B R A I N L I C K E R
Banned deucer.
24 missed in a row... yikes
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Official NBA '17-18 Season Thread
- Thread starter trikx_insane
- Start date
- Status
D'Antoni once again gasses out his group
Feel sorry for you tbh, the 2016 Finals was probably the greatest championship I've ever witnessed in professional sports. And it topped the 2nd greatest championship I've ever witnessed in professional sports which happened in the NBA in 2013.
There have been some incredible, historic playoffs in the last decade. Everything was boring af last year but that's just one season.
You must've forgotten the DeAndre-to-Dallas-oh-wait-Clippers incident.
dude it's up there
the three we've mentioned, when the Chris Paul to the Lakers trade got vetoed, and the day LeBron posted the Arthur mean with "mood"
it's the NBA Twitter Pantheon (all credit to rob perez for this btw)
You guys talking about the accusations of Colangelo using anonymous Twitter accounts to blame players and other executives for his mistakes over the past two seasons?
I just finished reading a long article about it over on the ringer. I feel sorry for philly fans having that clown running their franchise. He's horribly overrated
I just finished reading a long article about it over on the ringer. I feel sorry for philly fans having that clown running their franchise. He's horribly overrated
would you say it's up there with releasing celebratory confetti in a playoff game you lost?
That was ordinary confetti. Find a new slant
LeBron to LA
(2) Golden State Warriors versus (4) Cleveland Cavaliers IV: Why the Fuck Are We Doing This?
Fourth year in a row, is it? I think fans are beginning to tire out from this. Like, a rivalry typically creates excitement for many people but when it’s this consecutive, you only begin to beg for new faces. I think the silver lining here is that we at least saw both finalists look vulnerable; especially what is considered the most talented team of all-time be on the brink of elimination. How both teams got here is quite a story to tell.
Cleveland’s season has been a roller coaster starting in last year’s offseason. It began with the trade of Irving, players came back out-of-shape, Lue couldn’t find a decent rotation, LeBron played the most uninspired defense any superstar has yet to display, and Isaiah Thomas not fitting in the way everyone imagined. Cleveland’s central problem was its near bottom-ranked defensive efficiency which historically points to being nowhere near a contender… yet here they are thanks to LeBron once again.
This team looked worse and worse as the months went by including the playoffs, LeBron always seems to spit in the analytics and win. Every year, LeBron seems to push the boundaries of how important and how great a player has to be for their team.
Golden State’s path to the Finals is also interesting. They’ve coasted the regular season which isn’t that surprising to most people, but their injuries somewhat hid how truly great they were for a time when the seasoning was rounding out; it’d just been that long since we’ve seen this team truly dialed in. Nobody really believed this team even had a chance of losing until the Houston series. Even though Houston did not win the series, I feel it will play a huge part in Golden State’s chances of winning the Finals.
Houston basically has laid out a blueprint for how to beat this team to Cleveland: force them to play more isolations and mid-range than they’d like, switch everything, take advantage of their inexperienced centers, and make it a grind-it-out style type of game. Not only did Houston lay the blueprint, but it forced them to play more playoff games than last year. Last year, they had ample rest and great turnarounds. This year? Golden State will play Game 1 of the Finals two days after a game seven. A game seven that was every other day since the third game. This team will likely still be tired, and that plays more in the favor of Cleveland than it ever would for Golden State.
Now, after this game, there will be more rest between games than the conference finals series, but I still feel like that would favor LeBron more than Golden State because his stamina means a lot more to Cleveland than the stamina of Golden State’s all-stars. Overall, they have a major advantage in Game 1, and winning Game 1 would significantly increase their chances of winning the series.
So, I’m going to lay out how I feel the best way to look at this series for the fourth consecutive time. The basic premise will be… how close Cleveland can simulate Houston’s schemes and if Golden State can somehow get LeBron to exert more energy.
This series is going to be closer than most people think; Vegas has awarded the most lopsided odds to Golden State since 2002. While it’s understandable as to why they’re this big of a favorite, there’s a serious case for Cleveland to win this I feel many people aren’t considering.
The status of Iguodala is crucial. Iguodala is what allows Golden State to play their deadliest, most battle-tested line-up. The effect of his absence is more felt like a domino effect… it means more minutes for Bell, Looney, Young, etc. It also creates a shorter rotation which is more likely to set in fatigue for Golden State’s all-stars; we’ve already seen this effect with Draymond Green. Iguodala is also Golden State’s best answer for LeBron throughout most of the game since he was the primary defender throughout most of last year’s Finals (plus-79 with him on the floor, minus-49 when off. In addition to this, LeBron shot 49% with Iguodala on the floor versus 55% when off). I understand Durant also wasn’t a bad defender against LeBron last year, but this year’s Durant feels slightly different. He’s playing more games, shooting less efficiently, and getting beat on the glass like hell. If that’s the only feasible option you have to throw at against LeBron, there’s no way I can confidently say Golden State shouldn’t worry about how the forward match-up plays out.
Also, if people remember how Cleveland took advantage of Golden State outside of Curry switches in 2016, they also took advantage of Ezeli switches on LeBron. How much you want to bet Lue isn’t licking his chops at the aspect of Looney, Bell, or worse, West and Pachulia being switched out on LeBron? Cleveland’s overall offensive attack is much more potent with Iguodala missing, so the more games he misses (especially Game 1) the better chance Cleveland has scoring against Golden State.
With the increase in minutes of guys like Looney, Bell, Young, etc, LeBron (and Love if he plays) get more opportunities to rest on defense and roam as help defenders. I mean, you could do that with Iguodala to a certain extent, but he was at least a threat to drive and shoot. Not to mention, if Love is healthy, Looney/Bell can’t possibly be ready to play up to the level of an all-star who’s had multiple appearances in the Finals (Love).
On the flipside, Golden State will likely be the best team to force Cleveland’s secondary scorers to struggle. The way they played Holiday back in round 2 still has relevance. Hill and Clarkson will need to contribute especially if Love is absent. We’ve never actually seen Hill on Curry ever in the playoffs; I honestly feel like Hill would be a fantastic defender against Golden State. He’s a lot like Paul in which he has the smarts, and the bonus of having more size and length to still challenge guys like Thompson and Durant when switched onto. This is why I feel Cleveland can somewhat emulate the switching strategy Houston did to draw out more time from the shot clock. But offensively, someone on Cleveland has to make something happen. Irving was a huge plus-factor in the past two years, but LeBron still somehow managed to get six games out of the 2014 team.
Tristan Thompson is an interesting guy. Golden State got killed on the class in the latter half of the conference finals, and if you get killed by a guy of Capela’s size, one has to think how much of a factor Tristan Thompson will be. Cleveland can’t expect to win without him playing at least 30+ minutes. It increases their chances of mucking the game up and drawing out possessions. This is a style Cleveland played that worked in both 2015.
On the flipside, Golden State’s has a significant talent advantage going into this series. They could still win even if Cleveland minimized possessions. So, what if Iguodala is only missing one game? Then what? Cleveland still doesn’t have too many options with a healthy Iguodala. LeBron at center would be your best bet and could prove effective given that Draymond has played uncharacteristically bad in the last series in shooting; it gives LeBron another roam and rest option. The only problem with that is the other four players versus Cleveland’s other four players and it’d be taxing on a guy who’s already taxed. If they can rotate off Green, blitz Curry, and try to get Durant to isolate, that’d be their best option against the Hampton Five
More good news for Golden State: Cleveland’s defense isn’t as effective at switching overall in comparison to Houston. I mean, I’m sure they’ll run it, but the only potential plus defenders are Hill and Hood. Also, Houston was a team that switched all year. They rotate with a purpose and identity; switching isn’t Cleveland’s identity, so naturally, it’s not going to run like a well-oiled machine. This team is very mistake prone, and that just might be enough to do them in defensively.
This might have been more than enough to talk about in what is essentially a four consecutive match-up but what I find most interesting is that no matter how many times these teams face each other, you learn something new about the nuances of what actually goes in a series such as coaching, player rhythm/fatigue, and the effects of just missing one to three previous players. This series will be very interesting in seeing who or what are the difference makers in winning games between titans.
Who do I favor …? I feel there are strong arguments for both teams. Cleveland’s overall analytics are still troublesome. There’s a reason why this is the most lopsided finals odds-wise. They improved their defense but not by much, their three-point shooting is unreliable, and LeBron is worn out.
On the other hand, Golden State is fatigued too, and it really showed in Game 7 on the glass. Houston laid out a clear blueprint for Cleveland, and Draymond, Looney, and Bell just don’t seem okay right now; call it a gut thing.
Cleveland has a lot of ways it can go about this. They can go the pound-it-to-LeBron and Thompson carries the glass way (2015 without Irving and Love), they can go in a defense/offense balanced approach with a LeBron/Green/Love frontline, they can go all physical and bully ball their way with LeBron/Love/Thompson, or do what they tried last year with LeBron at center and have four wing players.
Whatever it is, they've had plenty of film to watch, plenty of experience playing this team at high stakes, and plenty of experimentation throughout the playoffs. The faster Lue finds a crack, the better.
I honestly feel like Cleveland’s approach to this series after four years and seeing vulnerable aspects of Golden State significantly improves their chances. I’m also unsure of Iguodala’s status and effectiveness; using analytics clearly does not phase LeBron teams this year, but that’s really the only convincing metric I can use for Golden State at this point: analytics.
Outside of analytics. Cleveland has the tools to me to win. They’re nowhere near the favorites, and they need a lot of things to go right, but they have the tools. They could have the mismatches, they could have the rebounding, and they likely have the strategy. This series is near 50/50 to me, but I’m going to predict Cleveland simply because Golden State feels vulnerably fatigued to any ounce of slowdown Cleveland could cause, and that that would be enough to always have Cleveland within striking distance.
Cleveland wins if Lue finds a way to place LeBron where he still has energy and can contribute in a way good way. That might be playing center and roaming off Green or taking advantage of Iguodala’s absence and attacking in spots where there’s mismatches or it might be finding use in a Love/Thompson line-up and just having him switch off of the least threatening players on defense. Jeff Green, Hill, Hood, Nance, and Thompson play a switching defense that’s up to par and forces Golden State in isolations. Durant might have learned from his losses against Houston, but the fact remains that Golden State’s offense is better when the ball is in Curry’s hands as opposed to Durant’s. Tristan Thompson’s and perhaps even Nance’s ability to bully and rebound in the paint would significantly help Cleveland’s chance in slowing the game down to a halt. I’m surprised I haven’t mentioned Cleveland attacking Curry through LeBron, but that’s in every Golden State and Cleveland series, isn’t it?
Golden State wins if Iguodala returns promptly and makes LeBron exert more energy than he likes. Golden State should be forcing LeBron to work on both ends diligently, and with Golden State’s athleticism and length, they clamp down on Cleveland’s supporting cast. Cleveland needs either Love or Thompson to play relevant minutes at the center even if they decide LeBron is best at the center, so how well Golden State does with either of them on the floor is very important. With Thompson, your ability to defend is much better, but they have to rebound. With Love, they have to find a way to attack him if he switches onto Durant or Curry. Golden State should score on isolation a bit better than Cleveland if they want to neutralize the possession game. Their supporting cast should also shoot better from three than Cleveland’s; Cleveland struggles mightily, but outside of Curry, Thompson, and Durant, everyone else have shown to be just as incompetent. Beating Cleveland from three is another important key in all of this.
Cleveland Cavaliers in six.
Cleveland’s season has been a roller coaster starting in last year’s offseason. It began with the trade of Irving, players came back out-of-shape, Lue couldn’t find a decent rotation, LeBron played the most uninspired defense any superstar has yet to display, and Isaiah Thomas not fitting in the way everyone imagined. Cleveland’s central problem was its near bottom-ranked defensive efficiency which historically points to being nowhere near a contender… yet here they are thanks to LeBron once again.
This team looked worse and worse as the months went by including the playoffs, LeBron always seems to spit in the analytics and win. Every year, LeBron seems to push the boundaries of how important and how great a player has to be for their team.
Golden State’s path to the Finals is also interesting. They’ve coasted the regular season which isn’t that surprising to most people, but their injuries somewhat hid how truly great they were for a time when the seasoning was rounding out; it’d just been that long since we’ve seen this team truly dialed in. Nobody really believed this team even had a chance of losing until the Houston series. Even though Houston did not win the series, I feel it will play a huge part in Golden State’s chances of winning the Finals.
Houston basically has laid out a blueprint for how to beat this team to Cleveland: force them to play more isolations and mid-range than they’d like, switch everything, take advantage of their inexperienced centers, and make it a grind-it-out style type of game. Not only did Houston lay the blueprint, but it forced them to play more playoff games than last year. Last year, they had ample rest and great turnarounds. This year? Golden State will play Game 1 of the Finals two days after a game seven. A game seven that was every other day since the third game. This team will likely still be tired, and that plays more in the favor of Cleveland than it ever would for Golden State.
Now, after this game, there will be more rest between games than the conference finals series, but I still feel like that would favor LeBron more than Golden State because his stamina means a lot more to Cleveland than the stamina of Golden State’s all-stars. Overall, they have a major advantage in Game 1, and winning Game 1 would significantly increase their chances of winning the series.
So, I’m going to lay out how I feel the best way to look at this series for the fourth consecutive time. The basic premise will be… how close Cleveland can simulate Houston’s schemes and if Golden State can somehow get LeBron to exert more energy.
This series is going to be closer than most people think; Vegas has awarded the most lopsided odds to Golden State since 2002. While it’s understandable as to why they’re this big of a favorite, there’s a serious case for Cleveland to win this I feel many people aren’t considering.
The status of Iguodala is crucial. Iguodala is what allows Golden State to play their deadliest, most battle-tested line-up. The effect of his absence is more felt like a domino effect… it means more minutes for Bell, Looney, Young, etc. It also creates a shorter rotation which is more likely to set in fatigue for Golden State’s all-stars; we’ve already seen this effect with Draymond Green. Iguodala is also Golden State’s best answer for LeBron throughout most of the game since he was the primary defender throughout most of last year’s Finals (plus-79 with him on the floor, minus-49 when off. In addition to this, LeBron shot 49% with Iguodala on the floor versus 55% when off). I understand Durant also wasn’t a bad defender against LeBron last year, but this year’s Durant feels slightly different. He’s playing more games, shooting less efficiently, and getting beat on the glass like hell. If that’s the only feasible option you have to throw at against LeBron, there’s no way I can confidently say Golden State shouldn’t worry about how the forward match-up plays out.
Also, if people remember how Cleveland took advantage of Golden State outside of Curry switches in 2016, they also took advantage of Ezeli switches on LeBron. How much you want to bet Lue isn’t licking his chops at the aspect of Looney, Bell, or worse, West and Pachulia being switched out on LeBron? Cleveland’s overall offensive attack is much more potent with Iguodala missing, so the more games he misses (especially Game 1) the better chance Cleveland has scoring against Golden State.
With the increase in minutes of guys like Looney, Bell, Young, etc, LeBron (and Love if he plays) get more opportunities to rest on defense and roam as help defenders. I mean, you could do that with Iguodala to a certain extent, but he was at least a threat to drive and shoot. Not to mention, if Love is healthy, Looney/Bell can’t possibly be ready to play up to the level of an all-star who’s had multiple appearances in the Finals (Love).
On the flipside, Golden State will likely be the best team to force Cleveland’s secondary scorers to struggle. The way they played Holiday back in round 2 still has relevance. Hill and Clarkson will need to contribute especially if Love is absent. We’ve never actually seen Hill on Curry ever in the playoffs; I honestly feel like Hill would be a fantastic defender against Golden State. He’s a lot like Paul in which he has the smarts, and the bonus of having more size and length to still challenge guys like Thompson and Durant when switched onto. This is why I feel Cleveland can somewhat emulate the switching strategy Houston did to draw out more time from the shot clock. But offensively, someone on Cleveland has to make something happen. Irving was a huge plus-factor in the past two years, but LeBron still somehow managed to get six games out of the 2014 team.
Tristan Thompson is an interesting guy. Golden State got killed on the class in the latter half of the conference finals, and if you get killed by a guy of Capela’s size, one has to think how much of a factor Tristan Thompson will be. Cleveland can’t expect to win without him playing at least 30+ minutes. It increases their chances of mucking the game up and drawing out possessions. This is a style Cleveland played that worked in both 2015.
On the flipside, Golden State’s has a significant talent advantage going into this series. They could still win even if Cleveland minimized possessions. So, what if Iguodala is only missing one game? Then what? Cleveland still doesn’t have too many options with a healthy Iguodala. LeBron at center would be your best bet and could prove effective given that Draymond has played uncharacteristically bad in the last series in shooting; it gives LeBron another roam and rest option. The only problem with that is the other four players versus Cleveland’s other four players and it’d be taxing on a guy who’s already taxed. If they can rotate off Green, blitz Curry, and try to get Durant to isolate, that’d be their best option against the Hampton Five
More good news for Golden State: Cleveland’s defense isn’t as effective at switching overall in comparison to Houston. I mean, I’m sure they’ll run it, but the only potential plus defenders are Hill and Hood. Also, Houston was a team that switched all year. They rotate with a purpose and identity; switching isn’t Cleveland’s identity, so naturally, it’s not going to run like a well-oiled machine. This team is very mistake prone, and that just might be enough to do them in defensively.
This might have been more than enough to talk about in what is essentially a four consecutive match-up but what I find most interesting is that no matter how many times these teams face each other, you learn something new about the nuances of what actually goes in a series such as coaching, player rhythm/fatigue, and the effects of just missing one to three previous players. This series will be very interesting in seeing who or what are the difference makers in winning games between titans.
Who do I favor …? I feel there are strong arguments for both teams. Cleveland’s overall analytics are still troublesome. There’s a reason why this is the most lopsided finals odds-wise. They improved their defense but not by much, their three-point shooting is unreliable, and LeBron is worn out.
On the other hand, Golden State is fatigued too, and it really showed in Game 7 on the glass. Houston laid out a clear blueprint for Cleveland, and Draymond, Looney, and Bell just don’t seem okay right now; call it a gut thing.
Cleveland has a lot of ways it can go about this. They can go the pound-it-to-LeBron and Thompson carries the glass way (2015 without Irving and Love), they can go in a defense/offense balanced approach with a LeBron/Green/Love frontline, they can go all physical and bully ball their way with LeBron/Love/Thompson, or do what they tried last year with LeBron at center and have four wing players.
Whatever it is, they've had plenty of film to watch, plenty of experience playing this team at high stakes, and plenty of experimentation throughout the playoffs. The faster Lue finds a crack, the better.
I honestly feel like Cleveland’s approach to this series after four years and seeing vulnerable aspects of Golden State significantly improves their chances. I’m also unsure of Iguodala’s status and effectiveness; using analytics clearly does not phase LeBron teams this year, but that’s really the only convincing metric I can use for Golden State at this point: analytics.
Outside of analytics. Cleveland has the tools to me to win. They’re nowhere near the favorites, and they need a lot of things to go right, but they have the tools. They could have the mismatches, they could have the rebounding, and they likely have the strategy. This series is near 50/50 to me, but I’m going to predict Cleveland simply because Golden State feels vulnerably fatigued to any ounce of slowdown Cleveland could cause, and that that would be enough to always have Cleveland within striking distance.
Cleveland wins if Lue finds a way to place LeBron where he still has energy and can contribute in a way good way. That might be playing center and roaming off Green or taking advantage of Iguodala’s absence and attacking in spots where there’s mismatches or it might be finding use in a Love/Thompson line-up and just having him switch off of the least threatening players on defense. Jeff Green, Hill, Hood, Nance, and Thompson play a switching defense that’s up to par and forces Golden State in isolations. Durant might have learned from his losses against Houston, but the fact remains that Golden State’s offense is better when the ball is in Curry’s hands as opposed to Durant’s. Tristan Thompson’s and perhaps even Nance’s ability to bully and rebound in the paint would significantly help Cleveland’s chance in slowing the game down to a halt. I’m surprised I haven’t mentioned Cleveland attacking Curry through LeBron, but that’s in every Golden State and Cleveland series, isn’t it?
Golden State wins if Iguodala returns promptly and makes LeBron exert more energy than he likes. Golden State should be forcing LeBron to work on both ends diligently, and with Golden State’s athleticism and length, they clamp down on Cleveland’s supporting cast. Cleveland needs either Love or Thompson to play relevant minutes at the center even if they decide LeBron is best at the center, so how well Golden State does with either of them on the floor is very important. With Thompson, your ability to defend is much better, but they have to rebound. With Love, they have to find a way to attack him if he switches onto Durant or Curry. Golden State should score on isolation a bit better than Cleveland if they want to neutralize the possession game. Their supporting cast should also shoot better from three than Cleveland’s; Cleveland struggles mightily, but outside of Curry, Thompson, and Durant, everyone else have shown to be just as incompetent. Beating Cleveland from three is another important key in all of this.
Cleveland Cavaliers in six.
i'll die of laughter if the cavs lose because of #justjrthings
Edit: dead
He gone.
Edit: dead
He gone.
Last edited:
Sick to my stomach. I don’t care about the cavs. I hate the current warriors. But my fucking god dude. Im so irritated right now and feel so bad for lebron. Sure he made this team but come the fuck on.
This old Lebron is going above and beyond his limits for this shithole organization and roster..and he’s not getting any breaks.
Hill and JR in the matter of seconds fucking him over.
Just save your energy. Fuck Ohio.
This old Lebron is going above and beyond his limits for this shithole organization and roster..and he’s not getting any breaks.
Hill and JR in the matter of seconds fucking him over.
Just save your energy. Fuck Ohio.
Fixed that for ya
B R A I N L I C K E R
Banned deucer.
I didn't think the fans at Oracle were that savage. Giving J.R. a standing ovation during the lineup intro and chanting mvp when he shot free throws lmao
I still can't comprehend that rainbow 3 at the shot clock buzzer by Curry. Sheesh.....
- Status