np SS UU Stage 2 - Here Comes The Sun (Gyarados & Primarina BANNED)

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how can you have a version of uu with haxorus/mamoswine/chandelure/ridiculously powerful fighting types/a fistful of good entry hazard setters and tspikes asborbers and without blissey/bulky megas/regenerator fish and then feel obligated to complain about stall :bloblul:
This happens every single a time an offensive mon is banned, like clockwork. The Stall scaremongering will always be a talking point, disregarding the present situation of actual stall which is not good.

I'm happy with these bans and excited to see how the next tier drop further shakes up the meta here.
 
We have another Staraptor in our hands. BL since the beginning Diggersby, good job. i want to point out a set i absolutely love rn. Lemme introduce Ninetails

:Ninetales: @ Choice Specs
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Psyshock
- Memento

This comes from last gen in RU, but with Hidden Power gone and the addition of Memento, Ninetails is used as a wallbreaker and a support, allowing to break through steel types and then let its teammate set up. Hippo is everywhere but hey, remove that or do alot of damage with turn 2 solarbeam, boom. also good for Sun sweepers that dislike the passive torkoal
 
At this point, why don't we just ban Knock Off. It seems to be a common thread among many of the bans: Goon, Diggersby, Weevile, Daunt, etc.

Is the move's base power coupled with the utility of knocking items off just too much for the tier? It certainly seems that way since if you're a mon with high base attack and knock, you are likely either at the top of the viability rankings or banned.
 

Lilburr

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At this point, why don't we just ban Knock Off. It seems to be a common thread among many of the bans: Goon, Diggersby, Weevile, Daunt, etc.

Is the move's base power coupled with the utility of knocking items off just too much for the tier? It certainly seems that way since if you're a mon with high base attack and knock, you are likely either at the top of the viability rankings or banned.
Not quite. We have a lot of highly viable Knock Off spammers in the tier that hit pretty hard and always have; Drapion, Escavalier, Mamoswine, Sirfetch'd, Machamp etc. and they're completely healthy (maybe not mamo but it's fine for now lol). The issue with Goon, Daunt, Weavile and Diggersby is that Knock Off was the final straw in allowing them to turn their would-be checks into fodder and giving them a ridiculous matchup vs the rest of the tier; for example, Diggersby previously had to rely on Mega Kick to hit Bronzong and like idk Ice Punch to hit Rotom, but Knock Off solved that by giving it insane coverage (if they gave it Throat Chop the issue would likely be the same, just less pronounced.) Daunt and Goon were just too much for the tier unfortunately and had no real answers, both defensively and offensively. Weavile fills this same criteria; being able to facilitate its own sweep by knocking Weezing's black sludge or Avalugg's boots is enough to send it overboard.

Knock is always gonna be great in a tier that, despite its sheer quantity of ridiculous breakers, is largely based on defensive cores because removing items from these cores is and always has been an effective way to beat them. It just so happens that we had quite a few abusers that also happened to be ridiculous mons otherwise with extremely limited counterplay both offensively and defensively as a result of speed, priority or typing, and that's why they were banned, not really just because they can remove items.
 
At this point, why don't we just ban Knock Off. It seems to be a common thread among many of the bans: Goon, Diggersby, Weevile, Daunt, etc.

Is the move's base power coupled with the utility of knocking items off just too much for the tier? It certainly seems that way since if you're a mon with high base attack and knock, you are likely either at the top of the viability rankings or banned.
What Lily said, but I'd like to add that banning moves and abilities goes against the tiering policy, and while there might be some exceptions to this, it was generally preferred to ban pokemon and nothing else, so the ruleset does not become too convoluted or needlessly complicated
 

solonor24

Tournament Banned
SS UU Council is a bunch of pussies honestly
they are, your the biggest one. Big ups to yeezy accel and donny tho, real ones. Imagine not even playing ss uu but being on council lololol srsly viv

edit: on a more serious note, im glad these 3 were banned. Not so sure about the bunny but eh w/e. I hope this isn't a sign of things to come though. You can't just ban every pokemon with 120+ attack or Spa. I better not hear any shit about haxorus or gardevoir i stg ill quit
 
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G-Luke

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Ignoring the degeneracy and shitposts that are plaguing the thread, lets talk mons.


Gardevoir @ Choice Specs
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Ability: Trace
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Mystical Fire
- Trick

Gardevoir is so fly rn. Durant and Weavile were some of its biggest checks on Offensive builds, being able to easily revenge kill it without little issue. Scarf Diggersby was also generally for Gardevoir, being easily able to gain momentum off it or just straight up revenge kill it. Now It has a little less to fear once it starts dropping bombs with its very powerful Specs boosted STABs.
 

Freeroamer

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Been trying out sun a little bit, haven't really found a consistent team with it but I definitely think it's got potential to be really good!

:ss/shiftry:
Shiftry @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 29 HP
- Solar Blade
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch / Swords Dance
- Protect

This guy is an absolute monster, I started out using SD but I virtually never clicked it so started looking for other options and stumbled onto Protect. I'm sure I'm not the first to think of this, but I was getting pissed at being forced out by the potential of First Impression all the time so I started using this instead and it's been great so far, can really take a game away from your opponent if their Golisopod or whatever can't pick you off. Weezing can be a pain but sun has a lot of options for beating it, including the setters themselves and knocking it can still mean it gets overwhelmed by Shiftry itself in the long run.

:ss/trapinch:
Trapinch @ Choice Band
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- First Impression
- Crunch
- Rock Slide

This one was nicked from the RU thread, but I thought with Gigalith becoming more common that it wouldn't be a bad pick here and it's been pretty nice tbh. I put this here cos I wanted to talk about how great the combination of Arena Trap+First Impression is, as it essentially removes one of First Impression's biggest flaws and can be really useful for revenge killing offensive threats without letting them escape. It doesn't OHKO much stuff unless it's SE, but some of the numbers are still surprisingly good (50-59 on Haxorus, 73.5-86.5 on Roserade, 69 min on Gardevoir which is great cos Trace is annoying for weather teams etc.) Could also have been used to trap Weavile while it was here but hey, still has it's uses. Crunch cos it does a bit more damage vs Reuniclus which is one of the few things you can outspeed, you'll literally never click the other move. It’s just interesting how Trapinch has more going for it than simply trapping slower EQ-weak mons!
 
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Not quite. We have a lot of highly viable Knock Off spammers in the tier that hit pretty hard and always have; Drapion, Escavalier, Mamoswine, Sirfetch'd, Machamp etc. and they're completely healthy (maybe not mamo but it's fine for now lol). The issue with Goon, Daunt, Weavile and Diggersby is that Knock Off was the final straw in allowing them to turn their would-be checks into fodder and giving them a ridiculous matchup vs the rest of the tier; for example, Diggersby previously had to rely on Mega Kick to hit Bronzong and like idk Ice Punch to hit Rotom, but Knock Off solved that by giving it insane coverage (if they gave it Throat Chop the issue would likely be the same, just less pronounced.) Daunt and Goon were just too much for the tier unfortunately and had no real answers, both defensively and offensively. Weavile fills this same criteria; being able to facilitate its own sweep by knocking Weezing's black sludge or Avalugg's boots is enough to send it overboard.

Knock is always gonna be great in a tier that, despite its sheer quantity of ridiculous breakers, is largely based on defensive cores because removing items from these cores is and always has been an effective way to beat them. It just so happens that we had quite a few abusers that also happened to be ridiculous mons otherwise with extremely limited counterplay both offensively and defensively as a result of speed, priority or typing, and that's why they were banned, not really just because they can remove items.
I definitely see your point. Knock is just an incredibly good move because I don't really know of a bad time to click that button. With items (specifically recovery items and heavy duty boots) being so good this gen, it really boosted the strength of the move on a utility level.

I also understand the tiering policy is to stick to mons. I always looked at it more of a which solves more method. If a move pushes a lot of mons over the edge, wouldn't attacking the underlying source be quicker. It does lead down a slippery slope though so I can see why the council would be hesitant to deviate from that policy.
 

Lilburr

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Boi I come from VGC, let me get it:
-First Impression works only the first turn in a Fake Out-esque way;
-Arena Trap traps grounded Pokémon;
-You mentioned Trace Gardevoir, which basically copies your ability.

How is this little ant suppose to live and tell the tale?
The point is that you get ~30% off on Garde and then revenge kill with Trapinch as opposed to the other way around.

To keep this from being a one-liner, just gonna say that these three being gone is pretty huge for psychics and ghosts. Stuff like cm chand, gardevoir, sigilyph etc. all got a lot better with three of their annoyances gone. Interested to see if these mons will be able to shape the tier differently now, will def be trying them out in the coming days.
 
Wow that's a lot of unnecessary bans but ok

Well looks like we have lost another 3 heliolisk counters. It's now harder to revenge kill or VS block. Literally the only VS blocker is hippowdon, and only noivern is naturally faster. FI users still exist, but big win for helio. I'm torn now because I love helio but find those bans unnecessary.
Gard is definitely strong now.

Also walls are even more cancer now which is sad but at least toxic.
 

Twilight

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I really can't comprehend why people complain about an offensive threat being banned because Stall will get better when the playstyle has been at its lowest. I personally found all 3 to be overbearing though I did think Weavile was the easiest to check so I would have been fine with it staying. While everyone is entitled to their own opinion, simply saying how unnecessary and dumb these bans are without elaborating as to why isn't going to get you anywhere. If you want an outcome to potentially change then post your thoughts before voting not after?

Fat Balance and Stall will get better sure, but people seem to think we have no other wallbreakers left in the tier. We have Haxrous, Chandelure, Gardevoir, Machamp, Mamoswine, Lucario, and so many more. Support them well and your matchup against these fatter teams won't be impossible. There are still a limited number of entry hazard removers in the tier so Spikes and Toxic Spikes are still great ways to pressure teams even with the existence of Boots. I've only been able to play a minimal amount of games and make new teams post-ban but it doesn't seem like they change the tier all that much aside from the Psychic-types getting infinitely better with losing Durant and Weavile.


Reuniclus @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 168 HP / 252 SpA / 88 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball / Thunder
- Recover

Reuni had it's peak when Gengar and Goon got banned then started falling off again but with some of it's best offensive checks getting the boot, it gets infinitely better again. I've seen a fair amount of Escavalier, which defo got better and will see more usage but given offensive Reuni can chunk this Mon it isn't too problematic for it, other then Escav being an offensive check. More teams are resorting to Gigalith or Bronzong as the bulky staples, which Reuni has no issue breaking past also. It will obviously still have its issues but Reuni is great rn. I've also been exploring with a CM Toxic/Thunder Wave set, which I think has merits in a few matchups but I'll leave that up to others to try.


Ninetales @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Toxic

I've been using this a decent amount to adapt to the current metagame shifts. Gigalith has been getting a lot better simply because it's the best Chandelure check and is a better Steel-type than most of the ones we have. This rise in usage kinda hurts Ninetales so I've been using Toxic to punish it. Toxic also lets it put Pokemon like Vaporeon, Milotic, and Mantine on a timer if it isn't ideal enough to try and set up a Nasty Plot. Noivern doesn't appreciate a Toxic especially if it wants to fulfill the role of a Defog or Taunt user. Centiskorch and Chandelure have a good amount of usage also, which Toxic also lets it cripple. This is the main reason I prefer it to Will-O-Wisp because being walled by Chandy blows in this meta with how few things want to pivot into it. I personally think this is the best set because Specs just struggles a lot with Giga usage rising but I still think not enough people have caught on to how strong a breaker Ninetales is. Use it more!

I'm interested to see how the meta develops though I really hope the shifts change stuff up and give us some of the new Mons that were recently added like Cobalion, Celebi, Necrozma etc. just so we get more variety when it comes to SR users. It gets rather formulaic having to rotate between the same 4-5.
 

Adaam

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Hello everyone. You may have heard that I am a hardcore Chandelure stan. I even voted for it to be S rank in the UU viability rankings thread (that's right, I am a part of the VR council). Choice sets are cool and all, but here is what I think is its best set by far:

Chandelure @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flash Fire
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hex
- Flamethrower

Observe that it is shiny. Also, Wisp cripples nearly all of its traditional checks such as Gigalith, Drapion, and Umbreon. In fact, a burned Umbreon laughably becomes setup fodder as Foul Play does 20%. Bulky Water-types switch in once since they are nearly helpless after that while burned and against a +1 Chandy. Without SpDef investment, you don't even need to boost then. Burn boosted Hexes smash Milotic, Vaporeon, and Mantine, and they obviously don't outspeed you so you comfortably tank the 1v1. Here's a replay of it smashing a team with both Gastrodon and Umbreon (yes I got a Flamethrower burn on Gastro but it won the 1v1 anyway) https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1071489038.

The only true counter to this beast is Snorlax. which is uncommon. We will likely get Incineroar, so Chandy won't get too out of hand. On an unrelated note, why are people running Frisk Noivern? What's wrong with you? Use Infiltrator please
 

Juno

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Usage stats for March are out! Boy these ones were a doozy...


Hippowdon moved from UU to OU
Torkoal moved from RU to OU
Blastoise moved from OU to UU
Celebi moved from OU to UU
Cobalion moved from OU to UU
Corsola moved from OU to UU
Decidueye moved from OU to UU
Dugtrio-Alola moved from OU to UU
Farfetch'd moved from OU to UU
Gyarados moved from OU to UU
Incineroar moved from OU to UU
Linoone moved from OU to UU
Meltan moved from OU to UU
Necrozma moved from OU to UU
Ninetales-Alola moved from OU to UU
Persian-Alola moved from OU to UU
Primarina moved from OU to UU
Raichu-Alola moved from OU to UU
Rapidash moved from OU to UU
Rotom-Mow moved from OU to UU
Stunfisk moved from OU to UU
Toxtricity moved from OU to UU
Venusaur moved from OU to UU
Virizion moved from OU to UU
Weezing moved from OU to UU
 
Here are some toughts and expectatives that I have about some of the mons that dropped to UU

Blastoise.png
Blastoise
Blastoise @ White Herb
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Dark Pulse

Blastoise @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Body Press/Ice Beam
- Toxic
I see Blastoise running an offensive set with Shell Smash, able to break teams, however this set can be difficult to work for how common are Milotic and Vaporeon that can completely check Blastpise by just using Haze. Also, maybe kind of gimmick, but I tought on a defensive set with Rapid Spin, able to check Rhypherior, Gigalith and No-Toxic Bronzong, Body Press helps to deal with Umbreon, Toxic criples other bulky waters switch ins like Milo or Vapo, or even Ice Beam to hit Noivern.

Celebi.png
Celebi
Celebi @ Leftovers/ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Giga Drain
- Psychic
- Earth Power

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
- Stealth Rock
- U-turn
- Recover
- Giga Drain
I like how this mon looks in order to check Milotic without problems, Stab Grass moves, able to heal Burn/Toxic status, set up rocks, I really like NP set, a problem that celebi has is how common First Imprission is, being easy to rk or force a Switch, this mon is a big offensive threat but not broken, checked anybody with First Imprission and by Noivern. Also I put there a more defensive set, but those evs can be changed, the speed evs allows to outspeed 95 base speed mons. Really cool mon

Cobalion.png
Cobalion
Cobalion @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance/Taunt
- Iron Head
- Close Combat
- Stealth Rock
Memories from USUM UU, Cobalion is a good offensive rocker, no longer Z moves to boost CC is quite annoying for this mon, but can still working, is checked by Noivern, Chandelure, any Bulky water mon. Taunt can help to avoid Defog from other mons or Recover from stuff like Milo.

Gyarados.png
Gyarados
Gyarados @ Leftovers/Lum Berry
Ability: Intimidate/Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly/Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Power Whip/Taunt
Well, ngl, I see this mon kind of overpower for the tier, with Adamant nature after a single DD is able to outspeed anything in the meta without Choice Scarf, and deal massive damage, Bulky waters can lose a 1v1 taking in count now Gyarados has acces to Power Whip, Taunt helps to deal with WoW Gweez, Eq hits stuffs like Duraludon and Doublade, Leftovers helps to deal with tries to RK with First Imprission, even has acces to Stone Edge for Noivern and Golisopod. Also Moxie allows to snowball an entire team. I can see this mon being checked just by Scarf electric mons.This mon will have a lot to talk in the metagame.

Linoone.png
Linoone
Linoone @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Gluttony
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Belly Drum
- Extreme Speed
- Seed Bomb/Stomping Tantrum
- Play Rough
Not going to talk a lot about this mon, maybe can work on HO teams, but no more than that, at least it has good coverage to hit Rock/Steel mons.

Necrozma.png
Necrozma
Necrozma @ Leftovers
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 104 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 148 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Photon Geyser/Psychic Fangs
- Earthquake
- Moonlight

Necrozma @ Leftovers
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 108 HP / 252 SpA / 148 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Heat Wave
- Moonlight
- Photon Geyser
Another ofensive set up sweeper mon, speed evs allows to outspeed some stuff like Sirfetchd and no speed investments Milotic, this mon also can work on an offensive sr setter set. It can be checked by almost any Dark type ( Cof Cof Umbreon ), bulky waters, Toxic Status and First Imprission revenge kill. Really cool mon to give a try

Alolan_Ninetales.png
Alolan Ninetales
Ninetales-Alola @ Light Clay
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Aurora Veil
- Blizzard
- Freeze-Dry
- Hypnosis
Like I said with Linoone, I see this mon just on HO builds, not to much to add, Hypnosis is annoying for slower or bulky mons, also Freeze Dry helps to deal with bulky waters.

Primarina.png
Primarina
Primarina @ Choice Specs
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Moonblast
- Energy Ball
- Psychic

Primarina @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Sleep Talk/Moonblast
- Rest
I like this mon, CM blessed Primarina now having acces to set up and become a threat, also Specs is a good set for direct pressure, having acces to a secondary fairy stab and energy ball to hit even harder Milotic makes good sinergy, also, here I posted a CM set trying to reply Suicune.... but it doesnt look that good, but anyways CM stills being a good tool for this mon.

Rotom_Mow.png
Rotom Mow
Rotom-Mow @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Leaf Storm
- Volt Switch
- Trick
Welcome back old friend :'). I really enjoyed this mon during UU Beta with scarf set, there is also the option of NP set, now we are not annymore limited to Heliolisk for a Volt Switch user, also Leaf Storm is a good secondary stab. Really like to have this mon here again.

Toxtricity_grave_icon.png
Toxtricity
Toxtricity @ Choice Scarf/Choice Specs
Ability: Punk Rock
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Overdrive
- Sludge Wave
- Volt Switch
- Boomburst
And like Rotom Mow, now we have another viable Volt Switch user, good typing for an offensive pivot, can check Gweez and Milotic, however Toxtricity doesn't have something that Heliolisk and Rotom have, good coverage, really, this mon doesn't do anything against Rhypherior, that is our best ground type, at least it could be able to hit Hippo with Boomburst, but Hippo let us ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Venusaur.png
Venusaur
Venusaur @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Solar Beam
- Sludge Bomb
- Sunny Day
- Weather Ball
Sun teams are not as common as they were during the Dynamax Metagame, but Venusaur has good tools to take advantage to the sun, sadly we can not use Torkoal now, but there is the option of Ninetales, nothing is safe to Switch in to Venusaur under sun, even steel types get a chunk by Fire Type Weather Ball.

That is all the new mons that I see viable on the current meta, happy new meta everyone!
 
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