Announcement np: SV OU Suspect Process, Round 15 - Higher Ground [SEE POST 2 FOR NEW SUSPECT INFO]

[Lily]

Hello everyone, the OU tiering council has decided to test Gliscor!

In fitting with the rule of threes, Gliscor is the third Pokemon to get a second SV OU suspect test. Unlike Kyurem, which evaded a ban the first time and then sorta-kinda-maybe-barely evaded it a second time, Gliscor was removed from the tier during the Teal Mask DLC, largely off the strength of its Spikes sets. Nowadays, things are different; while Spikes is far from a thing of the past, Gliscor's Swords Dance sets have proven themselves to be extremely formidable, aided by its rainbow of Tera types and a few different coverage options. Much like Dragonite, Gliscor has decided STAB is a social construct and frequently finds itself branching out into Facade + Knock Off sets, while its typical Earthquake + Facade combination is still just as lethal against teams lacking an Air Balloon Gholdengo or a steel bird. Worse yet is Gliscor's bulk and EV customisation letting it pull off a lot more than it would seem; it can run extremely bulky sets that can tank hits from strong special attackers like Raging Bolt, be impenetrable on the physical side in the face of Kingambit and Iron Defense Zamazenta, or just avoid taking hits altogether by outrunning a ton of the unboosted metagame, getting the jump on Raging Bolt, Great Tusk, and Landorus-T with a Jolly nature.

It isn't a perfect world for Gliscor, of course; while near immunity to hazard damage is a possibility thanks to its incredible base typing and Poison Heal, it's that same typing that puts Gliscor into awkward situations against attackers like Ogerpon-W, Kyurem, and Samurott-H. Gliscor can - and often does! - get past these with Tera, but that comes at a price; Gliscor is now vulnerable to the Spikes it loves to abuse, and suddenly that impenetrable bulk doesn't seem so tough to beat. Even with Tera aside, there are plenty of nuclear special attackers that can prey on Gliscor's middling special bulk even when fully invested; Iron Valiant, Choice Specs Raging Bolt, Gholdengo, and Dragapult all cause the bat major issues, to say nothing of Pokemon that can fit Ice coverage onto sets like Deoxys-S and Assault Vest Galarian Slowking. Using Gliscor defensively can also be a challenge due to its loss of Roost; while there are quite a few foes that can't put much damage into it at all such as Landorus-T and non-Ice Hammer Tinkaton, switching into things it'd really like to be able to check like Iron Moth can often result in Gliscor scrambling for turns to heal itself up. This commonly results in Gliscor being paired with other Ground-types - usually Ting-Lu - and thus limiting the structures it can fit on.

All of this mostly applies to the Swords Dance sets, though. Spikes Gliscor is still alive and kicking, and with it comes a whole different host of counterplay. While it's not as immediately dangerous as a boosted Facade, Gliscor's Toxic can be a slow burn for anything that can't threaten it quickly enough like Great Tusk, Iron Valiant, Cinderace, Moltres, and Zapdos. Gliscor is also a Spiker that easily outlasts essentially all forms of hazard removal thanks to its ability to directly threaten the elephant duo of Great Tusk and Iron Treads, while letting its partner in crime Gholdengo handle rogue Corviknights. This set can be suffocating for teams that don't pack enough of an explosive punch to take it out quickly; even if you do manage to KO Gliscor, it can often be too late if it's managed to get a couple of Toxics off and a Spike up.

Gliscor has been a hot topic within the community for months now. Even before the Kyurem ban-unban fiasco, sentiment was building that Gliscor has too much of a chokehold on SV OU; it is a bastion of longevity in a metagame characterised by a lack of staying power, and that can and does result in its value-per-game being heavily skewed in the favour of the Gliscor user. The council has come to the conclusion that even with Kyurem's presence, Gliscor is a controversial enough presence that it should be tested.

NOTE: THIS TEST WILL BE USING A NEW SUSPECT PROCESS!

The instructions to participate in this test are as follows:

• Create a new account on PS. You do not have to follow any specific naming convention, but your suspect account must have never played a game in OU before this suspect test went up or you will not receive valid requirements (resetting W-L does not count for this -- the account you use must never have played OU before the test, full stop.)
  • You can use /rank to check if your alt is allowed to get requirements. Whenever in doubt, type /rank and it will tell confirm if you are eligible like this
• At any point on your new account, use the command /linksmogon on Pokemon Showdown! You will receive instructions on what to do once you run this command.
• Double check that you're listed as a voter here! If you aren't listed as a voter despite having valid reqs, please contact Finchinator and/or Ruft.
• If you have any questions about this new process, feel free to PM Finchinator or Ruft!

The requirement to vote in this suspect test is a ELO of 1750 and GXE of 80! This was done after discussion in this thread. The deadline for getting requirements will be Friday, November 15th at 11 PM GMT-5. Good luck to all!

• No unhelpful one liners nor uninformed posts;
• No discussion on other potential suspects -- if you wish to discuss another Pokemon, we encourage you to do so in the metagame discussion thread, but this thread is strictly to discuss if Gliscor is banworthy or not;
• No discussion on the suspect process -- this includes testing Gliscor vs other potential suspects;
• You are required to make respectful posts;
• You are required to read this thread before posting.
• Failure to follow these simple guidelines will result in your post being deleted and infracted without any prior warning.
• Please also take a moment to read over some suggestions from the OU Council and the OU Moderation team for posting in this thread; adhering these will help out our time moderating the thread and present your arguments better and more educated.
  • Do not argue because it's your favorite Pokemon. This should be common sense, but please don't do this, because we will delete posts like this.
  • You do not need a boatload of experience to have an informed opinion, but please try to minimize the theorymon aspect and use your experiences watching and playing. Playing some on the ladder before posting is plenty if you're concerned about this.
  • Do not flame, belittle, or be disrespectful to users in this thread. While not everyone will read this post in its entirety nor will everyone have an informed opinion, please be sure not to be disrespectful. If there's an issue, bring it up to a moderator.
  • Do not use the argument of broken checking broken. Should your argument rest on your opinion that banning the Pokemon or mechanic being tested in this suspect test will make a Pokemon or mechanic broken, overpowered, and/or uncompetitive; don't. If something needs to be banned because of the result this suspect, then so be it.
  • This thread is not to voice complaints about the suspect process or decisions of the council. While we are more than open to hearing complaints that may arise, this isn't the place for it. I suggest you message the OU Council, PM our Tier Leaders, Finchinator and Ruft, or make a post in Senior Staff requests, should you have a badge.

Should you have any questions about the suspect test, feel free to message the OU Council. And if you have any questions about the moderation of this thread, feel free to message the OU Forum Leaders. I am tagging dhelmise and Marty to let them know about this, too.

Keep in mind that our suspect tests are decided by the community; anyone who rightfully achieves voting requisites is allowed to vote. The outcome is up to you.

VIEW VOTER REQS HERE

 

[Finchinator]

Hey everyone, I am going to make a post here to sum up all of the changes to our process as there are a few! As always, this thread will be locked for 24h so people can collect their thoughts and allow you guys to understand these changes.

First thing is that we will now have a second thread for qualified discussion. People who qualified for the Kyurem test as well as people who qualify for this test (either one -- you do not need to qualify for both) will be permitted to post in a second discussion thread that I will open later today. I will relay points from this thread to that thread and vice versa in order to allow everyone to engage in thoughtful discussion on the suspect. This will require some adjustment and extra effort on my part, but the product will hopefully be better for our players, which is always the ultimate goal.

This decision was made here after lots of discussion on the topic throughout the Kyurem suspect.

Second thing is that we now are using a new requirement linking and verification system. Please check out the "suspect test information" section of Lily's OP and PM me with any questions -- I will happily take time to explain anything needed and repeat questions I will answer in the thread.

In short, you no longer need to use a prefix, you still need to make a fresh alt to ladder, and you will be able to link your own alt with your Smogon account upon following the command and prompts. This cuts down on voter fraud and makes the process more efficient for everyone involved. A huge thank you to everyone on who made this happen -- many people more technically inclined and innovative than I ever will be came together to make this happen. Massive props to all of them and our wonderful team for working their magic.

Third and finally, new voting reqs are in place! Per the conclusion of a recent discussion on voter reqs here, you will now need to hit 80 GXE and 1750 ELO in order to get voting requirements. There is no minimum or maximum game total associated with this.

I hope everything is clear, but shoot me a message with any questions anytime!

 

[Finchinator]

And a reminder: this will be closed for 24 hours for people to collect their thoughts.

Same goes for the qualified discussion, which you can find here!

 

[Finchinator]

Hello, this thread is now open for Gliscor discussion!

Please remember the suspect specifics mentioned above (post #2) and feel free to check the list of verified voters (or see if you qualify) here!

 

[RainebowValiant]

In my honest opinion, Gliscor isn't overpowered. Nearly all playstyles have very easy ways to check it and annoy it.

Hyper-offense has numerous mons to chip it, trade with it, then wreck it quickly, such as Iron Moth, Roaring Moon, Iron Valiant, Ogerpon-Wellspring, etc. Weather teams also have numerous ways to handle it, despite them losing popularity as of late. Webs isn't too bothered either, as Meteor Beam Glimmora outright threatens to OHKO it and the main Webs setter as of late being Surf Araquanid (thanks Duckular).

Offense has numerous Pokémon such as Primarina, Taunt Landorus-T, and Ogerpon-Wellspring that all work together to handle it regardless of what set it is and what it decides to invest it.

Even balances and bulky offenses have numerous ways to defeat it, such as Weavile, Boots Kyurem (who's now back!), the aforementioned Primarina, Ice Spinner Great Tusk, CB Rillaboom, IronPress Corv, Hex Dragapult, Taunt Lando-T etc. Not that any of these Pokémon are permanent, solid answers on their own, but they're all good balance/BO mons that can be slotted together to create a solid plan against Gliscor.

Even bulkier teams have ways to tech for Gliscor. Clefable eternally has an empty slot besides Moonblast, Rocks, and Moonlight, and Ice Beam works perfectly to snipe not only Gliscor, but Lando-T, Garchomp, Dragonite, and the like. IronPress Corv is another solid answer that can be found on bulkier teams. Physically defensive Slowking-Galar is also okay with running Ice Beam as its third slot, and while it's nowhere near a solid answer, it can help. For styles such as Bulky Hazard Stack, Weavile and Darkrai are fantastic anyways as Knock Off users, and they both carry nukes to hit Scor with.

Finally, hard stall and semistall. Semistall often carries Pokémon such as Weavile, Hoopa-Unbound, Meowscarada, or any breakers that punish enemy passive teams, all of which destroy Gliscor as a result of their breaking prowess. Even hard stall has ways to beat quite a lot of Gliscors, from Ice Beam Clefable (although admittedly hard to fit), Avalanche Dondozo, IronPress Corv, Tera Ice Hydrapple (who isn't super common but exists), and Weezing-Galar, who all feature usage on stall. While yes, SD Gliscor's matchup into stall is certainly unfortunate at times, stall can and should have answers to at least partially mitigate the issue.

But the question is, what if Gliscor decides to Terastallize? Well, Tera is generally considered worth a Pokémon or even more, and while Gliscor is a fantastic abuser, it's still a weakness. Firstly, it's still incredibly weak to Kyurem, Meowscarada, and Ogerpon-Wellspring with Tera Water, and terastallizing to it will likely do nothing outside buy you a few turns against those 3. Tera Dragon is another common one, but it creates massive new weaknesses in the form of Fairies and fast Dragons such as Raging Bolt, Dragapult, and Iron Valiant. Finally, Tera Normal. Tera Normal is fantastic on some sets, however it often leads to you losing to IronPress Pokémon, Close Combat users, and gives you very few resistances to lean back on.

Gliscor is still a fantastic Tera user, I won't deny it. But every time it terastallizes, it gains new weaknesses to extremely common Pokémon that can be easily slotted on many playstyles, and also gives up its ability to be nearly hazard-immune, making it take hazard damage all over again if it's forced to switch out by a Pokémon that threatens its new type.While I do think Gliscor is an amazing Pokémon by all means, and deserves heavy consideration, planning, and prep on all playstyles, I don't think it's broken or banworthy specifically because every playstyle except arguably hard stall (who almost always use Gliscor anyways) can tech for it in numerous easy, slottable, and varied ways to answer not only its base typing, but its many teras as well.

 

[chaos]

Finch's instructions are unambiguous to me but we've had a couple of people in the UU and NatDex suspects make this mistake so I wanted to post in my own words what to do.

When you /rank an alt, there should either be:

- No entry whatsoever for Gen 9 OU

or

- The last column at the end should say "yes".

The column should never say "no". If it says "no", there is no amount of laddering that can be done to ever make it say "yes". The wording is potentially confusing and may suggest to people that it tracks whether or not you have currently made suspect test reqs, and that when you reach a certain GXE/ELO, it will flip to "yes". What it actually means is whether it is possible for this alt to participate in the suspect test in any capacity whatsoever.

We're going to change that wording to make it extra clear, but ultimately the column doesn't matter, when you switch to an alt, you shouldn't have an entry for Gen 9 OU.

Sorry if this is totally obvious but empirically it is not and I don't want you all to waste time.

 

[JackRG]

I think scor is perfectly fine in gen 9 ou and I don't think its a good idea to get rid of one of the only good defensive mons we have left. It is a very solid progress maker but I don't think that is necessarily negative or unhealthy, and mons like gambit and kyurem are far more limiting to balance than it.

 

[HunterNeverHere9]

imo gliscor shouldnt be unbanned. the reason is simple: evs. sure there are many different spreads it can run but you cant run all of them. run defensive gliscor and you underspeed a lot of relevant pokemon that threaten it. run offensive and it doesnt have the necessasry bulk anymore. also its weaknesses are really easy to exploit and even tera cant really save it.

 

[#1 Talonflame Enjoyer]

Greetings everyone! Your favorite Smogon Bird here, back for this suspect. I was pretty surprised to see Gliscor getting suspect tested even though I had seen people talking about it, so I'm gonna give my two cents on it.

First off, I am gonna talk about the different various sets there are and the threat they pose, just to give some perspective.

Swords Dance

The Swords Dance set, as of now, is the most threatening set on Gliscor, and for good reason. Being it has a good 95 speed tier (Speed Range 195 - 317) Which is above a lot of common OU mons like Raging Bolt , Dragonite , Gholdengo , Glimmora , Samurott-H , and most notably, Great Tusk.

On top of that, there is quite a bit of wiggle room for Gliscor in it's movepool, and it's EV's (Effort Values) Being that it can be either an offensive menace with Max Atk, Max Speed Jolly or a very hard-to-break wall with 252 HP, 232 Def/SpD and 24 Speed. On it's movepool side, Gliscor not only has a respectable STAB Earthquake, but other very good moves like Knock Off, and a very niche option: Facade. Gliscors ability: Poison Heal allows it to heal 1/8th HP when Poisoned. Which is why the best item for it is Toxic Orb. Which also protects it from being Burned, and notably, activates Facade to have a whopping 140 Base Power. Pair this with Tera Normal and there is . Plus, a common method, to stop Gliscor, Hex, is negated entirely due to the immunity Normal has to Ghost. Sometimes even Gliscor will drop the usual Earthquake in place for Facade / Knock Off. which does work very well, too.

Now of course, this set does not come without it's flaws. Fast Pokemon such as Walking Wake , Ogerpon-Wellspring , Meowscarada , Dragapult , Deoxys-S , and Darkrai all can threaten it being Tera isn't available with either Strong Ice, Water, or Sheerly Powerful moves. Ogerpon-Wellspring especially can be Gliscors worst nightmare by using Encore, locking it into Swords Dance or Protect before it can even move. On top of this, while my previous comment about "barely anything that can take a +2 Tera Boosted Facade" is true, and a lot of common mons such as Dondozo , Corviknight , Zamazenta , and even Offensive Great Tusk can take a Tera Boosted Facade Each, albeit, okay.

+2 252 Atk Tera Normal Gliscor Facade (140 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 128-151 (32 - 37.8%) -- 93.5% chance to 3HKO

+2 252 Atk Tera Normal Gliscor Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Dondozo: 121-144 (24 - 28.5%) -- 97.3% chance to 4HKO

+2 252 Atk Tera Normal Gliscor Facade (140 BP) vs. +1 252 HP / 88 Def Zamazenta: 202-238 (52 - 61.3%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252 Atk Gliscor Facade (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Great Tusk: 195-230 (52.5 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

And to top it off, this is WITH terastallization. Should this be taken away, it would not only do substantially less, but put it at a lot more risk to Setup or, in Great Tusks Case, get destroyed by Ice Spinner.

And just personally, the Defensive SD set is about the same as offensive, but a bit worse since you aren't outspending anything and the bulk is only gonna give you one more turn.

Defensive Spikes / Toxic

A lot of people really hate this set, and for good reason. Gliscor being the monster it is has amazing Defensive Bulk, which allows it to run Special Defense with its phoenomenal Ability to be almost impossible to OHKO. The Spikes set is really annoying due to the fact that it's hard to remove due to the fact Gliscor almost always runs protect to get back HP with Poison Heal, and can then play mind games with you, which is always such a pain to deal with (Why else would I hate Kingambit?) On top of that, we've established that it has Knock Off, which even if not being used for big damage, still is very much a problem because it can remove Heavy-Duty Boots , the main metagame item and can end up having Spikes be your downfall. Also something I don't see anyone has mentioned is that Gliscor has U-turn, allowing it to guaranteed get a usually slow switch, some damage, and it's guaranteed since nothing is immune to Bug, and things like Flame Body don't even work because it'd usually be Poisoned already, protecting it from burns.

Another thing I've seen complained about is Toxic, which I know from experience Gliscor loves to spam and spread status, which paired with hazards, is very annoying. Although I don't think this is as bad as Spikes, being that there are two types immune to it, and Toxic, unlike regular poison, does less damage the first tick of damage it does. Plus, there are lots of abilities that make mons either immune to or have Toxic removable. (I.e, Natural Cure, Purifying Salt, etc.)

Now on the contrary to all this, this particular set is at best, annoying. Since HDB Spam is so common and Hazard Removal is practically required in this metagame, and I'm not sure Gliscor is gonna be having fun when Great Tusk starts Spinning all over it. Plus, Flying types are immune to Spikes, so they aren't gonna be doing much on that account. However, if given the right conditions, it can be very hard to deal with.

Double Dance

This set, while being a lot more uncommon, is still viable and should have players looking out for it, just in case. It runs a bunch of strange EVs, but all of them are maticulously planned to make this thing a demon:
https://pokepast.es/fbab075e0d8f0a39

288 Speed tier lets it outspeeds speed demons like Deo-S, Scarf Meowscarada, and Scarf Darkrai after One Agility, which makes it very hard to take it down after it does. I personally, think this set is the most threatening to the metagame, but it's mainly just about what I have seen, and otherwise, Offensive Swords Dance is mainly more dangerous otherwise.

Now I'm sure you can see the obvious problem with this in that it has to set up both Agility and Swords Dance for this set to work, but if executed properly, you might be in more danger to it than any other set. But yeah, just kill it before it can set up and you should be good.

Finishing Thoughts

Gliscor is definitely a powerful Pokemon in the OverUsed metagame, being very versatile and has very good stats to make it either Bulky or Offensive, and often times can leave opponents up to some hard choices.

However, I do not believe Gliscor and it's sets are enough to push it into broken territory. Therefore, if I do get requirements, I will Guarenteed be voting DO NOT BAN on Gliscor.

I hope you enjoyed reading this and my thoughts on the suspect test. Have a great day everyone, God Bless.

 

[mcribs]

Double Dance

This set, while being a lot more uncommon, is still viable and should have players looking out for it, just in case. It runs a bunch of strange EVs, but all of them are maticulously planned to make this thing a demon:
https://pokepast.es/fbab075e0d8f0a39

288 Speed tier lets it outspeeds speed demons like Deo-S, Scarf Meowscarada, and Scarf Darkrai after One Agility, which makes it very hard to take it down after it does. I personally, think this set is the most threatening to the metagame, but it's mainly just about what I have seen, and otherwise, Offensive Swords Dance is mainly more dangerous otherwise.

Now I'm sure you can see the obvious problem with this in that it has to set up both Agility and Swords Dance for this set to work, but if executed properly, you might be in more danger to it than any other set. But yeah, just kill it before it can set up and you should be good.

I agree with nearly all of your points except mainly on double dance. Maybe it's just me, but gliscor is just way too resilient at times to just go down quickly, especially with tera. Any misprediction or them using their tera can sometimes lead to a complete sweep, and is the one set I have major gripes with. Otherwise, I completely agree with not banning gliscor.

 

[KeshBa54]

Finch's instructions are unambiguous to me but we've had a couple of people in the UU and NatDex suspects make this mistake so I wanted to post in my own words what to do.

When you /rank an alt, there should either be:

- No entry whatsoever for Gen 9 OU

or

- The last column at the end should say "yes".

The column should never say "no". If it says "no", there is no amount of laddering that can be done to ever make it say "yes". The wording is potentially confusing and may suggest to people that it tracks whether or not you have currently made suspect test reqs, and that when you reach a certain GXE/ELO, it will flip to "yes". What it actually means is whether it is possible for this alt to participate in the suspect test in any capacity whatsoever.

We're going to change that wording to make it extra clear, but ultimately the column doesn't matter, when you switch to an alt, you shouldn't have an entry for Gen 9 OU.

Sorry if this is totally obvious but empirically it is not and I don't want you all to waste time.

Can I ladder on an alt before registering it?it says neither yes or no then

 

[chaos]

Can I ladder on an alt before registering it?it says neither yes or no then

Once a suspect starts, the eligibility of an alt is not changed by you laddering on it. If there is no entry for Gen 9 OU, then the answer is yes. If an alt was eligible, but you didn't check and laddered on it, then it will say "yes".

You will need to register the alt before /linksmogon but this can be done at any time. I would recommend registering it before signing off so nobody takes your alt and ladders on it--this situation may result in your vote being discarded for fraud.

 

[Seraphyde]

The most prominent part of an unholy quartet keeping the game from finally being fun again and if I could pick only one member of those four to be eliminated it would be this one.

I think that in order to understand why Gliscor is still broken we must first review the qualities that it has as a reminder of just exactly what we are dealing with here.

Gliscor has, in a nutshell, Leftovers on steroids combined with status immunity and, at least pre-Tera, a veritable immunity to hazards since it doesn't take damage from Spikes and takes neutral damage from Stealth Rock that it can just heal back in one turn. Combined with one of the best defensive typings in the game and well-rounded stats, the little bastard has remained not only relevant but outright dominant in the face of overwhelming powercreep. Now, it's been considered fine before, so what's breaking it (it's not just Tera)?

This Was Not Part Of The Plan

Several counters touted as reliable checks, are--shocker--not as reliable as they may seem. Many checks that were previously prominent such as Weavile, Meowscarada, Serperior, Deoxys-Fast, and Skarmory have fallen or are projected to fall to UU. In addition, even mons that are reliably OU still have trouble breaking through it. I will be going over a few of them.

Psychic Noise Users

The three most prominent Psychic Noise users in the tier absolutely do NOT want to switch into Gliscor. EQ is the go-to move for the singular attack on defensive sets, Iron Crown and Glowking do not like that, and Primarina's physical frailty means that it can switch in once at most, unless it has Draining Kiss in which case you can switch in twice or thrice; Primarina also has to contend with her Psychic Noise not being STAB, and Liquid Voice, while reliable in beating the bat, is a suboptimal choice due to being unable to hit Poison types supereffectively. To top it all off, Gliscor moves first against Primarina.

0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Crown: 206-246 (64.1 - 76.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 16 Def Slowking-Galar: 242-288 (61.4 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Primarina: 133-157 (41.4 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Even if it lacks Earthquake for some reason, all of these three and more are ripped to pieces by Salt Cure (more on that later). Primarina can be easily defeated by Toxic.

Hex Users

Depending on the set, Hex users range from being okay to being utter dead weight against Gliscor. Functionally, they can't actually inflict status on it, and Gliscor's sheer bulk, independently of being physically or specially invested, makes it an uphill battle to actually get rid of it.

0 SpA Gholdengo Hex (130 BP) vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 159-187 (45.1 - 53.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal
0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 196+ Def Gholdengo: 162-192 (42.8 - 50.7%) -- 2.7% chance to 2HKO

Air Balloon Ghold does wall, but there is now immense pressure on you to keep its Air Balloon intact, as once it pops, Gliscor can shit in Ghold’s mouth; your opponent is going to try their absolute hardest to pop it. And if it has Knock Off, you’re done for.

196 SpA Dragapult Hex (130 BP) vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 150-177 (42.6 - 50.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal
0 Atk Gliscor Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 170-202 (53.6 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Gliscor Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 114-136 (35.9 - 42.9%) -- guaranteed 3KO

Dragapult 100% does not want to stay in against this thing, it is more often than not 2KOed by Knock Off and is guaranteed to be stalled out by Toxic. Choice Band Dragapult is a meme

General Offensive Threats

132 SpA Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 112-133 (31.8 - 37.7%) -- 69.6% chance to 4HKO after Poison Heal
252 SpA Quark Drive Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 160-189 (45.4 - 53.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal Nobody uses this shit
0 Atk Gliscor Facade (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 124 Def Iron Moth: 122-144 (40.5 - 47.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

I don’t even need to calculate what Gliscor can do back. Substitute shenanigans are irrelevant because the bat can just mash EQ until you run out of HP.

252 Atk Protosynthesis Roaring Moon Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 174-205 (49.4 - 58.2%) -- 11.7% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal
252 Atk Protosynthesis Roaring Moon Knock Off vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 117-138 (33.2 - 39.2%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Protosynthesis Roaring Moon Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 131-155 (37.2 - 44%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

RM cannot reliably break Gliscor without Tera or DD, and, just like with everything else, can be Toxic stalled or have its boosts matched by Gliscor.

252 SpA Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 130-154 (36.9 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
(This does more damage than item boosted Knock Off btw) 252 Atk Iron Valiant Close Combat vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 78-93 (22.1 - 26.4%) -- 12.8% chance to 4HKO
0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Valiant: 112-133 (38.7 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Ival 100% needs to boost and be quite healthy in order to break it. Encore is a good way to annoy the bat but it can Protect itself from Encore and switch out if it thinks you’ll Encore again. It should be noted that not every Ival runs Encore or boosting moves. Gliscor can easily SD or Toxic; even if it gets Encored, Toxic variants in particular put Ival on a short timer.

252 Atk Sharpness Samurott-Hisui Razor Shell vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 258-306 (73.2 - 86.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO The opposing Gliscor avoided the attack!
252 Atk Sharpness Samurott-Hisui Aqua Cutter vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 242-288 (68.7 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Samurott-Hisui: 124-147 (38.6 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 0 Atk Gliscor Facade (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Samurott-Hisui: 232-273 (72.2 - 85%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Gliscor U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Samurott-Hisui: 116-138 (36.1 - 42.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO Thank you 658Greninja for giving us this abomination of a set!

Admittedly, and surprisingly, this is the most reliable Gliscor check that isn’t an outright counter, as it 100% does not want to take a Knock Off followed by a super effective Razor Shell. That being said, max speed SD sets can easily nuke Sam with Facade, as well as the rare U-Turn. Sam absolutely does not want to switch in on a boosted Gliscor, and while Gliscor does not want to switch in on it either, the uncommonly run U-Turn can very easily put Sam in a bad position. Encore on Sam is a meme.

240 Atk Landorus-Therian Stone Edge vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 94-111 (26.7 - 31.5%) -- possible 5HKO

Self explanatory.

Choice Items

252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 235-277 (66.7 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
-2 252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 118-139 (33.5 - 39.4%) -- 98.5% chance to 4HKO after Poison Heal

Self-explanatory. Become setup fodder and get knocked off. Assuming that you don’t miss.

252 Atk Choice Band Dragapult Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 186-222 (52.8 - 63%) -- approx. 77.7% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal Nobody uses this shit

If they can tell it’s banded damage, they can just click Knock Off or a rare Tera Fairy.

252+ Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor in Grassy Terrain: 151-178 (42.8 - 50.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal
252+ Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Wood Hammer vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor in Grassy Terrain: 325-384 (92.3 - 109%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
+2 0 Atk Gliscor Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rillaboom: 145-171 (42.5 - 50.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
+2 0 Atk Gliscor Facade (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rillaboom: 209-246 (61.2 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

Grassy Glide cannot 2KO, making you setup or Toxic fodder. If you risk recoil damage just to get rid of Gliscor then that’s only a testament to how broken it is.

220 Atk Choice Band Roaring Moon Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 195-231 (55.3 - 65.6%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal
220 Atk Choice Band Roaring Moon Knock Off vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 132-156 (37.5 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
220 Atk Choice Band Roaring Moon Outrage vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 241-285 (68.4 - 80.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Roaring Moon Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 261-307 (74.1 - 87.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
252 Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Roaring Moon Knock Off vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 175-207 (49.7 - 58.8%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Roaring Moon Outrage vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 322-379 (91.4 - 107.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

Do people still use this set? Anyways you have to go with the nuclear option on Sun if you want to take it down. Even then, it still has the opportunity to Toxic.

Choice Band Samurott-H is a meme and so is Choice Band Meowscarada and Choice Specs Raging Neck.

Life Orb

252 SpA Life Orb Glimmora Power Gem vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 152-179 (43.1 - 50.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal

This is a set I cooked in response to missing Meteor Beam too often. Needless to say it doesn’t do much, but if you put this into the calculator it does some insane stuff like 2KOing the metal birds so the fact that Gliscor can survive this very well is yet another indictment against it.

252 SpA Life Orb Darkrai Dark Pulse vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 153-183 (43.4 - 51.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal

This assumes that Gliscor has either Teraed or you’re deliberately hiding Ice Beam in order to surprise it. But yeah, the fact that it can easily survive the STAB of one of the best special attackers in the game to the point that some idiots want it banned is yet another indictment against the bat.

252 Atk Life Orb Roaring Moon Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 175-207 (49.7 - 58.8%) -- 11.7% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal
252 Atk Life Orb Roaring Moon Knock Off vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 117-138 (33.2 - 39.2%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO
220 Atk Life Orb Roaring Moon Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 169-200 (48 - 56.8%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal
220 Atk Life Orb Roaring Moon Knock Off vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 114-136 (32.3 - 38.6%) -- 98.7% chance to 3HKO

If you’re tired of needing to wait to DD (I know that I am), you can try this out. Except it still can’t break the bat.

252 Atk Life Orb Sharpness Samurott-Hisui Razor Shell vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 335-398 (95.1 - 113%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Sharpness Samurott-Hisui Aqua Cutter vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 315-374 (89.4 - 106.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

This is a set that exists, I guess. Still not guaranteed to kill but it’s there… and it can still be outsped.

Life Orb UUVile is a meme.

Ice Types and Ice Type Coverage

This brings me back to my earlier point about how many previously reliable checks have fallen off greatly. Most Ice Beam users sans Kyurem and Glowking are very low in usage and weak to other metagame staples, some of which such as Garg or Mola are frequently paired with Gliscor.

252 SpA Kyurem Freeze-Dry vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Tera Water Gliscor: 204-242 (57.9 - 68.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

Though a suboptimal option, Gliscor can Tera to avoid an OKO from Kyurem. It can easily get off a Toxic and switch into a resist. Kyurem does force out Gliscor, but positioning it to do so is actually quite difficult if it’s not carrying HDB (a well known power limiter). It does NOT enjoy Knock Off or Facade or Earthquake.

144+ SpA Slowking-Galar Ice Beam vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 312-368 (88.6 - 104.5%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

I really don’t know why you would ever switch a Glowking into Gliscor but there you go. The fact that Gliscor even has a chance of surviving this, let alone over a 2/3 chance, really tells you all that you need to know.

Darkrai and Deoxys-Fast (calcs not necessary) are invalidated by Tera and cannot break Gliscor without boosting which it can easily match or Toxic Stall out. UUvile and FRAUDscarada get Protected on and then Gliscor switches into something that beats it.

Tera Blast Ice

I don’t even know why I’m giving this my attention. It was a moot point against Kyurem and it’s a moot point here. If you’re actually using Tera Blast Ice on something I invite you to please reconsider your Gliscor answer. Offensive Tera Ice is useless except on Kyurem and UUVile and isn’t even used too often on them.

252 SpA Tera Ice Serperior Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 324-384 (92 - 109%) -- 50% chance to OHKO fucking lmao

Toxic-Immune Pokemon

Another moot point because of Earthquake. Even Garg doesn’t generally want to switch in on Gliscor due to the risk of Knock Off, much like Gholdengo. Tera Poison is the same thing.

Meteor Meme Glimmora

+1 252 SpA Glimmora Meteor Beam vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 261-307 (74.1 - 87.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal The opposing Gliscor avoided the attack! Gliscor used Earthquake!

Ogerbroad-Wellspring

252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Ivy Cudgel vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 296-350 (84 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

Frankly, she’s the only one that can reliably beat every Gliscor set offensively. With STABs and Superpower and Play Rough for coverage, Gliscor does not want to switch into this thing. Even then, however, she can’t OKO without SR chip, Poison Jab isn’t unheard of, and Superpower’s defense drop can leave her vulnerable if Gliscor survives. Ironically, Ogerbroad is a very good partner for Gliscor, soaking up (no pun intended) Water attacks that threaten the bat.

Substitutes, Aurora Veil, and Dual Screens

Heavily matchup dependent as can be seen with Iron Moth and it’s basically required to be already set up before Gliscor comes in, which is hard to do because of its longevity and offensive and defensive pressure. Grimmsnarl and Alolan Ninetales in particular are huge momentum sinks that can allow Gliscor to set up.

Weather and Terrain Teams

Also heavily matchup dependent. Sand (who plays sand unironically) fuck all against Gliscor unless Tyranitar is carrying Ice Beam. Sun is… okay against Gliscor? Rain SHOULD do well, but Gliscor teams usually are prepared for it, same with Grassy Terrain. GT in particular is good against only defensive variants thanks to EQ getting shitcanned but isn’t too good against SD variants.

Taunt

Taunt does not shut down a boosted Gliscor because it can just begin attacking and have a reasonable chance of KOing. Taunting is also reliant on being fast, and moreover, Gliscor can easily scout for Taunt using Protect. At most, Taunt forces Gliscor out, but there is now immense pressure for you to keep your Taunt user alive. Taunt is usable, but giving up an entire move slot for it limits what that mon can do, especially if for some reason you have more than one Taunt user.

Encore

Same as above, but a bit more reliable, but also more scoutable and predictable.

Walls AKA Ice Type Coverage Part 2

All of the above have been offensive answers, but what about defensive ones? Well, defensive answers to Gliscor are shaky. The steel birds and defensive Great Tusk wall it, but other physical walls such Garganacl require Curse in order to match SDs. Dozo can wall, but can also be forced to Rest if it uses Toxic, which Gliscor can take advantage of to switch out and into a Dozo counter. Garg can usually wall out Toxic variants through status immunity, but lose to SD. Avalanche on Dozo is usable, but uncommon, and you’re giving up either Waterfall or BP or Sleep Talk (lmao) in order to use it, and all of those are staple Dozo moves. Same thing with Ice Beam Blissey or CleFEEBLE. Only Stored Power Unaware sets can reliably answer Gliscor. Stored Power Magic Guard loses to SD. Glowking cannot answer Gliscor without Ice Beam. Lando can Intimidate, but Gliscor can boost past it. If it doesn’t have Taunt, it’s kind of dead weight.

0 Atk Great Tusk Ice Spinner vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 232-276 (65.9 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal Tusk obviously wins, this is just included to show how fucking bulky Gliscor is
0 SpA Clefable Ice Beam vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 220-260 (62.5 - 73.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal Works, but kind of a waste
0 SpA Slowking-Galar Ice Beam vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 248-296 (70.4 - 84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal Please just use the AV set if you’re going to try this
0 Atk Dondozo Waterfall vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 138-164 (39.2 - 46.5%) -- 82.6% chance to 3HKO after Poison Heal You’re most likely going to need to Rest or risk death
0 Atk Dondozo Avalanche vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 140-168 (39.7 - 47.7%) -- 94.6% chance to 3HKO after Poison Heal I really thought this would do more
0 Atk Dondozo Avalanche vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 276-328 (78.4 - 93.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal Still can’t OKO
0 Atk Garganacl Salt Cure vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 34-42 (9.6 - 11.9%) -- possible 9HKO Salt Cure at most neutralizes Poison Heal. You need Ice Punch in order to actually do anything to Gliscor.

Just Use Niche Pokemon, Bro

I find this argument to be disingenuous because it’s actually a good argument for something being broken. If you have to reach into lower tiers and their respective BLs to find a consistent answer to a Pokemon then it is broken because that means it has already well adapted to metagame staples. Poopa Unbound and Ice Punch Iron Hands can both reliably deal with Gliscor for example, but they are very difficult to justify using even on the few team structures that they fit on. In fact, if Gliscor manages to survive Hyperspace Fury, it can cripple Hoopa with Toxic or KO back with Facade. It’s like suggesting that you should use Basc-F to beat Zamazenta, it works in a vacuum, but not really in practice. Neutralizing Gas Geezing (I don’t even know why I’m mentioning it) 100% does not want to stay in to take Earthquakes, and Latios/as hate Knock Off.

Go Ahead, Switch In, I Fucking Dare You

Basically nothing wants to switch into Gliscor for three reasons: Toxic, Longevity, and Set Variety.

Switching into Gliscor is a gamble against a Toxic miss or a failed Protect, forcing frustrating 50/50s several times throughout the course of a match. Unlike Kyurem or Great Tusk it is very difficult to tell what Gliscor is going to do based on team structure. Balance and BO and Hazard Stack alike all get monumental utility from both SD and Spikes sets. As a result, you simply can never have an idea of when it is safe to switch in. Bring in Ghold on a predicted EQ and get Knocked Off. Bring in Garg on a predicted Knock Off and get EQed. Between Toxic and the three attacks that can be viably run, all of them will make great progress no matter what. Gliscor has several opportunities to do what it wants thanks to mindgames and its built in qualities.

Gliscor And Friends

Gliscor on stall and fat structures is commonly paired with Blissey and other mons that we love to hate. It has been for some time, so what’s changed?

ZapKingLu is an infamous name, and while it’s fallen off in viability, as an idea, “ZapKingLu”, referring to an asinine playstyle of passive fat balance that relies on frequent switching, is still very much alive. In fact, I’d argue that GlisKingLu is the new passive meta threat. Substitute Glowking for a stallmon of your choice. Garganacl or Alomomola preferably for maximum annoyance. These options were previously unavailable to Gliscor, but now it can pair with other asinine options to form cores and team structures that are simply insipid.

The Great Tusk In The Room

I think it’s already well known that Gliscor is a premier Tera abuser, but much like its other traits I think it’s important to restate it.

I have neglected to mention Tera up until now (with as limited exceptions as possible) because Gliscor is great without Tera. Oftentimes it doesn’t even need to Tera in order to win a game. But if it does, you’re usually going to get swept or stalled. Tera Normal sets can easily get a free turn to set up against Hex users and completely shut them down by becoming a reliable switch-in. Tera Water sets can do the same in order to get a free opportunity to attack.

Gliscor is better at beating is checks than ever before, and it uses Tera better than any other mon by virtue of requiring either boosted or repeated supereffective hits to eliminate. Sound familiar?

Gliscor’s sheer bulk also often forces Teras from opposing Pokemon, which it can easily sponge up.

132 SpA Tera Grass Iron Moth Energy Ball vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 127-150 (36 - 42.6%) -- 2.1% chance to 3HKO after Poison Heal Gliscor used Toxic!
0 Atk Gliscor Facade (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Flying Glimmora: 106-125 (34.5 - 40.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO This set can beat Gliscor but it is VERY situational and Gliscor can heavily damage it if it outspeeds Glimmora or use Toxic

I did not mention Tera up until now because it is very matchup dependent and can easily be matched by Gliscor. If a Pokemon can force Tera’s this often and still have a chance of beating them, it is profoundly unhealthy. We saw this with Gouging Faceplate.

Schrödinger’s Bat: Part 1 - Tipping The Scales of Balance

Gliscor is a great balance breaker and simultaneously great for balance. This would be healthy for the metagame if it wasn’t for the fact that the entire matchup revolves around Gliscor. If you have a Gliscor, and the other guy doesn’t, the matchup is in your favor. If you don’t have a Gliscor and the other guy does, the matchup is in his favor. If both of you have a Gliscor, then you get a brainless mirror match.

Gliscor is indeed good against fat but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s absolutely asinine on fat cores. Lots of broken threats are able to guarantee progress against fat teams, doesn’t mean that they also can’t be broken on fat teams.

Schrödinger’s Bat: Part 2 - Stalling For Time

I will preface this by stating that I sincerely do not believe that stall deserves as much consideration in tiering decisions as other playstyles. This is not because it is frustrating to play against, but rather for three reasons: it is a niche playstyle, it is radically different from all other playstyles, and it is limited in the scope of variety that it can have. As a result of these traits, giving it equal consideration with other playstyles would introduce a myriad of unnecessary considerations and complications into tiering decisions. All things considered, I will be giving stall equal footing with other playstyles in an effort to be in good faith as possible.

Gliscor is good against stall and good on stall much like it is on fat teams. What makes this situation different is that Gliscor is a staple on stall teams. As a result of this, stall players have a vested interest in keeping Gliscor OU legal, and this would be a legitimate self-interest if Gliscor were only disgusting on stall teams. But it isn’t. Gliscor doesn’t just make stall insufferable, it makes any team it’s present on insufferable, both when used against stall and with stall.

I do not want Gliscor to be banned because it will hurt stall. You should not want Gliscor to be banned because it will hurt stall. Banning Gliscor will hurt stall, but it will not kill stall. It will have more effects than just hurting stall and those effects will be largely positive and that is why I will be voting to ban Gliscor and why I urge you to vote to ban Gliscor.

Some guy reached Top 100 with a monopoison stall team. Stall will not die if Gliscor gets banned because stall players are simply too fucking dedicated and will find new ways to keep stalling. There is a Google Document out there called “The Stall Bible” with many pages of obscenely detailed breakdowns on stallmons and how to build a stall team. They will not stop. Ever.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2236747175-v3llmwubeuwn939so4bjo3dxfbf2dcjpw

The Worst Is Yet To Come: A Gachapon Of Tera Types

If you thought that the Shadow Kyurem was scary, wait until you see what Gliscor is capable of. Tera Poison Poison Jab sets can easily take down Ogerpon and have the natural bulk to survive Earthquakes (assuming an EQ user is still alive); if Mola is running Tera Flying Acrobatics then this really isn’t outside of the realm of possibility. Who’s to say that Tera Fairy isn’t coming next? Meanwhile, Tera Dragon is making a resurgence with the bans of several Dragon types in conjunction with the fall-offs of Ice types and Ice coverage users; in a pinch, the bat can even Tera Dragon to survive an Ice attack.

0 Atk Ting-Lu Earthquake vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Tera Poison Gliscor: 186-222 (52.8 - 63%) -- 77.7% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal
252 Atk Great Tusk Earthquake vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Tera Poison Gliscor: 264-312 (75 - 88.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
252 Atk Protosynthesis Great Tusk Earthquake vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Tera Poison Gliscor: 342-404 (97.1 - 114.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Darkrai Ice Beam vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Tera Dragon Gliscor: 180-212 (51.1 - 60.2%) -- 36.3% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal
252 Atk Kyurem Scale Shot (4 hits) vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Tera Dragon Gliscor: 264-320 (75 - 90.9%) -- approx. 2HKO after Poison Heal
252 Atk Kyurem Icicle Spear (4 hits) vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Tera Dragon Gliscor: 264-320 (75 - 90.9%) -- approx. 2HKO after Poison Heal
252 SpA Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Tera Dragon Gliscor: 260-308 (73.8 - 87.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
252 SpA Kyurem Freeze-Dry vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Tera Dragon Gliscor: 204-242 (57.9 - 68.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
252+ SpA Raging Bolt Thunderclap vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Tera Water Gliscor: 234-276 (66.4 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
252+ SpA Raging Bolt Thunderbolt vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Tera Water Gliscor: 300-354 (85.2 - 100.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO Raging Bolt must have its Booster Energy intact in order to fight Gliscor. If Gliscor outspeeds or you get a Thunderclap fail, you lose.

This is obscene. It can use Toxic on basically anything due to its bulk, making progress no matter what, and can SD in the face of a lot of things.

On the offensive side, we’ve seen horrifying new mutations take place such as 658Greninja’s U-Turn sets and a new Double Dance set. Tera Poison can also be used offensively. I don’t think those sets need much elaboration. Oh, and literally none of this post mentions EV spreads which are a whole different beast.

If Gliscor remains legal, expect it to somehow become even more infuriating both offensively and defensively.

In Conclusion: Get This Thing Out Of Here

Through a combination of Terastalization, extremely favorable metagame trends, and unique inherent qualities that make it guaranteed to stay egregiously dominant no matter what metagame changes occur, Gliscor has simply become too much to handle for Gen 9 OU. Its progress making capabilities are unrivaled and require several avenues of attack and defense in order to be reliably insured against them, and oftentimes sheer luck can screw over Gliscor’s opponent anyway. Banning it will ease pressure on all manners of team structures while simultaneously making team structures more balanced and skill-based, and lead to an overall healthier metagame. Gliscor’s presence in the tier is extremely difficult to out-offense and extremely difficult to wall, and above that it is simply not necessary; its role can be filled by healthier options.

In my own personal opinion, I truly believe that an offensive threat that is impossible to reliably OKO is unhealthy because it allows it to make guaranteed, and often severe progress; defensive Pokemon have a bit more leeway in virtue of their passivity. This is the primary issue with mons like Gouging Faceplate and Zamazenta and it’s certainly an issue with Gliscor. If you don't want to listen to me on this subject, you can listen to DaddyBuzzwole instead, he makes some similar points about Gliscor after changing his mind from previously thinking that it was fine and goes over some more metagame history in addition to going more in depth about set variety than I do.

Metagame Post in thread 'SV OU Metagame Discussion v4'

Sep 29, 2024

since the topic of gliscor came up, here are my thoughts on it.

gliscor was unequivocally broken in dlc1, but i don't think it is right now. very strong? yes. the best spikes setter in this endless bloody war against hazards? without a doubt. annoying as shit? absolutely. but banworthy? i don't think so, and here's why:

PART 1: NEW ANSWERS

between new moves, returning mons, and expanded movepools, dlc2 introduced some options that can beat gliscor 1v1 fairly easily:

• thanks to regaining triple axel, weavile is much more splashable than before and...

• DaddyBuzzwole

• 
• 

 

[Seronius]

Im calling my shot now I think because of these new changes (ELO of 1750 and GXE of 80!) I believe there will be less then 25 voters on this suspect test

 

[sire clod]

"Encore on Samurott is a meme" where do you get these ideas?

 

[Seraphyde]

"Encore on Samurott is a meme" where do you get these ideas?

In my entire time of playing Gen 9 OU I have literally never once seen a Samurott running Encore (Taunt as well, for that matter) despite it being listed on the Strategy Pokedex. Is it just a super high ladder thing? Is it something that USED to be common? And it's kind of suboptimal because you'll be using it less than something like Sucker Punch or Flip Turn. Samurott is quite slow as well, if you want an Encore user then Ival or Wogerpon is better. Dragonite is a better Encore user as well because it's fat.

 

[RainebowValiant]

In my entire time of playing Gen 9 OU I have literally never once seen a Samurott running Encore (Taunt as well, for that matter) despite it being listed on the Strategy Pokedex. Is it just a super high ladder thing? Is it something that USED to be common? And it's kind of suboptimal because you'll be using it less than something like Sucker Punch or Flip Turn. Samurott is quite slow as well, if you want an Encore user then Ival or Wogerpon is better. Dragonite is a better Encore user as well because it's fat.

Genuinely I think you might just not play this game if you've never seen this option. Encore ham is extremely common at all levels of play

Im calling my shot now I think because of these new changes (ELO of 1750 and GXE of 80!) I believe there will be less then 25 voters on this suspect test

This is true and would be funny, US elections also affect this

 

[Finchinator]

Im calling my shot now I think because of these new changes (ELO of 1750 and GXE of 80!) I believe there will be less then 25 voters on this suspect test

We already have more than that within the first 2 full days.

It is funny you say this though as some people think the exact opposite:

In the end, it is impossible to make everyone happy, but this is the best first step in balancing out all of the needs expressed in the Policy Review thread on reqs.

 

[Delibird Heart]

Some guy reached Top 100 with a monopoison stall team. Stall will not die if Gliscor gets banned because stall players are simply too fucking dedicated and will find new ways to keep stalling. There is a Google Document out there called “The Stall Bible” with many pages of obscenely detailed breakdowns on stallmons and how to build a stall team. They will not stop. Ever.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2236747175-v3llmwubeuwn939so4bjo3dxfbf2dcjpw

that guy was me btw, shoutouts myself.

To be honest I would agree on saying gliscor is not necessary to playing stall at all, but that also doesn't equate to glisc being banworthy. If anything, it goes to show that maybe he's not that broken, in a way.

 

[sire clod]

In my entire time of playing Gen 9 OU I have literally never once seen a Samurott running Encore (Taunt as well, for that matter) despite it being listed on the Strategy Pokedex. Is it just a super high ladder thing? Is it something that USED to be common? And it's kind of suboptimal because you'll be using it less than something like Sucker Punch or Flip Turn. Samurott is quite slow as well, if you want an Encore user then Ival or Wogerpon is better. Dragonite is a better Encore user as well because it's fat.

Samurott is a very viable encore user, it's effective vs fat, has just enough bulk to live shit like a Roaring Moon attack if need be...plenty of use cases for it getting an encore off, for both Sash or Boots Samu

 

[Heatranator]

The most prominent part of an unholy quartet keeping the game from finally being fun again and if I could pick only one member of those four to be eliminated it would be this one.

Wow, this post is so bad I actually wanted to post in a suspect test thread in order to correct it. Good job, I guess? (I put this in a spoiler so it doesn't clog up the thread)

Yapping

The three most prominent Psychic Noise users in the tier absolutely do NOT want to switch into Gliscor. EQ is the go-to move for the singular attack on defensive sets, Iron Crown and Glowking do not like that, and Primarina's physical frailty means that it can switch in once at most, unless it has Draining Kiss in which case you can switch in twice or thrice; Primarina also has to contend with her Psychic Noise not being STAB, and Liquid Voice, while reliable in beating the bat, is a suboptimal choice due to being unable to hit Poison types supereffectively. To top it all off, Gliscor moves first against Primarina.

You forgot to mention Hatterene, which is a great mon in the tier due to Magic bounce (also completely fucks up defensive scor, as it can't lay hazards or toxic it).
0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 204+ Def Hatterene: 81-96 (25.4 - 30.1%) -- 0.5% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Hatterene also commonly runs calm mind, which sets up on defensive variants entirely, as draining kiss at +2 outdamages e-quake (which is very easy to do, especially with leftovers). SD variants it struggles more against, but it can survive 2 +2 facades from full most of the time and hit back with two psychic noises.

Even if it lacks Earthquake for some reason, all of these three and more are ripped to pieces by Salt Cure (more on that later). Primarina can be easily defeated by Toxic.

What does this have to do with gliscor at all lol? Putting garg and gliscor on the same team is just asking for offensive water types to destroy you.

Depending on the set, Hex users range from being okay to being utter dead weight against Gliscor. Functionally, they can't actually inflict status on it, and Gliscor's sheer bulk, independently of being physically or specially invested, makes it an uphill battle to actually get rid of it.

Why would you care about them not being able to inflict status? Gliscor activating its toxic orb really is more then enough for them. Sure, dragapult can't burn it, but it still gets boosted hex's.

0 SpA Gholdengo Hex (130 BP) vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 159-187 (45.1 - 53.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal
0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 196+ Def Gholdengo: 162-192 (42.8 - 50.7%) -- 2.7% chance to 2HKO

Air Balloon Ghold does wall, but there is now immense pressure on you to keep its Air Balloon intact, as once it pops, Gliscor can shit in Ghold’s mouth; your opponent is going to try their absolute hardest to pop it. And if it has Knock Off, you’re done for.

All this shows is that gholdengo can at worst, soft check Gliscor, as it doesn't care about facade+e-quake variants if it has air balloon intact, and can hex it if gliscor is low.

196 SpA Dragapult Hex (130 BP) vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 150-177 (42.6 - 50.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal
0 Atk Gliscor Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 170-202 (53.6 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Gliscor Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 114-136 (35.9 - 42.9%) -- guaranteed 3KO

Dragapult 100% does not want to stay in against this thing, it is more often than not 2KOed by Knock Off and is guaranteed to be stalled out by Toxic.

So, this is saying that gliscor has to be at full health in order to actually take on Dragapult reliably, so yeah, I would say Dragapult is a decent answer to it.

132 SpA Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 112-133 (31.8 - 37.7%) -- 69.6% chance to 4HKO after Poison Heal
252 SpA Quark Drive Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 160-189 (45.4 - 53.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal Nobody uses this shit

Idk why you are switching iron moth into gliscor in the first place, but fine. Let's say Iron Moth decides to tera on the e-quake in order to hurt it.
132 SpA Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 112-133 (31.8 - 37.7%) -- 69.6% chance to 4HKO after Poison Heal
+1 132 SpA Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 169-199 (48 - 56.5%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal
0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 124 Def Tera Ground Iron Moth: 130-154 (43.1 - 51.1%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO
Now yes, Gliscor can technically beat iron moth. But 1. Nobody was saying iron moth was a great answer into gliscor and 2. It does fine enough as with some chip, it beats Gliscor (yes, it does have to roll the dice with fiery dance, but when you play iron moth, you accept that you have to gamble with it).

252 Atk Protosynthesis Roaring Moon Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 174-205 (49.4 - 58.2%) -- 11.7% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal
252 Atk Protosynthesis Roaring Moon Knock Off vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 117-138 (33.2 - 39.2%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Protosynthesis Roaring Moon Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 131-155 (37.2 - 44%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

RM cannot reliably break Gliscor without Tera or DD, and, just like with everything else, can be Toxic stalled or have its boosts matched by Gliscor.

Why are you not dd'ing with roaring moon lol? Like, this just feels wrong. Roaring moon can even survive one +2 e-quake from full, so not dd'ing on it is weird.
+2 0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Roaring Moon: 273-322 (77.7 - 91.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
And if you do dd, hey, you beat gliscor.
+1 252 Atk Protosynthesis Roaring Moon Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 261-307 (74.1 - 87.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
+1 252 Atk Protosynthesis Tera Flying Roaring Moon Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 295-348 (83.8 - 98.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
Also toxic gliscor is a lot less threatening, so idk why we are mentioning it for that.

252 SpA Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 130-154 (36.9 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
(This does more damage than item boosted Knock Off btw) 252 Atk Iron Valiant Close Combat vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 78-93 (22.1 - 26.4%) -- 12.8% chance to 4HKO
0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Valiant: 112-133 (38.7 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Ival 100% needs to boost and be quite healthy in order to break it. Encore is a good way to annoy the bat but it can Protect itself from Encore and switch out if it thinks you’ll Encore again. It should be noted that not every Ival runs Encore or boosting moves. Gliscor can easily SD or Toxic; even if it gets Encored, Toxic variants in particular put Ival on a short timer.

Most valiant do run encore, with maybe mixed variants, d-bond variants and some boosting variants that really want coverage (but that's usually sd variants, which will pack ice punch as the third coverage option) not running it. Encore is a perfectably good way as gliscor either has to protect (risks getting set up on and now you have to deal with boosted valiant) or attack (and get encored into sd, so you still get a free turn). Also SD variants can, and do run ice punch, which slams landorus too.
252 Atk Iron Valiant Ice Punch vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 264-312 (75 - 88.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
Yeah, good luck attacking valiant, especially since +2 e-quake doesn't OHKO in return.
+2 0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Valiant: 225-265 (77.8 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Encore on Sam is a meme.

In my entire time of playing Gen 9 OU I have literally never once seen a Samurott running Encore (Taunt as well, for that matter) despite it being listed on the Strategy Pokedex. Is it just a super high ladder thing? Is it something that USED to be common? And it's kind of suboptimal because you'll be using it less than something like Sucker Punch or Flip Turn. Samurott is quite slow as well, if you want an Encore user then Ival or Wogerpon is better. Dragonite is a better Encore user as well because it's fat.

Okay, this shows you know absolutely nothing about Hamurott. Encore is a very viable option on Hamurott, as it can use encore to get free turns in order to click Ceaseless edge, and helps it against fatter teams (not that hamurott struggles against them). Yes, its not used often because other options are also really good, but saying its a meme is straight up ignorant. It is something that you will consider on hamurott (I personally like it on lead variants, as Glimmora and Lando have to switch out now, which means something is getting hit hard).

240 Atk Landorus-Therian Stone Edge vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 94-111 (26.7 - 31.5%) -- possible 5HKO

Self explanatory.

Yeah, its self explantory that you wouldn't be using Landorus T against Gliscor unless you had tera blast Ice on it, because only dummys would do that.

252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 235-277 (66.7 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
-2 252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 118-139 (33.5 - 39.4%) -- 98.5% chance to 4HKO after Poison Heal

Self-explanatory. Become setup fodder and get knocked off. Assuming that you don’t miss.

252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Dragon Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 314-370 (89.2 - 105.1%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
Yes, you have to tera in order to threaten an OHKO, but that's still something you can do.
Also gliscor has to keep itself pretty healthy (not going to always be the case) in order to actually take on dragapult.

252+ Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor in Grassy Terrain: 151-178 (42.8 - 50.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal
252+ Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Wood Hammer vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor in Grassy Terrain: 325-384 (92.3 - 109%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
+2 0 Atk Gliscor Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rillaboom: 145-171 (42.5 - 50.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
+2 0 Atk Gliscor Facade (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rillaboom: 209-246 (61.2 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

Grassy Glide cannot 2KO, making you setup or Toxic fodder. If you risk recoil damage just to get rid of Gliscor then that’s only a testament to how broken it is.

My brother in christ, what? Saying that using one of your strongest moves in order to get rid of gliscor is a testament to how broken it is, is at the end of the day, incredibly silly.
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Grass Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor in Grassy Terrain: 202-238 (57.3 - 67.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
Also, this shows how Gliscor actually can't stay in reliably, as it has to stay at full health in order to avoid being threatened by it. And if I'm removing one of my opponents best offensive/defensive mons (just like any mon that is simply good), then I will take the recoil damage.

220 Atk Choice Band Roaring Moon Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 195-231 (55.3 - 65.6%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal
220 Atk Choice Band Roaring Moon Knock Off vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 132-156 (37.5 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
220 Atk Choice Band Roaring Moon Outrage vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 241-285 (68.4 - 80.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Roaring Moon Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 261-307 (74.1 - 87.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
252 Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Roaring Moon Knock Off vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 175-207 (49.7 - 58.8%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Roaring Moon Outrage vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 322-379 (91.4 - 107.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

Do people still use this set? Anyways you have to go with the nuclear option on Sun if you want to take it down. Even then, it still has the opportunity to Toxic.

Nobody uses this set outside of sun. Stop using sets nobody uses to invent ways to say Gliscor is broken.

Choice Band Samurott-H is a meme and so is Choice Band Meowscarada and Choice Specs Raging Neck.

Yeah, no. Choice Band Hamurott is a niche pick, but still a decent one as tera dark ceaseless edge hits really fucking hard. Choice Band Meowscarada is also niche, but it does rip through defensive teams as nothing really likes switching into it. I personally don't like Choice Specs Raging Bolt, but it certainely isn't a meme set, its got explosive power that nothing can really match.

Also don't forget CB Dragonite, specs Kyurem and Specs Crown, they all do well against Gliscor.

252 SpA Life Orb Glimmora Power Gem vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 152-179 (43.1 - 50.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal

This is a set I cooked in response to missing Meteor Beam too often. Needless to say it doesn’t do much, but if you put this into the calculator it does some insane stuff like 2KOing the metal birds so the fact that Gliscor can survive this very well is yet another indictment against it.

252 SpA Life Orb Glimmora Power Gem vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Corviknight: 136-161 (34 - 40.3%) -- 46.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
I think we should be fairly comparing mons, as so we should use specially defensive corviknight, which in that case, it absolutely lives the hit.
252 SpA Life Orb Glimmora Power Gem vs. 244 HP / 16 SpD Gliscor: 211-250 (59.9 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
And if its physically defensive gliscor, good luck lol.

252 SpA Life Orb Darkrai Dark Pulse vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 153-183 (43.4 - 51.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal

This assumes that Gliscor has either Teraed or you’re deliberately hiding Ice Beam in order to surprise it. But yeah, the fact that it can easily survive the STAB of one of the best special attackers in the game to the point that some idiots want it banned is yet another indictment against the bat.

Sure, that shows gliscor tanking that hit decently well, but it still isn't exactly shrugging off the hit. With flinches in the picture, it could get dicey.
Also if you do calc ice beam, it obliterates Gliscor.

252 Atk Life Orb Roaring Moon Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 175-207 (49.7 - 58.8%) -- 11.7% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal
252 Atk Life Orb Roaring Moon Knock Off vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 117-138 (33.2 - 39.2%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO
220 Atk Life Orb Roaring Moon Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 169-200 (48 - 56.8%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal
220 Atk Life Orb Roaring Moon Knock Off vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 114-136 (32.3 - 38.6%) -- 98.7% chance to 3HKO

If you’re tired of needing to wait to DD (I know that I am), you can try this out. Except it still can’t break the bat.

I mean, idk why you aren't using DD moon, its a great set and the main reason why you use it. So please use DD moon.
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Roaring Moon Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 261-308 (74.1 - 87.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
Oops, guess gliscor is in trouble.

This brings me back to my earlier point about how many previously reliable checks have fallen off greatly. Most Ice Beam users sans Kyurem and Glowking are very low in usage and weak to other metagame staples, some of which such as Garg or Mola are frequently paired with Gliscor.

252 SpA Kyurem Freeze-Dry vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Tera Water Gliscor: 204-242 (57.9 - 68.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

Though a suboptimal option, Gliscor can Tera to avoid an OKO from Kyurem. It can easily get off a Toxic and switch into a resist. Kyurem does force out Gliscor, but positioning it to do so is actually quite difficult if it’s not carrying HDB (a well known power limiter). It does NOT enjoy Knock Off or Facade or Earthquake.

That's fine. You forced tera at worst, and they still have to switch out. Gliscor's main thing is that its completely immune to hazards, and tera'ing into another type means it isn't immune to spikes, so you've won that exchange.

144+ SpA Slowking-Galar Ice Beam vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 312-368 (88.6 - 104.5%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

I really don’t know why you would ever switch a Glowking into Gliscor but there you go. The fact that Gliscor even has a chance of surviving this, let alone over a 2/3 chance, really tells you all that you need to know.

The reason why you use Ice Beam on Glowking is to make sure Gliscor doesn't get a free opportunity at setting up. At that role, its doing great damage. Also saying "look how its survives this hit, tells you all that you really need to know" is not helpful at all, there are probably tons of weird calcs out there showing mons surviving dumb hits, so gliscor doing it isn't really the end of the world.

Darkrai and Deoxys-Fast (calcs not necessary) are invalidated by Tera and cannot break Gliscor without boosting which it can easily match or Toxic Stall out. UUvile and FRAUDscarada get Protected on and then Gliscor switches into something that beats it.

252 SpA Darkrai Ice Beam vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 360-424 (102.2 - 120.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Darkrai Dark Pulse vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 237-280 (67.3 - 79.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
+2 0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Darkrai: 225-265 (80 - 94.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-Speed Psycho Boost vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 212-251 (60.2 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
-2 252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-Speed Psycho Boost vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 107-126 (30.3 - 35.7%) -- 4.6% chance to 4HKO after Poison Heal
252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-Speed Ice Beam vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 364-432 (103.4 - 122.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-Speed Superpower vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Tera Normal Gliscor: 174-205 (49.4 - 58.2%) -- 10.2% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal
These seem like pretty important calcs, as Gliscor doesn't like taking there hits too much. And again, if Gliscor tera's, then you still have forced there hand in order to expend one of there most important resources.

Also please stop with the silly nicknames, its not funny or cool, its just frankly annoying.
252 Atk Weavile Triple Axel (120 BP) (3 hits) vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 604-716 (171.5 - 203.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 240-283 (68.1 - 80.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
252 Atk Protean Meowscarada Triple Axel (120 BP) (3 hits) vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 572-684 (162.5 - 194.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Also the weavile/meowscarada can simply just click knock off when gliscor switches, which means something is going to be hurt (also not much wants to take there hits, only really mola off the top of my head loves switching into weavile's stabs).

I don’t even know why I’m giving this my attention. It was a moot point against Kyurem and it’s a moot point here. If you’re actually using Tera Blast Ice on something I invite you to please reconsider your Gliscor answer. Offensive Tera Ice is useless except on Kyurem and UUVile and isn’t even used too often on them.

252 SpA Tera Ice Serperior Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 324-384 (92 - 109%) -- 50% chance to OHKO fucking lmao

Wow, a mon that can't hit fire and steel types wants to use a move which means it still can't hit fire and steel types for even neutral damage....
If you are going to be using a tera blast ice calc, use an actual real fucking set.
240 Atk Tera Ice Landorus-Therian Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 448-532 (127.2 - 151.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Tera Ice Glimmora Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 468-552 (132.9 - 156.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO (I've seen this on meteor beam sets, and trust me, I wish this move wasn't real on glimmora)
252 Atk Tera Ice Cinderace Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 388-460 (110.2 - 130.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Tera Ice Hydrapple Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 360-424 (102.2 - 120.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
So yeah, these are some real calcs that actually show how tera blast ice works against Gliscor. Ofc, Gliscor can protect on that turn and/or tera into another typing, so it isn't the best thing, but its still there. Also its not a moot point, and using it can be part of your strategy to deal with gliscor. Tera blast ice can lure in and destroy gliscor (and the many other ice weak mons in the tier, such as Landorus, Tusk, Raging Bolt, and every ground type) in order for teammates that might struggle against said mons, to be able to sweep much easier.

Another moot point because of Earthquake. Even Garg doesn’t generally want to switch in on Gliscor due to the risk of Knock Off, much like Gholdengo. Tera Poison is the same thing.

Yeah sure, not a lot of mons don't like switching into toxic+e-quake, but that means its not SD, and non SD Gliscor is so much easier to deal with. Garganacl doesn't like switching into knock off, but that probably means Gliscor is either not spikes (so they need a teammate to set up those layers) or not toxic (way easier for multiple mons to switch in). If you can identify that it isn't knock off (which you will do over the course of the game), then both air ballooon ghold and garg are relatively good switchins (garganacl can set up curses or tera, which garg ordinarily does).

+1 252 SpA Glimmora Meteor Beam vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 261-307 (74.1 - 87.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal The opposing Gliscor avoided the attack! Gliscor used Earthquake!

Idk why you are switching in glimmora on Gliscor, unless you decided to tera. Also stop with this "but move might miss because its 90% accurate", it most likely will hit and it missing is unfortunate, and doesn't really make something broken because of that.

252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Ivy Cudgel vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 296-350 (84 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

Frankly, she’s the only one that can reliably beat every Gliscor set offensively. With STABs and Superpower and Play Rough for coverage, Gliscor does not want to switch into this thing. Even then, however, she can’t OKO without SR chip, Poison Jab isn’t unheard of, and Superpower’s defense drop can leave her vulnerable if Gliscor survives. Ironically, Ogerbroad is a very good partner for Gliscor, soaking up (no pun intended) Water attacks that threaten the bat.

Yeah, waterpon is pretty good against gliscor. It can also pack encore, which shuts it down hard. Poison Jab Gliscor is almost exclusively to stall, which waterpon still can do well against, and superpower isn't even used on waterpon at all, so idk why you are even mentioning it here (the last time it was seriously used was during arch meta). Also sure, waterpon is a good partner to gliscor, but they do have some anti synergy as Gliscor loves to avoid hazards, while waterpon hates them, meaning that you will have to pack hazard removal on said team.

Substitutes, Aurora Veil, and Dual Screens

Heavily matchup dependent as can be seen with Iron Moth and it’s basically required to be already set up before Gliscor comes in, which is hard to do because of its longevity and offensive and defensive pressure. Grimmsnarl and Alolan Ninetales in particular are huge momentum sinks that can allow Gliscor to set up.

Idk why you are mentioning aurora veil and dual screens, because those are really not great in this meta (also what, grimmsnarl just parting shots on gliscor and a-tales threatens it with freeze dry for decent damage or encores it into setup/protect).

Weather and Terrain Teams

Also heavily matchup dependent. Sand (who plays sand unironically) fuck all against Gliscor unless Tyranitar is carrying Ice Beam. Sun is… okay against Gliscor? Rain SHOULD do well, but Gliscor teams usually are prepared for it, same with Grassy Terrain. GT in particular is good against only defensive variants thanks to EQ getting shitcanned but isn’t too good against SD variants.

Most Ttar do run ice beam lol, it also hits tusk and lando-t for good damage, so idk what variants wouldn't. Sun is great against Gliscor, as it can't really switch in at all against the powerful offensive threats sun has. If it does get in, it can potentially stall out a few turns of it, but again, good luck switching in Gliscor. Rain teams do well against Gliscor, and saying that the teams prepare well for it isn't really in its favour. It has to tera water in order to actually wall stuff, and then its weak to the electric type of choice (bolt, zapdos or thundy-t usually, though bellibolt is also used) main stab option. G-terrain teams do not struggle against gliscor, as there is a certain mon that carries encore that even has a defense boost from it and switches into knock or e-quake. Its called hawlucha. Use that mon. Hawlucha can usually get a free sd on gliscor, and that can be deadly late game. Serperior and grassy seed ghold also sit on it.

Taunt

Taunt does not shut down a boosted Gliscor because it can just begin attacking and have a reasonable chance of KOing. Taunting is also reliant on being fast, and moreover, Gliscor can easily scout for Taunt using Protect. At most, Taunt forces Gliscor out, but there is now immense pressure for you to keep your Taunt user alive. Taunt is usable, but giving up an entire move slot for it limits what that mon can do, especially if for some reason you have more than one Taunt user.

Encore

Same as above, but a bit more reliable, but also more scoutable and predictable.

These aren't the only solutions to Gliscor, but they do help against it. Taunt means that it can't toxic your mon (so taunt great tusk is a completely free answer to it) and it can't potentially protect or sd up more. Encore forces Gliscor into annoying 50/50s of "do I attack, or do I switch", most encore users have ways to exert pressure on teams, whether by setting up or just dealing big damage, so this is a viable part of the strategy to beat Gliscor.

Walls AKA Ice Type Coverage Part 2

All of the above have been offensive answers, but what about defensive ones? Well, defensive answers to Gliscor are shaky. The steel birds and defensive Great Tusk wall it, but other physical walls such as Dondozo and Garganacl require Curse in order to match SDs. They can usually wall out Toxic variants through status immunity, but lose to SD. Dondozo in particular does not like Gliscor as it can SD on Resting turns. Avalanche is usable, but uncommon, and you’re giving up either Waterfall or BP or Sleep Talk (lmao) in order to use it, and all of those are staple Dozo moves. Same thing with Ice Beam Blissey or CleFEEBLE. Only Stored Power Unaware sets can reliably answer Gliscor. Stored Power Magic Guard loses to SD. Glowking cannot answer Gliscor without Ice Beam. Lando can Intimidate, but Gliscor can boost past it. If it doesn’t have Taunt, it’s kind of dead weight.

0 Atk Great Tusk Ice Spinner vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 232-276 (65.9 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal Tusk obviously wins, this is just included to show how fucking bulky Gliscor is
0 SpA Clefable Ice Beam vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 220-260 (62.5 - 73.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal Works, but kind of a waste
0 SpA Slowking-Galar Ice Beam vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 248-296 (70.4 - 84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal Please just use the AV set if you’re going to try this
0 Atk Dondozo Waterfall vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 138-164 (39.2 - 46.5%) -- 82.6% chance to 3HKO after Poison Heal You’re most likely going to need to Rest or risk death
0 Atk Dondozo Avalanche vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 140-168 (39.7 - 47.7%) -- 94.6% chance to 3HKO after Poison Heal I really thought this would do more
0 Atk Dondozo Avalanche vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 276-328 (78.4 - 93.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal Still can’t OKO
0 Atk Garganacl Salt Cure vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 34-42 (9.6 - 11.9%) -- possible 9HKO Salt Cure at most neutralizes Poison Heal. You need Ice Punch in order to actually do anything to Gliscor.

Okay, I don't think you know about Dondozo's ability. Have you heard about it? Its called unaware. It ignores all defensive and offensive stat boosts from the enemy. Dondozo literally does not give a shit about whether Gliscor is at neutral or +6, it still does the same damage. I seriously can't believe I'm having to explain this shit, this is something everybody besides primary schoolers should know. I hope to god this is baiting, cause if its not, I don't think you have any right to speak at all on whether Gliscor is broken or not.
As for your other ones, sure, Garganacl has to use curse, but it also commonly tera's into a neutral typing, and salt cure means it can stop Gliscor from recovering its hp and eventually garg can get to +6.
+2 0 Atk Gliscor Facade (140 BP) vs. +1 252 HP / 52 Def Tera Water Garganacl: 98-116 (24.2 - 28.7%) -- possible 6HKO
Mono Avalanche dondozo is something you do see on stall, as it can help a lot against taunt moon, and hits waterpon while also not giving dragapult free entry.
Ice Beam Blissey is moreso to stop Gliscor from setting up completely on it (though flamethrower and s-ball are a lot better), while Clefable can use it to chunk gliscor switching in to it. Stored power clefable sets are mostly memes meant to cheese lower ladder players who don't have a way to get through boost sweepers. Also congratulations, Glowking can't answer Gliscor without Ice beam, it can still chilly reception. Yes, lando can't beat Gliscor if its not taunt (most are taunt though), but its more a temporary response in order to get a teammate in that will be able to threaten it out.

I find this argument to be disingenuous because it’s actually a good argument for something being broken. If you have to reach into lower tiers and their respective BLs to find a consistent answer to a Pokemon then it is broken because that means it has already well adapted to metagame staples. Poopa Unbound and Ice Punch Iron Hands can both reliably deal with Gliscor for example, but they are very difficult to justify using even on the few team structures that they fit on. In fact, if Gliscor manages to survive Hyperspace Fury, it can cripple Hoopa with Toxic or KO back with Facade. It’s like suggesting that you should use Basc-F to beat Zamazenta, it works in a vacuum, but not really in practice. Neutralizing Gas Geezing (I don’t even know why I’m mentioning it) 100% does not want to stay in to take Earthquakes, and Latios/as hate Knock Off.

I'm sorry, but this is dumb. Good players use lower tier mons all the time, and that's completely fine. Slither Wing was used in OLT Finals and yet is RU. You can use mons such as Iron Hands or Hoopa Unbound (please stop using the nicknames, its incredibly annoying) if they fit well with your team. Most Hoopa's use psychic noise, which stops gliscor from healing and doing a solid chunk, and outdamages hyperspace fury.
N-gas geezing can't directly switch into gliscor, but it does shut off Poison Heal, which means that with strange steam + poison chip, gliscor will be incredibly low health, meaning most times gliscor will switch out.
Latias is incredibly fringe, but latios can just draco metoer/psychic noise it into oblivion, with tera steel kinda sitting on gliscor entirely.

Basically nothing wants to switch into Gliscor for three reasons: Toxic, Longevity, and Set Variety.

Nothing can really switch into every Gliscor set, that is true, but most mons can switch into multiple of its sets. The metal birds can switch into every set actually, so they are pretty good. Many mons (such as Mola, Tusk, Landorus, Sinistcha) can switch into most, if not all SD sets.

Switching into Gliscor is a gamble against a Toxic miss or a failed Protect, forcing frustrating 50/50s several times throughout the course of a match. Unlike Kyurem or Great Tusk it is very difficult to tell what Gliscor is going to do based on team structure. Balance and BO and Hazard Stack alike all get monumental utility from both SD and Spikes sets. As a result, you simply can never have an idea of when it is safe to switch in. Bring in Ghold on a predicted EQ and get Knocked Off. Bring in Garg on a predicted Knock Off and get EQed. Between Toxic and the three attacks that can be viably run, all of them will make great progress no matter what. Gliscor has several opportunities to do what it wants thanks to mindgames and its built in qualities.

If its SD Gliscor, they probably will have some sort of spikes user. If the team has a Skamory (a common partner to SD Gliscor), you can make good judgement that it will be SD Gliscor. If it doesn't, yes, that might be more scary, but typically SD Gliscor are a lot less threatening. So you absolutely can determine the set from team preview, its simply more just "does it have knock off, facade or e-quake" which is the difficult part, which good scouting can alleviate.

ZapKingLu is an infamous name, and while it’s fallen off in viability, as an idea, “ZapKingLu”, referring to an asinine playstyle of passive fat balance that relies on frequent switching, is still very much alive. In fact, I’d argue that GlisKingLu is the new passive meta threat. Substitute Glowking for a stallmon of your choice. Garganacl or Alomomola preferably for maximum annoyance. These options were previously unavailable to Gliscor, but now it can pair with other asinine options to form cores and team structures that are simply insipid.

Gliscor itself is one of the best mons into these ZapKingLu structures, so if you are going fearmonger about something, please fearmonger correctly at least. Also GlisKingLu is literally BU tusk fodder, with only alolomola on your supposed team structure (maybe it is, but I haven't seen it really). Also substitute Glowking does not beat stall (or is not a stall mon, if that's where you are going with it) as it struggles to fit the move and blissey sits on it entirely.

I think it’s already well known that Gliscor is a premier Tera abuser, but much like its other traits I think it’s important to restate it.

I have neglected to mention Tera up until now (with as limited exceptions as possible) because Gliscor is great without Tera. Oftentimes it doesn’t even need to Tera in order to win a game. But if it does, you’re usually going to get swept or stalled. Tera Normal sets can easily get a free turn to set up against Hex users and completely shut them down by becoming a reliable switch-in. Tera Water sets can do the same in order to get a free opportunity to attack.

Gliscor is better at beating is checks than ever before, and it uses Tera better than any other mon by virtue of requiring either boosted or repeated supereffective hits to eliminate. Sound familiar?

Gliscor’s sheer bulk also often forces Teras from opposing Pokemon, which it can easily sponge up.

132 SpA Tera Grass Iron Moth Energy Ball vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 127-150 (36 - 42.6%) -- 2.1% chance to 3HKO after Poison Heal Gliscor used Toxic!
0 Atk Gliscor Facade (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Flying Glimmora: 106-125 (34.5 - 40.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO This set can beat Gliscor but it is VERY situational and Gliscor can heavily damage it if it outspeeds Glimmora or use Toxic

I did not mention Tera up until now because it is very matchup dependent and can easily be matched by Gliscor. If a Pokemon can force Tera’s this often and still have a chance of beating them, it is profoundly unhealthy. We saw this with Gouging Faceplate.

Gliscor is a great user of tera, but commonly, it doesn't want to use it until late game. That's because its base typing is so good plus it then becomes weak to the hazards it commonly is immune to. Tera'ing Gliscor comes with a big risk, and usually only occurs if its sure it will sweep/hazards will be kept off, which as we all know, isn't something guarenteed.
These mons that use tera in order to flip there Gliscor matchup commonly do it if they think they can beat Gliscor.

Gliscor is a great balance breaker and simultaneously great for balance. This would be healthy for the metagame if it wasn’t for the fact that the entire matchup revolves around Gliscor. If you have a Gliscor, and the other guy doesn’t, the matchup is in your favor. If you don’t have a Gliscor and the other guy does, the matchup is in his favor. If both of you have a Gliscor, then you get a brainless mirror match.

Gliscor is indeed good against fat but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s absolutely asinine on fat cores. Lots of broken threats are able to guarantee progress against fat teams, doesn’t mean that they also can’t be broken on fat teams.

We shouldn't care whether or not mons are great for specific playstyles, we should ban them because of that. Also a non-Gliscor team vs a Gliscor Team doesn't have the advantage necessarily, if the opposing team has mons which can account for Gliscor, then it still can be in there favour potential.

I will preface this by stating that I sincerely do not believe that stall deserves as much consideration in tiering decisions as other playstyles. This is not because it is frustrating to play against, but rather for three reasons: it is a niche playstyle, it is radically different from all other playstyles, and it is limited in the scope of variety that it can have.

Yeah, this arguement is probably one of the stupidest ones you have. Stall absolutely deserves to have as much consideration in tiering decisions, as like it or not, it is a major playstyle. Also saying its limited in the scope of variety it can have, then showing how somebody reached top 100 with a monopoison stall team (shoutouts to the goat Delibird Heart), is comical.

If you thought that the Shadow Kyurem was scary, wait until you see what Gliscor is capable of. Tera Poison Poison Jab sets can easily take down Ogerpon and have the natural bulk to survive Earthquakes (assuming an EQ user is still alive); if Mola is running Tera Flying Acrobatics then this really isn’t outside of the realm of possibility

Not real set, and never will be real. Good luck fitting p-jab on your set reliably. Going to have to drop an important move like knock, facade or e-quake and probably get walled by something still. Mola ran it for a brief period of time to actually damage waterpon, but that was during DLC1 and tera flying was still good on it in order to wall Zama and others.

Who’s to say that Tera Fairy isn’t coming next? Meanwhile, Tera Dragon is making a resurgence with the bans of several Dragon types in conjunction with the fall-offs of Ice types and Ice coverage users; in a pinch, the bat can even Tera Dragon to survive an Ice attack.

Tera dragon is a decent tera type, but I doubt tera fairy would be all that great. What exactly does it give you lol? A dragon immunity? That's honestly the only thing I can think of.

This is obscene. It can use Toxic on basically anything due to its bulk, making progress no matter what, and can SD in the face of a lot of things.

On the offensive side, we’ve seen horrifying new mutations take place such as 658Greninja’s U-Turn sets and a new Double Dance set. Tera Poison can also be used offensively. I don’t think those sets need much elaboration. Oh, and literally none of this post mentions EV spreads which are a whole different beast.

Toxic sets are a lot less threatening, as they commonly don't have the breaking power SD sets have and are honestly, pretty passive against certain targets. U-turn is niche for a reason, Gliscor heavily struggles to fit it into its moveset, as its going to be dropping something important. Again, tera poison isn't good. Double dance sets also are only mid, as they usually have to drop protect, which means it can't scout the opponents options as easily.
Also the EV spreads come with there own drawbacks. Fast scor is quite frail on the special side while not having immense physical bulk, and phys. defense scor can't take special hits while not outspeeding too much offensively.

TLDR, your whole long ass paragraph is extremely dumb, and you haven't really proven why Gliscor is broken besides some bad examples. If you are going to argue about Gliscor being broken, give good points, not these horrible examples of Tera Blast Ice serperior and that "you shouldn't use lower tier mons, otherwise that shows a mon is broken"

 

[UltraSword]

The most prominent part of an unholy quartet keeping the game from finally being fun again and if I could pick only one member of those four to be eliminated it would be this one.

I think that in order to understand why Gliscor is still broken we must first review the qualities that it has as a reminder of just exactly what we are dealing with here.

Gliscor has, in a nutshell, Leftovers on steroids combined with status immunity and, at least pre-Tera, a veritable immunity to hazards since it doesn't take damage from Spikes and takes neutral damage from Stealth Rock that it can just heal back in one turn. Combined with one of the best defensive typings in the game and well-rounded stats, the little bastard has remained not only relevant but outright dominant in the face of overwhelming powercreep. Now, it's been considered fine before, so what's breaking it (it's not just Tera)?

This Was Not Part Of The Plan

Several counters touted as reliable checks, are--shocker--not as reliable as they may seem. Many checks that were previously prominent such as Weavile, Meowscarada, Serperior, Deoxys-Fast, and Skarmory have fallen or are projected to fall to UU. In addition, even mons that are reliably OU still have trouble breaking through it. I will be going over a few of them.

Psychic Noise Users

The three most prominent Psychic Noise users in the tier absolutely do NOT want to switch into Gliscor. EQ is the go-to move for the singular attack on defensive sets, Iron Crown and Glowking do not like that, and Primarina's physical frailty means that it can switch in once at most, unless it has Draining Kiss in which case you can switch in twice or thrice; Primarina also has to contend with her Psychic Noise not being STAB, and Liquid Voice, while reliable in beating the bat, is a suboptimal choice due to being unable to hit Poison types supereffectively. To top it all off, Gliscor moves first against Primarina.

0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Crown: 206-246 (64.1 - 76.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 16 Def Slowking-Galar: 242-288 (61.4 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Primarina: 133-157 (41.4 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Even if it lacks Earthquake for some reason, all of these three and more are ripped to pieces by Salt Cure (more on that later). Primarina can be easily defeated by Toxic.

Hex Users

Depending on the set, Hex users range from being okay to being utter dead weight against Gliscor. Functionally, they can't actually inflict status on it, and Gliscor's sheer bulk, independently of being physically or specially invested, makes it an uphill battle to actually get rid of it.

0 SpA Gholdengo Hex (130 BP) vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 159-187 (45.1 - 53.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal
0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 196+ Def Gholdengo: 162-192 (42.8 - 50.7%) -- 2.7% chance to 2HKO

Air Balloon Ghold does wall, but there is now immense pressure on you to keep its Air Balloon intact, as once it pops, Gliscor can shit in Ghold’s mouth; your opponent is going to try their absolute hardest to pop it. And if it has Knock Off, you’re done for.

196 SpA Dragapult Hex (130 BP) vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 150-177 (42.6 - 50.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal
0 Atk Gliscor Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 170-202 (53.6 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Gliscor Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 114-136 (35.9 - 42.9%) -- guaranteed 3KO

Dragapult 100% does not want to stay in against this thing, it is more often than not 2KOed by Knock Off and is guaranteed to be stalled out by Toxic. Choice Band Dragapult is a meme

General Offensive Threats

132 SpA Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 112-133 (31.8 - 37.7%) -- 69.6% chance to 4HKO after Poison Heal
252 SpA Quark Drive Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 160-189 (45.4 - 53.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal Nobody uses this shit
0 Atk Gliscor Facade (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 124 Def Iron Moth: 122-144 (40.5 - 47.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

I don’t even need to calculate what Gliscor can do back. Substitute shenanigans are irrelevant because the bat can just mash EQ until you run out of HP.

252 Atk Protosynthesis Roaring Moon Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 174-205 (49.4 - 58.2%) -- 11.7% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal
252 Atk Protosynthesis Roaring Moon Knock Off vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 117-138 (33.2 - 39.2%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Protosynthesis Roaring Moon Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 131-155 (37.2 - 44%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

RM cannot reliably break Gliscor without Tera or DD, and, just like with everything else, can be Toxic stalled or have its boosts matched by Gliscor.

252 SpA Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 130-154 (36.9 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
(This does more damage than item boosted Knock Off btw) 252 Atk Iron Valiant Close Combat vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 78-93 (22.1 - 26.4%) -- 12.8% chance to 4HKO
0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Valiant: 112-133 (38.7 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Ival 100% needs to boost and be quite healthy in order to break it. Encore is a good way to annoy the bat but it can Protect itself from Encore and switch out if it thinks you’ll Encore again. It should be noted that not every Ival runs Encore or boosting moves. Gliscor can easily SD or Toxic; even if it gets Encored, Toxic variants in particular put Ival on a short timer.

252 Atk Sharpness Samurott-Hisui Razor Shell vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 258-306 (73.2 - 86.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO The opposing Gliscor avoided the attack!
252 Atk Sharpness Samurott-Hisui Aqua Cutter vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 242-288 (68.7 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Samurott-Hisui: 124-147 (38.6 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 0 Atk Gliscor Facade (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Samurott-Hisui: 232-273 (72.2 - 85%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Gliscor U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Samurott-Hisui: 116-138 (36.1 - 42.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO Thank you 658Greninja for giving us this abomination of a set!

Admittedly, and surprisingly, this is the most reliable Gliscor check that isn’t an outright counter, as it 100% does not want to take a Knock Off followed by a super effective Razor Shell. That being said, max speed SD sets can easily nuke Sam with Facade, as well as the rare U-Turn. Sam absolutely does not want to switch in on a boosted Gliscor, and while Gliscor does not want to switch in on it either, the uncommonly run U-Turn can very easily put Sam in a bad position. Encore on Sam is a meme.

240 Atk Landorus-Therian Stone Edge vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 94-111 (26.7 - 31.5%) -- possible 5HKO

Self explanatory.

Choice Items

252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 235-277 (66.7 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
-2 252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 118-139 (33.5 - 39.4%) -- 98.5% chance to 4HKO after Poison Heal

Self-explanatory. Become setup fodder and get knocked off. Assuming that you don’t miss.

252 Atk Choice Band Dragapult Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 186-222 (52.8 - 63%) -- approx. 77.7% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal Nobody uses this shit

If they can tell it’s banded damage, they can just click Knock Off or a rare Tera Fairy.

252+ Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor in Grassy Terrain: 151-178 (42.8 - 50.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal
252+ Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Wood Hammer vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor in Grassy Terrain: 325-384 (92.3 - 109%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
+2 0 Atk Gliscor Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rillaboom: 145-171 (42.5 - 50.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
+2 0 Atk Gliscor Facade (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rillaboom: 209-246 (61.2 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

Grassy Glide cannot 2KO, making you setup or Toxic fodder. If you risk recoil damage just to get rid of Gliscor then that’s only a testament to how broken it is.

220 Atk Choice Band Roaring Moon Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 195-231 (55.3 - 65.6%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal
220 Atk Choice Band Roaring Moon Knock Off vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 132-156 (37.5 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
220 Atk Choice Band Roaring Moon Outrage vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 241-285 (68.4 - 80.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Roaring Moon Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 261-307 (74.1 - 87.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
252 Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Roaring Moon Knock Off vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 175-207 (49.7 - 58.8%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Roaring Moon Outrage vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 322-379 (91.4 - 107.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

Do people still use this set? Anyways you have to go with the nuclear option on Sun if you want to take it down. Even then, it still has the opportunity to Toxic.

Choice Band Samurott-H is a meme and so is Choice Band Meowscarada and Choice Specs Raging Neck.

Life Orb

252 SpA Life Orb Glimmora Power Gem vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 152-179 (43.1 - 50.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal

This is a set I cooked in response to missing Meteor Beam too often. Needless to say it doesn’t do much, but if you put this into the calculator it does some insane stuff like 2KOing the metal birds so the fact that Gliscor can survive this very well is yet another indictment against it.

252 SpA Life Orb Darkrai Dark Pulse vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 153-183 (43.4 - 51.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal

This assumes that Gliscor has either Teraed or you’re deliberately hiding Ice Beam in order to surprise it. But yeah, the fact that it can easily survive the STAB of one of the best special attackers in the game to the point that some idiots want it banned is yet another indictment against the bat.

252 Atk Life Orb Roaring Moon Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 175-207 (49.7 - 58.8%) -- 11.7% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal
252 Atk Life Orb Roaring Moon Knock Off vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 117-138 (33.2 - 39.2%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO
220 Atk Life Orb Roaring Moon Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 169-200 (48 - 56.8%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal
220 Atk Life Orb Roaring Moon Knock Off vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 114-136 (32.3 - 38.6%) -- 98.7% chance to 3HKO

If you’re tired of needing to wait to DD (I know that I am), you can try this out. Except it still can’t break the bat.

252 Atk Life Orb Sharpness Samurott-Hisui Razor Shell vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 335-398 (95.1 - 113%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Sharpness Samurott-Hisui Aqua Cutter vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 315-374 (89.4 - 106.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

This is a set that exists, I guess. Still not guaranteed to kill but it’s there… and it can still be outsped.

Life Orb UUVile is a meme.

Ice Types and Ice Type Coverage

This brings me back to my earlier point about how many previously reliable checks have fallen off greatly. Most Ice Beam users sans Kyurem and Glowking are very low in usage and weak to other metagame staples, some of which such as Garg or Mola are frequently paired with Gliscor.

252 SpA Kyurem Freeze-Dry vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Tera Water Gliscor: 204-242 (57.9 - 68.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

Though a suboptimal option, Gliscor can Tera to avoid an OKO from Kyurem. It can easily get off a Toxic and switch into a resist. Kyurem does force out Gliscor, but positioning it to do so is actually quite difficult if it’s not carrying HDB (a well known power limiter). It does NOT enjoy Knock Off or Facade or Earthquake.

144+ SpA Slowking-Galar Ice Beam vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 312-368 (88.6 - 104.5%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

I really don’t know why you would ever switch a Glowking into Gliscor but there you go. The fact that Gliscor even has a chance of surviving this, let alone over a 2/3 chance, really tells you all that you need to know.

Darkrai and Deoxys-Fast (calcs not necessary) are invalidated by Tera and cannot break Gliscor without boosting which it can easily match or Toxic Stall out. UUvile and FRAUDscarada get Protected on and then Gliscor switches into something that beats it.

Tera Blast Ice

I don’t even know why I’m giving this my attention. It was a moot point against Kyurem and it’s a moot point here. If you’re actually using Tera Blast Ice on something I invite you to please reconsider your Gliscor answer. Offensive Tera Ice is useless except on Kyurem and UUVile and isn’t even used too often on them.

252 SpA Tera Ice Serperior Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 324-384 (92 - 109%) -- 50% chance to OHKO fucking lmao

Toxic-Immune Pokemon

Another moot point because of Earthquake. Even Garg doesn’t generally want to switch in on Gliscor due to the risk of Knock Off, much like Gholdengo. Tera Poison is the same thing.

Meteor Meme Glimmora

+1 252 SpA Glimmora Meteor Beam vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 261-307 (74.1 - 87.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal The opposing Gliscor avoided the attack! Gliscor used Earthquake!

Ogerbroad-Wellspring

252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Ivy Cudgel vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 296-350 (84 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

Frankly, she’s the only one that can reliably beat every Gliscor set offensively. With STABs and Superpower and Play Rough for coverage, Gliscor does not want to switch into this thing. Even then, however, she can’t OKO without SR chip, Poison Jab isn’t unheard of, and Superpower’s defense drop can leave her vulnerable if Gliscor survives. Ironically, Ogerbroad is a very good partner for Gliscor, soaking up (no pun intended) Water attacks that threaten the bat.

Substitutes, Aurora Veil, and Dual Screens

Heavily matchup dependent as can be seen with Iron Moth and it’s basically required to be already set up before Gliscor comes in, which is hard to do because of its longevity and offensive and defensive pressure. Grimmsnarl and Alolan Ninetales in particular are huge momentum sinks that can allow Gliscor to set up.

Weather and Terrain Teams

Also heavily matchup dependent. Sand (who plays sand unironically) fuck all against Gliscor unless Tyranitar is carrying Ice Beam. Sun is… okay against Gliscor? Rain SHOULD do well, but Gliscor teams usually are prepared for it, same with Grassy Terrain. GT in particular is good against only defensive variants thanks to EQ getting shitcanned but isn’t too good against SD variants.

Taunt

Taunt does not shut down a boosted Gliscor because it can just begin attacking and have a reasonable chance of KOing. Taunting is also reliant on being fast, and moreover, Gliscor can easily scout for Taunt using Protect. At most, Taunt forces Gliscor out, but there is now immense pressure for you to keep your Taunt user alive. Taunt is usable, but giving up an entire move slot for it limits what that mon can do, especially if for some reason you have more than one Taunt user.

Encore

Same as above, but a bit more reliable, but also more scoutable and predictable.

Walls AKA Ice Type Coverage Part 2

All of the above have been offensive answers, but what about defensive ones? Well, defensive answers to Gliscor are shaky. The steel birds and defensive Great Tusk wall it, but other physical walls such as Dondozo and Garganacl require Curse in order to match SDs. They can usually wall out Toxic variants through status immunity, but lose to SD. Dondozo in particular does not like Gliscor as it can SD on Resting turns. Avalanche is usable, but uncommon, and you’re giving up either Waterfall or BP or Sleep Talk (lmao) in order to use it, and all of those are staple Dozo moves. Same thing with Ice Beam Blissey or CleFEEBLE. Only Stored Power Unaware sets can reliably answer Gliscor. Stored Power Magic Guard loses to SD. Glowking cannot answer Gliscor without Ice Beam. Lando can Intimidate, but Gliscor can boost past it. If it doesn’t have Taunt, it’s kind of dead weight.

0 Atk Great Tusk Ice Spinner vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 232-276 (65.9 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal Tusk obviously wins, this is just included to show how fucking bulky Gliscor is
0 SpA Clefable Ice Beam vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 220-260 (62.5 - 73.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal Works, but kind of a waste
0 SpA Slowking-Galar Ice Beam vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 248-296 (70.4 - 84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal Please just use the AV set if you’re going to try this
0 Atk Dondozo Waterfall vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 138-164 (39.2 - 46.5%) -- 82.6% chance to 3HKO after Poison Heal You’re most likely going to need to Rest or risk death
0 Atk Dondozo Avalanche vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 140-168 (39.7 - 47.7%) -- 94.6% chance to 3HKO after Poison Heal I really thought this would do more
0 Atk Dondozo Avalanche vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 276-328 (78.4 - 93.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal Still can’t OKO
0 Atk Garganacl Salt Cure vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 34-42 (9.6 - 11.9%) -- possible 9HKO Salt Cure at most neutralizes Poison Heal. You need Ice Punch in order to actually do anything to Gliscor.

Just Use Niche Pokemon, Bro

I find this argument to be disingenuous because it’s actually a good argument for something being broken. If you have to reach into lower tiers and their respective BLs to find a consistent answer to a Pokemon then it is broken because that means it has already well adapted to metagame staples. Poopa Unbound and Ice Punch Iron Hands can both reliably deal with Gliscor for example, but they are very difficult to justify using even on the few team structures that they fit on. In fact, if Gliscor manages to survive Hyperspace Fury, it can cripple Hoopa with Toxic or KO back with Facade. It’s like suggesting that you should use Basc-F to beat Zamazenta, it works in a vacuum, but not really in practice. Neutralizing Gas Geezing (I don’t even know why I’m mentioning it) 100% does not want to stay in to take Earthquakes, and Latios/as hate Knock Off.

Go Ahead, Switch In, I Fucking Dare You

Basically nothing wants to switch into Gliscor for three reasons: Toxic, Longevity, and Set Variety.

Switching into Gliscor is a gamble against a Toxic miss or a failed Protect, forcing frustrating 50/50s several times throughout the course of a match. Unlike Kyurem or Great Tusk it is very difficult to tell what Gliscor is going to do based on team structure. Balance and BO and Hazard Stack alike all get monumental utility from both SD and Spikes sets. As a result, you simply can never have an idea of when it is safe to switch in. Bring in Ghold on a predicted EQ and get Knocked Off. Bring in Garg on a predicted Knock Off and get EQed. Between Toxic and the three attacks that can be viably run, all of them will make great progress no matter what. Gliscor has several opportunities to do what it wants thanks to mindgames and its built in qualities.

Gliscor And Friends

Gliscor on stall and fat structures is commonly paired with Blissey and other mons that we love to hate. It has been for some time, so what’s changed?

ZapKingLu is an infamous name, and while it’s fallen off in viability, as an idea, “ZapKingLu”, referring to an asinine playstyle of passive fat balance that relies on frequent switching, is still very much alive. In fact, I’d argue that GlisKingLu is the new passive meta threat. Substitute Glowking for a stallmon of your choice. Garganacl or Alomomola preferably for maximum annoyance. These options were previously unavailable to Gliscor, but now it can pair with other asinine options to form cores and team structures that are simply insipid.

The Great Tusk In The Room

I think it’s already well known that Gliscor is a premier Tera abuser, but much like its other traits I think it’s important to restate it.

I have neglected to mention Tera up until now (with as limited exceptions as possible) because Gliscor is great without Tera. Oftentimes it doesn’t even need to Tera in order to win a game. But if it does, you’re usually going to get swept or stalled. Tera Normal sets can easily get a free turn to set up against Hex users and completely shut them down by becoming a reliable switch-in. Tera Water sets can do the same in order to get a free opportunity to attack.

Gliscor is better at beating is checks than ever before, and it uses Tera better than any other mon by virtue of requiring either boosted or repeated supereffective hits to eliminate. Sound familiar?

Gliscor’s sheer bulk also often forces Teras from opposing Pokemon, which it can easily sponge up.

132 SpA Tera Grass Iron Moth Energy Ball vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 127-150 (36 - 42.6%) -- 2.1% chance to 3HKO after Poison Heal Gliscor used Toxic!
0 Atk Gliscor Facade (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Flying Glimmora: 106-125 (34.5 - 40.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO This set can beat Gliscor but it is VERY situational and Gliscor can heavily damage it if it outspeeds Glimmora or use Toxic

I did not mention Tera up until now because it is very matchup dependent and can easily be matched by Gliscor. If a Pokemon can force Tera’s this often and still have a chance of beating them, it is profoundly unhealthy. We saw this with Gouging Faceplate.

Schrödinger’s Bat: Part 1 - Tipping The Scales of Balance

Gliscor is a great balance breaker and simultaneously great for balance. This would be healthy for the metagame if it wasn’t for the fact that the entire matchup revolves around Gliscor. If you have a Gliscor, and the other guy doesn’t, the matchup is in your favor. If you don’t have a Gliscor and the other guy does, the matchup is in his favor. If both of you have a Gliscor, then you get a brainless mirror match.

Gliscor is indeed good against fat but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s absolutely asinine on fat cores. Lots of broken threats are able to guarantee progress against fat teams, doesn’t mean that they also can’t be broken on fat teams.

Schrödinger’s Bat: Part 2 - Stalling For Time

I will preface this by stating that I sincerely do not believe that stall deserves as much consideration in tiering decisions as other playstyles. This is not because it is frustrating to play against, but rather for three reasons: it is a niche playstyle, it is radically different from all other playstyles, and it is limited in the scope of variety that it can have. As a result of these traits, giving it equal consideration with other playstyles would introduce a myriad of unnecessary considerations and complications into tiering decisions. All things considered, I will be giving stall equal footing with other playstyles in an effort to be in good faith as possible.

Gliscor is good against stall and good on stall much like it is on fat teams. What makes this situation different is that Gliscor is a staple on stall teams. As a result of this, stall players have a vested interest in keeping Gliscor OU legal, and this would be a legitimate self-interest if Gliscor were only disgusting on stall teams. But it isn’t. Gliscor doesn’t just make stall insufferable, it makes any team it’s present on insufferable, both when used against stall and with stall.

I do not want Gliscor to be banned because it will hurt stall. You should not want Gliscor to be banned because it will hurt stall. Banning Gliscor will hurt stall, but it will not kill stall. It will have more effects than just hurting stall and those effects will be largely positive and that is why I will be voting to ban Gliscor and why I urge you to vote to ban Gliscor.

Some guy reached Top 100 with a monopoison stall team. Stall will not die if Gliscor gets banned because stall players are simply too fucking dedicated and will find new ways to keep stalling. There is a Google Document out there called “The Stall Bible” with many pages of obscenely detailed breakdowns on stallmons and how to build a stall team. They will not stop. Ever.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2236747175-v3llmwubeuwn939so4bjo3dxfbf2dcjpw

The Worst Is Yet To Come: A Gachapon Of Tera Types

If you thought that the Shadow Kyurem was scary, wait until you see what Gliscor is capable of. Tera Poison Poison Jab sets can easily take down Ogerpon and have the natural bulk to survive Earthquakes (assuming an EQ user is still alive); if Mola is running Tera Flying Acrobatics then this really isn’t outside of the realm of possibility. Who’s to say that Tera Fairy isn’t coming next? Meanwhile, Tera Dragon is making a resurgence with the bans of several Dragon types in conjunction with the fall-offs of Ice types and Ice coverage users; in a pinch, the bat can even Tera Dragon to survive an Ice attack.

0 Atk Ting-Lu Earthquake vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Tera Poison Gliscor: 186-222 (52.8 - 63%) -- 77.7% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal
252 Atk Great Tusk Earthquake vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Tera Poison Gliscor: 264-312 (75 - 88.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
252 Atk Protosynthesis Great Tusk Earthquake vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Tera Poison Gliscor: 342-404 (97.1 - 114.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Darkrai Ice Beam vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Tera Dragon Gliscor: 180-212 (51.1 - 60.2%) -- 36.3% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal
252 Atk Kyurem Scale Shot (4 hits) vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Tera Dragon Gliscor: 264-320 (75 - 90.9%) -- approx. 2HKO after Poison Heal
252 Atk Kyurem Icicle Spear (4 hits) vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Tera Dragon Gliscor: 264-320 (75 - 90.9%) -- approx. 2HKO after Poison Heal
252 SpA Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Tera Dragon Gliscor: 260-308 (73.8 - 87.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
252 SpA Kyurem Freeze-Dry vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Tera Dragon Gliscor: 204-242 (57.9 - 68.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
252+ SpA Raging Bolt Thunderclap vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Tera Water Gliscor: 234-276 (66.4 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
252+ SpA Raging Bolt Thunderbolt vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Tera Water Gliscor: 300-354 (85.2 - 100.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO Raging Bolt must have its Booster Energy intact in order to fight Gliscor. If Gliscor outspeeds or you get a Thunderclap fail, you lose.

This is obscene. It can use Toxic on basically anything due to its bulk, making progress no matter what, and can SD in the face of a lot of things.

On the offensive side, we’ve seen horrifying new mutations take place such as 658Greninja’s U-Turn sets and a new Double Dance set. Tera Poison can also be used offensively. I don’t think those sets need much elaboration. Oh, and literally none of this post mentions EV spreads which are a whole different beast.

If Gliscor remains legal, expect it to somehow become even more infuriating both offensively and defensively.

In Conclusion: Get This Thing Out Of Here

Through a combination of Terastalization, extremely favorable metagame trends, and unique inherent qualities that make it guaranteed to stay egregiously dominant no matter what metagame changes occur, Gliscor has simply become too much to handle for Gen 9 OU. Its progress making capabilities are unrivaled and require several avenues of attack and defense in order to be reliably insured against them, and oftentimes sheer luck can screw over Gliscor’s opponent anyway. Banning it will ease pressure on all manners of team structures while simultaneously making team structures more balanced and skill-based, and lead to an overall healthier metagame. Gliscor’s presence in the tier is extremely difficult to out-offense and extremely difficult to wall, and above that it is simply not necessary; its role can be filled by healthier options.

In my own personal opinion, I truly believe that an offensive threat that is impossible to reliably OKO is unhealthy because it allows it to make guaranteed, and often severe progress; defensive Pokemon have a bit more leeway in virtue of their passivity. This is the primary issue with mons like Gouging Faceplate and Zamazenta and it’s certainly an issue with Gliscor. If you don't want to listen to me on this subject, you can listen to DaddyBuzzwole instead, he makes some similar points about Gliscor after changing his mind from previously thinking that it was fine and goes over some more metagame history in addition to going more in depth about set variety than I do.

Metagame Post in thread 'SV OU Metagame Discussion v4'

Sep 29, 2024

since the topic of gliscor came up, here are my thoughts on it.

gliscor was unequivocally broken in dlc1, but i don't think it is right now. very strong? yes. the best spikes setter in this endless bloody war against hazards? without a doubt. annoying as shit? absolutely. but banworthy? i don't think so, and here's why:

PART 1: NEW ANSWERS

between new moves, returning mons, and expanded movepools, dlc2 introduced some options that can beat gliscor 1v1 fairly easily:

• thanks to regaining triple axel, weavile is much more splashable than before and...

• DaddyBuzzwole

• 
• 

This post. This is completely insane. I have never seen hate for one pokemon (competitively) this bad that deserved it. The only thing I kind of agree with is that choice band dragapult is a meme (there might be more things but as the meme says I ain't reading all of that). I understand that you may be frustrated by gliscor but for one thing you could have made it way shorter and for another thing from what I can tell a lot of the arguments kind of fall flat anyway. Please don't become the (redacted due to not wanting to be banned [you know who i mean]) of the gliscor suspect. You are better than this. I saw the arguments you made for kyurem staying during that suspect and they were great.

 

[Seraphyde]

swear to god I'm gonna go ctc on you people. doesn't matter that he would be against a gliscor ban

and that "you shouldn't use lower tier mons, otherwise that shows a mon is broken"

I'll respond to ur Yapping sometime next week because I'm swamped with uni bs but I wanted to touch on this one rq. Cause this is the man made of straw rearing his ugly head

Nowhere did I say that you should not use lower tier mons, because if you can make it work, you can make it work. I'm reposting this because this is not the first time that a scrub has misconstrued my words, insert joke about reading comprehension here

"I find this argument to be disingenuous because it’s actually a good argument for something being broken. If you have to reach into lower tiers and their respective BLs to find a consistent answer to a Pokemon then it is broken because that means it has already well adapted to metagame staples."

We've had people unironically mention stuff like tera blast ice hydrapple and ice beam clef and I want you people to understand that this is called "grasping at straws", yes you can make this stuff work but you shouldn't feel like you have to. Nowhere did I say that "you shouldn't use lower tier mons", this is inane. Perhaps I should have been more clear with my words because it seems like becoming lost in translation may be a recurring issue. People developing highly situational techs like this is a sign that something is profoundly unhealthy for the metagame. A player, new or old, should be able to adequately respond to meta threats utilizing only oumons and common strategies associated with them: ergo, they should be able to make what is essentially a sample team and go somewhat far with it. And yes, you can do this against glis, but the fact that people are reaching into stuff like iron hands, which is shit outside of BO and TR, is a sign that this is a lot harder to do with than say, glim, where all you have to do is just throw a supereffective attack at it. Answers are spread far and wide as very few things in the tier can reliably deal with it in the long run or short run to prevent it from getting going and that is why people are using stuff like weavile and fraudscarada which the ou metagame is currently very hostile to. Nobody has ever suggested that we run tera blast ice against great tusk, because great tusk is usually easy to cover for even in spite of its set variety rivaling or surpassing gliscor. Gliscor and effective support can easily shit on almost anything that isn't named ogerpon-wellspring and that's why we are in this situation where people are unironically considering running what is objectively speaking the worst defensive monotype as a tera that will leave you very vulnerable to revenge killing

as for the dozo thing, yeah, I admit that was my mistake, I just genuinely forgot it’s unaware because my response to it is either hexpult or darkrai and I am also quite burnt out rn
Have a nice rest of the day

 

[Karmazz]

The most prominent part of an unholy quartet keeping the game from finally being fun again and if I could pick only one member of those four to be eliminated it would be this one.

I think that in order to understand why Gliscor is still broken we must first review the qualities that it has as a reminder of just exactly what we are dealing with here.

Gliscor has, in a nutshell, Leftovers on steroids combined with status immunity and, at least pre-Tera, a veritable immunity to hazards since it doesn't take damage from Spikes and takes neutral damage from Stealth Rock that it can just heal back in one turn. Combined with one of the best defensive typings in the game and well-rounded stats, the little bastard has remained not only relevant but outright dominant in the face of overwhelming powercreep. Now, it's been considered fine before, so what's breaking it (it's not just Tera)?

This Was Not Part Of The Plan

Several counters touted as reliable checks, are--shocker--not as reliable as they may seem. Many checks that were previously prominent such as Weavile, Meowscarada, Serperior, Deoxys-Fast, and Skarmory have fallen or are projected to fall to UU. In addition, even mons that are reliably OU still have trouble breaking through it. I will be going over a few of them.

Psychic Noise Users

The three most prominent Psychic Noise users in the tier absolutely do NOT want to switch into Gliscor. EQ is the go-to move for the singular attack on defensive sets, Iron Crown and Glowking do not like that, and Primarina's physical frailty means that it can switch in once at most, unless it has Draining Kiss in which case you can switch in twice or thrice; Primarina also has to contend with her Psychic Noise not being STAB, and Liquid Voice, while reliable in beating the bat, is a suboptimal choice due to being unable to hit Poison types supereffectively. To top it all off, Gliscor moves first against Primarina.

0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Crown: 206-246 (64.1 - 76.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 16 Def Slowking-Galar: 242-288 (61.4 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Primarina: 133-157 (41.4 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Even if it lacks Earthquake for some reason, all of these three and more are ripped to pieces by Salt Cure (more on that later). Primarina can be easily defeated by Toxic.

Hex Users

Depending on the set, Hex users range from being okay to being utter dead weight against Gliscor. Functionally, they can't actually inflict status on it, and Gliscor's sheer bulk, independently of being physically or specially invested, makes it an uphill battle to actually get rid of it.

0 SpA Gholdengo Hex (130 BP) vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 159-187 (45.1 - 53.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal
0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 196+ Def Gholdengo: 162-192 (42.8 - 50.7%) -- 2.7% chance to 2HKO

Air Balloon Ghold does wall, but there is now immense pressure on you to keep its Air Balloon intact, as once it pops, Gliscor can shit in Ghold’s mouth; your opponent is going to try their absolute hardest to pop it. And if it has Knock Off, you’re done for.

196 SpA Dragapult Hex (130 BP) vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 150-177 (42.6 - 50.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal
0 Atk Gliscor Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 170-202 (53.6 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Gliscor Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 114-136 (35.9 - 42.9%) -- guaranteed 3KO

Dragapult 100% does not want to stay in against this thing, it is more often than not 2KOed by Knock Off and is guaranteed to be stalled out by Toxic. Choice Band Dragapult is a meme

General Offensive Threats

132 SpA Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 112-133 (31.8 - 37.7%) -- 69.6% chance to 4HKO after Poison Heal
252 SpA Quark Drive Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 160-189 (45.4 - 53.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal Nobody uses this shit
0 Atk Gliscor Facade (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 124 Def Iron Moth: 122-144 (40.5 - 47.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

I don’t even need to calculate what Gliscor can do back. Substitute shenanigans are irrelevant because the bat can just mash EQ until you run out of HP.

252 Atk Protosynthesis Roaring Moon Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 174-205 (49.4 - 58.2%) -- 11.7% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal
252 Atk Protosynthesis Roaring Moon Knock Off vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 117-138 (33.2 - 39.2%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Protosynthesis Roaring Moon Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 131-155 (37.2 - 44%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

RM cannot reliably break Gliscor without Tera or DD, and, just like with everything else, can be Toxic stalled or have its boosts matched by Gliscor.

252 SpA Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 130-154 (36.9 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
(This does more damage than item boosted Knock Off btw) 252 Atk Iron Valiant Close Combat vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 78-93 (22.1 - 26.4%) -- 12.8% chance to 4HKO
0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Valiant: 112-133 (38.7 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Ival 100% needs to boost and be quite healthy in order to break it. Encore is a good way to annoy the bat but it can Protect itself from Encore and switch out if it thinks you’ll Encore again. It should be noted that not every Ival runs Encore or boosting moves. Gliscor can easily SD or Toxic; even if it gets Encored, Toxic variants in particular put Ival on a short timer.

252 Atk Sharpness Samurott-Hisui Razor Shell vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 258-306 (73.2 - 86.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO The opposing Gliscor avoided the attack!
252 Atk Sharpness Samurott-Hisui Aqua Cutter vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 242-288 (68.7 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Samurott-Hisui: 124-147 (38.6 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 0 Atk Gliscor Facade (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Samurott-Hisui: 232-273 (72.2 - 85%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Gliscor U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Samurott-Hisui: 116-138 (36.1 - 42.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO Thank you 658Greninja for giving us this abomination of a set!

Admittedly, and surprisingly, this is the most reliable Gliscor check that isn’t an outright counter, as it 100% does not want to take a Knock Off followed by a super effective Razor Shell. That being said, max speed SD sets can easily nuke Sam with Facade, as well as the rare U-Turn. Sam absolutely does not want to switch in on a boosted Gliscor, and while Gliscor does not want to switch in on it either, the uncommonly run U-Turn can very easily put Sam in a bad position. Encore on Sam is a meme.

240 Atk Landorus-Therian Stone Edge vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 94-111 (26.7 - 31.5%) -- possible 5HKO

Self explanatory.

Choice Items

252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 235-277 (66.7 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
-2 252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 118-139 (33.5 - 39.4%) -- 98.5% chance to 4HKO after Poison Heal

Self-explanatory. Become setup fodder and get knocked off. Assuming that you don’t miss.

252 Atk Choice Band Dragapult Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 186-222 (52.8 - 63%) -- approx. 77.7% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal Nobody uses this shit

If they can tell it’s banded damage, they can just click Knock Off or a rare Tera Fairy.

252+ Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor in Grassy Terrain: 151-178 (42.8 - 50.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal
252+ Atk Choice Band Rillaboom Wood Hammer vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor in Grassy Terrain: 325-384 (92.3 - 109%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
+2 0 Atk Gliscor Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rillaboom: 145-171 (42.5 - 50.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
+2 0 Atk Gliscor Facade (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rillaboom: 209-246 (61.2 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

Grassy Glide cannot 2KO, making you setup or Toxic fodder. If you risk recoil damage just to get rid of Gliscor then that’s only a testament to how broken it is.

220 Atk Choice Band Roaring Moon Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 195-231 (55.3 - 65.6%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal
220 Atk Choice Band Roaring Moon Knock Off vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 132-156 (37.5 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
220 Atk Choice Band Roaring Moon Outrage vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 241-285 (68.4 - 80.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Roaring Moon Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 261-307 (74.1 - 87.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
252 Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Roaring Moon Knock Off vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 175-207 (49.7 - 58.8%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Protosynthesis Roaring Moon Outrage vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 322-379 (91.4 - 107.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

Do people still use this set? Anyways you have to go with the nuclear option on Sun if you want to take it down. Even then, it still has the opportunity to Toxic.

Choice Band Samurott-H is a meme and so is Choice Band Meowscarada and Choice Specs Raging Neck.

Life Orb

252 SpA Life Orb Glimmora Power Gem vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 152-179 (43.1 - 50.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal

This is a set I cooked in response to missing Meteor Beam too often. Needless to say it doesn’t do much, but if you put this into the calculator it does some insane stuff like 2KOing the metal birds so the fact that Gliscor can survive this very well is yet another indictment against it.

252 SpA Life Orb Darkrai Dark Pulse vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 153-183 (43.4 - 51.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal

This assumes that Gliscor has either Teraed or you’re deliberately hiding Ice Beam in order to surprise it. But yeah, the fact that it can easily survive the STAB of one of the best special attackers in the game to the point that some idiots want it banned is yet another indictment against the bat.

252 Atk Life Orb Roaring Moon Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 175-207 (49.7 - 58.8%) -- 11.7% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal
252 Atk Life Orb Roaring Moon Knock Off vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 117-138 (33.2 - 39.2%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO
220 Atk Life Orb Roaring Moon Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 169-200 (48 - 56.8%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal
220 Atk Life Orb Roaring Moon Knock Off vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 114-136 (32.3 - 38.6%) -- 98.7% chance to 3HKO

If you’re tired of needing to wait to DD (I know that I am), you can try this out. Except it still can’t break the bat.

252 Atk Life Orb Sharpness Samurott-Hisui Razor Shell vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 335-398 (95.1 - 113%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Sharpness Samurott-Hisui Aqua Cutter vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 315-374 (89.4 - 106.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

This is a set that exists, I guess. Still not guaranteed to kill but it’s there… and it can still be outsped.

Life Orb UUVile is a meme.

Ice Types and Ice Type Coverage

This brings me back to my earlier point about how many previously reliable checks have fallen off greatly. Most Ice Beam users sans Kyurem and Glowking are very low in usage and weak to other metagame staples, some of which such as Garg or Mola are frequently paired with Gliscor.

252 SpA Kyurem Freeze-Dry vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Tera Water Gliscor: 204-242 (57.9 - 68.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

Though a suboptimal option, Gliscor can Tera to avoid an OKO from Kyurem. It can easily get off a Toxic and switch into a resist. Kyurem does force out Gliscor, but positioning it to do so is actually quite difficult if it’s not carrying HDB (a well known power limiter). It does NOT enjoy Knock Off or Facade or Earthquake.

144+ SpA Slowking-Galar Ice Beam vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 312-368 (88.6 - 104.5%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

I really don’t know why you would ever switch a Glowking into Gliscor but there you go. The fact that Gliscor even has a chance of surviving this, let alone over a 2/3 chance, really tells you all that you need to know.

Darkrai and Deoxys-Fast (calcs not necessary) are invalidated by Tera and cannot break Gliscor without boosting which it can easily match or Toxic Stall out. UUvile and FRAUDscarada get Protected on and then Gliscor switches into something that beats it.

Tera Blast Ice

I don’t even know why I’m giving this my attention. It was a moot point against Kyurem and it’s a moot point here. If you’re actually using Tera Blast Ice on something I invite you to please reconsider your Gliscor answer. Offensive Tera Ice is useless except on Kyurem and UUVile and isn’t even used too often on them.

252 SpA Tera Ice Serperior Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 324-384 (92 - 109%) -- 50% chance to OHKO fucking lmao

Toxic-Immune Pokemon

Another moot point because of Earthquake. Even Garg doesn’t generally want to switch in on Gliscor due to the risk of Knock Off, much like Gholdengo. Tera Poison is the same thing.

Meteor Meme Glimmora

+1 252 SpA Glimmora Meteor Beam vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 261-307 (74.1 - 87.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal The opposing Gliscor avoided the attack! Gliscor used Earthquake!

Ogerbroad-Wellspring

252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Ivy Cudgel vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 296-350 (84 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

Frankly, she’s the only one that can reliably beat every Gliscor set offensively. With STABs and Superpower and Play Rough for coverage, Gliscor does not want to switch into this thing. Even then, however, she can’t OKO without SR chip, Poison Jab isn’t unheard of, and Superpower’s defense drop can leave her vulnerable if Gliscor survives. Ironically, Ogerbroad is a very good partner for Gliscor, soaking up (no pun intended) Water attacks that threaten the bat.

Substitutes, Aurora Veil, and Dual Screens

Heavily matchup dependent as can be seen with Iron Moth and it’s basically required to be already set up before Gliscor comes in, which is hard to do because of its longevity and offensive and defensive pressure. Grimmsnarl and Alolan Ninetales in particular are huge momentum sinks that can allow Gliscor to set up.

Weather and Terrain Teams

Also heavily matchup dependent. Sand (who plays sand unironically) fuck all against Gliscor unless Tyranitar is carrying Ice Beam. Sun is… okay against Gliscor? Rain SHOULD do well, but Gliscor teams usually are prepared for it, same with Grassy Terrain. GT in particular is good against only defensive variants thanks to EQ getting shitcanned but isn’t too good against SD variants.

Taunt

Taunt does not shut down a boosted Gliscor because it can just begin attacking and have a reasonable chance of KOing. Taunting is also reliant on being fast, and moreover, Gliscor can easily scout for Taunt using Protect. At most, Taunt forces Gliscor out, but there is now immense pressure for you to keep your Taunt user alive. Taunt is usable, but giving up an entire move slot for it limits what that mon can do, especially if for some reason you have more than one Taunt user.

Encore

Same as above, but a bit more reliable, but also more scoutable and predictable.

Walls AKA Ice Type Coverage Part 2

All of the above have been offensive answers, but what about defensive ones? Well, defensive answers to Gliscor are shaky. The steel birds and defensive Great Tusk wall it, but other physical walls such as Dondozo and Garganacl require Curse in order to match SDs. They can usually wall out Toxic variants through status immunity, but lose to SD. Dondozo in particular does not like Gliscor as it can SD on Resting turns. Avalanche is usable, but uncommon, and you’re giving up either Waterfall or BP or Sleep Talk (lmao) in order to use it, and all of those are staple Dozo moves. Same thing with Ice Beam Blissey or CleFEEBLE. Only Stored Power Unaware sets can reliably answer Gliscor. Stored Power Magic Guard loses to SD. Glowking cannot answer Gliscor without Ice Beam. Lando can Intimidate, but Gliscor can boost past it. If it doesn’t have Taunt, it’s kind of dead weight.

0 Atk Great Tusk Ice Spinner vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 232-276 (65.9 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal Tusk obviously wins, this is just included to show how fucking bulky Gliscor is
0 SpA Clefable Ice Beam vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 220-260 (62.5 - 73.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal Works, but kind of a waste
0 SpA Slowking-Galar Ice Beam vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 248-296 (70.4 - 84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal Please just use the AV set if you’re going to try this
0 Atk Dondozo Waterfall vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 138-164 (39.2 - 46.5%) -- 82.6% chance to 3HKO after Poison Heal You’re most likely going to need to Rest or risk death
0 Atk Dondozo Avalanche vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 140-168 (39.7 - 47.7%) -- 94.6% chance to 3HKO after Poison Heal I really thought this would do more
0 Atk Dondozo Avalanche vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 276-328 (78.4 - 93.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal Still can’t OKO
0 Atk Garganacl Salt Cure vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Gliscor: 34-42 (9.6 - 11.9%) -- possible 9HKO Salt Cure at most neutralizes Poison Heal. You need Ice Punch in order to actually do anything to Gliscor.

Just Use Niche Pokemon, Bro

I find this argument to be disingenuous because it’s actually a good argument for something being broken. If you have to reach into lower tiers and their respective BLs to find a consistent answer to a Pokemon then it is broken because that means it has already well adapted to metagame staples. Poopa Unbound and Ice Punch Iron Hands can both reliably deal with Gliscor for example, but they are very difficult to justify using even on the few team structures that they fit on. In fact, if Gliscor manages to survive Hyperspace Fury, it can cripple Hoopa with Toxic or KO back with Facade. It’s like suggesting that you should use Basc-F to beat Zamazenta, it works in a vacuum, but not really in practice. Neutralizing Gas Geezing (I don’t even know why I’m mentioning it) 100% does not want to stay in to take Earthquakes, and Latios/as hate Knock Off.

Go Ahead, Switch In, I Fucking Dare You

Basically nothing wants to switch into Gliscor for three reasons: Toxic, Longevity, and Set Variety.

Switching into Gliscor is a gamble against a Toxic miss or a failed Protect, forcing frustrating 50/50s several times throughout the course of a match. Unlike Kyurem or Great Tusk it is very difficult to tell what Gliscor is going to do based on team structure. Balance and BO and Hazard Stack alike all get monumental utility from both SD and Spikes sets. As a result, you simply can never have an idea of when it is safe to switch in. Bring in Ghold on a predicted EQ and get Knocked Off. Bring in Garg on a predicted Knock Off and get EQed. Between Toxic and the three attacks that can be viably run, all of them will make great progress no matter what. Gliscor has several opportunities to do what it wants thanks to mindgames and its built in qualities.

Gliscor And Friends

Gliscor on stall and fat structures is commonly paired with Blissey and other mons that we love to hate. It has been for some time, so what’s changed?

ZapKingLu is an infamous name, and while it’s fallen off in viability, as an idea, “ZapKingLu”, referring to an asinine playstyle of passive fat balance that relies on frequent switching, is still very much alive. In fact, I’d argue that GlisKingLu is the new passive meta threat. Substitute Glowking for a stallmon of your choice. Garganacl or Alomomola preferably for maximum annoyance. These options were previously unavailable to Gliscor, but now it can pair with other asinine options to form cores and team structures that are simply insipid.

The Great Tusk In The Room

I think it’s already well known that Gliscor is a premier Tera abuser, but much like its other traits I think it’s important to restate it.

I have neglected to mention Tera up until now (with as limited exceptions as possible) because Gliscor is great without Tera. Oftentimes it doesn’t even need to Tera in order to win a game. But if it does, you’re usually going to get swept or stalled. Tera Normal sets can easily get a free turn to set up against Hex users and completely shut them down by becoming a reliable switch-in. Tera Water sets can do the same in order to get a free opportunity to attack.

Gliscor is better at beating is checks than ever before, and it uses Tera better than any other mon by virtue of requiring either boosted or repeated supereffective hits to eliminate. Sound familiar?

Gliscor’s sheer bulk also often forces Teras from opposing Pokemon, which it can easily sponge up.

132 SpA Tera Grass Iron Moth Energy Ball vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Gliscor: 127-150 (36 - 42.6%) -- 2.1% chance to 3HKO after Poison Heal Gliscor used Toxic!
0 Atk Gliscor Facade (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Flying Glimmora: 106-125 (34.5 - 40.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO This set can beat Gliscor but it is VERY situational and Gliscor can heavily damage it if it outspeeds Glimmora or use Toxic

I did not mention Tera up until now because it is very matchup dependent and can easily be matched by Gliscor. If a Pokemon can force Tera’s this often and still have a chance of beating them, it is profoundly unhealthy. We saw this with Gouging Faceplate.

Schrödinger’s Bat: Part 1 - Tipping The Scales of Balance

Gliscor is a great balance breaker and simultaneously great for balance. This would be healthy for the metagame if it wasn’t for the fact that the entire matchup revolves around Gliscor. If you have a Gliscor, and the other guy doesn’t, the matchup is in your favor. If you don’t have a Gliscor and the other guy does, the matchup is in his favor. If both of you have a Gliscor, then you get a brainless mirror match.

Gliscor is indeed good against fat but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s absolutely asinine on fat cores. Lots of broken threats are able to guarantee progress against fat teams, doesn’t mean that they also can’t be broken on fat teams.

Schrödinger’s Bat: Part 2 - Stalling For Time

I will preface this by stating that I sincerely do not believe that stall deserves as much consideration in tiering decisions as other playstyles. This is not because it is frustrating to play against, but rather for three reasons: it is a niche playstyle, it is radically different from all other playstyles, and it is limited in the scope of variety that it can have. As a result of these traits, giving it equal consideration with other playstyles would introduce a myriad of unnecessary considerations and complications into tiering decisions. All things considered, I will be giving stall equal footing with other playstyles in an effort to be in good faith as possible.

Gliscor is good against stall and good on stall much like it is on fat teams. What makes this situation different is that Gliscor is a staple on stall teams. As a result of this, stall players have a vested interest in keeping Gliscor OU legal, and this would be a legitimate self-interest if Gliscor were only disgusting on stall teams. But it isn’t. Gliscor doesn’t just make stall insufferable, it makes any team it’s present on insufferable, both when used against stall and with stall.

I do not want Gliscor to be banned because it will hurt stall. You should not want Gliscor to be banned because it will hurt stall. Banning Gliscor will hurt stall, but it will not kill stall. It will have more effects than just hurting stall and those effects will be largely positive and that is why I will be voting to ban Gliscor and why I urge you to vote to ban Gliscor.

Some guy reached Top 100 with a monopoison stall team. Stall will not die if Gliscor gets banned because stall players are simply too fucking dedicated and will find new ways to keep stalling. There is a Google Document out there called “The Stall Bible” with many pages of obscenely detailed breakdowns on stallmons and how to build a stall team. They will not stop. Ever.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2236747175-v3llmwubeuwn939so4bjo3dxfbf2dcjpw

The Worst Is Yet To Come: A Gachapon Of Tera Types

If you thought that the Shadow Kyurem was scary, wait until you see what Gliscor is capable of. Tera Poison Poison Jab sets can easily take down Ogerpon and have the natural bulk to survive Earthquakes (assuming an EQ user is still alive); if Mola is running Tera Flying Acrobatics then this really isn’t outside of the realm of possibility. Who’s to say that Tera Fairy isn’t coming next? Meanwhile, Tera Dragon is making a resurgence with the bans of several Dragon types in conjunction with the fall-offs of Ice types and Ice coverage users; in a pinch, the bat can even Tera Dragon to survive an Ice attack.

0 Atk Ting-Lu Earthquake vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Tera Poison Gliscor: 186-222 (52.8 - 63%) -- 77.7% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal
252 Atk Great Tusk Earthquake vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Tera Poison Gliscor: 264-312 (75 - 88.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
252 Atk Protosynthesis Great Tusk Earthquake vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Tera Poison Gliscor: 342-404 (97.1 - 114.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Darkrai Ice Beam vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Tera Dragon Gliscor: 180-212 (51.1 - 60.2%) -- 36.3% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal
252 Atk Kyurem Scale Shot (4 hits) vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Tera Dragon Gliscor: 264-320 (75 - 90.9%) -- approx. 2HKO after Poison Heal
252 Atk Kyurem Icicle Spear (4 hits) vs. 244 HP / 36 Def Tera Dragon Gliscor: 264-320 (75 - 90.9%) -- approx. 2HKO after Poison Heal
252 SpA Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Tera Dragon Gliscor: 260-308 (73.8 - 87.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
252 SpA Kyurem Freeze-Dry vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Tera Dragon Gliscor: 204-242 (57.9 - 68.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
252+ SpA Raging Bolt Thunderclap vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Tera Water Gliscor: 234-276 (66.4 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
252+ SpA Raging Bolt Thunderbolt vs. 244 HP / 228+ SpD Tera Water Gliscor: 300-354 (85.2 - 100.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO Raging Bolt must have its Booster Energy intact in order to fight Gliscor. If Gliscor outspeeds or you get a Thunderclap fail, you lose.

This is obscene. It can use Toxic on basically anything due to its bulk, making progress no matter what, and can SD in the face of a lot of things.

On the offensive side, we’ve seen horrifying new mutations take place such as 658Greninja’s U-Turn sets and a new Double Dance set. Tera Poison can also be used offensively. I don’t think those sets need much elaboration. Oh, and literally none of this post mentions EV spreads which are a whole different beast.

If Gliscor remains legal, expect it to somehow become even more infuriating both offensively and defensively.

In Conclusion: Get This Thing Out Of Here

Through a combination of Terastalization, extremely favorable metagame trends, and unique inherent qualities that make it guaranteed to stay egregiously dominant no matter what metagame changes occur, Gliscor has simply become too much to handle for Gen 9 OU. Its progress making capabilities are unrivaled and require several avenues of attack and defense in order to be reliably insured against them, and oftentimes sheer luck can screw over Gliscor’s opponent anyway. Banning it will ease pressure on all manners of team structures while simultaneously making team structures more balanced and skill-based, and lead to an overall healthier metagame. Gliscor’s presence in the tier is extremely difficult to out-offense and extremely difficult to wall, and above that it is simply not necessary; its role can be filled by healthier options.

In my own personal opinion, I truly believe that an offensive threat that is impossible to reliably OKO is unhealthy because it allows it to make guaranteed, and often severe progress; defensive Pokemon have a bit more leeway in virtue of their passivity. This is the primary issue with mons like Gouging Faceplate and Zamazenta and it’s certainly an issue with Gliscor. If you don't want to listen to me on this subject, you can listen to DaddyBuzzwole instead, he makes some similar points about Gliscor after changing his mind from previously thinking that it was fine and goes over some more metagame history in addition to going more in depth about set variety than I do.

Metagame Post in thread 'SV OU Metagame Discussion v4'

Sep 29, 2024

since the topic of gliscor came up, here are my thoughts on it.

gliscor was unequivocally broken in dlc1, but i don't think it is right now. very strong? yes. the best spikes setter in this endless bloody war against hazards? without a doubt. annoying as shit? absolutely. but banworthy? i don't think so, and here's why:

PART 1: NEW ANSWERS

between new moves, returning mons, and expanded movepools, dlc2 introduced some options that can beat gliscor 1v1 fairly easily:

• thanks to regaining triple axel, weavile is much more splashable than before and...

• DaddyBuzzwole

• 
• 

Not to blindly jump on the hate train, but if you think that Gliscor is broken you should actually show why instead of just posting a wall of calcs. I don't mean to insult your skill but I think you fundamentally misunderstand why Gliscor is getting suspected, or if you do understand you didn't express it very well. It is not because it has no offensive counterplay - in fact, offense rarely struggles into Gliscor - but rather Gliscor has the tools to easily outlast basically everything and limits the ways balance structures can be built.

Even if we pretend that Gliscor has no offensive counters, many of the mons you focused on aren't even considered checks in the first place so the calcs don't even prove anything. Glimm? Gking? Iron moth??? Of course Gliscor beats these guys, what are we doing here lol.

You also conveniently brush aside any of Gliscor's actual offensive checks like Dakrai, Kyurem, Deo, Meow, and Weavile because:
1. "Gliscor can tera out of the ice weakness" (Tera is a fundamental part of the tier, every single mon can tera to flip matchups. In addition, by teraing Gliscor loses it's pseudo hazard immunity and gains new weaknesses bla bla bla you've heard this already.)
2. "Gliscor can switch out of incoming ice moves" (Switching is a fundamental part of pokemon, every single mon can do this.)
3. "Weavile, Deo, and Meow are bad so they don't count actually" (?)

You admit W-oger and H-samu are checks but still find a way to spin them not ohkoing from full into proof of Gliscor's brokenness.

I could nitpick the post forever but that would take away from the discussion, so I just wanna close with saying that I am personally very split on whether Gliscor should be banned. On one hand, it is incredibly hard to beat long term. It's unrivaled resilience gives it many opportunities to set up or to whittle away at the opponent with knock, spikes, and toxic. None of its offensive counters come close to matching its longevity, and all of its defensive counters are highly exploitable.

On the other hand, Gliscor is a virtual non-issue for offense, which can overwhelm it with sheer power and exploit its own initial lack of power for setup opportunities. Some of Gliscor's best offensive checks like Darkrai, Kyurem, and W-oger are already very strong mons, easy to slot onto teams. And as exploitable as they can be, Gliscor is never breaking past Dozo and the metal birds.

The strongest argument to ban Gliscor, at least in my opinion, is that it unreasonably limits how balance teams can be built. However, one could very reasonably argue that that's simply what a metagame defining pokemon does.

One last interesting thing with Gliscor is that it's virtually impossible to predict how the meta would end up following its ban. It's presence has such a significant impact on both the offensive and defensive dynamics of the tier that there's no way of knowing what butterfly affect would occur in Gliscor's absence. I hope the trend of fearmongering dies in this suspect, although I have my suspicions it will not.

 

[JackRG]

Samurott is a very viable encore user, it's effective vs fat, has just enough bulk to live shit like a Roaring Moon attack if need be...plenty of use cases for it getting an encore off, for both Sash or Boots Samu

If you are faster than kingambit and have encore, that in of itself is a reason to use it lol