Official Smogon Tournament XII - Finals [no winner]

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I thought any form of cheating was grounds for disqualification, just like any other tournament ever. If Smogon's official tournament policy doesn't see it that way then I'm in the wrong but LOL.
Posting to agree with this wholeheartedly honestly you guys need to sort this out this tournament is such a joke fuck that half of these "official" tournaments have just gone to shit and I know I'm a nobody on these forums but this behavior and the actions in response are very discouraging for players wanting to get into Smogon
just a question for the future, for clarification's sake

if I ghost my friend against a high profile opponent in an official tour with the hopes of eliminating him early, and I go on to win the tournament, if I'm caught ghosting my friend after the tournament concludes, will I get to keep my trophy?

e: to clarify I don't think that's what happened here but it is an important question to ask. I think njnp is fine to keep his trophy in this isolated case but I also fear the precedent it sets with respect to trading 6 month tour bans for permanent individual trophies
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I'm not sure what the current rules say (if anything at all) but I only see positives in taking away trophies for cheating in any given tournament at all. If you mess with the legitimacy of a tour then you don't deserve to be declared a winner of it. Additionally, this only increases the risk in the risk vs reward decision making each user faces when he/she decides whether or not to ghost. The more we make users see it as a risk and not a potential reward then the less ghosting there will be.

e: I'm also totally in favor of taking away trophies as a big "FUCK YOU" for delegitimizing more tournaments, because seriously the amount of ghosting incidents in 2016 alone is appalling.
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I agree with Stathakis. If WQ was to play say, a random instead of njnp, he might play differently / prepare much less. So if the person njnp ghosted were to lose, the situation is exactly the same as it is now, but if he were to win, then njnp has gained an advantage in the tournament, by cheating. Therefore, the difference between him keeping his trophy is whether they won or not. If the random player were to win instead, and later on njnp plays him instead of WQ, he has an obvious advantage.

There shouldn't be any kind of difference in punishment depending on whether ghostees here won or not. Not only does it compromise the integrity of the tournament, but the action itself could have resulted in very significant differences to njnp's OST run, so while this didn't happen here, the action itself can be considered cheating that could directly give njnp an advantage.

Keeping the trophy seems a rather suspect decision.


Banned deucer.
What exactly is ghosting and what is not?

I don't know what was specifically written in logs but if Matty was present in a chat where ppl were discussing the game and there's no communication, is it still ghosting.

Like what if someone playing on smogtours looked at the chat where people openly discuss and then he sees someone type out a certain situation that he didn't think about. Obviously this can't be ghosting, but is this situation not the same? Group of dudes discussing with each other when the player has access to this discussion.
Morally, I feel like they should strip him of his trophy because of someone having a unfair advantage over another player in this tour and that is just unacceptable. 2 heads are always greater than one and hearing someone elses opinion on what to do is something that creates a unfair advantage, especially if it is something you can not easily control. The teams and plays you make (to a degree) are things you can control, and your opponents plays is something you can't easily control or imitate, especially if they could get opinions and help from different mindsets.

I feel like holding grudges is not how we should approach this however, and i feel like the TDs gave them a punishment they deserve.


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Are we really setting a precedent that any form of cheating in a tournament isn't grounds for disqualification from that tournament, even if you didn't benefit from the cheating? Hello? I have literally never heard of a tournament where it wasn't reasonable to DQ someone for helping someone else cheat. I get that we don't want another recreation and we don't want a second big tournament with no winner right after slam because it looks bad, but this looks even worse, and sets a horrible precedent. There's no way NJNP should get any sort of prize and I can't believe the TDs didn't come to that conclusion?


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Personally I don't care about the pixels. If there's no evidence that njnp himself received any illegitimate help in his own games, then whatever let him keep his trophy. And I understand the desire to not have two official tours in the same year have no winner (because there's no way they'd do another bracket recreate of this lmao).

But a $100 prize? Bitch please. Prize money should be contingent on good standing (ie not being ICBB) on Smogon period.


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I think there's a very simple explanation as to why njnp still has his trophy.

He simply gave Isa 50$ from his cash prize to keep it. Perhaps all 100$, but we can't be too sure.

You guys are overcomplicating this whole deal.
Let's say I join OST next season with 5 accounts, by taking a lot of care by using proxies so I don't get caught, or maybe by asking some friends to sign up and then just playing for them. If I get caught after winning, should I be allowed to keep my trophy?

In most 'individual' sports, when a player has got caught cheating, even if the evidence was found after the end of the tournament, he's stripped of his trophy/medal (see cyclism or athletics). Why isn't it the same in njnp's case? Maybe because this was a team tournament?
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