Resource NU Old Gens Hub

DPP NU


Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Regirock           |  132 |  46.48% |  52.27% |
| 2    | Slowking           |  117 |  41.20% |  44.44% |
| 3    | Tauros             |   93 |  32.75% |  48.39% |
| 4    | Skuntank           |   77 |  27.11% |  40.26% |
| 5    | Charizard          |   69 |  24.30% |  53.62% |
| 6    | Hitmonchan         |   63 |  22.18% |  49.21% |
| 7    | Sandslash          |   59 |  20.77% |  52.54% |
| 8    | Haunter            |   51 |  17.96% |  45.10% |
| 9    | Drifblim           |   48 |  16.90% |  52.08% |
| 10   | Lickilicky         |   46 |  16.20% |  47.83% |
| 11   | Nidoqueen          |   45 |  15.85% |  51.11% |
| 12   | Shiftry            |   41 |  14.44% |  65.85% |
| 13   | Medicham           |   39 |  13.73% |  51.28% |
| 14   | Gardevoir          |   38 |  13.38% |  42.11% |
| 15   | Magneton           |   37 |  13.03% |  48.65% |
| 16   | Venomoth           |   35 |  12.32% |  57.14% |
| 17   | Gligar             |   33 |  11.62% |  54.55% |
| 18   | Cradily            |   32 |  11.27% |  40.62% |
| 19   | Typhlosion         |   31 |  10.92% |  41.94% |
| 20   | Manectric          |   30 |  10.56% |  40.00% |
| 21   | Floatzel           |   29 |  10.21% |  58.62% |
| 21   | Cacturne           |   29 |  10.21% |  51.72% |
| 23   | Jynx               |   26 |   9.15% |  57.69% |
| 23   | Vileplume          |   26 |   9.15% |  34.62% |
| 25   | Poliwrath          |   21 |   7.39% |  80.95% |
| 25   | Magmortar          |   21 |   7.39% |  66.67% |
| 27   | Sharpedo           |   20 |   7.04% |  40.00% |
| 28   | Meganium           |   15 |   5.28% |  46.67% |
| 29   | Grumpig            |   14 |   4.93% |  57.14% |
| 30   | Dodrio             |   13 |   4.58% |  46.15% |
| 30   | Politoed           |   13 |   4.58% |  38.46% |
| 32   | Muk                |   12 |   4.23% |  66.67% |
| 32   | Jumpluff           |   12 |   4.23% |  58.33% |
| 34   | Hypno              |   11 |   3.87% |  45.45% |
| 34   | Solrock            |   11 |   3.87% |  36.36% |
| 34   | Electrode          |   11 |   3.87% |  27.27% |
| 37   | Rhydon             |   10 |   3.52% |  40.00% |
| 37   | Dusclops           |   10 |   3.52% |  40.00% |
| 37   | Sableye            |   10 |   3.52% |  40.00% |
| 37   | Camerupt           |   10 |   3.52% |  30.00% |
| 41   | Glalie             |    9 |   3.17% |  33.33% |
| 42   | Mantine            |    8 |   2.82% |  37.50% |
| 43   | Ninetales          |    7 |   2.46% |  57.14% |
| 43   | Crawdaunt          |    7 |   2.46% |  42.86% |
| 43   | Roselia            |    7 |   2.46% |  14.29% |
| 43   | Whiscash           |    7 |   2.46% |  14.29% |
| 47   | Hippopotas         |    6 |   2.11% |  50.00% |
| 47   | Marowak            |    6 |   2.11% |  33.33% |
| 47   | Golem              |    6 |   2.11% |  33.33% |
| 50   | Walrein            |    5 |   1.76% |  80.00% |
| 50   | Piloswine          |    5 |   1.76% |  60.00% |
| 50   | Armaldo            |    5 |   1.76% |  60.00% |
| 50   | Persian            |    5 |   1.76% |  60.00% |
| 50   | Quagsire           |    5 |   1.76% |  60.00% |
| 50   | Misdreavus         |    5 |   1.76% |  40.00% |
| 50   | Gorebyss           |    5 |   1.76% |  20.00% |
| 50   | Rapidash           |    5 |   1.76% |  20.00% |
| 50   | Regice             |    5 |   1.76% |   0.00% |
| 59   | Articuno           |    4 |   1.41% |  75.00% |
| 59   | Gastrodon          |    4 |   1.41% |  75.00% |
| 59   | Sneasel            |    4 |   1.41% |  75.00% |
| 59   | Snover             |    4 |   1.41% |  50.00% |
| 59   | Porygon2           |    4 |   1.41% |  50.00% |
| 59   | Victreebel         |    4 |   1.41% |  50.00% |
| 59   | Xatu               |    4 |   1.41% |  25.00% |
| 66   | Pinsir             |    3 |   1.06% |  66.67% |
| 66   | Linoone            |    3 |   1.06% |  66.67% |
| 66   | Relicanth          |    3 |   1.06% |  33.33% |
| 66   | Probopass          |    3 |   1.06% |  33.33% |
| 70   | Kadabra            |    2 |   0.70% | 100.00% |
| 70   | Wailord            |    2 |   0.70% |  50.00% |
| 70   | Machoke            |    2 |   0.70% |  50.00% |
| 70   | Monferno           |    2 |   0.70% |  50.00% |
| 70   | Luxray             |    2 |   0.70% |  50.00% |
| 70   | Flareon            |    2 |   0.70% |  50.00% |
| 70   | Torkoal            |    2 |   0.70% |  50.00% |
| 70   | Golduck            |    2 |   0.70% |   0.00% |
| 70   | Lapras             |    2 |   0.70% |   0.00% |
| 70   | Granbull           |    2 |   0.70% |   0.00% |
| 70   | Metang             |    2 |   0.70% |   0.00% |
| 70   | Rampardos          |    2 |   0.70% |   0.00% |
| 70   | Kecleon            |    2 |   0.70% |   0.00% |
| 83   | Arbok              |    1 |   0.35% | 100.00% |
| 83   | Delibird           |    1 |   0.35% | 100.00% |
| 83   | Parasect           |    1 |   0.35% | 100.00% |
| 83   | Tropius            |    1 |   0.35% | 100.00% |
| 83   | Diglett            |    1 |   0.35% | 100.00% |
| 83   | Ampharos           |    1 |   0.35% | 100.00% |
| 83   | Trapinch           |    1 |   0.35% |   0.00% |
| 83   | Clamperl           |    1 |   0.35% |   0.00% |
| 83   | Bastiodon          |    1 |   0.35% |   0.00% |
| 83   | Kingler            |    1 |   0.35% |   0.00% |
| 83   | Purugly            |    1 |   0.35% |   0.00% |
| 83   | Bibarel            |    1 |   0.35% |   0.00% |
| 83   | Raticate           |    1 |   0.35% |   0.00% |
| 83   | Furret             |    1 |   0.35% |   0.00% |
| 83   | Slaking            |    1 |   0.35% |   0.00% |
| 83   | Electabuzz         |    1 |   0.35% |   0.00% |
| 83   | Pikachu            |    1 |   0.35% |   0.00% |
| 83   | Raichu             |    1 |   0.35% |   0.00% |
ive been looking at old gen NU stats so I figured I can share them too

These stats are from 130 replays of NUPL DPP NU from NUPL 3 to NUPL 7

For the most part I think they do a good job representing the meta, a few things that really stand out to me are:

Code:
| 10   | Shiftry            |   40 |  15.38% |  65.00% |
Shiftry has been a rising threat for the last few years, this year he was picked 16 times and had a 68.75% winrate. Back in NUPL 3 it looked like:
Code:
25   | Shiftry    | 3   | 5 %   | 33%
Vileplume on the other hand, has been one of the biggest letdowns
Code:
| 21   | Vileplume          |   25 |   9.62% |  36.00% |
All Time
Code:
  16   | Vileplume          |    7 |  12.07% |  14.29% |
NUPL 7


Gabite is the highest ranked pokemon on the DPP NU VR (B-) that has not been revealed in an NUPL match



Enjoy
 
Last edited:

Bughouse

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Sure I can comment on these since I been saying this shit for like 5+ years
Code:
| 10   | Shiftry            |   40 |  15.38% |  65.00% |
Shiftry has been a rising threat for the last few years, this year he was picked 16 times and had a 68.75% winrate. Back in NUPL 3 it looked like:
Code:
25   | Shiftry    | 3   | 5 %   | 33%
I've long argued that Shiftry, and really all Dark types are very good in DPP NU. Skuntank is the big dog, since it's the best Pursuit user in a tier with numerous threatening, but pursuit-weak mons. But when the top mon is Regirock, other Darks can shine. Shiftry naturally threatens both top mons with its STABs. But then it also is perhaps the most versatile mon in the tier. You can use it as a Fake Out lead. You can use it as a sun sweeper. You can use it as full special, full physical, or mixed, biased in either direction. It can boost. It can run Synthesis. It can boom. The best switchin is probably Skuntank, but its Pursuit doesn't do a ton when Shiftry flees. It can be easily revenged since its not naturally speedy and its often not investing fully in speed either, so that it can be a mixed attacker. But even then, it has Sucker Punch to keep certain revenging mons at bay.

Vileplume on the other hand, has been one of the biggest letdowns
Code:
| 21   | Vileplume          |   25 |   9.62% |  36.00% |
All Time
Code:
  16   | Vileplume          |    7 |  12.07% |  14.29% |
NUPL 7
Being a grass type that doesn't resist ground will always stink. Fighting resistance is nice, but not so much when paired with psychic weakness, which opens you right back up to Medicham, even while helping stop Hitmonchan. It faces competition as a sun sweeper from Shiftry as mentioned above, and it faces competition from Meganium as a bulkier grass. Just like being weak to Psychic hurts Vileplume against Medicham, it does so too against Gardevoir and even Slowking, something you'd want your grass type to beat.

Gabite is the highest ranked pokemon on the DPP NU VR (B-) that has not been revealed in an NUPL match



Enjoy
It was vaguely usable in the Sand Veil meta before we axed Hippopotas. It's still interesting in the sense that it has Dragon STAB in a meta with basically no Steels, and 82 speed puts it above some common base 70 or 80 scarfers. And other non-scarf sets like 3 attacks rocks, or a sash/lum Rocks lead are also not fully outclassed. But there's still just the question of why? It doesn't OHKO enough to merit its poor bulk and middling speed tier.
 

Honko

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I like that Poliwrath winrate. Guaranteed to hax Bughouse every time, 80.95% of the time.

Jynx and Magmortar always seem to get depressingly low usage in NUPL despite being easily top 10 mons.

This year was the Year of Drifblim. I'm still waiting for the Year of Linoone.
 

Bughouse

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I would not include any stats from when sand or hail were legal. It was a very different meta.
 

Honko

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True, but the stats Raseri posted already include some Hippo and Snover usage from NUPL3. So either include both or neither imo.
 

Earthworm

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Hi old gen NUers, just wanted to suggest some resource updates for GSC since the resources in the first few posts of this thread are very outdated. Sevi 7 and Shellnuts might also be interested in suggesting resources for the newly created RBY NU, which is currently a ladder on PS.

Sample teams: Can use the RoA samples for now. These are perhaps a little bit dated now considering how rapidly the metagame has been changing, but we can always update them again later.

Viability rankings: Please link to the VR for the updated tier: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/gsc-nu-viability-rankings.3665219/

Replays: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen2nu-1179208965
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen2nu-1102276632
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen2nu-1042815404
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen2nu-492207
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen2nu-1147152780
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen2nu-1179205853
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen2nu-1052422966
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen2nu-1055881929-1d9bnmzmd1oaz9l4trtnzvkc3q680r8pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen2nu-1178802434-y1lcf035y09kh6tzwzaqan3djfb6ylcpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen2nu-1174948634
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen2nu-1057184071-85xbmyi0c90uw750911j3rsl078phsmpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen2nu-1175076229
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen2nu-1180502403
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen2nu-1179203460
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen2nu-1175515690
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen2nu-1172909617
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen2nu-1179200123

Resources:
Role compendium: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/gsc-nu-2020-discussion.3658394/post-8520988 by ReeceHughes aka CentaurMM6
Speed tiers: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/gsc-nu-2020-discussion.3658394/post-8588624 by ReeceHughes aka CentaurMM6
YouTube: GSC NU videos on cherryb0ng's channel
No others yet in the current meta that I'm aware of.
Smogdex/sets: WIP (actually in progress)

Thanks and enjoy!!
 
Last edited:

poh

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hi! i wanna preface this post that this will be about the sm nu meta and the sm nu vr specifically.
when playing for nu snake and compiling usage stats for it i've noticed that some pokemon are in my opinion ranked wrongly.

heliolisk is currently one of the 4 s-ranked mons along with passimian, incineroar and slowking. i'd like to see heliolisk drop to a+ cause i don't think it's on the same level of the other s-rank mons. an argument of why i think it's not s is its splashability, heliolisk is not something you can easily slot onto a team, you rather build with it from the start (if that makes sense). the meta has also adapted to it extremely well; steelix and togedemaru are both in the top5 used mons over the last relevant sm nu tours (nu snake draft & ssd III). i'm not saying helio is bad, it's just not on the same level of the other s-ranks. heliolisk has also been barely used in those tours -> not splashable (important s rank trait) -> heliolisk ain't s-rank worthy.
tl;dr: helio is good, just not s-rank good

the vr doesn't reflect how important this mon is. currently at a- and i wanna argue it should be at least a. this mon gives you so much breating room with its excellent role compression. it doesn't have the same power you'd want from a cleaner like a scarf passimian/delphox but it more than makes up for it with its typing and general utility. like mentioned earlier, togedemaru has been one of the most popular mons in sm nu over the years and with good reason.

there are a handful of other mons that should be ranked differently i think but i mainly wanted to discuss these 2.
i'm gonna tag some sm nu connoisseurs to spark some discussion, feel free to respond!

 

Rabia

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for starters, I'd like to see the sm nu vr no longer ranked by viability within the higher subranks; I think it's very pointless to debate about whether Magmortar is better than Sceptile lol

when looking at the lower ranks (anything B or below), the following Pokemon I think should all go up:

:victreebel: It's not Vileplume, but Strength Sap + Sleep Powder and that typing is still very hard to play against, and Victreebel has the benefits of being faster than Vileplume, which opens up some nicer Speed points for it

:mismagius: I think it's been overrated a fairly good bit in recent Discord discussions, but Mismagius is not too hard to support. I definitely feel Nasty Plot + Protect is its best set, and whichever Z-Crystal you chose is gonna make some good mileage against common defensive cores

:medicham: still sort of awkward to fit on teams because Passimian is God, but it's a scary breaker that warrants more respect

:abomasnow-mega: it's better than Mega Glalie and should just swap places with it tbh

I think we should add an S- rank; I'd definitely put Heliolisk above what we have in A+ right now, but I'd be hard pressed to say it's on the level of the other S rank Pokemon. Ideally, S- would probably be just Slowking and Heliolisk, but I could see an argument to put even Aerodactyl or Steelix in there

:rhydon: should drop; it's still good, but ranking it above Druddigon feels very wrong to me

:sigilyph: this Pokemon is just unfair. the Z-Toxic + Calm Mind sets that get used a bit now are annoying as hell and add another level of complication to playing against it; you can't really ever afford to play passive versus it because it just abuses its dummy good coverage to bop whatever you throw at it, and its defensive utility through Magic Guard and Roost makes slowly wearing it down nigh impossible

:togedemaru: sure, it can go up to A; it's the second best Choice Scarf Pokemon behind Passimian and offers some unique role compression
 

lax

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the meta has changed a bit since the times of SM being the primary gens, so some shifts are probably necessary for the VR. the formatting on the post will be awful for sure, but I'm just throwing around random thoughts about how sm has changed

honestly, I still think Heliolisk is S rank worthy, but I do agree that if there was an S-, it would fit better there. helio's wr in the recent NU snake was 7 wins out of 10 games, a stark contrast to the past nupl where it got 6 wins out of 16 games. not really sure what changed here, but I always thought what was scary the most about helio was how it acts in the builder. I feel like, from watching sm games over the past tours, a non-choiced either z/life orb/ebelt helio set would just destroy most teams if predicted correctly. on the other hand, specs helio would claim every single team if you always predicted correctly, but obviously that's pretty difficult especially when the opposing team has a seis, lix, ferro or anything that really bugs it. I suppose a lot of mons using tect like steelix and xatu really limit how it acts, but I really don't see how a helio that can freely change moves doesn't just destroy most teams. here are 2 replays from snake finals, and most teams just adopt the toge + grass route to stop helio. z focus helio would destroy all of these teams, and vs the decidueye team you can just spam volt and threaten the electric immunes with super effective moves. even pursuiting the decid would let helio win
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nu-1259679448
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nu-1259069918

buuuut none of these teams used it, so I might agree with lowering it in viability on the fact that people don't really seem to use it, yet were calling it an "S" tier mon. it's strange to compare it to the other s ranks because they all have top 5 usage in tournaments

I like the idea of an S- tier, although it looks unconventional, but I would add helio, toge and steelix to it. if not, moving them to A+ would also be fair. helio for reasons listed above, toge and steelix just have the god typing and check a lot of the offensive threats that are spammed, mainly being comfey, aero, helio (KIND OF). toge's access to lightningrod and u turn just makes it a super splashable mon for speed control, typing, and honestly solid offensive prowess. it isn't like GODly, but it always does its job of pivoting, preventing volts and switching into threats. would also be fine with seeing it at A, though

I agree that rhydon kinda sucks rn, it doesn't even successfully up vs xatu's, lol they all run grass knot and you have to be max attack to land an edge, but if you're max attack grass knot does a billion more to you.. etc

I think I'd lower blastoise a little. it does a great job of hard countering tox tect steelix and checking incineroar, but if it ever gets knocked it's the most useless pokemon ever. and if you face a grass/ghost, you can spread a toxic but you're taking chip everytime you switch into the hazards you can't remove. it also limits the rest of your team when you can't remove hazards, because things weak to it will hate switching in of course. if you do use the z ice set, it requires special investment to ohko dhelmise and idt it ever ohkos decid, but it also would eventually lose to a long term steelix or if it ever gets status'd. I'd think it goes to A- or even B+ because it still has solid 1v1 matchups vs most of the hazard setters

comfey probably deserves A+ at this point. in sm, it can run whatever coverage the team needs with ground for toge/steelix, fire for ferro/steelix, and psychic for the poisons. revolving your team's gameplan around a late game comfey sweep is a tried and true strategy, and I truly think it's one of the scariest mons in the tier. if my main comfey answer is steelix, I'm gonna play like such a wimp with it and never let it be knocked (unless I have a wish vap for ex) and only make offensive plays if it's required. whenever I see the demon hawaiian necklace, I always think about how I can prevent it from doing obnoxious things and sweeping me. out of the current S-A+ mons, I'd say comfey probably beats all of them handedly except for steelix. not necessarily in a 1v1, but if weez or garb ever get chipped to ~65 ish, comfey can just one shot with +1 hp psychic. it needs minimal chip to go off

last one I think could move up is scrafty due to its annoying as hell bulk and the ability to spam rest + shed skin and knock off. it's hard countered by fairies, and passimian to a degree, but the most common fairies are easily chipped long term (comfey, whimsicott) and you can chip them further by going to a helm/iron barbs mon on the draining kiss they use to recover some of the knock chip and just switching to your whims counter. if you knock one of these two fairies, you win the long game for sure assuming they always have to switch in on your scrafty. passimian also can be chipped all the way down, and it can reach a point where close combat doesn't do enough and the scrafty can get a +1 drain on the -1 passimian and ko it. it's just such an annoying mon and can fit on many teams as a bulky counter to many things, so I'd move it pretty high tbh like A but I'm curious what others would think

anyone agree/disagree?
 

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