I'm finding that while I'm fairly new to this metagame, the biggest problem I've had playing this tier is Kyurem. There's literally 1 switch-in to Specs Kyurem and that's TTar, and while I'm all for giving the guy more use, needing one pokemon to counter another is how you get a Dracovish and Seismitoad situation, where a lesser-used pokemon is being pushed onto teams to counter one very problematic mon. I definitely think Kyurem needs a suspect test above all else right now.
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★ np: SS UU Stage 5: Change is Gonna Come (Diggersby & Venusaur BANNED)
- Thread starter kumiko
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I find Specs-Kyurem pretty easy to handle as long as you protect scout it, but other than that it's a bit of a guessing game. The substitute variants I usually find more problematic. I agree though that's one of the more powerful mons right now in the tier. Probably more powerful than Jirachi, but I think Jirachi needs a suspect test more than Kyurem atm (Jirachi also handles any Kyurem as long as you don't switch in to EP).
While Tyranitar can take on Specs Kyurem's attacks for the most part, it really doesn't like Earth Power. Same with Jirachi. If you're looking for other answers to Kyurem, Escavilier and Assault Vest Hatterene are also options to help keep Kyurem in check. There's also offensive answers you can use alongside defensive checks to help keep the pressure on Kyurem. These offensive answers include Lycanroc-Dusk, Scarf Jirachi, Terrakion, Mienshao, and Cobalion. Obviously there are more pokemon that can offensively pressure Kyurem, but I was listing the main ones. Hope this helps!
haven't seen anyone mention my boy bronzong yet, dude easily takes every hit and can set rocks or threaten with STAB gyro ball or flash cannon. One noteworthy thing is that hatterene destroys gyro ball zong, so it might even be worth it to pack heavy slam as well as an additional steel move to hit them both
The main problem with Zong as a Kyurem check is he has no reliable healing, so he only checks Specs twice and he's set up bait for Sub Roost Kyurem, especially since Gyro Ball has so little PP.
Also Shadow Ball over one of your Ice moves is a clean 2HKO.
You can also use Magneton to trap him so easily.
Also Shadow Ball over one of your Ice moves is a clean 2HKO.
You can also use Magneton to trap him so easily.
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really ? i did this post about zong friday
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong: 103-122 (30.4 - 36%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Bronzong can check kyurem specs because ice beam is doing nothing to zong, who can set up rock on his face, whitch pressure a lot kyurem specs.
Physical def zong can beat sub roost kyurem + sub roost dd kyurem because body press is doing so much dmg : (49.6 - 58.8% )
The advantage of playing body press is to be able to run either psychic or heavy slam according to your desires.
last thing, psychic + body press destroy magneton, so you can really in your magneton on a bronzong for me and bronzong can run eq whitch OHKO magneton
Whether it's with the spdef set or the def set, I think bronzong will return in UU
I did say "can only check him twice". It's a ridiculously obvious switch in as well, so running Shadow Ball to catch him is great. Something like Sub/Roost/Dragon Dance/Icicle Spear or Scale Shot laughs in Bronzongs face as well.
Specially defensive Bronzong takes 2 Thunderbolys from Magneton and can't one hit without EQ. Physically defensive will be dead from Thunderbolt + Draco meteor switch in.
Some kind of bonkers Assault Vest set might work?
Specially defensive Bronzong takes 2 Thunderbolys from Magneton and can't one hit without EQ. Physically defensive will be dead from Thunderbolt + Draco meteor switch in.
Some kind of bonkers Assault Vest set might work?
We don't need an argument about Bronzong, it's a great Kyurem answer and it's fairly resilient to Magneton's trapping attempts, it's just not an amazing mon in the current meta for a variety of reasons including a) massive amount of Dark types, b) strong breakers like Keldeo not rly caring about it and most importantly, c) massive competition with Jirachi, which is essentially just better in every way.
Speaking of Jirachi, the council has been talking about it lately and its unhealthy grip on the tier. Most of us are in agreement that it's far too constricting and in many cases mandatory when building, and it's not a stretch to say that almost any team without a Jirachi would be better off with one. It's a very central mon in the tier though, so we don't want to quickban it ourselves; as such, expect a public suspect test for Jirachi some time in the near future.
Since I don't like leaving these posts feeling empty, here's a fun set I've been experimenting with. Taken directly from DPP OU, but this tier is similar enough to DPP in terms of the mons that we have, so it works.
Surprisingly good nuke, destroys shit like Skarm/Palo/Rotom/Weezing that normally likes to come in on you so it's a pretty fun breaker in that regard. Roost also gives it surprisingly good longevity so it can hard into 3 of those mons and not rly care abt getting worn down that much (watch out for rotom bc naive means hydro does a lot) and it can also come into stuff like Tyranitar and even some Jirachi sets. Very cool mon that deserves some exploration.
Speaking of Jirachi, the council has been talking about it lately and its unhealthy grip on the tier. Most of us are in agreement that it's far too constricting and in many cases mandatory when building, and it's not a stretch to say that almost any team without a Jirachi would be better off with one. It's a very central mon in the tier though, so we don't want to quickban it ourselves; as such, expect a public suspect test for Jirachi some time in the near future.
Since I don't like leaving these posts feeling empty, here's a fun set I've been experimenting with. Taken directly from DPP OU, but this tier is similar enough to DPP in terms of the mons that we have, so it works.
Flygon @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Earthquake
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Roost
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Earthquake
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Roost
Surprisingly good nuke, destroys shit like Skarm/Palo/Rotom/Weezing that normally likes to come in on you so it's a pretty fun breaker in that regard. Roost also gives it surprisingly good longevity so it can hard into 3 of those mons and not rly care abt getting worn down that much (watch out for rotom bc naive means hydro does a lot) and it can also come into stuff like Tyranitar and even some Jirachi sets. Very cool mon that deserves some exploration.
Speaking of suspects, I wanted to know some of people's thoughts on Lycanroc-Dusk. I personally believe it's far better than terrakion in most ways, and is kinda restraining on the tier, as without any prep specifically for Lycanroc-D, you'll suffer for it. It's access to stupid coverage which is all boosted by it's ability. Even it's priority is boosted, which it's priority also is stupid because it just deletes half of the viable revenge killers. On top of that, Sucker Punch bops half of what Accelerock doesnt. After priority, that leaves about 1/4 of viable revenge killers actually being able to deal with it. The fact that it basically mandates Palossand/Doublade/Golruk (I think Golurk dies anyways but I may be underestimating it's bulk) is stupid enough in it's own right. Obviously, its not perfect, as it's still checked by stuff like Scarf Mienshao, and it's bulk is pitiful, but I feel like the positives outweigh the negatives by a considerable margin. These are just my thoughts though, so feel free to share your own opinion!
Katy
Banned deucer.
i also think Lycanroc-D is pretty good in the tier with a fast speed-tier and a good attack stat combined with tough claws and with access to many attacks which are boosted due to the fact that most of them make contact. I tried different Lycanroc-Sets, from SD +3 Attacks, SR + 3 Attacks and even 4 Attacks coupled with a Life Orb and I think all sets are pretty viable with necessary coverage-options to bop usual checks. I myself tried Fire Fang to bop Doublade upon switch-in and with S-Edge and Acceleroc it has such a good combination of STABs. It's new toll Close Combat (which is also Tough Claws boosted) is also a very good option on it as it does more than Drill Run did. Lycanroc-D can bop Cobalion with Close Combat and it does a hefty amount of damage to the likes of Jirachi and Bronzong (but you can run Fire Fang here, which I did). Sucker-Sets on the other hand can give it a secondary priority move and it bops Zong and Rachi as well when weakened. I think Lycanroc-D is one of the very top dogs in the tier, which you should consider in the teambuilding-process.
First post in the UU forum, second overall in Smogon forums (Been lurking since Gen 8 started).
I wanted to suggest/ask about a possible check/counter to Jirachi (mostly the scarf and Paraflinch flavors): Mudsdale.
Mudsdale gets inner focus, and with a hearty physical bulk, you can basically switch in and always force Jirachi out.
With the exception of Close Combat, Muds also does an okay job as a check to Terrakion/Lycan-D (although it's not great at this.)
I don't really know if Muds could find a home in UU right now, given that it completely lacks recovery options other than RestTalk or being passed a Wish, but I'm curious if anyone else has looked into the available "Un-flinchable" pokemon available to the tier with any success?
I wanted to suggest/ask about a possible check/counter to Jirachi (mostly the scarf and Paraflinch flavors): Mudsdale.
Mudsdale gets inner focus, and with a hearty physical bulk, you can basically switch in and always force Jirachi out.
With the exception of Close Combat, Muds also does an okay job as a check to Terrakion/Lycan-D (although it's not great at this.)
I don't really know if Muds could find a home in UU right now, given that it completely lacks recovery options other than RestTalk or being passed a Wish, but I'm curious if anyone else has looked into the available "Un-flinchable" pokemon available to the tier with any success?
Why fire fang when Lycanrock as Access to crunch wich cover zong, rachi, Pallosand and doublade??
i also think Lycanroc-D is pretty good in the tier with a fast speed-tier and a good attack stat combined with tough claws and with access to many attacks which are boosted due to the fact that most of them make contact. I tried different Lycanroc-Sets, from SD +3 Attacks, SR + 3 Attacks and even 4 Attacks coupled with a Life Orb and I think all sets are pretty viable with necessary coverage-options to bop usual checks. I myself tried Fire Fang to bop Doublade upon switch-in and with S-Edge and Acceleroc it has such a good combination of STABs. It's new toll Close Combat (which is also Tough Claws boosted) is also a very good option on it as it does more than Drill Run did. Lycanroc-D can bop Cobalion with Close Combat and it does a hefty amount of damage to the likes of Jirachi and Bronzong (but you can run Fire Fang here, which I did). Sucker-Sets on the other hand can give it a secondary priority move and it bops Zong and Rachi as well when weakened. I think Lycanroc-D is one of the very top dogs in the tier, which you should consider in the teambuilding-process.
Some people are running Inner Focus Umbreon to be able to handle any kind of Jirachi. Umbreon is probably the only viable counter to every set of Jirachi thanks to its great bulk overall (both on physical and special side) and access to Wish + Foul Play which allows it to overall be effective vs Jirachi. Unfortunately, Umbreon is really a niche Pokemon (like almost any Inner Focus Pokemon) and allows so much threats to come on it (Keldeo, Terrakion, Cobalion etc..).
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Umbreon is punished by trick, not so great, but he's a fine check.
I'm not sure Jirachi is an issue, he is a pokemon you have to handle with carefully plays not impossible predictions.
I'm much worried about Golurk who's near impossible to check, yeah "to check". Poltergeist is incredebly dumb, even frosslass become a good physical attacker, damn we live an amazing period. #froslasswithCB
Golurk is slow and both his STABs have immunities, so he's really not that bad to check unless your team doesn't have anything immune to either of his STABs. His other big move, Dynamic Punch, also has an immunity. He needs a turn to set up Rock Polish to try to sweep, which is oftentimes more effective than a CB set. Given the two immunities to his STAB, a CB set is actually quite difficult to pull off effectively. Even still, a pokemon like Skarmory or G-Weezing (w/ Levitate) with max defense doesn't sweat him that much.
Jirachi, on the other hand, can use so many different sets, cripple teams with status support, flinchax its way to victories in key moments, pivot out with U-Turn, set up hazards, set itself up with CM, go physical, special, or mixed, go full tank, etc. etc. The main issue I have with Jirachi is that you can predict it perfectly and still lose because you got flinchaxed or parahaxed or paraflinch haxed. That alone isn't enough to ban it, but when you combine it with all the other utility that it has, then it seems to be a bit too centralizing to the metagame.
Wanted to give my own thoughts on the metagame briefly, to be quite frank I really do not enjoy building or playing this current iteration of SS UU at all. I admit that I could just not be building very well, but it feels like an awful lot of games come down to matchup simply because we have a collection of common threats as well as a couple of extreme playstyles that are so strong that it seems impossible to account for them to an adequate standard on one team, which leads to having to hope you don't see a certain threat or that it's badly played in order to have a shot at beating it. Jirachi is one of the biggest offenders here but I'm also including stuff like Kyurem/Terrakion/Lycan-D aswell as webs, screens and voltturn providing the support to some of these goons and other mons to make them unplayable unless you have very specific options to beat them.
I'm not naive enough to think I should be able to counter everything on every team I make, every team will always have weaknesses but I also think as a builder you should be able to manage that and at least have some options vs your weaknesses, whereas right now in my own building and in the teams that I'm seeing being used in UUWC it feels like this is really difficult to achieve. My hope is that with a public suspect test for Jirachi (in which I would like to see it banned) and Kyurem looking like it's leaving us at the end of the month due to it's usage in OLT, that we can get closer to a tier where there is fewer constraints on building and where less games are decided by matchup.
I'm not naive enough to think I should be able to counter everything on every team I make, every team will always have weaknesses but I also think as a builder you should be able to manage that and at least have some options vs your weaknesses, whereas right now in my own building and in the teams that I'm seeing being used in UUWC it feels like this is really difficult to achieve. My hope is that with a public suspect test for Jirachi (in which I would like to see it banned) and Kyurem looking like it's leaving us at the end of the month due to it's usage in OLT, that we can get closer to a tier where there is fewer constraints on building and where less games are decided by matchup.
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