Metagame np: Stage 4 - Celebration (Feraligatr Banned)

[Aasgier]

Crustle doesn't stay alive if you want to set hazards with it and use it as a Malamar check, because it will take too much damage early on in the game that way.

 

[GaryTheGengar]

I will agree with you Typh post, because that thing is just obnoxious.

However, when it comes to Malamar, it's a bit of a juggle. Yea, it does have absolute garbage when it comes to typing and the lack of resistances it provides, but, so do a lot of mons, the problem with Malamar is the offensive side. That thing is an absolute monster, and it's not difficult at all to set up with. Not only that, it's coverage is actually pretty damn good despite only (usually) being held to 2 moves. It's just so damn easy to break through balanced, bulky offense, and stall teams (two of which are actually quite prominent right now) because of its ability to set up with ease, and ability to rest off any damage done or bothersome status. I mean, yea, it has its downsides, much like all Pokemon, but it is heavily outweighed by how effective of a 'mon it is in general.

malamar is pretty useless against offense, the most likely scenario is that you'll superpower some death fodder and then get nuked. you get 2hkod by most strong, neutral attacks, even with physical attackers switching into a +1 / +1 squid, as long as you have a decently strong special attacker or a super strong physical one in the back. Malamar also isn't the strongest thing in the world before it gets rolling. doesnt 2hko 252/0 camerupt with +1 / +2 superpower without rocks. +2 knock off also rarely ohkos max/max uxie even after switching into sr two times with no leftovers, something that would never happen, while you can comfortably switch into pretty much anything and twave, uturn out or set sr vs a +0 malamar.

Hide

+1 0 Atk Malamar Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Camerupt: 120-142 (34.8 - 41.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO, +2 0 Atk Malamar Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Camerupt: 160-189 (46.5 - 54.9%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO
+2 0 Atk Malamar Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Uxie: 234-276 (66.1 - 77.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Malamar Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Uxie: 116-140 (32.7 - 39.5%) -- 18.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery, 0 Atk Malamar Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Uxie: 80-96 (22.5 - 27.1%) -- 30% chance to 4HKO lmao

Any balanced team is gonna have something that they can sack or pivot with then be able to force malamar out etc camerupt, typhlosion, lo rott, lo liligant, audino, or even signal beam uxie, and thats not even going below the A+ ranking in the viability rankings, lol. The only case whatsoever that malamar has towards being a top tier pokemon, let alone a potential suspect is its ability to supposedly demolish stall. In actuality, the only stall that malamar shits on is a super poorly built one that is going to have tons of problems with almost anything. A stall team has many viable mons to choose from that check malamar in addition to being viable stall mons, as well as some niche mons that can fit on stall solely for the purpose of closing a gaping malamar hole. Some examples would be shit like soulgazer's weezing a few posts up, mega audino, granbull and togetic, or you could even go with a more semi-stall build and include one of malamar's best counters in scyther (a great mon itself with the removal of mega lix), or some of the aforementioned offensive mons.

 

[Swagodile]

http://www.smogon.com/stats/2015-03/ru-1630.txt

| 58 | Shiftry | 3.68957% | 4465 | 3.461% | 3488 | 3.381% |
| 59 | Hitmonchan | 2.82387% | 5421 | 4.203% | 4250 | 4.119% |
| 61 | Kabutops | 2.49023% | 4275 | 3.314% | 3291 | 3.190% |
| 63 | Pinsir | 2.25601% | 3318 | 2.572% | 2500 | 2.423% |

If this keeps up, we'll finally get Hitmonchan next shift, and Kabutops will come back, with a chance of Shifty returning as well.

Oh, and Pinsir.

 

[Cogito]

http://www.smogon.com/stats/2015-03/ru-1630.txt

| 58 | Shiftry | 3.68957% | 4465 | 3.461% | 3488 | 3.381% |
| 59 | Hitmonchan | 2.82387% | 5421 | 4.203% | 4250 | 4.119% |
| 61 | Kabutops | 2.49023% | 4275 | 3.314% | 3291 | 3.190% |
| 63 | Pinsir | 2.25601% | 3318 | 2.572% | 2500 | 2.423% |

If this keeps up, we'll finally get Hitmonchan next shift, and Kabutops will come back, with a chance of Shifty returning as well.

Oh, and Pinsir.

If I Pinsir does indeed drop to NU, I see it being suspected and then banned to BL3.

Moxie makes it extremely threatening with its wide movepool and decent bulk.

Hitmonchan coming would be a welcome addition because it would instantly be one of the best rapid spinners in the tier.

 

[Disjunction]

If I Pinsir does indeed drop to NU, I see it being suspected and then banned to BL3.

Moxie makes it extremely threatening with its wide movepool and decent bulk.

Hitmonchan coming would be a welcome addition because it would instantly be one of the best rapid spinners in the tier.

Pinsir suffers a lot from its poor typing and speed. It has the cool Swords Dance, nice coverage to go along with its Bug STAB with EQ and CC, a fair bit of physical bulk, and a lot of attack. However, its coverage options aren't good enough to the point where they are impossible to deal with and he's slow enough to where he speed ties with Mesprit (iirc idk I'm too lazy to look.) With no good priority options, it'll be easy to revenge him. Slower, more defensive teams might struggle with him more, but Quagsire, Seismitoad, Mega Audino, Granbull, Rotom-S, and others beat Pinsir pretty handily. I'd say he's a welcome addition to the tier to help beat back Malamar, but I doubt he would be very centralizing.

 

[Deej Dy]

Lets not forget that Pinsir was only B+ rank in BW2 when there were even less options available before we get ahead of ourselves with a ideas of suspects. I feel it may have a nice niche a Mold breaker+Rocks (Xatu) or Scarf Moxie user to clean up late-game. Perhaps a solid B+ rank. Also really looking forward to Hitmonchan if it drops like 99% of all NU users.

 

[QueenOfLuvdiscs]

If I Pinsir does indeed drop to NU, I see it being suspected and then banned to BL3.

Moxie makes it extremely threatening with its wide movepool and decent bulk.

Hitmonchan coming would be a welcome addition because it would instantly be one of the best rapid spinners in the tier.

Pinsir may be strong, but we have Scyther already which is faster and much stronger when you factor in Technician. Pinsir does have coverage options that look good on paper, however, a lot of slower teams currently have Mega Audino or Quag which check it or offensive orientated teams running faster pokes like Typh or Archeops or the aforementioned Scyther which can all revenge it pretty easily. It'll be good, but not suspect worthy it the slightest unless we lose all of them

I currently am undecided about how Hitmonchan will be in NU. Another spinner would be obviously be welcome, but I feel like Hariyama makes a better defensive fighting type and Sawk makes for a better offensive one. I guess only time will tell

 

[KnightK]

I don't think any of those likely drops would be too broken although I think most of them would be B+ or above easily. Honestly some of them look like a lot of fun and I am really happy to see Kabutops potentially returning again.

Mesprit would probably drop from S due to Shiftry and Pinsir (shiftry speed ties and pinsir outspeeds), archeops would not be leaving S anytime soon and scyther would quickly rise. Hazard removal will become even easier as we would get 2 more strong rapid spinners in Kabutops & Hitmonchan and, assuming it drops, probably one of the best defoggers in the tier in Shiftry. Also something to note if shiftry were to drop is that many psychics run Bug coverage anyways for Malamar. Regardless I am interested in how the drops play out.

 

[Jellicent's Garden]

Kabutops will be very welcome in the tier, good spinner that can also try to sweep with Swords Dance and can be a good offensive check to Typhlosion(just watch out for Hidden Power Grass and Focus Blasts though...).
Only thing that I'm a little salty about is Seismitoad leaving. :<

 

[boltsandbombers]

So, as I see it here's everything from the RU stats that will most likely affect us at the tri-monthly tier shift (which takes into account the typical 3.41% cutoff) happening in May.

| 43 | Camerupt | 5.554% |

Enjoy the camel for one more month, its almost guaranteed to leave at this rate.

| 46 | Seismitoad | 4.881% |

As stated above, losing Seismitoad will be a pretty significant change to the tier, considering it's such a reliable stealth rock setter and checks various threats and can easily be catered to your teams needs between its defensive and offensive sets.

| 48 | Quagsire | 4.503% |

RU players have started to realize how good Quagsire is, as it checks a plethora of the tier, including a good portion of the S through A ranks. Pretty unfortunate loss, as its a solid catch-all to so many setup mons in the tier right now not limited to Malamar, Scyther, Mawile (lacking grass knot), Samurott, etc. Losing both Water / Ground types if this usage keeps up o-o

| 58 | Shiftry | 3.690% |

If Shiftry's usage declines a bit more, having it back in the tier would welcome back one of early XYs biggest threats. Thankfully we have some more checks to it such as Mawile, but boasting STAB Knock Off, 2 boosting moves, a great STAB combo, it will be a massive force to be reckoned with if it comes back.

| 59 | Hitmonchan | 2.825% |

Woohoo. I'm just glad the RU players stopped using this thing so much, but I cannot see it being that great of a Fighting type or spinner in NU. As a spinner, it has no way to directly threaten Ghosts apart from a Toxic or Foresight on the switch I guess, while Claydol can just click Shadow Ball if they have a Ghost type, Sandslash has Knock Off, and Cyro can push past them pretty easily with repeated Ice Beams / Freeze Dry's. As a special tank it obviously faces massive competition from Hariyama which has greater mixed bulk and a better ability. As an offensive Fighting type, its overshadowed by Sawk which has a significantly superior movepool and other qualities.

| 61 | Kabutops | 2.491% |
:D :D :D

In all seriousness I'm super happy about this one, considering it was easily one of the best spinners in the tier and one of my favorite offensive mons to use thanks to its great STAB combo and relative versatility. Rain will have one of its biggest key players back to abuse, and it will be scary. *cough* HJAD *cough*

| 63 | Pinsir | 2.257% |

Not going to deny that Pinsir will be a threat, but surely won't be broken. With Quag leaving it probably wont need Mold Breaker, and it can probably snowball after a moxie boost or two. And yeah, it has great coverage between its STAB X-Scissor and some combination of Close Combat, Earthquake, Stone Edge, or something else. But there are a plethora of Pokemon in the tier that can easily switch in or revenge kill, such as Archeops, Typhlosion, Scyther, Rhydon, etc.

 

[Liarliarpantsonfire]

Doesn't Swords Dance Pinsir beat Quagsire because of Mold Breaker?...

+2 252 Atk Mold Breaker Pinsir X-Scissor vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 204-241 (51.7 - 61.1%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Of course you sacrifice Moxie, but eh. I liked using Pinsir as a SashLead with Mold Breaker SR. Either guaranteed SR or a guaranteed kill. Close Combat + Stone Edge + Knock Off is coverage that's hard to play around. I even ran Quick Attack once just to troll other SashLeads. Scarf Moxie is not bad either, definitely threatening once it gets rolling.

Hitmonchan doesn't seem too good in NU. Loses to Garbodor, Seismitoad, Archeops... At least it reliably 2HKO's Ghosts like Haunter, Rotom and Mismagius with LO Iron Fist Ice Punch. And if it drops together with Kabutops then this thing is dropping straight to the low B ranks imo.

 

[Talpr0ne]

If Quagsire were to leave while Pinsir dropped I would rather run Hyper Cutter to keep up against defensive Mawile and Granbull tbh.

 

[Teddeh]

There was discussion before in the NU room about hitmonchan saying that it's bulk up set is outclassed by gudurr's ability to hit ghost types and is in general a pretty outclassed fighting mon in this tier, being that its only niche is rapid spin :x Pinsir seems really cool though since I never used it in BW. I'm gonna miss camel since I finally found out how to use it effectively (lol) and toad aswell if kabu drops again. Shiftry would make NU really cool now as it would mean there are several ways of hazard removal leaving the tier so hazard stack would take a small beating. Looking forward to the shifts tbh n_n

 

[QueenOfLuvdiscs]

If we lose Camel, Seis and Quag welcome to Klinklang: The tier

 

[Punchshroom]

If I Pinsir does indeed drop to NU, I see it being suspected and then banned to BL3. Moxie makes it extremely threatening with its wide movepool and decent bulk.

Hitmonchan coming would be a welcome addition because it would instantly be one of the best rapid spinners in the tier.

I sense that both of these predictions couldn't be farther from the truth, but if I'm gonna discuss the potential shifts I might as well talk about them in one go.

Pinsir would find its home in NU again after soaring to XY stardom from BW NU. I for one would welcome the addition of a viable Bug-type that doesn't require heavy duty hazard removal up its ass 24/7, which by extension make it a more splashable Malamar check if people get desperate for one. As a standalone, Pinsir still has its respectable coverage on hand and has three decent abilities that can aid it offensively, but other than that not too much has changed for Pinsir itself. While it has a newfound role as an 'easier Malamar check', the speed tier has gone up considerably from BW NU, and Pinsir's only average 85 Speed is almost certainly to show here in conjunction to its poor defensive typing (namely an SR weaknes as opposed to a resistance like the similarly fast Sawk), which would certainly impede its abilities.

Hitmonchan would be so situational that it would be hard to justify using very often. For one, it is fundamentally outclassed by pretty much every single Fighting-type in the tier (even Primeape!), making it a 'watered down Fighting-type' with Rapid Spin as the sole consolation. That is until you realize that Hitmonchan does a pretty bad job of combating the spinblockers in the first place as it lacks the coverage moves to strike them with (even Claydol, a fellow RU laughingstock, has Shadow Ball), with only Foresight as its lone hope of even functioning properly; Foresight + Rapid Spin also already gimps on its possible remaining moveslots, leaving it with essentially only one moveslot for variation, which makes it woefully predictable and relatively under-equipped to handle much of the tier. Overall, Hitmonchan not only offers little over other Fighting-types, but still manages to compete with other spinners which boast their own distinct advantages while not being outclassed / eclipsed by other Pokemon that share their typing. Hitmonchan is likely to join Sandslash as the 'worse of the better spinners', if I coined that term correctly.

We've pretty much seen Kabutops's impact on the tier already, so there feels like there is less need for discussion. With that said, the greater influx of Normal-types, Flying-types, and Fire-types are certainly a boon for Kabutops, as it provides offensive teams a solid option to check them via Weak Armor and Aqua Jet respectively. Not to mention Rain's top spinner as well as physical sweeper would be back, and rip Armaldo in that case :/

Now Shiftry is probably the most notable of the lot, and we haven't seen it since early XY so its presence in ORAS NU would certainly differ much more from that with Kabutops. That said, Shiftry has always proved itself to be quite fearsome, and my thoughts on it haven't changed. While having the best offensive Defogger back in the tier is certainly welcome, its offensive potential has always been pretty ridiculous. The standard Defog set alone is set for many opponents in the meta: Knock Off for solid damage and item removal, Leaf Storm to nuke physically bulky threats and/or Fighting resists, and Sucker Punch to keep many offensive threats at bay. That's not even including its other options, such as Swords Dance or a Sun sweeping Chlorophyll set, all of which have devastating power and pose a threat to offense. Not to mention that one of its best offensive checks, Virizion (which was present in the meta where Shiftry once resided), has remained in RU this time around. Should Shiftry return, it will shake up the tier much more than it has in the past.

The potential loss of Camerupt and Seismitoad would be terrific news for Electric-types, Steel-types, and to a lesser extent, Fire-types. Quagsire's potential departure is also great news for physical setup sweepers, or Calm Mind users with Psyshock at least, and would be a significant blow to defensively inclined teams in NU.

 

[Raseri]

new thread incoming~