np: USUM UU Stage 7.1 - Controversy (Breloom banned from UU)

[Hilomilo]

I honestly think that we need to take a step back and decrease the eagerness to suspect anything just yet. I'm not trying to suggest that Scizor and Serperior aren't necessarily worthy of suspect tests, as I haven't formulated an opinion on either of those matters, but I think that considering tier shifts are probably less than two weeks away we should at the very least wait for those to come in and re-establish the metagame to the extent in which they will for any course of action regarding a suspect to be taken. One thing that I believe is really important to note is that Amoonguss could return when usage stats are done compiling, and if the proposed Serperior suspect test were to actually begin at its proposed time, Amoonguss, a very capable defensive Serperior answer, could change Serperior's effect on the metagame as said effect is being evaluated thoroughly. It just doesn't seem convenient at all to suspect a Pokemon that's effect on the metagame could very reasonably change under the circumstance that a probable tier shift occurs during its suspect. I get that there's a sense of urgency with open approaching, but I just think that holding off for a bit and allowing whatever joins our metagame in the next couple weeks to settle in and change things up however much it will is a good call considering a few potential drops in Mamoswine, the previously noted Amoonguss, Mega Diancie, and Bisharp could all directly or indirectly affect the presences of both Scizor and Serperior, the Pokemon being called for suspect tests most frequently. Patience seems to be key here, since again, I'd argue that it just isn't right for the metagame to change during a suspect test and for the suspect target's degree of centralization and effectiveness in the metagame to potentially change as well.

While I'm here, I thought I might briefly talk about a super underrated Pokemon that I've been using a lot on alts recently and have really come to love:

set

Talonflame @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Flame Charge / Roost

Talonflame is honestly a pretty devastating sweeper. I've loved using it these past couple weeks but Kink recently vouched for Flame Charge in its fourth slot and after trying that out some I'm now even more in love with this birb. Gliscor, Scizor, Serperior, Mega Altaria, Mega Aggron, and Cobalion are without a doubt some of the most defining presences in the tier in addition to being some of the harder Pokemon to work around in general. Talonflame's typing allows it to turn all of these Pokemon into liabilities (sometimes to varying extents) as it sets up, while its insane Speed tier and access to a powerful priority Z-move allow it to absolutely steamroll a lot of the tier's popular bulky offensive builds. Flame Charge is a super nice tool that it can use on some of its forced switches to try picking up a Speed boost, which prevents scarfers like Stone Edge Ape and Hydreigon from being capable of outspeeding and revenge killing it. The STAB combo threatens the majority of Pokemon that are often fitted on bulky offense, while Z-Brave Bird powers through stuff like Alomomola, Swampert, and Hippowdon with fairly minimal chip damage. Talonflame's biggest current struggle in the metagame is probably the current viability of a lot of Rock-types, like Aero, Nihilego, and Rhyperior, though both Aerodactyl and scarf variants of Nihilego become incapable of revenge killing Talonflame after it picks up a speed boost while getting OHKOed by Z-Brave Bird (Aero will require rocks down for the guaranteed KO), while Rhyperior is fairly easy to chip down throughout the course of a match and has a few other fairly exploitable weaknesses. I can totally see Talonflame indirectly benefitting from future metagame trends too, given that if Gliscor rises Rhyperior usage will probably die down with Mega Manectrics opting to run Hidden Power Grass more often, and Mamoswine's potential re-entry could breathe new life into Spikes offense, with spikes being an entry hazard Talonflame can abuse pretty well. I think that this guy deserves some more recognition and could find a very established place in the future metagame if it were to pick up some more usage. I may not be too great a player but I'll absolutely vouch for big linda, give it a try some time!

 

[Patrick1088]

Hilomilo is there a reason you are running Jolly > Adamant on that set? Especially with Flame Charge. Priority Z-Move powered up by Adamant would be good.

Also just a side note to any of the older UU people, I am back to play and am aiming to get back into playing.

 

[DiscoDucky]

Gale WIngs is priority only when Talon's at full HP. Going to Adamant from Jolly forces Talon to be slower than 115s (Starmie and co.).

 

[Patrick1088]

Gale WIngs is priority only when Talon's at full HP. Going to Adamant from Jolly forces Talon to be slower than 115s (Starmie and co.).

But if he's running Flame Charge that'll patch up the speed issue. If there is constant rocks pressure then Jolly would be better but the emphasis was on FC so Adamant could be slashed.

 

[Freeroamer]

Not outspeeding Serp alone is enough reason to make Adamant unviable. With Serp being one of the biggest threats in the tier currently and a large part of Talon’s niche coming directly from the ability to switch into most scenarios, outspeed and OHKO you can not afford to give this up, even though the calcs look appealing. Even if rocks are up, a Talon that cannot revenge kill a boosted Serperior is kind of tragic. You also place a very large assumption in always getting a Flame Charge boost. While the opportunities are there, they’re far from guaranteed and certainly not something that happens overly often.

 

[LRJ87]

Mega Aggron takes any hit and OHKO's back. Shuca Berry Cobalion and Empoleon can both take a hit and OHKO back. Scizor OHKO's with BP. Starmie outspeeds and OHKO's. Suicune and Swampert can take a hit and either 2HKO or OHKO it back.
The real problem is that NONE of these Pokémon can keep switching into it, and eventually Mega Diancie will just win the matchup if they're weakened enough. Diamond Storm having a 50% chance to raise your defense by 2 stages isn't exactly the most balanced thing either...
The council probably knows what they're doing, but in my eyes Mega Diancie will be broken. Don't know if it's immediately going to be broken, or if it's going to be one of those long term Pokémon, but I just don't see this thing staying.

SpeDef Hippo can switch in as well and kill it in return AND it has a good recovery in slack off

Calcs

252 SpA Diancie-Mega Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 160-190 (38 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Hippowdon Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Diancie-Mega: 218-260 (90.4 - 107.8%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

 

[Yasuo]

SpeDef Hippo can switch in as well and kill it in return AND it has a good recovery in slack off

Calcs

252 SpA Diancie-Mega Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 160-190 (38 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Hippowdon Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Diancie-Mega: 218-260 (90.4 - 107.8%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

One thing that should be noted is the fact that Diancie has a way do deal with most of it's so called counters and checks

So with tier shifts coming up, I want to talk about some of the Pokémon that will/are likely to leave UU, and Pokémon that will/are likely to drop to UU.

RISES
View attachment 124970
Current usage in OU:
| 53 | Gliscor | 3.634% |

Why will it rise?
Gliscor is an amazing Pokémon, being able to take on a few of the best Pokémon in OU, like Landorus-T, Toxapex and Heatran. It fits on the ever so popular balance, but is also really solid on BO and Stall. Gliscor's matchup against stall is also fairy solid, though stall has been on a decline in OU recently. Its solid bulk, acces to Defog, Roost, Knock and a good speed tier are all things that make this thing OU worthy, and should've risen long ago tbh.

How will this affect UU?
Good riddance. While Gliscor is one of the best, if not the best Pokémon in the tier, it's also one of the most annoying to face. But I'm not going to go into how Gliscor has been in UU. I'm moreso going to talk about which Pokémon could get better.

View attachment 124971View attachment 124972View attachment 124973View attachment 124975
These are already a bunch of Pokémon that will likely get better, or at least in the first couple of days. Scarf Infernape is absolutely going to get a LOT better, since Ape had nothing it could do against it. Cobalion might stay the same, as we'll likely see a rise in Hippowdon as the premier ground type (same for Ape, actually). Buuuut, it is at least nice that one of the better checks to Cobalion is gone, which will make Cobalion's day ever so slighty better. Mega Beedrill, while it still won't enjoy Scizor being as amazing as it is, is going to get a lot better now that one of its biggest checks won't be here anymore. Mega Beedrill + Magneton sounds very deadly ngl, might try that out. Heracross, especially the band set, is going to be sooooo good, as switchins to that thing are going to be very limited. Definitely going to enjoy using that thing.

Definitely glad this thing is going. While I loved using Gliscor, it's very good bulk is sometimes just a real annoyance to face. Can't wait to play a UU w/o Gliscor!


View attachment 124976View attachment 124977
Current usage in OU:
| 37 | Gastrodon | 4.815% |

Why will it rise?
Its decent bulk, solid defensive typing and acces to Recover lets this thing take on some top tier threats in OU, like Heatran, Tapu Koko, Greninja(-Ash) and Magearna. This about sums it up tbh, nothing else more to say. It's just really, really, REALLY solid in OU.

How will this affect UU?
Not a whole lot, I'd say. Sure, it was nic(h)e for checking some Pokémon in the tier, like Nihilego, Mega Aero, Mega Mane (lacking HP Grass) and Volcanion, but all those Pokémon are either also checked by other Pokémon or have some way to break through Gastro. Don't think this rise will impact UU a whole lot, so I won't be going into details any further.


DROPS
View attachment 124978
Current usage in OU:
| 57 | Diancie-Mega | 3.288% |

Why will it drop?
''Mega Diancie's defensive stats are quite lackluster, leaving it very vulnerable to being revenge killed by common Choice Scarf users as well as faster Pokemon such as Greninja, Tapu Koko, and Mega Lopunny. This is made worse by Mega Diancie's common weaknesses to Ground-, Water-, Grass-, and Steel-type attacks.''
And with balance being so super popular, Mega Diancie just has a hard time breaking through all of those Pokémon (Steela, Growth, Bulu, Pex, Gastro). It's just not in a good spot rn.

How will this affect UU?
If the council's smart, they'll quickban this immediately and retest it (just like Mega Gallade & Mega Hera). The amount of sheer power this 'mon has is insane, and switching into it seems almost impossible. Though, here are some ways that you could beat it with:

View attachment 124982View attachment 124983View attachment 124984View attachment 124985View attachment 124986View attachment 124987View attachment 124988
Mega Aggron takes any hit and OHKO's back. Shuca Berry Cobalion and Empoleon can both take a hit and OHKO back. Scizor OHKO's with BP. Starmie outspeeds and OHKO's. Suicune and Swampert can take a hit and either 2HKO or OHKO it back.
The real problem is that NONE of these Pokémon can keep switching into it, and eventually Mega Diancie will just win the matchup if they're weakened enough. Diamond Storm having a 50% chance to raise your defense by 2 stages isn't exactly the most balanced thing either...
The council probably knows what they're doing, but in my eyes Mega Diancie will be broken. Don't know if it's immediately going to be broken, or if it's going to be one of those long term Pokémon, but I just don't see this thing staying.


View attachment 124991
Current usage in OU:
| 56 | Amoonguss | 3.290% |

Why will it drop?
Not exactly sure tbh. It's probably because of the surge of the Mega Lati's and Mega Zam, only thing I can think of.

How will this affect UU?
FINALLY, the REAL mushroom we need. For real, it's so nice to get this thing again. Being able to slap a Pokémon with Regen and checking every bulky water in the tier (except Starmie) is just so crucial for a UU 'mon. Not too sure if the meta's going to change all that much, so I won't be making predictions of what could get good and what could get worse, but if I'd have to guess stuff like SubRoost Kyurem and Sleep Talk Lati are going to be a thing again.
Also people pls don't ask for a Breloom re-test since we're getting Amoon back I'm BEGGING you.


View attachment 124998
Current usage in OU:
| 58 | Mamoswine | 2.762% |

Why will it drop?
Because aim died.

How will this affect UU?
I like this 'mon a lot as now I can revenge kill Lati's again from like 60%. For real though, switching into this 'mon is soo hard, though its slow speed makes up for it. The rise in fighting types once Gliscor leaves and all the bulky waters will keep this at bay, but its really nice to have this strong of a hitter back in the tier. We missed ya tusks.

Welp, that was it. Very tired right now, so sorry if it wasn't as informative as you expected it to be. But these are just kind of my first thoughts when thinking about the upcoming rises/drops for UU, can't wait for them!

Potential Drops

View attachment 125005 | 51 | Bisharp | 3.788% |
View attachment 125006 | 52 | Venusaur-Mega | 3.706% |
View attachment 125007 | 50 | Latios | 3.859% |
View attachment 125011 --> UUBL

Just wanted to mention that the Diancie player can play around most of it's so called checks and counters by using (Scarf) Magneton, as it kills Empoleon, puts Cobalion in range of Earth Power, obviously destroys Scizor and can force out Starmie and Suicune. Mega-Aggron basically can't safely switch into a Diancie either

252 SpA Diancie-Mega Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Aggron-Mega: 144-169 (41.9 - 49.2%) -- 20.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

To me, it looks like the 3 best defensive answers to Diancie are:

- SpDef Hippowdon
- SpDef Bronzong
- Porygon2

 

[Cookees]

Tier shift just dropped! Notable Changes:

Diancie-Mega moved from OU to UU
Mamoswine moved from OU to UU
Gliscor moved from UU to OU
Amoonguss moved from OU to UU

May be possible to use this opportunity to re-introduce Azumarill and Breloom back into the tier..

 

[Swagodile]

Of course Gliscor rises at the same time Mamoswine returns.

Diancie-Mega obviously won't last long.

 

[WAZZUPYOSHI]

Mamoswine moved from OU to UU

the work of pokeaids has been undone

 

[Yung Dramps]

This has been an amazing shift! Gliscor is finally gone, removing a super annoying hassle in teambuilding, and Amoonguss and Mamoswine are back! The former will be great for keeping threats like Serp in check, while the latter will just be a stronk boy.

The only issue is Mega Diancie, but that's almost certainly getting quickbanned, so who cares?

 

[Freshgamer]

Good to see Mamo and Amoon finally back, also good riddance to Gliscor... Although without Gliscor, Mega Mane might start running HP Grass with the rising usage of Rhyperior, Swampert etc.

 

[A Cake Wearing A Hat]

Hey, folks, got a few things I wanna say in regards to the EDIT: *possible* tier shifts:

With Gliscor gone, Mega Manectric is be capable of now much more viably running HP Grass, or even Toxic if need be. In turn, I think this will make mons like Swampert and Rhyperior a little less good at what they do (they'll still be great, of course, they just won't be as solid of manectric checks as they were before) and it'll make Hippowdon and Choice Scarf Krookodile a little better, conversely. One thing's for sure, though, and that's that Mega Manectric will be rather obnoxious (compared to how it was before) in the upcoming weeks while the meta adapts. Gliscor leaving will also make Choice Scarf Infernape better than it was before, seeing as the set lost one of its main counters. Perhaps Gligar will gain a niche in the tier? I, for one, doubt it because of its overreliance on Eviolite and its rather noticeable passivity, but we'll just have to see.

I legitimately think Mega Diancie has a chance to stay in this tier. The ever-presence of Scizor, along with the fact that it's a fast offensive fairy that's not really capable of reliably checking Latias and the presence of mons like Hippowdon and Mega Aggron, MIGHT add up to make this mon not as broken as it seems on paper. Let's not go up in arms and demand a quickban on this thing, because I legitimately think it deserves a chance to see how good it ACTUALLY is in the tier. Don't get me wrong, it's certainly going to be a dominant mon, but I'm not convinced it'll be broken, per se. I could see a public suspect, though. That's definitely reasonable.

That brings me to my next point: Hippowdon's gonna be really damn good coming up here. It's one of the more solid answers to Mega Diancie with SpD investment, and it's also still capable of stomaching Manectric's attacks even though it can more viably run HP Grass now, which is something a lot of the bulky grounds in this tier can't claim. With this mon surging in new usefulness and Amoonguss returning, I can definitely see Balance making a comeback in terms of its viability as a playstyle in the coming months.

On the topic of playstyle viability, now that Mamoswine is back, Spikes HO finally has another option for an offensive Ground-type Stealth Rock user and Spikes abuser combo. I've never enjoyed Mamoswine's effect on teambuilding; I think it's pretty limiting simply because its STAB combo and access to Ice Shard make it obnoxious for offensive builds to deal with. However, it'll definitely make Spikes a lot better, and that's something I'm way stoked about because that's a playstyle I truly enjoy using.

 

[justdrew]

Here are my thoughts on the drops. First and foremost, Scizor suspect should be postponed indefinitely. There should be 0 conversation about a Scizor suspect with Mega Diance and Mamoswine in the tier. Scizor is the most viable revenge killer to both Pokemon without question. Next, Mega Diance is ridiculous in UU. Fairy's have always been fantastic offensive and defensive Pokemon. Mega Diance + Spike stack wipes through stall completely, and most bulky builds as well. Earthpower allows Mega Diance to be walled by no Steel-type. Even Hidden Power Fire can OHKO Scizor on the switch. A Pokemon with this much raw power and potential, and the ability to fit on most teams should not be allowed in this tier. Diamond Storm really seals the deal as with no investment it still does immense damage to specially defensive Amoonguss, Blissey, and more. Mamoswine is also a broken Pokemon. Ice has always been the best offensive type in my opinion and Mamoswine has the ability to break through bulky Fairy-types unlike Kyurem. With Ice Shard it can damage many RKO'ers and Freeze Dry gives it the ability to break through bulky Water-types. Mamo can run Knock Off and Stone Edge so it is not walled by Bronzong or Rotom-Heat. There is no UU Pokemon that walls every single Mamoswine set. Its versatility makes it an undeniable and near unstoppable threat. I personally can't deal with it being in the tier again and making hyper offense insanely strong. Amoonguss was fine before and it's fine now no question about it. How you're asking yourself how we even ban Mamoswine or Mega Diance without a council vote. Here is my solution: We hold a suspect test using UU Open. We allow people in UU Open to freely use the drops for 2 rounds. That would mean Round 2 and Round 3 Mamoswine and Mega Diance are unbanned. I suggest that after Round 3 is over, the remaining contenders hold a vote. This will be a healthy amount of intelligent players and I think would be a good way of holding a vote. Thanks for reading!

 

[DiscoDucky]

Currently, I agree with Cake that initially, Diancie seems to be fine in the tier, but there is a set that I think could put it over the edge. A set that can be exploited here that couldn't necessarily be in OU would be the Rock Polish set. After a +2, MD becomes the fastest Pokemon in the tier that can only be RK'd by SE priority or hard handled by extremely bulky team builds. It cannot be Paralyzed via Glare or Thunder Wave due to Magic Bounce (i.e. Klefki, for example). Given what is currently good in the metagame, Mega-Diancie has a lot of switch-in opportunities as Diamond Storm, Earth Power, and Moonblast as well as strong 1v1 match-ups because of its innate bulkiness, not taking into account the 50% chance to get a random Defense boost. Essentially, M-Diancie's existence forces offense to pack priority almost all of the time.

Building off of Cake's post, Mamo, Klef, and MD would make a really good Spikes Offense core in this tier. The constant residual damage allows for MD to have better set-up opportunities for Rock Polish and make better use of its mixed Offensive stats. Tack on Serperior or Tsareena, AssVest Metagross, and a Scarfer, and you have something plausibly workable in this metagame.

 

[Freshgamer]

This is one these cases where one set will break one archetype, while another breaks a different archetype. Mega Diancie, will, more than likely be the best Mega evolution in the tier due it's incredible offensive stats, offensive typing, move-pool and it's decent defensive typing and stats. However, I think the tier can do fairly well against this huge threat.

First off, let's talk about Mega Diancie's role, which quite frankly, can be a lot. Offensive Stealth Rocker, Rock Polish Sweeper, Wallbreaker (CM Variants), All-Out Attacker. While this might seem daunting, these sets come with various problems, which ultimately 4-Slot Syndrome or lack of breaking power. Diancie wants to do everything as an Offensive threat, but it can't. When running a utility or setup move, Diancie forgoes important coverage. I'll explain this in a bit, but ultimately this why I think Diancie's best set is the All-Out Attacker set. Diamond Storm is capable of hitting Special Walls such as Blissey which would otherwise wall Diancie fairly well, while being a very reliable STAB option for the likes of Crobat, Togekiss, Moltres, Chandelure, Mantine etc. Moonblast is Diancie's Fairy-move of choice which hits everything bar Steel-types or very bulky Pokemon such as Hippowdown extremely hard. Lastly, it's coverage of Hidden Power Fire allows it to OHKO Scizor and hit non-grounded Steel-Types such as Bronzong, while Earth Power hits grounded Steel-types such as Aggron, Cobalion and Empoleon. However, it lacks the breaking power of Calm Mind does, but this set is definitely the safest.

Now back to the other sets. Rock Polish obviously is a huge threat to Offense/Hyper Offense as after one RP, you'll outspeed every Scarfer in the tier. This ultimately makes it harder to revenge kill late game, when your Pokemon have been chipped. This makes Super-Effective priority super important on Offense now, as Diancie can clean through Offensive teams. However, Rock Polish will most likely forgo Earth Power, as Hidden Power Fire is important in hitting Scizor on a predicted switch. This will allow bulkier teams with Pokemon such as Mega Aggron and Empoleon etc. allow to wall Diancie more effectively. Calm Mind will help Diancie break Stall as well as help break Balance or Bulky Offense teams. However, much like Rock Polish, it forgoes important coverage. If you drop Hidden Power Fire, you're walled by Bronzong and Scizor. If you drop Earth Power, you'll have a harder time against Aggron and Empoleon etc. This set in my opinion is almost as good as All-Out Attacker due to it's insane breaking potential, but now you're more likely to be revenge killed late game without Rock Polish and you lack one particular coverage option. Stealth Rock gives up coverage as well, but gives slight utility and frees up a Stealth Rocker slot on your team. Overall, it looks like All-Out Attacker will most likely be better in the long run and is the most safest option.

Offensive Checks

Scizor is by far, the most threatening check to Diancie. Bullet Punch even from non-Attack invested Scizors will OHKO Diancie, obviously though Scizor doesn't have the luxury to switching in due to Hidden Power Fire OHKO'ing it back. Mega Aerodactyl has a strong chance to OHKO without Rocks with Earthquake (guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock) but obviously if you switch-in on Diamond Storm, that's a dead Aero. Scarf Hydreigon with Flash Cannon can revenge kill Diancie and Lure Flash Cannon can pick up a surprise KO as Diancie walls both of Hydreigon's STAB and usual coverage of Flamethrower/Fire Blast, so it might be a usual switch-in on Offensive teams etc. Serperior's natural bulk allows it to take a non-boosted hit (and even a potential +1 Moonblast, without Rocks at full) even with Rocks, and revenge kill with it's higher speed stat. Scarf Krookodile can revenge kill or switch-in on a predicted Diamond Storm, HP Fire or Earth Power and OHKO with Earthquake. Primarina can't switch-in due to it's low speed stat, but it can take any unboosted hit (43.8% chance to be OHKO'd though by +1 Moonblast after Rocks) and blow it away with either Specs Scald or Hydro Pump. Sharpedo is a 50/50 against Rock Polish Diancie that hasn't Rock Polish, but will beat any other Diancie set IF it runs Waterfall. Offensive Starmie can take any unboosted hits (43.8% chance to be OHKO'd after Rocks by non-boosted Moonblast though) and revenge kill with Hydro Pump. Scarf Terrakion revenge kills with either Iron Head or Earthquake. Rhyperior will most likely not be able to switch-in but can take any one hit and kill with Earthquake. Scarf Rotom-Mow, although not too common, can take any unboosted hit and kill with Leaf Storm. Mega Blastoise, much like Rhyperior can't switch-in but, if you can slow pivot into it, it has a strong chance of even living a +1 Moonblast after Rocks and killing with Scald or Water Pulse. AV Metagross or Shuca can take even a boosted HP Fire or Earth Power, whilst revenge killing with Bullet Punch.

Defensive/Bulky Checks

Aggron with Wish Support can give Diancie trouble due to being able to tank two Earth Powers (non-boosted), can OHKO with Heavy Slam. However, with Spikes, Mega Aggron ability to check Diancie is hindered so keep that at mind. SpDef Hippo walls Diancie for days, only with 3 Spikes up does unboosted Diancie have a good chance to 2HKO a healthy Hippo. With it's reliable recovery and ability to OHKO Diancie without Attack investment, it's a great addition if you need wall Diancie. Though it's very important to note that Sand Stream gives Diancie a SpDef boost which could be critical if you try to revenge kill it with something like Serperior later. SpDef Bronzong is a very reliable wall to Diancie if you pair it with Wish Support, as even a +1 HP Fire can't even 2HKO Brozong (has a very tiny chance with Rocks though, but you can just Protect to be safe) and threatens it out with Gyro Ball. Registeel is Stalls best answer outside of Bronzong for Diancie with CM, just know it's risky to switch in cause +1 Earth Power does 51% min and it also must run Iron Head to beat it. Paired with Wish Support against any other Diancie set though, Registeel should hold up. Amoonguss is another great answer to Diancie due to it's great bulk and Regenerator, also being able to threaten Diancie with Giga Drain is a plus. Though with Hazard Stacking, Amoonguss can't switch into +1 Diancie, even if you opt for full SpDef (+1 252 SpA Diancie-Mega Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Amoonguss: 192-226 (44.4 - 52.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, 1 layer of Spikes, and Black Sludge recovery ). Bulky Celebi can take any unboosted attack and threaten with Giga Drain, though once Diancie is +1 it's not so reliable. Suicune can take any two hits (unboosted), but cannot OHKO back much like Celebi (but Celebi has Giga Drain recovery + Leftovers), so you'll have to slow pivot. Finally, Empoleon threatens any Diancie lacking Earth Power.

Overall, Diancie will most likely be a huge threat, and can have a centralising impact but the tier has multiple defensive and offensive answers to the diamond princess. I feel Mega Diancie will be it's strongest on Spike Stacking teams as you could see when I talked about Defensive Checks.

 

[Freeroamer]

Can confirm the Rock Polish set is lethal alongside Mag, a simple core like Mag+Diancie+Lati is extremely tough to handle due to how much pressure is put on the steels that would normally check Latias and Diancie not only by each other but by the threat of a mag trap. They don’t even have bad type synergy lol. Something cool about Rock Polish this generation is that thanks to new mega turn mechanics, Diancie can Rock Polish in its base forme to abuse the extra bulk with no repercussions outside of not being able to bounce status moves, making it even more difficult to stop it getting going. I’m honestly undecided whether I prefer max Attack or Special Attack on this set, obviously on the special side you have greater variety but something this strong at +2 speed spamming a 100 BP move that has a 50% chance to boost defense 2 stages is really something! Obviously having mag trap Scizor gives you more variety in what moves you can run on Diancie, for example HP Grass might be a cool option for the higher damage outputs against Swampert particularly but Rhyperior aswell, there’s stuff like Psychic you could mess around with or even further setup like calm mind or sharpen if you’re really wild. Super scary stuff even if mag is still by itself a pile of trash L

 

[Moutemoute]

May be possible to use this opportunity to re-introduce Azumarill and Breloom back into the tier..

Even when Amoonguss was still in Underused, Azumarill and Breloom were tricky af. I definitively don't think that it's a good idea to try to reintroduce them..

 

[Freshgamer]

Agreed, Mag+Diancie paired with something like Latias seem super threatening. Another thing, although gimmicky, is Grassy Terrain + Nature Power. With Grassy Terrain support from some Pokemon that knows the move (added with Terrain Extender), Nature Power at +1 OHKOs Fully SpDef Hippo and OHKOs Swampert and Rhyperior without the boost. Grassy Terrain also reduces Earthquake damage taken, so Diancie could swap in either it's Mega or Regular (Regular would obviously be better for taking the hit) and dish out huge damage back. It also takes out bulky Water types such as Jellicent, Mega Blastoise and Suicune.

+1 252 SpA Diancie-Mega Nature Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon in Grassy Terrain: 454-536 (108 - 127.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Hippowdon Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Diancie-Mega in Grassy Terrain: 120-144 (49.7 - 59.7%) -- 76.2% chance to 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

252 SpA Diancie-Mega Nature Power vs. 248 HP / 244 SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior in Grassy Terrain: 591-696 (136.4 - 160.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Diancie-Mega Hidden Power Grass vs. 248 HP / 244 SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 264-312 (60.9 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 3 layers of Spikes and Leftovers recovery
16+ Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Diancie-Mega in Grassy Terrain: 164-194 (68 - 80.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

252 SpA Diancie-Mega Nature Power vs. 240 HP / 16 SpD Swampert in Grassy Terrain: 736-868 (183.5 - 216.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Diancie-Mega Hidden Power Grass vs. 240 HP / 16 SpD Swampert: 328-388 (81.7 - 96.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 3 layers of Spikes and Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Swampert Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Diancie-Mega in Grassy Terrain: 116-140 (48.1 - 58%) -- 55.9% chance to 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

+1 252 SpA Diancie-Mega Nature Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune in Grassy Terrain: 458-540 (113.3 - 133.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Diancie-Mega Nature Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune in Grassy Terrain: 306-362 (75.7 - 89.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 3 layers of Spikes, Leftovers recovery, and Grassy Terrain recovery
0 SpA Suicune Scald vs. +1 0 HP / 4 SpD Diancie-Mega: 98-116 (40.6 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
0 SpA Suicune Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Diancie-Mega: 146-174 (60.5 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

252 SpA Diancie-Mega Nature Power vs. 104 HP / 0 SpD Blastoise-Mega in Grassy Terrain: 306-362 (94.1 - 111.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 3 layers of Spikes and Grassy Terrain recovery
+1 252 SpA Diancie-Mega Nature Power vs. 104 HP / 0 SpD Blastoise-Mega in Grassy Terrain: 458-540 (140.9 - 166.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Mega Launcher Blastoise-Mega Water Pulse vs. +1 0 HP / 4 SpD Diancie-Mega: 204-242 (84.6 - 100.4%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

 

[Dreadfury]

Honestly, I think I massively overestimated Mega Diancie. This thing is undoubtedly one of the best mons in the current UU metagame without question, but this thing has some of the worst 4MSS I've ever seen on a mon ever. If it could run a fifth moveslot it would be able to do unspeakable things to this tier (and tbh it would be super good in OU as a result so we wouldn't be having this discussion) but as it stands it feels severely limited in what it's actually able to do.

From what I've been testing thus far it doesn't feel like Sub+Endeavor really has much use in this tier since there are so many fast and hard-hitting threats and priority users that would massively hinder that set's effectiveness. As for its other sets, it requires a surprising amount of team support to function as effectively as you'd expect something with 160/160/110 offenses to function: it can't score as many of the OHKOs and 2HKOs it desperately needs without Spikes support (granted, Mamoswine dropping makes this an incredibly effective playstyle now), and it really appreciates support from Magneton - a good niche pick but a heavily matchup-dependent and therefore inconsistent threat regardless - in order to effectively deal with so many of the Steels that give it problems. It really wants to be able to run all of Hidden Power Fire, Earth Power, Moonblast, Diamond Storm, and either Calm Mind or Rock Polish, and if it could do so it would probably be in Ubers instead of UU, but as it stands it has to lose to a particular playstyle based on its set, and it loses even harder to some than others depending on the coverage options it so desires to pick. It struggles more against Offense if it lacks Rock Polish, and it has a very nasty time against Stall if it foregoes Calm Mind (or maybe Sharpen since that was viable in OU at some point). Similarly, if it wants to run one of these setup moves, it has to give up precious, precious coverage to do so, and that leaves it hard-pressed to do much to some of the many Steels that inhabit and help run the UnderUsed metagame. If it runs Hidden Power Fire it can handle a predicted switch into Scizor and Amoonguss but is left high and dry against Empoleon, Mega Aggron (unless Diancie is considerably boosted, of course), and others. If it runs Earth Power to handle the things that HP Fire loses to, it suddenly has a very unfavorable matchup against two of the most important mons in the tier. And it certainly isn't giving up Moonblast or Diamond Storm since those moves are absolutely crucial, lest it has a hard time against Moltres.

That said, I do think it's going to be a fantastic Mega and its effect on teambuilding isn't going to go unnoticed, but it will be just that: fantastic. Mega Diancie doesn't appear to have such a negative effect on teambuilding that you need to run extremely niche picks to deal with it. UnderUsed appears to be in a pretty decent place to deal with Mega Diancie, regardless of the preferred playstyle. It certainly plays its part in giving Offensive teams a boost since it has great synergy with Spike stacking, but there are still situations where I'd realistically pick Mega Sharpedo - another fantastic pick for Hyper Offense that benefits greatly from the chip damage provided by Spikes and the sheer wallbreaking ability of Mamoswine - over it. The most common and splashable threat in all of UU - Scizor - is its biggest nightmare. Stall teams generally have to run a Steel of sorts and most of them do a fantastic job at sponging hits from it before promptly dispatching it. The reintroduction of Amoonguss - something that had in the past kept the tier stable by virtue of being a fantastic blanket check to many Grasses and Waters - negatively effects it too. And it has more than a few good options to take on stuff that some variants would struggle with - Freshgamer had, while I was typing this out, taken note of a potential Grassy Terrain+Nature Power set - but even those sets seem rather situational at best.

Overall, I feel like Mega Diancie is a bit healthier for the meta than it had originally seemed.

 

[Pearl]

I locked this thread earlier for a short while in order to post a new one with all of the changes documented and more. However, it turns out that there's a high chance that the stats we have received are not actually correct (check these posts for reference), so I'll leave this open after all for further discussion until we receive a proper update on the situation. I highly doubt that the actual changes will be that much different from what we currently have, so discussion on the current drops should be fine.

Sorry for the inconvenience and happy posting

 

[Yung Dramps]

To be honest, with UU Open coming up, I think it's better to be safe than sorry and just quickban Mega Diancie anyway. Right now, opinions on this mon seem very split, and it certainly wouldn't have been the first time people underestimated what later turned out to be a broken threat (see Breloom and Azumarill). I don't see the harm in just doing that and just re-testing it when the waters have calmed a bit, so to speak.

Also, please do not use Scizor as your primary justification that it isn't broken. It can't switch into HP Fire at all, and Mega Diancie can run through just about everything else.

 

[david0895]

To be honest, with UU Open coming up, I think it's better to be safe than sorry and just quickban Mega Diancie anyway. Right now, opinions on this mon seem very split, and it certainly wouldn't have been the first time people underestimated what later turned out to be a broken threat (see Breloom and Azumarill). I don't see the harm in just doing that and just re-testing it when the waters have calmed a bit, so to speak.

Also, please do not use Scizor as your primary justification that it isn't broken. It can't switch into HP Fire at all, and Mega Diancie can run through just about everything else.

Iirc, there's a rule that if a pokemon comes to the tier near to a tournament, it can be banned for its duration

 

[IronKingZero]

As much as I would like to see and use this mon in play, it’s probably for the best this mon gets quickbanned. Diancie forces the meta to adapt to itself, while it should be the inverse. And while it does have 4MSS, if it does indeed carry the right moves to sweep, it will, and quite easily too. Nothing short of Scizor, and a few gimmicky sets of other mons can reliably switch in and RK, and to piggyback off of yung dramps, Scizor can’t switch in on HP Fire...it’s the same case as Breloom, except it has better typing, better speed, and vastly superior movepool, as well as the stats to abuse said movepool.

Overall, I believe Mega Diancie is unhealthy for the UU tier as a whole, and it should be quickbanned

 

[Moutemoute]

How can you tell that a Pokemon is unhealthy for Underused if it was not released yet ?
Currently, our arguments are nothing but pure theorymon. As I often say "wait n see"