Freeze dry?
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Metagame np: Stage 1 - We Might Be Dead By Tomorrow
- Thread starter Raseri
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Isn't that reserved for Articuno, Lapras, and Cryogonal (And Delibird, I guess)? Its not so common that you have to worry about it with a 2 pokemon core.
Considering Cryogonal's usage, Freeze Dry is definitely not uncommon, especially when it is such a useful tool to dismantle most bulky Water + Grass cores. Freeze Dry should be prepared for.
It indeed is a good tank for balanced teams. However, it is better to invest in special defense imo as you are not gonna be taking physical hits well even with investment. And, the special defense investment actually lets it to tank special attacks fairly well. Also, I run Thick Fat as it gives Hariyama at least a niche over Gurdurr and believe me, it checks Fire Spam fairly well. But, that's just my thoughts :)
Hariyama @ Assault Vest
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Bullet Punch / Fake Out
- Ice Punch
- Knock Off
This thing is a surprisingly good tank/wallbreaker. It's sort of the Conkeldurr of NU (fck you, Gurdurr). Super high base HP, so investing in Defense is reasonable. Close Combat is a bit awkward seeing as it lowers the stats you're "investing" in (252 EVs for Def, AV for SpDef), but it's quite powerful for wallbreaking. Ice Punch is for Vileplume and such, and Knock Off is Knock Off. Prio move of your choice. If only it had a better movepool and didn't hate Tomb/Puff so much.
Unfortunately it may be a bit outclassed by Gurdurr, but who knows, Gurdurr might move up from usage or something.
Freeze Dry is a problem I noticed while making my team; however, considering the only notable user is Cryogonal, you just really need a decently strong physical attacker, and Stealth Rock up and it's a goner. Basically, Spiritomb and Slurpuff, both mentioned in my post, can easily remove it - even Ferroseed can switch-in and threaten a kill with Gyro Ball. (Punchshroom Swagalge)
The niche yama has over gurdurr is being able to stop fire spam in its tracks & being able to tank special hits. Yama is a fantastic check to fire spam, as it can tank special hits and then KO with close combat and priority.
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 128 SpD Assault Vest Thick Fat Hariyama: 136-162 (31.7 - 37.7%) -- 90.8% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Magmortar Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 128 SpD Assault Vest Thick Fat Hariyama: 105-125 (24.4 - 29.1%) -- 99.6% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Pyroar Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 128 SpD Assault Vest Thick Fat Hariyama: 100-118 (23.3 - 27.5%) -- 69.8% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Pyroar Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 128 SpD Assault Vest Hariyama: 163-193 (37.9 - 44.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Hariyama Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Typhlosion: 250-295 (83.8 - 98.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Hariyama Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Magmortar: 282-333 (96.5 - 114%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Hariyama Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Pyroar: 534-630 (170 - 200.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Granted, it can't switch in multiple times on fire spam, as it loses a big chunk of its HP each time it switches in. That said, it is a great check to fire spam as it can take a hit & KO with priority + close combat.
Gurdurr's niche, on the other hand, is being able to repeatedly take physical hits, recover back lost hp with drain punch, and become a formidable bulky set up sweeper with bulk up. I don't believe one is outclassed by the other.
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BERD @ No Item
Ability: Defeatist
EVs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Acrobatics
- Roost
- Earthquake / Earth Power
- Taunt
Not really innovative, but me and Soulgayzer have been playing around with this set, and it really is clutch. Archeops is one of few pokemon versatile enough to punch through both Stall and Offense alike, and this set has all the tools to do so. Honestly, these four moves are perfect for Archeops to help a balanced or bulky offensive team tackle both. The EV spread is tailored so that it has full power, and outspeeds everything up to Timid non-scarf Pyroar. 32 HP still gives it a odd number to switch into SR and *some* bulk, and makes it slightly fatter just in case it needs to tank a weaker hit. Acrobatics and Earthquake have near perfect coverage in the NU tier, and are extremely powerful coming off of a 140 base Attack, and deals tons to most opponents. Taunt is really the crux of the set, as it prevents hazards and shuts down stall, while shitting on any chance for the opponent to recover. Finally, roost is your main form of recovery, pulling out of Defeatist during clutch situations, and potentially stalling out an opponent if needed. Its a really fun set to run, and can support the team well if used correctly!
Archeops is great, and even with no item it still has about the same physical attacking stat as life orb Shiftry ( who is no longer with us ;[ ). Has great mixed attacking stats, taunt, and roost to get it out of defeatist range. Acrobatics absolutely destroys vileplume and does big damage to it's non-resists while earth power can do the same to mons that are bulkier on the physical side. Also has a decent movepool consisting of heat wave, earth power, earthquake, knock off, acrobatics, stone edge, rock slide, and u-turn. If real, you could run a sashed taunt stealth rock endeavor head smash/anymove suicide lead to prevent hazards from going up while also getting your own up.
call me mr. innovation
shakin' up the nation
with freeze dry piloswine
i'm on cloud nine
Hey guys! I'd like to present to you one of the most innovative sets I've used in a long time. I was chatting with Trinitrotoluene about how cool (hue) Piloswine is in NU, when I said "pity it can't do anything to Seismitoad." He then suggested Freeze Dry, something used by Mamoswine to lure in and defeat Rotom-Wash, its most common check; this works extremely well in NU.
Piloswine @ Eviolite
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 48 SpA / 208 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake
- Icicle Spear
- Freeze-Dry
With 48 Special Attack EVs, Piloswine OHKOs Seismitoad after a Spike. The 208 Speed EVs seem extremely late, and they are. However, it is necessary, as this allows it to outspeed Seismitoad; while 196 EVs would do this, I went up to 204 because that also outspends Garbodor, but this left me with a spare point that I put into Speed.The choice of Life Orb, while controversial, is necessary due to Piloswine's relatively low Special Attack stat, and helps bolster its effectiveness as a mixed attacker. Eviolite was chosen over Life Orb as it lets you still 2HKO Seismitoad, Pelipper, etc. while keeping your great bulk. Finally, a Naughty Nature does not compromise its good physical bulk, which is a valuable asset when it comes to checking Archeops, Swellow, and more.
And no, I am not using Assault Vest.
shakin' up the nation
with freeze dry piloswine
i'm on cloud nine
Hey guys! I'd like to present to you one of the most innovative sets I've used in a long time. I was chatting with Trinitrotoluene about how cool (hue) Piloswine is in NU, when I said "pity it can't do anything to Seismitoad." He then suggested Freeze Dry, something used by Mamoswine to lure in and defeat Rotom-Wash, its most common check; this works extremely well in NU.
Piloswine @ Eviolite
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 48 SpA / 208 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake
- Icicle Spear
- Freeze-Dry
With 48 Special Attack EVs, Piloswine OHKOs Seismitoad after a Spike. The 208 Speed EVs seem extremely late, and they are. However, it is necessary, as this allows it to outspeed Seismitoad; while 196 EVs would do this, I went up to 204 because that also outspends Garbodor, but this left me with a spare point that I put into Speed.
And no, I am not using Assault Vest.
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This may just be me drunk posting, but why the fuck would u use non-SR non-Eviolite piloswine, lel
Bu having your Piloswine deal with Seismitoad (who may well be a speedy variant), you made your Piloswine worse against nearly everything else since you threw its bulk away. There are far less costly ways to lure out Toad for the kill, like Power Herb Solarbeam Fire-types, or Grass Knot Barbaracle @3@
There are always lots of things that can kill seismitoed and having the extra bulk and stealth rock is really nice except if u ever want something totally unexpected and something fun and out of the ordinary it's a pretty cool set. It also kills things like ludicolo in one hit which can be useful on switch in, if predicting earthquake or SR. It might not be the best except its a cool set to add new offensive presence to a motly defensive pokemon.
Piloswine already has good offensive presence with its Ice and Ground coverage, and the fact that it can afford offensive investment while keeping its bulk thanks to Eviolite. However, unlike Mamoswine, Piloswine is relying on its bulk to function well in the meta; running a speedy Freeze Dry Piloswine without Eviolite is about as niche as running a defensive Mamo in OU, for comparison's sake.
Hello, I'd just like to put it out there that yes, spike stacking/ SR teams are amazing
Yes shiftry is gone, yes defog may not be used alot now, I barely honestly see anyone bothering to remove hazards ;-;
But that doesn't change how powerful they can be.
I dunno if this is common or not, but someone suggested to me this primeape set, cause i can't build teams for myself
Primeape @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Close Combat
- Ice Punch
- Encore
You all may be thinking, what the hell dude? But its not bad at all. Encore utterly wrecks those who try and defog, giving primeape more boosts, and safety googles is a nice item to block sleep powder and whatnot. The main thing with this set is y'know, bluffing it, which i suck at
Yes shiftry is gone, yes defog may not be used alot now, I barely honestly see anyone bothering to remove hazards ;-;
But that doesn't change how powerful they can be.
I dunno if this is common or not, but someone suggested to me this primeape set, cause i can't build teams for myself
Primeape @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Close Combat
- Ice Punch
- Encore
You all may be thinking, what the hell dude? But its not bad at all. Encore utterly wrecks those who try and defog, giving primeape more boosts, and safety googles is a nice item to block sleep powder and whatnot. The main thing with this set is y'know, bluffing it, which i suck at
I have had trouble using primeape sets that aren't scarf so I don't think safetygoggles are that good. I don't think i would run that set ever/often. Encore is a kind of situational move that i don't think would bring much use and safety goggles are useless more often than not. I think regular scarf or life orb set would be better.
Thanks to atomicllamas and Punchshroom for basically telling me that LO Piloswine is dumb, lol. I'm using Eviolite now, which 2HKOs everything you want it to. If you have any prediction skills, it still achieves the same result while having much better bulk ad being all around more viable. Thanks again!
I mean that set isnt bad for a primeape set, i dont know why people are saying it is. It is just substituting fist plate out for safety goggles, which is a personal preference and pretty much can help you bluff the vital spirit Primeape and encourage your opponent to defog meaning you can get a really easy +2. Encore is there to get +4 and force the defogger, which most of the time counters primeape, to switch out forcing something else to take a heavy hit. This set should be used mostly on entry hazard based teams imo, but it isnt a bad set as implied above.
No need to be so rude DFB. That set is too situational tbh, instead of using goggles use a lum berry so you dont get burned at least. I would also put SD on the set so you dont rely on the opponents defog to setup and i would take U turn and ice punch out for knock off so you can knock the item if he switches the encored mon other wise you ll get walled by something like qwillfish even after a defiant boost
Are you even talking about the same Pokemon tho; Primeape does not get Swords Dance or Knock Off.
Also Montsegur, I think that set is exploiting mechanics exclusive to Showdown, where Sleep moves failing against Vital Spirit and Safety Goggles display the same message, where it would not be the case in-game (ability display). Unless the Safety Goggles message is different from the Vital Spirit message (can't recall too well), in which the case the whole bluff would be a whiff.
Edit: Montsegur I know for a fact that Vital Spirit pops up as a different message from Safety Goggles. What I want to know is whether they show the same/different message on Showdown.
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Yeah I havent bought a new DS so haven't played in game with any of items. That would be interesting to test out though, because if it does display the same message then it could actually be decent not just on Showdown. Also Pooch13 the set he was suggesting isnt the normal one, normal primeape like to run band/scarf/fist plate and encore is incredibly useful on primeape as it allows it to stop set up sweepers that are slower than it. Also bulk up isnt recommended on Primeape as its completely outclassed by Gurdurr who can do that job much better. Primape is much better at being a fast pivot/revenge killer.
Im completely aware of scarfed Ape and that BU Gurdurr is better but I was only trying to improve his set, encore allows for am easier BU setup
Where can I complain about broken stuff? If this is the right place I would like to say that smashpass needs to be banned. Imo the move baton pass in itself is a broken move and instead of banning combusken, it would have been much better to ban BP. I have faced smashpass gorebyss a couple of times now, and I am really struggling to see how to counter it. After a smash, the gay smashpass user can choose which threat he wants to give the triple +2 boost to. And making a team that can counter a +2/+2 Kangaskahn, and a +2/+2 Mesprit is very hard. And if you have spiritomb, and steelix with roar, then chances are the rest of your team cant deal with gorebyss, or some random 3rd threat the opponent may have, such as feraligatr. Srsly, someone plz get rid of smashpass, and preferably baton pass altogether.
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