np SS UU Stage 2 - Here Comes The Sun (Gyarados & Primarina BANNED)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Laddering UU again eeeeeeeeeee

I agree with a lot of the statements above regarding Dracozolt. Unlike the other hustle user Durant, it has very few limitations to it's effectiveness of wallbreaking. The biggest curse is being a 50/50 Pokemon but that mentality is still very unhealthy for the meta. You are forced to run ground fairy and frankly you're gonna lose a pokemon in the process if you don't predict correct. Several ladders teams have been slowed down because nearly everyone is running Rhyperior, Hippowdon, Gardevoir, Wheezing-Galar, or revenge killer Haxorus to check or counter back a Dracozolt assault. You could argue that was the meta prior, but even then there was room for other pokemon and innovation to come out of a sans-Dracozolt meta. A LOT of copy and paste teams are coming out of UU right now.

I've been sticking with Band Zolt and the power coming off of it is absolutely absurd. Chunking even RESISTANCES to 60-80% and having a very high chance to OHKO Wheezing-Galar. Anything else that chooses to stay in just dies to STABs or gets chunked very hard. Once you remove the big counter of your ground or fairy type you can abuse it's STABs and not have to think too hard as nothing relevant in the UU meta wants to come in on it. The fact that it can run Scarf, Band, LO, and Substitute all with great effectiveness also adds onto the unpredictable nature of scouting what set the Dracozolt player is running. This is ONTOP of trying to figure out what STAB move will come out. It's absurd forcing of coin flip scenarios and having little to no perfect counters towards it should deserve a Ban.
 

TDK

is a Community Leaderis a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
UU Leader
Hey all, back again once again...

The UU Council has voted to BAN Dracozolt.



When Dracozolt initially dropped, everyone jumped on the Choice Band set due to its crazy power and the fact it OHKOs nearly every thing that isn't a Ground-type with Bolt Beak, to which gets hit by Outrage or another move. But, a crazy good breaker is nothing new to this tier, as we have a multitude of absurdly good breakers, even if Dracozolt is harder to wall, both of its STABs will very frequently run into an immunity and it also has to deal with Hustle reducing its accuracy. Dracozolt's speed is also pretty bad, leaving it vulnerable to easily being revenge killed by a lot of very common Pokemon, as well as reducing the opportunities it has to even come in in the first place. However, as time went on, people diverged from only using the CB set and found out that Dracozolt is, quite frankly, pretty stupid with multiple sets. Scarf in particular is ridiculous; letting it outspeed the vast majority of the tier and giving it absurd cleaning potential. Life Orb and Substitute are up there as well; being able to change moves and still hit with absurd power, as well as hide behind a sub making it impossible to RK bar Infiltrator allows for even more shenanigans. CB is not a bad set by no means, either, as quite frankly, it doesn't have any form of counter play bar a) winning a 50/50, b) dodging, c) sac and revenge kill. All in all, Dracozolt is simply too much for the tier, and has been voted to be banned in a 9-2-1 decision.

Tagging The Immortal and Marty to ban Dracozolt from UU when they have the opportunity; thanks!

 
Because every Council member in each tier have their rights to Vote No Ban or Ban or just stay Abstain to reflect their opinions about a pokémon instead of just saying we ban it without even asking the council members first. They come together and discuss a mon and then having the right to put their own opinion in a possible suspect yes/no scenario or in a council vote scenario.
I think they moreso meant why they actually voted DNB, as opposed to the overwhelming ban majority
 
RIP Zolt, you were fun while you lasted, but at least you'll no longer be in constant, undying agony. Bulky waters and Umbreon benefited a lot for defensive cores so there'll be some more variety for defensive play, or as much as there can be before Home and the first DLC drop.
I thought only The vishes and arcto were suffering, zolt just says it has too much junk in the trunk compared to its upper body
 

Moutemoute

Chillin' in quarantine
is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Moderator
Pokemon-HOME.png


Pokemon HOME is available guys, Showdown will be probably updated in the next hours / days.
Knock Off is back but also Toxic and Defog which is huge for a lot of Pokemon. Offensive threats such as Golisopod, Weavile and Diggersby can now punish their check thanks to Knock Off while defensive threats such as Bronzong, Milotic, Mantine etc.. can be better than ever with either Toxic or Defog.. Not gonna lie.. I'm hyped !

IMG_20200212_031940__01.jpg
 
Last edited:
3oxgs6.jpg


ITS TIME

I just want to know why there were 2 votes for no ban, and the thought process behind them :| also dont understand why abstain is even an option
Can't speak for vivalospride and Amane Misa but I think some common arguments for no ban are that both of Dracozolt's STABs don't require a special ability like water absorb to be immune to it. Ground types are already great rockers in UU and fairy isn't a bad typing either so most teams can deal with it in someway. It's also slow as hell without scarf and is as accurate as stone edge (so 0%).

Abstaining is a great option if you haven't experienced enough to form a solid opinion (pokeaim's case). It's an option because it's infinitely better to abstain and not skew the results then to make a coin flip whether to ban or not.
 
Last edited:
So, Pokemon Home came out. Moves got distributed again. Knock off, Defog, and Toxic in particular are much more common compared to before so I wanted to come in and speculate what things in the metagame will thrive due to these changes, and what got hurt due to it.

:ss/doublade:
This is one of the first one I want to bring up, which hates some of these changes. Specifically now that knock off is so much more common it can't keep its Eviolite nearly as easily, which it really wants to have. It loses the bulk to setup when the eviolite is gone, its not nearly as solid of a wincon as it was before. But it did gain a new tool in toxic, which I think could be used extremely well on a more defensively oriented, or even on offensive doublade sets. It's able to toxic dark types, bulky waters [specifically milotic] and other mons that would normally want to come in and check it. It both lost one of its greatest advantages in not much knock off, but also gained a new tool in toxic. So how is it going to change in viability? It'll still be good, but it's going to be a lot easier to check.

:ss/silvally:
Now in my opinion one of the biggest winners, not only for UU but all the lower tiers is Silvally. The specific forms I think will be most viable is Silvally Steel and Silvally Fairy, though all of them could potentially be used tbh. It gained access to defog, flame charge, and toxic to its already immense movepool which just expanded from some of the gen 8 moves that got highly distributed. It being able to fill any typing on a team is a huge plus, since it can cover weaknesses and roles that other mons cant do with that specific typing. It just leaves a lot to be desired if you want to have a steel type defogger, so you dont have to stack types with something else for example. Overall, I'm extremely curious to see how the viability of this mon and it's different forms will change from Home.

:ss/milotic:
This one is the big boy, one of the best pokemon in the tier and honestly quite annoying at times. How did it get affected by home? It really gained only toxic, and lost a lot because now so many pokemon get toxic. Especially with refresh now being completely gone from the game it really just sucks for Milotic. It's still going to be extremely good don't get me wrong, but not nearly as dominant of a force as before. There isn't actually all too much to say here.

:ss/weavile:
I'm sure to a lot of people Weavile lost too much when it didn't have pursuit OR knock off anymore. I was always a strong supporter of this pokemon in UU, and used it on a lot of my teams. After Home, it got one of its strongest tools in knock off again. That begs the question: does this make Weavile TOO strong? I feel this is going to be a big conversation topic, and i've seen a lot of discussion about how this is going to be broken, banworthy, "enjoy using it while it lasts" kinda thing. In my personal opinion, I don't think it'll be any of these things. Weavile was always a very prominent threat with its three best sets in Swords Dance, Choice Band, and All out Attacker. As well as being the second fastest unboosted threat in the tier is nothing to laugh at. The thing is there are also a lot of viable and prominant threats that check it. The prevelance of first impression is a big one, at +2 priority and a super effective move it will 100% knock out weavile every time. So unless you run protect, thats going to kill. As well as common defensive pokemon such as umbreon, g-weezing, milotic, and vaporeon to name a few. You also have offensive checks like Lucario, Golisopod [aforementioned First Impression], and probably a lot of other ones i'm missing. I just think that its not going to be nearly as banworthy as some people seem to think.



Flygon is going to be a really cool mon, with access to defog and I think roost as well back, it's going to make a potent defogger that can work on both offensive and defensive teams. It's going to be interesting to see how this is used as post-home meta develops.


Also got defog, generally good utility, good typing for this meta. Don't know what other moves it got but I think it got even better. It really likes all the changes that happened specifically for itself.


Got toxic. No longer passive as all hell. Water immunity, good stats, good typing, has potential.


Durant got Hone Claws back. Thats enough said already cuz man that thing is going to hurt when it cant miss its moves anymore. It already hurt before that too.


Vaporeon has Heal Bell again. Gonna be stiff competition between Vape and Milo for the bulky water spot on some teams now because It's going to be an extremely good defensive water.
 

Moutemoute

Chillin' in quarantine
is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Moderator

I made a quick overview of the changes we got thanks to Pokemon HOME. It's not perfect, but I think it may be useful for some players...


Roost :


Defog :


Toxic :



Knock Off :


Heal Bell :


Hone Claws :


Magic Coat :


Block :

- Knock Off, Synthesis
- Roost
- Heal Bell
- Knock Off
- Belly Drum
- Defog, Heal Bell, Roost
- Roost
 
Last edited:
I hate toxic and always hated it. Should have only been on grass/bug/poison types. Oh well, but if toxic Blissey returns then it’s over. Knock off has zero counterplay now, with certain walls leftovers/heavy duty boots seem to exist only to be knocked off. Still, pursuit being gone is the one must for me. If that remains the case then I’ll take the return of these other annoying mechanics.
 

Twilight

is an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Moderator
Silvally-Steel
Silvally-Steel @ Steel Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 200 HP / 56 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Multi-Attack
- Flamethrower / Defog
- Toxic
- Parting Shot / U-turn / Defog

I was using this a fair amount pre Home but it got infinitely better with getting Toxic and Defog back. With the loss of Mega stones and Z-Moves we don't have anymore Knock absorbers aside from the Silvally variants, which solidifies its niche and role in the meta. Silvally-Steel is one of the very few Mons that couldn't care less about Drapion (Unless it is some offensive EQ variant), has the bulk to take on Gardevoir and Roserade, and the offensive presence to threaten out stuff like Mamoswine and Weezing etc. It's also a decent check to Weavile (Something this tier is lacking) with resisting it's Ice STAB and Knock being weakened, but ofc you still have to worry about Low Kick.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Gardevoir Moonblast vs. 200 HP / 0 SpD Silvally-Steel: 129-153 (33.8 - 40.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

56 Atk Silvally-Steel Multi-Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mamoswine: 318-374 (88 - 103.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Knock Off vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Silvally-Steel: 157-186 (41.2 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Roserade Leaf Storm vs. 200 HP / 0 SpD Silvally-Steel: 140-165 (36.7 - 43.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

With getting Toxic back Silvally no longer lets in the bulky Water- and Ground-types for free and it can still chip down Giga and Rhyp with Multi Attack too. It doesn't sap momentum thanks to U-turn or Parting Shot and now has the ability to choose whether to compress hazard removal or just run Flamethrower for Doub and other Steels. Honestly, a really great Mon and I recommend others give it a go. I've personally paired it with Vaporeon a fair amount for Wish support to make up for the lack of recovery.

Tsareena
Tsareena (F) @ Filler
Ability: Queenly Majesty
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Power Whip
- U-turn
- Rapid Spin
- Knock Off

Knock Off really saved this Mon imo. I wasn't a huge fan of Tsareena pre-home because you just let in Doublade, Noivern, Galarian Weezing, and Chandelure in for free with no way to reliably chip them. This was really annoying when two of them can spinblock you. Now that it has Knock Off back you can punish all of them heavily. Doub can't afford to lose it's Eviolite, Vern loses boots making it susceptible to rocks, Weezing loses it's recovery and Chand takes like 85%. I think with time Tsareena will become a very good hazard remover in the tier and people should defo explore with it more.

Weavile
Weavile is obnoxious now that it has Knock Off because the lack of Knock absorbers leaves little drawback to clicking the move. All of our Dark resists pretty much lack recovery so it now takes that away from them (Primarily Galarian Weezing). Lucario is the only Mon that resists both STABs but will drop to Low Kick and is only a reliable revenge killer with Vacuum Wave. The bulky Water-types now lose their Lefties so get worn down faster and in combination with SD drop to Knock at +2. I don't think it's like quick ban worthy but realistically the best means of dealing with it effectively are First Impression, rocks if it lacks boots, Barra/scarfers not weak to Ice Shard, and defensively Phys Def Arcanine :bloblul:

Flygon
Not going to say much here but it's good role compression being able to run Defog on Scarf sets, especially for offense. I have found little success with Roost + Fog sets that don't make me wish I was using Noivern instead. Overall an okay Mon that clicks U-turn 95% of the time it comes in.

Durant
Durant getting Hone Claws back makes it so difficult to deal with. You now have to figure out whether it's 4 Atks or Hone Claws as both can run LO so until First Impression is revealed you have to be cautious to not let it set up for free. Hone Claws not only alleviates the miss chance but it actually gives it a way to break past Hippowdon and Milotic with relative ease. Doublade can't beat it 1vs1 because you drop to 2 Crunch's and you don't do enough with CC by virtue of it's decent Def. Flamethrower on Noivern is probably going to become pretty necessary to revenge kill it with the limited means we have to pivot into it. The Ant could actually become an issue as the meta develops.

I've obviously left out a fair amount of stuff but this is just my observation from playing around 30 or so games because I'm been pretty strapped for time as of late. I didn't want to make this too long but it's been enjoyable having Toxic back to punish the defensive cores with Milo and Umb etc. a lot easier. I'm interested to hopefully see some more experimentation with Silvally now that it has Flame Charge, Defog, and Toxic back. SD Fairyvally sounds a lot better with access to Flame Charge again and maybe Silvally Water might even have viability now.
 

vivalospride

The Man Your Man Could Smell Like
is an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Simulator Driver
Moderator
Making a quick post about the dracozolt vote, I don't believe we made the wrong decision or anything nor did i lean very heavily one way. I voted "do not ban" mainly bc of my experience using it, while it's a huge offensive threat w/o question it's dual STAB typing has two immunities and with lack of a move like u-turn or something it almost always felt like I was punished completely for even bringing it in against fairy + ground BOs/Balances (which I saw a whole lot of). Couple this with the ability that is hustle and it just never felt safe to have on the field except very very late in the game when scarf set is an extremely potent cleaner when it hits. The sets like sub 3 atks are significantly more frustrating to play around when you rely on those fairy + ground cores but the lack of speed and reliance on hustle (and moves like outrage) make it possible with faster mons/priority/just trying to not let it onto the field. We don't have many bulky grounds but we have a few (rhyp and hippo), as well as a few viable scarf ground types which outspeed even scarfed dracozolts (flygon and diggersbytho). Didn't make a post/send a description bc no sleep and stressed about random shit I apologize for the lack of communication >:D

tagging aim bc ik he said he wanted to see a reason for the dnb votes in his video

hope you assholes in the uu community had a nice valentines day while im here laddering on pocket monsters showdown :heart:

edit: here's a team for the masses: https://pokepast.es/838b0b0c2cb1ecdb
helio gets milo in on grounds to randomly click buttons bc this tier cant switch into bulky waters like the pathetic group of mons it is. helio by itself is also a p neato breaker, answers milo and stuff. weezing actually hard switches into the passive grounds like hippo that milo can be afraid of with hazards up bc of mediocre base defense and sand and prior chip and stuff, also toxic is legal now so harding milo into passive mons isnt quite as easy anymore, weezing comes in and breaks fat + other weezings with offensive evs and tspikes. flygon is speed control and emergency removal if im vs opposing tspikes, also elec immunity. gigalith is primary switch in to p much any special threat, has rocks, etc. weav is wincon and is good. too lazy for a more in depth description, switching into + breaking reuni is kinda depressing tho, but kinda doable, espec if u change ib to haze on milo.
 
Last edited:

Moutemoute

Chillin' in quarantine
is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Moderator
I've played a lot of games in the post-HOME metagame so here are my thoughts about it..


These three are insanely threatening right now. Thanks to HOME, they have access to Knock Off which allows them to pressure so much Pokémon and to be even better than before. Knock Off is arguably the best move in SS due of the its lack of answers (no more Mega Stone neither Z-Crystal to absorb it). Silvally is the only Pokemon which can handle it to a certain extent but to its lack of recovery, it's a shakky check to it. Weavile is in my opinion the worst of the three since it can really punish almost anything thanks to Knock Off + Icicle Crash. Weavile was already a big threat without Knock Off and I feel like it's even worst now. SD sets are really hard to stop due to the great speed of Weavile and it kinda forces people to run First Impression mon everywhere or Nasty Plot Lucario in order to reliably revenge kill it. After a SD, Weavile is really hard to handle and the fact that it can run either LO or Boots makes it annoying to deal with since you can't send something like max def Milotic on it if you didn't check Weavile's item before (because the difference of damages between Boots and LO is huge : 63-74% vs 82-97%). On the other hand Diggersby and Mamoswine are able to pressure even more their check (like Bronzong or Weezing-Galar) thanks to Knock Off which allows them to get rid off the passive recovery of their foes. I do believe the current tier lacks of answers to this three and it may be an issue.


I strongly agree with Twilight on this one, Tsareena is really good now thanks to Knock Off and the fact that Drapion isn't played as much as before. I do believe it's our best Rapid Spin user atm and a really nice check to all those bulky Water-types. Like Twilight said, Knock Off allows Tsareena to punish Ghost-types which would like to prevent it to Rapid Spin and it's priceless tbh. Being able to get rid off Heavy-Duty Boots, Eviolite or Leftovers is always nice and unlike 7th generation I feel like that Tsareena doesn't have a 4 MSS at all now since it only really need Rapid Spin / Grass STAB / Knock Off and U-turn. Heavy-Duty Boots are also a bless for it but it's not new..


Vikavolt @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 64 Def / 192 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Bug Buzz
- Volt Switch
- Energy Ball / Thunderbolt / Sticky Web
At the beginning of SS, I was hyped about Vikavolt because it got Sticky Web.. Unfortunately it lost Roost in the same time which trully sucks. But now thanks to Pokemon HOME, Roost Vikavolt is back and I do believe this Pokemon is really useful in the current metagame as a bulky pivot which is able to check Water-types while still being able to handle Ground-types thanks to Levitate and its Bug-type STAB / Energy Ball. Like all the Pokemon weak to Stealth Rock, Vikavolt enjoys a lot Heavy-Duty Boots which allows it to be a great pivot. I definitively advise people to try this one at least once because it's super fun to use and good vs the current metagame. Btw the EVs spread allows Vikavolt to outspeed max speed Doublade and everything bellow while maximizing its bulk.


Top-10-SSUUHome.png

I also reached top 10 of the ladder while using two teams so feel free to try them. Thief on Slurpuff is nice to fucked up Bronzong or Corsola-Galar but be careful because if you're using it without having an item, RIP Unburden...


Vikavolt @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 64 Def / 192 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Bug Buzz
- Volt Switch
- Energy Ball

Mantine @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Defog
- Toxic
- Scald

Weavile @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Knock Off
- Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard

Bronzong @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Protect
- Toxic
- Psychic

Umbreon @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 248 HP / 120 SpD / 140 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell
- Foul Play

Lucario @ Life Orb
Ability: Steadfast
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Vacuum Wave
- Flash Cannon
- Dark Pulse


Slurpuff @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Play Rough
- Drain Punch
- Thief / Facade

Diggersby @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Quick Attack
- Earthquake
- Knock Off / Body Slam

Tsareena (F) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Queenly Majesty
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Power Whip
- Knock Off
- U-turn

Mamoswine @ Focus Sash
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Icicle Crash / Knock Off
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake

Araquanid @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 56 HP / 252 Atk / 200 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sticky Web
- Toxic
- Magic Coat
- Liquidation

Haxorus @ Lum Berry
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Close Combat
- Earthquake
 
Last edited:
Umbreon @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 248 HP / 120 SpD / 140 Spe
Careful Nature
What are you trying to outspeed with Umbreon?

And thank you for the great Post! I wouldn`t have thought that such offensive builds like your second team would be viable in the current UU.
 

Moutemoute

Chillin' in quarantine
is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Moderator
What are you trying to outspeed with Umbreon?

And thank you for the great Post! I wouldn`t have thought that such offensive builds like your second team would be viable in the current UU.
The main aim is to outspeed Milotic. Even if this spread is more used with Taunt, I'm using it with Heal Bell because I think is always useful to outspeed fast Taunt Umbreon.

You can check SS UU Speedlist for more details.
 
Are we going to get any news on Weavile anytime soon? Or Durant? Or Diggersby? I've given up the Haxorus discussion already given that like two people contributed to it, but I feel like these are the three mons people find problematic at this time. Honestly home didn't even change the meta that much, I feel like its been super easy to adjust lately. I just want to know if we are going to get any news on the three that people consider an issue. If you want to wait thats fine but I just feel like its been awfully quiet with news about what we plan to do for the future of the tier. Are we going to wait for March shifts? Are we not going to care about them at all until we exit beta? I just want to know.
 
Are we going to get any news on Weavile anytime soon? Or Durant? Or Diggersby? I've given up the Haxorus discussion already given that like two people contributed to it, but I feel like these are the three mons people find problematic at this time. Honestly home didn't even change the meta that much, I feel like its been super easy to adjust lately. I just want to know if we are going to get any news on the three that people consider an issue. If you want to wait thats fine but I just feel like its been awfully quiet with news about what we plan to do for the future of the tier. Are we going to wait for March shifts? Are we not going to care about them at all until we exit beta? I just want to know.
I'm glad you managed to accurately gauge everything regarding the meta within a five day span when a fair amount of the council haven't. Kudos to you for being so proactive in our darkest hours. And yes, it is frankly abhorrent how the council haven't made broad, sweeping, and multifaceted plans regarding tiering in a *checks notes* five day old meta.

cmon
 

faded love

DRINKS.
is a Tiering Contributor
The main aim is to outspeed Milotic. Even if this spread is more used with Taunt, I'm using it with Heal Bell because I think is always useful to outspeed fast Taunt Umbreon.

You can check SS UU Speedlist for more details.
Moutemoute,

I am personally very baffled by this above comment. You state the main purpose of the Speed investment is to outspeed and Taunt Milotic. However, does Taunt Umbreon not beat Milotic in a 1v1 scenario no matter what? The only situation where I find this applicable is if Milotic is chipped down already and also doesn’t know to run a couple of Speed EVs and also switches into Umbreon / you catch it on a Double Switch. You also say that you are running this on Heal Bell to outspeed other Taunt Umbreon also running speed investment. I don’t think either of these situations are nearly common enough to warrant such heavy Speed investment on a Defensive pokemon who would really love as much bulk as possible to avoid getting chipped into range by hazards, pivoting moves, and weaker attacks, etc. Please feel free to elucidate yourself further, as I am also concerned you are giving out a suboptimal EV spread to a potentially newer player above.

regards,

faded
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 4)

Top