np: UU Stage 4 - I'm Dreaming of a White Christmas

Status
Not open for further replies.
After playing on PO and coming back to smogon, its crazy to see how much of an influence roserade has on the UU metagame...I wouldnt even say its the spike stacking thats the issue, but rather its ability to stay alive throughout the game and the ability to have tons of switch in opportunities. Since now we lost donphan, one of the best rapid spinners of UU, the spotlight should be on roserade even higher now

EDIT: Ok this is really annoying! running into roserade on every team!! rapid spinners on are every team(blastoise,hitmontop) and even they really cant do anything..Its not even spike stacking that is the problem, its what I said formerly about how roserade can stay alive in a match and continue to spikestacking. lol even i sold my soul and used it.

IMO this metagame has been shit and not fun! Keep spiking and keep trying to rapid spin, thats all it is. Im finding people trying to rapid spin or set up spikes instead of winning or going for the kill. even watching battles are pretty boring to watch becasue i feel like i seeing the same thing over and over again
 
Is there any possibility of Sandslash replacing Donphan?

Even though its bulk, offense, ability, and priority are all worse, it's still a sturdy ground type with Stealth Rock and Rapid Spin.
 
Sandslash lacks priority...

a set of SR/Rapid Spin/EQ/Night Slash is probably decent, as a spinner for sand teams wisp has a 55% chance of hitting due to sand veil. night slash is pretty much there for mismagius because sandslash's movepool is ass (he doesn't even get sucker punch)
 
Deoxys-D is broken in my opinion. I have thought so even in the earlier rounds of UU. It lives forever and plagues the opposing team with hazards. It gets them up too easily in my opinion, and supports the team too well.
 
I totally agree, A set with max Hp and speed, Taunt, Stealth Rock, Spikes, and Recover can control entire matches by himself.

On another note, does anyone else feel roserade is a bit OP?
 
I am in agreement with those calling for Deoxys Defense to be put under some serious scrutinization. Pocket said on page 24 that we might want to give Abomasnow and Hippowdon another look, because those weathers took respective hits from the loss of Mamoswine and the addition of Bronzong. They also were hindered by the loss of Alakazam. I think hail needs a second look, and maybe Hippowdon does too. I am pretty sure (TheBaron braces himself for impending correction) nothing has ever been unbanned in the history of Smogon, but hey, why not start now?
 

destinyunknown

Banned deucer.
Ok i'm using the exactly same team i used last round with only Swampert>Donphan and it's working really good. And yeah, deoxys-d looks pretty scary this round, my team doesn't specially matters about it but still...
 

alexwolf

lurks in the shadows
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
I agree with Heysup and Pocket! Hippowdon should definitely be retested for 2 reasons:

1.Bronzong is a pain in the ass for both Hippowdon and Stoutland (counter)
2.Alakazam, which was a staple in every Sand team and a big reason for their success, is now gone, which means that sand teams just lost one of the few special attackers that they could use that take no damage from SS(loss is general firepower for SS teams)

Abomasnow and Snover should definitely be retested as well. If we ban Snow Cloak this time, then the only thing that remains is Blizzspam. So with another very good Blizzard absorber(check) to hail teams i think that Blizzspam might be fine(i never found it to be broken but whatever).
 

SJCrew

Believer, going on a journey...
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Deoxys-D is just a sub issue of a major one I've been trying to call attention to for some time now. If he's broken for ridiculous Spikes support, then what of Roserade and Froslass? We should be scrutinizing those two as well.
 

Ace Emerald

Minimal effort with maximum profit
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Top Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Deoxys-D is just a sub issue of a major one I've been trying to call attention to for some time now. If he's broken for ridiculous Spikes support, then what of Roserade and Froslass? We should be scrutinizing those two as well.
Agreed, but has anyone had problems with Froslass post hail ban? I mean, it deserves at least a look, but all it is now is a ghost with meh defenses and shitty defensive typing.
 
I am pretty sure (TheBaron braces himself for impending correction) nothing has ever been unbanned in the history of Smogon, but hey, why not start now?
IIRC in gen 4 UU they banned Raikou then unbanned him months later.

And well, if spikes is the problem... why not ban spikes?
 
I am pretty sure (TheBaron braces himself for impending correction) nothing has ever been unbanned in the history of Smogon, but hey, why not start now?
Also, Latias was unbanned for a year in OU before it was rebanned in April 2010.

And well, if spikes is the problem... why not ban spikes?
Because there's a difference between Spikes and ridiculous Spikes support, which is what SJCrew mentioned. No one's arguing Spikes are broken on things like Cacnea or Budew, so that can't be the broken component.
 

FlareBlitz

Relaxed nature. Loves to eat.
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
Deoxys-D is just a sub issue of a major one I've been trying to call attention to for some time now. If he's broken for ridiculous Spikes support, then what of Roserade and Froslass? We should be scrutinizing those two as well.
And well, if spikes is the problem... why not ban spikes?
I wanted to call attention to these two posts because my thoughts are currently running along the same lines.

After determining that Deoxys-D was probably broken, I have replaced it with Froslass on my team and left it relatively unchanged. Froslass is actually performing better against most teams (which are heavily centralizing around Deo-D) - for example, the Taunt mews and Xatus that are springing up are completely useless against Froslass. I usually start the match off with two layers of spikes on the opponent's side and a shit ton of momentum. A very large number of sweepers become literally impossible to wall with spikes support - Chandelure 2hkos every bulky water and special wall besides Snorlax with just Fire Blast, Scarf Krookodile becomes absolutely absurd, and speed boosting sweepers become absurdly threatening to any offensive team.

I'll be honest though. I don't know what the solution is. I am very hesitant to say "lol ban spikes" because that just seems...I don't know. It seems like something charizardnoob467 would write several very poorly formatted paragraphs in defense of. On the other hand, there are so many fantastic hazard setters in the tier that we would have to ban several pokemon, who have very viable alternate sets, in order to balance the existence of spikes.

So I guess you guys tell me what your thoughts are.
 

brewfasa

Formerly fatty
is a Tiering Contributor
that's the dilemma. the spikers in the tier are way too good at their job that they almost always get 2, sometimes even 3 layers up and in a tier where the spin blockers greatly outclass the spinners, this is definitely game breaking. uu is full of great spikes abusers as well, so just sticking one of the big three (lass, rade, deod) and a spin block (not needed in lass' case), you basically have an easy road to victory. there seems to be no logical way to deal with this though because banning roserade, froslass, and deoxys is very drastic, but banning the move spikes itself just seems...tragic. with that said, although i know everyone's thoughts on complex bans, i think the best way to go about it is doing a spikes + rade / deoxys / lass ban. that is, of course, if we do decide to review whether the spikers are broken or not. while i'm not a fan of complex bans myself, i'm starting to feel that that might be the only way to fix the problem while trying to keep the integrity of uu.
 

Pocket

be the upgraded version of me
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
If we really want to try fatty's suggestion, we should probably talk to Antar if such a pokemon-specific complex ban can be implemented (cuz it may be technically difficult / impossible).

However that suggestion is bordering Blaze Blaziken. It's much "worse" than a complex ban as we know it, since it is also Pokemon-specific. I'd rather ban the 3 mons if they all are truly too good. Banning Spikes just for 3 mons who can lay them well is absurd (11 other mons can set up Spikes besides them).

EDIT: Thanks, SJCrew for the correction :x Sorry for the mistake.
 

SJCrew

Believer, going on a journey...
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Roserade was never banned, it was just promoted to OU and didn't come back.
 
Crippling a pokemon by banning only some of its moves to keep it in a certain tier is absolutely the wrong move. If the pokemon is deemed simply too good for the tier, it gets banned, plain and simple. Losing the three principle spikers will not jeopardize the UU tier's integrity. We'll simply adjust to the new meta and keep playing.

Also, if spiking as a play style is too dominant, deoxys-D, roserade, and froslass aren't the only problems. There's a reason why RU almost lost Qwilfish. It's insanely good at double spiking and has so much utility as a defensive/support pokemon.

As a side note, I have never loved Sableye more than this round. It does everything.
 

JabbaTheGriffin

Stormblessed
is a Top Tutor Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
From what I've personally been seeing, it's almost completely irrelevant who lays the spikes. I've seen Qwilfish get 2-3 layers a game, I've seen Froslass do it, I've seen Roserade do it, and I've seen (and used!) D-D do it. Ban them all and they just get replaced by shit like Accelgor or Scolipede or whatever. It's really not the spikers that are the problem, it's the fact that the spinners in UU are terrible while the spinblockers are solid. Of course the spikers being good themselves just amplifies the problem. But I think you'd find that even if they kind of sucked, it'd still be a problem. Honestly, I know it's a drastic measure, but I think a flat ban on Spikes is the best solution.
 

Pocket

be the upgraded version of me
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Or maybe you could ban the spinblocker that is making it impossible to spin.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 2)

Top