Metagame np: Stage 4 - Celebration (Feraligatr Banned)

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With this month, we get a gigantic change to the NU metagame. Claydol, Heliolisk, Mawile, Quagsire, and Virizion are now NU! However, we are saying goodbye to our friends Accelgor, Glalie, and Kabutops, as they are moving up to RU to combat the giants there.

In this thread you can about the new drops and anything related to the NU metagame. To quote Molk again:

Molk said:
  • New Stage - If there are tier shifts, make some predictions on what the metagame will be like or comment on the changes
  • Suspect Testing - If you believe that anything is worthy of a suspect test, post about it and why you think it deserves a suspect test. (nothing will be chosen as a suspect until at least two weeks in though, if even that)
  • Metagame trends - What are the most common or effective strategies? Are there any Pokemon that you think will rise in usage?
  • Top threats - What should the main priorities be when considering a team for NU?
  • Playstyles - Which are most effective? Are there any that cannot succeed?
  • Cores - What are some popular or solid cores? Why do they work so well, and what can be used to beat them?
  • Underrated Pokemon - Just because a Pokemon isn't used much doesn't mean its bad! There are plenty of hidden gems scattered throughout low NU and PU, and possibly even Little Cup!
  • New sets - If you have a unique set that you've had success with recently, share it.
As many of you know, a suspect of Mega Steelix was going to happen, and it still is, but the changes we got today count as a major meta shift, so the test will be delayed slightly to see how the new metagame looks and to see if anything else stands out as suspect worthy. But don't worry, we will still be going through with something!

So go have fun with this metagame, prove that Claydol is the king of NU :)

and come join us on PS! to talk about the new changes, we are always looking for new people!
 
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feraligatr sure took a hit, but just wanted to throw out that it still has access to natural gift to fuck quagsire over. rindo berry is 80 bp, while liechi is 100 bp. both would also be useful for gatr in case the opponent doesnt have quagsire.

ehhh thinking about it that really is a bit of a 4mss for gatr, and an only average gimmick. still could potentially see a bit of use in case you want to lure out and kill quag for something like malamar i guess
 

boltsandbombers

i'm sorry mr. man
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The addition of these new Pokemon make things really interesting to say the least.

Heliolisk: Great speed tier, solid special attack, great movepool (Volt Switch, Hyper Voice, Grass Knot, Surf, Focus Blast, etc), checks Ferligatr which is pretty nice.
Virizion: Probably will be one of if not the most versatile and threatening setup sweeper in the tier between its CM and SD sets; great stats overall and another gatr check.
Mawile: Unique typing, another great SD sweeper and also provides some cool utility stuff like Super Fang, Taunt, and Stealth Rock, and it can go mixed with stuff like Fire Blast for Mega Lix.
Quagsire: Yet another gatr check and checks a bunch of other setup sweepers.
Claydol: eh

Losing Kabutops is a shame, loved that mon so much; great utility and hit really hard.
Indifferent on Accelgor.

Looking forward to the new meta n-n
 

Pokedots

How should I live to be happy
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THE KING OF NU (Claydol) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Earth Power
- Grass Knot
- Shadow Ball

252+ SpA Life Orb Claydol Shadow Ball vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Mesprit: 161-190 (49.6 - 58.6%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Claydol Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Eviolite Rhydon: 354-416 (85.5 - 100.4%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Claydol Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 200 HP / 56 SpD Seismitoad: 395-468 (98.5 - 116.7%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Claydol Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 216+ SpD Mega Camerupt: 203-242 (59 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Claydol Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Steelix: 211-250 (59.6 - 70.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Claydol Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Garbodor: 330-393 (90.6 - 107.9%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

Switch into hazard setters->Beat them 1v1->Shadow Ball spinblockers->Spin away hazards->Be useless against everything else
edit: actually not the worst lol
 
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nice thread name wonder where you came up with that one hehebwoi

Viriz and helio look like a ton of fun to use on offense, maw has incredibly unique typing, and quag is a godsend to stall. Its cool to see that all playstyles got a buff with these drops and it makes the meta really cool and diverse.

Edit above: stop the meta isnt ready to handle such a godly set
 

innovamania

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So when I saw NU got some new drops I was really excited because it's been a while since NU got some drops, and after looking at the list of drops my immediate thought was, "Vileplume is gonna be really good." So here it is.



Vileplume @ Black Sludge
Ability: Effect Spore
EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 SpD
Calm Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Giga Drain
- Aromatherapy/Leech Seed/Hidden Power Fire
- Moonlight

Yes that's right it's a mixed Vileplume, but before you call me garbage or bad just hear me out. With the given EV spread you aren't 2hkoed by any attacks from Heliolisk, Virizion, Mawile, Quagsire or Claydol.
Relevant Calcs
- 252 Atk Virizion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 184 Def Vileplume: 80-95 (22.5 - 26.8%) -- possible 5HKO after Black Sludge recovery
- 252 Atk Virizion Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 184 Def Vileplume: 128-152 (36.1 - 42.9%) -- 96.4% chance to 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
- 252 SpA Choice Specs Heliolisk Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 72+ SpD Vileplume: 160-190 (45.1 - 53.6%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
- 252 SpA Choice Specs Heliolisk Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 72+ SpD Vileplume: 89-105 (25.1 - 29.6%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO after Black Sludge recovery
- 0 SpA Sheer Force Mawile Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 72+ SpD Vileplume: 118-140 (33.3 - 39.5%) -- 17.1% chance to 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery



Moveset is standard, Sludge Bomb and Giga Drain for stab, Synthesis for recovery, and the final moveslot is up to you. Aromatherapy can be used to help support your team. Hidden Power Fire can be used to beat Mawile easier and be able to at least hit Steelix even if it is for minuscule damage. Leech Seed is the last option and is sort of a middle ground. It's let you beat steel types by wearing them down like Hidden Power Fire but can also support your team by giving them hp back when they switchin. All in all Vileplume will be a great Pokemon in this tier because it checks all the new drops.

This shouldn't be confused with a counter tho. You can use Vileplume as your only Virizion/Heliolisk check and need some other ones on your team, but they don't need to be hard checks. Particularly you'll want a check for CM Virizion because Vileplume struggles against it. A great teammate for this set would be Xatu, because it has good synergy with Vileplume and it beats the cm Virizion set. So their you go, you shouldn't be afraid of the new drops. It's been forever since NU got some drops and I can't wait to see how the metagame develops.
 
Okay, so I know a lot of people are under the impression that Feraligatr is no longer an amazing Pokemon in the meta anymore, but I think the Dragon Dance set is going to be more popular now. Three Pokemon have been introduced to take on Gatr (Quagsire, Virizion, and Heliolisk), however, with Ice Punch in Gatr's arsenal and Virizion's lackluster physical defense, I'm going to put that one aside. Quagsire is a solid counter, there's no doubt about that, only way around is HP Grass which is better off being taken care of by another Pokemon (Virizion will make a great partner). Gatr has access to Earthquake which catches Heliolisk on the switch, or after a boost or two.

252 Atk Feraligatr Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Heliolisk: 316-372 (119.2 - 140.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Ice Punch cuts Helio's hp in half anyways making it easier to take care of with another mon. In theory, this would make a good set:

Feraligatr @ Lum Berry / Life Orb / Mystic Water
252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
-Dragon Dance
-Waterfall
-Ice Punch
-Earthquake

One could also go the Sub DD route, but you give up valuable Ice Punch or EQ coverage with that. So I just wanted to post this to say, yes, it did get a hit in viability, especially the Swords Dance variant, but Feraligatr is still a fearsome threat that is capable of sweeping teams. Also, since Quaggy isn't exactly a viable offense Pokemon, DD Gatr is very capable of sweeping through those types of teams.

Really excited to play this meta!
 
0 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Mawile Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega-Steelix: 174-205 (49.1 - 57.9%) -- 55.5% chance to 2HKO

LURE did they say? This mon will be cool af, looking forward to messing around with it for a while :]
 

Shuckleking87

"Assault vest makes everything better" AV Seaking, BT
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

THE KING OF NU (Claydol) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Shadow Ball

252+ SpA Life Orb Claydol Shadow Ball vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Mesprit: 161-190 (49.6 - 58.6%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Claydol Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Eviolite Rhydon: 237-281 (57.2 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Claydol Hidden Power Grass vs. 200 HP / 56 SpD Seismitoad: 296-354 (73.8 - 88.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Claydol Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 216+ SpD Mega Camerupt: 203-242 (59 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Claydol Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Steelix: 211-250 (59.6 - 70.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Claydol Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Garbodor: 330-393 (90.6 - 107.9%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

Switch into hazard setters->Spin away hazards->Beat them 1v1->Be useless against everything else
grass knot > hp grass imo
 

QueenOfLuvdiscs

Tier 3 Audino sub
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

The Lord Virizion has arrived!!
Virizion @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 30 HP / 0 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SpA / 30 SpD
- Calm Mind
- Focus Blast
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Flying]​

HP Flying Virizion is gonna be good; you don't lose any speed IVs with HP Flying and you can beat all other Cm variants cuz you're hitting them with a x4 hit rather than x2. and before some guy is like 'you get walled by poison types and xatu!', you have 5 other mons, more notably, just run psychic/t-bolt mesprit to beat the checks this set has
 

CanadianWifier

Run Away With Me
Teddeh that Mawile is not much of a lure if it's just basically the standard set until mlix leaves :p


Stuff that left:
Accelgor:
rip never used it don't care at all.
Kabutops: rip never used it don't care at all.
Glalie: this was still NU? lol.

Stuff we got:
Virizion:

I think a really effective Viri set people are overlooking is Work Up with Giga Drain, CC, and some form of coverage consisting of Zeb Headbutt, Stone Edge, a Hidden Power, Sub, etc. While NU doesn't exactly have Gligar+Umbreon cores to break through like BW UU had, I still think it's a super threatening set for stall to deal with, as it can pick and choose it's counters. Outside of that, Lum SD is really solid, with coverage again to pick and choose counters. SD / Leaf Blade / Stone Edge / Close Combat looks amazing, with Zen Headbutt being an option to beat Vileplume and Weezings. CM is actually the weakest looking set, which is a testament to how good this mon is because CM is still great in comparison to other CM user due to access to STAB recovery :) All in all, Virizion is so good it's going to shape the meta around it - it's really looking nice this time around without Fletchinder to revenge it.

Heliolisk:
Btw: I'm super ready to use Air Balloon Heliolisk to fuck over all those posters who think they're being cute by using DD gatr with Earthquake. Heliolisk is your god now, Feraligatr, you cannot defeat him. Bow down.
I already talked about Heliolisk - straight up one of my favourite pokemon, and it'll be killer in NU. Hyper Voice / Volt Switch / Grass Knot / Surf | Focus Blast will eat apart NU - hitting any wannabe electric switchins super fucking hard, spamming Volt Switch for momentum, and making gatr cry. Nice to see such a great pokemon with a cool cry and awesome movepool in NU. If you want to read more on Heliolisk, click here to get my thoughts from the earlier thread. If only you existed last gen, Heliolisk, if only.

Mawile:
Mawile is something I've looked forward to for months (haven't we all) but now that Quaggy dropped along with it I doubt the SD set I was hyping will actually be that good. Click here to see earlier posts about my favourite little jaw monster. Quaggy can chew a +0 Life Orb Play Rough and either fish for a Scald burn or just EQ it to death. A set with Super Fang, Rocks, and Knock could work I guess, but idk how useful it'll be in comparison to what it could have been :( RIP Mawile, you were basically dead upon arrival, which is sad cause I really looked forward to our time together.

Quagsire:
First off, welcome home. Gone since mid BW1, finally back where you belong. I think Quaggy is honestly going to be one of the most influential pokemon in ORAS NU. Being able to straight up make DD, SD, Shift Gear, and Malamar useless all at one is a godsend for both Stall and Balance. It's the Unaware pokemon NU needed, but not the one it deserved. Just the standard Scald / Toxic / Recover / Earthquake set is looking strong, but Curse can also be super dangerous, and is almost required if you don't wanna be stalled out by Resttalk Malamar. It definitely has all the tools it needs to be a premier pokemon though. Seriously I wouldn't be surprised to see it as an A+ rank mon. Much like Virizion, I feel the meta will be shaped around what can and what can't beat it.

Claydol:
The mon I care the least about. Hey, at least we have a spinner who gets access to Rocks that isn't named Sandslash.. Levitate is cool for spinning webs and spikes, it's also kinda bulky but it's typing is soo meh.. I feel an offensive set is honestly gonna be the best bet, maybe Psychic / Earth Power / Ice Beam? / Rapid Spin. By far the least exciting thing that dropped, but hey at least we got a spinner out of it. Now if only we could get our hands on Skuntank..

Overall:
New NU is looking really fun. Can't wait for the M-Lix suspect, can't wait to try out all the possible Virizion sets, can't wait to use my bae Heliolisk, can't wait to try to make Mawile useful. Still not thrilled that I need to have an AV Yama or Mantine on every team, but maybe this will help distract me from the pain. Also I really can't be mad with a tier that has Heliolisk and SF Mawile

.
 
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wow! the neverused tier is bound to be shaken up by such incredible drops! here are some cool sample sets to try out on the new pokemon!

Virizion @ Assault Vest | Justified
252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe | Jolly
Leaf Blade / Close Combat / Sacred Sword / Stone Edge

Quagsire @ Assault Vest | Unaware
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD | Adamant
Waterfall / Earthquake / Ice Punch / Counter

Mawile @ Assault Vest | Intimidate
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD | Adamant
Play Rough / Sucker Punch / Iron Head / Fire Fang

Heliolisk @ Assault Vest | Dry Skin
252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe | Timid
Volt Switch / Thunderbolt / Surf / Grass Knot

Claydol @ Assault Vest | Levitate
252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD | Modest
Earth Power / Psyshock / Ice Beam / Rapid Spin

with sets such as these, you're bound to climb the NU ladder quickly. assault vest is a wonderful item that enhances special bulk, and all five of these drops have strong and versatile attacking movepools.
 

Mawile @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Atk / 200 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Baton Pass
- Play Rough
- Sucker Punch

Enough speed to outpace Seismitoads who run no or only 4 speed EVs, to allow Baton Passing out into a teammate who take on Mawile's weaknesses and appreciate its attack boosts like Virizion, Hariyama and Feraligatr.

She resists bug, flying, rock, normal, dark, fairy, psychic, poison and grass; all except psychic and grass are mostly physical attackers so Intimidate weakens them allowing her to have an easier time setting up.

Sucker Punch and Play Rough have such amazing coverage hitting everything except, ironically, Mawile while adding priority.

Mawile has such awesome moves to mess around with. Stockpile, Stealth Rock, Pain Split, Super Fang, Taunt, Iron Defense, Stealth Rock, Guard Split, Metal Burst, Magnet Rise.

Great attack coverage with Fire Blast, Knock Off, Power-Up Punch, Grass Knot, Iron Head, Sucker Punch, Fire Fang and many more; most of which are boosted by her other ability Sheer Force! :)
 
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can we trade claydol back for kabutops



Mawile @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Fire Blast
- Grass Knot
- Flash Cannon
- Baton Pass/Focus Blast

A full on special lure Mawile seems at the very least fun, since you beat most traditional counters (have fun eating a grass knot Quagsire/Seismitoad)
Too bad it doesn't get moonblast though(not even dazzling gleam smh)
 
feraligatr sure took a hit, but just wanted to throw out that it still has access to natural gift to fuck quagsire over. rindo berry is 80 bp, while liechi is 100 bp. both would also be useful for gatr in case the opponent doesnt have quagsire.

ehhh thinking about it that really is a bit of a 4mss for gatr, and an only average gimmick. still could potentially see a bit of use in case you want to lure out and kill quag for something like malamar i guess
Gatr doesn't get natural gift afaik
 
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Deej Dy

Verified Ladder Scurb 乁( ◔ ౪◔)ㄏ
While alone the new threats don't seem too overpowering, after experimenting with a Lorde Quag (Spc def), Xatu, Plume core + auto-usage Mega lix, you have an extremely hard core to crack. I added on Virizion for some overkill and so far the squad handles all top threats. (Typh, Gatr, Yama, Mushy, Virizion, Mega Aud, Mega camel, etc)
The last slot is pretty much a freebee, I put Ninetales out of preference. But adding an audino or other sponge for Choiced special attacks/ ice and this team is pretty overpowering. I'll deal with the meta for now, but I could imagine a virizion and quag suspect in the future.
Virizion is pretty self explanatory after usage. (Unpredictable movesets and items, speed, huge special bulk), but Lorde Quag also makes most non-grass coverage setup sweepers Unviable like musharna (without bp into grass user) ,Gatr ,Malamar,Curselix,gurDurr, Pawniard (give this guy a break ;/), among many more.

I'm not complaining or anything just bringing up some stuff that caught my attention, also Ninetales is about as good as you're gonna get cracking these cores, so I hope to see it A viability soon so I can rest easy at night.
 

Ares

Fool me...can't get fooled again
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So everyone is excited about the new drops (I am as well :D), but just posting to say that the Custap Berry is now available from Pokemon Global Link in the Pokedoll Grabber event thats going on right now. Hopefully this will be implemented on Showdown soon as there are gonna be a couple of fun Explosion sets I wanna try out >:D


Golem @ Custap Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Explosion
- Earthquake
- Rock Blast

Just postin the ol' Explosion Golem as an example of some of the stuff you can do with Custap Berry, for all the people who didn't get a chance to play Gen 5.
 

Quite Quiet

you cannot kill the innocent, you can only kill me
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All the changes are live in the actual ladder, but the teambuilder is a bit behind.

I'd also like to highlight a mon that is really fun to use and is pretty good still:


Rotom-Fan @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 240 Def / 20 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Air Slash
- Volt Switch
- Pain Split

Bulky Rotom-S deals with some of the stuff that dropped an most importantly can take any hit Virizion wants to throw at it and live. Air Slash kills all the things and WoW means Quagsire lose to air slash flinches + pain split (you can burn physical attackers too I guess). Speed outspeed max speed Torterra because speedcreep on everything.

tl;dr: Bulky Rotom-S does stuff, use it.
 
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