np SS UU Stage 2 - Here Comes The Sun (Gyarados & Primarina BANNED)

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Ausma

Formerly mangarrow
Hello! After some moderate testing, I'm here to bring attention to a Necrozma tech I don't think has really been discussed yet, and despite what it seems, it remedies a gigantic issue with its cleaning special sets that makes team support mandatory: 4MSS.

As we know, special Necrozma sets mandate the use of Autotomize/Polish in order to remedy its subpar speed stat. While power is certainly not an issue, speed is. In fact, a majority of the tier outspeeds it if it isn't running Dragon Dance or Autotomize/Polish, meaning that if you want to run CM + 3 Attacks and sweep, you would need to run Webs or have some sort of speed control to break down threats that are faster than Necrozma. While this set is a fantastic wallbreaker, it is very inconsistent as a cleaner; the problem with sweeping with it is the fact that this in of itself requires notable team support, and is unreliable due to switching and hazard removal acting as constant variables. On the contrary, if you opt to run Auto + CM + 2 Attacks, you lose an extremely valuable third move that makes you lose out on extremely important coverage. If you opt to run Heat Wave, you lose out on beating Dark types (namely Incineroar) 1v1, and if you opt to run Earth Power, you lose to Bronzong 1v1. This issue severely limits the scope of CM Necrozma's sweeping potential with the notoriety of its defensive checks.

However, the unspoken variable of Necrozma's standard set up sets, Weakness Policy, is something that is seldom talked about. Unless you're running a defensive/utility variant, Weakness Policy is almost mandatory. But, after testing this tech, I disagree when it comes to its Special sets. You already are rocking Base 127 Special Attack off of 3 hypothetically powerful moves, one of which is a strong base 100 BP STAB move. Instead, what is there that we can run?

Salac Berry Necrozma.

You're kidding, right?

No, it's not a joke. Here's the set:

:sm/necrozma:

Necrozma @ Salac Berry
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Earth Power
- Photon Geyser
- Heat Wave / Dark Pulse


Most people would call this set incredibly niche, however, this set heavily remedies standard CM sets' 4MSS issue. Thanks to Salac Berry's ability to provide Necrozma with a great speed boost without need of a fourth move, Necrozma is allotted with an extra, valuable move slot. I've found that Earth Power/Geyser are mandatory, as together they nail the tier nearly universally outside of key threats like Bronzong or Claydol, and due to the Dark types of the tier sharing a Ground weakness, Earth Power helps remedy this issue. However, this is where the fourth move comes into play. Depending on what you need, Dark Pulse and Heat Wave are both very viable options to cleave any extra check that challenges Necrozma in the late game. Additionally, if you run Modest, Calm Mind isn't even entirely necessary, and a fourth coverage move can even be run over it thanks to Necrozma's already insanely impressive Special Attack stat to run as an all out attacking set.

Modest is optional, however, I enjoy it since it allows for me to threaten foes immediately on switchin without necessitating a CM boost. Overall, in my experience, Modest gives Necrozma more flexibility as an offensive breaker with a pretty safe speed tier of 385 outspeeding the entirety of the tier without a boost/Scarf.

Due to Necrozma's surprising immediate bulk in conjunction with Prism Armor, getting into range of the berry's activation is a surprisingly easy feat, especially if you run pivots such as Parting Shot Incineroar to help control the damage output the opponent dishes out to you. Most SE moves will put you just in range of the berry's activation, letting you either get a free, powerful blow, or getting a necessary boost to cleave the tier's most common defensive cores. Chandelure's Shadow Ball and Haxorus's First Impression are the best examples that comes to mind, as you can not only survive the respective moves and net a huge KO, but set up for late game cleaning by getting your necessary speed boost while simultaneously knocking out a key threat. On top of this, this set is an effective anti-sun spread as well. It is a phenomenal Venusaur/Ninetales/Heliolisk bait due to its inherently low speed stat and underestimated defenses, as it can get into Salac range from many of these Pokemon's attacks, KO them with Photon Geyser/Earth Power/Heat Wave, and then perform a reverse sweep.

252 SpA Chandelure Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Prism Armor Necrozma: 234-276 (69.8 - 82.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Guaranteed boost after rocks)
252 Atk Choice Band Haxorus First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Prism Armor Necrozma: 240-283 (71.6 - 84.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Guaranteed boost after rocks)
+2 252+ Atk Doublade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Prism Armor Necrozma: 190-225 (56.7 - 67.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Almost guaranteed after rocks)
252+ SpA Life Orb Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Necrozma: 192-227 (57.3 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Almost guaranteed after rocks)
252 SpA Ninetales Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Necrozma in Sun: 217-256 (64.7 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Almost guaranteed after rocks)
252 SpA Solar Power Heliolisk Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Necrozma in Sun: 214-253 (63.8 - 75.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Almost guaranteed after rocks)

Most of these require prior chip, however, they are able to be conditioned with hazards.

Overall, the main niche of this variant is not only to remedy 4MSS, but also allow for Necrozma to dish out powerful damage without needing to render itself passive to get a Speed boost. It can bait many offensive plays, which results in huge KOs that effectively allow you to even reverse sweep your opponent, capitalizing on what Necrozma does best in prying foes apart in an unpredictable fashion. It's not a perfect tech, as Umbreon and bulky waters still wall it to oblivion, meaning you will need prior damage or a Poison before you can start cleaning. This goes for offensive Necrozma sets as a whole, but it is especially an issue here since Stored Power is less consistent as a move with Salac Berry over Weakness Policy. Priority is also a problem if you are already whittled down to Salac's activation range, meaning priority abusers like Mamoswine and Sirfetch'd should be eliminated before setting up.

While my opponent played strangely here, you can see Prism Armor's utility and the sheer strength that only one CM is able to dish out. This is low ladder, however, as I was using my ironically low ladder main to work out the quirks in my squad. I'll be getting more later!
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1076819503

Another replay where the utility of getting a passive boost through Salac Berry comes into clutch. I'm able to keep putting offensive pressure on my opponent and get blown into range of my Salac to get a necessary speed boost and ravage the opposing Noivern.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1077276798

A replay where Necrozma straight 6-0s against a standard UU balance squad. This replay is a testament to its strength and the sheer utility of having a 3rd offensive moveslot available for it.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1077325382

Hopefully you guys find use in this tech! :>
 
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jeronipuff

formerly TheTrueLegendary
Modest is optional, however, I enjoy it since it allows for me to threaten foes immediately on switchin without necessitating a CM boost. Overall, Modest gives Necrozma more versatility as an offensive breaker. However, this variant makes you slower than Noivern even with a Salac boost, so be prepared!
Just wanted to let you know, modest does outspeed timid Noivern after the +1 speed boost. Noivern hits 379 and Necro hits 385.
 

Hogg

grubbing in the ashes
is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris an Administrator
UU & Tour Head
The UU Council will be voting on Primarina and Gyarados.

:sm/primarina:

One of the best breakers of SM UU, the Sun and Moon starter is back with a vengeance. With one of the highest Special Attacks in the tier and a devastating dual STAB combo, the list of Pokemon that can safely switch into a Choice Specs Primarina is vanishingly small. With no Blissey, Amoongus or Empoleon to keep it in check, there is very little to discourage it from clicking Hydro Pump or Moonblast. And while other breakers such as Haxorus or Gardevoir may be faster, Primarina's natural bulk and excellent defensive typing gives it many opportunities to come in and wreak havoc. It also received a new toy this generation in Calm Mind, potentially making it even deadlier.

:sm/gyarados:

Right after the tier shift, Gyarados veil teams were taking the ladder by storm. Immense Attack, decent bulk, Dragon Dance and two fantastic abilities in Moxie and Intimidate make Gyarados very difficult to deal with once it starts going. While the banning of Alolan Ninetales stemmed the tide a bit, Gyarados is still a major threat capable of completely steamrolling teams even without the benefits of Aurora Veil. While it does have some reliable checks, such as Scarf Rotom-Mow, the new addition of Power Whip to its moveset makes it extremely difficult to counter, especially before its final move is revealed: will it be packing Power Whip for bulky Waters, Bounce for Grass types and a strong neutral attack or Taunt/Substitute to help set up on things like Galarian Weezing? All in all it remains perhaps the single most dangerous sweeper in the tier.

The council will have until Friday, March 13 at 9 PM GMT -4 to submit their votes on Primarina and Gyarados. In the meantime, please discuss your thoughts on the two here and how you'd like to see the council vote.
 
hello!

I will be voting ban on both rina and gyara for the following reasons:

Primarina:

People frequently say "*insert mon here* has zero switch-ins" as a common platitude, but primarina legitimately has zero viable switch-ins. This, coupled with solid bulk and one of the best defensive typings in the game means that an aggressive double or even a t1 lead is likely netting you a kill. It's an incredibly low-risk mon to use on next to every playstyle, as its typing allows it to freely switch in on passive mons and proceed to click either one of its STABs or ice beam/psychic, beating all of its counterplay barring fully spdef ferroseed. If you run into a primarina and are playing versus someone who can play with even a modicum of aggression, you're going to be having to choose which mon to sack at one point or another. This is inherently uncompetitive, while also centralizing the meta around primarina, two core indicators that a mon is broken.

Continuing, primarina's strong defensive typing and respectable bulk means that it can be inordinately hard to revenge, further adding to its unhealthy nature. This is exacerbated by the fact that we lack an abundance of mons that can actually OHKO the mon. As a result, you'll frequently find yourself being almost guaranteed to sack at least one mon, one on the initial switch-in and another on the attempt to revenge the mon. This warps gameplay to an incredibly uncompetitive and thus unhealthy degree.

In sum, primarina's lack of direct switch-ins coupled with its raw power and ability to withstand being revenge killed makes it incredibly unhealthy in the current metagame.

Ban.


Gyarados:

I was initially skeptical towards gyara's brokenness once the veil ban was put into place, as it had several glaring flaws. It wasn't obscenely fast, it had a rocks weakness, and it had four moveslot syndrome to a profound degree. The latter point, in my opinion, was eventually negated by the fact that gyara can muscle through legitimately every matchup with the proper moveset. It's not a matter of being unable to run every move it wants, but rather the ability of three separate moves to beat legitimately every core and matchup. This creates a sense of immense uncertainty, essentially leaving your build up to the whims of the gyara set you're facing. I believe this to be largely unhealthy, as the sheer number of viable moves on gyarados allows it to break through legitimately every matchup it may face.

While gyara's low speed, even at +1, might make some of you believe that the mon isnt broken, all of the mons that may revenge gyarados, of which the list is incredibly finite, lose to gyara's coverage. Heliolisk loses to earthquake and power whip (with chip), whereas flygon loses to ice fang and gyara's two stabs (albeit with a good amount of chip). Outside of these two mons, the amount of viable speed control mons that can actually hurt gyara are next to none. Moxie also adds to gyara's brokenness, as it allows it to further break through potential defensive cores. Essentially, once the ball gets rolling, it's next to impossible to stop.

Ultimately, gyara's diverse movepool and its resulting ability to beat all of its counterplay, coupled with its raw strength and ability to clean at +1 make it too overbearing for the current metagame to manage.

Ban.
 

Ausma

Formerly mangarrow
Ah yes, the two big boys of the drops. I'll keep my thoughts on them relatively concise.

:sm/primarina:

Upon its drop, I admittedly underestimated the potential of the siren. Not only is it an extremely difficult to handle breaker, but it's also dangerous if you telegraph it wrong. If you switch expecting a Specs move, a single Calm Mind can be all it takes before it becomes neigh impossible to break due to its incredible defensive typing and surprising bulk. Contrarily, if you expect a Calm Mind and try to break it right then and there, it could nail you with a Specs Hydro/Moonblast and completely pry open a potential win-con. On the opposite end of the spectrum, I feel like its speed tier and natural physical bulk leave much to be desired, especially now that we have things like Toxtricity running amok in the tier, but this is easily able to be remedied, and brings us back to the initial problem of Primarina by nature. It's because of this inherent danger as well as its overall suffocating practicality as an offensive Pokemon that I'm admittedly kind of mixed on Primarina.

Overall, I am not really liking how deadly its dual STABs are in the tier without those that so effectively walled it last gen, no matter whether you're able to telegraph it or not. The biggest issue it has is the fact that it lacks a real consistent switch-in/genuine defensive check, and the loss of the defensive behemoths of Gen 7 UU made Primarina a particular problem offensively. Due to how potent every one of its sets are at breaking due to a lack of a genuine defensive check, and how dangerous a single slip up can be if you wrongfully predict, I feel like a ban could be warranted for the meantime. However, I believe it should be retested depending on what new Pokemon we get in the coming DLC. But, at the moment, the tier struggles to handle it.

:sm/gyarados:
You, on the other hand...

I think this thing is the issue of Primarina amped up to 11. Unlike Primarina it has both the ability to snowball and remedy its already great speed for the tier thanks to both Moxie and Dragon Dance. It usually does run one type of set, but the issue is that you tend to have no idea as to what exact 3 moves it will be running. This can consequentially require several sacks/considerable damage before figuring this out. By this point your potential check would have already been worn down to the point of no longer really checking it, or Moxie will have given it the firepower to break it anyway. Speaking of Moxie, the ability makes its situation even more problematic, as given how powerful its typing and incredible coverage is, it's extremely easy to auto lose a game after one Dragon Dance.

I feel like no matter what we get in the coming DLC, Gyarados is an easy ban due to how it can easily pry open its checks in the tier due to Moxie, and how telegraphing its phenomenal coverage only results in extreme consequence and even a loss regardless of what you do. A testament to how dangerous it is is how it is able to warp the offensive metagame around it, and force Toxtricity/Rotom to run Choice Scarf and lose out on a lot of wallbreaking ability just to soft check it. Which, mind you, isn't even guaranteed due to it already outspeeding Scarf Toxtricity after a single Dragon Dance. For these reasons, I would ban this and not look back.
 
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Pak

hydeout
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past Smogon Snake Draft Champion
Hello, might as well throw in some vote reasoning too. I feel like both of these mons are pretty much universally seen as ban-worthy, but still, might as well. This tier has been bananas (and unhealthy) in a kind of fun way mostly due to these beasts, but yeah, we should probably do something about them.

So the main one I wanted to talk about is Primarina. I don't want to touch too too much about its raw power with a wall of calcs or anything like that. It's strengths are all pretty well documented, also including its ridiculous coverage and defensive utility/offensive opportunities naturally brought about by its amazing typing. The main thing that's really stuck out to me between this gen and last gen in relation to Primarina is the ridiculously expanded emphasis on positioning around it. This was a notion I alluded to a bunch last gen when it came to a lot of our broken-on-paper offensive threats like Terrak, Specs Prim, Crawdaunt (look how he turned out this gen too), etc. With the huge cut of mons in generation 8, we lost a lot of power creep and also a good portion of our valuable pivots/defensive glues like Amoonguss and Tentacruel and all them. Things like Specs Primarina and CB Daunt earlier on have too much leeway coupled with their outrageous damage output. For the vast majority of my games played in this meta, I used a fairly up-tempo bulky offensive team, being Noivern/Roserade/Cobalion/Incineroar/Specs Prim/Rhyperior. In theory, these types of teams should be able to limit its offensive opportunities enough to get by, especially considering I had Volt/U-turn/Parting Shot on 4 Pokemon, also while having a good theoretical offensive check. The amount of times I ended up harding into Incin predicting Ice Beam/Psychic was pretty upsetting. Now of course teams aren't always going to have stellar matchups versus every top threat, which are held on that pedestal for a reason. My point here is that Primarina finds way too many opportunities to just grab kills left and right in this meta, and there isn't enough flexibility in-game or in the builder to sufficiently limit them. Ban.

I don't have too much to add on Gyarados. I don't think it's as overbearing as Primarina by any means, but its coverage options to beat pretty much anything it wants along, with its strain on the builder are a bit too much imo. Like Yeezy said, it really doesn't have 4MSS in that it needs more moves to do its job effectively. Its hordes of possible coverage/utility moves are more of luxuries than anything on top of its already-monstrous sweeping capabilities. You can scout around its moves all you want, but have fun letting it chunk your team to do so, or keep throwing miscellaneous scarf electrics on all your teams without a thought to prevent it altogether. Ban this thing too.
 
1584034528574.png

I've been screwing around lately in the 1450s-1500s and i might as well give my thoughts.
1584022438417.pngPrimarina: This is no big surprise, but I want this thing out. It's so degenerative to face, because there is little to nothing stopping it from clicking its dual stab due to basically 0 things that want to eat hits from it, (Sound familiar? HINT: Water/Dark and had Adaptability)It also doesn't help that it's typing and bulk are godlike and lets it switch into just about any passive mon and just wreak havoc. It sure as hell doesn't help that 3 of the only things that could switch into it such as Emp, Moongus, Blissey, Tenta are cut from the games. However, I agree that it could be retested come the DLCs, due to Chansey's confirmation, and by result, the aforementioned Blissey. All, in all, get this thing out.

1584034625356.png
Gyarados: I'm gonna be honest, when A-Tales was banned, i thought, surely it might be a top tier threat, but not over the top broken, right? WRONG. It's still completely miserable due to the fact has an incredible strain on the meta game, and forces you to run electric coverage after electric coverage on all your scarfers. And even then, it STILL might screw you over if it gets an extra DD. Snowballing is absolutely no problem for this mon due to also having good bulk and typing, which lets it resist First Impression, one of the more used revenge killing moves. To be frank, this is most likely even more stupid than Prim, and that definitely warrants a ban.
 
:primarina:

We all know how good is specs primarina .Unlike Gardevoir,his stab combo is unresisted for the majority of tier which restrict building on more fat builds and he can compleltely shut down offensives build thanks to it's defensive typing.
The few pokemons that resists his dual stab on the tier are roserade and venusaur who are 2hko by psychic/ice beam.
Broken?Yes
Not to mention others set like sub+cm,cm+rest,cm+toxic to setup infinitely on bulky waters,the ridiculously defensive rest-talk.
As they say on the posts above,prim give too much utility for his wallbreaking potential and unpredictability.Ban

:gyarados:

Forces scarf electric type or scarf with electric coverage to beat it at +1.Like primarina,he doesn't have real counters thank's to his coverage and utility options
(Rotom-mow,noivern can't handle ice fang variants with bit chip damages,bulky waters get destroyed by power whip,bronzong by crunch,or he set a sub)
As a dd user he doesn't need much to be threatening,thus he should deserve ban.
 

Lilburr

windless night
is a Pre-Contributor
Going to go against popular opinion for once and say that I don't think Primarina is as unbearable to face as Gyarados.

:ss/primarina:
Seems unlikely I've just been running into poor users at this point, I've played far too many games for that. I don't think Primarina is the most overpowering offensive threat in the tier by any means. It's absolutely lacking switchins, can't deny that at all, but its STAB moves are at least somewhat abusable; we have phenomenal Water resists in Vaporeon, Milotic, Heliolisk etc. and strong Fairy resists in Bronzong, Togedemaru :) and Venusaur/Roserade. The issue is that it can, of course, bypass these things with coverage. Personally I've started running Protect more often to scout Prim and Haxorus among other things. It helps significantly with the matchups and doesn't cost much on a lot of mons, tbh; Bronzong can run it pretty freely, Celebi can often fit it in, etc. and they don't have to sacrifice a whole lot because it helps with more than just the Prim MU. Of course, this is before you factor in CM Prim.

CM Prim is another beast entirely. We really lack answers to this thing - I've seen Power Whip Venusaurs, and Leaf Blade Celebis in an attempt to handle it, which is definitely the sign of it being unhealthy. Offensive CM, Rest Talk CM, SubCM and my personal invention CM Snore are all very threatening and are pretty much the nail in the coffin for any balance team lacking Haze Vaporeon or Milotic. This would be what sets it over the edge for me, the specs sets are good but pale in comparison. On the basis of the CM sets and not the other ones, I'm going for ban, but not nearly as strongly as I want to ban Gyarados.

:ss/gyarados:
Broken waters come in twos, I guess! Except this one's actually broken.
There are no counters. You cannot name one. They do not exist. What beats this thing is decided purely by the fact that it doesn't have the moveslots to fit all the coverage moves it wants but that doesn't even matter because it can get perfect coverage with just 3 moves and sweep 4 turns in no matter what you have in the back. I think this is even more broken than it was in the veil meta because at least then we had freezedry to revenge and we could get veil up to allow a mon to take a hit, but that's gone out the window now.
Flygons are running Thunder Punch. Heliolisks are being scarfed. Golisopods are running Rock Slide. This isn't okay at all. It needs to go. It's too bulky, too fast, too strong and has too much coverage to ever be allowed down here. Maybe post DLC, but I really doubt it. Please ban Gyarados.


And finally, I'd like to spark discussion on one last thing; I don't necessarily think this is 100% broken, but I've been finding it to be more and more of an issue lately.

:ss/mamoswine:
No matter what the tier or gen is, Mamo is always a pokemon with no switchins. However, recently I've started to feel like this is getting worse and worse. I have to put physdef milo or physdef vap on every team if I want any semblance of defensive counterplay, or I have to make incredibly risky plays with my Flygons or Noiverns to pivot around its moves. It's not frail, either; 110/80/60 bulk is surprisingly good in this meta and lets it easily tank things like First Impression if needs be. It's mainly the addition of Knock Off back to its movepool that's been bothering me bc I can't rely on anything to switch into it anymore, Bronzong gets smashed and if I lose my lefties on my bulky water I'm screwed. There isn't too much that can pressure it offensively either bc a lot of the faster mons in the tier (Flygon, Noivern, Heliolisk) are really vulnerable to LO Ice Shard. I'm sure I'm gonna get "wahhh ban every breaker" comments but w/e, this feels slightly unhealthy and while I don't think it should be banned just yet, it should at least be on the radar.
 
If Galarian Slowbro isn’t water/psychic with regenerator I’m done. The best balance Pokemon in the game and I’ve always had great times using it in the darkest of metas, remember using it to counter Conkeldurr in early gen 7 UU with a colbur berry. As well as killing Weaviles left and right who thought they could actually trap me. It checked and countered basically everything all with a dopey smile on its face. Speaking of Mamoswine, if we get no counters in the dlc (like regular Slowbro) we should suspect it. Haxorus has no counters right now but several checks, it’s also fairly frail. Some people will complain but if we get zilch counters/checks in the dlc we should suspect it as well. You start to realize just how unstoppable Hacorus is defensively when you fully take Mold Breaker into account. All those levitate Pokémon that would work otherwise such as Bronzong and Weezing get smacked. Unconventional checks like Bewear and Pyukumuku also stand no chance thanks to this. Even Shedinja gets bopped (by both of them, Mamoswine’s knock off). I believe the ideal tier prioritizes balance teams and with these impossible to counter Pokemon it really destroys any possibility of that ideal. A tier like this existed back in Gen 6 UU, everything was counterable yet stall wasn’t as oppressive as Gen 7. Suicune dominated that tier but it stood out as the face of balance teams representing the tier. It would be great to mold the tier with that ideal in mind, every Pokemon has at least one counter.
 
Maybe kind of late to share opinions about both Primarina and Gyarados, but I anyways wanna talk about them.

Primarina:
:ss/primarina:
Actually 0 reliable switch ins, Fairy and Water stabs are good to offfesne, really, this mon with specs is able to just site there and spam Hydropump/Moonblast and deal a lot of damage. Gardevoir is able to spam Specs Moonblast too, however Gardevoir has less bulk and is easier to revenge kill and also reliable switch ins on stuff like Gigalith and Bronzong, Primarina is difficult to revenge kill and mons like Gigalith/Rhypherior and Umbreln are good partners that are able to deal with mons that want to rk like Toxtricity and Celebi. I faced people running 2 or 3 mons just to check Primarina, in my opinion the best core to deal with Primarina is SpDef Venusaur + Bronzong but with correct prediction can be broke. Also CM sets can be annoying if u are expecting Specs, but Specs is able to cover anything. Primarina needs to leave.

Gyarados:
:ss/gyarados:
When this mon dropped I completely expected it to be broken and be quickbanned. A lot of people will be dissapointed with me, but I feel like Gyarados doesn't really need to be banned. Ik it can deal with all its checks, Power Whip deals with Bulky waters, EQ hits Steel Types and Toxtricity, Taunt denny Gweez/Incineroar WoW, Bronzong Toxic and rare Haze Vapo/Milo, Crunch hits Bronzong and Celebi, Bounce is a good secondary stab, Ice Fang hits Noivern and Rotom-Mow. Also able to run a lot of items, Leftovers, Boots,Lum Berry, Power Herb and rare Wacan Berry. I feel like the tier has adapted to Gyarados, Gyarados needs some chip to really sweep, G-Weezing can check it by using WoW/Toxic and spam Strange Steam or T-Bolt (Ik people run T-Bolt G-Weezing just for Gyara, I even made a jk when gyara droppen about seeing G-Weezing running T-Bolt just for Gyarados and it happend, lol), Umbreon can tank a +2 Jolly Waterfall even without Defense evs and OHKO with Foul Play, Taunt Noivern/Cobalion can annoy a try of DD. I feel that this mon isn't that broken, it can deal with those checks but really depends on the set that u are running and even playying I didn't find that difficult to play around Gyarados, almost most of the time Cobalion + G-Weezing a nice core was able to deal with it without a lot of risk. So for me, is not a bann.
 

TDK

is a Community Leaderis a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
UU Leader
sup



The UU Council has voted to BAN both Gyarados and Primarina from SS UU. Tagging The Immortal and Marty to make the change when they have the chance.

:Gyarados:
The former Dynamax menace now drops to UU as of this month, and it has made a big splash in the tier. Gyarados has so many tools at its disposal now; its coverage options are incredible in this tier with over five viable moves to go alongside Dragon Dance, the utility of Heavy-Duty Boots, and an extreme lacking in viable physically bulky Pokemon. Between Boots and Gyarados' newest move, Power Whip, it's very hard to handle. Power Whip allows Gyarados to nail every bulky Water-type, as well as let Gyarados drop Water coverage if the user so pleases, as it still hits Ground-types very hard.

Even with the departure of Aurora Veil from the tier, Gyarados is still the perfect setup sweeper. It has Dragon Dance, a no drawback STAB, a multitude of good coverage options, and Moxie to further the snowballing. It is extremely difficult to handle Gyarados, the most reliable method being Scarf Rotom-Mow. Defensive options can't do anything more than sit and hope Gyarados does not have the appropriate filler move, whether it be coverage or Taunt/Substitute. Offensive options cannot reliably switch into Gyarados, and must outspeed after a Dragon Dance. All in all, while not a unanimous decision from the Council (8-3 with one abstain), there is no doubt that Gyarados is the most threatening setup sweeper the tier has seen since Hawlucha was banned at the very start of the tier.

:Primarina:
One of the most notable breakers from SM UU returns, but this time there is no Blissey. Much like Gyarados, Primarina got a notable addition with this generation; Calm Mind. Although it is not quite as useful as Power Whip is to Gyarados, it bolsters Primarina's options. Primarina, quite frankly, was a guaranteed kill every time it entered the field against something unable to kill it in one shot, bar some obscene exceptions. Specs Primarina could not be switched into; non-Specs trades immediate power for making it even harder to revenge kill; Calm Mind makes it even harder for things like Celebi and Toxtricity to offensively check it. Between all of its options, it was quite frankly the most fearsome Pokemon to face off against.

The decision to ban was unanimous from the Council; all 12 people voted to ban it. Primarina really did not have viable countermeasures, unlike in SM. Just comparing the two generations, there is no Blissey, Amoonguss, Empoleon, or Tentacruel, as well as offensive Pokemon that threatened Primarina, such as Scizor, no longer being within the tier. On top of the fact Primarina now gets Calm Mind, adding a whole new element to consider when taking it on. Ultimately, Primarina was banned because of the Choice Specs set, which simply has no viable counterplay.


Hope everyone enjoys playing SS UU and stays safe during the pandemic going on.

 

Moutemoute

Moot-Moot
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Alright so I waited to talk about this Pokemon because we were voting on Primarina and Gyarados and because those two were a threat to the Pokemon I'd like to talk about. Luckily now they're gone so let's talk about an underrated defensive Pokemon : Runerigus !


Runerigus @ Leftovers
Ability: Wandering Spirit
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Protect / Shadow Claw / Earthquake
- Will-O-Wisp / Toxic Spikes / Shadow Claw / Earthquake
- Body Press
Runerigus is a pretty cool and useful Pokemon in the current metagame notably as a Toxtricity counter but also a great check to Cobalion, SD Lucario, Machamp (thanks to its ability), physical variants of Necrozma or Flygon. Much like Golurk, Runerigus can fulfill this role thanks to its pretty unique typing. But Runerigus is much more bulky and isn't just a check to those threats since it can support its teammates thanks to Stealth Rock or Toxic Spikes. It's also not that passive thanks to Body Press and it's really good defense. Overall Runerigus is a solid pick in my opinion in balanced teams.
 
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I’m officially a BL knight for OU now.Durant is my favorite Pokémon,Gyrados has carried for ass since I started Comp,Crawdaunt is a beast,Weavile is another one I love and even though I don’t like Diggersby I’ll use it.Also I’d use Primarina but then my team is half water so Hawlucha is is
 
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