen 7, while haxorus was still a scary breaker it was much easier to deal with due to how many more pokemon could check it, and how many pokemon could outspeed it while scarfed since its base 97 speed was mediocre at best. Now with the dex cut it’s speed is a lot more of a problem now. If running Dragon Dance and it boosts to +1 there is no common scarfer that can outspeed it. The most common scarfers that I have seen are Passimian, Indeedee, Gardevoir, Chandelure, and Rotom-Mow. All but one of these gets outsped by +1 Haxorus and the only one that does outspeed it Haxorus resists both of its STAB moves. This is very scary in any game so the most reliable way i’ve found to deal with it is strong priority moves. This isn’t the only way but i’m going to continue on to the next set: Choice Band. This gets rid of the need to setup and gives immediate power, making it the scariest breaker in all the tier. Great coverage in Outrage, Earthquake, Close Combat, Poison Jab, and the most stupid part of this set First Impression. Since it got distributed to many more pokemon things that may have previously been able to outspeed and kill it can get hit by +2 priority First Impression and die. Even if it can be used on the first turn only this can turn the tides a lot. The most important one there to me is Weavile since it’s one of the most reliable killers of haxorus, outspeeding banded and with ice shard. First impression kills it, and out prioritizes ice shard. Other notable pokemon it hits: Scarf Gardevoir, Inteleon, and Mamoswine (the other ice shard user). Point being, it can play around it’s usual checks and just does a shit ton of damage in general. Mold Breaker just means unaware can’t deal with it, and weezing can’t check earthquake. After my rant about Haxorus, my point is that I think it’s the pokemon thats the closest to being suspect and ban worthy. It has a lot of positive traits that make it way too much of a threat to ignore.

Other small things I wanted to note on is Toxicroak is a great breaker that really abuses current meta.

I agree with what everyone has said about Golisopod above. Great mon rn.

Whimsicott is a cool mon.

Fire types are extremely unexplored. Chandelure, Ninetales, Salazzle, even Arcanine all are super valuable in the current meta.

Okay I don't want to format anything so thats all thanks for readying byeeeee

 

[Euphonos]

Since UU forum leaders won't give me an avenue for a proper farewell address, I can't resist not to post at this time to give some thoughts on the SS UU metagame.

It's been a few days since I'm trying to get the hang of the SS UU metagame without Kommo-o (due to its rise), Obstagoon (one of my personal favorites), Crawdaunt, and Gengar (due to the latter three getting the hammer). Not going to lie, the generation in itself is a breath of fresh air thanks to the Dexit being a blessing in disguise, but what makes this a little frustrating on my end is the establishment of a rather solid defensive backbone that will cover almost all possible threats.

Speaking of a defensive backbone, allow me to share one of UU's defensive mainstays with a set people haven't exactly discovered yet:

Bronzong @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 248 SpD / 12 Spe
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Hypnosis
- Rock Tomb
- Protect

Since Generation 6, Bronzong became one of my most favorite Pokemon to use as a dedicated Special wall, and it is all thanks to one of its moves: Hypnosis. Despite being a less reliable Sleep option, it is still worth using to disarm one opposing Pokemon to aid one of my teammates to set up. This Pokemon would be best paired with a bulky water (probably Jellicent, Vaporeon, or Mantine) to maximize its potential. With Bronzong being spared from Dexit comes the loss of another move that becomes part of the repertoire of any Bronzong user -- Psywave. Despite its loss, I bring up Rock Tomb in its arsenal; despite the move not gaining STAB, its secondary effect is its sole reason why I use this set -- as such, this Bronzong set is geared towards bulky offense teams that require such tools to aid its teammates in setting up.

Speaking of a set-up attacker, I've been hearing Toxicroak being one of those worthy Pokemon; however, I come up with another under-explored set, that, while it has been underrated for generations, this set is worth abusing with all the current defensive Pokemon in the metagame.

Toxicroak @ Blunder Policy
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Sludge Wave
- Focus Blast
- Vacuum Wave / Dark Pulse

It's a rather straightforward Nasty Plot Toxicroak, but this the one set I catch most people off guard with. What sets Nasty Plot Toxicroak apart from Nasty Plot Lucario is Dry Skin; with that, it can easily switch in to most Water attacks. It may be frustrating to attempt to click a Focus Blast and then miss, but with Blunder Policy, it may mean a game over to opposing teams without a Ghost (that's why Dark Pulse could be slashed over Vacuum Wave) or other Pokemon with Priority.


Don't worry, I will still be lurking and casually battling from time to time (that's why I'm currently stuck in the 1400's of the ladder, lol!)

 

[Corthius]

Hey its me, the guy nobody asks for. I want to share a team I had a lot of fun with.

https://pokepast.es/d966c202ed419a5d
​

Update:
I switched Rhyperior for Flygon. It gives me a Stealth-Rocker and I found it more usefull that Flygon. I dont need to point out why its good, just read the posts above.

https://pokepast.es/ba68b1ecc10360fd
​

Starting of with this fella, Pangoro is my personal favorite when it comes to Choice Banded Wall-Breakers. I just like the fact that every time I see a broken Reuniclus I just laugh in in Darkest Lariat. Iron Head is for the big fighting-wall Weezing-Galar that gets easily 2HKO. Bullet Punch can be good at clearing weakend mons.



I dont think I have to talk much about this strong mon. The interessting part is the Future Sight. Im a big fan of mind games and Future Sight is one of the best tools to do so. The combination of this strong attack and Choice Band Pangoro to switch in I destroyed many defensive cores. But thats basically it for Gardevoir that hasnt been said before.



I really began to love this mon because of that team. Its a nice pivot with U-Turn and Fake Out to bring in Pangoro or Gardevoir in safe. It can also hit really hard with Tough Claws boosted attacks. Pure Steel-Type gives also a nice way to switch into Weezing-Galar and other faires or what not.



Im not sure what to actual think of Flygon. Its kinda good and most of the time it does it job as an late game cleaner. Iron Tail is for (who would have guessed) Weezing-Galar. I know its wacky to rely on 75% acc but it pays of if u can land it.
Sometimes...just sometimes I personally think its underwhelming in power even after one Dragon Dance. But that's just me I guess.



Vaporeon is my personal choice over Umbreon when it comes to Wish-passing 'cause it has a higher HP-stat and gives a water immunity. Wish gives a great way to heal Perrserker or like...the other mons on your team. But I dont think I have to talk muich about this mon. Pretty standard stuff.



Did someone say pollution? Well this mon will be your stylish favorite. Im a huge fan of the design and the mon itself. But again its nothing special over here so I will encourage u to look at the posts above.



That just wraps it up with this post.
Im glad to be part of the best tier on smogon period lol.

Have a great day and thanks for reading

 

[Twilight]

<Click Me>

We are nearing the end of Beta so I wanted to share a team I've been using to reach my peak. Just like most people, I've on the Specs Gardevoir wave which yeezyknows has hyped up for good reason. Unfortunately, he isn't enough of a bro to drop 50 ladder points for me smh. Regardless I've had a lot of success and fun using the squad so I wanted to share it.

Toxicroak is a good anti-meta Pokemon right now with how easily it takes advantage of the bulky Water-types and being able to setup and OHKO offensive Weezing with Gunk Shot and defensive Weezing after rocks + a good roll. It's also not complete deadweight against most offensive Mons because it has access to Sucker Punch. The primary issue with Toxicroak is it is really weak without a boost and can't really touch Doublade as it isn't hard for the Doublade user to outplay Sucker. I do make up for this by pairing it with Specs Gard, which pressures and 2HKO's Doublade and Milo just sits on it.

Anyways, the team pretty much falls in place after this with Milotic being the glue Mon to support the team. The spread helps vs other Specs Gard and Sigi etc. Doublade is a late-game cleaner and primary response to some of the strong Psychic-types. Rhyperior is the best rocker in the tier and by virtue of its bulk soft checks a good proportion of the tier. Noivern is needed Speed control and provides hazard removal. In all fairness, this shit looks pretty standard but it has been effective.

The biggest threats to the team are Rotom-C and Haxorus from experience. Rotom-C pressures both glue mons but nothing lets it come in without taking a lot of chip damage so you have enough outs vs it. Haxorus basically claims something if it Dragon Dances for free so you basically have to force it to Outrage to revenge kill with Gardevoir. CB Haxorus is essentially walled by Noivern unless the player clicks Outrage, in which case I'll always take that trade. This seems to be a common trend with a lot of my teams because nothing really tanks bar Aromatisse, which is just something I've accepted at this point. There are ofc other strong breakers that threaten this but it would be pointless listing them all and it's not like there isn't any counterplay. As for fillers, you can swap out Psyshock on Gardevoir for Shadow Ball or Thunderbolt if you want for coverage vs like Reuni and the bulky Waters, mainly SpD Milo. You could opt for Trick but you honestly rarely want to get rid of your Specs.

I hope you guys enjoy the team if you want to try it out ^^

 

[Adaam]

Some thoughts:

I like this tier and think this has a lot of potential of being fantastic. The metagame is missing 3 things, however, and they all will be fixed by the DLC: Toxic, more rockers, Blissey better Steel-types.

Many people like the reduced Toxic distribution, but all it did is tilt the scale massively towards offense by indirectly buffing all breakers and nerfing all walls. Hard switching into a wall is free as hell so long as you are not weak to their STAB, making it extremely difficult to comfortably build a defensive backbone. If you disagree with me then run any Bronzong set ever and proceed to gouge your eyes out as it clicks rocks once and then does a net negative damage throughout the game.

We have very few rockers, and even though they kinda suck this gen, it is still frustrating to always run Hippo/Rhyp/Mamo on your team since everything else sucks.

Steel-types sucking isn't necessarily a bad thing, but Toxic Spikes are so good right now and with very few Fairy-types, it makes it really hard to handle these + Noivern, Haxorus, Gardevoir, Espeon etc. The ones we do have either have base 2 spdef or are Bronzong, which sucks.

I guess we could use more removers too, but really with Boots I don't think it's that big a deal.

 

[Pak]

This happened 3 weeks or so ago, when I still had a shit load of time over break, but I never got around to posting more metagame thoughts and other things. I'm not going to share teams or anything this time and it'll probably come out as more of a rant than anything. To be frank, my interest in the tier fell off a cliff for a bit and that's for a number of reasons; some of which, people like Adaam touched on above. I've still been building/playing but it's just felt more and more like a slog. For the early stages, the new car smell was still fresh, combined with the fact that literally anything looks fun compared to the current state of SM UU.

Initially, I was actually really excited about the dex cut, and my worsened opinion of it isn't even related to the DLCs inevitably fucking over Smogon tiering when they drop. Yes, the overall drop in power creep was cool. Yes, Z-moves gone is also cool. Beyond that it's just like meh. We have no rockers, no hazard removal, the boots drastically cut down on the natural progress that hazards are meant to bring about, no steels, no ghost checks (which is especially cool considering we have the epitome of matchup fish in the tea pot), no Milotic switch-ins (of all things), and a bunch of obscure breakers that have like 2-3 checks and hardly any overlap between them. Clearly I'm exaggerating a bit, but altogether it constricts teambuilding to a ridiculous extent. Regarding the latter point, there simply isn't enough room in building and as a result, the battle, to keep them at bay to a reasonable level. Nothing is broken, but I'm referring to the Chandelures, Haxorus, Mamos, Gardes, Durants, Sirfetch'ds, Diggersbys, etc. of the world. Their outright counterplay is so limited and the dex cut has only minimized the flexibility options in the teambuilder around them. You can obviously make obscure shit work but good luck trying to fit them on teams without 3-4 of Milotic/Rhyperior/Weezing/Noivern/Doublade. You can make the case that any tier will inevitably have top mons and that's perfectly fine, but it's to a stupid extreme in my opinion.

It seems like every team looks the same and frankly it's just getting more and more boring. I'm not entirely sure what I was hoping to accomplish by bringing my discord-jerk bitching to light in a more serious setting, but good god did I need to get this off my chest in a somewhat organized way. With all this said, I don't think the tier is unplayable or anything, and it's fine if you disagree with my opinion, but please give us Home, the rest of the mons, the rest of the moves, and all the other shit asap.

 

[Hogg]

I wanted to bring up something that Juuno mentioned to me and that there’s been some discussion on in the UU room and discord. What is everyone’s thought on Haxorus? Alpha Rabbit mentioned it potentially being suspect worthy down the road in his recent post.

On a personal level I’ve been using CB a lot recently and think it’s one of our top breakers right now, though I definitely think it does not rise anywhere near the level of immediate concern that the previous bans (Daunt/Lucha/Goon/Gar) did. It’s faster than Goon and has an effective Attack of 589 and a plethora of high-BP attacks to tear through most walls, but its reliance on Outrage and poor bulk (significantly worse than Goon, comparable to Daunt but without the Dark typing that let Daunt come in on walls like Umbreon) has made it far easier to deal with in my experience.

 

[Wanka]

Hey why not make a UU post

I’ve been laddering a solid amount and I gotta say that shit dried up pretty quickly. I think it could even be said that the root of the suffering right now has to do with just the low amount of mons to even pick from. Yeah you can use whatever you want but in UU alone I don’t think I’ve seen a lesser amount of mons to use. Two glaring things for me that I can kinda shout out loud even tho I don’t have a complete handle on the meta are Milotic and boots. For me I think if you’re not using Milotic you’re putting yourself at an instant disadvantage on the ladder. The amount of mons that can comfortably switch into Milotic is really low and the meta rewards a brainless set and a brainless mon that really shouldn’t be as good as it is.

Doesn’t really pertain to UU specifically but boots are really dumb. The fact that a main element to competitive Pokémon is significantly chopped down by one item is pretty ridiculous and it’s effect on building is pretty glaring to me. It obviously hasn’t completely nullified it but the effects it has had make me realize you really don’t need hazard control. I’ve been finding myself building teams that just have something to absorb toxic spikes (rose, drapion are both good mons as a whole imo) and then whatever mon (I.e. noivern) I have that would generally be weak to rocks gets boots thrown on it and I can afford to build as I please and gain a ton of utility by having a mon not able to be touched by hazards that normally would hinder it and force me to sack other utility for hazard control.

Sad part is like pak said, the Introduction of DLCs really screwed the pooch and I personally don’t see much that can fix the problems other than time, which is unfortunate but we’ll see. I’ve still been able to find enjoyment personally because I haven’t grinded a present UU meta in a while but ye figured I’d pop in.

 

[Fusion Flare]

Some thoughts:

I like this tier and think this has a lot of potential of being fantastic. The metagame is missing 3 things, however, and they all will be fixed by the DLC: Toxic, more rockers, Blissey better Steel-types.

Many people like the reduced Toxic distribution, but all it did is tilt the scale massively towards offense by indirectly buffing all breakers and nerfing all walls. Hard switching into a wall is free as hell so long as you are not weak to their STAB, making it extremely difficult to comfortably build a defensive backbone. If you disagree with me then run any Bronzong set ever and proceed to gouge your eyes out as it clicks rocks once and then does a net negative damage throughout the game.

We have very few rockers, and even though they kinda suck this gen, it is still frustrating to always run Hippo/Rhyp/Mamo on your team since everything else sucks.

Steel-types sucking isn't necessarily a bad thing, but Toxic Spikes are so good right now and with very few Fairy-types, it makes it really hard to handle these + Noivern, Haxorus, Gardevoir, Espeon etc. The ones we do have either have base 2 spdef or are Bronzong, which sucks.

I guess we could use more removers too, but really with Boots I don't think it's that big a deal.

 

[Twilight]

I haven't talked about Haxorus since the beginning of this thread where I brought up it potentially needing to be looked at down the line. However, I have since changed my viewpoint on the matter after having played this tier a fair amount and having agreed with a previously brought up point by Hikari, regarding the power creep of this gen.

I have personally used three variants of Haxorus being DD, SD, and CB and I think all of them are really solid and formidable breakers/sweepers but I don't believe Hax in itself is an issue. Firstly, it doesn't set up on most of the tier without being punished in some manner, usually by coverage options. Every bulky Water-type is carrying Ice Beam for instance and while Rotom-C can be a setup opportunity, the Hax user should still be wary of a potential Thunder Wave or Will-O-Wisp (Maybe I am the only one who uses these coverage options a fair amount but hopefully you get the point). Secondly, as Hogg stated, Haxorus is extremely dependent on Outrage to be able to sweep and breakthrough a team, which is something that can be exploited easily.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1053068626-73ihxh02zm874upka0njxma03bbiit9pw

Here is a good example where my opponent was using a CB Haxorus, which I Frisked turn 1. For the remainder of this game, I took advantage of the fact that my opponent would have to lose their breaker early if they pressed Outrage, so Noivern was my primarily pivot into it. Sure a case can be made that trading one for one isn't defensive or good counterplay but this is definitely a scenario where it is a worthwhile trade, something that doesn't solely apply to Haxorus either. Lastly, priority is so common and important on almost every team that there are enough means to revenge kill Haxorus. First Impression was distributed to more Mons for example and we still have means of revenge killing it with Flygon for example while Aromatisse is a good check to Haxorus.

Personally I don't see banning or suspecting Haxorus changing much as I don't think it is that restricting or unhealthy for the meta. This tier is littered with so many strong threats that attempting to check everything is literally impossible rn. In terms of restrictions, I think Chandelure is so much worse to deal with than Haxorus. There are so few good responses to it for offense that I find a lot of my teams just don't deal with its coverage well if you don't want to run Gigalith or Umbreon. However I don't think Chandelure is broken or ban-worthy, it's just that losing so many Pokemon has given us fewer Ghost immunities and resists capable of safely switching into it. This is the exact same case with stuff like Mamoswine, Diggersby, Durant, and Haxorus. All of these Pokemon are hilariously strong and lack minimal counterplay because of the dex cut, but I don't think solely banning/suspecting Haxorus in particular is going to change much when all of these still exist.

Nothing is evidently suspect worthy to me at this current point in time. I've discussed this with Sage, and I agree with her in the fact that nothing is going to change the state of the tier until the DLC's drop or Home has some significant impact to shake stuff up. This isn't me saying we shouldn't be proactive until then, because we obviously need to deal with Mons dropping from OU etc. but I think people need to adapt to/accept this more offensive and slightly volatile meta than attempt to potentially ban every strong threat in a desperate attempt to change it, especially one like Haxorus that has a good degree of counterplay.

 

[Fusion Flare]