Honestly surprised at Flutter but sure yeah I'll take it. Super nice to no longer have to build around Bozo checks so I appreciate that greatly
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Metagame np: SV DOU Stage 0: Start Over | Flutter Mane, Tatsugiri Quickbanned
- Thread starter Actuarily
- Start date
- Status
Right you are! If this is implemented before the round ends, and before doubles ubers exists as a challengable format, you can just use the following challenge code. Just open up a dialogue with the person you want to challenge, and paste this code and hit enter:There is no doubles ubers format
/challenge gen9doublesou @@@ +Tatsugiri, +Flutter Mane
There is no doubles ubers format
you can easily get around this with a custom game, using the following command:There is no doubles ubers format
/challenge gen9doublesou @@@ +Flutter Mane, +Tatsugiri
edit: i didnt refresh before testing this out to figure out the exact command for gen 9 doubles format because doublesOU defaulted to gen 8 still lol xD
Man the commander combo is so bs lmao. The intended drawback was that it would be 2v1 but this is easily cheeseable with stuff like toxic orb endure tatsugiri + explosion drifblim. Then you could send out flamigo and suddenly you'd have 2 double omniboosted mons. Ofc there existed counters like opportunist mirror herb espathra but that was useless if you didn't send out espathra at the correct time. Im happy its gone ripbozo
Yeah that really just feels like cheating. That's gotta be an oversight from the devs, not some niche fun strat. It was incredibly cringe
I know it's only been a day, but how are you guys finding the post Commander and Flutter Mane meta? I haven't played much DOU (thank you exam season), but I'm not high ladder so my opinion doesn't really matter anyways. Those few matches where Flutter Mane was somehow glitched into DUU were pretty not fun, so I want to kind of hear about how DOU is now that it's gone.
Also, how are you guys finding that fiery fish? IMO, from a theoretical stand point, it seemed more broken as it also enables its allies with its ability to reduce spdef. Is it frustrating to deal with at high ladder? Or are people finding ways around it?
Also, how are you guys finding that fiery fish? IMO, from a theoretical stand point, it seemed more broken as it also enables its allies with its ability to reduce spdef. Is it frustrating to deal with at high ladder? Or are people finding ways around it?
Flutter Mane is not a broken unbeatable killing machine and the vote containing no comments on her besides ban/no ban and coming down to just one vote is a bit much. I have listed ample ways to deal with her in my pastebin, including calcs for four different tanks as well as different ways for a few team types to beat her and those are just the ways I've dealt with her, this doesn't include every idea and I'm sure others have their own ways
Flutter Mane does not deserve to be quick banned by any means and she at the very least deserved a suspect test that I am positive she would pass now that Dondozo has been banned. Dondozo's presence strained teams to the extreme because of how much you had to stack to secure the W, with him out of the picture teams have far more breathing room and regular status moves like TWave can be seen as good again since they're useless vs Dondozo. Every time I've faced Flutter Mane I did not fear her as a broken force that ripped my team apart, I often used Grimmsnarl to deal with her just to either TWave her or click Parting Shot. The methods I've used to beat her are not methods that strain my entire team or methods I have to stack on top of each other just to get her specifically, they help against a plethora of Pokemon. Please reconsider this narrow vote on her, she is strong but not broken
https://pastebin.com/ykDgb2JF
Flutter Mane does not deserve to be quick banned by any means and she at the very least deserved a suspect test that I am positive she would pass now that Dondozo has been banned. Dondozo's presence strained teams to the extreme because of how much you had to stack to secure the W, with him out of the picture teams have far more breathing room and regular status moves like TWave can be seen as good again since they're useless vs Dondozo. Every time I've faced Flutter Mane I did not fear her as a broken force that ripped my team apart, I often used Grimmsnarl to deal with her just to either TWave her or click Parting Shot. The methods I've used to beat her are not methods that strain my entire team or methods I have to stack on top of each other just to get her specifically, they help against a plethora of Pokemon. Please reconsider this narrow vote on her, she is strong but not broken
https://pastebin.com/ykDgb2JF
I would also like to refer to the post by Actuarily about the weaknesses of different sets she can run whether it's Timid/Modest Booster or Specs/LO. I appreciate your comments on her and hope that you like the information I have provided. I only listed a few damage calcs to show some of my favorite support Pokemon vs her, I don't have all the calcs for the Mons I use to fight her on hand
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Z Strats
Banned deucer.
Midnight rambling here.
I do think that there should be more posts/transparency from council members for sure, but flutter was definitely busted in my eyes, particularly the bulky flutter sets that invest in HP and def evs that you laughed at in your pastebin despite it being one of the most common/best sets in tours. Yes flutter isn't gonna be able to be led and just auto win the game, that would make it one of the most broken mons of all time, but its insane speed and spA allows it to be a super restrictive offensive Mon that can either break early or clean late insanely well while being incredibly hard to switch into. Since the speed and spA stat is so good you're allowed to invest in bulk which lets you actually live hits (the most recent dwcop game we see a flutter live heavy slam from iron hands). Apart from ignoring the best set your calcs also don't really account for proto boosts, being paired with chi-yu, or the fact that flutters can tera a decent chunk of the time too.
All of my calcs are Proto boosts, they just don't show up on the calc and if it's Chi-Yu that boosts every special attacker to hell then that's not FM's fault. Tera typing is another ordeal, still doesn't stop her from being frail and if she's throwing her EVs into bulk then she can't keep her damage up forever. Dumping Tera into her also isn't always advisable seeing as how many balance/priority Mons can dumpster her health or status her
A suspect on her rather than a quick ban with little commentary is more appropriate. The game has been out for like a month. I do often consider her annoying and she does attack offense very well but since day 1 I've built my teams to have outs vs her and other Mons like her so I don't have the same immediately broken feeling about her. If she stays banned I get it but I don't think there's been enough time especially considering how hellish Dondozo made the game
On a pro ban note, I do know that this eases the tension of offense teams by quite a bit and that's not something I'm averse to. A ban does help unscramble speed tiers a bit but I still believe in speed control being a huge thorn in her side considering how frail she is. If we have another special attacker go up for a quick ban or suspect and Chi-Yu is mentioned as making said special attacker too strong then it'd be time to look at Chi-Yu instead and to give Flutter Mane some credit about dealing with her without Beads of Ruin active
After lifting, letting my inebriation settle down from my night off, and some looks at my team builder I do think that the meta is a lot more lax towards offense with Flutter Man gone. I still think there are plenty of ways to deal with her but at the end of the day I think it's that dual STAB that pushes her into being too much. The team I use can deal with her and she isn't hard to kill but she does muscle out more than a few Mons just from team preview. I think she can be fine in the tier but if I'm just discussing fun then yes I believe the tier is more fun without her as it eases up a good bit with her dual STAB being gone. I believe a suspect should've taken place and that she can be reintroduced later
I wanna say again delete Sand Veil, Snow Cloak, and Bright Powder immediately. Uncompetitive luck based abilities/items don't belong here and if they banned them in singles they should be banned here too. Throw in King's Rock while you're at it
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How has Pincurchin been for you guys? Is it worth it to have Pin on your team to boost your future paradox Pokemon? I haven't explored it much but am considering it.
Also, do we have an idea of what Pokemon might become available thanks to Pokemon Home?
Also, do we have an idea of what Pokemon might become available thanks to Pokemon Home?
Pincurchin hasn't really been used at all, the boosts of electric terrain to paradox future mons like Iron Bundle or Iron Hands are just not enough to justify using Pincurchin. It doesn't really do enough damage in Electric Terrain and it really just becomes a dead weight pokemon most of the time (especially hurts since it lost Rising Voltage this generation). There may be some potential use for it, but in general I haven't seen anything spectacular from it
Yeah the huge dif between Pincurchin and Torkoal is the coverage and defense Torkoal has as well as his synergy with some Protosynthesis Mons. The Iron series work well enough on their own to not need Pincurchin around. When the greatest Electric type of all type and overall best Mon ever Tapu Koko comes back it'll be a different story
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What do you guys think of Maushould and Annihilape duo? Rage fist gets stronger if you keep getting hit, so, hear me out! Annihilape Tera Rock and Punching gloves + Maushould Friend Guard Wide Lens and Population Bomb. We will have a nuclear monkey with a very decent bulky, great right?
but i don't know what to run with it. So yeah, i need help. Also, Rage fist have a cap. It can't go past 385 BP! Does Beat up go better than Population bomb?
Here a replay about the duo. I just don't know anyone else to use with them!
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesou-1747566410
I don't know if i can send pics and links like that but there you are, in case of anything i can edit it.
Hope my english is okay to understand.
Edit: Fairy Tera type Annihilape with Beat up seems betters. After all it can only go up 6 hits.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesou-1747703405
Another replay!
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Yeah Annihilape is quite good with or without Maushold support. You can just run Beat Up though since 6 hits is already enough to nearly max out Rage Fist's cap (you hit 350 bp which is plenty) and you don't have to run a suboptimal tera like Rock to resist Maushold's signature STAB move. Generally Annihilape wants to invest fully in its bulk EVs (mainly HP and SpD) and run Drain Punch, Rage Fist, Bulk Up and either Protect or Substitute.
If you want ideas on teams that work well with Annihilape I suggest combing through DWCOP replays: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/doubles-world-cup-iii-round-1-pools.3711933/
A good way to describe Annihilape is it's like Flutter Mane but for different reasons. The way Rage Fist works meant that it encourages defensive support such as Screens and Intimidate, with the best counterplay being defensive as well, like using Will-o-wisp on Annihilape or screens as the opponent wants slowly avoid hitting it as much as possible, not helping matters is its high bulk means that only a certain few are able to OHKO it, and that's not taking screens and terastallization into account.
Annihilape also packs the perfect Ghost & Fighting STAB coverage, allowing Annihilape to hit all at least neutrally with the exception of Hisuian Zoroark that's yet to be released. Additionally, its abilities can invalidate certain counterplay as well, with Vital Spirit preventing it from being asleep by Spore or Defiant to discourage stats reduction from Intimidate or Parting Shot. The existence of Annihilape usually will shape the battle into a slog on who can slowly whittle it down or get annihilate by its Rage Fist, and needlessly to say, I am not a big fan of it. Definitely should be suspect tested first before Chi-Yu mainly because I found how it more impactful in battles.
The next Pokemon everyone's been talking about is Chi-Yu thanks to its Bead of ruins that enables the goldfish to hit harder and having fantastic STAB coverage in Fire & Dark, especially with Specs or Nasty Plot. However, Chi-Yu is not without weaknesses or checks, Tyranitar happens to be one of the best counters to Chi-Yu as it resists both Fire and Dark as well as overriding sun from Torkoal. It's also vulnerable to priority moves such as Jet Punch and Extreme Speed with a notable Stealth Rock weakness. While 100 speed is good, there are numerous Pokemon that's able to outspeed it such as Garchomp, Roaring Moon, and Iron Bundle that either heavily dent Chi-Yu with their attack or set up Tailwind. With all of that being said, a suspect test on Chi-Yu would be a good idea.
Terastallization
With OU suspect testing the newest battle mechanic in town, Terastallization, it would be the appropriate time to discuss whether or not Terastallization should be looked upon in Doubles, Unlike Dynamax which I am evidently not a huge fan of fan due how dynamic it shakes the battle in a negative way, I think Terastallization is fine for now. While there are certain advantages from Terastallizing such as gaining power boost or resistance/immunity to certain elements such as being poisoned or Spore, it can be scouted with Protect or Fake Out as well as not gaining any immunity like being phazed or Encored, unlike Dynamax. It's definitely the first thing that needs to be taken into consideration when building a team to avoid not having enough answers for a certain type, but not to overbearing levels. And I think even with Terastallization banned from Doubles, Pokemon that got banned during the time it's allowed are still going to be overwhelming with the possible exception of Dodonzo.
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Question: Why is it that Tatsugiri and not commander is banned? I only did a little research, so I could be wrong, but Tatsugiri has some use as a spinner/frail sweeper, so why can't it run water absorb?
Tiering Policy which is beyond the control of the DOU council forbids us from banning the Ability of a pokemon unless more than one pokemon has that ability, while I disagree with it myself, only tatsugiri has commander, so tatsugiri got banned
Arctic edit: you can view the Policy Review thread on the topic here.
fangame edit:
I see where the council is coming from, with trying to keep policy consistent, but this still seems stupid. Obviously commander is the problem, not tatsu, so ban commander. I very much agree with Cruchman's post in the tread linked by Arctic.
(I really like tatsu so that's why I'm so passionate)
(I really like tatsu so that's why I'm so passionate)
Hey everyone! I want to give an update on what Council's thoughts are at this time and what the plan is moving forwards. We're currently looking to start our first suspect test of SV this Friday, read below for more details and feel free to share your thoughts!
The Ghosts ofChristmas DOU Past and Present
Flutter Mane quickly established itself as the single most powerful Pokemon in the format, and a talking point for potential action soon after release. Ghost / Fairy is an incredibly typing, combining two great offensive types for practically perfect coverage between its STABs. Defensively, it touts only two weaknesses, one of which is covered by its STABs, and has a valuable immunity to Normal, which typically would be important for Fake Out immunity, though in this meta is more notable for immunity to Dragonite's Extreme Speed, a move otherwise capable of checking fast Pokemon such as Flutter. Boasting base 135 Special Attack and Speed, Flutter Mane is a fantastic offensive Pokemon, capable of outspeeding and threatening almost every Pokemon with massive damage, and has Dazzling Gleam offering a path to spread that damage across both foes. Protosynthesis when combined with Booster Energy or Torkoal's Drought can boost one of those stats even higher, with Tera Fairy and Chi-Yu's ability Beads of Ruin increasing Flutter's damage output even further. The latter pairs incredibly well with Flutter Mane, with the two being a clear 1st and 2nd in DWCOP pools usage, forming the tier's foremost offensive combination. Already possessing naturally high Special Defense, later in Flutter's tenure we also seen the rise of bulkier sets, patching up its frailer physical side while maintaining its offensive presence due to the aforementioned reasons. Earlier this month, Flutter Mane was banned by a majority Council vote from the tier.
Annihilape had a slower start, being identified early on due to its uniquely powerful move Rage Fist, though seeing limited initial use compared to many other of the new Pokemon available. Being a Fighting / Ghost with a signature Ghost-type STAB may draw comparisons to Marshadow, but Annihilape actually functions quite differently from the banned Pokemon. Despite having perfect STAB coverage, Annihilape usually opts for a more defensive set, complimenting its natural bulk with investment in Special Defense and Bulk Up covering the physical side. This leaves the ape quite tanky, even moreso if you opt for screens support, with Drain Punch providing recovery on top. It's not rare that a faster Pokemon will chunk a boosted Annihilape, for it to knock out the attacker with Drain Punch and immediately heal back the damage taken as a result. Another perk of being bulky is that ape will take more hits, racking up the power of Rage Fist even without Bulk Up boosts, and so making up for the lack of investment in Attack. Vital Spirit provides immunity to Amoonguss' Spore, while Clear Smog and Haze cannot remove Rage Fist's boosts (with the former even boosting it), meaning traditional counters to setup are not completely effective. The ability to use a defensive Tera type further aids Annihilape, letting it survive even more hits and retaliate with a boosted Rage Fist or Drain Punch. Despite seeing action being called for from before the start of DWCOP, Annihilape received no ban votes in the following Council vote and no further action has been taken yet. In DWCOP Pools, Annihilape came only 12th in usage, but brags an impressive >60% winrate, and is becoming even better with the Flutter Mane ban in effect, one Pokemon that was capable of overpowering it.
The main agreement within the Council is that Annihilape should be suspected in the near future. However, there is another prospect currently on the table in a possible Flutter Mane suspect. The Flutter quickban was not a unanimous vote, reflecting sentiment in the wider community which was also not completely unanimous on it either, indicating that having a closer look at it could be worthwhile. Given that Flutter was only recently banned and is still fresh in people's minds, and that if it were to be freed then ape would become more manageable, then it makes sense that if a Flutter suspect is to take place, it should come first. Regardless of the result of the Flutter suspect, this also gives ape some more time to run its course, and see whether counterplay develops or if its upwards trajectory continues unhindered. Given the choice between the two Pokemon, the Council voted 5-2 in favour of a Flutter Mane suspect starting this Friday (with an Annihilape suspect highly likely to follow).
The Ghosts(?) of DOU Yet to Come
Beyond the two aforementioned Pokemon, nothing is lined up currently. In terms of Pokemon which are "on the radar" so to speak, you could point to Chi-Yu and Dragonite as a couple of examples. Chi-Yu has the powerful Beads of Ruin ability and is best known for its partnership with Flutter Mane, but is also a strong special attacker in its own right, with some arguing that the fish was in fact the problem with the duo, or irrespectively that Chi-Yu will wreak havoc with other strong special attackers too. With Special Attack equalling Flutter's, and access to its own spread move in Heat Wave, Chi-Yu is a fearsome offensive threat even standalone. Dragonite's claim to fame is access to the powerful priority move Extreme Speed, which can now be boosted by Tera Normal and by Chien-Pao's ability Sword of Ruin to outrageous levels. Due to its raw strength and ability to completely disregard speed tiers because of priority, with Amoonguss even being unable to redirect it with Rage Powder, Dragonite can be difficult to deal with outside of Ghost-types, which as you may have noticed from above are in decreasing supply. Terastallization is this generation's new mechanic, once per battle allowing any Pokemon to change to a new type, gaining an offensive boost on attacks of the same type, and defensive utility from the new set of weaknesses and resistances the type brings. Some notable examples include Flutter Mane using Tera Fairy to make Dazzling Gleam even stronger on top of the regular STAB boost, Dragonite using Tera Normal to gain STAB on Extreme Speed, and Amoonguss using Tera Water to flip the type chart and now resist its primary weakness in Fire, while replacing its weaknesses with two new ones which are both resisted by its regular typing.
Chi-Yu, Dragonite, and Terastallization are far from set in stone as future suspect targets though, nothing outside of the two Ghosts is screaming for a suspect, and our position is largely to wait and see how the meta develops, especially from any changes as a result of action on Flutter Mane and Annihilape. These are just a couple of examples of Pokemon which have the potential to be a problem in the future, it could also be something else like Ting-Lu or Iron Bundle, or it could be that nothing else warrants action. Terastallization is currently being looked at in singles, but our opinions on it are mostly positive and there are no plans to visit it in the foreseeable future, though as with the Pokemon mentioned that is subject to change.
The Ghosts of
Flutter Mane quickly established itself as the single most powerful Pokemon in the format, and a talking point for potential action soon after release. Ghost / Fairy is an incredibly typing, combining two great offensive types for practically perfect coverage between its STABs. Defensively, it touts only two weaknesses, one of which is covered by its STABs, and has a valuable immunity to Normal, which typically would be important for Fake Out immunity, though in this meta is more notable for immunity to Dragonite's Extreme Speed, a move otherwise capable of checking fast Pokemon such as Flutter. Boasting base 135 Special Attack and Speed, Flutter Mane is a fantastic offensive Pokemon, capable of outspeeding and threatening almost every Pokemon with massive damage, and has Dazzling Gleam offering a path to spread that damage across both foes. Protosynthesis when combined with Booster Energy or Torkoal's Drought can boost one of those stats even higher, with Tera Fairy and Chi-Yu's ability Beads of Ruin increasing Flutter's damage output even further. The latter pairs incredibly well with Flutter Mane, with the two being a clear 1st and 2nd in DWCOP pools usage, forming the tier's foremost offensive combination. Already possessing naturally high Special Defense, later in Flutter's tenure we also seen the rise of bulkier sets, patching up its frailer physical side while maintaining its offensive presence due to the aforementioned reasons. Earlier this month, Flutter Mane was banned by a majority Council vote from the tier.
Annihilape had a slower start, being identified early on due to its uniquely powerful move Rage Fist, though seeing limited initial use compared to many other of the new Pokemon available. Being a Fighting / Ghost with a signature Ghost-type STAB may draw comparisons to Marshadow, but Annihilape actually functions quite differently from the banned Pokemon. Despite having perfect STAB coverage, Annihilape usually opts for a more defensive set, complimenting its natural bulk with investment in Special Defense and Bulk Up covering the physical side. This leaves the ape quite tanky, even moreso if you opt for screens support, with Drain Punch providing recovery on top. It's not rare that a faster Pokemon will chunk a boosted Annihilape, for it to knock out the attacker with Drain Punch and immediately heal back the damage taken as a result. Another perk of being bulky is that ape will take more hits, racking up the power of Rage Fist even without Bulk Up boosts, and so making up for the lack of investment in Attack. Vital Spirit provides immunity to Amoonguss' Spore, while Clear Smog and Haze cannot remove Rage Fist's boosts (with the former even boosting it), meaning traditional counters to setup are not completely effective. The ability to use a defensive Tera type further aids Annihilape, letting it survive even more hits and retaliate with a boosted Rage Fist or Drain Punch. Despite seeing action being called for from before the start of DWCOP, Annihilape received no ban votes in the following Council vote and no further action has been taken yet. In DWCOP Pools, Annihilape came only 12th in usage, but brags an impressive >60% winrate, and is becoming even better with the Flutter Mane ban in effect, one Pokemon that was capable of overpowering it.
The main agreement within the Council is that Annihilape should be suspected in the near future. However, there is another prospect currently on the table in a possible Flutter Mane suspect. The Flutter quickban was not a unanimous vote, reflecting sentiment in the wider community which was also not completely unanimous on it either, indicating that having a closer look at it could be worthwhile. Given that Flutter was only recently banned and is still fresh in people's minds, and that if it were to be freed then ape would become more manageable, then it makes sense that if a Flutter suspect is to take place, it should come first. Regardless of the result of the Flutter suspect, this also gives ape some more time to run its course, and see whether counterplay develops or if its upwards trajectory continues unhindered. Given the choice between the two Pokemon, the Council voted 5-2 in favour of a Flutter Mane suspect starting this Friday (with an Annihilape suspect highly likely to follow).
The Ghosts(?) of DOU Yet to Come
Beyond the two aforementioned Pokemon, nothing is lined up currently. In terms of Pokemon which are "on the radar" so to speak, you could point to Chi-Yu and Dragonite as a couple of examples. Chi-Yu has the powerful Beads of Ruin ability and is best known for its partnership with Flutter Mane, but is also a strong special attacker in its own right, with some arguing that the fish was in fact the problem with the duo, or irrespectively that Chi-Yu will wreak havoc with other strong special attackers too. With Special Attack equalling Flutter's, and access to its own spread move in Heat Wave, Chi-Yu is a fearsome offensive threat even standalone. Dragonite's claim to fame is access to the powerful priority move Extreme Speed, which can now be boosted by Tera Normal and by Chien-Pao's ability Sword of Ruin to outrageous levels. Due to its raw strength and ability to completely disregard speed tiers because of priority, with Amoonguss even being unable to redirect it with Rage Powder, Dragonite can be difficult to deal with outside of Ghost-types, which as you may have noticed from above are in decreasing supply. Terastallization is this generation's new mechanic, once per battle allowing any Pokemon to change to a new type, gaining an offensive boost on attacks of the same type, and defensive utility from the new set of weaknesses and resistances the type brings. Some notable examples include Flutter Mane using Tera Fairy to make Dazzling Gleam even stronger on top of the regular STAB boost, Dragonite using Tera Normal to gain STAB on Extreme Speed, and Amoonguss using Tera Water to flip the type chart and now resist its primary weakness in Fire, while replacing its weaknesses with two new ones which are both resisted by its regular typing.
Chi-Yu, Dragonite, and Terastallization are far from set in stone as future suspect targets though, nothing outside of the two Ghosts is screaming for a suspect, and our position is largely to wait and see how the meta develops, especially from any changes as a result of action on Flutter Mane and Annihilape. These are just a couple of examples of Pokemon which have the potential to be a problem in the future, it could also be something else like Ting-Lu or Iron Bundle, or it could be that nothing else warrants action. Terastallization is currently being looked at in singles, but our opinions on it are mostly positive and there are no plans to visit it in the foreseeable future, though as with the Pokemon mentioned that is subject to change.
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Thanks for the update, Yoda! I want to give my quick, 1200-player perspective (that is, take it with a Nacli).
I'm happy that we're getting a chance to have our say about Flutter Mane, as I was a little surprised that it got QB'd. Of course, a monstrous 135 spatk and speed are extremely hard to deal with, but not impossible. With tech like weather speed boosts, tailwind, and TR more usable in doubles, it isn't super hard to get around FM's speed. If you have a decent physical attacker in any of these strats, it can be quite easy to take care of. Of course, you do need to worry about opposing TW, but players better than I can probably will. TLDR FM imo wasn't really qb worthy but is still suspect worthy.
I think that Chi-Yu is the biggest problem rn. Like with FM, it isn't as QB worthy, but it is still very strong, especially in how its ability enables others, not just itself. I've mostly focused on DUU (but not completely), so I don't know who it's been pairing with the most recently, but a new clear partner will emerge. Having a Base spatk equal to FM and a spread move in heat wave all ends up being broken in my eyes. I really want to see a suspect for it asap, but that's just me.
I'm still having fun with tera. Don't really have thoughts about it being broken or not.
I want to end by again asking for the DUU forum to come online or help directing me to it if I somehow missed it completely.
Thank you and enjoy laddering. :)
I'm happy that we're getting a chance to have our say about Flutter Mane, as I was a little surprised that it got QB'd. Of course, a monstrous 135 spatk and speed are extremely hard to deal with, but not impossible. With tech like weather speed boosts, tailwind, and TR more usable in doubles, it isn't super hard to get around FM's speed. If you have a decent physical attacker in any of these strats, it can be quite easy to take care of. Of course, you do need to worry about opposing TW, but players better than I can probably will. TLDR FM imo wasn't really qb worthy but is still suspect worthy.
I think that Chi-Yu is the biggest problem rn. Like with FM, it isn't as QB worthy, but it is still very strong, especially in how its ability enables others, not just itself. I've mostly focused on DUU (but not completely), so I don't know who it's been pairing with the most recently, but a new clear partner will emerge. Having a Base spatk equal to FM and a spread move in heat wave all ends up being broken in my eyes. I really want to see a suspect for it asap, but that's just me.
I'm still having fun with tera. Don't really have thoughts about it being broken or not.
I want to end by again asking for the DUU forum to come online or help directing me to it if I somehow missed it completely.
Thank you and enjoy laddering. :)
duu has nothing yet, format about to shift in five days
Wait, does this mean doubles usually waits for a meta to enter in beta before creating a forum? Why the difference from SUU?
Good questions.
So Doubles UU does not get its own forum, similar to last generation it has a post, which you can find here.
Doubles UU does have to wait a bit, since the tier is created based off of usage in Doubles OU, so first there must be usage in Doubles OU for a month to establish which Pokémon are DUU.
The thread has been created, and once we have the usage statistics for December (and have the corresponding Pokémon rises and drops) the thread will be updated after Jan 1st to include the usual resources. If you have any thoughts on the meta, feel free to post them there so we can begin a discussion.
id like a tier list sharing thread but for now, il slap it here
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