Metagame np: USUM DOU Stage 4 - Haunted - Gengarite Banned

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I’m not on council so I don’t have any exact dates, but the earliest a Marshadow test could happen is during SPL postseason, which should be some time around mid March.

I’m going to post again later and roll this one into that one, I want to talk about Salamence and stuff.
later is not bound to any time frame
Pretty lame, you guys said in January is when marshadow would get retested during gengar test.

See you guys in march. This game is in a very boring and unplayable state. Everybody uses the same incineroar core. Shit is not fun at all. How you guys can still enjoy this game with that broken mon everywhere I will never understand.

Also why haven't you guys added melmetal? it's been months since he came out. Hes a playable mon in the new games, we should be able to use him. You have the stats and move pool available. You can even battle with him on wifi in the new games.
 

MajorBowman

take a sip babes
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Pretty lame, you guys said in January is when marshadow would get retested during gengar test.

See you guys in march. This game is in a very boring and unplayable state. Everybody uses the same incineroar core. Shit is not fun at all. How you guys can still enjoy this game with that broken mon everywhere I will never understand.

Also why haven't you guys added melmetal? it's been months since he came out. Hes a playable mon in the new games, we should be able to use him. You have the stats and move pool available. You can even battle with him on wifi in the new games.
Melmetal isn't playable in any game except for Let's Go Pikachu and Eevee, which have nothing to do with current tiers. LGPE is not part of the main series, much like other titles like Shuffle or Mystery Dungeon. Therefore Melmetal is not legal in any official tiers, including OU and DOU. If Melmetal is included in the next main series games (which are scheduled to come out later this year), then it will be added to DOU.

We won't apologize for taking our time to make sure we don't make any rash decisions. If Gengar hadn't been banned we likely would have moved forward with a Marshadow retest soon thereafter. Since Gengar was banned and the metagame lost one of its most important Pokemon, we needed to let the metagame settle. There simply was not time to test Marshadow again before SPL, and testing something during SPL could throw a giant wrench in the metagame during what is one of the most important tournaments on this site. If you paid attention to the tournament scene (for example, this thread), you'd actually see that a lot of people have been using (and winning with) very creative teams, not all of which feature "the same Incineroar core." I'm having a fantastic time playing DOU right now and if you opened your mind a little bit I'm sure you could too!
 
Melmetal isn't playable in any game except for Let's Go Pikachu and Eevee, which have nothing to do with current tiers. LGPE is not part of the main series, much like other titles like Shuffle or Mystery Dungeon. Therefore Melmetal is not legal in any official tiers, including OU and DOU. If Melmetal is included in the next main series games (which are scheduled to come out later this year), then it will be added to DOU.

We won't apologize for taking our time to make sure we don't make any rash decisions. If Gengar hadn't been banned we likely would have moved forward with a Marshadow retest soon thereafter. Since Gengar was banned and the metagame lost one of its most important Pokemon, we needed to let the metagame settle. There simply was not time to test Marshadow again before SPL, and testing something during SPL could throw a giant wrench in the metagame during what is one of the most important tournaments on this site. If you paid attention to the tournament scene (for example, this thread), you'd actually see that a lot of people have been using (and winning with) very creative teams, not all of which feature "the same Incineroar core." I'm having a fantastic time playing DOU right now and if you opened your mind a little bit I'm sure you could too!
So you think pokemon company introduced a new pokemon that will end up being unplayable later this year? Its going to be in the new games man, you already have the data, just make it official now. its from the next generation, it just got released early. Its not in sun or moon so i understand that. Still should have a real mode where it can be used in doubles.

Lets go are also cannon games. Not spin offs. They themselves even said this. No where near mystery dungeon.

Also tired of this game being balanced around the same 20 tournament players compared to the hundreds that play ladder. Just played again and yes "the same incineroar core" is alive and overpowering as ever. Trash ass mon.

Just because you and your tournament bros want to be fancy doesn't mean its not all over the place on ladder, you know the place where 98% of this player base plays. The ladder shouldn't have to wait for the rest of you to play your tournaments.

Balance the game, if your tournament bros want to play with banned mons just allow it, dont make it so we all have to suffer on ladder.

EDIT: lol at the angry tournament bros leaving those scary frown faces at me.
 
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bunnyy

Formerly Elise
is a Tiering Contributor
Red Pill PUA

it's literally illegal in the USUM cartridge we play our metagame on. Pokemon Let's Go is an entire different game and has a different ladder in which you can legally use it. This is consistent throughout any Smogon tiers; singles OU also has a big red "Illegal" next to Melmetal in the teambuilder.

The reason the tier balances largely around tournament play is because ladder is not representative of quality. Low to mid-ladder is often infested with low-effort gimmicks that are easily played around whereas higher ladder just follows many of the standard archetypes commonly used in tournament play anyway.

There's plenty of variation from Incineroar cores; the reason you see EmbCPT's team or variations of it so often is because it is a consistent team with many offensive and defensive ways to outplay most matchups. This is the perfect team to use for ladder environments which require consistency because of the high volume of games played. There's still plenty of interesting and bold teams brought in tournament environments, I implore you to take a look through this thread so you can gain some inspiration.
 
This is new and was not around the last time i played this game. So i guess i will play it.

Still scheduled suspect tests should not have to wait for your tournaments. There needs to be a person on the council or whatever that represents ladder players. Nobody has the ladder interests. Its being held hostage.

Do the suspect and whatever happens, if you tourny bros want to play with banned/unbanned mons from the ladder then do that separate from the rest of us. I don't understand why you guys just dont do that already?

Suspect marshadow and incinroar NOW ! Stop delaying it. Game is near unplayable on ladder right now.
 

Yoshi

i never signed up for your drama club
is a Pre-Contributor
I'm no doubles player, but I definitely don't think Incineroar needs to be suspect tested by any means. From the few sample games that I've seen, it only seems that Incineroar can be considered a negative presence, if that at all. Generally, Pokemon are only suspect tested if they are considered to be broken (and in some rare cases, unhealthy, but usually the former). Incineroar can be considered to be unhealthy, of course, but I don't think it is to the point as to where it needs a suspect test. Splashability is not the same as restrictive in team building. You cannot say that just because everyone uses Incineroar, it should be tested. If this meta isn't fun for you to play, play a different meta.
 

miltankmilk

**hypnotic recorder plays in background**
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This is new and was not around the last time i played this game. So i guess i will play it.

Still scheduled suspect tests should not have to wait for your tournaments. There needs to be a person on the council or whatever that represents ladder players. Nobody has the ladder interests. Its being held hostage.

Do the suspect and whatever happens, if you tourny bros want to play with banned/unbanned mons from the ladder then do that separate from the rest of us. I don't understand why you guys just dont do that already?

Suspect marshadow and incinroar NOW ! Stop delaying it. Game is near unplayable on ladder right now.
If there are hordes of ladder players demanding the ban of incineroar, why are you their only voice? You are quite literally the only person I’ve ever come across who has this view. The game is not unplayable, its very playable, there are a lot of archetypes that are good and not great which to me is a positive.

Dont act like you speak for every player on the ladder, you speak for yourself and nobody else agrees with you. Hop down off your high horse

edit: spelling
 
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n1n1

the real n1n1
is a Tiering Contributor
This is new and was not around the last time i played this game. So i guess i will play it.

Still scheduled suspect tests should not have to wait for your tournaments. There needs to be a person on the council or whatever that represents ladder players. Nobody has the ladder interests. Its being held hostage.

Do the suspect and whatever happens, if you tourny bros want to play with banned/unbanned mons from the ladder then do that separate from the rest of us. I don't understand why you guys just dont do that already?

Suspect marshadow and incinroar NOW ! Stop delaying it. Game is near unplayable on ladder right now.
1) they are called the Doubles Illuminati, not tour bros

2) you are literally the only guy calling for this suspect. If you find more people on the ladder then send them here to support your case. But just one guy obnoxiously calling for a suspect isn't going to result in any action
 
I'm no doubles player, but I definitely don't think Incineroar needs to be suspect tested by any means. From the few sample games that I've seen, it only seems that Incineroar can be considered a negative presence, if that at all. Generally, Pokemon are only suspect tested if they are considered to be broken (and in some rare cases, unhealthy, but usually the former). Incineroar can be considered to be unhealthy, of course, but I don't think it is to the point as to where it needs a suspect test. Splashability is not the same as restrictive in team building. You cannot say that just because everyone uses Incineroar, it should be tested. If this meta isn't fun for you to play, play a different meta.
loved how you ignore the marshadow point.

and the point of your tourneys should be separate from the current version of the ladder so we can speed up the suspect tests and future ones, so the ladder doesnt have to wait for you.

How come nobody is responding to that? oh yeah because it makes sense and im right.
 

miltankmilk

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loved how you ignore the marshadow point.

and the point of your tourneys should be separate from the current version of the ladder so we can speed up the suspect tests and future ones, so the ladder doesnt have to wait for you.

How come nobody is responding to that? oh yeah because it makes sense and im right.
Sure I’ll bite. We aren’t testing marshadow immediately because, again, you are the only person demanding this. Many people want it tested but there is no point in introducing more instability into an already unstable environment. Nobody else has voiced any concern over the timetable of a marshadow retest other than the voice of the ladder himself. Suspect tests are planned around tournaments because tournaments drive innovation in the metagame, trying to change the meta mid-tournament really stifles that.

Also why are we the one holding the ladder hostage when you’re the one shouting demands? :blobthinking:
 
1) they are called the Doubles Illuminati, not tour bros

2) you are literally the only guy calling for this suspect. If you find more people on the ladder then send them here to support your case. But just one guy obnoxiously calling for a suspect isn't going to result in any action
i'm the only guy calling for it because i'm the only guy that doesn't use it.

there not going to want to ban their crutch.
 
Sure I’ll bite. We aren’t testing marshadow immediately because, again, you are the only person demanding this. Many people want it tested but there is no point in introducing more instability into an already unstable environment. Nobody else has voiced any concern over the timetable of a marshadow retest other than the voice of the ladder himself. Suspect tests are planned around tournaments because tournaments drive innovation in the metagame, trying to change the meta mid-tournament really stifles that.

Also why are we the one holding the ladder hostage when you’re the one shouting demands? :blobthinking:
Whatever, im done, its clear you guys are all in on it together and are in collusion to maintain this. THE LADDER AND YOUR TOURNAMENTS SHOULD BE SEPARATE.

ALL the players on ladder hate incinroar, you dont hear about it because you guys never play ladder and they dont even know this forum exists. If they had a voice on here they would all tell you they want incinroar gone! and marshadow suspect right now !

See you guys in 5 years for the marshowdow test when the meta "settles" its been settled ever since gangar got banned, nothing has changed. Only thing that is different is incin lost a member of its o.p core. It was incin that was the problem not gangar.

"2) you are literally the only guy calling for this suspect. If you find more people on the ladder then send them here to support your case. But just one guy obnoxiously calling for a suspect isn't going to result in any action"

Hold a vote, make sure everybody sees in the news section and chatrooms. Watch the results. but noooo you guys wont do that. You wont even bring it up for discussion. You wont even let the people that play this game have a voice. If your not a tourney bro your opinion doesn't matter is the official stance I have also gotten from this place.
 

MajorBowman

take a sip babes
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Whatever, im done, its clear you guys are all in on it together and are in collusion to maintain this. THE LADDER AND YOUR TOURNAMENTS SHOULD BE SEPARATE.

ALL the players on ladder hate incinroar, you dont hear about it because you guys never play ladder and they dont even know this forum exists. If they had a voice on here they would all tell you they want incinroar gone! and marshadow suspect right now !

See you guys in 5 years for the marshowdow test when the meta "settles" its been settled ever since gangar got banned, nothing has changed. Only thing that is different is incin lost a member of its o.p core. It was incin that was the problem not gangar.
They aren't "our" tournaments. There is no divide between ladder players and tournament players other than the one you are falsely creating. No one is excluded from tournaments just as no one is excluded from playing on ladder. We've told you time and time again that you're welcome join tournaments but for some reason you refuse.

It's also pretty ridiculous to insinuate that none of the players who have tournament success play on the ladder. We all do to varying extents. It's totally fine to prefer one to the other but in no way whatsoever are they mutually exclusive.

You can't just make these statements like "ALL ladder players hate Incineroar" while providing literally 0 evidence. The people posting in this thread know what they're talking about and wouldn't just say these things if they weren't true.

If the players on the ladder don't know that the forum exists they'd have to be either pretty dull or just not looking because there are multiple links to the forum resources in the Smogon Doubles room on PS. During suspects, there's even a link that pops up at the beginning of every game.

Since you all but begged for an answer regarding Marshadow (albeit from a person who admits themselves they aren't involved with doubles, might want to pick your audiences a bit better), a retest has been in the works since this winter. Yes, we are planning the suspect around Smogon Premier League, the single most important tournament on this website. miltankmilk already explained why this is both a smart and necessary decision, but if you need more clarification then I'm happy to help.

The fact of the matter is that the ladder is not and should not be the sole focus when we make decisions regarding tiering. Tournaments are a very important component of DOU and every other tier on Smogon and if you don't like that then I don't know what to tell you. We'd love to consider the grand opinions of these elusive ladder-only players you keep mentioning, but we literally can't unless they speak up. If there really is a huge legion of people calling for an Incineroar ban I can't help but think we would have known by now.

If you aren't willing to hear out our responses to your posts without reposting the exact same thing 6 times with varying degrees of anger, then you aren't welcome to post here anymore. We'd love to have you, but not if your only contributions to this metagame and this community are going to be vitriolic and unproductive.
 
ALL the players on ladder hate incinroar, you dont hear about it because you guys never play ladder and they dont even know this forum exists. If they had a voice on here they would all tell you they want incinroar gone! and marshadow suspect right now !
Since you decided to ignore the points made by the "tour bros" I'll weigh in on this. I'm a ladder player, I've playing this tier on ladder for about a year now and I've never found the meta to be more enjoyable than it is now, I don't find Incineroar to be either restrictive to teambuilding or in any way broken and although I'd be open to a marshadow test I have no problems with the timing that was decided, so please stop trying to pass off your opinions as "The Ladder's". You've already voiced your concerns and received valid answers, if you don't find the tier fun to play take a break from it or something, but stop presenting yourself as the voice of all ladder players.
 
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