np: SS UU Stage 5: Change is Gonna Come (Diggersby & Venusaur BANNED)

As a VGC player, I've been keen with UU but I've been so busy with the university (the semester just finished so I have a lot of free time at the moment). June's tier shifts and unban pokemon are crazy. I've been building hyper offense teams with Grimmsnarl in UU and see how it's going.
grimmsnarl.gif

I feel like Grimmsnarl is too effective at what it does. As a screen setter, the typing is great for Grimmsnarl because it's immune to Prankster ability and having taunt to prevent Stealth Rock/Defog. It's impossible to stop Grimmsnarl to set up Screens and OHKO Grimmsnarl immediately. It enables a lot of pokemon to become broken, such as Aegislash, Terrakion, Scolipede, Necrozma, Cloyster and many pokemon. Aegislash and SD LO Terrakion under the screens are ridiculous, Aegislash can run SD or WP Autotomize and blow past anything. Terrakion have literally 0 defensive counterplay after SD with a great speed tier and offensive typing. Scolipede and Necrozma under the screen are difficult to stop as well with SD and DD, respectively.
Grimmsnarl makes it difficult to revenge killed boosted pokemon, and it provides too way much utility to be in UU in my opinions.
 

Moutemoute

It's not haxx if it comes from Jirachi
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Alright here I am once again to make another post on the new drops we got. I've played and watched a fair amount of games and I believe my point of view about the current metagame is pretty clean overall. By the way, while I can't deny that there is some broken/unhealthy components in the current metagame I also have to admit that I'm enjoying a lot the tier and the teambuilding. It's a real breath of fresh air for the tier and that's super great to see that much new additions in Underused.

The broken trinity :



I already talked about Aegislash in my previous post and I'm glad to see that my opinion didn't changed at all on this Pokemon. It's both unhealthy and broken in my opinion, it forces way too many 50/50 to the benefit of the player who's playing it and it's so versatile that it's almost impossible to know which Aegislash you're facing before it does something. King Shield is really obnoxious and forces even more 50/50 while offensive sets such as Choice Band, Choice Specs, Mixed LO, Swords Dance and Autotomize can all break an unprepared team or a chipped one in the mid/late-game. Aegislash has a marvelous typing both on the offensive and defensive side and has the tools to break almost anything. I don't see any reason in favor of this Pokémon staying in UU. On the other hand, Gengar is almost as dumb as Aegislash and not gonna lie it's not really a surprised to me (and that's why I voted to not unban it a few days ago). Nasty Plot Gengar is nearly impossible to deal with and has a lot of opportunities to setup in front of Pokemon such as Blissey, Body Press Skarmory or upon a switch of the opponent. Since Pursuit isn't a thing anymore, Gengar doesn't fear a lot of Pokemon and it's blessed by an almost perfect base speed of 110 which allows it to revenge kill a lot of Pokemon with ease. While Incineroar and Tyranitar looks solid to check it, it's not the case at all since they always have to scout Focus Blast which obliterates them. Much like Aegislash I don't see how this Pokemon brings something good and well enough to the tier to stay. While Conkeldurr isn't in my opinion as nasty as the two others Ghost-types, the fact that it has nearly 0 counter makes me think that it's too much for the tier. Even Pokemon such as Skarmory has to run some speed but also Brave Bird or Iron Defense + Body Press in order to check that beast. I've seen people running Close Combat and the damage output is just insane (easy 2HKO on max/max Skarmory). I think Conkeldurr puts way too much pressure on the teambuilding and forces people to run some shenanigans in order to beat it and that's why, like the two Ghost-types, I think it should go as soon as possible.

The borderlines ones :



This three may become our new broken trinity if the others were banned. Let's talk about Terrakion first. In my opinion it's the most dangerous of the three and I hesitate to add it in our top priority alongisde Aegislash, Gengar and Terrakion. However, I believe it's a bit hard to tell if this Pokemon is too much for the tier because while it has some great checks such as Palossand, Runerigus or Slowking and Doublade to a lesser extent, it's really hard to run those checks in the current metagame because of our 2 broken Ghost-types which pressure a lot those Pokemon. On the other hand, I have to admit that Terrakion is fantastic at the moment and can pressure a lot of defensive builds/cores thanks to its typing + Swords Dance. But I think it could be nice to give it a shot in a metagame without Aegislash, Gengar and Conkeldurr. On its side, Crawdaunt does Crawdaunt things and with the brand new Teleport users such as Blissey, Slowking or Porygon2, it gets way more oppornuity ot come freely on the field to break some jaws thanks to Crabhammer + Knock Off. However, its low speed is still an issue and the rise of Keldeo doesn't help it so.. let's wait and see ? Last but not least, let's talk about Scolipede. This one is an iffy one in my opinion because I feel like it's insanely broken on paper but it does struggle in the current metagame where Skarmory is everywhere. I really don't know how to feel about this one but I know some council members express their concerns about this threat and that's why I highlighted it.

The great additions :



I'm not gonna talk about all of them but I'm really glad that we got so much new stuff to play with, both on the offensive and defensive side. Krookodile is a really cool offensive Stealth Rock setter and a nice Choice Band users while Jirachi is a nice option which can support its teammates thanks to Stealth Rock and/or Wish but also thanks to Trick + Healing Wish on its Choice Scarf set. I don't saw a lot of Kyurem on the ladder but I believe this one is an underrated threat and may become too much once the broken stuff will be out of the tier. Lycanroc-Dusk is really fun to use thanks to its great speed and brand new Close Combat. I'm also super glad to see that Obstagoon is finally playable in the tier while not being too overwhelming so I'm glad this one came back from UUBL. Tyranitar is also great as a Choice Band users and I don't see it become too good. On the defensive side Blissey is probably our best glue-mon at the moment thanks to the support its brings to a team and its new tool Teleport which makes it really nice alongside powerful breakers. Palossand is not used a lot but that's because we have the broken trinity in the tier and I firmly believe it can get better once they're gone. Skarmory is insane and probably the best mate to Blissey, BlissSkarm is just a fantastic defensive core which can handle most threats. Slowking is another great staple which also benefits from Teleport (much like its bro' Slowbro in OU). Last but not least, my fav mon aka Tentacruel is back in UU and I'm so glad to finally being able to run a viable a great Rapid Spinner, can't wait to see how good this one gonna be once the two broken Ghost-typew will be gone..!

Last word

Like I said many times, I'm really enjoying the evolution of the tier and I can't wait to see how it will be once we removed all the broken and unhealthy shits. I also liked the fact that some Pokemon/set which were kinda meh before are becoming much better such as SubCM Keldeo which is insanely great in my opinion and benefits the fact that most Slowking atm runs Future Sigh and not Psyshock/Psychic and it's able to pressure BlissSkarm. I'm so glad and happy to see that people are innovating a lot and I can't wait to see some new heat sets on this thread !
 

Estarossa

between heaven and earth
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Making another post again to share a couple of teams I've been using that people have been interested in that i've been using in stuff like Loop Laguun, and talk about some more cool sets I've used on them, especially CM Rachi and Smack Down Krook.

CM Jirachi + LycanSight

:ss/jirachi: :ss/weezing-galar: :ss/lycanroc-dusk: :ss/krookodile: :ss/skarmory: :ss/slowking:

https://pokepast.es/c26dbe7408254b1d

Something I haven't seen much discussion about is Calm Mind Jirachi, which I decided to build with on this team. I personally prefer 3 attacks as without it you are left either walled by Slowking/WW Skarm or Incineroar. This is a really cool option that can punish traditional counterplay to expected Scarf Jirachi, with people making switches into stuff like Slowking/Skarmory that you set up on, and easily chip down Incineroar switch-ins with Aura Sphere to put it into range of +1 Aura Sphere later. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1144395866 Replay is a nice example of its ability to steamroll once Incineroar is weakened.

Future Sight + Teleport Slowking + Lycanroc is another cool combo, but options like Heracross/Conk/Mienshao/Terrak have been more common in this slot. Lycanroc is another fantastic abuser of Future Sight though, and generally a fantastic wallbreaker right now, with the speed, power and strong tough claws boosted coverage, and loves the free entries Slowking constantly gives it. Its also useful on this team for the ability to revenge fast stuff like Terrakion/Gengar that you lose out on by not running Scarf Jirachi, and great at punching holes in teams for CM Rachi to clean up after.

Smack Down is a more unique option on Rocks Krook compared to what i've been seeing, but allows it to deal with stuff like Skarmory and Levitate Weezing that it otherwise greatly struggles with and doesn't really want to Taunt against either. Chople Krook in general is a great check to stuff Gengar/Aegislash and super valuable on a team like this.

Whirlwind Skarmory is another great partner to Future Sight, and with Body Press + Iron Defense it can really pressure any Psychic resists. It also provides a valuable ground immunity for stuff like Krook that the team would hate otherwise thanks to using a fast offensive Gas weezing for a reliable Conk check, which allows Slowking to more freely run boots to make up for the lack of hazard removal.


Para Spam + Scarf Rachi & Hex Gengar

:ss/jirachi: :ss/roserade: :ss/tyranitar: :ss/gengar: :ss/rotom-wash: :ss/conkeldurr:

https://pokepast.es/687e6f6542670bf8

This team was primarily made around the concept of Twave spam to support Scarf Jirachi and really enable and bring out Gengar's maximal potential, and demonstrate just how difficult it can really be to deal with when supported properly. Stun Spore Roserade is a nice support for this, being able to neatly catch opposing Scarf Jirachi, while providing Spikes to help them break even better. SpDef Chople TTar offers a nice check to Aegi/Gengar for the team, and can catch plenty of stuff with Twave too, while Twave Washtom provides a valuable ground immunity to help check Krook. Conkelldurr provides another fantastic abuser of Paralysis spam, greatly limiting its offeensive counterplay, and serving as a fantastic breaker for Scarf Rachi to clean.
 
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Twilight

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This is just a follow-up post about potential bans, mainly as a response regarding Moute's post. I've played a good amount of games now (I'd say +50 is a good enough sample size) and I've pretty much solidified my opinion on what is the main stuff that I would prefer we looked at now rather than later. I'm sure everyone has deemed Aegislash, Conkeldurr, and Gengar as the big three issues already. Moute also outlined that Scolipede, Crawdaunt, and Terrakion are likely to become the top three threats if the other three got banned but I personally think these Pokemon are just as broken or unhealthy in the metagame as is. Regarding the first three, I am all pro-ban with Aegi and Gengar, Conk idm but I do think it has too few switchins. My viewpoint on Terrak is kind of the same with how few pivots there are, it kind of picks up a kill almost every time it comes in but I could potentially see the tier adapting to it better with its switchins being actually viable. Regarding the other two:


Scolipede is a huge threat to any team that doesn't have Skarmory on it and most people have pointed out Skarm walls it but the reality is not every team can slap the bird on it. Unless you have Lycanroc-Dusk with Accelrock, Encore Whimsicott, Gale Wings intact on Talonflame, other multiple priority moves it doesn't resist, it probably sweeps the rest of your team or claims half of them, which I experienced when using/playing against it. STABs + Earthquake basically hits the whole tier and drops the Pokemon that resist its STAB combination like Cobalion, Aegislash, Terrakion, Gengar etc. You can also use Aqua Tail which also allows it to break Pallossand easier but I have personally preferred EQ given it hits more. It snowballs out of control way too quickly and invalidates all of our scarfers other than mediocre ones like Scarf Inteleon and Salazzle, which will only revenge kill if they hard switch in or the Pokemon in front of Scolipede dies on the initial turn so it isn't at +2 Speed already. With this being the case the best means of revenge killing it with a scarfer is actually running Ditto because it can revenge a +2 Scolipede with EQ. While it is rather frail it isn't hard to put it in a position to set up a SD safely or just simply support it with dual screens giving it an easier time to set up and make it harder to revenge.


After playing against this thing more I have come to the conclusion that it is still too much for this tier. This gen patents to bringing in strong breakers way too easily with us now having more pivoting moves than previous generations (Volt Switch / U-turn / Flip Turn / Teleport / Parting Shot). It's so easy to give this Pokemon a free turn against offense and bulkier teams alike. While other strong wallbreakers can likewise abuse this, Crawdaunt has little to no switchins that aren't 2HKO'd or take a shit load from its STAB combo. Shiinotic, Poliwrath, Phys Def Whimsicott, and Phys Def Keldeo are the best pivots you will get into this Pokemon and it is clear a lot of these are either unviable, beyond niche, or are a burden to run over alternative Pokemon or better sets in the current state of UU. I think LO sets are the best even if you run 4 Attack sets because it still picks up the same 2HKOs or OHKOs but makes it even harder for offensive threats to reliably revenge kill it, Terrak and Lycanroc come to mind for example. I disagree with the sentiment that Keldeo usage going up makes this Pokemon anymore balanced when it 2HKOs every standard Keldeo set, which means after one hit you are forced into a scenario where it is no longer a pivot into it but a Pokemon that comes in from a free switch (Usually a Pokemon dying) to force it out.

I'm not sure whether all of the council has the same sentiment as Moute when it comes to potentially seeing how some of these Pokemon do after the top 3 are banned but I would still hope Scolipede, Crawdaunt, and Terrakion be on the first slate of votes regardless. I see no harm on voting on them now and if you prefer to keep it in the tier for longer/deem them not broken then you obviously have the ability/right to vote no ban. Even if these Pokemon were voted on and were kept in the tier then they can be simply voted on again next slate. PU has done a similar thing where they just vote on the same threat if it was deemed potentially fine in the previous week then shown to actually be too much or still be sus in the metagame. I assume you plan to vote on something before the next round of UU open which would mean this weekend, which is why I'm posting this, so I hope that all 6 of them are voted on personally. I wouldn't mind more controversial mons being voted on too like Kyurem, because I have seen a good amount of different views about it despite my belief that it seems manageable rn.

So TLDR I hope more than the obvious three (Aegi, Conk, Gengar) are voted on. I don't see the harm on voting on multiple potentially problematic aspects now, especially with us being back in beta. If those problematic Pokemon aren't banned (Scolipede, Terrakion, etc.) and prove to be an issue over the next week then simply vote on them again imo.
 
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Gross Sweep

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DLC drops have finally hit UU, which has basically transformed SS UU into a completely new tier than the one we all knew and loved just a few short days ago. UU has seen an influx of long time UU mons like Blissey and Krookodile, while also welcoming first time entries such as Tyranitar and Aegislash after the first DLC. That said, these new entries have not come without issue. The power level of UU has greatly shifted with Pokemon like Aegislash, Conkeldurr, and Gengar entering the arena. While a rise in the power level of UU was expected given the presence of more mons in general, there is definitely a question of said rise being a bit to much for the tier. With this in mind I'd like to share my thoughts on some of the initial drops; from the potentially broken to some cool new threats that have a healthy presence in the tier.

Busted Ghosts

Aegislash is making its first appearance in UU, and I fear it will be a short one. Aegislash has shown to be an incredible threat, with a variety of sets from Specs to SubToxic dominating the UU metagame. The bulk and power provided by Aegislash is unmatched in the tier, and I really don't see it being healthy for the tier moving forward. Even with several new strong Dark-types entering the tier Aegislash has proved too much as nothing in the tier really deals with it consistently. If it were up to me I'd ban this thing as soon as possible, but I'm interested in what the UU council will do in this situation. Next we move on to Gengar. As much as I love Gengar, and was happy to see it get another chance being unbanned along with the DLC drops it just seems to be just over the edge of too fast too strong. Between Nasty Plot, Scarf, Specs, WispHex, and Sub the options for Gengar vary enough that it's just to much to deal with. Even with an array of strong dark types like Tyranitar, Krookodile, and Incineroar along with the great wall of UU in Blissey, Gengar continues to rip through teams at an unhealthy rate. 110 is also still a very elite speed tier for the current UU metagame, and a mon as strong offensively as Gengar with that speed is just to much as it becomes a pain to deal with offensively on top of having limited defensive answers.

Dark Types Take Center Stage

Leading up to the release of DLC1 UU only had a couple notable Dark-types in Incineraor and Umbreon. Fast forward to now and 5 new viable Dark-types have entered the fold. Grimmsnarl enters as a strong screen setter, who has the potential to end the Xatu vs Espeon debate on screen teams by taking the top spot for itself. Next we have Krookodile who is currently fighting Incineroar for the ultimate glue role. Krookodile is strong mon with plenty of utility in Rocks, Taunt, and Knock Off. Krookodile is a very welcome addition to the tier, and something I'm sure will be fairly meta defying going forward, especailly as it's one of the few strong Ground-types in a tier short of ground resists. Our third addition is the highly vaunted Tyranitar. Gracing UU with its presence after a historical record of dominance in OU. I think most people thought Tyranitar would be a broken presence in the tier, but for the most part it has been a healthy addition to the tier. Even with great bulk and tremendous power Tyranitar has been kept in check by competing Dark-types, along with all the new Fighting-types currently running wild in UU. Finally we have the two other unbans in Obstagoon and Crawdaunt. Honestly these mons seem like they're a bit to much, but I'm not completely sold. Crawdaunt is an absolute nuke with strong Stabs backed by Adaptability, and Obstagoon still rips through balance teams with a respectable 95 speed tier. The increase in strong fighters like Terrakion and Conkeldurr have helped keep these two in check thus far. However, if those two go, or even one of them, I could see these two spiraling completely out of control rather fast. I wouldn't be opposed to sending these two back to the wasteland that is UUBL, but I can certainly respect a potential wait and see approach by the council given these two don't feel as absolutely ridiculous as something like Aegislash.

New Fighters Emerge

Before the DLC UU was rich with fighting types between Keldeo, Cobalion, Pangoro, and Machamp. And let's just say the rich got richer. Conkeldurr is an incredibly strong breaker that just guts teams. The only thing really holding Conkeldurr back is its lackluster speed tier, and it makes up for that to a certain degree by way of Mach Punch. Honestly I think Conk is a little to strong for UU as things currently stand and wouldn't oppose a quickban. That said UU has some tools to help deal with Conkeldurr, like G-Weezing being the closest thing to a Conk counter that has ever existed, along with plenty of strong Pokemon that outpace Conk. I guess time will tell on how the council handles this behemoth, since even though I would probably vote Ban I understand those who might have a differing point of view. Next we have Terrakion, who has proved to be solid over the first days it has been available. I would probably also want to ban Terrakion along with some other bans, but it is currently kept in check by some common priority like Conk's Mach Punch, and Daunt's Aqua Jet. Now those are obviously forms of priority that would disappear with some of the bans I've proposed, but for the time being they're around. Terrakion has also struggled a bit with the presence of Lycanroc, who fulfills a similar role but has a higher speed and priority while giving up some bulk. Overall Terrakion is a great mon that becomes practically unwallable after an SD, but given other more pressing threats I would probably hold off on quickbanning it. Finally we have Heracross who is a pretty cool pick, and by far the least broken among the three new fighters. Heracross can break with a Guts SD set, and act as a cleaner with Scarf Moxie. Another fun option for Heracross this generation is Spikes, which allows Heracross to helps its teammates out by providing some consistent chip. I honestly don't have much to say on Heracross right now as I feel it has been overshadowed by Conk and Terrak a bit, but as the meta progresses I expect we'll be seeing a lot more of this bug.

SkarmBliss

The time has finally arrived for one of the greatest cores in competitive Pokemon history to debut in UU. I have high expectations for this core, and hopefully they'll lead the way to Stall finding some success in the tier. Blissey provides a catch all to most special attackers, and Skarmory is pretty much impossible for a physical attacker that can't hit it for SE to break through. There really isn't anything else to say about this core that hasn't already been said, I just felt a post talking about new additions to the tier would be incomplete without bringing up these two.

Get Your Rock Resists Ready

Good Rock resists are something that haven't been necessarily mandatory over the course of the generation for SS UU as Rhyperior was the only thing clicking Stone Edge on a consistent basis leading up to this point (Edge Coba was a thing, but it wasn't super common). With these new additions that has immediately changed with these three. With this in mind defensive cores of old all need to be reworked. with a new type strongly entering the fold the entire tier gets flipped on its head, and these three I give credit to particularly. This is part of the reason I am a little hesitant to pull the finger on a Terrakion quick ban as I feel people need time to adjust and explore how to handle strong Rock-types with the resources we have. That said at the end of the day I still see Terrakion and Lycanroc as potentially problematic, but I like the idea of giving them a chance.

Spikes / Tspikes

This generation UU has enjoyed having a decent variety of viable hazard setters, and that variety has only increased with the DLC. That said we lived in a boots heavy meta that made Hazards less than amazing, however, with Noivern and Incineroar fighting for slots more and more with the new additions coupled with all the new (and old) Spikes and Toxic Spikes users hazards feel like they've never been better. Fat teams can Spike stack with ease thanks to Skarmory, and it's pretty easy for balance/bulky offense teams to fit Tspikes. With this in mind removal is becoming more and more important in the building process, since getting overwhelmed by Hazards feels like an issue that could become commonplace for teams that don't have strong removal. It also raises the value of grounded Poison-type Pokemon who can absorb Tspikes on the switch.

Spinners

To go along with all the new Spike/Tspike users UU has gained a couple of really cool Rapid Spinners. I have really been enjoying Starmie, as it's incredibly flexible and helpful offensively. Starmie has a great speed tier at 115, great coverage options, reliable recovery, a pair of strong abilities, and options when it comes to being all out offensive or a bit more bulky. I have been testing out Heavy Duty Boots Starmie as it allows Starmie to come in on Spikes cleanly and spin, and I've been loving it as it gets the job done well. Tentacruel is another cool spinner that can also set its own hazards with Tspikes. I think an interesting set idea is SD Tentacruel with dual Stab and Spin on something like Screens. It seems a little silly at first, but I suggest you give it a try as nothing really resists both of Tentacruel's Stabs. That said I expect to see these two do well as Spikes/Tspikes continue to see usage as it's a pain to keep defogging away your own hazards. Also I expect it will get easier to spin in the coming days as Aegislash and hopefully Gengar are dealt with.

Lean Into the Hax

Jirachi is an interesting addition to the tier. With all the new Dark and Ghost-types in the tier it hardly qualifies as broken at the moment, but I firmly believe it is something to watch moving forward. The longer this thing is in the tier, the more versatile it will become and the more it will flinch someone out in important games. Personally I think Jirachi is a good addition to the tier, but I expect posts criticizing its place in the tier to be fairly common as UU progresses. That being said Jirachi provides the UU tier with a strong scarfer, an interesting breaker with CM sets, and a good pivot with bulky Wish sets. Jirachi also helps support more offensive teams rather well by way of Healing Wish, which always has the potential to be extremely helpful. Overall I believe Jirachi was a good drop, but I can definitely see a future where Jirachi is looked at for a suspect down the line.

The King

Slowking is one of my all-time favorite Pokemon, and I am excited to see it find a home in SS UU. Slowking is a great bulky water that serves as an excellent pivot thanks to Teleport + Regenerator. Even with Dark and Ghost-types running ramapant slowking has found a way to thrive which is really exciting. If you haven't tried Future Sight + Teleport Slowking along with a strong Fighting-type yet I would highly recommend it. The combo facilitates breaking as it sets up situations were your opponent has to choose between sending out something to take on the fighter in front of them, or something that can stomach the incoming Future Sight, it's basically a lose lose for the opponent.

That's all I've got the mental fortitude to write about for the time being. Overall the tier is in a very cool place where you can experience some new and creative strategy every time you load up a game, which is incredible to experience. I'm looking forward to continuing to play UU in the future, and seeing how the meta develops, especially after some of the obviously broken Pokemon are taken care of.
 
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In my opinion Aegislash, Gengar and Grimmsnarl need quick banning.

No one if Aegislash's sets are too individually bad, but it has so much versatility and each set has different counters. Swap in your Skarmory to deal with the SD set, he gets OHKO by a Specs Shadow Ball. He has too much going on.

Grimmsnarl isn't a massively powerful pokemon on it's own, but it sets up screens far too efficiently, probably more than once. I don't see how the council can leave ANinetales banned and leave Grimmsnarl.

Gengar has basically no defensive counter play, and is so fast that offensive counter play is limited to Scarfers and priority. Nasty Plot and Substitute enable this mon to overpower the whole tier and it gets so lany opportunities to set up. If it gets a kill behind a Sub it will probably get a second one.

Everything else keeps each other wierdly in check. The other maybes for me are Conkeldurr, Crawdaunt, Kyurem, Scolipede and Terakion, but I'm in now rush to see them gone.
 

Ausma

pick a sack.
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Alright! I've been playing over the past couple days, and I have more updated thoughts regarding some of the drops in the tier.

--

Let's talk about the obvious ones, first.

:ss/aegislash::ss/gengar:

Yeah, these two are a giant yikes.

- I've addressed Aegislash and its frightening status against the tier already, however, a more seasoned experience versus it has led me to the conclusion that this thing absolutely needs to go. While its SD set is pretty ok, I've had the most trouble against its Choice sets and Sub Toxic. Choice Specs is utterly absurd, and severely dents (if not outright knocks out) literally the entirety of the tier barring Blissey, and SubToxic subverts its normally offensive roots with an extremely egregious set that is able to safely plant a crippling Toxic against the entirety of the tier, as well as threaten you with a respectably strong Shadow Ball regardless. Its SD set, while I would argue isn't as good, has completely different matchups that ultimately put emphasis on the idea that Aegislash is incredibly unhealthy to play against. On top of all of this, it is resistant to Stealth Rock and poison, which makes it really hard to chip down. The biggest issue, though, is that it is extremely hard to scout for Aegislash without getting punished in some way due to how radically different its checks are for each of its sets (all of which are extremely potent), and this thing absolutely deserves a quickban as a result.

- Gengar is mostly run with Nasty Plot, but this one move is beyond enough to get it sent back into the BL shadow realm. Not only is it able to set up on most of the tier, but the 50/50s it forces are extremely risky and can result in way too great of a consequence to be healthy in battle. When it sets up, it gains a mind boggling strength with dual STABs that completely eradicate the tier, with a very good speed tier that necessitates a revenge killer to combat. Though, a detail that hasn't been mentioned much with it is its typing in particular. Offensively, we know it is amazing, however, its its defensive attributes include an immunity to Quick Attack/Mach Punch/Seismic Toss, as well as a Toxic immunity, meaning that you will need to rely on Accelerock, a Scarfer, or a faster Thunder Wave user to handle it. Substitute sets, while relatively uncommon, are some I've seen to combat the latter, and it turns Thunder Wave Blissey (which already can't do shit to it as is unless it wants to forego Seismic Toss's consistent damage for a coverage option solely for Gengar) into complete set-up fodder. I won't parrot how strong it is, how fast it is, and how easy it can mow over teams more than I have, but this thing definitely should leave the tier again.

--

Here I'll talk about some Pokemon I think could be on the chopping block, but I'm not 100% on.

:ss/grimmsnarl:

- Grimmsnarl is a really weird case. On paper, its attributes look perfect for the climate, but then you look at the fact that it is arguably one of the best Screen setters in the entirety of Pokemon due to its access to great utility like Taunt/Thunder Wave, Prankster, a solid defensive typing, and the ability to actually attack. It's been talked about in great detail as to why Screens in the tier are kind of a finicky subject, but we banned Alolatales for the very reason that it was a premier Screen setter, and I'd even argue to say Grimmsnarl is better. With all of the new shit in the tier, it's hard to say, but I can definitely see this thing spearheading another era of Screens offense, especially with the incredible breakers we now got in the tier.

:ss/terrakion:

- Speaking of breakers, here we have Terrakion. Terrakion is, needless to say, strong. It has incredible dual STABs, an amazing speed tier, a breathtaking Attack stat, and hugely viable Choice/SD sets. While I do personally value Lycanroc-Dusk's explosiveness and generous coverage more, Terrakion is definitely much more consistent as a breaker. It is arguably one of the best Screens abusers that can completely mow over teams with its SD Variant, and even without Screens, it has respectable bulk that is augmented by Sandstorm. Without SD and armed with a Choice item, it is a great cleaner with Scarf and a great immediate wallbreaker with its Band variant. Though, a huge point against it is its lack of good coverage outside of Earthquake and Megahorn, which are certainly good, but easy to scout. It is fairly weak to priority and revenge killers, and is checked really well by Skarmory and Weezing-Galar, but I do think it is on a similar par to Gengar, despite being not as wholly pressing due to more immediate checks being present in the tier.

:ss/conkeldurr:

- Conkeldurr is a weird Pokemon to evaluate. On one hand, it is absolutely absurd as a breaker. Some big edges it has over Terrakion are access to an incredibly powerful Facade/Mach Punch/Knock Off and Guts, both of which give it a pretty effective, immediate presence as a breaker. And, if you fancy it, it gets Bulk Up, too. On one hand, it can be walled to a better effectiveness since it lacks SD (and is much more vulnerable to Neutralizing Gas), but it having such amazing immediate power and being such an incredible revenge killer can be worrisome traits on the other. Conkeldurr I say would be something worth waiting on, but it has shown to be a pretty frightening presence in the tier no matter how you slice it, and I could certainly see a slate for it.

--

Now
, let's talk about some of the mons that are very dependent on what happens with the more... powerful additions to the tier.

:ss/obstagoon::ss/crawdaunt:

- These two are hugely balanced by the influx of Fighting-types in the tier, and in the former's case, the greater Speed level of the tier. I haven't particularly had many issues with them, but after using them some, I have found myself having a bit of a hard time getting them in, and when they get in, they're really prone to punishment. A lot of people are currently running priority to revenge the faster set-up breakers that have entered the tier as well as Conkeldurr being a thing that exists, which has consequentially led to Obstagoon and Crawdaunt being less terrifying as Dark breakers in a vacuum. Obstagoon in particular is also balanced by the influx of Neutralizing Gas Weezing, which completely throttles its breaking power, and in my opinion, has made it more manageable. Crawdaunt, though, is definitely the more concerning of the two. Access to SD, Aqua Jet, and Adaptability makes it a premier wallbreaker and Stallbuster, as well as an extremely potent revenger in its own right. Unlike Conk, though, it lacks bulk, is riskier to use due to its low Speed, and lacks the ability to heal chip with Drain Punch. I think, though, if Conk/Gengar/Terrakion get banished, that these two may definitely be of more concern. Although I think they're fine right now, they could be broken depending on what gets banned.

:ss/kyurem:

- Kyurem is somewhat of a similar case. Although it's definitely not broken at the moment, it is hugely checked by how widespread revenge killing and speed control is in the tier right now. I reckon its breaking power will become much more of a concern especially once it gets more of an opportunity to exemplify said breaking power, and arguably could be worse than Obstagoon/Crawdaunt since it has much less overall counterplay.

:ss/scolipede:

- Admittedly, I haven't really seen much of Scolipede, so I'll avoid talking too much about it. It's got hazards, is a great suicide lead, but more prominently, it can snowball really easily with SD and Speed Boost. I don't really know how to feel about it yet, but it is worth keeping an eye on due to its past BL reputation anyway. I haven't really had an issue with it, personally, though I think that's hugely because of things like Skarmory and Weezing-Galar being such great, commonplace walls in the tier, which could fall out in use depending on what gets nuked to UUBL.

--

Though, with all of this banning stuff out of the way, let's talk about the more welcome additions to the tier that I've had some experience with.

:ss/tyranitar:

- Despite the prior hype indicating that it'd be really unhealthy in the tier, in my experience, Tyranitar has been a fantastic addition to UU. While it does encourage some Sand archetypes, we have no Excadrill, and with some pretty solid walls like Skarmory as the icing on the cake, it has shown to be fairly niche anyway. It's been a super welcome Rocker, breaker, and overall nice glue mon that feels manageable with how vulnerable it is to a plethora of the tier's offenses, even without the mons I mentioned above, and how it's very prone to being chipped down. I've seen people compare it to Gigalith, but Tyranitar is literally better in every way aside from a couple of little things in the weakness department. It has more set options, more bulk, and more ways to support its team. I, for one, welcome our new Kaiju lord.

:ss/palossand:

- I feel Palossand is somewhat in the shadows with all of the hype going around with the arguably banworthy mons, and haven't seen too much of it. But, it is an amazing check to Fighting spam cores, and has great utility that is super good for Stall, Semi-Stall, and Balance. It's not really too amazing right now since it is kind of overwhelmed by all of the toys we weren't expecting, but I know for sure it'll get better as the tier stabilizes itself.

:ss/slowking:

- Slowking is legitimately so cool, and I'm so happy we have it here. Regenerator + Teleport is a super cool tech and it has made it arguably one of the best pivots in the tier, as well as a good Fighting check. This thing is for sure going to be a top mon once the dust settles with how amazing it is as a pivot and glue to pretty much every archetype.

:ss/heracross:

- Heracross is sick, and I absolutely love having it here. It's a super strong breaker that is balanced by its lack of priority, its middling speed tier, and underwhelming STABs. Plus, I've seen Scarf + Moxie some, and while not as good as its Guts set, it's a pretty cool cleaner. Despite its shortcomings, I think it's a really cool Pokemon and I imagine it'll be a premier breaker over Sirfetch'd/Machamp.

:ss/jirachi:

- I actually quite like Jirachi here. While its set options are all over the place, it is beaten down by a lot of offense, and isn't really that awful to scout for since its immediate options aren't really strong or that punishing. I could see its set variety potentially being problematic, but I imagine if it doesn't rise to OU again that it'll be top tier since it's so damn versatile and is such a great revenger, Rocker, and cleaner.

:ss/skarmory:

- Skarmory is another mon I wasn't expecting to like in UU, but I'm really happy to say that it is super cool as a wall and as a hazard stacker in the tier. Access to Body Press has given it a way to combat the tier more directly, and it is surprisingly not that hard to wear down, either. I'm a fan of it!

:ss/lycanroc-dusk:

- MURDER DOG IS FUN MURDER DOG IS FUN. It's balanced by its blatant frailty and proneness to getting chipped down with LO, but fuck me is this thing super fun. I love murder dog.

--

Overall, the tier is undoubtedly in probably the most chaos it's been in ever, but despite how it can be somewhat overwhelming, I am enamored with how much the tier has transformed, and I can't wait to see how everything settles. So far, I've had an absolute blast seeing so many different teams on the ladder, and this is probably the most diverse the tier's been. If we get rid of the more problematic, loose ends, I imagine this tier will be the most prosperous and creativity encouraging it's been in years.
 
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Hogg

grubbing in the ashes
is a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris an Administratoris a Tournament Director Alumnus
UU Leader
Hey, y'all, just a quick update. The council is holding its first round of votes on the following: Aegislash, Conkeldurr, Crawdaunt, Gengar and Obstagoon.

I think the thread has properly addressed just why Aegislash, Conkeldurr and Gengar are all so problematic currently. Aegislash in particular has proven nearly uncounterable with its wide variety of sets, all of which are not just viable but extremely effective. Gengar is another 'mon whose primary method of countering is often "cross your fingers and hope to dodge a Focus Blast," with the tools to break past every one of its counters and two incredibly effective sets in Choice Specs and Nasty Plot. Conkeldurr may not seem as immediately oppressive on preview as the first two, but that combination of bulk, power and strong priority makes it a nightmare for most teams to face.

As for things to look at in the near future, the council believes that Scolipede is a potential problem, with SD sets proving very difficult for offensive and balanced teams lacking Skarmory or Quagsire to deal with. We are also keeping an eye on Terrakion. Meanwhile, we are similarly looking at other UUBL Pokemon to test, including Primarina and Durant. So stay tuned!

:aegislash: :conkeldurr: :crawdaunt: :gengar: :obstagoon:
 

wuhoodude

Gen 7 Bewearmaniac
is a Tiering Contributor
I'm gonna drop this team here since aegislash is definitely getting the boot.
:ss/bewear::ss/Grimmsnarl::ss/krookodile::ss/scolipede::ss/aegislash::ss/necrozma:
https://pokepast.es/189a3b579f5bbfce

This is a busted team that takes advantage of dual screens from Grimmsnarl. While Grimmsnarl itself isn't broken, the support it provides for its teammates is really good. It makes already busted mons unstoppable behind screens. Once we get the first wave of bans, I think Scolipede for sure will be next on the chopping block. The only reliable answers to it are skarm and levitate galarian weezing.

Here are some stupid replays
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1144797770
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1144572556
 
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Lilburr

sunshine coastline
is a Tiering Contributor
Haven't really been home at all since we got our new drops, but I've played a decent amount of games and observed some meta developments. Before anything else I'd like to talk about the mons we'll be voting on soon.

Ludicrously broken
:ss/aegislash: :ss/gengar:

I don't think I need to say much about these two; our resident spooky duo is completely bonkers. Aegislash doesn't have any form of reliable counterplay; Gengar's got like, Drapion??? So yea not great. SubNP Gengar has proven itself to be hilariously over-the-top, and Specs / Scarf sets aren't half bad either. Meanwhile, Aegislash is pulling off any kind of set it wants; Band, Specs, Balloon SD, Colbur SD, SubTox, Sub3atks, they're all silly and shred the entire tier. I'm firmly of the opinion that these two are super broken and have to go.

Broken, but less broken
:ss/conkeldurr:

Pre-workout memes aside, I don't think Conk is healthy for the tier at all, even if it's not as egregiously powerful as its ghostly brethren. Conk's got a lot of good sets. CB and Flame Orb sets are as insane as ever, SpDef Bulk Up is great, even Defog is making some appearances and they're all really solid. While it does have some pretty reliable counterplay (Neutralising Gas Galarian Weezing, Colbur Slowking, Colbur Palossand among others) they're all prone to being worn down and outside of Weezing, they can't handle every set. I'm not sold on the idea that Conk is the #1 threat in the tier but I definitely think we'd be better off without it.

Good, but manageable
:ss/crawdaunt: :ss/obstagoon:

I think these two are just fine. Crawdaunt does what it's always done; against offense it gets like 80% off on a mon and dies, and if you're using fat and you see it it makes you click X at preview. Goon does largely the same thing but trades the insane fat MU for a decent enough offense MU. Personally I think these two have massively crippling flaws that hold them back; in Crawdaunt's case it's the terrible speed and bulk which limits how often you can actually get it in, while Obstagoon's great bulk is difficult to make use of bc of its pretty poor defensive typing and terrible longevity as a result of hazard + burn damage. I think we should keep an eye on these two for the time being but I don't see them getting out of hand yet.

Potentially worrisome
:ss/kyurem: :ss/scolipede:


Kyurem and Scolipede are pretty broken in my opinion. Both of them lack sufficient counterplay altogether; Kyurem is limited to Jirachi, Escavalier, Bronzong, and Blissey (all set dependent) while Scolipede is limited to Levitate Galarian Weezing, Skarmory, and Palossand. This wouldn't be an issue if not for their other excellent traits - in Kyurem's case it's the decent speed tier + stupid bulk, while in Scolipede's case it's access to a potent boosting move and Speed Boost on top of its naturally amazing Speed tier and solid bulk/offenses/coverage. Once we deal with "The Big Three", I think these are next on the chopping block.

The Bird & The Blob
:ss/skarmory: :ss/blissey:


I don't like this duo at all. The two of them together create an insanely overwhelming combination that can really only be broken by Taunt users and the strongest Fighting-types in the tier, as well as some niche things like Darmanitan and SD Incineroar. They're often paired with other similarly fat Pokemon that can take on the issues they face, like Palossand or Milotic, creating a nigh impenetrable core that just isn't fun and, in my opinion, isn't healthy either. I don't know what the best way to tackle this issue is, though, because I'm not convinced either of these Pokemon are broken on their own merits. The best way is probably to test the tier without one of these Pokemon and see how we fare, but it's a little sloppy. We'll need to be watchful of these two.

FREE THEM ALL
:ss/durant: :ss/primarina: :ss/dracozolt:


We're talking about potentially freeing some more UUBL Pokemon right now. Durant and Primarina are Pokemon we certainly want to retest in the tier, but there are other options too - Dracozolt looks far more manageable now that we have great Ground-types like Krookodile, Palossand, and Seismitoad, as well as an influx of faster threats like Lycanroc-Dusk and Mimikyu that threaten it a bunch. Mamoswine also seems workable - it still lacks much defensive counterplay outside of Skarmory and Rotom-W, but its Speed tier is no longer as silly as it once was, and we have actual revenge killers that can take an Ice Shard now (Mienshao, Heracross, Obstagoon to name a few), so it's not as overbearing against all styles as it may have been in the past. What do you guys think? Are there any other UUBL Pokemon that you think would be worth testing?

I'm having a ton of fun with this meta, as chaotic as it is. The tier is shaping up to be a great one that's much more varied and nowhere near as centralised around top Pokemon as it was before. I've been enjoying all the thoughts and posts in this thread too, keep em coming guys C:
 
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Hey, y'all, just a quick update. The council is holding its first round of votes on the following: Aegislash, Conkeldurr, Crawdaunt, Gengar and Obstagoon.

I think the thread has properly addressed just why Aegislash, Conkeldurr and Gengar are all so problematic currently. Aegislash in particular has proven nearly uncounterable with its wide variety of sets, all of which are not just viable but extremely effective. Gengar is another 'mon whose primary method of countering is often "cross your fingers and hope to dodge a Focus Blast," with the tools to break past every one of its counters and two incredibly effective sets in Choice Specs and Nasty Plot. Conkeldurr may not seem as immediately oppressive on preview as the first two, but that combination of bulk, power and strong priority makes it a nightmare for most teams to face.

As for things to look at in the near future, the council believes that Scolipede is a potential problem, with SD sets proving very difficult for offensive and balanced teams lacking Skarmory or Quagsire to deal with. We are also keeping an eye on Terrakion. Meanwhile, we are similarly looking at other UUBL Pokemon to test, including Primarina and Durant. So stay tuned!

:aegislash: :conkeldurr: :crawdaunt: :gengar: :obstagoon:
I know Aegislash is going, jesus christ this thing is broken. Essentially Doublade but with 2x more attack pretty much. I WANT IT GONE.

Obstagoon is not broken. We have a LOT of fighting types in the tier, such as the to be banned conkeldurr.

Crawdaunt i really dont have an opinion on
 
I dont know if posible but let the Goon be free and ban Grimmsnarl pls..
Screens HO is insane rn bc the goblin has no problem setting tranks to Prankster, also being inmune to Prankster inself bc of dark typing..
Ban the rest but let Goon be free!!
 
So Alolan Ninetales is such a good screen setter that it isn't even considered for a drop in 2 votes. But Grimmsnarl, an even better screen setter isn't even on the radar for a ban? Logic!
Honestly that's pretty debatable.
Aurora Veil and Alolan Ninetale's speed tier are pretty great. Not needing to rely in Prankster where Dark Types will just ignore your thunder wave/hypnosis is pretty good.


Speaking about Screens, while playing the Linked ladder, I found that Screens+Pivot moves are actually really good for HO teams.
So in all honesty, you might be able to use a Screens setter like Mienshao, Starmie, Brongzong (Explosion), Blissey, Cobalion, and tons of other Pokemon that have access to Screens and a Pivoting move, with some decent to good results.
 
Like some of the others in this thread, I’ll give my thoughts about the mons that are being voted on.
1593901009348.png
- Conk is unhealthy for the tier at the moment. It's flame orb set smashes through everything in the tier and only has 1 reliable counter, being weezing-galar, which can be worn down quickly. palossand can work, but requires a colbur berry and max defense investment to not be 2HKOd.
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 164+ Def Palossand: 266-314 (71.1 - 83.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Palossand: 248-294 (66.3 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
As you can see palossand cant even switch into a well predicted knock off, making it a very shaky check without a colbur berry, which means you use shore up for recovery. Weezing-galar also lacks recovery, meaning it can be prone to the other members of the team. All in all, ban this thing.
1593901025969.png
- Aegislash is definitely the most broken mon in the tier. It has a multitude of great sets, ranging from specs to band to LO to Sub+Toxic, with more niche sets like Air balloon and metal sound doing in the work. The large amounts of solid sets slash has makes it very hard to predict. Skarm could predict a close combat switch in only to get nailed by Specs Shadow ball, vice-versa applies to Blissey. Nobody expected this to drop in the first place, yet everyone expects it to be banned.
1593901039260.png
- Gengar similarly is too much for the tier, being more broken than conk but less broken than slash. LO Nasty plot absolutely shreds through the tier. gengar's dual stab is fantastic and it's colorful coverage allows it to utilize fairy, fighting, or electric attacks to help round out the team. Specs, scarf, and hex sets are also very good. Bust this ghost and send it back to UUBL.
1593901058577.png
- Lmao goon is totally fine. While it is very good against balance, its average speed tier and poor defensive typing keeps it in check, as the tier is full of many fast fighting types that can kill it with ease. In addition, burn+hazard damage allows it to be worn down quickly. It'll be very good in this tier, but nowhere near broken.
1593901081194.png
- Crawdaunt is the one I'm least sure about. While it's frail defenses and low speed tier hold it back, it absolutely is a nuke of a wallbreaker, shredding fat and bulky offensive teams. my view is that crawdaunt shouldn't be banned and we should wait for the metagame to settle after the big 3 go. It can still be a threat, but i want to wait to see how the meta adjusts.
Now, onto mons that are on my radar for being voted on in the future, while also commenting on mons others may feel are broken but i think are manageable.
1593902189765.png
-
Scolipede is another mon that should be banned in the future. It has the ability to build up crazy stat boosts using a combination of SD and speed boost, allowing it to snowball through the tier. It's only real counter is Skarmory and im surprised this wasn't on the radar considering how it was last gen. It's just as threatening as conk.
1593902135660.png
-
BAN THIS THING. It's way too good as a screens setter, allowing HO to be better than before. It has prankster allowing it to set screens, cripple using thunder wave, and taunt leads while it's own typing allows it to be immune to opposing prankster moves. Like many others have said, this is arguably a better screens setter than Alolan-Ninetails, which has no signs of being retested. Get this goblin outta here.
1593902163865.png
-
This im unsure about. While it has an amazing offensive typing and is a strong physical threat with high speed, it also has many natural checks and counters like palossand, skarm, slowking, and weezing galar. It's very threatening, dont get me wrong, but i dont want this being banned at the same time as stuff like scolipede and grimmsnarl, as the meta will greatly adjust without them. It'll always be on the radar, but it's a lot more manageable than the immediate banworthy stuff.
1593902385367.png
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I also think Kyurem is in a similar place to terrak. It;s amazing offensively being able to pressure bulky waters and is very hard to switch into. However, blissey and the tiers many fast fighting types and steel types are able to keep it in check. Like terrakion, I would wait until the more broken stuff is gone to see how the meta reacts, and then ban this if it's too much for the tier.

That's all ive got to say about the tiers premier threats. UU is really fun now with this shake up, and i hope it'll be more balanced as time goes on. Lastly, ill give my thoguhts on mons that should be retested from UUBL. Durant, primirina, weavile, dracozolt, and diggersby all should be unbanned. They each can work in the tier, as more offesnive and defesnive options have arisen to check them. I know prim, durant, and dracozolt were mentioned, but i also want to see how diggersby will fare in the new UU tier, and hopefully it'll be kept out of the shadow realm known as UUBL. I may post again soon going into more depth about why i support each of these unbans.
 

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Highways

é a união flasco, mano é sem caô
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Since many people already talked about the most popular drops, I will talk about some Pokemon (new toys and old faces) that have gone under the radar for most people.

:mimikyu:
I always saw Christo spamming this in SM even with Scizor around and never understood why, but now I finally understand. Mimikyu is fantastic. It offers so much more than being a relatively weaker Aegislash: it's faster than Krookodile and Obstagoon, it stops or softens sweeps from most of the stupidly strong setup sweepers the tier has right now, and makes scouting choice locked Pokemon less of a pain. Of course, it is walled by the primary physical wall in the tier, Skarmory, but it isn't easy to fit into offense builds and that's the playstyle that suffers the most against Mimikyu. The aggressiveness it brings and its defensive utility (Disguise + immunity to 3 strong and common offensive types is great) makes it a glue that can easily be slapped into most offensive teams.

:seismitoad:
I tried defensive sets and found them underwhelming. We don't have significantly good offensive Water-types or Fire-types that it needs to check, and it can't really check the strong Fighting-types, which are the main physical attackers at the moment. So I asked myself "why not try offensive sets?", and I was honestly surprised by how good it was. I like a special based set better than a physical one because special can actually hurt Skarmory, but physical variants are not bad either. This set allows it to still check physical Jirachi variants with ease, beat defensive Starmie, Tentacruel, and Toxic-less Rotom-W 1v1, outspeed max Speed base 60s, and OHKO Pokemon like Crawdaunt, Aegislash Blade, Terrakion, Krookodile, Cobalion etc. while defensive variants fail to do so. It's also bulky enough to take one hit from most Pokemon and do a lot of damage back. Krookodile might be a superior rocker most of the time but being able to beat most hazard removing options is extremely valuable in my opinion.

:dragalge:
Dragalge is another Pokemon that, despite being walled by Jirachi, Blissey, and Skarmory, will probably get a lot more traction once the metagame settles. Being a Toxic Spikes setter that hits like a truck and that can steal momentum against the few Pokemon that wall it with Flip Turn gives it an insane niche that can be easily abused by the many other breakers the tier has to offer. Its defensive typing also allows it to switch into momentum suckers such as Tentacruel and grab momentum back or click one of its ridiculously strong Adapatability-boosted STABs.

:hatterene:
The hat is obviously not amazing, but it has something very peculiar: it has three different sets, and each one of these work differently to carve a solid niche in the tier. Calm Mind + 3 attacks singlehandedly beats any stall teams that doesn't have Jirachi, and even these suffer if it's chipped. Nuzzle sets are very effective against offense and they offer a lot both offensively and defensively, given Hatterene's bulk and good defensive typing. Trick Room + CM sets, while underwhelming against bulkier builds, are almost unplayable against offense, especially if Jirachi is already KOed or weakened. Overall, I think this Pokemon is, while not exactly strong, a very interesting addition to the tier due to its good bulk, Special Attack and ability (Magic Bounce is great, especially against teams that have passive rockers).

:cobalion:
Cobalion is still really, really good. The fact that people have been spamming Weezing-G (rather desperately, to be honest) as a way to deal with Fightings and Obstagoon says a lot, and with Noivern's usage seeing a huge drop, I think this is the Pokemon that benefitted the most from the shifts. Cobalion now can give up on using Stone Edge, being able to use Volt Switch on Swords Dance sets to avoid Aegislash and Slowking or, a more underrated option, Rock Polish to sweep teams that rely on the likes of Weezing-G and Skarmory to check Fighting-types. It also benefits from the Scarf Jirachi surge, which lets Cobalion set up Swords Dance for free most of the time.

:noivern:
The new toys have overshadowed this Pokemon's relevance, and while it's not as good as it was before, it's still very valuable. Taunt sets singlehandedly stop SkarmBliss from being annoying, while also outspeeding a good chunk of the tier and hitting really hard with Draco Meteor/Hurricane + Flamethrower. All in all, it does what it always did, but now it has more freedom to use Taunt instead of Defog given there are (finally!) better hazard removal options in Tentacruel and Starmie.

:keldeo:
Keldeo is a bit hurt by the Slowking bandwagon, but it's not like it got any worse. Hydro Pump + Secret Sword is a combination that dismantles SkarmBliss, Taunt + Calm Mind sets hurt stall like few Pokemon do, and SubCM sets can abuse Future Sight Slowking (which is very underwhelming imo, as it loses the immediate power Psychic offers to check Fighting-types). Scarf and Specs sets also work wonders because of Flip Turn. It's not broken anymore because now we have the likes of Slowking, Dragalge, Starmie, and Tentacruel, but it's still very splashable and one of the best Pokemon in the tier.

---

Overall, I really like the metagame at the moment, and I think I'll like it even more when some of the obviously broken Pokemon get the banhammer. It gives me an early SM vibe and that metagame was honestly one of the healthiest metagames I've played (besides broken Conk, of course). I'm afraid the tier will be centralized around Jirachi since it's obviously the most splashable Pokemon at the moment, offering immense offensive and defensive utility, but as things stand in OU, Scizor should drop soon, and then we will see a completely different metagame. I think some Pokemon are being brutally overrated, such as Slowking and Weezing-G; they are too passive and are usually slapped in many teams as answers to some threats, but they are very easily overwhelmed and don't fit the offensive pace of the current metagame.

I'm hoping the council decides to ban the obviously broken Pokemon (Gengar, Aegislash, and Conkeldurr) and I wouldn't be against a possible Obstagoon and Crawdaunt ban: these also restrict teambuilding badly, but to a lesser extent, given they are much easier to revenge kill and offer little to no defensive utility most of the time.
 
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Fusion Flare

Formerly Datsplashtho
So I wanna talk about a very special pokemon i've been using during the shifts and ill also drop the squad while i'm at it.
:ss/magneton:
Magneton @ Chople Berry
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 196 HP / 252 SpA / 60 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Metal Sound
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Magnet Rise
s/o to Estarossa for the moveset
The Magnets are real fun to play with right now, because everyone usually relies on Skarmory to keep mons like SD Aegi, Goon, Terrak, Scolipede, Scyther, and Lycanroc at bay, which the magnet can remove to open up opportunities for them to punch holes with This set in particular is adept on taking on mons like the aforementioned Skarmory, Bronzong sets even with EQ, Escav if they click CC first, Non-Heat Crash Raj, and with Chople, this list extends to Lycanroc, Terraks that dont just click EQ and call it a day, Barraskewda, ETC. As for the Evs, they let you outspeed 56 Spe Skarm, and the rest go into HP and Sp.A w/ a Modest nature for more damage output.

Here is the squad that i've been screwing around and having successwith.
:ss/krookodile: :ss/magneton: :ss/slowking: :ss/terrakion: :ss/weezing-galar: :ss/scyther: (click on sprites for Pokepaste)
This is the squad that I've been screwing around with for a while, because the core of Slowking, Magnet, Rocks Krookodile, Scarf Terrak, and Weezing-G has made up a lot of my teams, however I think Scyther really completes this squad, because of its U-turn allowing it to lure in Skarm and get it out of the way with the magneton, allowing for scyther to put in more work. It's speed tier doesn't hurt either. These replays best represents the removal of Steels, particularly Skarmory, and how the pokemon on this Scyther and the team benefits heavily from its removal.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1145680866
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1145682341
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1145704836
 
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TDK

is a Community Leaderis a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
OU & UU Leader
hello again all,

As Hogg said before, we voted on the 3 Pokemon we previously dropped alongside Aegislash and Conkeldurr. With a new vacancy on UU Council, we will be adding Sabella to join us as a rotating member!

Onto the vote...



As such, Aegislash, Conkeldurr, and Gengar are now BANNED from UU. Tagging The Immortal and Marty to make the changes when they have time; thanks!

:Aegislash:

I don't think this ban comes as a surprise to anyone; Aegislash went from Uber to Uber to UU. This Pokemon has an absurd amount of tools to run rampant in this metagame and can run virtually any type of set effectively. Its absurd stats, defensive typing, offensive typing, and movepool give it practically every tool it could ever need in this tier. From SD Balloon to Specs to SubToxic, and many more in between, Aegislash could pull off an array of sets and absolutely dominated the metagame for the short period of time it was around.

:Conkeldurr:

To anyone who played SM UU actively during the early stages of the tier, I'm sure they vividly remember how absurdly broken Conkeldurr was. Conkeldurr is a powerhouse; it's offensive stats, moves, and bulk coupled with Guts make it incredibly difficult to take on. Every game results in a straight up guessing game where, if you get it wrong, you'll probably lose on the spot. And it doesn't help that Conkeldurr's moves are all incredibly easy to spam.

:Gengar:

Gengar returned, and is now gone again. Gengar is quite simple; it's fast and absurdly strong. There is no way to beat its STABs + Focus Blast and its speed tier is extremely good (for something outsped by Noivern). This one is pretty straightforward; it's fast, it's strong, it has Nasty Plot, it's STABs + Focus Blast are absurdly powerful in this metagame, and theres no Pursuit. If you'd like to see some reasoning as to why we banned Gengar in the first place back in January, check here and here.

---

:Crawdaunt: :Obstagoon:

The two Pokemon banned alongside Gengar in January remain unbanned! The metagame has changed a lot since then, and these two Pokemon are nowhere near as dominant as they once were.

That's all for now. We'll be looking into some more Pokemon in the near future and will consider dropping more UUBL Pokemon, but I'm making no promises that we will end up voting to drop something! Just that it's going to be discussed actively in the coming days.
 

Ausma

pick a sack.
is a Pre-Contributor
breaking-news.png


thank jesus christ

Anyway, speaking of Scolipede! I would like to talk about that thing (and another mon)

:ss/scolipede:

So, I finally have experience on this behemoth, and, yeah, honestly, it's way too much for the tier to handle. While it is hard-walled by Skarmory, Skarmory is the only actual counter to it, and it takes lives on Screens, especially with Grimmsnarl being such a great facilitator. It only needs +2, and once it gets a SD Boost, it becomes incredibly hard to switch into with access to surprisingly effective Earthquake coverage, and decent dual STABs in Bug and Poison. On top of this, Scarfers are by no amount an actual check, since sacking your Pokemon or switching hard into it lets it get an immediate boost, and it has pretty good natural speed on top of that anyway. That leaves revenging only to priority, which isn't entirely reliable due to Scolipede's quad resistance to Fighting and respectable bulk. Defensively checking it is your only option, and even then, we only really have Skarmory, which isn't the most optimal pick outside of more defensive teams. Offense and Balance completely fold to it once it gets in on set-up fodder, which obviously is asinine, and I wouldn't be opposed to a ban whatsoever after both using it and playing against it.

:ss/grimmsnarl:

This is mon two on my suspect list, though to a much lesser extent. After using Screens with Scolipede, Grimmsnarl is a supremely good Screens setter and encourages HO far too well for my liking. While it itself isn't broken, similar to Alolan Ninetales, its biggest strength comes in being arguably one of the best Screen setters in the game. With several monstrous set-up breakers such as Lycanroc-Dusk, Scolipede, Crawdaunt, Linoone, and Terrakion that are greatly increased in effectiveness with Screens support, the most significant aspect of Grimmsnarl as a setter is its natural bulk as merit of its typing and general stat spread, meaning it can set up screens numerous times a game. Worst of all, it is really good at keeping them up thanks to access to priority Taunt. As such, Defogging against it is practically impossible unless you have a Dark-type defogger, which is reserved solely to Vullaby and Skuntank. Given Scolipede's raw strength as a set-up sweeper and the greatly increased defensive level of the tier, Grimmsnarl's screens may not be as menacing without it, but with how dangerous Screens are in this tier just by its base, I can definitely see a potential ban given how constant its Screens are and how it's able to set them up several times a game while still posing a surprisingly solid threat. This one isn't particularly high priority in my opinion, since we can't say for sure if it's the breakers causing the issue or if it's Grimmsnarl's efficiency at facilitating them. Guess we'll have to find out for sure, but it is on my radar, personally.

--

Just some really quick thoughts on some mons, especially after the bans. Good work as usual guys, and I continue to look forward to the meta's developments!
 
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Adaam

Light Machoke
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis the 8th Grand Slam Winner
A lot of people are mentioning Grimmsnarl as a potential banworthy mon but I really don’t see it. The comparison to Alolan Ninetales is a bit off since Ninetales can set up both screens in one turn and with one moveslot. Grimm is forced to run Screens + Taunt to stop Defog, leaving it as nothing but a screen setter with no safe way to let anything in. It’s not too hard to stall out turns by bringing in a Defogger, forcing a Taunt, then pivoting out.

No doubt there are some 100 legged behemoths that can burn you at the proverbial stake behind screens, but most games there aren’t simply enough turns with screens up for more than one abuser to set up behind. Grimmsnarl isn’t going anywhere for now.

That said, Scolipede is, how you say, dummy broken
 
Although it might not be the most Meta pick, I think Skuntank can be very useful as the reliable Grimmsnarl answer.
It’s typing makes it immune to any of Grimmsnarl’s targeting status moves, it is hit neutrally by Spirit Breaker, it has nice bulk, and of course Defog.
Even the infiltrator users in Chandelure and Noivern will hate being hit by Thunder Wave, don’t like Grimmsnarl’s STABs, and Grimmsnarl’s teammates can be any Pokemon that could resist their attacks anyways.
With Skuntank, you can always switch into Grimmsnarl, Defog no matter what move it uses, and also threaten Grimmsnarl from both sides with either Sludge Bomb or Poison Jab when Grimmsnarl tries to minimize damage with the wrong screen (as in uses Reflect when you use Sludge Bomb).
Oh, then you have Aftermath always activating if Grimmsnarl has Spirit Break and KOs Skuntank (or if a teammate of Grim’s has only contact moves).

Skuntank is also useful as a general defogger as well, since it has decent bulk and a good typing, letting it Defog several different things.
 

Gadget

Formerly Sanctus Janus
Im surprised by the lack of recognition for Porygon-Z. nasty plot adaptability sets can tear through literal everything, +2 252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 359-424 (50.2 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery. The only good answer to this is AV ttar, and praying you dont loose your speed control. In addition Agility sets absolutely beat down most offense teams now that the two broken ghost types are gone.

FUCK SKARMBLISS (Porygon-Z) @ Life Orb
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Tri Attack
- Thunderbolt
- Recover

In addition this can run either scarf or specs very effectively. Hell even dual dance sets are viable, and Porygon-z appreciates the screens set by grimmsnarl.
 
Im surprised by the lack of recognition for Porygon-Z. nasty plot adaptability sets can tear through literal everything, +2 252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 359-424 (50.2 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery. The only good answer to this is AV ttar, and praying you dont loose your speed control. In addition Agility sets absolutely beat down most offense teams now that the two broken ghost types are gone.

FUCK SKARMBLISS (Porygon-Z) @ Life Orb
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Tri Attack
- Thunderbolt
- Recover

In addition this can run either scarf or specs very effectively. Hell even dual dance sets are viable, and Porygon-z appreciates the screens set by grimmsnarl.
The problem i see with SkarmBliss rn is UU has some nice partner like G-Weezing or Pallosand wich cover his weakness pretty easy..
Also ban Grimmsnarl
 

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