[NU] Haunter DONE

Rabia

is a Site Content Manageris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderator
GP & NU Leader
[OVERVIEW]

Haunter is one of the tier's most potent offensive Pokemon due to its solid coverage, great power, and nearly unrivaled Speed tier, letting it pose a threat to revenge killers like Murkrow and Pidgeot as well as walls like Sableye, Wailord, and Roselia. Additionally, Haunter is quite self-sufficient; it can utilize utility moves such as Thief and Toxic to make breaking through foes such as Chimecho and Flareon easier. Haunter can even function as a late-game sweeper, utilizing Endure and a Berry to boost its Speed or Special Attack to become an even greater threat to weakened teams. Furthermore, Haunter is one of two viable Ghost-types in the tier and possesses a great amount of defensive utility; it can spinblock against Hitmonchan, check Normal-types like Pidgeot, and switch into Ground-type attacks from Pokemon like Choice Band Relicanth. Haunter's only real shortcoming is its pitiful bulk, although even then it can take advantage of Choice-locked foes like Hitmonchan and Raticate to switch in and set Substitute.

[SET]
name: Standard
move 1: Psychic
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Substitute / Explosion / Thief
move 4: Explosion / Thief / Toxic
item: Leftovers / No Item
ability: Levitate
nature: Timid / Naive
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

Thunderbolt and Psychic are the strongest special attacks Haunter gets and provide it with nearly unresisted coverage, only relevantly missing out on Cacturne. Substitute prevents Haunter from being revenge killed by Pokemon bulky enough to take a hit from it such as Chimecho, Flareon, and Cacturne. Explosion is useful for removing anything in KO range, be it weakened walls like Lickitung or offensive Pokemon like Bellossom. Additionally, Haunter is the fastest Explosion user the tier has, which makes it more reliable as a way to remove faster Pokemon. Thief is helpful for crippling common Haunter switch-ins like Chimecho and Sableye by removing their Leftovers, which makes them much easier to take down with repeated Thunderbolts. Toxic is also usable to cripple similar Pokemon and has great synergy with Substitute. Will-O-Wisp is very effective for crippling Metang and still does a good job of nullifying the Leftovers recovery of Pokemon such as Chimecho, Sableye, and Lickitung. Hidden Power Grass has a narrow scope of targets, but it's very beneficial for teams weak to Pupitar and is Haunter's best move to hit Whiscash with. Finally, Perish Song is a fantastic way to put a stop to Baton Pass chains. Maximum Special Attack and Speed investment with a Timid nature makes Haunter as strong as possible and lets it outspeed Pokemon like Murkrow and Pikachu. If running Explosion, a Naive nature is preferred to not reduce its damage. Leftovers is ideal to provide Haunter with additional longevity, although if Haunter is running Thief, it should forgo holding an item. Levitate lets Haunter switch into Pokemon such as Relicanth and Hitmonchan that are Choice locked into a Ground-type move and grants it immunity to Spikes.

There are few things in ADV NU scarier than a Haunter behind a Substitute; its great Speed and power allow it to 2HKO much of the tier, and the safety Substitute provides it with prevents bulkier attackers from taking a hit and retaliating. Haunter's bulk is terrible, but its defensive typing and ability enable it to switch into attacks such as Choice Band Hitmonchan's Sky Uppercut and Choice Band Metang's Earthquake, granting it a chance to set Substitute and wreak havoc. Haunter very typically draws in Pokemon like Sableye, Chimecho, and Lickitung; Thunderbolt is its best way of dealing damage to such targets, although if you opt for Thief, removing their Leftovers on their first switch in makes them much easier to break later on. While it may be tempting to use Explosion on the latter two and against other targets like Flareon and Kecleon, it should be noted that due to Haunter's low base Attack, it requires a fair bit of chip damage to KO them with Explosion.

Team Options
========

Spikes support from Roselia or Glalie is crucial so Haunter can pressure switch-ins like Sableye, Flareon, and Metang more effectively, especially when running Thief. Late-game sweepers such as Bellossom, Huntail, Pupitar, and Calm Mind Chimecho appreciate Haunter's ability to weaken or remove their checks. In particular, Chimecho is helpful because it provides a sturdier Hitmonchan answer. Haunter cannot deal with Normal-type walls like Kecleon, Vigoroth, and Lickitung by itself, so physical wallbreakers like Hitmonchan, Choice Band Metang, and Choice Band Relicanth make good teammates.

[SET]
name: Berry
move 1: Psychic
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Endure / Substitute
move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Explosion
item: Salac Berry / Petaya Berry
ability: Levitate
nature: Timid / Naive
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

Psychic threatens Pokemon like Roselia, Hitmonchan, and Arbok, while Thunderbolt is Haunter's best form of damage against common switch-ins such as Chimecho, Sableye, and Flareon. Endure enables Haunter to take a hard hit and activate its Berry. Alternatively, Substitute lets Haunter more reliably activate its Berry and capitalize on forced switches. Hidden Power Fire hits Cacturne and Metang harder than any of Haunter's other moves, although because Haunter must run 30 Speed IVs to use it, it's only recommended alongside Salac Berry. Alternatively, Explosion lets Haunter remove a weakened defensive Pokemon like Lickitung, Chimecho, or Kecleon. Maximum Special Attack and Speed EVs with a Timid nature make Haunter as strong and fast as possible. If running Explosion, a Naive nature is preferred to not reduce its damage. Salac Berry makes Haunter the fastest threat in the tier, letting it avoid Speed ties with opposing Haunter and Plusle and outspeed Raticate, and enables it to run Hidden Power Fire much more reliably, although Petaya Berry is an option to boost Haunter's already amazing damage output further. Levitate lets Haunter switch into moves like Earthquake and Hidden Power Ground from Choice Band Hitmonchan and Pidgeot.

The key to this set is preserving Haunter for late-game; although it's still a fantastic wallbreaker, the goal should be to use Endure to enable a sweep after the opposing team has been sufficiently weakened. Furthermore, avoid revealing this set's identity; by using Hidden Power Fire, you let your opponent know they aren't at risk of Speed tying with Haunter with a base 95 Speed Pokemon of their own. If it seems unlikely that Haunter will get an opportunity to clean the opposing team, using Explosion against a Pokemon like Chimecho or Flareon may open the door for another teammate.

Team Options
========

Although Haunter is capable of pressuring its own checks, other special wallbreakers such as Wailord and Flareon make it easier for Haunter to clean late-game. In return, Haunter can pressure bulky Water-types like opposing Wailord and Dewgong. Spikes from Pokemon like Roselia and Glalie are also useful for weakening Haunter switch-ins like Sableye, Torkoal, and Metang. Between Psychic and Thunderbolt's good damage output, Haunter is still an effective wallbreaker; as a result, other late-game sweepers like Bellossom, Huntail, and Agility Metang are solid teammates.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Hypnosis can give Haunter free opportunities to set Substitute, but its shaky accuracy makes it unreliable. Destiny Bond works well on Haunter due to its great Speed and is useful for removing problematic foes that its teammates can't remove themselves. If using Haunter in the lead slot, Taunt lets it disrupt other common leads like Glalie and Venomoth, preventing them from setting Spikes and Substitute. Additionally, Taunt can shut down walls like Lickitung and Roselia.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Chimecho**: Chimecho can take multiple Thunderbolts from Haunter and easily OHKOes with Psychic in return. Although Haunter can cripple it with moves like Thief and Toxic, Chimecho can potentially have Rest, which helps with its longevity against Haunter.

**Special Walls**: Normal-types like Kecleon and Lickitung take negligible damage from Haunter's Thunderbolt and can remove poison with Rest and Heal Bell. Vigoroth is similar but can also use Haunter as setup fodder with Bulk Up. Flareon has the bulk to take repeated attacks from Haunter too and can sustain itself with Wish. Although Sableye is pressured by Spikes, it can generally take one Thunderbolt and safely use Recover afterwards.

**Cacturne**: Although not too common due to the competition it faces from Roselia, Cacturne fears little from Haunter outside of Explosion or Toxic and can easily OHKO it with Hidden Power Dark.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Rabia, 336073]]
- Quality checked by: [[Heysup, 21929], [Disjunction, 224927]]
- Grammar checked by: [[The Dutch Plumberjack, 232216], [deetah, 297659]]
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Bughouse

Like ships in the night, you're passing me by
is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
I most commonly use 4 attacks with Magnet lol. I think Leftovers is only "good" if you're running Sub, otherwise you should pretty much always run some other offensive item. Heck even Shell Bell I think is usually better than Lefties on a non-Sub Haunter.
It makes a key difference in a few calcs:
252 SpA Haunter Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Sableye: 135-159 (44.4 - 52.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Magnet Haunter Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Sableye: 147-174 (48.3 - 57.2%) -- 45.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Haunter Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 252+ SpD Wailord: 217-256 (45.1 - 53.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Magnet Haunter Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 252+ SpD Wailord: 239-282 (49.6 - 58.6%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Haunter Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0- SpD Golbat: 270-318 (92.4 - 108.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Magnet Haunter Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0- SpD Golbat: 295-348 (101 - 119.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Haunter Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Huntail: 243-286 (96.4 - 113.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Magnet Haunter Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Huntail: 265-312 (105.1 - 123.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Imho the first set should really be two: Sub Toxic/Wisp (Hypnosis maybe even, but I'm also fine with this in OO), 3 attacks + Explosion (or I could see a status move/Taunt here) for the other. I don't think Sub Explosion is an optimal set however.

I'd also stress that any set with Explosion should not run Timid. I run Hasty, since I don't think it converts any almost-KOs into KOs for common physical hits.
It really does make a difference since Haunter's boom misses a lot of KOs. I even run it with 20 Atk on my teams, though the exact calc of why is not coming to me. It might be because I didn't think the extra 20 SpA was making a difference for anything relevant and so I pumped it into Atk instead. It does improve some OHKO chances (esp after spikes), but doesn't seem to guarantee any relevant ones.

Thief w/ no item seems OO to me not main set worthy. Yes it does help you wear down some defensive threats, but also you can just get spikes up...

The endure set seems basically fine, except that Explosion should not go with Timid.

I agree that what's on site right now is not exactly a complete, best representation of how to use Haunter, but I don't think this is either. The sets can use some work.
 

Rabia

is a Site Content Manageris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderator
GP & NU Leader
I most commonly use 4 attacks with Magnet lol. I think Leftovers is only "good" if you're running Sub, otherwise you should pretty much always run some other offensive item. Heck even Shell Bell I think is usually better than Lefties on a non-Sub Haunter.
It makes a key difference in a few calcs:
252 SpA Haunter Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Sableye: 135-159 (44.4 - 52.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Magnet Haunter Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Sableye: 147-174 (48.3 - 57.2%) -- 45.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Haunter Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 252+ SpD Wailord: 217-256 (45.1 - 53.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Magnet Haunter Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 252+ SpD Wailord: 239-282 (49.6 - 58.6%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Haunter Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0- SpD Golbat: 270-318 (92.4 - 108.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Magnet Haunter Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0- SpD Golbat: 295-348 (101 - 119.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Haunter Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Huntail: 243-286 (96.4 - 113.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Magnet Haunter Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Huntail: 265-312 (105.1 - 123.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Imho the first set should really be two: Sub Toxic/Wisp (Hypnosis maybe even, but I'm also fine with this in OO), 3 attacks + Explosion (or I could see a status move/Taunt here) for the other. I don't think Sub Explosion is an optimal set however.

I'd also stress that any set with Explosion should not run Timid. I run Hasty, since I don't think it converts any almost-KOs into KOs for common physical hits.
It really does make a difference since Haunter's boom misses a lot of KOs. I even run it with 20 Atk on my teams, though the exact calc of why is not coming to me. It might be because I didn't think the extra 20 SpA was making a difference for anything relevant and so I pumped it into Atk instead. It does improve some OHKO chances (esp after spikes), but doesn't seem to guarantee any relevant ones.

Thief w/ no item seems OO to me not main set worthy. Yes it does help you wear down some defensive threats, but also you can just get spikes up...

The endure set seems basically fine, except that Explosion should not go with Timid.

I agree that what's on site right now is not exactly a complete, best representation of how to use Haunter, but I don't think this is either. The sets can use some work.
few things here

1) I agree that I should slash Hasty for when using Explosion; that was something I was considering but fsr didn't implement EDIT: apparently Naive is needed for the Pidgeot MU oops

2) Thief is very much worth a slash; it's an incredibly consistent way of crippling checks that doesn't rely on Spikes AND gives Haunter a greater edge against Chimecho long-term. This is the big one because of Chimecho's Spikes immunity.

3) Substitute + Explosion is very optimal. As I mention, the only two real mandatory moves are Psychic and Thunderbolt; the other two slots are mostly filler among the listed options. For what it's worth too these aren't theorycrafted sets; I've used all combinations of moves here other than Thief + Toxic I think, and Haunter never fails to put in work.

4) If you can find out the calcs for Timid vs Hasty on Explosion, I'd like that. I can try to find some too.

5) Magnet and Shell Bell sound like frankly awful options. I can see the argument about non-Substitute Haunter not needed the longevity Leftovers provides as much, but these two options--especially the latter--don't sound very practical. As you argue w/ regards to Thief: why not just get Spikes up? One layer seems to give you all of these rolls while still giving you the option to run Leftovers.

these are my thoughts and ik spink has some opinions about this too, so I'll let him respond too. I'm sure we'll find some middle ground
 
Last edited:

Disjunction

Everything I waste gets recycled
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Top Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
naive fine for boom, thief is one of the best moves it can run, and lefties is non-negotiable because it's just an absurdly useful item to hold. agree with everything rabia said
[OVERVIEW]

Haunter is one of the tier's most potent wallbreakers (maybe just say offensive threats? it's a wallbreaker, but it's also a cleaner, sweeper, and stallbreaker) due to its solid coverage, great power, and nearly unrivaled Speed tier letting it threaten pose (threaten pose btw) a threat to revenge killers like Murkrow and Pidgeot as well as walls like Sableye, Wailord, and Roselia. Additionally, Haunter is quite self-sufficient; it can utilize utility moves such as Thief and Toxic to make breaking through foes such as Chimecho and Flareon easier. Haunter can even function as a late-game sweeper, utilizing Endure and a Berry to boost its Speed or Special Attack to become an even greater threat to weakened teams. Haunter's only real shortcoming is its pitiful bulk, although even then it can take advantage of Choice locked foes like Hitmonchan and Raticate to switch in and set Substitute.

(Fit in a mention of how good its typing/immunities are. Being one of two viable ghosts is a big deal for spin blocking, checking normals, chan, etc and levitate is also a decently big deal. It is "frail" but it has a shit load of defensive merit.)
(I think there's a lot you could more you could say about the mon here, but I'm not really a fan of big overviews. If you think more content is better then we can talk about including more shit)


[SET]
name: Standard
move 1: Psychic
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Substitute / Explosion / Thief
move 4: Explosion / Thief / Toxic
item: Leftovers / No Item
ability: Levitate
nature: Timid <<<Naive slashed
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

The only two mandatory moves for Haunter to run are Psychic and Thunderbolt; Psychic targets Poison-types like Roselia, Venomoth, and Arbok as well as Hitmonchan, while Thunderbolt is Haunter's best move to hit bulky Water-types like Wailord and Dewgong as well as Sableye, Chimecho, and Metang. (Man idk if it's just cause I don't really write these things anymore, but this seems like too much. It runs those two moves mostly just because they are unresisted coverage except for cact and they're the strongest special moves it gets. Don't think you need to go overboard here) Substitute prevents Haunter from being revenge killed by Pokemon bulky enough to take a hit from it such as Chimecho, Flareon, and Cacturne. Explosion is useful for removing weakened special walls like Lickitung and Kecleon (it's useful for killing off just about anything you need killed. Emphasizing that this is the fastest boom in the tier is important since that is one of its greatest strengths). Thief is helpful for crippling common Haunter switch-ins like Chimecho and Sableye by removing their Leftovers, which makes them much easier to take down with repeated Thunderbolts. Toxic is also usable to cripple similar Pokemon and has great synergy with Substitute. Will-O-Wisp is very effective for crippling Metang and still does a good job of nullifying the Leftovers recovery of Pokemon such as Chimecho, Sableye, and Lickitung. Hidden Power Grass has a narrow scope of targets, but it's very beneficial for teams weak to Pupitar and is Haunter's best move to hit Whiscash with. Finally, Perish Song is a fantastic way to put a stop to Baton Pass chains. Maximum Special Attack and Speed investment with a Timid nature makes Haunter as strong as possible and lets it outspeed Pokemon like Murkrow, Pikachu, and +1 Adamant Pupitar (adamant pupitar doesn't exist.). Leftovers is ideal to provide Haunter with additional longevity, although if Haunter is running Thief, it should forgo holding an item. Levitate's only real purpose is to let Haunter switch into Pokemon such as Relicanth and Hitmonchan that are Choice locked into a Ground-type move. (do you really need to include what levitate does if it can't run anything else)

There are few things in ADV NU scarier than a Haunter behind a Substitute; its great Speed and power allow it to 2HKO much of the tier, and the safety Substitute provides it with prevents bulkier attackers from taking a hit and retaliating. Haunter's bulk is terrible, but its defensive typing and ability enable it to switch into attacks such as Choice Band Hitmonchan's Sky Uppercut and Choice Band Metang's Earthquake, granting it a chance to set Substitute and wreak havoc. Haunter very typically draws in Pokemon like Sableye, Chimecho, and Lickitung; Thunderbolt is its best way of dealing damage to such targets, although if you opt for Thief on its set, removing their Leftovers on their first switch in makes them much easier to break later on. While it may be tempting to use Explosion on the latter two and against other targets like Flareon and Kecleon, it should be noted that due to Haunter's low base Attack, it requires a fair bit of chip damage to KO them with Explosion.
(idk if this is a formatting thing for these old gen analyses, but this entire last paragraph could just get cut. like this is all shit that has basically already been said up to this point in the analysis already)
Team Options
========

Spikes support from Roselia or Glalie is crucial so Haunter can pressure switch-ins like Sableye, Flareon, and Metang more effectively, especially when running Thief. Late-game sweepers such as Bellossom, Huntail, Pupitar, and Calm Mind Chimecho appreciate Haunter's ability to weaken or remove their checks. Chimecho in particular is helpful, since it provides a sturdier Hitmonchan answer. Haunter cannot deal with Normal-type walls like Kecleon, Vigoroth, and Lickitung by itself, so physical wallbreakers like Hitmonchan, Choice Band Metang, and Choice Band Relicanth make good teammates.

[SET]
name: Endure
move 1: Psychic
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Endure <<<<slash sub and then put this first move.
move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Explosion
item: Salac Berry / Petaya Berry
ability: Levitate
nature: Timid
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

Psychic threatens Pokemon like Roselia, Hitmonchan, and Arbok, while Thunderbolt is Haunter's best form of damage against common switch-ins such as Chimecho, Sableye, Flareon, and Metang. Endure enables Haunter to take a strong hit and activate its Berry. Hidden Power Fire hits Cacturne (and metang) harder than any of Haunter's other moves, although because Haunter must run 30 Speed IVs to use it, it's only recommended alongside Salac Berry. Alternatively, Explosion lets Haunter remove a weakened defensive Pokemon like Lickitung, Chimecho, or Kecleon. Maximum Special Attack and Speed EVs with a Timid nature make Haunter as strong and fast as possible. Salac Berry makes Haunter the fastest threat in the tier, letting it avoid Speed ties with opposing Haunter and Plusle and outspeed Raticate, and enables it to run Hidden Power Fire much more reliably, although Petaya Berry boosts Haunter's already amazing damage output further. Levitate lets Haunter switch into moves like Earthquake and Hidden Power Ground from Choice Band Hitmonchan and Pidgeot.

The key to this set is preserving Haunter for late-game; although it's still a fantastic wallbreaker, the goal should be to use Endure to enable a sweep after the opposing team has been sufficiently weakened. Furthermore, avoid revealing this set's identity; by using Hidden Power Fire, you let your opponent know they aren't at risk of Speed tying with Haunter with a base 95 Speed Pokemon of their own. If it seems unlikely that Haunter will get an opportunity to clean the opposing team, using Explosion against a Pokemon like Chimecho or Flareon may open the door for another teammate.

Team Options
========

Although Haunter is capable of pressuring its own checks, other special wallbreakers such as Wailord and Flareon make it easier for Haunter to clean late-game. In return, Haunter can pressure bulky Water-types like opposing Wailord and Dewgong. Spikes from Pokemon like Roselia and Glalie are also useful for weakening Haunter switch-ins like Sableye, Torkoal, and Metang. Between Psychic and Thunderbolt's good damage output, Haunter is still an effective wallbreaker; as a result, other late-game sweepers like Bellossom, Huntail, and Agility Metang are solid teammates.
(literally lmao'ing my butt off at how worthless team options is)
[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Hypnosis can give Haunter free opportunities to set Substitute, but its shaky accuracy makes it unreliable. Destiny Bond works well on Haunter due to its great Speed and is useful for removing problematic foes that its teammates can't remove themselves. If using Haunter in the lead slot, Taunt lets it disrupt other common leads like Glalie and Venomoth, preventing them from setting Spikes and Substitute. Additionally, Taunt can shut down walls like Lickitung and Roselia.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Normal-type Walls**: Kecleon and Lickitung take negligible damage from Haunter's Thunderbolt and can remove poison with Rest and Heal Bell. Vigoroth is similar but can also use Haunter as setup fodder with Bulk Up.

**Other Specially Defensive Pokemon**: Pokemon like Chimecho, Sableye, and Flareon can switch into Haunter with relative ease and threaten it with an OHKO or heavy damage; additionally, Chimecho can remove poison with Heal Bell, while Sableye and Flareon can recover health with Recover and Wish. It should be noted, however, that Thief severely cripples the former two, as Leftovers is Chimecho's only form of reliable recovery, while Sableye needs Leftovers to always avoid a 2HKO from Haunter's Thunderbolt after three layers of Spikes.
imo change this up. combine normal-type walls into the spdef stuff since they are not anymore significant or special than, say, flareon. then make a section specifically for chime since it's not really a "spdef" mon and is a tier defining mon.

**Grass-types**: Cacturne doesn't mind anything other than being statused by Haunter and can freely set Spikes against in. Roselia is 2HKOed by Psychic, although it can heavily damage Haunter with Hidden Power Psychic or paralyze it with Stun Spore. Bellossom can easily take two Psychics from Haunter and 2HKO it under sun with Hidden Power Fire. (you set up subs on bell and haunt is one of the best things you can have to pressure rose regardless of if it runs a lure move for you. I would just change this to cacturne since it is unique in that it resists tbolt/psychic.)

do chime > spdef threats > cact for order. you can include rat since it outspeeds and kills you, but it's probably not necessary.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Rabia, 336073]]
- Quality checked by: [[, ], [, ]]
- Grammar checked by: [[, ], [, ]]
shmeat/2
 

Rabia

is a Site Content Manageris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderator
GP & NU Leader
naive fine for boom, thief is one of the best moves it can run, and lefties is non-negotiable because it's just an absurdly useful item to hold. agree with everything rabia said

shmeat/2
implemented and gave credit to heysup and bughouse for their contributions as well. will move to gp assuming no one else has any opinions they want to give
 

Bughouse

Like ships in the night, you're passing me by
is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
I mean you didn't implement literally any of my suggestions beyond a nature for Explosion so I don't see the point crediting me.

I still believe this analysis is inadequate for all the reasons I stated, but it is better than what's currently on site so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 

Disjunction

Everything I waste gets recycled
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Top Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
there isn't really a qc channel to discuss this stuff in and you are clearly dissatisfied so let me explain the parts I don't agree with
I most commonly use 4 attacks with Magnet lol. I think Leftovers is only "good" if you're running Sub, otherwise you should pretty much always run some other offensive item. Heck even Shell Bell I think is usually better than Lefties on a non-Sub Haunter.
Leftovers is good on a spikes immune mon that works as a revenge killer. You are frequently getting back hp as you bring haunter in to kill shit and it is even more frequently more hp earned than Shell Bell since you get Lefties gain on revenge kills, your 2 main moves have common immunities, and you're gaining lefties on turns you're clicking status moves. Haunter is frail, but it is pretty common that it eats a hit from Rose, Whiscash, Bellossom or whatever else early and you want the lefties gain as you switch him in to get the health back to potentially take another hit late game. This is more valuable than the calcs you posted, imo, for a number of reasons.
>45% chance to 2 hit an increasingly uncommon Sableye set (no spdef)
>Golbat does not run a - spdef nature
>75% is already an extremely significant chance to kill huntail.
The 69% on spdef wail is almost significant, but that is one of the easiest mons in the tier to switch into and you 2hko it with literally any chip anyhow.
Imho the first set should really be two: Sub Toxic/Wisp (Hypnosis maybe even, but I'm also fine with this in OO), 3 attacks + Explosion (or I could see a status move/Taunt here) for the other. I don't think Sub Explosion is an optimal set however.
me and rabia talked a lot about what the sets should be and I agree there is an argument for separating sub sets from non-sub sets since they can play pretty differently. The problem becomes that if you're using that argument, then haunter should have about 6 sets since it has so many set-defining moves. One of haunter's greatest strengths is its ability to flex whatever the fuck it wants into its last 2 moves to fit its team. This includes sub boom and even sub thief btw since Haunter is frequently able to pressure the opponent into giving it free sub set up turns.
Thief w/ no item seems OO to me not main set worthy. Yes it does help you wear down some defensive threats, but also you can just get spikes up...
This is a meta defining set. Yes, you can get Spikes up, but that is also why Thief is strong. Haunter switch ins become dramatically less reliable when they are constantly taking Spikes damage and have no leftovers. A lot of 3hkoes suddenly become 2hkoes and a lot of Pokemon don't even become counters anymore (think Protect Chime/Kecleon)

If you wanted to talk more about haunter and share opinions, you can pm me on discord. My tag is spink#9171. I really hate having big paragraph discussions in threads about c&c work since it feels more stand-offish than just talking about what the mon can and can't do in a casual setting.
 

Bughouse

Like ships in the night, you're passing me by
is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
I'm not replying in multiple paragraphs because your post is ridiculous lmao to say you hate them and then write a wall of text but whatever you do you.

Calling Thief meta defining is insane, seeing as it isn't even a main slash. I believe it was used once all NUPL.
Haunter is overwhelmingly Sub with Lefties, as it should be since that's the most flexible set. After Sub, Psychic and TBolt are the mandatories, and I generally agree the 4th move is an option. A status move is generally best imo though Explosion can be fine. Generally though if I'm running boom, I want something beyond Sub. Psychic Tbolt Boom + Taunt/Wisp/Hypnosis/etc is imo better than with sub. The status moves let you incapacitate something before booming. Taunt can prevent you from booming into a Tect on a Wisher. The best available alternative if not running sub is an offensive item, whether a berry or something else, since 6% of health on something as frail as Haunter is rarely consequential. I do understand it is spikes immune so you can regain health over time, but again, the vast majority of the tier 2hkos if not ohkos. Thief is so suboptimal except one particular matchup, which still requires you to predict it on the switch in. Most often you end up never clicking it all match and so you might as well have just had Leftovers or any other item on the set.
 

Disjunction

Everything I waste gets recycled
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Top Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
I responded the way I did because you were clearly upset and I wanted to give you a fair response. If you want to be a condescending dick about it then that's on you.

Thief is good in a lot of matchups and I explained why. Haunter as is pressures offensive teams and Thief lets you cheese through fatter teams. Saying you "often never click it" just makes me think you have never used it and aren't qualified to speak on it.
 

Lumari

empty spaces
is a Site Content Manageris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributoris an Administrator Alumnus
TFP Leader
remove add / fix (comments); (AC=add comma; RC=remove comma; SC=semicolon)
GP 1/2
[OVERVIEW]

Haunter is one of the tier's most potent offensive Pokemon due to its solid coverage, great power, and nearly unrivaled Speed tier letting it pose a threat to revenge killers like Murkrow and Pidgeot as well as walls like Sableye, Wailord, and Roselia. Additionally, Haunter is quite self-sufficient; it can utilize utility moves such as Thief and Toxic to make breaking through foes such as Chimecho and Flareon easier. Haunter can even function as a late-game sweeper, utilizing Endure and a Berry to boost its Speed or Special Attack to become an even greater threat to weakened teams. Furthermore, Haunter is one of two viable Ghost-types in the tier and possesses a great amount of defensive utility; it can spinblock against Hitmonchan, check Normal-types like Pidgeot, and switch into Ground-type attacks from Pokemon like Choice Band Relicanth. Haunter's only real shortcoming is its pitiful bulk, although even then it can take advantage of Choice-locked (AH) foes like Hitmonchan and Raticate to switch in and set Substitute.

[SET]
name: Standard
move 1: Psychic
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Substitute / Explosion / Thief
move 4: Explosion / Thief / Toxic
item: Leftovers / No Item
ability: Levitate
nature: Timid / Naive
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

Thunderbolt and Psychic are the strongest special attacks Haunter gets and provide it with nearly unresisted coverage, only missing out on Cacturne. Substitute prevents Haunter from being revenge killed by Pokemon bulky enough to take a hit from it such as Chimecho, Flareon, and Cacturne. Explosion is useful for removing anything in KO range, be it weakened walls like Lickitung or offensive Pokemon like Bellossom. Additionally, Haunter is the fastest Explosion user the tier has, which makes it more reliable as a way to remove faster Pokemon. Thief is helpful for crippling common Haunter switch-ins like Chimecho and Sableye by removing their Leftovers, which makes them much easier to take down with repeated Thunderbolts. Toxic is also usable to cripple similar Pokemon and has great synergy with Substitute. Will-O-Wisp is very effective for crippling Metang and still does a good job of nullifying the Leftovers recovery of Pokemon such as Chimecho, Sableye, and Lickitung. Hidden Power Grass has a narrow scope of targets, but it's very beneficial for teams weak to Pupitar and is Haunter's best move to hit Whiscash with. Finally, Perish Song is a fantastic way to put a stop to Baton Pass chains. Maximum Special Attack and Speed investment with a Timid nature makes Haunter as strong as possible and lets it outspeed Pokemon like Murkrow and Pikachu. If running Explosion, a Naive nature is preferred to not reduce its damage. Leftovers is ideal to provide Haunter with additional longevity, although if Haunter is running Thief, it should forgo holding an item. Levitate's only real purpose is to let Haunter switch into Pokemon such as Relicanth and Hitmonchan that are Choice locked into a Ground-type move.

There are few things in ADV NU scarier than a Haunter behind a Substitute; its great Speed and power allow it to 2HKO much of the tier, and the safety Substitute provides it with prevents bulkier attackers from taking a hit and retaliating. Haunter's bulk is terrible, but its defensive typing and ability enable it to switch into attacks such as Choice Band Hitmonchan's Sky Uppercut and Choice Band Metang's Earthquake, granting it a chance to set Substitute and wreak havoc. Haunter very typically draws in Pokemon like Sableye, Chimecho, and Lickitung; Thunderbolt is its best way of dealing damage to such targets, although if you opt for Thief on its set, removing their Leftovers on their first switch in makes them much easier to break later on. While it may be tempting to use Explosion on the latter two and against other targets like Flareon and Kecleon, it should be noted that due to Haunter's low base Attack, it requires a fair bit of chip damage to KO them with Explosion.

Team Options
========

Spikes support from Roselia or Glalie is crucial so Haunter can pressure switch-ins like Sableye, Flareon, and Metang more effectively, especially when running Thief. Late-game sweepers such as Bellossom, Huntail, Pupitar, and Calm Mind Chimecho appreciate Haunter's ability to weaken or remove their checks. Chimecho in particular is helpful, since it provides a sturdier Hitmonchan answer. Haunter cannot deal with Normal-type walls like Kecleon, Vigoroth, and Lickitung by itself, so physical wallbreakers like Hitmonchan, Choice Band Metang, and Choice Band Relicanth make good teammates.

[SET]
name: Berry
move 1: Psychic
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Endure / Substitute
move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Explosion
item: Salac Berry / Petaya Berry
ability: Levitate
nature: Timid / Naive
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

Psychic threatens Pokemon like Roselia, Hitmonchan, and Arbok, while Thunderbolt is Haunter's best form of damage against common switch-ins such as Chimecho, Sableye, (AC) and Flareon. Endure enables Haunter to take a strong hard hit and activate its Berry. Alternatively, Substitute lets Haunter more reliably activate its Berry and capitalize on forced switches. Hidden Power Fire hits Cacturne and Metang harder than any of Haunter's other moves, although because Haunter must run 30 Speed IVs to use it, it's only recommended alongside Salac Berry. Alternatively, Explosion lets Haunter remove a weakened defensive Pokemon like Lickitung, Chimecho, or Kecleon. Maximum Special Attack and Speed EVs with a Timid nature make Haunter as strong and fast as possible. If running Explosion, a Naive nature is preferred to not reduce its damage. Salac Berry makes Haunter the fastest threat in the tier, letting it avoid Speed ties with opposing Haunter and Plusle and outspeed Raticate, and enables it to run Hidden Power Fire much more reliably, although Petaya Berry boosts is an option to boost Haunter's already amazing damage output further. Levitate lets Haunter switch into moves like Earthquake and Hidden Power Ground from Choice Band Hitmonchan and Pidgeot.

The key to this set is preserving Haunter for late-game; although it's still a fantastic wallbreaker, the goal should be to use Endure to enable a sweep after the opposing team has been sufficiently weakened. Furthermore, avoid revealing this set's identity; by using Hidden Power Fire, you let your opponent know they aren't at risk of Speed tying with Haunter with a base 95 Speed Pokemon of their own. If it seems unlikely that Haunter will get an opportunity to clean the opposing team, using Explosion against a Pokemon like Chimecho or Flareon may open the door for another teammate.

Team Options
========

Although Haunter is capable of pressuring its own checks, other special wallbreakers such as Wailord and Flareon make it easier for Haunter to clean late-game. In return, Haunter can pressure bulky Water-types like opposing Wailord and Dewgong. Spikes from Pokemon like Roselia and Glalie are also useful for weakening Haunter switch-ins like Sableye, Torkoal, and Metang. Between Psychic and Thunderbolt's good damage output, Haunter is still an effective wallbreaker; as a result, other late-game sweepers like Bellossom, Huntail, and Agility Metang are solid teammates.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Hypnosis can give Haunter free opportunities to set Substitute, but its shaky accuracy makes it unreliable. Destiny Bond works well on Haunter due to its great Speed and is useful for removing problematic foes that its teammates can't remove themselves. If using Haunter in the lead slot, Taunt lets it disrupt other common leads like Glalie and Venomoth, preventing them from setting Spikes and Substitute. Additionally, Taunt can shut down walls like Lickitung and Roselia.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Chimecho**: Chimecho can take multiple Thunderbolts from Haunter and easily OHKOes with Psychic in return. Although Haunter can cripple it with moves like Thief and Toxic, Chimecho can potentially have Rest, which helps with its longevity against Haunter.

**Special Walls**: Normal-types like Kecleon and Lickitung take negligible damage from Haunter's Thunderbolt and can remove poison with Rest and Heal Bell. Vigoroth is similar but can also use Haunter as setup fodder with Bulk Up. Flareon has the bulk to take repeated attacks from Haunter too and can sustain itself with Wish. Although Sableye is pressured by Spikes, it can generally take one Thunderbolt and safely use Recover afterwards.

**Cacturne**: Although not too common due to the competition it faces from Roselia, Cacturne fears little from Haunter outside of Explosion or Toxic and can easily OHKO it with Hidden Power Dark.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Rabia, 336073]]
- Quality checked by: [[Heysup, 21929], [Disjunction, 224927]]
- Grammar checked by: [[, ], [, ]]
 

Rabia

is a Site Content Manageris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderator
GP & NU Leader
remove add / fix (comments); (AC=add comma; RC=remove comma; SC=semicolon)
GP 1/2
[OVERVIEW]

Haunter is one of the tier's most potent offensive Pokemon due to its solid coverage, great power, and nearly unrivaled Speed tier letting it pose a threat to revenge killers like Murkrow and Pidgeot as well as walls like Sableye, Wailord, and Roselia. Additionally, Haunter is quite self-sufficient; it can utilize utility moves such as Thief and Toxic to make breaking through foes such as Chimecho and Flareon easier. Haunter can even function as a late-game sweeper, utilizing Endure and a Berry to boost its Speed or Special Attack to become an even greater threat to weakened teams. Furthermore, Haunter is one of two viable Ghost-types in the tier and possesses a great amount of defensive utility; it can spinblock against Hitmonchan, check Normal-types like Pidgeot, and switch into Ground-type attacks from Pokemon like Choice Band Relicanth. Haunter's only real shortcoming is its pitiful bulk, although even then it can take advantage of Choice-locked (AH) foes like Hitmonchan and Raticate to switch in and set Substitute.

[SET]
name: Standard
move 1: Psychic
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Substitute / Explosion / Thief
move 4: Explosion / Thief / Toxic
item: Leftovers / No Item
ability: Levitate
nature: Timid / Naive
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

Thunderbolt and Psychic are the strongest special attacks Haunter gets and provide it with nearly unresisted coverage, only missing out on Cacturne. Substitute prevents Haunter from being revenge killed by Pokemon bulky enough to take a hit from it such as Chimecho, Flareon, and Cacturne. Explosion is useful for removing anything in KO range, be it weakened walls like Lickitung or offensive Pokemon like Bellossom. Additionally, Haunter is the fastest Explosion user the tier has, which makes it more reliable as a way to remove faster Pokemon. Thief is helpful for crippling common Haunter switch-ins like Chimecho and Sableye by removing their Leftovers, which makes them much easier to take down with repeated Thunderbolts. Toxic is also usable to cripple similar Pokemon and has great synergy with Substitute. Will-O-Wisp is very effective for crippling Metang and still does a good job of nullifying the Leftovers recovery of Pokemon such as Chimecho, Sableye, and Lickitung. Hidden Power Grass has a narrow scope of targets, but it's very beneficial for teams weak to Pupitar and is Haunter's best move to hit Whiscash with. Finally, Perish Song is a fantastic way to put a stop to Baton Pass chains. Maximum Special Attack and Speed investment with a Timid nature makes Haunter as strong as possible and lets it outspeed Pokemon like Murkrow and Pikachu. If running Explosion, a Naive nature is preferred to not reduce its damage. Leftovers is ideal to provide Haunter with additional longevity, although if Haunter is running Thief, it should forgo holding an item. Levitate's only real purpose is to let Haunter switch into Pokemon such as Relicanth and Hitmonchan that are Choice locked into a Ground-type move.

There are few things in ADV NU scarier than a Haunter behind a Substitute; its great Speed and power allow it to 2HKO much of the tier, and the safety Substitute provides it with prevents bulkier attackers from taking a hit and retaliating. Haunter's bulk is terrible, but its defensive typing and ability enable it to switch into attacks such as Choice Band Hitmonchan's Sky Uppercut and Choice Band Metang's Earthquake, granting it a chance to set Substitute and wreak havoc. Haunter very typically draws in Pokemon like Sableye, Chimecho, and Lickitung; Thunderbolt is its best way of dealing damage to such targets, although if you opt for Thief on its set, removing their Leftovers on their first switch in makes them much easier to break later on. While it may be tempting to use Explosion on the latter two and against other targets like Flareon and Kecleon, it should be noted that due to Haunter's low base Attack, it requires a fair bit of chip damage to KO them with Explosion.

Team Options
========

Spikes support from Roselia or Glalie is crucial so Haunter can pressure switch-ins like Sableye, Flareon, and Metang more effectively, especially when running Thief. Late-game sweepers such as Bellossom, Huntail, Pupitar, and Calm Mind Chimecho appreciate Haunter's ability to weaken or remove their checks. Chimecho in particular is helpful, since it provides a sturdier Hitmonchan answer. Haunter cannot deal with Normal-type walls like Kecleon, Vigoroth, and Lickitung by itself, so physical wallbreakers like Hitmonchan, Choice Band Metang, and Choice Band Relicanth make good teammates.

[SET]
name: Berry
move 1: Psychic
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Endure / Substitute
move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Explosion
item: Salac Berry / Petaya Berry
ability: Levitate
nature: Timid / Naive
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

Psychic threatens Pokemon like Roselia, Hitmonchan, and Arbok, while Thunderbolt is Haunter's best form of damage against common switch-ins such as Chimecho, Sableye, (AC) and Flareon. Endure enables Haunter to take a strong hard hit and activate its Berry. Alternatively, Substitute lets Haunter more reliably activate its Berry and capitalize on forced switches. Hidden Power Fire hits Cacturne and Metang harder than any of Haunter's other moves, although because Haunter must run 30 Speed IVs to use it, it's only recommended alongside Salac Berry. Alternatively, Explosion lets Haunter remove a weakened defensive Pokemon like Lickitung, Chimecho, or Kecleon. Maximum Special Attack and Speed EVs with a Timid nature make Haunter as strong and fast as possible. If running Explosion, a Naive nature is preferred to not reduce its damage. Salac Berry makes Haunter the fastest threat in the tier, letting it avoid Speed ties with opposing Haunter and Plusle and outspeed Raticate, and enables it to run Hidden Power Fire much more reliably, although Petaya Berry boosts is an option to boost Haunter's already amazing damage output further. Levitate lets Haunter switch into moves like Earthquake and Hidden Power Ground from Choice Band Hitmonchan and Pidgeot.

The key to this set is preserving Haunter for late-game; although it's still a fantastic wallbreaker, the goal should be to use Endure to enable a sweep after the opposing team has been sufficiently weakened. Furthermore, avoid revealing this set's identity; by using Hidden Power Fire, you let your opponent know they aren't at risk of Speed tying with Haunter with a base 95 Speed Pokemon of their own. If it seems unlikely that Haunter will get an opportunity to clean the opposing team, using Explosion against a Pokemon like Chimecho or Flareon may open the door for another teammate.

Team Options
========

Although Haunter is capable of pressuring its own checks, other special wallbreakers such as Wailord and Flareon make it easier for Haunter to clean late-game. In return, Haunter can pressure bulky Water-types like opposing Wailord and Dewgong. Spikes from Pokemon like Roselia and Glalie are also useful for weakening Haunter switch-ins like Sableye, Torkoal, and Metang. Between Psychic and Thunderbolt's good damage output, Haunter is still an effective wallbreaker; as a result, other late-game sweepers like Bellossom, Huntail, and Agility Metang are solid teammates.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Hypnosis can give Haunter free opportunities to set Substitute, but its shaky accuracy makes it unreliable. Destiny Bond works well on Haunter due to its great Speed and is useful for removing problematic foes that its teammates can't remove themselves. If using Haunter in the lead slot, Taunt lets it disrupt other common leads like Glalie and Venomoth, preventing them from setting Spikes and Substitute. Additionally, Taunt can shut down walls like Lickitung and Roselia.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Chimecho**: Chimecho can take multiple Thunderbolts from Haunter and easily OHKOes with Psychic in return. Although Haunter can cripple it with moves like Thief and Toxic, Chimecho can potentially have Rest, which helps with its longevity against Haunter.

**Special Walls**: Normal-types like Kecleon and Lickitung take negligible damage from Haunter's Thunderbolt and can remove poison with Rest and Heal Bell. Vigoroth is similar but can also use Haunter as setup fodder with Bulk Up. Flareon has the bulk to take repeated attacks from Haunter too and can sustain itself with Wish. Although Sableye is pressured by Spikes, it can generally take one Thunderbolt and safely use Recover afterwards.

**Cacturne**: Although not too common due to the competition it faces from Roselia, Cacturne fears little from Haunter outside of Explosion or Toxic and can easily OHKO it with Hidden Power Dark.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Rabia, 336073]]
- Quality checked by: [[Heysup, 21929], [Disjunction, 224927]]
- Grammar checked by: [[, ], [, ]]
yay did
 

Oglemi

Borf
is a Top Contributoris a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnusis a Top Dedicated Tournament Host Alumnus
Is Toxic actually worth the slash? Your only real target is Flareon, of which I would almost always rather boom or Thief it personally, (or maybe I guess spdef sab and non-rest kec?) and if I were going to pick a status I'd almost always choose WoW or Hypnosis over it. No comment otherwise this looks good, sorry for late.

also lol
If you wanted to talk more about haunter and share opinions, you can pm me on discord. My tag is spink#9171. I really hate having big paragraph discussions in threads about c&c work since it feels more stand-offish than just talking about what the mon can and can't do in a casual setting.
this is kind of the point of C&C my guy, the forum's nickname is basically Big Paragraphs Emporium
 

Disjunction

Everything I waste gets recycled
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Top Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Is Toxic actually worth the slash? Your only real target is Flareon, of which I would almost always rather boom or Thief it personally, (or maybe I guess spdef sab and non-rest kec?) and if I were going to pick a status I'd almost always choose WoW or Hypnosis over it. No comment otherwise this looks good, sorry for late.

also lol


this is kind of the point of C&C my guy, the forum's nickname is basically Big Paragraphs Emporium
When I was nu c&c leader, the bulk of discussion about sets between qc members and writers happened on discord. Information is a lot easier to digest and it much more frequently didn't devolve into people getting mad at each other. It also took significantly less time and encouraged more people to make checks.

Also yes, toxic is one of the best moves haunter can run. It hits sableye, kecleon, chime (worst case forces it to waste a turn clicking heal bell), and tons of other common switch ins.
 

deetah

Bright like a diamond
is a Site Content Manageris a Top Social Media Contributoris an Artistis a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor
GP & SocMed Lead
Add Remove Comments (AC) = Add Comma
Not much to do here, good stuff as always

GP 2/2

garchompstamp.gif


[OVERVIEW]

Haunter is one of the tier's most potent offensive Pokemon due to its solid coverage, great power, and nearly unrivaled Speed tier, (AC) (Optional, I typically think the pause adds some emphasis but this is up to you) letting it pose a threat to revenge killers like Murkrow and Pidgeot as well as walls like Sableye, Wailord, and Roselia. Additionally, Haunter is quite self-sufficient; it can utilize utility moves such as Thief and Toxic to make breaking through foes such as Chimecho and Flareon easier. Haunter can even function as a late-game sweeper, utilizing Endure and a Berry to boost its Speed or Special Attack to become an even greater threat to weakened teams. Furthermore, Haunter is one of two viable Ghost-types in the tier and possesses a great amount of defensive utility; it can spinblock against Hitmonchan, check Normal-types like Pidgeot, and switch into Ground-type attacks from Pokemon like Choice Band Relicanth. Haunter's only real shortcoming is its pitiful bulk, although even then it can take advantage of Choice-locked foes like Hitmonchan and Raticate to switch in and set Substitute.

[SET]
name: Standard
move 1: Psychic
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Substitute / Explosion / Thief
move 4: Explosion / Thief / Toxic
item: Leftovers / No Item
ability: Levitate
nature: Timid / Naive
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

Thunderbolt and Psychic are the strongest special attacks Haunter gets and provide it with nearly unresisted coverage, only missing out on Cacturne. Substitute prevents Haunter from being revenge killed by Pokemon bulky enough to take a hit from it such as Chimecho, Flareon, and Cacturne. Explosion is useful for removing anything in KO range, be it weakened walls like Lickitung or offensive Pokemon like Bellossom. Additionally, Haunter is the fastest Explosion user the tier has, which makes it more reliable as a way to remove faster Pokemon. Thief is helpful for crippling common Haunter switch-ins like Chimecho and Sableye by removing their Leftovers, which makes them much easier to take down with repeated Thunderbolts. Toxic is also usable to cripple similar Pokemon and has great synergy with Substitute. Will-O-Wisp is very effective for crippling Metang and still does a good job of nullifying the Leftovers recovery of Pokemon such as Chimecho, Sableye, and Lickitung. Hidden Power Grass has a narrow scope of targets, but it's very beneficial for teams weak to Pupitar and is Haunter's best move to hit Whiscash with. Finally, Perish Song is a fantastic way to put a stop to Baton Pass chains. Maximum Special Attack and Speed investment with a Timid nature makes Haunter as strong as possible and lets it outspeed Pokemon like Murkrow and Pikachu. If running Explosion, a Naive nature is preferred to not reduce its damage. Leftovers is ideal to provide Haunter with additional longevity, although if Haunter is running Thief, it should forgo holding an item. Levitate's only real purpose is to let Haunter switch into Pokemon such as Relicanth and Hitmonchan that are Choice locked into a Ground-type move.

There are few things in ADV NU scarier than a Haunter behind a Substitute; its great Speed and power allow it to 2HKO much of the tier, and the safety Substitute provides it with prevents bulkier attackers from taking a hit and retaliating. Haunter's bulk is terrible, but its defensive typing and ability enable it to switch into attacks such as Choice Band Hitmonchan's Sky Uppercut and Choice Band Metang's Earthquake, granting it a chance to set Substitute and wreak havoc. Haunter very typically draws in Pokemon like Sableye, Chimecho, and Lickitung; Thunderbolt is its best way of dealing damage to such targets, although if you opt for Thief, removing their Leftovers on their first switch in makes them much easier to break later on. While it may be tempting to use Explosion on the latter two and against other targets like Flareon and Kecleon, it should be noted that due to Haunter's low base Attack, it requires a fair bit of chip damage to KO them with Explosion.

Team Options
========

Spikes support from Roselia or Glalie is crucial so Haunter can pressure switch-ins like Sableye, Flareon, and Metang more effectively, especially when running Thief. Late-game sweepers such as Bellossom, Huntail, Pupitar, and Calm Mind Chimecho appreciate Haunter's ability to weaken or remove their checks. Chimecho, (AC) in particular, (AC) is helpful, since it provides a sturdier Hitmonchan answer. Haunter cannot deal with Normal-type walls like Kecleon, Vigoroth, and Lickitung by itself, so physical wallbreakers like Hitmonchan, Choice Band Metang, and Choice Band Relicanth make good teammates.

[SET]
name: Berry
move 1: Psychic
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Endure / Substitute
move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Explosion
item: Salac Berry / Petaya Berry
ability: Levitate
nature: Timid / Naive
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

Psychic threatens Pokemon like Roselia, Hitmonchan, and Arbok, while Thunderbolt is Haunter's best form of damage against common switch-ins such as Chimecho, Sableye, and Flareon. Endure enables Haunter to take a hard hit and activate its Berry. Alternatively, Substitute lets Haunter more reliably activate its Berry and capitalize on forced switches. Hidden Power Fire hits Cacturne and Metang harder than any of Haunter's other moves, although because Haunter must run 30 Speed IVs to use it, it's only recommended alongside Salac Berry. Alternatively, Explosion lets Haunter remove a weakened defensive Pokemon like Lickitung, Chimecho, or Kecleon. Maximum Special Attack and Speed EVs with a Timid nature make Haunter as strong and fast as possible. If running Explosion, a Naive nature is preferred to not reduce its damage. Salac Berry makes Haunter the fastest threat in the tier, letting it avoid Speed ties with opposing Haunter and Plusle and outspeed Raticate, and enables it to run Hidden Power Fire much more reliably, although Petaya Berry is an option to boost Haunter's already amazing damage output further. Levitate lets Haunter switch into moves like Earthquake and Hidden Power Ground from Choice Band Hitmonchan and Pidgeot.

The key to this set is preserving Haunter for late-game; although it's still a fantastic wallbreaker, the goal should be to use Endure to enable a sweep after the opposing team has been sufficiently weakened. Furthermore, avoid revealing this set's identity; by using Hidden Power Fire, you let your opponent know they aren't at risk of Speed tying with Haunter with a base 95 Speed Pokemon of their own. If it seems unlikely that Haunter will get an opportunity to clean the opposing team, using Explosion against a Pokemon like Chimecho or Flareon may open the door for another teammate.

Team Options
========

Although Haunter is capable of pressuring its own checks, other special wallbreakers such as Wailord and Flareon make it easier for Haunter to clean late-game. In return, Haunter can pressure bulky Water-types like opposing Wailord and Dewgong. Spikes from Pokemon like Roselia and Glalie are also useful for weakening Haunter switch-ins like Sableye, Torkoal, and Metang. Between Psychic and Thunderbolt's good damage output, Haunter is still an effective wallbreaker; as a result, other late-game sweepers like Bellossom, Huntail, and Agility Metang are solid teammates.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Hypnosis can give Haunter free opportunities to set Substitute, but its shaky accuracy makes it unreliable. Destiny Bond works well on Haunter due to its great Speed and is useful for removing problematic foes that its teammates can't remove themselves. If using Haunter in the lead slot, Taunt lets it disrupt other common leads like Glalie and Venomoth, preventing them from setting Spikes and Substitute. Additionally, Taunt can shut down walls like Lickitung and Roselia.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Chimecho**: Chimecho can take multiple Thunderbolts from Haunter and easily OHKOes with Psychic in return. Although Haunter can cripple it with moves like Thief and Toxic, Chimecho can potentially have Rest, which helps with its longevity against Haunter.

**Special Walls**: Normal-types like Kecleon and Lickitung take negligible damage from Haunter's Thunderbolt and can remove poison with Rest and Heal Bell. Vigoroth is similar but can also use Haunter as setup fodder with Bulk Up. Flareon has the bulk to take repeated attacks from Haunter too and can sustain itself with Wish. Although Sableye is pressured by Spikes, it can generally take one Thunderbolt and safely use Recover afterwards.

**Cacturne**: Although not too common due to the competition it faces from Roselia, Cacturne fears little from Haunter outside of Explosion or Toxic and can easily OHKO it with Hidden Power Dark.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Rabia, 336073]]
- Quality checked by: [[Heysup, 21929], [Disjunction, 224927]]
- Grammar checked by: [[The Dutch Plumberjack, 232216], [, ]]
 

Rabia

is a Site Content Manageris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderator
GP & NU Leader
Add Remove Comments (AC) = Add Comma
Not much to do here, good stuff as always

GP 2/2

View attachment 213458

[OVERVIEW]

Haunter is one of the tier's most potent offensive Pokemon due to its solid coverage, great power, and nearly unrivaled Speed tier, (AC) (Optional, I typically think the pause adds some emphasis but this is up to you) letting it pose a threat to revenge killers like Murkrow and Pidgeot as well as walls like Sableye, Wailord, and Roselia. Additionally, Haunter is quite self-sufficient; it can utilize utility moves such as Thief and Toxic to make breaking through foes such as Chimecho and Flareon easier. Haunter can even function as a late-game sweeper, utilizing Endure and a Berry to boost its Speed or Special Attack to become an even greater threat to weakened teams. Furthermore, Haunter is one of two viable Ghost-types in the tier and possesses a great amount of defensive utility; it can spinblock against Hitmonchan, check Normal-types like Pidgeot, and switch into Ground-type attacks from Pokemon like Choice Band Relicanth. Haunter's only real shortcoming is its pitiful bulk, although even then it can take advantage of Choice-locked foes like Hitmonchan and Raticate to switch in and set Substitute.

[SET]
name: Standard
move 1: Psychic
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Substitute / Explosion / Thief
move 4: Explosion / Thief / Toxic
item: Leftovers / No Item
ability: Levitate
nature: Timid / Naive
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

Thunderbolt and Psychic are the strongest special attacks Haunter gets and provide it with nearly unresisted coverage, only missing out on Cacturne. Substitute prevents Haunter from being revenge killed by Pokemon bulky enough to take a hit from it such as Chimecho, Flareon, and Cacturne. Explosion is useful for removing anything in KO range, be it weakened walls like Lickitung or offensive Pokemon like Bellossom. Additionally, Haunter is the fastest Explosion user the tier has, which makes it more reliable as a way to remove faster Pokemon. Thief is helpful for crippling common Haunter switch-ins like Chimecho and Sableye by removing their Leftovers, which makes them much easier to take down with repeated Thunderbolts. Toxic is also usable to cripple similar Pokemon and has great synergy with Substitute. Will-O-Wisp is very effective for crippling Metang and still does a good job of nullifying the Leftovers recovery of Pokemon such as Chimecho, Sableye, and Lickitung. Hidden Power Grass has a narrow scope of targets, but it's very beneficial for teams weak to Pupitar and is Haunter's best move to hit Whiscash with. Finally, Perish Song is a fantastic way to put a stop to Baton Pass chains. Maximum Special Attack and Speed investment with a Timid nature makes Haunter as strong as possible and lets it outspeed Pokemon like Murkrow and Pikachu. If running Explosion, a Naive nature is preferred to not reduce its damage. Leftovers is ideal to provide Haunter with additional longevity, although if Haunter is running Thief, it should forgo holding an item. Levitate's only real purpose is to let Haunter switch into Pokemon such as Relicanth and Hitmonchan that are Choice locked into a Ground-type move.

There are few things in ADV NU scarier than a Haunter behind a Substitute; its great Speed and power allow it to 2HKO much of the tier, and the safety Substitute provides it with prevents bulkier attackers from taking a hit and retaliating. Haunter's bulk is terrible, but its defensive typing and ability enable it to switch into attacks such as Choice Band Hitmonchan's Sky Uppercut and Choice Band Metang's Earthquake, granting it a chance to set Substitute and wreak havoc. Haunter very typically draws in Pokemon like Sableye, Chimecho, and Lickitung; Thunderbolt is its best way of dealing damage to such targets, although if you opt for Thief, removing their Leftovers on their first switch in makes them much easier to break later on. While it may be tempting to use Explosion on the latter two and against other targets like Flareon and Kecleon, it should be noted that due to Haunter's low base Attack, it requires a fair bit of chip damage to KO them with Explosion.

Team Options
========

Spikes support from Roselia or Glalie is crucial so Haunter can pressure switch-ins like Sableye, Flareon, and Metang more effectively, especially when running Thief. Late-game sweepers such as Bellossom, Huntail, Pupitar, and Calm Mind Chimecho appreciate Haunter's ability to weaken or remove their checks. Chimecho, (AC) in particular, (AC) is helpful, since it provides a sturdier Hitmonchan answer. Haunter cannot deal with Normal-type walls like Kecleon, Vigoroth, and Lickitung by itself, so physical wallbreakers like Hitmonchan, Choice Band Metang, and Choice Band Relicanth make good teammates.

[SET]
name: Berry
move 1: Psychic
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Endure / Substitute
move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Explosion
item: Salac Berry / Petaya Berry
ability: Levitate
nature: Timid / Naive
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

Psychic threatens Pokemon like Roselia, Hitmonchan, and Arbok, while Thunderbolt is Haunter's best form of damage against common switch-ins such as Chimecho, Sableye, and Flareon. Endure enables Haunter to take a hard hit and activate its Berry. Alternatively, Substitute lets Haunter more reliably activate its Berry and capitalize on forced switches. Hidden Power Fire hits Cacturne and Metang harder than any of Haunter's other moves, although because Haunter must run 30 Speed IVs to use it, it's only recommended alongside Salac Berry. Alternatively, Explosion lets Haunter remove a weakened defensive Pokemon like Lickitung, Chimecho, or Kecleon. Maximum Special Attack and Speed EVs with a Timid nature make Haunter as strong and fast as possible. If running Explosion, a Naive nature is preferred to not reduce its damage. Salac Berry makes Haunter the fastest threat in the tier, letting it avoid Speed ties with opposing Haunter and Plusle and outspeed Raticate, and enables it to run Hidden Power Fire much more reliably, although Petaya Berry is an option to boost Haunter's already amazing damage output further. Levitate lets Haunter switch into moves like Earthquake and Hidden Power Ground from Choice Band Hitmonchan and Pidgeot.

The key to this set is preserving Haunter for late-game; although it's still a fantastic wallbreaker, the goal should be to use Endure to enable a sweep after the opposing team has been sufficiently weakened. Furthermore, avoid revealing this set's identity; by using Hidden Power Fire, you let your opponent know they aren't at risk of Speed tying with Haunter with a base 95 Speed Pokemon of their own. If it seems unlikely that Haunter will get an opportunity to clean the opposing team, using Explosion against a Pokemon like Chimecho or Flareon may open the door for another teammate.

Team Options
========

Although Haunter is capable of pressuring its own checks, other special wallbreakers such as Wailord and Flareon make it easier for Haunter to clean late-game. In return, Haunter can pressure bulky Water-types like opposing Wailord and Dewgong. Spikes from Pokemon like Roselia and Glalie are also useful for weakening Haunter switch-ins like Sableye, Torkoal, and Metang. Between Psychic and Thunderbolt's good damage output, Haunter is still an effective wallbreaker; as a result, other late-game sweepers like Bellossom, Huntail, and Agility Metang are solid teammates.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Hypnosis can give Haunter free opportunities to set Substitute, but its shaky accuracy makes it unreliable. Destiny Bond works well on Haunter due to its great Speed and is useful for removing problematic foes that its teammates can't remove themselves. If using Haunter in the lead slot, Taunt lets it disrupt other common leads like Glalie and Venomoth, preventing them from setting Spikes and Substitute. Additionally, Taunt can shut down walls like Lickitung and Roselia.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Chimecho**: Chimecho can take multiple Thunderbolts from Haunter and easily OHKOes with Psychic in return. Although Haunter can cripple it with moves like Thief and Toxic, Chimecho can potentially have Rest, which helps with its longevity against Haunter.

**Special Walls**: Normal-types like Kecleon and Lickitung take negligible damage from Haunter's Thunderbolt and can remove poison with Rest and Heal Bell. Vigoroth is similar but can also use Haunter as setup fodder with Bulk Up. Flareon has the bulk to take repeated attacks from Haunter too and can sustain itself with Wish. Although Sableye is pressured by Spikes, it can generally take one Thunderbolt and safely use Recover afterwards.

**Cacturne**: Although not too common due to the competition it faces from Roselia, Cacturne fears little from Haunter outside of Explosion or Toxic and can easily OHKO it with Hidden Power Dark.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Rabia, 336073]]
- Quality checked by: [[Heysup, 21929], [Disjunction, 224927]]
- Grammar checked by: [[The Dutch Plumberjack, 232216], [, ]]
yay this done
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top