np: UU Stage 4 - I'm Dreaming of a White Christmas

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Yes but most of those calcs involve rain and / or +1 from Dragon Dance. Empoleon survives all of them and can at worst phaze Kingdra out, at best burn Kingdra with Scald. Factoring in Leftovers recovery + the fact that Empoleon is burning rain turns, I don't see why Empoleon is not a Kingdra counter. It can be worn down, sure, but it's still a Kingdra counter
Yes they do involve rain because we were on the subject of empoleon being a counter to one of the best rain sweeper kingdra
That's a pretty bad counter to consider, that it ONLY has leftovers recovery and has to rely on a 30% chance to burn to avoid a 2HKO by physical set and can only phaze out. Not only that, but it can only do this one time and needs to be in good health. If empoleon had a reliable recovery move then we might need even be seeing it in UU lol

at worst is not a good scenario for a "counter" to say. A counter should be able to consistently switch in and/or threaten immediately. Something like slowbro being a counter a hitmonlee is a perfect idea of a counter because it can consistently switch in and has reliable recovery. Forretress to weavile is a good counter because Forretress can OHKO with gyro ball even though it has no recovery outside of leftovers. Empoleon can do neither of these things to kingdra besides threatening to scald burn which is unrelaible and can be a temporary solution if kingdra holds a lum berry or is a choice specs set..I would call empoleon a "check" at best, I would even call it a good scout because it can switch into any kingdra set, but a very small amount of times, sometimes only once
 

DetroitLolcat

Maize and Blue Badge Set 2014-2017
is a CAP Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
np: UU: everything is OU now.

We lost 7 Pokemon and only gained 2.

Now OU:
Dugtrio
Alakazam
Chansey
Jolteon
Donphan
Mamoswine
Tornadus

Now UU
Swampert
Bronzong

Okay, so...Rain took a hit with Tornadus, Alakazam is gone anyway, the whore Chansey is d3d, and no more trapping with Dugtrio.

Rotom-H can replace Jolteon to an extent, and Swampert/Bronzong will have to fill the Donphan hole. Swampert should do well as a counter to Rotom-H, which means maybe people will use Rotom-C?

We get another bulky Water to sponge Darmanitan, though we had Milotic, Slowbro, and Poliwrath to do that already.

Bronzong should do well in UU because of Levitate, though it can't beat Nidoking anyway. The extra Dragon resist can help about Kingdra, though boosted Water attacks will beat it anyway...

No new Spinners or spinblockers...

Also, remember that Choice Band Swampert looks to be really good in UU. I'd give it a shot at least. Raikou will have to run HP Grass for Swampert so try Scarf Flygon as a counter. And what about Yanmega? Nothing besides Registeel can take a Specs Bug Buzz with Tinted Lens, so think about that...
 
I thought Mamoswine and Bronzong weren't moving until February? Or has the cutoff suddenly changed from 3.51% to something else?
 
Oh sorry, I was unaware that they changed the way they now interpret 3 months usage stats, now using averages instead of all individual months having to be below the cutoff. Was just about to edit my post aswell. ^.^
 
Why don't you just ask SJCrew since it's his team?
Why don't SJCrew just read this thread since he's on the council? Also last time I saw SJCrew on the server, he was not accepting challenges.

I'm rather happy that Alakazam and Chansey left the tier. Alakazam because I feel it's too strong, and Chansey because it permits more flexibility (although I definitely do not think it's overpowered). The rest I don't really mind. Looking forward to using Swampert and Bronzong in the tier, too.
 
I think we will see a rise in Suicune and Raikou usage, especially Raikou. I don't know who can fill in as the new special wall; maybe Umbreon or Cresselia will be the one. Alakazam will be sorely missed, and I hope that he will become the laughingstock of OU. Swampert, easily countered by anything with a Grass-type attack, shouldn't be a problem. But I predict that Bronzong will be a terror.
 
I think we will see a rise in Suicune and Raikou usage, especially Raikou. I don't know who can fill in as the new special wall; maybe Umbreon or Cresselia will be the one. Alakazam will be sorely missed, and I hope that he will become the laughingstock of OU. Swampert, easily countered by anything with a Grass-type attack, shouldn't be a problem. But I predict that Bronzong will be a terror.
I'm defintely scared of special attackers next round, Raikou's main reason for not having a high usage is gone, chansey.. and even dugtrio, alakzam, and jolteon all who are faster than raikou are gone(not like jolteon can do anything anyways lol)

swampert probably wont be any more useful than quagsire, probably.. I was wondering why it was OU for so long with all the powerful attackers and thanks to grass types here in UU heh I wouldnt be surprise if it fell to RU

Come on Porygon-Zero!!!
 

brewfasa

Formerly fatty
is a Tiering Contributor
lmao. swampert will not fall to ru, it has way too much utility in uu. between countering electrics and a shit ton of physical mons, laying sr, and being a great bulky tank overall, there is no shortage of what swampert can do for a uu team. i expect it to be a top tier uu mon. tbh, i feel like it alone will make people switch from using roserade to other grasses like rotom-c and shaymin because rade can't take an eq.
 

FlareBlitz

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All right, so I'm not sure if this is just because PO's ladder is ass, but I'm finding bulky offensive Suicune really good. It's the only viable water type Calm Mind user in the tier, and while the normal suicune is great at being fat and getting phazed by water types / owned by Rosie and Zapdos, bulky offensive 'cune 2hkos every major water type at +1 and ohkos Rosie like a boss, while easily surviving Leaf Storm from all non-LO variants (and 95% chance to survive one from the LO variant if you have no hazards up!).

The choice between LO and Leftovers is really tough. LO guarantees that you 2hko SpD Empoleon with HP Electric and lets you 2hko Snorlax with Hydro Pump (I know), while also giving you a great chance of ohko'ing Rosie on the switch with Ice Beam. It also lets you shit on Blastoise, doing up to 80% damage with HP Electric. On the other hand, Leftovers allows Suicune to still function as a great tank (not being 2hko'd by scarfcross etc). Anyway, give it a shot.
 
All right, so I'm not sure if this is just because PO's ladder is ass, but I'm finding bulky offensive Suicune really good. It's the only viable water type Calm Mind user in the tier, and while the normal suicune is great at being fat and getting phazed by water types / owned by Rosie and Zapdos, bulky offensive 'cune 2hkos every major water type at +1 and ohkos Rosie like a boss, while easily surviving Leaf Storm from all non-LO variants (and 95% chance to survive one from the LO variant if you have no hazards up!).
Roserade is banned on the PO UU ladder, that would be why Suicune is more effective there.

Their BL bans are virtually same as Smogon's except for Roserade, Venomoth, Smeargle also being banned and Latias, Deoxys-S who never made OU on PO ladder. Though I recall they are currently playing with a Mew ban.

lmao. swampert will not fall to ru, it has way too much utility in uu. between countering electrics and a shit ton of physical mons, laying sr, and being a great bulky tank overall, there is no shortage of what swampert can do for a uu team. i expect it to be a top tier uu mon. tbh, i feel like it alone will make people switch from using roserade to other grasses like rotom-c and shaymin because rade can't take an eq.
People said the opposite about Gastrodon, fact is Swampert has no niche this gen it's badly outclassed by Quagsire and Gastrodon of all things. Also in a tier where Xatu is actually viable as a dangerous defensive mon and Slowbro is still one of the premier walls Swampert has issues getting pass either of them.

The big mistake everyone keeps making is thinking a plain ground type straight up counters the likes of Raikou or Zapdos. They don't, they always find a way round you that is why they are dangerous.
 
Roserade is banned on the PO UU ladder, that would be why Suicune is more effective there.

Their BL bans are virtually same as Smogon's except for Roserade, Venomoth, Smeargle also being banned and Latias, Deoxys-S who never made OU on PO ladder. Though I recall they are currently playing with a Mew ban.

People said the opposite about Gastrodon, fact is Swampert has no niche this gen it's badly outclassed by Quagsire and Gastrodon of all things. Also in a tier where Xatu is actually viable as a dangerous defensive mon and Slowbro is still one of the premier walls Swampert has issues getting pass either of them.

The big mistake everyone keeps making is thinking a plain ground type straight up counters the likes of Raikou or Zapdos. They don't, they always find a way round you that is why they are dangerous.
Unlike those other examples, Swampert actually has considerable offensive presence and his typing lets him take advantage of sets like a bulky choice band.

Don't forget when comparing him alongside Quagsire that Quagsire is still NU, you'd think if it had managed to carve a niche it would be at least RU, it's stats really let it down at times.

There is a reason Swampert has survived as long as it has in OU, it will be a considerable threat in UU.
 
I feel that Bronzong will be an amazing utility/tank this Stage, its resistances/immunities are near unmatched and not even fire types can switch in with the threat of EQ (bar Victini). Add into the mix immunity to spikes and resistance to SR in such a hazard dominated tier, with the added benifit of being the best avaliable counter to 1#, Roserade. You'll also easily have a chance to set SR down each match, a role Bronzong performs brilliantly.

Just take a look at the pokemon he checks*/counters; Roserade, Flygon, Empoleon, Blastoise, Milotic, Rhyperior, Froslass, Weavile, Mismagius, Azelf*, Raikou (2HKOs), Registeel, Bisharp, Ambipom, Stoutland, Nidoqueen, Houndoom*, Krookodile (+ Dugtrio, Alakazam, Jolteon, Donphan, Mamoswine, Tornadus and Abomasnow...)

Aswell as the above, depending on the set/situtation: Suicune, Snorlax, Nidoking, Cobalion*, Zoroark*

Seriously, where the hell was Bronzong when hail was around? Also, I'm predicting a rise of Rotom-H/Chandelure(Specs/Scarf)/Raikou (though Bronzong can come in on the CM and beat him) with the drop of Chansey and a drop in usage of Roserade/Flygon.
 
Is there going to be a cutoff for the tiers set at some point or will bw UU and the lower tiers be perpetually changing due to usage stats?
 
Who wants to have a UU battle with the new tiers? find me on french time, I aint gonna keep searching everywhere for over a day without getting any battle, freaking pathetic.
 

brewfasa

Formerly fatty
is a Tiering Contributor
People said the opposite about Gastrodon, fact is Swampert has no niche this gen it's badly outclassed by Quagsire and Gastrodon of all things. Also in a tier where Xatu is actually viable as a dangerous defensive mon and Slowbro is still one of the premier walls Swampert has issues getting pass either of them.

The big mistake everyone keeps making is thinking a plain ground type straight up counters the likes of Raikou or Zapdos. They don't, they always find a way round you that is why they are dangerous.
first of all, swampert isn't 'outclassed' by either gastro or quag in uu. gastro is ou, and quag, while having access to recovery, doesn't have near the level of bulk that swampert has. furthermore, swampert has a very respectable atk stat that lets it act as an actual tank rather than a 'let's sit here and wall shit' type of mon and even allows it to run a good cb set. as for the cherry on top, swampert can lay sr where as quag or gastro can't.

secondly, what do you mean 'they always find a way around you'? if you're implying that raikou and zapdos are going to run hp grass, then more power to them, but it's a fairly large trade off in a tier filled with shaymin, roserade, and flygon (who's a lot harder to wear down than swampert). the only one that i would personally run hp grass on is zapdos, and that's only on an lo set with tbolt + heat wave.

edit: and i'd be right with ya somalia if i had a better internet connection than this piece of shit atm.
 
Swampert is a quality Pokémon. Quagsire, Swampert can actually attack stuff. Attack! What a concept! With great typing and great STABs, not to mention access to Curse, Ice Punch, and Hammer Arm, there is absolutely no way Swampert will fall to RU.

I don't think this spells a new dawn or a new demise for our blooming belle, Roserade. Roserade has already seen high usage, and has an impeccable reputation as a user of Spikes or Toxic Spikes. Swampert is toast against Roserade, getting KO'd before he can Ice Punch or Earthquake. I think we might see some Choice Scarf Swamperts, as they will be able to OS&KO Roserade with either an Adamant 350 Attack and 327 Speed, or a Jolly 319 Attack and 360 Speed. It's gimmicky, but I believe it's viable none the less.

I think Hurricane is mostly done in UU, offensive Whimsicott is outclassed by Shaymin, and Pidgeot just sucks. I could see someone using Swanna, though, because of the reasonable 98 base Speed, and because it gets STAB Hurricane, and its other STAB is rain-boosted. The best of these, in my opinion, is Pelipper. It got Rain Dish from DW, and coupled with Leftovers, Stockpile, and Roost, not to mention STAB Hurricane and rain-boosted STAB Hydro Pump or Surf, Pelipper could be a threat. Just watch out for Raikou.
Hurricane users left in UU: Whimsicott (77-116), PELIPPER (85-65), PIDGEOT (70-91), SWANNA (87-98)
(Special Attack-Speed)
STAB users in CAPITAL LETTERS
 
I've been thinking about what set to run on Swampert. I can see people aiming to use it for replacing Donphan (no Rapid Spin, but water is a good typing to have).

I've been thinking about Rhyperior in particular, being at a passable 179 Speed with an Adamant nature makes it very tempting to invest in Speed, probably avoiding being mixed for the sake of spreading EVs around too much.

Swampert (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Torrent
EVs: 240 HP / 116 Atk / 56 Def / 96 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Waterfall
- Roar / Toxic / Protect

Sort of a good offensive Donphan replacement (again, no Rapid Spin but whatever). Reaches 180 Speed and OHKOes with Waterfall 100% of the time (vs 40 hp / 0 def). Still survives Earthquake if you fuck up prediction. It just has a harder time switching into things like Flygon if Spikes are in play, but you can always use Protect for that.

Or there's just the standard 252 / 252 + set, but you lose to Rhyperior Earthquakes still (54.46% - 64.11%).
 

destinyunknown

Banned deucer.
Choice Scarf Swampert... lol It's called ''hitting on the switch''

I don't see Magmortar or any Sap Sipper coming on LO Sludge Bomb seriously.

Hurricane isn't precisely the point of using rain in UU .__.

And i agree with heysup, i noticed too how good could be some speed evs to shit up rhyperior.
 

Ace Emerald

Minimal effort with maximum profit
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Vital Spirit Magmortar or any Sap Sipper mon (such as Sawsbuck) could provide an answer for that with enough offensive presence to threaten it out.
Sawsbuck is murdered by Sludge Bomb, and LO Sludge Bomb 2hkos 252/4 Bouffalant and Magmortar.
Edit: ninja'd while calcing
 
Sawsbuck is murdered by Sludge Bomb, and LO Sludge Bomb 2hkos 252/4 Bouffalant and Magmortar.
Edit: ninja'd while calcing
Sawsbuck is also faster, and easily KOs Roserade with double-edge at +1 (from the sap sipper boost). Most Magmortar are scarfed as well.

Swellow is probably a good answer as well, you can't be put to sleep while poisoned and Roserade would get absolutely wrecked by a Guts Brave Bird.
 
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